What Cockpit?

[Asturias56]

You're too generous ;) - that makes it a Piper J-4 I think - the side by side version of the Cub?

Open House if correct - I'm still searching grotty Russian videos

[Noyade]

Yes, you have it A56. :ok:
Period instrument panel of the Piper J-4 Cub Coupe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_J-4

A56 has declare Open House.

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/565x402/vvv_e893361160ee10faefb999f2b422c15a88dee2e7.png

[sycamore]

Hovercraft,or Ekranoplane...?

[meleagertoo]

Neither.

[Asturias56]

Doesn't look like a bomber - not much in the way of comms or engine instruments etc - maybe a radio operator and a flight engineer on board? I'd guess post war and maybe 4 engined looking at the overhead controls - but that's a lot of aircarft.......................

[sycamore]

Airship then...?

[meleagertoo]

I too have no idea about those weird controls but aeroplane it is,

[Asturias56]

I'd guess it s something that of which few were built - if it was something from Douglas, Lockheed or Bristol someone would have recognised it.

Is it American?>

[Self loading bear]

Big guess
TU -70 or Tu-75?

[meleagertoo]

Neither American nor Russian

Just found this clearer pic which makes the controls look even weirder! That's how you steer a buldozer which may be relevant as this thing evidently flew like one.
How they actually worked is anyone's guess.
9 built


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/752x557/screenshot_2024_01_13_at_13_35_33_6d35359742d97a23bb3958465b 8c3c2139b5e04e.png

[Asturias56]

Not American , not Russian and if it was British someone would have got in fby now. So .... French?

[Asturias56]

Actually the clue is there - top left F-BAVE - which Google tells me is an Sud SE 2010 -Armagnac

here is F-BAVH​​​​​​​

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x783/se_2010_armagnac_sageta_le_bourget_1957_5d709021508ab5976d1e 90582778a1ec0b2caa03.jpg

[meleagertoo]

D'uh oh! Silly me, that one might have run for a while had I not been asleep!

Asturias is in control.

[Asturias56]

embarrassingly I'd loaded it into the magic software and was playing about enlarging, edge finding etc etc when by accident I panned to the top left................... :ugh:
You're right - I'd never heard of it - looked good but as you say a dog.

Try this

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/290x445/2024_01_13_144103_b610db87e04a38515bb2183249d94659cd440d91.j pg

[Asturias56]

Lots of these built - in fact I have my doubts that any two now have the same panel

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/749x136/2024_01_13_143821_5f935714cee41d6664e52bb06dd8c68f642c5f65.j pg

[Asturias56]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/364x394/2024_01_13_143900_8b2310744c00dcebc763dda0d6687287c2494e46.j pg

[meleagertoo]

N7943Y

[Asturias56]

correct

and that is a ????????

but how did you get the registration? I thought I'd cropped it out:(

[meleagertoo]

Its a Piper PA30 Twin Commanche.

The reg isn't visible in your pic but I did a search for light aircraft control yokes and found a loop-style one as in your 15th Jan post for sale which was identified as from Piper, Grumman or somethiing else I forget. So I searched for Piper control yokes and found the pic of the more modern one, matched the layout and decals, then realised the hand and the Cessna in the background were the same, and finally spotted the reg!

Anyhoo, here's an old favourite of mine.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/554x227/screenshot_2024_01_20_at_16_05_39_11e0432a6101005af096ca80a9 fdb45951db487c.png

[Asturias56]

Yes - I think there are several hundred still flying - and just about everyone has different sets of instruments

The yoke - something else to cut out of the picture in the future!

Is the challenge American?

[meleagertoo]

Certainly is.

please don’t cut out the yokes, they’re sometimes a useful pointer but seldom a giveaway. In this case it was quite a search and but for the yoke I wouldn’t even have tried the challenge as there was nothing else to go on.

[Asturias56]

Not many questions were asked. - that would have narrowed the search down a bit.

as in - is the challenge single engined?

[meleagertoo]

This challenge is far from single engined...

[Asturias56]

American??

[meleagertoo]

Not American either

[Asturias56]

This challenge is far from single engined...

four engines?

[meleagertoo]

Oh dear - senility seems to have struck, I do apologise. I have been referring to a different pic to the one I posted!

To set the record straight it is American and it is single engined.

Oops!

[Asturias56]

Ahhh that does help!

[Asturias56]

think we need another picture

[meleagertoo]

This is another type with various styles of panel.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/659x429/screenshot_2024_01_27_at_12_59_53_2892016e080a85303832dfd1ac dc11dd483e9a28.png

[Asturias56]

Ah - I've seen that 6 pack bottom right somewhere before - and the lights are some sort of boost indication I think when I enlarge & enhance the image

is this a helicopter??

[meleagertoo]

Certainly no boost on this one, and the six pack looks all but identical to the five-pack on your recent PA30.
The twin-tacho is the dead give-eway that its a helo.

