What Cockpit?

[sycamore]

Was it a `Thompson Trophy` racer in 1938-39...?

Mel,steel tubes near floor ,and panels appear to be rivetted,or nailed....
When I raced in `F1`we ran Continentals up to 4000rpm.....`custom` tweaked props....

[Noyade]

Radial engine.
Steel tube construction.
Not from the US of A.
Not a racer. Typical operating speed - around 111mph.
Not many built.



https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x509/2_9fc8b327407bc012cf64ec20e28cc6bd4905c424.jpg

[Noyade]

maybe 50's?.

Yes. :)

[meleagertoo]

Well, I got that all wrong ten!

Agricultural/crop sprayer?

[Asturias56]

Not from the USA but not a "continental" 7 on the diagrams.........

Canadian?

[kenparry]

The turn and slip looks rather British

[sycamore]

Even if it works `upside down....`

[meleagertoo]

As I suggested then.

CAC Ceres.

[Noyade]

CAC Ceres.

:ok:
Over to you, Mel.

https://www.goodall.com.au/australian-aviation/ceres/ceres.htm

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/635x438/screenshot_2023_09_25_at_20_01_44_ab211880130cd9b74c23f19d3e 14fe52e1eeb710.png

[meleagertoo]

4 seat touring aeroplane with stretcher capability.
Developed from a previous tandem 2 seater.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/139x121/screenshot_2023_09_28_at_10_45_30_c32cf6a77b98e780b180eccd4d 68cf4cdac5fbf3.png

[Asturias56]

American?

[meleagertoo]

No.
European.

[NearlyStol]

Jodel D140. (Posted also on 'name that plane' by mistake

[meleagertoo]

Afraid not.
This pre-dates your Jodel by twenty years or so.

[bean]

Miles Messenger?

[meleagertoo]

Not a Miles.

This one seems to have had a blind flying panel added though how you'd scan that systematically I can't imagine.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/527x354/screenshot_2023_09_29_at_14_09_15_2e1def788114df299b5682b0f5 7b7c1079edb0e8.png

[Asturias56]

Miles Mercury? fits the bill - but not a Miles.................

[meleagertoo]

As I said, not a Miles.
Anyhow, you never saw a Miles with a silhouette like that, did you?

First flight five years before the Mercury and though similar in many ways this was rather chunkier and more substantial.
From a country with one of the greatest aviation heritages. (ie not Rumania etc)

[Noyade]

Hmmm. Would the mystery cockpit be from an aircraft resembling a Spartan Executive - but from Italy?

[Noyade]

Possibly the NARDI FN.310?

[sycamore]

Possibly a Klemm...?

[meleagertoo]

It's not "possibly" the Nardi 310.
It is the Nardi 310.Well done Noyade.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/568x322/screenshot_2023_09_30_at_11_53_44_c75844a486a93e08848f2aade1 1ad691b261d4c7.png

[Noyade]

Cheers Mel.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/589x633/scan1450_86629b94a656b899306ed577c6a60f1be90c7b07.jpg

[sycamore]

Must be on the wing/strut....?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/529x600/09tigermothairspeedindicator_3fa4e24b4138a8debd6ef36b45211f3 fee6c4d33.jpg
like this,then...?

[Noyade]

Not a biplane Sycamore. Wiki says it was once clocked at 325mph.

[sycamore]

Possibly a Thompson Trophy racer from `38-39...?

[Noyade]

Yes - A Thompson Trophy racer. First flight was 1934 from a well known designer/builder. There is a YouTube video (1982) of him sitting in the racer explaining the cockpit controls and the aircraft in general. It now resides in a museum.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/904x576/cockpit_302f06b658c8587158304a8f5f9afa7bdc41e774.png

[Noyade]

External shot. I've read he sold the patent for the spring steel undercart to Cessna.
No wheel brakes.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x427/scan1452_8fdfe4523cf8023767be3f8744e7fd4803ba7bde.jpg

[Noyade]

Not able to monitor this for a few days - so I'll shut it down and declare Open House.

Twas...
Bonzo (https://www.eaa.org/eaa-museum/museum-collection/aircraft-collection-folder/1934-wittman-d-12-bonzo---n13688-n4486e)

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/251x205/screenshot_2023_10_11_at_18_00_06_5b6025160a94ed434ed26722dd afae6241c1be8c.png

[kenparry]

The shade of paint suggests USSR or Russia?

[meleagertoo]

There were a good many countries in the USSR besides Russia!
But no not Russia and only just USSR.

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/186x101/screenshot_2023_10_14_at_15_20_58_8e04db51dca9e9de239988f301 b07f754a38269f.png

[Self loading bear]

Yeah, already thought it looked familiar to me.
You cannot zoom out much further without giving the game away.
Belarus isn’t it?

