Name that Flying Machine

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/142x108/arsenal_1301_03ee6c3fd4c6f7783b0355d97a395d0b9cadfc39.png
No doubt the usual suspects will deal with this in short order!

[chevvron]

Balzac!!!!

[Asturias56]

I think the record is still 8 minutes Chevvron

[meleagertoo]

I'm not sure if chevvron's ejaculation was supplied as an answer but if so I reply 'balzac to you too' and add that the record still stands.

Anyone else?

[Akrotiri bad boy]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/ac_1_1c3228032497f29fce6e0548ed02a8b910cd4d54.jpg
Any ideas about these two would be gratefully received

[Noyade]

Any ideas about these two would be gratefully received

The foreground machine looks (on my phone) like a Westland Widgeon IIIA.

[treadigraph]

Good answer and one behind is a Beech 18 or something doing a great impression.

[Noyade]

Beech 18 .

Yes, the cockpit framing does look very Beech 18.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x340/scan1254_632cc2fab541131ea44f3d985e056bff54a21d10.jpg

[Noyade]

Anyone else?

I was originally thinking the Yak-1000 - but the delta is clipped and it never flew?


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/358x201/1000_61afe69c42418fab31f3d2cb1c39082ed1b33c72.png


But more likely a French glider?


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x412/scan1253_541274e743b15e9cd00a82fb3677bd923b639e31.jpg

[Akrotiri bad boy]

Thanks for the replies. I thought the aircraft in the background might be a Beech 18 but it's nose looked a little too rakish. As for the Westland Widgeon, I thought that was a Grumman Goose type amphibian :O

[meleagertoo]

Noyade has the weight; Arsenal 1301 unpowered research craft.

[Noyade]

Thanks Mel!
OPEN HOUSE.

[BEagle]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/457x159/quiz_7d5d69fe83f979a8719f7afb47860e426ad5eaec.jpg
Should be fairly easy!

[Asturias56]

Hughes XF-11?

[BEagle]

Not the XF-11. Which had a much longer nose as well as radial engines.....

[Noyade]

Short Sturgeon TT Mk 3?

[oxenos]

Sturgeon S.1

[BEagle]

Short Sturgeon S1 it was indeed, oxenos!

You have control!

[washoutt]

BEagle, doe you have the full picture of this remarkable aircraft? Thanks.

[sycamore]

If you google `Short Sturgeon`,you should get several sites with various pictures...

[oxenos]

Short Sturgeon S1 it was indeed, oxenos!

You have control!
​​​​​​​Thank you. OH.

[oxenos]

Try http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/other/sturgeon/sturgeon-9.jpg

[India Four Two]

Here are two views:


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1782x777/sturg2_688_4199657724_copy_f289c70ffc0399d349839f26d61ba82e4 b32b063.jpeg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1050x703/sturgeon_2_3147187809_copy_16c2f128bceb50867e0c80aa048fb939b fca1614.jpeg

[chevvron]

The SB3 variant has to be the ugliest aircraft built by Shorts.

[Noyade]

Here are two views:

And a three-view...


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/650x956/scan1256_4dcbf58944eb7a26ce5212a00ae16c39951a118a.jpg

[Tarq57]

The SB3 variant has to be the ugliest aircraft built by Shorts.
Does that include the venerable skyvan?

[India Four Two]

Does that include the venerable skyvan?

Yes, in spades!


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/452x201/short_sturgeon_sb_3_1_3c24c57e938e5019575a3a7cb07619565e7c4b 3d.jpg


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x420/sb3_6_d8992d6e6232f3ead877c543c4a91f4214e8c153.jpg

The penultimate and last Sturgeons were rebuilt in 1949 as prototypes for the S.B.3, a proposed anti-submarine aircraft to M.6/49, powered by two Armstrong Siddeley Mamba AS Ma3 turboprops of 1,147 shaft horsepower (855 kW) driving two four-bladed propellers. The engine exhausts were directed downwards instead of to the rear. Another major modification was the grafting on of a gigantic bulbous nose that housed two radar operators in stations forward of the engines and the radar itself, below. Acute problems arising from the modifications led to the demise of the project, namely, "the efflux from the Mamba turboprops seriously destabilized the aircraft at some power settings and destroyed the good handling characteristics. It proved impossible to trim for safe flight on one engine which was a necessity for long endurance on anti-submarine patrols.

[washoutt]

Sycamore, sorry for not being clear. I know of Google of course, bur what I meant was a full picture of this cropped one. Google has all sorts of pictures of the sturgeon, but not this particular one. If BEagle has the uncropped version, I would be gratefull.

[oxenos]

Sycamore, sorry for not being clear. I know of Google of course, bur what I meant was a full picture of this cropped one. Google has all sorts of pictures of the sturgeon, but not this particular one. If BEagle has the uncropped version, I would be gratefull.
​​​​​​​Washoutt, see my post 3772

[meleagertoo]

They should have called that thing the Shorts Dugong!

