What Cockpit?

[Asturias56]

Gamera II human-powered helicopter??

[Self loading bear]

That’s the one
Gamera HPH
Asturias has control

[Asturias56]

Weird!!! - this is more conventional


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/172x293/2019_12_16_131432_8d7f8a5af1aa05d55b5e28a33d000d9fb85706bb.j pg

[UV]

Early Falcon 20?

[Asturias56]

No - something a bit larger................

[MReyn24050]

No - something a bit larger................
An fantastic aircraft I have flown many hours. The Vickers VC10.

[Asturias56]

It is a VC-10 - the biggest cockpit I've ever seen - you could hold a barn dance in it - I presume the space was for the Butler and other staff?

Over to you

[MReyn24050]

Thank you Asturias56. When I said " have flown many hours" I should add flown in it as a passenger for many houris..

Here is the next one:-
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x540/pprune25_d3506454fcddeab12849fb5becc73f1b004c0967.jpg

[India Four Two]

In an effort to narrow it down, is it German?

[MReyn24050]

Yes Simon it is German

[India Four Two]

Thanks Mel. It was the impossible long words below the throttle quadrant and of course, the Links/Rechts on the Turn and Slip ( ;) ) that made me think of Germany!

It looks like the copilot is expected to be stronger than the captain!

[sycamore]

No pic. at #1258

AH,ok NOW

[Asturias56]

Pre or post WW2?

[sycamore]

How about the Ju-52,twin not 3m....?

[MReyn24050]

Pre or post WW2?

This aircraft first flew pre WW2.

How about the Ju-52,twin not 3m....?

Not the Ju 52

[sycamore]

We`ll try the Ju-86 then....??

[Self loading bear]

Could be a strong contender,
I also looked at it and if this cockpit photo is on the internet, then it is well hidden!

[MReyn24050]

Could be a strong contender,
I also looked at it and if this cockpit photo is on the internet, then it is well hidden!

Not the Ju 86. This aircraft was later developed into one of the main bombers of the Luftwaffe

[Asturias56]

Ju-88? looks possible OH if correct

[MReyn24050]

Ju-88? looks possible OH if correct
This one is not the Ju 887

[Self loading bear]

The early civil production of the Heinkel H-111 “Doppel Blitz”

I could only find this photo of a Flightsimulator cockpit.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/661x472/2367596c_8b76_4cd9_aa2c_ebd980620370_f910372424e3b57cd68580c dae1413eb01fbb161.jpeg

[MReyn24050]

You have it SLB it was indeed the He IIIC. The He 111 C-0 was a commercial version and took the form of the V4 prototype design. The first machine was designated D-AHAO "Dresden". It was powered by the BMW VI engine

[Self loading bear]

Thanks MReyn,

Were can find your cockpit picture?

Now this:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/954x603/7e73653c_ba85_4c89_8722_be6f12017af4_ff303c2334e6fe3e723b6a1 7e8fee107505880de.jpeg

[Asturias56]

Lot of helicopters outside Bear - is it a wingless wonder?

[Self loading bear]

Wingless????
This information would be X-rated!

[Asturias56]

piasecki x-49 a speedhawk perhaps?

[Self loading bear]

Not the X-49
The total of wings is correct.
The X is not referring to the type designation

[evansb]

Mil Mi-38 ?

[Self loading bear]

As you are no winning regular as in “has won in the last week”
I herewith give you control.
It is the Mil Mi-38.

[evansb]

Thank you. Here is the next challenge:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/457x377/4litgke_6ddcace232f6e8420bc16104a2b5e9c1e30d48aa.jpg
A.K.A....

[India Four Two]

It looks like a wooden glider cockpit, but the wings seem to extend in front of the cockpit. Is this one of the Horten delta-wing gliders?

[evansb]

"Delta-wing"? Hmm. Not really. You tell me. The blue is a clue.

[evansb]

Construction comprised plywood cockpit and fabric (linen doped) wings. Yes, the construction is particularly robust, as can be seen by the elevon/ailevon connecting rods from the base of the joy-stick.

VNE was 130 knots.
Best Glide ratio was around: 1:28.5 @ 55 mph/ 48 knots.

[evansb]

Simon of "India Four Two" fame is sure to get this challenge. He soars above the Livingston Range, west of Cowley, from late March to mid August. He is probably enjoying a steaming hot bowl of Pho in "Nam" right now. We can only covet.

[India Four Two]

Fauvel AV.36? However the specs you quoted don’t match.

I wish I was in Saigon. I looked out of the window to see yet more snow. We’ve had a whole winter’s worth and it’s only the equinox!

bri, please see my PM.

[evansb]

Blue is a clue, as is the lovely sculpted step nose fuselage-to-cockpit. Fauvel? This mystery bird had no tail.