[meleagertoo]

It is Belarus

[Self loading bear]

Nobody else seems interested.
it is the Narushevich Ring Wing.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1170x687/c8ba9d32_c923_4d74_9ac6_4c64e68a3d30_a3e0aab6f9e329f76f2ee93 29adb4123c8496758.jpeg

[meleagertoo]

Bear has it.
Sadly I get the impression this thread has had its day. Interest does indeed seem minimal.

[sycamore]

Too much vodka ,or coffee stains on `the plans`...!

[meleagertoo]

Apparently it flew well, had good short/rough field performance and had an nusually high payload vs its empty weight.
There's video of it flying on youtube.

[Self loading bear]

Thanks Mel,
we will just carry on until some newbies get interested. For which Aerodrome this seems to be the case so nothing lost.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1729x898/e8178124_50da_4314_95e6_66b54954b702_0403f11e7ecbf693a6f49e4 332bea4dd45a831c3.jpeg

[Noyade]

Dornier Do.27?

[Self loading bear]

Dornier Do.27?

That the one, over to you.

[Noyade]

Thanks Bear!


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x759/scan1453_ae2ca4d335ca152593418196f1740d06d054ece0.jpg

[Asturias56]

european?

is that a 4 point harness?

[Asturias56]

Don't recognise the radio bottom right - perhaps an older model?

basic GPS on top of the panel bolted on as an after thought

This looks like a kit plane to me??

Blowing up the image - the hand written sheet in the centre looks like it's an aerobatic maneuvers diagram

[ea200]

The radio looks like a Garmin 295 or one of the variants. Quite an old piece of kit now. The harness looks like a 5 point Hooker. The Arresti sequence is too blurred to make much out. I will see if I can sharpen it. There must be an G meter there somewhere, maybe bottom right. Single seat aerobatic taildragger, maybe an early homebuilt Pitts S1?

[Asturias56]

I think you mean the GPS is an old Garmin? Certainly looks like it - anyway that fits with the radio which doesn't look recent to me.

And it looks like a prop blade visible mid left - and there isn't an equivalent on the other side so it's either two blade (unlikely I'd guess) or 3 blade prop?

[Noyade]

Yes - home-built kit aerobatic aircraft - circa 1998.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x711/scan1455_6ba63b5ca423cf964fa4b725fa51049ea27464be.jpg

[sycamore]

Early `Extra 200`...?

[ea200]

Early `Extra 200`...?
The extra 200 is a two seater with a low wing and no tailplane bracing. It's predecessor was the Extra 230 which was a single seater and did have a braced tail plane but it had a mid wing. That is not one of those. I am pretty sure that Walter Extra did not design any thing like that. Having said that I have had no luck identifying it so far.

[Asturias56]

never got answer to the question - is it European?

[Noyade]

never got answer to the question - is it European?

No - not European.

[sycamore]

Super Acro Zenith,Canadian(but with French input ) designed for Jay Hunt....?

I thought initially it was a CAP20 Series,but they are all wood/composites....
Another possible is the Spinks Acromaster...
and not the Cranfield A-1...!

[Asturias56]

"Super Acro Zenith" - the pictures of Zeniths I've seen all seem to have a lot wider panel and weird Y shaped stick

Presumably its some American kit aircraft - there goes the weekend................. :bored:​​​​​​​

[Noyade]

Yes - American kit.
Engine is a Lycoming AEIO-360 - 200 hp.

[Asturias56]

Looking at the head on I keep thinking Walter but it isn't ........................ the paint scheme looks as if it's been used on every US aerobatic aircraft at one time so not a great help

First flight?

[sycamore]

A56,ref#3804,it was not produced by ZENITH/ZENAIR, it was called Super Acro `Zenith`,in Canada....

Anyway,back to last bid...Stephens Akro...?

[Asturias56]

Noyade said it's American in #3806

and there a hundreds of the damn things............. the cockpit looks really basic but you don't use REALLY basic aircraft for aerobatics (at least not for very long)

So I'm thinking it's a one off or very limited build of someone's idea for an ultra aerobatic type where things like gauges, IFR, cushions and a microwave aren't part of the build spec - performance, performance , performance I suspect

[Noyade]

Some more images then. before the weekend ends - that should greatly assist. ;)


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/798x580/scan1459_0d51e7cb9609365485b9355a11e4a1ddeb25522b.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/450x723/scan1456_517c6712682df1a65593f3c677a09769ae1a4851.jpg


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x395/scan1458_04cd3ec3440fedbf51b660d1fbcc8ff421b71939.jpg

[ea200]

Nearest I can find is an Aircraft Technologies Acro 1.