[Asturias56]

sorry I was referring to the set of 6 small gauges on the right

the yellow and green lights seem to have the words BOOST PRESS. and LOW and NORMAL when I invert the image and sharpen it in some image software...............

I guess its civilian not military?

[meleagertoo]

The engine is fuel injected. Boost lights indicate normal and abnormal fuel pressure.
There is a manifold pressure gauge on the panel, this variant is not supercharged.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/852x566/screenshot_2024_01_30_at_13_17_52_fe08b1879d9a7fe5a14e2e6e65 67a0253bba2098.png

[Asturias56]

Searching small US helicopter images it might be an Enstrom F28?

Haven't seen one in years................

[meleagertoo]

OK, I'll give you that though it's rather un-specific - as you have the info to give the full description.
Being non-supercharged it's a F28a. No other Enstrom panel looked remotely like this one.
Bloody good helicopters too.

[Asturias56]

Not a helicopter expert tbh - I always try and avoid them if possible - ;)

Nothing to hand - so Open House

[Noyade]

Apologies for centre-fold.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x596/scan1524_1bdfceb212e3be63460fd3a41ab4c90fefed3511.jpg

[meleagertoo]

Яковлев Як-38?

[Noyade]

'Хорошая работа!'
Back to you Mel.

[meleagertoo]

Спасибо


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/631x421/challenge_d717655bdde027021ea32aee733ec2b4f90fa12d.png

[Asturias56]

American twin?

[meleagertoo]

The twins are american. The airframe isn't.

[Asturias56]

More than 10 built?

[meleagertoo]

Just the one.
And sometimes described a "homebuilt" too but I think that's overstating the case. It appears to be a very competent looking piston twin indeed.
There's a strong clue to its cultural, if not immediately geographic roots in the pic...

Is there no-one but Asturias following this thread any more?
It's beginning to seem a bit of a monoculture here...

[thnarg]

Is there no-one but Asturias following this thread any more?
It's beginning to seem a bit of a monoculture here...

Don’t be lonely, mel, plenty of us are out here but we’re not much good with little cockpits!

It’s got a compass where the horizon should be, is that a gear lever outboard where RHS can’t reach it and at 0103 or 1303 the sun is quite low? Apart from that… huh?

[Asturias56]

Just the one.
And sometimes described a "homebuilt" too but I think that's overstating the case. It appears to be a very competent looking piston twin indeed.
There's a strong clue to its cultural, if not immediately geographic roots in the pic...

Is there no-one but Asturias following this thread any more?
It's beginning to seem a bit of a monoculture here...

I was starting to feel the same way..................

[meleagertoo]

This is not from a country known for manufacturing aircraft.

[Asturias56]

Is it in Europe?

[Shackman]

Is that a church tower in the distance?

[meleagertoo]

Upon review of this challenge I have concluded that it is too obscure to be found. There is next to nothing on the internet to aid sleuthing and very little info available. In order to revive this thread I declare open house.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/574x308/screenshot_2024_02_09_at_11_20_30_0536b6fb8bf73fbc1f3e57e0cb 3946a3b4d0da3f.png
Lithuanian "Homebuilt" Kensgalia VK9

I was surprised that no-one spotted the obviously Russian instrumentation though - that yellow centred one is unmistakable and the chaotic flight instrumentation layout is surely not Western.

[Asturias56]

Boy - that's a new one........................ doesn't look too bad from the outside. as for instrument panels there have been some real horrors on here from western companies - admittedly tho not on aircraft with long production runs

[Asturias56]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/395x476/2024_02_11_111322_97c1fde0871d04cc037772a8585baba3ced5502d.j pg

[meleagertoo]

Surely that'd be overly esoteric even in the Which Airfield challenge?

[Asturias56]

One thing I've learn't is never to underestimate the people on here - there are some who may be able to give the reggie number from that shot............................ and actually the airfield is a clew in itself

[meleagertoo]

I think at that rate I'll repost my Kensgalia photo in Which Airfield in the hopes that someone might identify the 'church tower', and maybe supply the vicar's name too!

[Asturias56]

I thought I'd get some trees in at the start..........

lets try another.................


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/479x244/2024_02_11_111709_2cc9a51e75e23dd3de06fcbdadade8e567b421e7.j pg

[asw28-866]

I have a feeling the aircraft in the background is a significant clue.

[Asturias56]

It might be but its not intended - I have no idea where that picture was taken.

[D26]

SAAB 29 Tunnan!
asw28-866 has the right feeling. Visible in the back is the tail and engine of the SAAB 21 pusher aircraft. This points to Sweden. I have not been able to find out which museum, however.

[Asturias56]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/371x357/2024_02_11_111433_cc636c56e875a7420a85403c222eaa560294aba4.j pg

can't comment yet

[Asturias56]

Yes it's the Torun - well done - as I said - you have to be very very careful what is in any challenge you post on PPRUNE - there's always someone who has been there, seen that....................