[meleagertoo]

Open house is it?
Right - cogitate on this little gem...
And no,despite appearances it's not a homebuilt!
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/320x139/pesawat_nu_200_si_kumbang_91909575325d50b49f965fe99de3248e55 d3cea5.png

[Noyade]

I believe it's the Indonesian Sikumbang (Bee).


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x441/scan1257_29ef7f84284747c1d8903256809cf3e18a29adbf.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x346/nu_200_si_kumbang_cropped__8fb12deb11ae1b852b8034208f0351af3 ea5b1a4.jpg

[Asturias56]

if you right click on the challenge photo I think you'll find you are correct. :\

[meleagertoo]

Wow! You have to carefully plough through pages of incomprehensible code to find that!
I had no idea that file names could be found there.
I hope no-one's been looking at that - I've been labelling my challenge photos with aircraft names for ages.


Noyade has it. (and honestly found, I don't doubt)

[Asturias56]

I've done it myself - especially if you download the pic from some websites - I always check the file names now before up loading anything here

And anywhere else as well!!!!! :eek:

[Noyade]

Right click?

No - no "right clicking" or punching the image through the Google Image grinder (which I'm sure we're ALL aware of by now), but just flicking through old Jane's and Observers. I knew it was either from Indonesia or the Philippines, but I just never realised how old this was - first flight in 1954.
My extensive legal team informs me there is no way I can prove my innocence from this end, so until the internal inquiry is settled - I'll declare Open House.

Yours Sincerely,
Sherlock.

:ok:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x600/20230215_060810_df3e1ab397b09d1830864c845e91e74e3ce6c5a0.jpg

Interestingly, Jane's gives the full manufacturer as ANGKATAN UDARA REPUBLIK STAF TEKNIK, DEPOT PERAWATAN TEKNIK UDARA, SEKI PERTOJOBAAN.
William Green lists it under "N" - for NU-200. :)


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x525/20230215_042038_7cd8b2e9af6fd69f54779a67df1cb938031565ad.jpg

[India Four Two]

ANGKATAN UDARA REPUBLIK STAF TEKNIK, DEPOT PERAWATAN TEKNIK UDARA, SEKI PERTOJOBAAN

REPUBLIC AIR FORCE TECHNICAL STAFF, AIR ENGINEERING MAINTENANCE DEPOT, SEKI TRAINING

Asturias,

Any idea what SEKI means? I doubt it is "Statistik Ekonomi Keuangan Indonesia".

[Noyade]

Any idea what SEKI means?

Try "SEKSI" Simon.
Specsavers :)

[BEagle]

This shouldn't take very long to be identified:


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/239x145/quiz_c2e643fc100f2415a6ba5cd4f35454deccb7dca4.jpg

[chevvron]

Mitchell - Procter Kittiwake


Damn I started typing at 3 min but it became 5!
Just happened to look on the forum at the right time!

[Asturias56]

as has been pointed out since there are no rubber trees (other than at Kew) all "uk" aircraft have items not made here

[washoutt]

Sorry, I missed that post, thanks.

[treadigraph]

Try "SEKSI" Simon.
Specsavers :)
SEKSI it ain't...

[Asturias56]

I don't think any of the regulars would use Google Image - rather spoils the point - but you do have to download it to shove it into software that allows us to zoom in or sharpen the image

[Asturias56]

as has been pointed out since there are no rubber trees (other than at Kew) all "uk" aircraft have items not made here


I think I replied to the wrong thread................. :uhoh:

[BEagle]

chevvron, you are correct! It is indeed the Mitchell - Procter Kittiwake!

[chevvron]

Open House.

[Asturias56]

This is fairly easy I think

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/225x109/2023_02_13_152651_3c54d9b270dd1f9e0284ce3f84cdb3fb541c6865.j pg

[treadigraph]

Re the Kittiwake, seem to recall seeing the first one at Lasham in 1978 where it was probably assisting the resident tugs launching competitors in the UK Nationals. Never seen it anywhere else though it appears to have been quite active and now lives not all that far from me albeit without a current permit. Also recall the Nash Petrel development at Farnborough.

[chevvron]

DH 108 'Swallow'?

[chevvron]

Also recall the Nash Petrel development at Farnborough.
Well I was there every day but I don't remember it! Did it fly in the display? I never kept my display programmes unfortunately even though I wrote them.

[treadigraph]

Would have been about 1980. Don't recall if it flew.

[Asturias56]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/144x177/2023_02_13_152701_07d35acd2a0298152283742f3e712084d3b380c4.j pg
DH 108 'Swallow'?


No - but reasonably close!

[chevvron]

'Reasonably close' as in Boulton and Paul P111?

[Asturias56]

I can't comment right now ............................

[chevvron]

I can't comment right now ............................
I took 'reasonably close' to mean similar in configuration ie tailess but with a fin and rudder; looked at the AW52 but those both had tandem seating, then I found a picture showing the distinctive shape of the nosewheel door like the one you posted.

[Asturias56]

twiddling thumbs until 13:04...........

