What Cockpit?

[Loose rivets]

Oh my goodness!!!!! That control grip. I bought one of those brand new in Lisle St with the intention of putting in my Jag which already had several mods - like pressing the gas down into the carpet kicked out the overdrive. There is no doubt, it's the exact one. 7/6, IIRC.




The cockpit mods are in a 172 https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/547101-what-cockpit-88.html#post10750300 operated by Col Carl Crane, and instrument flying pioneer. He lectured at eh USAF advanced instrument flying school - just telling the stories about the old days. They were jaw-dropping.

The brass cross was a patented device called 'The Nose Knows.' If you pinned the cross on a point on the runway, you'd arrive there.

The black box was a prototype blind landing system. As an invited tester, I did one blind landing after another over some weeks of early morning stints. Before San Antonio Tx became busy with the days traffic.


.

[Jhieminga]

Fokker S.14 Machtrainer, I’m guessing PH-XIV.

[Self loading bear]

I already expected The quickest answer from your corner!
Fokker S14

All yours

[Jhieminga]

Thanks!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49788913931_456a8ffd06_c.jpg
S14Machtrainer_PHXIV_02092019 by Jelle Hieminga, on Flickr

And a new challenge, apologies for the small size of this image.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/425x291/screenshot_180420_a932cd5d6c94135a1c0b8521a8049b56e29156f3.j pg

[MReyn24050]

Looking at those control columns begs the question is this a rotary machine?

[Jhieminga]

No, not a rotorcraft.

[Self loading bear]

Dashboard layout is a bit like Ryan SC-W but looks more modern.
Is it American?

[Jhieminga]

No, wrong side of the Atlantic.

[mcdhu]

Experimental aeroplane?

[Jhieminga]

No, not built for testing or as an experimental type.

[Self loading bear]

Is it a motor glider?
Perhaps Germany?

[Jhieminga]

No and no.

[Self loading bear]

I have looked at English trainers
and French I could not find a cockpit photo of the Sipa s 100.
so that is my last guess.
I think we (or am I the only one?) need some clues.

[Jhieminga]

You're pretty close if you're looking at English trainers. It's a jet-powered one.

[oncemorealoft]

Is it an early mark of Jet Provost? A T1?

[oncemorealoft]

Answering my own question: don’t think it’s the Jet Provost but possibly the Miles Student?

[Jhieminga]

oncemorealoft is the winner of a well deserved pat on the back. The Miles M.100 Student is correct.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x465/studentphoto_4d47f2fa32eade0521c43440f10e31af62beab0e.jpg

[oncemorealoft]

Thank you! To be honest, there aren’t many British jet trainers of that era it could be. Open House please as I’m unable to upload images arm.

[Self loading bear]

Answering my own question: don’t think it’s the Jet Provost but possibly the Miles Student?

Well deserved for OMA.
I did look at the Miles Student but could not find a cockpit photo.
And although not experimental only one prototype built.
Was that fully certified? Or flying in the experimental class?

[Jhieminga]

Seeing as it was sold on and operated as a private aircraft, I assumed that it was fully certified. I did have my doubts when I answered that question, so apologies if I mislead you there.
The fact that there are hardly any cockpit photos online made this an excellent subject ;)

[India Four Two]

Great challenge, Jhieminga.

I found this picture after OMA had identified it. The keel beam and the stick are very distinctive.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/109_0949_cc1ea5bf02c6790afce345b05197f4f8b809cfc0.jpg

It's in the Berkshire Museum of Aviation at Woodley, but apparently more complete now.

[Jhieminga]

The photo I used (cropped slightly) came from this page with restoration photos: https://museumofberkshireaviation.co.uk/html/exhibits/student_restoration.htm
The page about the aircraft shows it to be almost complete: https://museumofberkshireaviation.co.uk/html/exhibits/student.htm

If no-one else has anything, I found a photo I took a couple of years ago:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x750/13122011085_e459aa8b7f0237e202d1381f3898e1bed41a634c.jpg
This should be easier to solve than the Miles Student.

[oncemorealoft]

Is it the Eclipse 500? One of the Very Light Jets.

[Jhieminga]

It is indeed, this one to be precise: https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7917608

Your controls oncemorealoft.

[oncemorealoft]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1388x925/7553b680_5dd2_4244_b86c_af2e199197ac_3684e56521929ed6e1e8862 a28f9a179ab044eb0.jpeg
Don’t think we have had this one before.

[Jhieminga]

Beechcraft Starship? OH if correct.

[oncemorealoft]

Well done, J. Open House it is.

[Self loading bear]

Don’t think we have had this one before.

It featured short in February but was recalled as the Starship1 logo was not blacked-out.

[dixi188]

That was my bad!

[Jhieminga]

The 'flap/fwd wing' switch behind the condition levers is a dead giveaway for this type. ;)

[oncemorealoft]

To keep things going, and as it’s Open House, here is a new challenge. 20 were made and it has an interesting background and a link (obscure) to Ford motors.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1493x1057/1bf829eb_70fc_4882_ade7_d6e0137fbfb8_a66f5ed743003a927619649 c7121679de6b465db.jpeg

[Jhieminga]

Built by Convair?

[oncemorealoft]

Nope! :) No more clues yet.

[oncemorealoft]

May be a clue is needed? This was a European aircraft from a well known company.

[evansb]

Fokker F-25 Promotor.

[oncemorealoft]

evansb has it. There’s an interesting story behind the aircraft:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_F.25#/search

“The F.25 was based upon the design of the Difoga 421 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Difoga_421&action=edit&redlink=1) aircraft, home-built and -designed secretly during World War II by Frits Diepen, a Ford garage owner from Tilburg (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilburg), the Netherlands. His intention was to escape from German-occupied Europe to Britain using this aircraft that was powered by a Ford V-8.”