Over to D26 :ok:

[D26]

Thanks all. The SAAB 21 in the background was quite special, as it started off powered with a piston engine and later was converted to a jet engine. Had one of the first ejection seats for obvious reasons.

Open house, please!

[meleagertoo]

You wanted a bigger coskpit? You've got one!


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/567x417/challenge_51368d10fb3b4808fd927d911dc42a72b4f4e527.png

[Asturias56]

artistic.... looks like England's green and pleasant land?

and that 's a hell of a set of industrial window latches to port

also awful lack of instrumentation on the left side side - pre 1939??

[meleagertoo]

It does look rather English. Hampshire?
Post '39

[Asturias56]

Ahhh - that makes it a lot easier -

#1 Google British Aircraft Hampshire

#2 Assume it's something totally obscure

and we finish with the Cunliffe-Owen Concordia - an aircraft which has not graced my knowledge in times past. You learn something new on here every time!!
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/452x226/cunliffe_owen_concordia_1_2e567dead1fc480c2f29b850440c648f5c bb357e.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/417x598/2024_02_14_161911_2e8a5fd5761181019ff1c7feead5c00ff1e13f40.j pg

[BEagle]

Can we please restrict challenge submissions to actual cockpit photos only? No flight sim screenshots or manufacturer's artist's impressions!

[meleagertoo]

Inaccurate flightsim rubbish I entirely agree with, but what's wrong with manufacturer's artist's impressions? Would you object to a Munger drawing? If it's accurate I don't really see the problem, but I'll try to avoid them in future.

Anyhow, I gave that one away too easily but Asturias has the challenge.

[BEagle]

Actual photos only please! Nothing else.

[Asturias56]

I agree with meleagertoo - it was a nice change - and it's a very good drawing. After all people have but up silhouettes before in What Aircraft?

but it's OH - maybe someone else other than us two can have a go?

[Self loading bear]

Actual photos only please! Nothing else.

I kindly disagree, we are in the Nostalgia forum and this was an historic picture. I would not be surprised if it actually was a painted over black and white photograph. We have had drawings out of manuals before also original and historical.

For computer renderings of modern jets I completely agree with you!

[Noyade]

I like any medium.
Photo in this case...


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x663/scan1533_3d501d9ad945446ad1532978f39612e6f7c13e4f.jpg

[Asturias56]

that looks a bit rough - pre 1945 first flight?

[Self loading bear]

By the logo it could be a Aeronca.
Aeronca 9 Arrow?

[Noyade]

Yes, pre-1945. Wiki says the company went bankrupt in 1937.
Not from Aeronca.

[Asturias56]

Kinner went bust in 1937.........................

[Noyade]

Yes, they did...


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x410/scan1541_ce00dc5cbbf833c664cd3ded9e6576631915829e.jpg

[Noyade]

Moving on, the cockpit belongs to Walt Dobe's Kinner R-5 Playboy from northern California.
Open House.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinner_Playboy


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x708/scan1542_ae1ba99240d8e64d6847e6d5bc80c1f2c9f9619f.jpg

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/561x673/test_39ca4fec255730510c0deeb23aa4acdb401cdd93.png
B

[Asturias56]

first flight post 1945?

[meleagertoo]

Let's say right about then.

[Asturias56]

American?

[thnarg]

No idea what the aircraft is, but I wonder what that big lever by the F/O’s left knee operates. Something flying boaty or bombery?

[meleagertoo]

Neither floaty nor bombery but it does hail from N America. A bomber version was planned but not built.
As to that lever - who knows?
An oddball though, and the sole example flew commercially for many years. It now rests in restored splendour in a museum.

[Asturias56]

" It now rests in restored splendour in a museum."

thats my aim in life as well...................

burnelli cby-3 loadmaster perhaps?

[meleagertoo]

Strewth! I dind't expect...but with Asturias on scene no challenge is safe!
Too unconventional for anyone to dare to build it, but had they done so (or rather, build its predecessor) it is said it would have become one of the greats - perhaps eclisping even the DC3 which it comfortably outperformed. A ton more payload and a 700ft take off run!

[India Four Two]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1372x1024/cby_3_4f8d8138501358de53fb2d46fa8f1cead1496ba6.jpg

https://neam.org/pages/restoration-diary-burnelli-cby-3

[bafanguy]

As to that lever - who knows?

Total WAG: lock/unlock the tailwheel ?

[sycamore]

Emergency hydraulic system handpump...?

[Asturias56]

"but with Asturias on scene no challenge is safe!"

It was raining all day, I was doing a computer back up and it doesn't take a long time to work through Wiki's list of First Flights for a single year - especially when you know it's a twin, American & only one built..................... all the Hawkers, FIAT.s MiG's etc can just be ignored................................ and it isn't DC-4 or anything well -known.

And Burnelli is near the top of the list tho I did find it very hard to find a picture of the cockpit!.