[Asturias56]

Chevvron has it - the Boulton Paul P111 - came ibn various shapes as they modded it over the years

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/288x175/retertertr_4ebe4d98d1022fafbac506c66160afb8c87e4cc8.jpg

[meleagertoo]

May I assume OH to revive the thread?
Doubtless this ghastly mistake won't last minutes (it doesn't deserve to) but what the hey?

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/85x66/screenshot_2023_03_11_at_20_13_07_421fcebdf54866a51b941c76b8 a93a13141e3c0d.png

[chevvron]

Dragon Rapide.

[CoodaShooda]

Messerschmitt ME410?

[meleagertoo]

No and no.
Surely no-one regards either of those a "ghastly mistake"?
Racy lines though, isn't it?

[chevvron]

GAL Monospar then?

[meleagertoo]

Not a monospar though the resemblance is certainly there.
Oddly enough it must have had spar problems, it suffered from wings that flexed...

[chevvron]

Meteor T7?

[meleagertoo]

Not a meatbox.

[Asturias56]

looks like tail dragger from the angle of the cockpit line

[meleagertoo]

Certainly a tail-dragger.

[Herod]

Supermarine Attacker

[meleagertoo]

Supermarine Attacker
Er - but the Attacker was a bubble-canopy jet!

Chevvron, please?

[chevvron]

Don't go looking at me; I could never land a taildragger!
Hmm; looks racy; suffered from wings which flexed:
rotary wings?

[Asturias56]

Is it French?

[chevvron]

Hurel Dubois HD 31 or 32.?

[meleagertoo]

Not rotary, et pas Français. They built 60+
It was a failure because of many design flaws, only one of which was wings that tended to twist when they shouldn't.
The racy comment was not just my appreciation of the glazing style, it was the fastest of its contemporaries for a while.
I'm amazed it has lasted this long as the family resemblence is, to me, quite obvious.

[ea200]

Looks as bit like a Monospar to me., Which model is a puzzle but I'll guess at the ST-4 although they certainly didn't build 60 of those.

[treadigraph]

DH-86 Express?

[meleagertoo]

Treadi gets it - one of DeHavilland's few lemons. A misguided attempt to expand on the Rapide theme to make a 4 engined airliner.
Oh! Chevvron, you were so close with your Rapide. The canopy is almost but not quite identical and to me just screams DeHavilland.

[treadigraph]

Sad that the last survivor was damaged and abandoned in Spain in the '50s/'60s...

I'm a bit stuck for a new challenge - Open House...

[Noyade]

Saw this on a movie a few weeks ago...


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x561/20230314_134521_9524e61ba2b3554e12d14cc269f63e7a927f1e55.jpg

[Noyade]

Two more shots.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x591/clipboard_4cdbb95ab247b351f42d1680728ad592d989acbd.jpg


The 'fictional' aircraft had to be able to survive a 9G dive before the USAAF would procure it.
Twas scary...

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x351/20230315_141425_f20118073a027f0b0851929599d03d466947c670.jpg

But mission accomplished. The designer was vindicated, the engineer got the girl, the USAAF got the plane and everybody was happy - The End.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x364/20230315_141521_ec7d7e5a5d7bfcea0a02bb9e2a8bb4b6aa1ff82d.jpg

[chevvron]

Treadi gets it - one of DeHavilland's few lemons. A misguided attempt to expand on the Rapide theme to make a 4 engined airliner.
Oh! Chevvron, you were so close with your Rapide. The canopy is almost but not quite identical and to me just screams DeHavilland.
I looked at the DH Express and decided the canopy was too wide!!
Silly me.

[sycamore]

The `Express` was originally designed as a single -pilot aircraft,but `QANTAS` insisted on 2-pilot operations ,so DH had to widen the cockpit and nose to accomodate them....

[EXDAC]

Wow! You have to carefully plough through pages of incomprehensible code to find that!

Incomprehensible code? Simply right click, select save as, and read the default file name!

[meleagertoo]

Incomprehensible code? Simply right click, select save as, and read the default file name!
That's not knowlege I'd readily admit to having!
But thanks, a useful tip (for elsewhere!)

[Asturias56]

another useful tip when a colleague sends you a word document is to "show changes"

A wise man or woman accepts all the changes when they are finished and save the final document under a slightly different file name. It's amazing what people write about you and your opinions and then delete..................

[Noyade]

The pilot screaming above is actor Richard Arlen.
Quite the filmography...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Arlen

He appears in the mystery machine above and another rare aircraft - both seen in the same film.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x336/20230314_135040_d2617e3c1340ffab85a7b4f8ff9cbf80e6032055.jpg

[ea200]

From your very generous clue: Player CT-6A of which I cannot find a picture but it's not the other one in the film for which a picture is available.

I take no credit for this so Open House if correct.

[Noyade]

Player CT-6A

Nicely found. :ok: NX19994.
From the movie Power Dive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Dive).
Rare Americans can usually be found and illustrated @ aerofiles.com.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x233/greenleaf_c72270d5ad13e2efafc309b0cc5b13371d4db13c.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/587x393/capture_c1b47df3d03ca46b88516a5273a0962589e6d74b.png
The other rare machine seen in the movie is the Phillips 1-B Aeroneer NX16075.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x233/20230314_135229_1__243e6bdd31545ccfaaa6a3ded4a54164ef870dc8. jpg

ea200 has declared Open House.