[Noyade]

Hi ea200.
Yes - Aircraft Technologies - but not the Acro 1
The mystery cockpit/machine was their third design....

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x748/scan1462_f9bbea3a26a830981e8ba06a149e7bb491915f9f.jpg

[Asturias56]

With those clues on a plate it look like one of Fred Meyers designs - a Meyer 360?

seems to tick all the boxes

[sycamore]

One of the 2-seaters is for sale.....

[Noyade]

The Meyer it is.
Over to you A56.

[Asturias56]

Open house dear friends - I've a lot on right now and can't find anything suitably obscure.........................

That was a hell of a challenge - we were all right (more or less) but until the final couple of posts :ok:

[Noyade]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x520/scan1470_c6f568e141ece255d39b4fff4ab3ab28778448a2.jpg

[Asturias56]

bit basic - looks like pre 1985

European?

[D26]

It's Russian. First flight 1993.

[Noyade]

It's Russian. First flight 1993.


That would be it. The article's author had high hopes, believing it would...

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x146/scan1471_fef33092b0f21f7cb16b12a3d7c08df050bdbf94.jpg

[meleagertoo]

Trouble was, no-one in 1993 Europe wanted a fuel-guzzling Vedednyev antique radial in their "caravan beater" - an accolade this thing in no way deserves.

[Noyade]

Just need a name.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x505/scan1473_d793fbb3183730383a61fbffe95ee8a545cbd530.jpg

[Self loading bear]

It is the Basic SM 92.
later fitted with a turbo prop it became Russia’s Finest.

[Noyade]

Thanks Bear - over to you sir. :ok:

[Self loading bear]

Thank you Noyade,
Lets see if this enough for the weekend:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1168x758/aecbe8fb_6717_4013_bb2f_897949464d00_95fd1b0facb77927bd13599 86850244585947c2b.jpeg

[Asturias56]

I recognise the picture - that shirt and the paucity of instruments!

We had this one on what aircraft last in the last month.......................... ;) my challenge as well!

[Self loading bear]

I recognise the picture - that shirt and the paucity of instruments!

We had this one on what aircraft last in the last month.......................... ;) my challenge as well!

Indeed also played in Name that flying machine.
At that time I found the complete picture to use it later in this What Cockpit.
I totally forgot it was played only last month and that you used a clipped part of the same photo!

the KB-6 Matajur.

I guess Open House then ? (As Asturias did not name it)

[Asturias56]

It was the shirt..................... OH it is

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/516x248/screenshot_2023_10_31_at_11_21_07_e302a2d902d2f1d6cf43f62372 d35b8858b0c644.png

[Asturias56]

Looks pretty modern - relatively uncluttered cockpit from the picture

Not American tho'?

[meleagertoo]

Not American.

[sycamore]

Chinese...?

[condor17]

Similarities to a single seat HS/Bae Hawk , [ Hawk 200? ] but would not put money on it being correct .

rgds condor

[Noyade]

Chengdu J-20?

[meleagertoo]

Noyade scores!

[Noyade]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x491/scan1475_503c41c3513cff29a0cee6de488cb7269a7012c7.jpg

[sycamore]

Japanese....?

[Noyade]

No mate.

[Asturias56]

European at a guess. Whatever that switch /valve is in the middle of the panel look MIGHTY important..

[meleagertoo]

The row of indicators above the triple switch are labelled "HELM" with increments of 10degrees to left and right so It appears to have an autopilot! The triple switch loooks to me like fuel valves.
Is it Spanish?

[Asturias56]

Maybe it sends a message down to the engine room?

[sycamore]

Is it a biplane...?
Is it armed....?

[Noyade]

Is it a biplane...?
Is it armed....?


Yes and yes.
And British. :)

[Asturias56]

It might be a Fairey Albacore..................... my Father-in-law flew them in WW2

[meleagertoo]

I suspect it's a seaplane or flying boat. Am I right?

[India Four Two]

It might be a Fairey Albacore

The instruments, particularly the single-pointer altimeter, indicate an earlier vintage.

[Noyade]

The instruments, particularly the single-pointer altimeter, indicate an earlier vintage.

Yes, younger then the Albacore by around 15 years.
Wiki mentions ten variants, Mel - one of which was temporarily fitted with floats, but otherwise a wheeled land-plane.

[meleagertoo]

It's a Vickers Vixen.

[Noyade]

:ok:


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x442/scan1479_b53f405efbcad0a6ab95b4da4b8ced420798b7f5.jpg

[India Four Two]

I had never heard of it!
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1125/vickers_vixen_db8e73994ff47118268bde31d6dd9ffbaec70d48.jpeg


PS Make sure Safe Search is turned on, before looking for pictures! :E

[Asturias56]

that's your story and you're sticking to it I guess....................