Open House I'm afraid - I'm traveling this week

[dixi188]

Emergency hydraulic system handpump...?
Maybe a normal hydraulic pump to raise the landing gear? FO's most important job!.

[washoutt]

Did the DC-3 also not had a lever for pumping up the u/g?

[MrBernoulli]

Did the DC-3 also not had a lever for pumping up the u/g?
It did! As well as the flap and gear selector levers just to the left side of the co-pilots seat, and a gear lock lever on the floor between the pilot seats, there was also a standby hydraulic pump lever, again on the floor. It took considerable effort to operate.

If the use of the hydraulic pump lever was required, emergency or demonstration, we (a certain southern African military operator) found it less fatiguing if the non-flying pilot stood between the pilot seats, bent down and pulled the lever up, then pushed it back to the floor with a foot, bent down again and pulled the lever up etc etc, until the required job was done! Could be sweaty work on a hot day! 😉

[Noyade]

Wiki's list of First Flights for a single year

What a fantastic site. Many thanks for that.

Category:Aircraft by year of first flight - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Aircraft_by_year_of_first_flight)


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/550x773/20240226_070225_074ca8bb3acb085e5e1b6fe38a2e1ff2b22cfcb4.jpg

[sycamore]

Twin turboprop..?

[Asturias56]

Military?

[India Four Two]

Emergency hydraulic system handpump...?

sycamore wins the prize. I contacted the New England Air Museum about the CBY-3 cockpit photo.. They confirmed sycamore's guess.

[sycamore]

Ref #4094,looks rather `military` with multiple `rad/nav`gear,top left,oxygen ,bottom left,`speed-jeans bottom right?,nicely stacked engine instruments,AI+stby AI,,but no HUD,/Gunsight..Then we have a couple of trimmers for pitch and yaw,(Slightly `old-fashioned),carpets..? on the floor,and seat-pan,does`nt appear to have a recognisable `ejection `seat,and a couple of `grab-handles` on the canopy arch,normally on Naval aircraft,or fighters to assist in looking at `your six`..
Thought it might be an ov-10 or Convair Charger(can`t find pics of that),or a possible T-38/F5 rework for some countries,.Could be a Chinese/Indian/SA/NASA/Rutan experimental...? Can`t read the rudder pedals...?

[meleagertoo]

It certainly looks vary similar to the revamped civvy OH10 which was the direction I went in but have drawn a blank now.
Seat recessed for parachute and prop control visible so not a jet as suggested by lack of bang-seat
That would make it a twin turboprop COIN type aircraft w. single or tandem seating à la Pucara/OH10/Charger as suggested unless anyone's developed a high performance twin trainer for some reason. I found a pic of the Charger cockpit and this certainly isn't it - though contemporary.
Penny to a pinch of the proverbial it's a largely forgotten manufacturer's one-off demonstrator and it doesn't look militarily 'aggressive' at all to me.

[dixi188]

Looking at the engine instruments, they don't seem to be paired. Would this be some experimental aircraft with two different types of engine? Say, one turboprop and one jet.

[Noyade]

Military/civil applications.
Single turboprop.
Not many built.
Above is a two-seat version. The accompanying caption explains the large switches were designed for operation by a pilot wearing pressure suit gloves.

[sycamore]

Ahhh,that `Great Grob they use for towing the pressurised gliders to vast heights over the Andes...?

[Noyade]

The adjudicators have agreed to hand control to you Sycamore based on your answer above. :ok:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PwQZDqw9PA

[sycamore]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x1000/inkedstandard_retina_rymowiy6suyowykkjuql_front1_li_b12e16b6 f081efa80eec61e36b86308940455d76.jpg
Thanks N,sorry ,don`t seem to be able to correct roll....

[sycamore]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x1000/inkedstandard_retina_rymowiy6suyowykkjuql_front1_li_ff131edd 8895fcaa18bad9f13e73ed7268f0364c.jpg
Ther you are,ball back in middle,+6_-4

[meleagertoo]

Nice looking little toy.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/637x390/screenshot_2024_02_28_at_14_55_16_7ebbdaa17decc83e859179e7f5 6eea50522b088b.png
PZL M26 Iskierka

[sycamore]

Start your engine Mel; you have control.....
I had a 1.5 hr session flying N2610m Airwolf around the Boston(US) area about 20 yrs ago.It was a very neat,well thought out and comfortable aircraft,easy to fly,even if people spoke about it being made from the `Seneca parts bin`,even so,handling and aeros were good for a `slabwing`,but 300 hp helps...The one I flew came back to Poland about 18 months ago,across the `Pond`...Several videos on u-tube...

[meleagertoo]

Well, with a ponderous grinding, some spitting and farting, lots of smoke and oil and each cylinder lighting up in turn this one fires up...
Well known manufacturer.
(love that gas-pedal starter!)