[Self loading bear]

Nice challenge!

Mr Diepen later founded aircraft part supplier
Avio-Diepen.
Now Proponent.
One of the largest independent parts suppliers.
With 9 distribution centers worldwide.

[evansb]

Thank you. I am not allowed to post URLs until I have at least 10 posts. It is OPEN HOUSE.

[Jhieminga]

Nice challenge, I never knew that the F-25 had controls on one side only.
the Difoga 421 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Difoga_421&action=edit&redlink=1) aircraft, home-built and -designed secretly during World War II
This is the popular story, but it is incorrect unfortunately. It was built using available materials only, but there was nothing secret about it. A model was tested in the NLR windtunnel in Amsterdam and the report about this was published. The company applied for both a registration and a certificate of airworthiness through the normal channels in 1942. Due to 'the current circumstances' this could not be accommodated, and because of this the application as well as the already paid costs were returned. The purpose of designing and building the aircraft was purely commercial.
In Dutch only, but see here for the evidence (includes a lot of photos of the aircraft as well): https://www.hdekker.info/DIVERSEN/Difoga%20421.htm

[Self loading bear]

As we have Still open house:
Does anybody recognize this?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/220x293/113158be_51da_48b0_9529_b09d00bd9861_96d25f08e7bddd30ab8e7ac 1035b0068e1b31fa0.jpeg

[Jhieminga]

A simulator? 😉

[Self loading bear]

Yes that photo was of a simulator
Here is another one of a simulator of the same type aircraft

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/591x392/fd5b9dbd_9ee1_4bcb_9b34_ccbaed40ca9e_fc68fc9f658b13b1ea91e5f bda63a36121a079cf.jpeg

[sycamore]

Northrop F-20...?

[Self loading bear]

I am sorry but not an F-20.
About a decade later

[Jhieminga]

An Atlas Cheetah C appears to fit the bill. Specifically a SAAF simulator at AFB Makhado ;)

[Self loading bear]

Over to you Jelle
The last is the Cheetah C simulator and
the first photo was of the Cheetah D simulator

[Jhieminga]

It took a bit of searching, but we got there in the end!
Here's another challenge:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/807x714/screenshot_200514_26f098a1442e786f1c27fd911b65da950ee26624.j pg

[Self loading bear]

Looks like the tandem backseat?
Motorglider?

[Jhieminga]

Not a motorglider.

[sycamore]

Yak -3/9u....

[Jhieminga]

Not a Yak.

[India Four Two]

American? Prototype or homebuilt?

[Jhieminga]

Not American. Only one was built (not homebuilt) so you could say it’s a prototype.

[sycamore]

Cranfield A-1.... if it is ,I should have remembered ,having flown it a bit...

[Jhieminga]

I'm slightly jealous now, as it is my photo, but its flying days are long gone. The Cranfield A-1 it is. You're up.
Photo of the aircraft as it looks today here: https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1055034

[sycamore]

J, I would have thought that it would have been a lot better than it was...it was as though the designers had not flown an aerobatic aircraft,or took any advice from those who did.It had a lot of power,but required a lot of `Armstrong` to horse it about...Not as nice or easy as a Yak50/52/18 or as smooth as a Zlin...Thanks for the memory....!!

Anyway,it`ll have to be OH....

[Jhieminga]

I only crawled over it for a few days but did get the impression that there was more airframe than needed, so I can understand your comments about its handling. Seeing as it’s more or less Chipmunk sized but heavier, it is difficult to see it as a serious contender in aerobatics championships.

[dash7fan]

As we have pen house
https://i.imgur.com/peoeguKl.jpg

[Jhieminga]

Construction reminds me of a KR-2, but the fuselage is too deep and the flight controls are behind the wing spar on that type. Vans RV-6 is another option... but I doubt it. Let's start with the question: is it a US homebuilt aircraft?

[dash7fan]

Homebuild - yes

US - no

[Self loading bear]

Brandli BX-2 ?

[dash7fan]

SLB is correct. Your control

[Self loading bear]

Thanks Dash,
Nice little aeroplane that Brandli BX-2.

I could not locate that particular dashboard.
But the sliding forward canopy gave a good clue.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x819/e31a59a7_503b_4684_98f5_ff81d57a90e5_e04f4238c877181316777fc 7d04e73abca654de6.jpeg

Stand by for another launch.

[Self loading bear]

Today’s challenge

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/456x189/60edff22_cf8d_46f0_977f_dacfba2c9ddf_0ed88dbc18cec30b70f00b6 8348c513071a4cd05.jpeg

[bingofuel]

Upgraded Rivet Joint?

[Self loading bear]

Close but no cigar

[bingofuel]

Upgraded USAF E3G?

[Self loading bear]

Bingo for Bingo
The Dragon cockpit upgrade for the E3 Sentry.
Your thread

[bingofuel]

Many thanks, can I pleased declare ‘open house’?

thanks
BF

[Self loading bear]

1 month Open House
What is the problem?
I hope this will be first and last time I have to post 2 challenges in a row:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1242x502/ee375a43_e77a_4215_a9ad_3a495d490d13_c47e81f605783e201b767ee bb44681c2dfc3bec6.jpeg

[sycamore]

Judging by the shape of the windows,I`d guess at a Learjet ,...

[Self loading bear]

Judging by the shape of the windows,I`d guess at a Learjet ,...