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/490x473/screenshot_2023_11_06_at_12_39_57_5914a1e6ec2c5ea3de87bfc30f 594edb4790f459.png

[meleagertoo]

I can't begin to imagine the CRM/Human Factors problems that throttle arrangement must have had with P1 trying to drive the plane and simultaneously manage P2 who was driving the engines.

Mind you, I'm not sure the country in question has progressed much in terms of CRM since those days.

[Self loading bear]

Letov S-32?

[meleagertoo]

Four years earlier than the Letov, infinitely more elegant and closer to home than Czechoslovakia.

[Asturias56]

That control column is quite similar to that in Boeing 247 - but not identical - so American? But that's further away than Czecho IIRC............. :\

[Self loading bear]

A very woke French plane!

[meleagertoo]

Bear's there!

A name anyone?

[Self loading bear]

I forgot which one it was I had to check again:
Couzinet 10 Arc-en-Ciel

[meleagertoo]

A remarkably svelte looking design I'd never heard of before.
https://youtu.be/FjA9P53KMGM?si=9FErz9Dq5b8a9GoQ

Over to you, bear.

[Self loading bear]

Thanks Mel,

I see a lot of glider enthusiasts on another thread.
Should not be difficult for them:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/183x275/0b319d5b_97f5_44fa_bc78_e544036e4bb8_93a74e155327ee9b76d9f50 481b37f34e68fbc02.jpeg

[Self loading bear]

Apparently not do easy to lure in the glider fanatics. Then we will winch them in by cable:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/505x474/c791e8c4_42b9_4845_b0ba_249ff52909d1_12fc3249ba6ebff525a003c e67564b2858d4ff0b.jpeg

[India Four Two]

I had never seen that cockpit view before, but the exterior picture gives it away. I've seen one of these aircraft at the Museum of Flight Restoration Center at Paine Field.

The Bowlus BA-100 Baby Albatross.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x469/bowlus_ba_100_baby_albatross_1_1024x469_158487bc47215e5f7af0 d476ae031281ddadf6cc.jpg

[Self loading bear]

India, That’s the one.
over to you

[India Four Two]

Standby. I’m travelling. Post in one hour.

[India Four Two]

A fairly easy one I think. Definitely a “handyman special”:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_7868_dc3d7d7d20fc59d9041f340862cd43ccdcaae8e1.jpeg

[dixi188]

Douglas DC-8?

[India Four Two]

Yes, a DC-8. I saw it two weeks ago at the museum at Langley BC.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_7869_9efdbf74ba4dfda8f44250588aacd26d9c78abaa.jpeg

I didn’t recognize it at first because of the lack of the distinctive air intakes under the nose.

dixi188 has control.

[oncemorealoft]

Are the DC8, DC9 and MD80 nose sections identical? Just wondered.

[thnarg]

Yes, a DC-8. I saw it two weeks ago at the museum at Langley BC.

I didn’t recognize it at first because of the lack of the distinctive air intakes under the nose..

Er, I think it’s a DC-9? Doesn’t really matter though so please carry on.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1025x918/img_4251_98ed1808957c4157ffa89a71346d7f5437df4dd0.jpeg

[bafanguy]

I was going to say DC-9 based on that red lever in the pic. It would correspond to the emergency gear extension lever in the DC-9...in the floor by the F/O's left foot.

But when someone said they saw it in a museum and it was a DC-8, I thought maybe it could be. I don't know anything about a DC-8. Maybe it also has an emergency gear extension lever it that same spot ?

[washoutt]

The DC-8 has airco intakes under the nose, the DC-9 doesn't. I can't see any intakes, so it looks like a DC-9

[dixi188]

I think it may be a DC-9 as there are no intakes for the aircon under the nose. Also photo's of DC-9 cockpits show a lot of blue whereas DC-8s don't.
The museum website doesn't mention it.

[thnarg]

I think it may be a DC-9 as there are no intakes for the aircon under the nose. Also photo's of DC-9 cockpits show a lot of blue whereas DC-8s don't.
The museum website doesn't mention it.

Here’s the googly earth streetview…

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/992x590/img_4254_4c7fb92bc49553b81e06831bc132cf8d9a1500be.jpeg
… looking distinctly DC-9ish.

Anyway, all yours dixi.

[dixi188]

OK. Try this, I don't expect it to last long, but I do like big cockpits.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/680x485/what_cockpit_18_11_2023_8bb4d37bf85b9d479fad5c51d3e61be799a3 669a.jpg

[Asturias56]

lot of glass

looks like various controls are in sets of 6

Not many of those around - perhaps a Convair ? But not a B-36 I think.................

[kenparry]

Maybe the XC-99?

[Asturias56]

I think you're right Ken - not one that I've ever heard of before! Tho' Conair were pretty desperate to keep building BIG planes............