[India Four Two]

This looks promising:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x785/345b0f36_8529_45d6_86d1_647185b01489_e521861281847266cc6c55d 352d4fed589377442.jpeg

[evansb]

Correct! The Argentinian FMA I. Ae-34 "Sun Ray". A Horten XVa swept-wing tail-less design. One and Two-place models (with a step cockpit),were produced. Simon clearly has control.
https://i.imgur.com/Cv5Dk9L.jpg

[evansb]

Yes indeed! The Cowley Ridge:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/kndtyr0_7509593e92ed2f390666fff4183a8ae8b65829f1.jpg

[India Four Two]

I would have loved to have flown that! Imagine if Horten had designed it with a reclining cockpit, although it looks like he still would have needed to keep some fin area.

I don't get the Cowley connection. Here's a view for those not familiar with the Livingstone Range at Cowley, AB:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1018x536/livingstones_from_c_gnim_2c74a4db5d5a5cdec3004e3847be411b93a e9043.jpg


Nothing to hand so Open House.

PS Initially, I thought those robust elevator connections were control locks!

[evansb]

Thank you, Simon, for the crisp photos of the magnificent Alberta Rockies.

Here is another cockpit challenge:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x634/gnyyv5s_fd20ec466d1dec2347e6499b1f1fe0e48ba73b52.jpg

[asw28-866]

Nothing finer than a spot of rock polishing in a sailplane! Noticed the rectangular windows on the starboard nose, and thought Lockheed Hudson?

[asw28-866]

Though our mountains are somewhat less ambitious...

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x524/180819boa_4_ss_df339fcf819e65603808475c2e98c718ac74248c.jpg

[evansb]

asw28-866 is correct. An RAAF Lockheed Hudson. Your mountains are beautiful non-the-less. You have control.

[asw28-866]

Gosh, thank you. Have not been successful at the challenge for years. Easy one for a hot smoky Monday, fastest I've been at work!

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x524/041219bn_2_s_92e36210873b471366a6ffb507253c585741cae6.jpg

[asw28-866]

And at the time, the highest I had been at work...

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x933/030219bnss_b4ed2c0c3248699f3624a7d6432e695760017ca1.jpg

[asw28-866]

The whole cockpit...
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x496/panela_d895aa5f662261b1423603b5a690123a690b98c8.jpg

[dixi188]

Cessna Citation?
Drop down window on the left.
No idea which model.

[asw28-866]

dixi188 is closing in, Cessna Citation line is correct. Spanning almost 50 years of production, and over 20 model derivatives, I suggest perhaps a little more refinement required before medals are awarded?

Here is what our cockpit looks like from the back...
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x524/cabin_97d2d3a6e18d0203d56cd2992d62bb30c4e477cc.jpg

[asw28-866]

Yes KSKG I suspect you are right, C560 Ultra it is, you have control.

[Self loading bear]

With 2 posts you probably can’t

Are allowed to private message ?
​Send me pm and I will post for you,

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

No, can’t do that either. This is a most unsatisfactory place.

[Self loading bear]

Yes you have to get beyond 10 post to get those privileges.
but this way we are already up to four.
I assume you have read my pm to you?
will send you mij email by next pm.

[evansb]

Here is a British Commonwealth Boxing Day mystery cockpit challenge:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/650x373/mdixwda_c488fb76c86df69133ba0bcb0b5df6b4ef26e276.jpg

[Senior Pilot]

No, can’t do that either. This is a most unsatisfactory place.

Since you have deleted 20 of your 21 posts to date, you can hardly blame PPRuNe for your posting restrictions. :hmm: Should you want, let me know and I will undelete them and give you an adequate post count to aid future contributions from you :ok:

[BSD]

Seasons greetings everyone!

Bede BD5-J?

BSD.

[evansb]

Close but no cigar.

[evansb]

Boxing Day? Hint. Anyone? Precisely! Why would a glider/motor glider have an ADF? Going on vacation? Yup! The mystery cockpit is that of the BD-2. A record setting aircraft. Open house.


http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/bede_bd-2.jpg

I was betting on 'India Four Two' correctly identifying this one. Oh well. Merry Christmas!

Performance

Cruise speed: 156 mph (251 km/h, 136 kn) at max takeoff weight, 108 mph (94 kn, 174 km/h) at 2,200 lb (998 kg)
Stall speed: 62 mph (100 km/h, 54 kn) at 1,900 lb
Never exceed speed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds#Vne): 194 mph (312 km/h, 169 kn)
Range: 20,500 mi (33,000 km, 17,800 nmi) estimated, still air
Endurance: 120 hr (estimated)

[India Four Two]

Sorry to disappoint you Bri - I had never heard of it. When I saw the picture, I immediately thought the SGS-2-32's ugly sister and I was right.

Between November 7 and 10, 1969, the aircraft set a world closed-circuit flight distance record for piston-engined aircraft, in which it covered 8,973.38 miles (14,441.26 km) in 70 hours 15 minutes.

70 hours in a two-seat* glider - the mind boggles!

* Correction - it was a single seater! I thought the FAI had banned endurance flights - they certainly did with gliders.

[Jamesel]

At least Bede used the aft seat, which is a bit wider than almost all other gliders. The 2-32 is certified to carry 3 people, pilot in front, with two (up to 300# total) in that back seat. The type was used for rides/aerobatic rides at a lot of American glider companies. The sole Canadian one used to be at York soaring, & used for rides & spin training, but is now privately registered.