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/185x165/screenshot_2023_03_16_at_11_49_04_7262d47c2bf0df25c7c1518e94 dff00f9b2d8fbc.png

[Noyade]

A Piece of Pander?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x638/scan1274_4c3d3e3d257cd3db781d07a226196abb5dc0925a.jpg

Open House should it be the Pander S.4 Postjager.

[meleagertoo]

Pffff!
Shoulda guessed!
We mere mortals are simply outclassed here, aren't we?
Over to Noyade...;)

[Noyade]

Open House should it be the Pander S.4 Postjager.

Thanks Mel - but I'll stick with the Open House - for the time being. :ok:

[Planemike]

Treadi gets it - one of DeHavilland's few lemons. A misguided attempt to expand on the Rapide theme to make a 4 engined airliner.
Oh! Chevvron, you were so close with your Rapide. The canopy is almost but not quite identical and to me just screams DeHavilland.
The deH 86 Express came before the deH 89 Rapide. The the Rapide is in fact a "scaled down" 86.....

[meleagertoo]

I suppose if you're one of the rare 'purists' who make a distinction between Dragon and Dragon Rapide you may well be right. To most people they're the same thing in all but name.

[chevvron]

I suppose if you're one of the rare 'purists' who make a distinction between Dragon and Dragon Rapide you may well be right. To most people they're the same thing in all but name.
On the contrary, the Dragon had a totally different wing planform when compared to the 'Rapide' version.

[Planemike]

On the contrary, the Dragon had a totally different wing planform when compared to the 'Rapide' version.
I maybe labouring a point here but there are a whole host of differences between the deH 84 Dragon and the deH 89 Dragon Rapide. In addition to the wing planform mentioned by chevvron, the 84 was powered by two four cylinder 130HP Gipsy I engines whereas the 89 was powered by two six cylinder 200HP Gipsy Six engines. The undercarriage layout was also considerably different. The wheels of the 84 were "spatted" whereas those of the 89 were covered by a "trouser" assembly which was integral with the engine cowlings.
In many ways the two aircraft were aimed at the same market. The deH 89 Dragon Rapide (originally to be known as the Dragon Six) was a considerably developed, improved version of the deH84 Dragon. The changes resulted in an aeroplane with a much enhanced performance.
Oh BTW, I do not think you need to be a ""rare purist"" to spot the differences between the two distinct types....!!!

[Noyade]

No de Havilland issues with this one. :)


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x374/no_answer_here_e7e8b79db243e6113c117cd31b1b7fb517f94fc5.jpg

[India Four Two]

European 1930s?

[Asturias56]

the scale must be in metres so not UK or N american

[Noyade]

Yes, European - but 1940s.

[Noyade]

Once in the air, the landing gear was jettisoned.

[Asturias56]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/ux66zi/nakajima_ki115_a_purposebuilt_singleengine/

nakajima hi115 Kamikaze

Searching Aircraft 1940's jetonisable undercarriage brought up more than I'd thought - The Arado, the Me 163, the Douglas Skystreak etc etc

[meleagertoo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/ux66zi/nakajima_ki115_a_purposebuilt_singleengine/

nakajima hi115 Kamikaze


That's not very European!

[Asturias56]

Your right! But it may have been built in Sunderland......................

[meleagertoo]

Really? Doesn't anyone know?

[Noyade]

nakajima hi115 Kamikaze

No kamikazes involved - in fact, once operational altitude was reached - the pilot bailed out.
Stick to Europe.

Douglas Skystreak etc etc

Jettison-able undercart on the Skystreak?

Looks like you know it Mel? Name it and it's all yours. :)

[sycamore]

Target `drone` for AA-A/G training...?

[meleagertoo]

Looks like you know it Mel? Name it and it's all yours. :)
Not a clue, I was referring in surprise to the possibility that it was built in Sunderland!

[Noyade]

Target `drone` for AA-A/G training...?

Author Bill Gunston calls it a "Controllable Bomb", others a radio-controlled flying bomb.
Quite a well known designer of aircraft post WW2.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x328/scan1292_58b6528377c417617a1d07eaea346a3b288bb3e5.jpg

[BEagle]

Aeronautica Lombarda AR (Assalto Radioguidato) flying bomb. After getting the thing airborne and releasing the undercarriage, it was intended to be abandoned by il pilota coraggioso before radio controlled flight to the target.

Programme ended after the Italian surrender in 1943.

[Noyade]

Well found BEagle!
Take the lead.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x800/scan1293_9328b836004a6ac7630ef7351100102c9b275f7e.jpg

[BEagle]

Thanks!

Fairly easy one now:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/424x317/q2_lohdohd_9e41409b19b5a6bba9d3ec5a001500f3bb5fc1ee.jpg

[Asturias56]

Italian?

[BEagle]

No.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

[India Four Two]

West side of the pond?

[BEagle]

No.

....................................................