Definitely not als successful as the Learjet.
The Learjet has more types than this type has serial numbers.

This photo is the first with an updated cockpit.

This was the old one:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x402/86826557_62d5_4b58_ace5_4c1a08dc9cfa_6915f51ccf6f02642f9d8d9 91fee4c9acf4646af.jpeg

[Jhieminga]

The SyberJet SJ30 it must be then.

[Self loading bear]

The SyberJet SJ30 it must be then.

The Syberjet SJ30 it is
Only 8 built up to now.
the SJ30i is currently being certified for 2021.
A SJ30x was also being planned with enhanced engines.

Jelle has control

[Jhieminga]

Let's try a somewhat older design this time.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/982x664/cockpit_200707_0d279da73a2808fced9eb2b65fe0dd8689ba0a5f.jpg

[India Four Two]

Late 40s US twin?

[Jhieminga]

Late 40s and twin is correct.

[evansb]

Aero Commander L 3805 ?

[India Four Two]

So not US, how about French?

[Jhieminga]

No and no I’m afraid.

[India Four Two]

Jh, I'm confused by your first "No". So it IS US?

[Jhieminga]

Sorry, the first no was to state that it is not an Aero Commander. We covered the US in a previous post. Also, it is not French.

[Jhieminga]

Perhaps a clue is in order: check your gear (lights)! ;)

[evansb]

Piaggio P.136 Royal Gull ?

[India Four Two]

Little wheel at the back?

[Jhieminga]

It does have that.... but is it not what I meant...

[Jhieminga]

Piaggio P.136 Royal Gull ?
Don't know why I missed your post earlier, but the Royal Gull it is!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x399/20100729_piaggio_gull_vandermeulen_rv18668_cd48af06e678cac14 6d2162a2129398e38a6290f.jpg

[evansb]

No worries about missing the post. It is delayed by the mods due to my junior status for analysis before posting. Also, due to my junior status, I am not permitted to post photos until I have a minimum of 10 posts. Thank you for the excellent challenge. I hereby declare OPEN HOUSE.

[Jhieminga]

I realised later on that you've got a new status and that this will have delayed your post. It certainly wasn't there when I replied to India Four Two.

I was hoping that this one would run for a few days. For those who missed it: there are six gear lights, most likely three blues and three browns (although they may have used different colours originally), denoting an amphibian.

[Self loading bear]

The thread has dropped to the second page,
time for a new challenge:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x614/4db1b58f_17cd_4907_9678_aa52da42b74c_2a0e76b69c0fb69b8a5ffee b02182379f4ef160c.jpeg

[BCMG CAVOK]

Aero Commander L-3805?

[Self loading bear]

Aero Commander L-3805?

This looks like an answer for the the current challenge on Name that flying machine????

[Jhieminga]

Aero Commander L-3805?
It's almost a copy of post #1828. Not a serious guess, surely...?

[Self loading bear]

Not from the same country as the Aero
this is a photos of the somewhat lighter version.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/239x306/91e87a2e_7f7d_4390_a915_f9292b707fe0_944f2a064825533726ff20a 85840b44e9c1abbf7.jpeg

[Self loading bear]

Another clue seems required:

It is a jet-trainer but it is not a jet trainer.

[sycamore]

RFB Fantrainer.....OH if correct...

[Self loading bear]

RFB Fantrainer.....OH if correct...

Exactly!

OH called

[Self loading bear]

In order to pull this thread from the dungeons:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/744x729/aa913bcf_33a6_4085_97e8_b6d3d0d26305_2f69402464974d0cfd1ac30 55cc4f6687efc0a31.jpeg
Bonus points for the name of the pilot

[sycamore]

Possibly an Emeraude,or Jodel
possibly a `star`,judging by the watch, who has just done his first solo,as his tie has had a `snip`.....

[Jhieminga]

I'll go for the bonus points: Reinhard Mey.

[ea200]

I'll go for the bonus points: Reinhard Mey.

Good spot. Probably Wilhelmshaven then. Doesn't look like an Emeraude more like a Jodel coaming. Maybe a D117 or D119.

[Self loading bear]

Reinhard Mey is correct.
Wilhelmshafen is then probably also correct as Reinhard did his first solo flight from there and his Tie has been clipped.

Now I need to confess that I do not have the final answer myself on the aircraft.
I have checked the suggestions but up to now I have not found a dashboard that is roughly the same.
The divided dash upper/lower can be found on both suggested makes.
But I have not found pictures of dashboards of which the lower half has an arched extension (downwards) in the middle.

Further clues to search could perhaps be:
The Ball shaped choke/lever on a pin (see shadow)
or the type plate in view in center of the left seat?

So who can help me (us) further on this?

[sycamore]

You could email him...?
Could be a SIPA/Gardan

[ea200]

I think that might be Wilhelm Tank's Hanger in the background. I have contacts there but I will only resort to that if nothing else turns up. Mey's contact details are available but perhaps not in the spirit of the game? SIPA cockpit pictures are hard to find but the coaming looks the right shape.

[Jhieminga]

Better version of the photo here: https://www.swr.de/swr4/bw/musik-events/bildergalerie/-/id=258148/did=13831192/format=pdf/gp1=20793526/gp2=20843660/nid=258148/vv=gallery/uuv9rz/index.html
I would hazard a guess that the shadow of a ball shaped choke/lever is the throttle.

Edit: there's a prominent t-handle at the top left of the panel. Could that be a tow-hook release?

[ea200]

Better version of the photo here: https://www.swr.de/swr4/bw/musik-events/bildergalerie/-/id=258148/did=13831192/format=pdf/gp1=20793526/gp2=20843660/nid=258148/vv=gallery/uuv9rz/index.html
I would hazard a guess that the shadow of a ball shaped choke/lever is the throttle.