[dixi188]

24 hours are up and I can confirm it is the Convair XC99.
kenparry has it.

[kenparry]

Thank you: nothing to hand, therefore open house

KP

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/302x278/screenshot_2023_11_20_at_20_56_42_6b24522689522131a866c8b14f b07e566eab3919.png

[Asturias56]

I keep thinking Czech when I look at that picture?

[meleagertoo]

It does have that look but no, not Czech.

[Noyade]

The Dabos JD.24P D'artagnan.

[meleagertoo]

Noyade takes control...

[Noyade]

Cheers Mel. I enjoyed that one.

Same era as the Dabos...


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/657x371/scan1481_ae56931a9422906e8d836a76d05a1ad69cd978be.jpg

[Noyade]

Canadian.

[Noyade]

Chopper.

[Noyade]

Two-seater.
Powered by two Ariel 4-cyl motorcycle engines.
Designed/built by a former Polish Air Force pilot.

[Asturias56]

can't seem to find any thing that fits built in the '60's.............. :confused:

[meleagertoo]

Is it the Duben?

Man, they'd have to be desperate to go flying with a Square Four engines!

Asturian, nothing's been said about 1960s. The Square Four was produced from 1931 - 1959

[Asturias56]

Noyade said "Same era as the Dabos..." - I took that to mean it was built in the '60's................

[meleagertoo]

Noyade said "Same era as the Dabos..." - I took that to mean it was built in the '60's................
Oops! My mistake.

[meleagertoo]

This machine has beaten every search engine I've tried.
I'm out of ideas.

[Asturias56]

same here.......................... :(

[Noyade]

Not the Duben. First flight (from what I've read) was 1962.
The full image may help...


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x564/scan1483_52f64bc6a8b8f989f66dc14d5749e4d276cbade2.jpg

[thnarg]

The full image may help...

Er… no. A leaf blower from Canadian Tire? Yet another machine you’d never get me up in.

[Asturias56]

think it might be a variant of the Avian Model2/180 Gyroplane that I found in the 1962 edition of Janes'

It doesn't look exactly like the challenge picture but searching on Wiki you find pictures that are close to if not identical. Apparently the first prototype flew in 1960 and crashed and the second version had several changes

janes reckons it was a Lycoming engine tho..............................

[Noyade]

Er… no.

Oh well, I tried. :) Thinking it must be time to end this one then...

The PIDEK J.P.2B

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/helicopter-prototype-by-joseph-pidek-canada.19316/
Pidek J.P.2B (http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft35181.htm)


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/764x500/pidek_jp_2b_01_9462474574a29668c59c6b1f7f05c1186364a192.jpg


I found in the 1962 edition of Janes'

Not sure what happened there A56? If you have that edition - it's on page 24.
No connection to Avian.

OPEN HOUSE.

[Asturias56]

Sorry its a 1960-61 edition I have not a 1962.....................

hell of a challenge that was........................ ;)

[Self loading bear]

To keep the thread going:
Don’t look at Bear Jr he has doubled his age in the mean time
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_7090_e712e1bf2a7ddd1b360e99041c2143f1c041cb6f.jpeg

[Asturias56]

"landing flaps 50 prohibited except for emergency" reads the placard. Airspeed max is 300 - presumably kt or mph.

Hard to read the lettering in the middle of the yoke. With image enhancement seems to have words "test" "initialised?" "??test under..>" just above the boys fingers

Military - not a lot of secondary instrument on LHS of cockpit - and slow

Not a Herc or a Transall I think

Someone might be able to ID the hideous food service point - those colours......................... :eek:

[dixi188]

Are we inside a DC-9 this time?

[bafanguy]

A museum display ?

[Asturias56]

"Are we inside a DC-9 this time?"" jeez I know they're old bu t even the oldest ones could do more than 300 mph. Tho MD did often run to 50 degrees of flap.................

[dixi188]

From wiki the DC-9 has a Vmo of 350 Knots. The Barber's pole looks to be at 320.
Perhaps this one has a mod that makes it more limiting.

[Asturias56]

Actually you're right :D- look at this early DC9-15 (N112PS) cockpit pic....................really basic!!



https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x688/dc9_15_2711cae8c27b144ad7a63f864212756024b7924f.jpg

[dixi188]

I think this maybe the front end of N929L in the Planes Plaza at Schipol

[Self loading bear]

I think this maybe the front end of N929L in the Planes Plaza at Schipol

Dixi is on the money two times. It is the DC-9-32 nose at Schiphol plaza.
KLM had a lot of those. But this particular one did never fly for KLM.
It is outside customs zone.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x758/img_9127_3224f832f6715953710b9aaa231ea6f4087df5c5.jpeg

[dixi188]

Another big one.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/563x407/what_cockpit_09_12_2023_cc80a9eabb984f206f47cd3d3ded69dc27bf 1757.jpg

[Asturias56]

Ahhhhh - pretty distinctive

only 1 built IIRC

[meleagertoo]

Brabazon.