[chevvron]

Ried &Sigrist Desford.

[meleagertoo]

Ried &Sigrist Desford.
You weren't a navigator, were you?

[BEagle]

Not a Desford.

[chevvron]

I realise that; wrong country but the canopy and single piece windscreen was definitely similar.

[dash7fan]

Heinkel He 100 ?

[BEagle]

dash7fan, you have control!

Photo showed Hans Dieterle in the cockpit of He 100 V8 after his 403KIAS low level record flight on 30th March 1939.

[dash7fan]

Thanks, open house pls

[BEagle]

This shouldn't take too long:


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/291x252/qqqqqqqqq_24cd2edbd8379e09e2348c4593bb73d3b5d51ca9.jpg

Exact type only please!!

[chevvron]

Supermarine Spiteful MkXIV?

[BEagle]

No.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[chevvron]

Seafang F Mk 31

[BEagle]

No.

..............................................

[treadigraph]

Looks like a Hawker Fury - Napier Sabre?

[BEagle]

No.

............................

[treadigraph]

Ah, Hawker Tempest I... ?

[sycamore]

Typhoon II/Tempest I HM599,Sabre IV,extended radiator ducting on wing l/edge,and revised front cowling.

OH if correct....

Beaten by Treadds..

[BEagle]

treadigraph, you have control!

It was indeed HM599, the sole example of the very clean prototype Tempest I.

The latter days of the Tempest V amused me. Being posted to fly the RAF's last and most powerful single piston engined fighter at RAF Sylt, a German holiday resort much frequented by naturists, was considered to be a 'bad boys posting'!!

[treadigraph]

I started off thinking Griffon Fury!

Try this one which popped up on Google...

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1487x1092/quiz_8bc1b2c69c8cadf13790eb60afb03389c86ad21e.jpg

[sycamore]

Good articles in `Aeroplane` about what ` might have been`.....

[meleagertoo]

Option Air Reno Acapella, a zombie-child mutation made from bits of Bede BD5s, of all things.
If I was going to design an aeroplane I think I'd have started somewhere else!
Still, it looks pretty and was evidently fast.

[treadigraph]

Out on a pub crawl in London, so before I get dragged onto the next establishment and potential oblivion, I'll declare Meleagertoo correct!

[meleagertoo]

Here's an easy one


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/154x270/screenshot_2023_03_28_at_18_55_21_98543ba801242cc90827b3e376 2b2bd93fe4e0db.png

[sycamore]

At a guess...French...?

[Noyade]

Here's an easy one

Clever cropping of the Bellanca tri-motor?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x486/scan1295_90c69534dceee8b77422ec1140d3c9ed9e0f16df.jpg

[BEagle]

Full image - spot the trouser legs!!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/291x173/bellanca_28_92_9c74c5a27a5cc5f506ed183c5e5036e4c1d23c16.jpg

Bellanca 28-92 indeed!

[dduxbury310]

A bit weird, having two completely different types of engines (although of generally similar configuration, inverted, in-line six cylinder, air cooled); must have been some reason for the designer to go down that route! Actually, I suspect the centre engine (Ranger), by its unusual, triangular-shaped air intake was an inverted V-12 (V-770), as used in a few aircraft, such as a single engine lightweight fighter (P-77?) and an infamous Curtiss 2-seater seaplane for US Navy, built in some hundreds.

[meleagertoo]

Once again Noyade pulls the rabbit out of the hat.

[Asturias56]

I have this vision of him sitting surrounded by a million volumes of aircraft pictures and he looks at our pathetic offerings, thinks, spins around and pulls the right picture out at once............... ;)

[meleagertoo]

It sometimes feels a bit like that! So many of these challenges are craft I've never even heard of before (as are almost all that I now choose) even after a professional aviation career as a 'bit of' an aviation nut.
Still, to we mere journeyman aviators the virtuoso is rightfully an object of some awe as he sits at his unrestricted universal aviation rolodex and just flicks up the right image...
Roger Bacon was right. Few of us are cut out to be T.A.P.s

Allright Mephisto, do your worst!

[Noyade]

Thanks Mel!

I have this vision of him sitting surrounded by a million volumes of aircraft pictures

As time marches on I do find I spend more and more time on the PC looking for these machines rather than looking through paper references. The computing power of my mobile phone alone would be greater than anything I have on bookshelves. I found the Bellanca on my phone in bed with a dog on my lap. In fact, for most of two years now I haven't been able to reach many bookshelves due to Achilles tendon reconstruction to both feet. :ouch:


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x294/no_bookshelves_f6ce2f35bc0c88158df444b133ef83edac94bcaf.jpg

But I'm more ambulant now and back at work, so I did reach for a book to scan this one.......:ok:


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/455x273/nothing_to_see_here_296f33b2633a4722a69ac6b8baa73ee3b7d3cdb0 .jpg

[Asturias56]

It sometimes feels a bit like that! So many of these challenges are craft I've never even heard of before (as are almost all that I now choose) even after a professional aviation career as a 'bit of' an aviation nut.
Still, to we mere journeyman aviators the virtuoso is rightfully an object of some awe as he sits at his unrestricted universal aviation rolodex and just flicks up the right image...
Roger Bacon was right. Few of us are cut out to be T.A.P.s

Allright Mephisto, do your worst!
Correct - a true TAP

[Asturias56]

lets guess - European?