Edit: there's a prominent t-handle at the top left of the panel. Could that be a tow-hook release?

Seems an unlikely place for a hook release. The only ones I've come across have been on the floor (C172) or sidewall (Pawnee). The linkage would be somewhat convoluted from where that T handle is and instrument panels don't tend to be that robust. Mind you, I've no idea what else it could be.

Unless of course it's a parking brake?

[Self loading bear]

You could email him...?
Could be a SIPA/Gardan

The SIPA’s all seem to have a handgrip at the top of the windscreen.
I might drop him an email to get final closure.
For the mean time, it turns out to be a rather good challenge. Keep those suggestions coming!

[ea200]

How about an MS 880B. The coaming looks right and I've found a picture showing a T handle in that spot.

[Jhieminga]

I read in an interview that he learned to fly with a guy called Uli Cop, who later died in an aerobatic accident. The lead didn't get me anywhere though.

Edit: I had a look at the MS880, I agree that it is most likely this type. The T-handle, the angle of the lower panel with the curve next to the knee, the other levers along the bottom edge all appear to fit. I thought it might be a taildragger but the Rallye also has a bit of a nose up stance on the ground.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1066/img_2406_4e256c76cc5d3f285a5af2d73024697df680fd23.jpg

[Self loading bear]

How about an MS 880B. The coaming looks right and I've found a picture showing a T handle in that spot.

I think you are correct. I also found some photos of MS 893’s with similar dash.
But that is just a follow up on the MS 880.
EA200 the stage is yours!

[ea200]

Sorry for the delay, busy today. I thought it was a taildragger and when I found the Rallye picture I nearly rejected it. When I checked the ground attitude I remembered that nose high stance.
Good challenge. Open house I'm afraid.

[Self loading bear]

To pull the thread from the dungeons:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/752x558/27c02760_63a0_4d0c_838e_d9a0d4f031db_ca6c52765cb397deaa2dfe4 572230a24d9cceb37.jpeg

[Jhieminga]

Northrop YC-125 Raider, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YC-125_Raider

[Self loading bear]

Exactly Jelle!
The Northrop YC-125.

I wondered why this aircraft was under powered?
surely there where larger radial engines available?

[Jhieminga]

Thanks SLB! I'll go and search for a new challenge.
Bolting on a different engine is easier said than done. The R-1820s used on the Raider are 1200hp but weigh around 540kg each. Going to a bigger engine would mean either the R-2000, which gives you 1350hp each but at 710kg per engine. A rather modest step up in power. The next one up would be the R-2600 at 1750hp, a nice increase, but weighing in at 930kg each. So each step up means more weight (all figures times three of course) which messes up your payload available and your weight and balance, but also means increased fuel flows to feed those horses, which messes up your range as you most likely can't increase the size of the fuel tanks (and if you do, you're taking another big chunk out of your payload). It's all compromises!

[Allan Lupton]

I wondered why this aircraft was under powered?
surely there where larger radial engines available?
Yes, even some variants of the Wright R1820 were more powerful than the 1200 hp -99 quoted (as were some variants of P&W R1830).

[Jhieminga]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/597x430/cockpit_201008_d44813b4826a3a674219b5f8d2c0b88be254493b.jpg

[washoutt]

Not to mention the redesign of the engine mounts

[JustinHeywood]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/597x430/cockpit_201008_d44813b4826a3a674219b5f8d2c0b88be254493b.jpg
Nearest I could get was the Junkers G38.
Am I on the right continent at least?

[Jhieminga]

I'll make it easy and go with no..... (there is a link between that continent and the aircraft type, but it was not built or designed in Europe).

[sycamore]

Russian ,or Japanese....?

[Jhieminga]

Neither Russian nor Japanese.

[India Four Two]

there is a link between that continent and the aircraft type, but it was not built or designed in Europe

Argentina?

[Jhieminga]

Not Argentina.

[JustinHeywood]

I'll make it easy and go with no..... (there is a link between that continent and the aircraft type, but it was not built or designed in Europe).

Based largely on that clue, its late 20s styling and primitive instrumentation, the most likely suspect I can find is the Fokker F32 - a portly contraption indeed - but I can’t locate a cockpit photo.

[Jhieminga]

No need for that, there’s one in post #1867! 😉
You’re up Justin!

[JustinHeywood]

https://cezet.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/pzlm-15-9.jpg
In keeping with the “aircraft only a mother could love” theme...

If this has been up before, apologies.

[Self loading bear]

I like the lock.
As someone would steel this contraption.

[JustinHeywood]

I like the lock.
As someone would steel this contraption.
I guess it’s more of a gust lock. And yes that is 2 wings through the window;
i.e a biplane

[India Four Two]

I thought it had an Eastern European look, but I hadn't spotted the lower wing. That and the bracing strut triggered a vague memory.

There's ugly and then there's the PZL-M15 Belphegor:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x600/pzl_m_15_belphegor_at_central_air_force_museum_monino_pic1_8 274737e7f86edb0f3ce684ff4af892ca9501176.jpg

Several claims to fame according to Wikipedia:
The PZL M-15 is believed to be the world's only jet agricultural aircraft (i.e. the world's only jet crop-duster), the world's only jet biplane and the world's slowest jet

The name is a nickname:
In demonology, Belphegor is a demon, and one of the seven princes of Hell, who helps people make discoveries. He seduces people by suggesting to them ingenious inventions that will make them rich.