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/633x423/screenshot_2024_03_01_at_12_25_51_7a9b01f8cb8b3f0296bdaffb0f 822d5e8039916c.png

[meleagertoo]

Builder better known for much bigger aircraft than this 2 seat light bomber.

[Asturias56]

American?

[Ombinda]

Mr (or Mrs?) Google led me on a merry walkabout through the interwebs but "2seat, tandem seating, single engine bomber" led me to: Northrop A-17

[meleagertoo]

As American as apple pie.

[India Four Two]

North American, as in manufacturer?

[Asturias56]

I think Ombinda has it.......................

[Asturias56]

Is Obinda correct?

[meleagertoo]

Sorry guys, my post of several days ago confirming Obinda's deduction seems to have vanished - he is quite correct.

Obinda has control.

[Ombinda]

Sorry guys and gals, only saw this now.
Will search for something suitably esoteric and post asap.

[Ombinda]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/444x490/whazzit_08478e44fd70c43b8196f1c8ab29bcf59e9ae2d5.jpg

Hope this meets the criteria?

[Self loading bear]

Mooney M20?

[Ombinda]

Very far from the mark.

[Self loading bear]

I Think we need another clue or photo.
edit: just saw the what aircraft challenge.

[Noyade]

Hmmmm...would it therefore be the Atlas Angel...?

[Ombinda]

Hmmmm...would it therefore be the Atlas Angel...?

Ding Ding!

[Noyade]

Cheers!


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x647/capture_70502e722ede905a95553bed127f171cea9517ee.png

[Self loading bear]

He doesn’t seem to be very happy….

[sycamore]

Something from B Rutan...?

[Noyade]

Something from B Rutan...?

Yes. :)

[Ombinda]

Yes. :)

Scaled Composites ARES?

[Noyade]

Scaled Composites ARES?

:ok:
Shot down in Iron Eagle III.
All yours Ombinda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj9OVCk2InI

[Ombinda]

Could not have done it without your guess, so you have it sycamore.

(And a bit busy at the moment)

[sycamore]

Thanks OM,but got nothing at the moment so,OPEN HOUSE..

[sycamore]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1400x1119/2019_10_02_212425_hap__162f03f789aadcd9dc18bbff16ffe9f19cb96 f74.jpg
Just found this...

[sycamore]

Seems like Ican`t delete the second one,so it`s a 2-for-one bargain...

[Self loading bear]

Seems like Ican`t delete the second one,so it`s a 2-for-one bargain...

select the Go advanced mode when in editing

[sycamore]

TVM ,SLB...!!..

[meleagertoo]

'tis a Gladiator forsooth!

[sycamore]

Actually,it`s more `sore-tooth` when you start the Mercury,with much `grinding and `squeaking`,until it runs smoothly,oil pressure is high,then falls to normal as the temperature rises...Then in flight it `purrrss`,like a big cat sleeping...
Any way,here we are returning from Mildenhall 9/6/84,and a photo session en-route; bit of a grey day ,and the engine is well known to get carb icing,if you reduce power without carb heat..been there,done that..!
copy/wrt/Vines/Davies..,,,You have control...
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1527/2019_10_07_152352glad_old_warden_d57abb20650113b05cb5d9771f0 99c2ae06a7a47.jpg

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Is that Dickie Martin there ?

[sycamore]

OUA,sadly it`s not...it`s me..however..
3 yrs earlier,a conversation with DM went something like this..amidst much smoke from his pipe..
DM;`Now laddy,have you read all the Gladiator`s Notes...?
Me; `Yessir`, (respect for a Wg.Cdr(rtd)....
DM,now accompanied by JohnLewis(CTP R-R,and Dep CP SC);;;`A few questions then..Speeds??engine limits????carb heat..??etc,etc...More smoke,like the Pope`s chimney,and non-audible conversation between DM and JL..
DM...`Right Ho`..Go and get airborne,do some stalling,some aerobatics-No negative `G`,Practice display,and a circuit to land..Don`t forget the carb-air!!`Fly it like a Tiger Moth`...
And so off I went into the `Wide blue Yonder` It`s not like a T-M,more like a 900 hp Stampe ;so then we` have to land,and of course `everybody`,engineers,pilots,staff,photoggies,are all watching,waiting,as `we` land on all 3 wheels,no bounce ,skip or hop,run straight,and taxi back in to shutdown,,,(You do land it like a T-M).
DM..`Well done, old boy...You can take it to the Staverton Air Display next weekend,OKAY..`.
Me,`Yessiirr`...(how to go from `laddy` to `old boy` in one flight...)

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

How splendid.... The Autair Operations Office was always full of smoke, one really needed an instrument rating to work in there - DM being a major contributor along with Maurice (Have you got a light Old Boy ?) Rowan.

[sycamore]

I flew on an Autair Viking airtest after an engine change at Luton; It was -AGRW, and Capt Rowan was in charge...I was just a bit of `ballast` in the back..