[dixi188]

It is indeed the Bristol Brabazon.

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/470x433/pic_305c7b130cd525b5b3ac9d51c779219b3fecbc67.png

[thnarg]

Well from the photo it looks like a trimotor with fixed gear and no toe-brakes, built by a company that just loves rivets. Are the engine instruments set vertically for a reason?

As for the Brabazon, wouldn’t you have loved to have flown it, or at least heard one go overhead? Would have been an interesting type rating course (“today, the dreaded seven engine go around”) and I wonder if there are any Brabazon (or Princess) checklists in the public domain.

[dixi188]

tnarg,
I remember reading an article in an old TechAir magazine about the Princess. It had 2 flight engineers so that, with the un-reliability of the engines, the shutdown drills for one engine hadn't been finished before another engine had to be shut down. I believe on one flight 5 engines had to be shut down. Good job it had 10.
Dixi.

[dixi188]

Maybe a flying boat?

[Asturias56]

European?

[meleagertoo]

I'd dearly love to have flown the Brabazon - what boggles my mind is how the crew managed to get to grips with the necessary procedures of such a vastly complex aeroplane without a simulator or anyone to reach them how, but I suppose they would have regarded me in the same way I regard the children of the magenta line - a hopeless and unpractical aviator of stunted ability due to too much procedure, mollycoddling and automation. They certainly seemed adept at moving from one type to another and operating them just fine based on little more than first principles and airmanship. I think of 'Dixie' Dean being told, upon the outbreak of WW2, to take the prototype Beaufighter (was it?) from possible harm's way at Martlesham to Boscombe Down and he'd never even seen one before. He knew how to fly a twin and that was considered qualification enough. Figure it out for yourself, no pilot's notes and get a bloody move on! What an era that was!

thnarg, they loved rivets for a very good reason.

It is not a flying boat

It was European.

[Asturias56]

But the Beaufighter was just a tarted up Beaufort originally

And I'm not sure it was at Martlesham at the outbreak of the war - almost all the development flying was done at Filton I think

Back to the challenge - doesn't look British or German - so ... Italian?

[meleagertoo]

Not Italian.
One built.
It flew.

[thnarg]

they loved rivets for a very good reason
… because they were shipbuilders (Beardmore, Vickers, Blohm+Voss etc) or because they just loved doing metalwork (Junkers)?

[meleagertoo]

I imagine because that many rivets were needed.
They did like all-metal aircraft but weren't well-known outside their own country. Their output, which included some very good looking aircraft were mostly one-offs.

[Asturias56]

Not Italian.
One built.
It flew.

Not Italian - so French??

[Self loading bear]

Shot in the dark as inhale not found a cockpit photo:
Latecoere 4
It was a 3 engine plane and an early metal fuselage.

[Noyade]

Renard R.35?

[meleagertoo]

Noyade has it. Belgian pressurised airliner of 1935 - idiot test pilot took it out for first taxi trials, did one run and then took off strictly contrary to his instructions. He only got half way round the citcuit and that was the end of that. No cause was found but it was considered the aircraft was too complex for one pilot to manage.

[Noyade]

Cheers Mel.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x766/20231129_231253_36a5157ccd71479e04845228af292456d17744cc.jpg

[Asturias56]

N american?

[Noyade]

N american?

Yes...

[India Four Two]

Helio Stallion?

[Noyade]

Not from Helio.

[D26]

Cessna O-2A Skymaster, Cessna 337 (cvilian version)

[Noyade]

That's him.
Seen in the movie Bat*21 with Danny Glover (seen below) and Gene Hackman.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094712/

Over to you D26.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x684/20231129_231256_153d5c2a83e4a90795ea89ebc91e4f187a866a40.jpg

[D26]

My clues were split windscreen, the little window at left, retractable landing gear, the pilot wearing a military type flight suit.

Open house please.

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/609x429/screenshot_2023_12_10_at_15_41_05_78f63933f9b50604861e4080dd c5f558755e6804.png

[Asturias56]

Cunningly out of focus so we can't enhance the image to read the labels........... :(

However it looks like the word "Throttle" on the LHS of the cockpit??

looks very simple - a motorised glider or similar perhaps?

[meleagertoo]

Pretty good assessment.
I'm sure that label does say throttle.
The focus is as it came, not my doing!

[Asturias56]

looks seriously basic - no wireless or any naviads visible - European??

[UV]

Cunningly out of focus so we can't enhance the image to read the labels........... :(



Have you tried blowing it up?