[JustinHeywood]

I thought it had an Eastern European look, but I hadn't spotted the lower wing. That and the bracing strut triggered a vague memory.

There's ugly and then there's the PZL-M15 Belphegor:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x600/pzl_m_15_belphegor_at_central_air_force_museum_monino_pic1_8 274737e7f86edb0f3ce684ff4af892ca9501176.jpg

Several claims to fame according to Wikipedia:


The name is a nickname:

Well done India.
I hope that thing flew better than it looked. Over to you.

[India Four Two]

Thanks Justin.

And now for something completely different - a minimalist cockpit:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/451x268/wad_2020_10_11_f4e671bd29f891a330388635328f85744085dc29.png

[India Four Two]

I'm surprised this well-known aircraft hasn't been identified yet. My picture is of the rear cockpit.

I flew in one of these for the first time last week. A memorable experience.

[JustinHeywood]

I'm surprised this well-known aircraft hasn't been identified yet. My picture is of the rear cockpit.

I flew in one of these for the first time last week. A memorable experience.

you did say ‘minimalist cockpit’ but I reckon Orville Wright had a more comprehensive panel.

I can’t find anything that spartan

[ea200]

Reminds me of a Christen Eagle

[Asturias56]

Microlight?

[Bergerie1]

And what about this one?

https://youtu.be/J_8mdH20qTQ

[washoutt]

What a sensible cat, to sit so still during an emergency.

[FlightlessParrot]

What a sensible cat, to sit so still during an emergency.
And it did not try to take its baggage with it on evacuation.

[Bergerie1]

But what sort is it? The aeroplane not the cat!

[India Four Two]

Reminds me of a Christen Eagle

That's because it is - a "Christen Eagle II" to be precise. Flown solo from the back seat. Here's a view of both cockpits:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/540x720/1986_christen_eagle_ii_for_sale_3_a8e4d40fdd626e8e2a863d775f 6b16e4abbd66c4.jpg

Here's a shot of me preparing for my first flight last Wednesday:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/847x562/screen_shot_2020_10_12_at_09_28_04_f7c32be0e836499acbe6399be bf9427ec77ad714.png

An unreal experience for someone who's only flown aeros in Chipmunks and similar. I had previously flown 44 other types, which, using a vehicle analogy, ranged from trucks to sports cars. By comparison, this flight was like getting into a F1 car!

ea200 has control.

[ea200]

Thanks India. Spent a few hours in that cockpit. Need a bit of cooperation from the front seater if you want to see the ASI or change the altimeter setting! Lovely to fly but weight and balance demands respect. Better vis than a Pitts S2 though.

Here's the next:


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/405x405/untitled_9529bdd39e282be1462a3f494fc3f889f00b5ae7.jpg

[ea200]

No takers so far. Here's a slightly wider shot, maybe that will help. This design has spawned a number of developments.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/405x405/cockpit_2_6b9f32748d93b099eb49c949e3e9df6f828c51f4.jpg

[sycamore]

Can`t read the`Aresti` which may give a clue...CAP232 for starters...?

[ea200]

Nice try but not the CAP232. I can't read the Aresti on the original either but there is a tumble in there somewhere. This aircraft has the same G limits as the 232 if that helps.

[sycamore]

Would`ve thought anyone doin` aeros would be able to read,or have a `G0-PRO` strapped to their head..no straps on pedals either....not an SBach..? having had a flight in one with the owner(airline CEO!); Either tandem or single ? Extras come in various rigs,but it may be a `One Design`...?

[ea200]

You are right, it's not an SBach. It's a single seater but there is a twin seat version. Not an Extra but there is a connection. I have flown an aerobatic type with straps but not sure what it was now. May have been a Cap or possibly Yak? You're getting close I think.

[sycamore]

Stevens Akro / Lazer...ruled out MiG,Yak,and Sukhoi,not Zlin,possibly Wagner...?

[ea200]

It is indeed a Laser 200. The design was a development of the Stevens Akro and later Walter Extra designed the Extra 230 based on the Laser he had previously used in competitions. The 230 later developed into the Extra 200/300 range.

You have control.

Why is pprune changing the a into an @ sign?

[sycamore]

Sorry guys,Open House...

[India Four Two]

Why is PPRuNe changing the a into an @ sign?

I seem to remember it is something to do with the issues related to people pointing green devices of this type at aircraft!

[ea200]

Thanks India42. That possibility never occured to me.

[nvubu]

A rare venture into this thread from me.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1439x890/20201028_32dc37a3f90cf3b9268866a5fdae955562a16172.jpg

I must remember to check the thread :cool:

[sycamore]

Something from Germany...possibly 4-engined...?

[nvubu]

Not from Germany, but it is 4-engined.

[JustinHeywood]

A rare venture into this thread from me.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1439x890/20201028_32dc37a3f90cf3b9268866a5fdae955562a16172.jpg

I must remember to check the thread :cool:

Good one nvbu - it’s an interesting one. With the industrial steam-punk style, I’m guessing weight wasn’t a primary concern. Something nautical perhaps?

[Jhieminga]

I'm thinking it's a B-24 Liberator during construction.

[nvubu]

Yes a B-24 Liberator during construction.

Jhieminga has control

[Jhieminga]

Here we go with a new challenge:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/598x468/cockpit_201030_17eb839e94088ad3f52204f34e74be8f5891de53.jpg

[Self loading bear]

This challenge is running way too long.
Earlier tonight I thought that the left hinged canopy would be a valuable clue.
But it showed there are a considerable number of left hinges.
Then I identified the Martin Baker Mk7 ejection seat.
As ?all? applications are given on the MB site and
Together with the apparent preference of Jelle for German experimental aircraft.
i come to the EWR VJ 101.