[Noyade]

Not European.
I was trying a meleagertoo crop - of another tri-motor.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/631x400/scan1279_d969521d22cc808f92619b3e3c6ac8b06fd9b549.jpg

I will probably regret asking - but what sort of person is a T.A.P?

[sycamore]

Total Aviation Person..:D

[India Four Two]

Total Aviation Person..:D

A phrase coined by "Roger Bacon", purported writer of the "Straight and Level" page at the back of Flight International.

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/3870997-uncle-roger-hail-and-farewell

[Asturias56]

"Flight " has always run a really good quiz just before Christmas - one way to be a "TAP" is to get most of the answers right.

"Uncle" Roger Bacon was the (fictional) name of writer who wrote "Straight & Level" - the irreverent final page of each edition of Flight

Straight & Level still graces the monthly edition but IIRC they retired Uncle Roger when they went to a monthly edition.

[Asturias56]

the cockpit looks bit like a Fokker XX but its not

I think its the Ogden Osprey.......................
The Ogden Osprey was a three engine, high wing monoplane airliner which seated six. Designed in the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) and first flown in the spring of 1930 or earlier, six were built and some used commercially before Ogden Aeronautical ceased trading in the Great Depressio

[treadigraph]

Roger Bacon was (mostly) the late Mike Ramsden; one of our fellow PPRuNers, also very sadly late and greatly missed, was an erstwhile defence editor at Flight and seemed to share JMR's wonderful sense of humour so I suspect he may have shouldered some of the responsibilities of producing Straight and Level each week. Haven't read Flight in a very long time - not even surreptitiously in Smiths - so no idea if S&L and TAPs are still prevalent amidst its august pages...

[Noyade]

I think its the Ogden Osprey

It is indeed. Over to you A56. I'm not the only TAP here then. :ok:

[Asturias56]

I still subscribe and S&L is still there in the monthly print edition (TBH I find the web based stuff a turnoff) - there are occasional references to TAPs but the humour isn't quite so edgy

In the latest edition (march 23) they have a go at Megans claimed flight on ANZ from Mexico to the UK (?). problems with mobile phones at an Airbus event, retained domain names for dead airlines and the horror of seeing O'Leary having to host a Ryanair press event in a luxury London Hotel with canapes instead of the usual shack with coffee and boiled sweets. They also do "From the Archive - 1923. '48, '73 & '98"

[meleagertoo]

Surreptitiously reading Flight (or rather scanning the Jobs pages) in Smiths because you couldn't afford to buy it. That takes me back!

[Asturias56]

It is indeed. Over to you A56. I'm not the only TAP here then. :ok:

took forever..................

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/151x126/2023_03_21_143642_f224608535ef12a3d54c528a3991d387d21547d8.j pg

[treadigraph]

I bought Flight weekly for a while, then discovered Pilot circa 1983. But S&L drew me like a Siren's call, so a quick shufti each week was a must.

[meleagertoo]

Are we looking at a tailwheel?

[oncemorealoft]

Miles Marathon

[Asturias56]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/131x133/2023_03_21_143654_7b61468eff3cb4ed8ce77bc6e09a9c6050921a56.j pg
wait 24 hours......................

[Asturias56]

Oncemorealoft has it - the Miles/HP Marathon

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/299x168/fdsafasfd_8882be2472bc8632f47bbd934c511a5107c8720c.jpg

[oncemorealoft]

Thank you. Open House please.

[BEagle]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/419x336/xxxxxxx_0653f8307a570f498ae1048dd6bd15fea7b5dbee.jpg
Here you go!!

[chevvron]

Looks like the Martin -Baker MB5 but it can't be as that had contra rotating props.

[BEagle]

Correct - it isn't the MB5!

[Asturias56]

looks like a big engine but the cockpit is well forward - I have a nagging sense I've seen it before - back to the William Green books I think

[chevvron]

'cockpit is well forward' like as in Fairey Firefly?

[sycamore]

Possibly the Folland f108 testbed???

[meleagertoo]

It looks French or Italian to me. That clumsy air scoop below the cowling is very distinctive, as is what appears to be a nice clean bubble canopy.

[chevvron]

Delete 'Firefly' insert 'Battle'
First flown 31 May 1939 with a Napier Sabre 1 engine.

[meleagertoo]

Delete 'Firefly' insert 'Battle'
First flown 31 May 1939 with a Napier Sabre 1 engine.
Which prefectly explains the strange position of the exhaust and the almost symmetrical cowling lines...d'uh! oh!

[chevvron]

I have to admit that sycamore gave me the idea when I googled the Folland f108 and came up with something called 'oldmachinepress.com' which included the full picture of the Battle.

[BEagle]

chevvron, you are indeed correct. It was the Fairey Battle used as a Napier Sabre test bed.

Over to you!