[Asturias56]

Of course - the whole shooting match :ugh:

unless that's a cunning clew? :bored:

[UV]

Of course - the whole shooting match :ugh:

unless that's a cunning clew? :bored:

maybe I should have said have you tried inflating it…

[Self loading bear]

It has been a Good year with nice challenges.
merry Christmas and happy New Year

[Noyade]

Good year

Possibly the single-seat GA-468?


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x696/20231220_142136_42c2e6886ec4f844883ca72f797d2bbb1788e4c2.jpg

[Asturias56]

Oh my GOD!!

[meleagertoo]

No "possibly" about it - Noyade has it - the Goodyear "Inflat-o-plane" which actually worked quite well.

[UV]

Now see what I meant by blowing it up or inflating it !!

[Asturias56]

Wasn't sure you were serious - that's worse than the Submarine-plane we had earlier this year!!

[sycamore]

Perhaps not as bad as the `Durex Delta`,so named as made by the well-known `London Rubber Company` ,suppliers of `equipment` for responsible pilot`s `appendages,as safety equipment...! Tested at B-D for an Army requirement...

[Noyade]

Cheers Mel.
Only the tyres were inflated on this one...


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x819/scan1492_a517d18f1a6beb0bff9af65de7eb0decfb1b252f.jpg

[Self loading bear]

From the door/roof arrangement it could be a Globe Swift. But that comes in many cockpit layouts.

[Noyade]

Globe Swift.

That's him Bear. A 1946 version.
Over to you.

[Self loading bear]

Thanks Noyade,
How does it work?
Do the side windows slide down like a car?

Now this:
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/img_8970_3bea25300ac26f50762853d2eb9678679a82a76a.jpeg

[meleagertoo]

Farman Jabiru?

[thnarg]

What a nice flight deck - I think even I could fly it!. A classy French trimotor, so something like a Dewoitine? Does it have drop tanks (“largage reservoir”) or have I mistranslated?

[Self loading bear]

A bit later than the Jaribu.
Indeed French.
I think those 3 handles are to jettison the fuel, not the tanks!
But I think quite peculiar that it could jettison fuel? (this is not a clue, just a question).

[Asturias56]

Pre 1939?

[Self loading bear]

Pre 1939?

Yes
As far as I can see there are no French tri-motors post 1939.
(and less than 5 outside France)

[Noyade]

Do the side windows slide down like a car?

Yep.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/450x356/scan1493_fcac48a7a746e4f5859172709c6a6f3126bab81f.jpg

[thnarg]

I think those 3 handles are to jettison the fuel, not the tanks!
But I think quite peculiar that it could jettison fuel? (this is not a clue, just a question).

A bit of a stab in the dark, but the Lorraine-Hanriot LH70 had three “réservoirs d’essence largables”?

[Asturias56]

Breguet built a 3 engined bomber according to the list in Wiki.......

[Self loading bear]

Edit only just a bit later
Also a bit later than the Lorraine-Hanriot.
and Not a Bomber.

[meleagertoo]

Romano R6 or 16?

[Self loading bear]

Not the Romano.
The correct make has been named already.
Now the type

[Noyade]

The correct make has been named already.
Now the type

Breguet Br.393?

[Self loading bear]

Breguet Br.393?

Noyade has it with the Breguet 393!
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x1026/img_9238_8f16027ef86486baa1dc1ef70395099ec7b115d6.jpeg

[Noyade]

Cheers Bear!


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x1204/scan1496_9da089984d0ea3b0917e6865e0d8a7ed1fea5841.jpg

[Noyade]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x871/scan1497_945b2524a2cec0932d504b738a49351ee6b94e52.jpg

[Noyade]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x700/scan1498_a5faa499405501dac0287d9b91468d6c2f98d092.jpg

[Asturias56]

American perhaps?

[Self loading bear]

Anderson EA-1 Kingfisher??

[Noyade]

The Bear has it. :ok:

[Self loading bear]

Thanks Noyade
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1730x879/img_9292_082c8fa9f34b45d96bc6357767a9a5f9cc3b5671.jpeg

[Asturias56]

Blowing it up we have the words "Steam warning" "Engine Speed" and "Bomb att..." on the right

So English speaking

lets guess USA?


And it looks a bit smarter than WW1 so post 1925?

[Self loading bear]

Post 1925 not USA

[Asturias56]

well its probably a British bomber then ...................... time to dust off Masons "the British Bomber" for the new year anyway.....................

[Noyade]

time to dust off Masons "the British Bomber" for the new year anyway.....................