[Jhieminga]

Oops, should have checked this thread a bit sooner. You've got it SLB, it is indeed another German Senkrechtstarter. I found a nice set of photos here: VJ-101 C pictures I (http://www.tomtom-net.de/resources/vj101/vj101_i1.htm) and couldn't resist.... I guess I have to change my preferences to keep this a bit challenging next time. ;)

[Self loading bear]

This might be a simple challenge for the experienced threaders.
Perhaps give the others a 24 hour head start?
Did one see any other aircraft with a gear shift lever?

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/1ac4074f_0b0b_4b79_8cab_03b24e4e774c_a8cbf517f652764e1ff792a 7521cd58dfd35ecbe.jpeg

[Jhieminga]

Allright, I'll wait a bit before posting the answer.... ;) You could have made this a much greater challenge!

[Asturias56]

Since its all in French............................

[Self loading bear]

Since its all in French............................

At least E and W on the compass are in English!
(and the 4 min turn indicator)

[dixi188]

At least E and W on the compass are in English!
(and the 4 min turn indicator)
I don't think that's a compass on the left, but I'm with you on the NSEW.
It's an Omni Bearing Selector for the VOR part of a VOR/LOC indicator. It should go with a King KX170 or similar that appears to have been stolen.

[Jhieminga]

I reckon this is the survivor that's in Europe, that one doesn't appear to have flown for a while. Perhaps the NavCom was needed for another aircraft.

[sycamore]

As it`s got a `modern intercom system,it may be in resurrection mode......

[dixi188]

And what's the wheel or UFO doing in front of the left windscreen?

[Jhieminga]

Good question, there are more photos from the same sequence here: https://www.machdiamonds.com/s200.html but none of them show that particular UFO in more detail.

[Self loading bear]

Jelle
It is indeed the SIPA Minijet V200.
I could blurred half the photo but I thought it just such a sharp picture of a beautiful dashboard that did not want to spoil it.

The UFO is probably a guide wheel for a hanging rolling door.
Dixi, thanks for the explanation about the bearing selector.

Jelle has control.

[India Four Two]

A "baby Vampire" - lovely!


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x525/s200a_46612539d253d2876c0f68ada72bf98e0e17dc12.jpg

[kenparry]

Yes - but what on earth did the gearlever do?

[meleagertoo]

Flap and gear control - it's clearly labeled.
It combines flap and gear control into one lever and each system has two selections, raise and lower. The off function is in the middle of the H gate as depicted. Indicators on the panel comfirm u/c and flap position achieved.

Lethal altimeter!

[Self loading bear]

I was wondering myself:
Are those both altitude change meters
m/s and pieds/minute?

[Jhieminga]

"When I grow up I want to be a Vampire..." Charming little jet, but that lever is a recipe for disaster that reminds me of the identical flaps and gear switches in the B-17s.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x670/im002937_resize_5273715968cdefa51a78fbf9c0a04030692298ef.jpg

[ea200]

The Spanish ASI, stick, pedals and mag switch are all spanish built BU 131 but it looks brand new. I will have to go for the Bucker though. Maybe a re-build.

[Jhieminga]

I'll have to hand the controls to ea200. Officially it's a CASA 1-131E Jungmann, but let's not argue about the details... ;)

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x649/im002935_crop_e3cdebd0a0d473add6e611c8ca8fc569447f6bab.jpg

[ea200]

Thanks Jhieminga. Silly of me, knew it was a spanish one and forgot the CASA designation. The mag switch with the little key on a chain was an immediate giveaway. Only flown one once, delightful.

Let's try this.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x300/cockpit1120_28753803f26cd2118a142de05b7bc57f882b10c1.jpg

[UV]

Condor? OH if correct.

[ea200]

Indeed it is UV and with a nice new panel in this one.

Open house is declared.

[Self loading bear]

As I understood the Reinhard Mey challenge was appreciated;
I stumbled over another VIP in a cockpit photo were the aircraft type was not stated.
No extra points for the VIP’s name and I can assure you his tie was clipped long before this photo was taken.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1961/b8c266ed_5300_4510_925e_dc8f3f96cd5c_b42ff079467411aae54c82e 65f377dd50ea80c68.jpeg

[JENKINS]

Lockheed L12, Wing Commander Gibbs flying?

[Self loading bear]

Lockheed L12, Wing Commander Gibbs flying?
I have not (yet) found Electra juniors with an horizontal division.
The glass also seems curved and Electras had only flat glass panels?
certainly not wing commander Gibbs.
But he was (titular) RAF Commodore.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x2000/2261f724_9155_4117_af62_efcc98ac9bc0_a2f6a9d3263ca223a09b912 7c8f0734246c396c1.jpeg
Same day same cockpit with his personal (Co-) pilot. Who was also special adjudant to the missus of the Captain

[Archer4]

It is a Stinson L-5B-VW Sentinel. PH-PBB with His Royal Highness Prince Bernhard at the controls.

[JENKINS]

Wing Commander Gibbs was the pseudonym for HRH in WW2, that was the easy bit. Several photographs of that time in the cockpit appear on Interweb, none helping with aircraft ident though one appeared to show the Prince leaving an aircraft. Do I get a mark for the name of his Sealyham, often sharing a cockpit on flights, even if aircraft incorrect?

Your photographs from as far back as HM Queen Wilhelmina show the interest in Aviation expressed by the Dutch Royal Family.

[Archer4]

HRH Bernhard's office of Inspector General is in Hilversum which is next to my home field. They website of the airport (ehhv.nl, history page) has a page on him with pictures.