[chevvron]

Open House.

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/168x170/screenshot_2023_04_03_at_13_48_20_9b1636b1f7fd83693dd949070a a8855651f58781.png

[sycamore]

Out of interest,anybody found a picture of the Folland F108 Test-bed a/c...?

#3927...AT-6 with Ranger engine...?

[meleagertoo]

Not an AT-6

[Asturias56]

Fields in the background look like NW Europe - possibly a river or the coast near the top of the pic?

[chevvron]

Out of interest,anybody found a picture of the Folland F108 Test-bed a/c...?

Several on google.

[sycamore]

Thanks chevv....

[meleagertoo]

Asturias, that scenery is cetainly not European.

[Noyade]

A quick morning thought would be the Bell XP-77?

[meleagertoo]

A quick morning thought indeed!
How does he do it?
All yours pal...

[Noyade]

Out of interest,anybody found a picture of the Folland F108 Test-bed a/c...?

Hey Sycamore.
Here's a couple I found - complete with a binder hole. :)


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/774x709/clipboard_501fa928abb1126f47afdaf9bd5be3044abb0e09.jpg

PS - What was the Avenger like to fly?

[Noyade]

Thanks Mel.


How does he do it?
.

Memory. :)


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/850x323/scan1280_2ac67551825ed85bb97e5aee37e91a757567d98a.jpg

[India Four Two]

A French aircraft?

[Noyade]

Not French...

[Noyade]

German.

[Asturias56]

I thought it was a hawker Duiker but the engine seems wrong - and of course its not German

Is this post WW1?

[Noyade]

Is this post WW1?

Yes, circa ​​​​1931.
Very famous designer.

[Expatrick]

Heinkel HE 46?

[Noyade]

Sorry for the late reply Expatrick - not from Heinkel.

[Asturias56]

Messerschmitt?

[Allan Lupton]

Focke-Wulf fw56 prototype?

[Noyade]

Focke Wulf, yes - but not the 56...

[Allan Lupton]

A47 then. . .

[teusje]

S39 maybe?

[Noyade]

Sorry lads - neither the A47 or S39.

You will find it here with my photo above...

Focke-Wulf (http://airwar.ru/firm/f.html#4)

[Noyade]

Easter Sunday reprieve - time to end this one and declare Open House.

The Focke-Wulf A40 (http://airwar.ru/enc/other1/fws40.html)


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x331/fws40_4_982752cdbaa13822ffee9fe86cadd6e8a221878c.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/300x542/scan1298_10cbe22db7226d57c415bcc5f302abecad591853.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x463/scan1299_d8839fcd828ae54e059f0b9c7a029b30823a46f7.jpg

[Asturias56]

not often one is never identified

Good challenge and we live and learn!

[BEagle]

Here you go....

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/372x336/tytytytytytty_81ae50ebc23286d1228e483a93adcd9507775dc9.jpg

[ea200]

Fisher P-75?

[BEagle]

ea200, absolutely correct - it is indeed the Fisher P-75 BEagle!

Rather a poor aircraft, intended to be a long range escort fighter. Heavy, unmanoeuvrable and unstable, it was soon canned in favour of the P-51 with additional fuel tanks.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_P-75_Eagle

ea200, you have control!!

[Asturias56]

8 minutes!!!! :eek: I can't type that fast.....................

[ea200]

Thanks BEagle. I came across P-75 when I was searching for the What Cockpit thread just a few days ago. As soon as I saw it I knew I had seen it before and a quick review of my search history did the job. I only logged on just after your post by chance.

Now for somethng a bit more recent:


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/245x242/aircraft0423b_17e28301b7a1f031c84fc88459cdfed98033f652.jpg

[Asturias56]

very swish!!

[BEagle]

Isn't it still just a concept aircraft?

[Asturias56]

I think so.............

[ea200]

Yes, after more investigation I can find no evidence that this was built/flown although it was planned for production. Good looking though it is, it does not qualify as a flying machine so I withdraw the challenge. For those that are interested, it was the Eagle Alpina amphibian. Must be more careful!

Open house.

[Asturias56]

allow 24 hours

[Asturias56]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/167x309/2023_04_12_082843_81694fa6b9825958b5d72fd7c5c8ebc0b8b5ad18.j pg

[chevvron]

De Havilland DH 4?

[India Four Two]

The propeller construction looks wrong for a DH 4 and rotating the wrong way?

[Asturias56]

No - its not Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh DH

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/236x147/2023_04_12_083005_caa5c9d9c884ef7c0a62e0d0223c1c47a62b47dc.j pg

[Noyade]

First image - Dornier Komet?
Second image - Dornier Merkur?

Addendum - Looks like the first is also a Merkur...

Dornier Komet ("Comet"), Merkur ("Mercury") / Luftwaffe Library / Forums - Axis and Allies Paintworks (http://axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?id=18604)


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/451x446/capture_3231a0845f444f06711459c0ec015135e1362839.png

[chevvron]

Now say that in Russian.