Aeroplane monthly is another good source. 👍

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/604x721/20240104_080743_4fb934ca084761c1f2dcbc3838803aa1b9538abe.jpg

[Asturias56]

Noyade - that key aero picture actually states the aircraft type!! "an unidentified Hendon" - a Fairey Hendon therefore -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mmVXHBWTnc

This article is a real in depth view https://www.key.aero/article/fairey-hendon-rafs-first-monoplane-bomber-depth

and me an ex-Fairey as well..............................

[Self loading bear]

The Fairey Hendon it was.
Take it away Asturias!

[Asturias56]

I think it's Noyade's - he posted the picture and the label..............

[Noyade]

Thanks - but I insist you take the helm A56, or declare open house. :)
I just remember seeing the cockpit layout in the July issue which I used for an external shot challenge in September last year.

Post #3718

https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/547101-what-cockpit-186.html

[Asturias56]

OK - sorry about the quality here - not much to go on

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/521x398/2023_12_24_161912_6d9c56df0b02fad8c3084ced0d1840a2865811b6.j pg

[thnarg]

Blimey, I need new glasses. A 4-engine prototype with a test pilot (or ghostbuster) in the right seat?

[meleagertoo]

That's a Viscount isn't it?

[Asturias56]

Not as many built as the Viscount - the images all seem to be taken form a single very grotty film AFAIK.

Yes - probably a test pilot in the RHS

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/715x494/2023_12_24_162940_499969282e9c41540529a7a8393c7f5b4efa18b7.j pg

[thnarg]

Bit of a guess… Lockheed Jetstar?

[meleagertoo]

British and civil?

[Asturias56]

Not a Jetstar and not British - I think only one flown.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/724x474/2023_12_24_163032_ce45c3c1da8852abb131540890f04ede0cb89efd.j pg

[sycamore]

Russian then....?

[Asturias56]

Could be , could be..............

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/316x337/2024_01_05_160850_68b11bbe7af5a552ef694576d38e89e756023440.j pg

[Noyade]

Tupolev Tu-80?

[Asturias56]

Not a Tupolev................... and faster than the Tu-80

I'm running out of awful cockpit photos................

[Noyade]

I think only one flown.

Next thought was to Google the Myasishchev M-50/M-52 since Wiki mentions only one flown, however only the M-50 flew and it had a tandem layout.
But your image appears on other sites - which claim is the Myasishchev 3M Bison-B. But this doesn't fit your clue?
See what ya think...


https://www.papermodelers.com/forum/design-threads/16150-myasishchev-m-50-scale-1-33-a-2.html


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x393/3m_captain_and_instruments_f51dad92df3be76c3f2befcf449166c0b f770c53.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x396/3m_captain_7f85d739f400e6b746e17b26a63eee680eaad0dc.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x398/co_pilot2tanker_bb9f6fea138ff9e84c3164305247f88928e4e434.jpg

[Noyade]

OK - sorry about the quality here - not much to go on

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/521x398/2023_12_24_161912_6d9c56df0b02fad8c3084ced0d1840a2865811b6.j pg

A lot of the instrumentation there matches the airwar.ru photo...



https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x473/3m_11_4903ed04603874e39dc738f25251fe9dc585aacb.jpg

And this must be the port "Lateral" observation blister (No.32) with the Fire control Officer/Engineer's downward ejection seat (No.33).


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x327/2023_12_24_163032_ce45c3c1da8852abb131540890f04ede0cb89efd_8 c7f06cb3d27a402f7b0a051c374330e0fbc60b1.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/467x384/scan1513_f3f4b0168769f0ff25842dcbc6ecce3ab7cf86c5.jpg


I rest my case - your honour. :)
Bison.

[Asturias56]

It is the M-50 - sorry if the pictures confused - there are a lot of M-52 / Alant pictures that are listed as M-50's and the same with Bisons - I thought I'd winnowed them all out.

The grotty pics come from a video that you can find on Utube which I guess is the only source

Noyade has it

[Noyade]

Cheers. I would dispute the YouTube's accuracy A56.

Back to the mundane. :)


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x621/scan1515_c3e1a972b41811bc5bfb8a00d53138cb33ed23a2.jpg

[Asturias56]

I'm not arguing about anything published about the M-50 - it was a Russian take on Valkyrie mission and about as successful

To the challenge

Looks pre 1960, I'd have said American but for the control sticks - so European?

[meleagertoo]

Is the semicircular thing tuned to Hilversum or Droitwich?
Looks just like my Granny's old radiogram!

[Asturias56]

max speed circa 150, two needle altimeter, all labels are in English when you use image enhancement, horrible fuel selector

no signs of anything to do with ordnance.

low performance private aircraft?

[Noyade]

Yes, a small two place light aircraft.
USA.
First flight in 1938.
Wiki says just over 1,200 built.
Various engines of 50-75 hp.
Famous well known manufacturer.