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/784x510/screenshot_2024_03_30_at_10_24_51_30a39f2183ed65cdc963ef4b32 51d47d3bde545e.png

[Asturias56]

Well when we get the museum we'll get the aircraft..................

Is that a Beech in front of the challenge?

[Self loading bear]

Helicopter on the right looks like a SA330

[sycamore]

A Puma and a VampireT55...does it have `wobbly wheels`...? Shorts `Shed`...?
Assume it`s high wing,with engine controls in roof...

[India Four Two]

Overhead power levers. Is this a flying boat?

[meleagertoo]

Not a flying boat.
High wing.
What are 'wobbly wheels'?

[sycamore]

Go up/down,usually on command....

[meleagertoo]

Ah!
No, wigid wheels.

[Asturias56]

half teh world seem to have used the Vampire T55 :{

[meleagertoo]

I think that correlating a nation to its museum exhibits is a policy fraught with pitfalls, else followiing a visit to Duxford you might think the UK had operated SR71, U2, Pukara and Focke-Achgelis types...
The nation that built this type never operated Vampires anyway though some of the several countries it was exported to did. This pic is from one of those.

[Asturias56]

I think that's wise advice - this museum seems to also have a very early aircraft top left - it's clearly an eclectic collection. Tho' I'd guess unlikely to Warsaw Pact.

The challenge looks pretty austere - so I'm guessing not from the USA?

[Noyade]

half teh world seem to have used the Vampire T55 :{

Or is it the T.11?
Assuming it is - and assuming this is a military aircraft museum that used all the aircraft depicted over a period (the T.11, Beech and Puma) - one common denominator for all three - is Mexico.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x143/scan1582_ec590d2b62ab91a64bacffb738dbbff6b85d4dab.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x129/scan1580_0731568609d47e4fdce406625abd490ea10190e9.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x78/scan1581_4e546fba08daffba86946e4380f652a747a7ed7d.jpg

Looking at Mexico's inventory (1973), it lists four high-wing aircraft - the Mitsubishi MU-2, Britten-Norman BN-2, IAI-201 Arava and the Catalina. We know it's not a flying boat.

[Asturias56]

the Mexican AF have a museum - but it I can't see a full list of aircraft

[thnarg]

the Mexican AF have a museum - but it I can't see a full list of aircraft
Well, they have one of these…
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1111/img_4503_a4feca7e104a115261f886a25e9da946c043a241.jpeg

[Asturias56]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - I'd forgotten all about those...................................

nice polish on it mind!

[dixi188]

I had ruled out anything powered by PT6s as they normally have three sets of engine controls and I can only see two in the photo.

[bafanguy]

If it's a fixed gear airplane, what is that lever on the overhead panel just above and left of the left throttle ?

[Asturias56]

seems hard to find a manual or a diagram

[thnarg]

If it's a fixed gear airplane, what is that lever on the overhead panel just above and left of the left throttle ?
Looks like the fuel system schematic and there’s a lever for each engine, each in a different position.

[meleagertoo]

Some intrigueing sleuthing going on here - but what aircraft is the challenge cockpit from?

[Noyade]

Some intrigueing sleuthing going on here - but what aircraft is the challenge cockpit from?

The Arava in a Mexican museum.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x574/scan1583_03bc9589e5d845d18bb132afc4debe5ba84f0de0.jpg

[bafanguy]

Looks like the fuel system schematic and there’s a lever for each engine, each in a different position.


Ah so...you have a sharp eye, Sir (or Madam as the case may be).

[meleagertoo]

Over to Noyade.

[Noyade]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x543/h_47_13ea08d35c41ff8a9a3b4c297d58923d6fcf4cb4.jpg

[Asturias56]

European?

[Noyade]

No, USA.
This machine was flown by General Fechet and Captain Eaker.

[ea200]

So a Loening Amphibian?

[Noyade]

No.
It was General Fechet's aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Fechet

[meleagertoo]

It's a Curtiss O1C Falcon.
The swept screen, fairing and distinctive twin rigging wires...

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/665x234/screenshot_2024_04_07_at_10_05_08_8e4c7406a074686c94501c4279 8c050a7d07a506.png

[Noyade]

That's him. Over to Mel.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/596x730/falcon_3a3ba4dd80684081149b06d828369746941fd3fe.png

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x523/curtiss_01_c_lukgraph_special_edition_d3f8a83641c11519cc26f6 7db64dfca218c65ccc.jpg

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/167x132/challenge_28156bd9e69b6035ee0a637d87b4ab59c64d6c37.png

[Noyade]

"The war's largest plane never flew." - Nowarra.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens-Schuckert_R.VIII


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x637/40_1_9eb3cfb8a81ad4464e56b938880c8131cfa6d5f2.jpg

[meleagertoo]

Back to Noyade.