[Asturias56]

I'd rather hoped to mislead with the Aeroflot picture...................... :(

[Asturias56]

Yes it is the Dornier Komet/Mercur - hard to tell apart and several old pictures seem to be mislabelled as to which is which.

The Master has it again

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/156x228/2023_04_12_083130_81b67d2d716370bef37d2887d898d26cc8a126cb.j pg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x569/1200px_ad_astra_aero_dornier_merkur_ch171__f7f4c3cfada193207 561192d5fc4536746032461.jpg

[Noyade]

Thanks A56.

Yes it is the Dornier Komet/Mercur - hard to tell apart and several old pictures seem to be mislabelled as to which is which.

One source says if the ventral radiator is present = Merkur. If not = Komet III.

We seem to be showing a lotta engines in this thread as an aircraft challenge - so, not wanting to buck the trend....


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x652/scan1303_88bfef455c4f79b277a78e35908cb5e49a73c58c.jpg

[India Four Two]

I see a priest wearing a biretta on the left. Is this an Italian Job? :)

[Asturias56]

could be Malta

[chevvron]

Switzerland?

[Noyade]

I see a priest wearing a biretta on the left. Is this an Italian Job? :)

He could be Italian - the aircraft isn't. I'm thinking he was there at the christening to bless the machine, but ultimately its life was cursed. :ooh:
Not Malta.
Not Switzerland.

[Noyade]

Designed by a Russian from Kiev.

[Asturias56]

kalinin?

[SincoTC]

Designed by a Russian from Kiev.

I would have thought that was probably Igor Sikorsky.

[Noyade]

I would have thought that was probably Igor Sikorsky.

Indeed. :)

Trimotor...

[Noyade]

Indeed. :)

Trimotor...


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x517/scan1307_7905a3978acaf4da0b61e52fd08855cf16ded3de.jpg

[Asturias56]

The S-35?

The S-35 was designed as a twin-engined transport with a 1,000-mile (1,600-kilometre) range. During 1926 René Fonck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Fonck), a French First World War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World_War) fighter ace, was looking for a multi-engine aircraft to enter a competition to be the first to fly non-stop from New York to Paris. Raymond Orteig (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Orteig) offered a prize of $25,000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orteig_Prize). Fonck had Sikorsky redesign the aircraft with three engines.

The first transatlantic attempt was scheduled for the September 16 but was abandoned after the aircraft developed a fuel leak. The next available break in the weather was to be the 21 September and the aircraft was fueled during the previous night from 50 barrels of gasoline. When the aircraft was weighed it was found to be 4,000 pounds (1,800 kg) overweight. Fonck insisted on carrying a sofa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofa) and refrigerator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator) on the journey. Fonck and his co-pilot Lt Lawrence Curtin of the U.S. Navy were joined by a radio operator and a Sikorsky mechanic for the flight. In front of a large crowd at Roosevelt Field the aircraft gathered speed, the auxiliary landing gear broke away, the aircraft failed to get airborne and plunged down a steep slope at the end of the runway and burst into flames. The two pilots escaped injury but the radio operator Charles Clavier and mechanic Jacob Islamoff were killed. The aircraft, which had cost $80,000, was not insured

[Noyade]

And we got there - over to you. :)

[Asturias56]

well - it took a lot of info!

I'm out and about for the next 10 days so Open House

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/294x263/screenshot_2023_04_20_at_12_09_36_f31aa22f7d4e2a98c0a7633ce9 6232afc6c98f59.png

[Asturias56]

I was thinking of something in the '50's but that looks like bracing wires and a rather ancient wheel - pre-1930?

[sycamore]

Think it`s part of a radiator/oil cooler...?

[Asturias56]

looks like rockets or flechettes to me

[Noyade]

Ten pound bombs.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x216/scan1312_b84acddfbd8545fb8d901e13f5b8a178245fad9c.jpg

[meleagertoo]

Certainly pre 1930 as Noyade evidently knows.
British.

[Self loading bear]

Bristol TB 8

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x847/5359077f_98ba_4aa2_bc26_59c50621d762_a754d3728870369d2a60bb0 6ee31eb8e18022aab.jpeg

[meleagertoo]

SLB takes control.

[Self loading bear]

Thanks Mel!
Now this little contestant

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/701x441/959e2f1b_1fa3_4282_b55e_f20203c2e339_a50af4557d870dd4812038b 152e17e7962c3f30c.jpeg

[teusje]

Ricci R.6?

[Self loading bear]

Ricci R.6?

Absolutely!
Nice little airplane.
over to Teusje

[teusje]

Thank you Bear
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x312/teusje_5eb34549a09da8b481611fec5b8faa0e78ac638c.jpg

[Asturias56]

N American?

[teusje]

Yes, from the USA

[chevvron]

Looks like a Falco or SF260 but with gull wing doors rather than a sliding canopy.

[teusje]

It is similar in looks, but not related.
Though it's possible the designers where inspired by those aircraft.
It's first flight was about 1,5 year later than the SF.260.

[Noyade]

The Alon A-4. :)


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x765/scan1317_70c87beb8bdf123b45c6390ba1fe820d7c98d568.jpg