Also the actual plane is restored and based on the military airport of Gilze-Rijen. Owner is Royal Netherlands Historical Flight (kluhv.nl) of which I'm a sponsor.

[Self loading bear]

Jenkins, my apologies!
My bad not knowing about wing commander Gibbs.

Archy,
I doubt this cockpit photo was PH-PBB.

I have one more photo of HRH with his aide mr Gerben Sonderman beside the aircraft.
Apologies that it is no longer a What cockpit but now also Name that flying machine.

The game is still on and Jenkins can still go for full points.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/598x599/bebe8d06_47e8_4e06_8309_e9cadb94f7a5_aa4e414cd7cdaf097d2ea51 7cb079e6d90259ebe.jpeg

[sycamore]

Anson....?

[Self loading bear]

Anson....?
I didn’t find an Anson With the same side window layout.
Also the door seems to have more rounded corners than an Anson.

[Jhieminga]

I'll go with a Siebel Si 204A-1. OH if correct.

[Self loading bear]

I'll go with a Siebel Si 204A-1. OH if correct.

I think this is indeed a Siebel Si204A-1.
Probably PH-NAV owned by Prince Bernhard for a short period in 1946-47.
This same aircraft crashed as EC-ADB in Spain 1948.

I found matching photos of the cockpit with curtains and photos of same door ladder and matching side windows.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1980/d5a810b8_85b2_4dc1_b19d_29a760e850e9_b49fd35c191108c779bf9ab bee3ff5cf7840aa2e.jpeg

Open House called.

[Self loading bear]

If there are no takers for the open house,
I also have a cockpit photo of the wing commander Gibbs’
grandson, more widely known as Mr. WA van Buren.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/763x431/4a963aa8_bb24_4717_828f_5cc560fc5f68_8950c12903ee20cd46e07ca 2f1d406cac5be2472.jpeg

[Jhieminga]

Cessna Caravan!

[Self loading bear]

Cessna Caravan!

I had not yet searched myself, but I did not expect it to last very long.
I am curious about Jelle’s next challenge.
You have the con.

[Jhieminga]

Oh dear... the pressure.... ;)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/829x619/cockpit_201120_5d73c3bb093eae0a199aefcff3dff29d724b7118.jpg

[wub]

Jaguar GR3

[Self loading bear]

Must be the remake of the Spirit.

The spirit of st Louis , I mean,
As there is not much Forward view left to look ahead.

[Jhieminga]

Jaguar GR3
That’s the one! wub has control.

[wub]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1684x962/73d6aea1_2c06_489e_b98a_3cc47cdf450f_a2196326f7dbc24ec6636e1 9ae828cc87f5542e3.jpeg

[sycamore]

Airship or hovercraft.....?

[wub]

Airship or hovercraft.....?

Neither I’m afraid

[meleagertoo]

Neither and both as I suspect you know full well...

It's an A90 Olyanok ekranoplan.

[wub]

Neither and both as I suspect you know full well...

It's an A90 Olyanok ekranoplan.

Well I wasn’t going to give it away too early, well done...over to you...

[India Four Two]

Jaguar GR3

When I saw that picture, I imagined an early design meeting:
OK chaps. Here's the cockpit mockup. I want you to fill it with as many TVs, dials, knobs, switches, bells and whistles as you can. Don't worry about this new-fangled ergonomics fad!

[wub]

When I saw that picture, I imagined an early design meeting:

Similar to the Buccaneer cockpit, described as an ergonomic slum

[meleagertoo]

Open House please.

[Jhieminga]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x670/cockpit_201122_63766a3e1f8e6ba8a51eb1fc91490d0aae46d49a.jpg

[ex egbe]

Is it a Stampe per chance??

[Jhieminga]

It is not, sorry.

[washoutt]

Loose hanging wiring, can't be a FAR/CS 23 certified aircraft.

[Jhieminga]

Its design does predate FAR/CS 23... if that helps.

[sycamore]

New -build WACO...?

[Jhieminga]

Not a Waco, not built recently either.

[Self loading bear]

Is this a parasol wing and not a biplane?
Davis D-1 could be a candidate?

[Jhieminga]

It is a biplane.

[JustinHeywood]

A Great Lakes 2T-1A? I can’t match it exactly but the strut arrangement looks close.

[Jhieminga]

There's a reason you can't match it Justin.... it's not a Great Lakes Trainer ;)

[Jhieminga]

I get the feeling that a hint might be appreciated.... there is a link to a WWII bomber.

[sycamore]

Depends if it`s one of `ours`...one of `theirs,over there`,one of the `others`,or the `other others way over there`,or even `down there`.....?

[Jhieminga]

I somehow figured that, as the last guesses were all US types, most people would be looking in this direction anyway.

[meleagertoo]

OK, so what do we know?

Biplane, probably US
Has link to a WW2 Bomber
It's aerobatic (g-meter)
Fixed pitch prop.
Supercharged if I am not mistaken (Gauge calibrated in Atm at 10 o'clock from the compass) showing ambient pressure and scaled poorly for a normally aspirated engine.
Two guages apparently both reading temp 'F' up to 200'. One is next to what I take to be the the oil press gauge (why the strange scale markings - 32 and 212?) so the other - presumably - what else but water temp - so it's possibly water cooled? Then why a CHT gauge too?
Is the front part of the screen glazed at all, or just has a high coaming?

[Jhieminga]

As far as I know it's not a supercharged engine.

[sycamore]

Consolidated /Fleet ?? ,later linked to Brewster...mainly radials,occasional Gipsy Majors...