[Noyade]

Open House 🏠

[India Four Two]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1429/wc_2024_04_11_dd71bd660e25c688f48282baebf6648b4b70d0cc.jpeg

[Asturias56]

Blowing up the photo I can see a possible reg # 6677 in top centre of the dashboard

The USAAF had aB17 44-6677 but its not that

and there was an N-6677 which was apparently a mid -70's BOWLING BENSEN GYROCOPTER Rotorcraft (?*I|?) and it doesn't look like that.

some of the military sites show several F-16's numbered with 66's and 77's but its not that either.

N American?

[Asturias56]

Mach number dial up to Mach 1 - so subsonic - ish - probably a post war jet?

the Museum has a 25 year certificate of some sort on the wall on the right

no armament seems to be operable from the cockpit - so a trainer?

In fact nothing in the way of radar at all - so two seat? day time only?? pretty basic

[Ombinda]

Is this in the National Museum of ASAF?

[meleagertoo]

Pretty sure that's a C82a (not a C119) on the left and that narrows it down considerably so Wright Paterson seems the most likely location as the other museums exhibits don't fit the colour scheme but the hangar doesn't look right.
Challenge aircraft is an early-ish twin engined jet possibly prototype or experimental as Asturias has surmised.
Two RPM gauges most unergonomically sited are calibrated 0 - 90 which os presumably 9,000RPM which makes little sense, even the early Goblins made 12-14,000 or so.

[BSD]

How about the Bell XP-59A Airacomet?

[India Four Two]

Interesting speculation chaps. You're collectively on the right track, but it's not the Airacomet.

Here's an external clue:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/166x102/wc_2024_04_12_follow_up_9685c335fdb23df52c6dc3a1d8db30b7b848 25b1.jpeg

[Asturias56]

Bloody great flaps alright - and on the cockpit dial they go out to 30 degrees at least..... was that the experiment they were carrying out?

that looks like a US star on the top wing so defo American I guess

[Self loading bear]

Pretty sure it is Hagerstown aviation museum.
But that is one of the poorer websites on their collection.

[Noyade]

Northrop X-4 Bantam.

[Self loading bear]

Yes, so much for my Hagerstown story.
i will humbly get back in my hut.

[India Four Two]

Yes, it's the Bantam.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1150x764/northrop_x4_bantam_3bf02e25b477e2885dd1793256902bda70289195. jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_X-4_Bantam

Noyade has control.

[Asturias56]

damn - N -6676............................. need better software - or better eyes....................

[Noyade]

Cheers India.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/350x490/scan1587_e48193659dd31c1b34bf4164bd358a6aa61522dd.jpg

[Asturias56]

a glider?

[sycamore]

Looks distinctly painful....

[Noyade]

Not a glider.

[Asturias56]

Autogyro?

[meleagertoo]

Is it a BD5?

[Noyade]

Not a gyroplane, nor from Bede.

[Noyade]

Only one built.

[Asturias56]

I'm not surprised - American?

[sycamore]

Is it the `slew-wing` X-?? jobba...?

[Self loading bear]

Is it the `slew-wing` X-?? jobba...?

The X-wing was not an X-plane….
But it had the same difficult stick handling:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/126x141/img_9868_4ba28e721f97aa9974b1bb261bc1f544dee28e67.jpeg

[Noyade]

Is it the `slew-wing` X-?? jobba...?

Hey sycamore. I've spoken to the judges and they're all in agreement that it's a classic case of ''we know what you meant."
Punch in "slewed-wing" and you get "oblique-wing" and you get the AD-1.

So, over to you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_AD-1


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x632/nasa_ad_1_with_research_pilot_richard_e_gray_bb7aa72f15e73eb b67a1a23ed16a7ccef01373dd.jpg

[sycamore]

Thanks N,now try this...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1667/2019_10_02_211549_ae53bca5b49fec07cc71560a113f13f305169658.j pg

[D26]

Is it a Grumman XTBF-1 "Avenger"?

[sycamore]

`Strictly` speaking,not the XTBF-1....However it is a TBM -1/1C,/Tarpon,/Avenger 1/II....and now a real one...
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1626/2019_10_04_112048_fat_charlie_ed5187cad40b8dee9f4835f8b6c39b 371225d5e7_0c524036dc2325de0fa5d82787213e928b9152f3.jpg
You have control D26...they are pretty heavy...!!
This is actually a TBM-3R...But close enough for Govt.Work..

[D26]

Lots of levers and cranks. Interesting the "fine" RPM indicator with 2 pointers, one for the hundreds and one for the thousends!

Open house, please.

[sycamore]

No.`2` is the prop pitch control,rotated to increase/decrease as a `vernier` adjustment to the `coarser setting of RPM pushing it `in/out`..

[sycamore]

OK,another one for the weekend......
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/944x720/img_0042_z326_96d9040dfead36c3ecbbc35cd934a0b116babf24.jpg

[India Four Two]

Based on the metric altimeter and the rotatable ring around the top instrument, eastern European? Possibly Czech?

[sycamore]

Possibly....

[Asturias56]

Well all the signs are in French and top right is a reg sticker beginning with F - possibly F-BN?? - and that takes us to a Zlin TrenerMaster I think..............

[BEagle]

Zlin 326 Trener Master indeed! The image title rather gives it away!

[sycamore]

Bingo Beags...what-a mistaka-to maka..!! You have control....

Much nicer aircraft than a Chippy or a `Dog`...

[BEagle]

Having flown all 3, I would agree sycamore!

MUCH nicer than this thing, which almost killed my brother's god father:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/527x535/piccy_9263d2705c14384bf5f04f90cdb7cc8bfdd9a0f8.jpg

[Asturias56]

Bingo Beags...what-a mistaka-to maka..!! You have control....

Much nicer aircraft than a Chippy or a `Dog`...
I never checked :(

[Asturias56]

remarkably few interior photos of this challenge considering several hundred were built


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/268x307/2024_04_21_155351_720b74ff7992fe9cdd7d394596b109907b48eae1.j pg

[sycamore]

Hawker or Fairey...?

[BEagle]

Neither!!

[Asturias56]

Looks like Beagle know what it is

[BEagle]

Asturias56, I was referring to the photo I posted having been handed control by sycamore.

I'm not sure why you also posted a photo?

[meleagertoo]

It's a Boulton-Paul Defiant

[Asturias56]

regretfully it isn't - somewhat larger.....................

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/276x182/hdhjjfjffj_92ee8bf8b0677853051f773285ca4adc44090099.jpg

[Asturias56]

Asturias56, I was referring to the photo I posted having been handed control by sycamore.

I'm not sure why you also posted a photo?


Because I got there first?

My post naming the Zlin was at 08:42 -yours was later - I thought your post and picture at 10:32 referred to refered to the chat about your father...............

Sycamore seems to have made an error - apologies..........................

[Asturias56]

To avoid dissension I withdraw my challenge - which is a Vickers Warwick - and we revert to the Challenge at #4214

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x720/maxresdefault_63b1883cccdbdc0ed35f537b1372a0e4bb343d17.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/258x195/fshghghdhgdjh__e6358a10acd03435d13b3dc12eff564d3fcd8cbb.jpg

[BEagle]

meleagertoo, you are correct! You have control!!

My brother's god father was in the Fleet Air Arm and was flying a rather aged Defiant target tug later in the war. Trying to stay behind a Swordfish (or 'b****y old Stringbag' as he called it) on approach to somewhere or other, he stalled it and nearly went into a spin, but was just able to recover in time!

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/343x230/screenshot_2024_04_23_at_13_36_06_5a2283e5cf6e6d861fb6b97c15 57dd3097bb3721.png

[sycamore]

4-SEATER,...American...?

[BEagle]

de Bruyne DB-2 Snark - rather an unpleasant aeroplane by all accounts!

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/334x151/snark_bb1f7b8b8dedc9ffc133af3999faccde1785a364.jpg

[meleagertoo]

Beagle scores again.

[BEagle]

Thanks, meleagertoo!

Here's one for you all:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/499x386/24_apr_a45d99ea12c54ce383753524144847585095f1c0.jpg

[kenparry]

British, fighter(ish), 1960s, 2 engines, 4000lb/side fuel: but not a Javelin or a Scimitar. A bit later perhaps with that primary attitude indicator?

[D26]

First flight 1951. There is a naval connection!

[meleagertoo]

That's a Sea Vixen

[BEagle]

Indeed it is! meleagertoo, you have control!

The first miltary aircraft in which I flew was a 'Vixen! I was in the observer's 'coal hole' of an 892 Sqn aircraft....during the RN's 1966 Farnborough Air Show display. OC892 being a family friend achieved that!

[meleagertoo]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/558x368/challenge_5525df1f9baf531b5957738ac35c32f0c796318c.png

[D26]

The picture has been on the forum before, I think about October 2019. It's the cockpit of an Avro 701 Athena.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/474x266/th_3115257582_50a7f65f141774cf053e886063eeb4d29db19de3.jpg

[meleagertoo]

D'uh-oh!

D26 - all yours.

[D26]

No worries! Still an interesting subject.:)
Open House please!

[meleagertoo]

Well, at risk of monopolising the thread, try this one.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/525x437/cockpit_copy_0d50fa867cd17608c526cae1e3183149b6d46d6d.png

[Asturias56]

European?

[BEagle]

Det er dansk!

[meleagertoo]

Well?

[BEagle]

KZ.111

[meleagertoo]

Beagle's uncanny nose smells it out yet again!

Over...

[BEagle]

Thanks, meleagertoo!

Try this one:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/621x576/28th_april_9c9862f5829b6ea257dc3ca0930435608460cacf.jpg

[sycamore]

Something from `Douglas`,.....Skyray...?

[BEagle]

Not from Douglas!