[Self loading bear]

As there is usually a Dutch link in Jelle’s challenges,
I will go for the
Curtiss / Travel Air 2000
aka Wichita Fokker

[Jhieminga]

I'm sorry SLB, the Dutch link was somewhere else... I'm going to hand the reins to sycamore for concluding that it's a Fleet. Originally designed as the Consolidated 'Husky Jr.' in 1928, the model was later renamed in honour of Consolidated president Ruben Fleet (linked to Consolidated and their B-24, it was a tenuous one...). This particular example of a Fleet model 7 is based at Lelystad, one of only two in Europe, with the Early Birds foundation: Fleet 7 ? Order book ´Doen´ (http://www.vroegevogels.org/projects/fleet-7/)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1067/img_2023_n724v_fleet_model_2_lelystad_14_november_2020_ac8bb 8e5147bf7d745a3c438162ec327aa4f5998.jpg
Photo: Berend Jan Floor / AirOnline.nl, more about this aircraft (in Dutch) here: https://www.aironline.nl/weblog/2020/11/23/n724v-fleet-model-2-van-vroege-vogels-is-weer-klaar-om-te-vliegen/

[sycamore]

Thanks J,;afraid it`ll be OH..
Of note,maybe,is the front track-rod `loop` on the u/c...I don`t see any sort of oleo/bungee/damper arrangement,so it must be pretty rigid....unless anyone knows different....easy to groundloop...?

[Jhieminga]

I don't know about the undercarriage, perhaps the loop indicates some sort of suspension internal to the fuselage that needs that much play around the other strut. When I dug the cockpit photo out of my files, I didn't realise that it had just emerged from an engine overhaul and general refurbishment just weeks ago.

[topgas]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/701x355/cockpit2_482efe2f57920bf7745b97a8902c384a5fd00aa0.jpg
As it is OH, I hope you won't mind me posting one I don't know the answer to. It is a screenshot from an episode of QI and I am curious as to what it is from

[bafanguy]

From the pattern of the cockpit windows and 4 throttles, I'll say DC-6 or DC-7 ?

[topgas]

Thank you. I was confused by what appear to be glazing panels behind the glare shield but are probably just reflections. Wide cockpit.
Back to OH

[Bergerie1]

What about a DC6B?

[bafanguy]

What about a DC6B?
B1,

Could be. It's been 50 years since I flew the -6B and didn't fly the DC-7. My recollection of details just might be a little fuzzy by now. But the fwd end of the overhead isn't what I think I remember it looking like. I'm always prepared to be wrong...and try to stay good at it with steady practice. Maybe Spooky2 will come along and offer his opinion .

[Self loading bear]

Does this count as a What cockpit or should I post in Name that Flying machine?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1563/4584fb15_37cb_423a_8aa8_02440745f117_454547fc78e32de975a73fb 8ecf9127f8c694149.jpeg

[Asturias56]

European? Whoever built it obviously had shares in the wire business.............

[Jhieminga]

de Havilland Moth coupe?

[Self loading bear]

de Havilland Moth coupe?

There were several Moths.
I think a type number is required.

[Jhieminga]

The dH.60 was the one I had in mind, but I could be wrong.... the cowling points to a Cirrus or Gipsy I engine.

[Allan Lupton]

The dH.60 was the one I had in mind, but I could be wrong.... the cowling points to a Cirrus or Gipsy I engine.
I'd have said DH60G (Gipsy Moth) coupé and it does all match except there is an exhaust pipe alongside the cockpit which in this case we have not got.

[Self loading bear]

I also think this is a DH-60G Gipsy Moth Coupe.
These have also been built without the exhaust pipe along the side.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1563/fa31b170_5da2_4716_9c04_31c1f7688df6_9bf444ad2c27418be91932f caf0af2799f00db17.jpeg
I did only determine the type after I posted the challenge.
The photos is tagged Stag Lane January 1929
Yesterday i found this picture

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/a227d673_9716_4fbb_a4b1_770f718ce174_7c3ff89a178781f6851b679 2f1443c8d5411eeb9.jpeg

I think Jelle can take the lead?

[Jhieminga]

Thanks! Let's make it open house, I don't have a suitable challenge available right now.

[Asturias56]

Lets try this....

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/463x344/2020_11_21_172506_accc6e04a24254e828014d01192950db313cb9a8.j pg

[Self loading bear]

Must haven been cosy so close side-by-side!!

[Asturias56]

Smaller people in those far off days Bear - and not everyone is built to Dutch standards!

[Asturias56]

Regretfully I can only find a single picture of the cockpit - which isn't surprising given the history - it's pre WW2 of course

[Self loading bear]

A bit like an Italian bomber?

[Jhieminga]

The Glazing reminds me of a Stinson Trimotor, but I'm not sure it's a three-engined type.

[sycamore]

Go to `NTFM ,P94,#1876......

OH if correct....

[Asturias56]

Correct - the General Aircraft ST-18 Croydon - I never got to post the cockpit in the What plane thread and it was pity to see it go to waste ;)
Sycamore has called OH

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/524x306/2020_11_21_172700_ba720e68eae0bae6053809ad4976051a4ae9332d.j pg

[Self loading bear]

Have we gone through all cockpits already?
This one to prevent the thread to drift to the second forum page.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x405/1ac0cbe1_9151_4257_b8ef_6839acdd5738_bed0a1d9ff7c595fc609ff4 0aa113c7dcd3b777a.jpeg

If you might find the answer shortly but tend to declare open house,
please wait 24hrs before replying. This in order not to spoil the search for others around the globe.