[Self loading bear]

OH I understood?
Complete cockpit in view.
No close-up of ashtrays or autopilot screen available.
This is a remake.
More nostalgic photos available

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/684x510/2f634681_16d6_4745_8eac_2f00aa9ffbfa_efb89fa79d2c5ad92c5718a 72ee9486182aa584d.jpeg

[Motleycrew]

What an interesting thread

[Asturias56]

It is a thread full of gentle folk who have no agenda, and who peacefully graze the airways, under the beneficent guiding hand of the Mods of course, without any reference to current politics or past grievances.

Welcome to our land of tranquility................

[Asturias56]

Bear - I take it there IS an aeroplane attached to that garden chair? And we're after the aeroplane and not the chair ID :ok:??

OK - does it have an engine?

[Self loading bear]

No engine
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/431x294/51d2e2e6_360c_4599_8a5f_d7f2f02e5c7b_1b450d8c3b54d79e7917bb4 2278976b1524ee24c.jpeg

[Asturias56]

looks like something from Karl Wilhelm Otto Lilienthal........ but he didn't use plastic chairs

Googling Kite Gliders brings up post #1315 picture as the Platz 1923 https://elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/1923-platz-glider-simplicity-perfection/

But I guess your picture is of a new build version?

[Self loading bear]

The Reinhold Platz glider it is.
Simplicity at extremism.
Rebuild in America under Wau!
WAU (http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/flugtag/flugtag_miami_2003.htm)
I could not find prove it actually flew, so the Platz was were we were looking for.

Asturias you have control.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/300x225/9c6f158c_f5af_4486_b392_c19c6209c606_ec442ec93a74c041cbcdd07 95b2b7d9054f45362.jpeg

[Asturias56]

Hmm try again - post went missing

Good link Bear - some brave men out there!!

This won't last long...................

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/205x401/2019_12_28_183414_83ca93550aaf5309e909f37ee8a424dd2a4739fd.j pg

[sycamore]

At a guess a Short`s Shed.....?

[BSD]

Oh my Lord, it's the Handley-Page Dart Herald!

Utterly brim-full of confidence in my answer, but sadly not at home to find a suitable challenge, may I declare "Open House" in reply?

lovely plane to fly, but an ergonomic nightmare, especially for the F/O.

BSD

[Asturias56]

It is indeed the Herald - I think it may be the one at the Air Museum in Berkshire

Open House declared

[evansb]

Here is the next mystery cockpit challenge: (sorry, I didn't have time to Hoover the seats, the console and the carpet). And yes, it is indeed historic and somewhat nostalgic..

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/810x534/0oswpff_eb8f4b2efaac782bdf70024ca8ffd04897927231.jpg

[Asturias56]

Looks like a Whirlwind to me................

[evansb]

Looks like a Whirlwind to me................
Not from the U.K., whatsoever.

[Asturias56]

looks like its been heavily used - but not Russian as it doesn't have the Microsoft Blue colour scheme on the dash..............

[sycamore]

WA/AS used to get the Alouette/Gazelle door handles from this company....looks like the seats as well....

[evansb]

Yes, sycamore is on to something.

[evansb]

Here is an early frontal view:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x932/bdk5tme_da75679473de586d241452ac29e4b208ba16a48e.jpg

[India Four Two]

Asturias, I got your joke! :)

[evansb]

As can be seen in post #1273, Russian aeronautical engineers haven't specified the "blue cockpit" in quite some time. The latest Sukhoi fighter and airliner cockpit dash is grey.

Another clue to the mystery cockpit: A reunion in July of 2019 featured this craft behind velvet ropes.

[evansb]

Not "heavily used" at all. 38 hours TTAF. One-off prototype. Three-blade hinge-less rotor with flexible hub, stainless steel blades with fibre glass trailing edges, cruised around 95 knots, and service ceiling was just over 11,000 feet. Two strikes on Asturias56. It is not a Whirlwind, not Russian/Soviet Bloc, (agreed), nor was it heavily used. The craft was powered by a mere 190-eshp motor.

[asw28-866]

Never mind the machine, test pilot moustache in 1328 is mighty impressive!

Happy new year all, this thread remains an oasis of calm participation in the ever more noxious interweb.

[evansb]

Yes indeed. An oasis.

If the answer to the mystery cockpit is not forthcoming by 2358 local Paris, France time, I will reveal the answer just before the clock ticks in to the year 2020.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Where does this ‘I’ll make up the rules to suit myself’ come from?

The cockpit is the Citroen RE2.

[evansb]

The last mystery cockpit of 2019, European Time, is the Wankel Rotary powered Citroen RE-2.



Happy New Year! Welcome the year 2020!

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Open house please.

[chevvron]

Oh my Lord, it's the Handley-Page Dart Herald!

lovely plane to fly, but an ergonomic nightmare, especially for the F/O.

BSD
To illustrate:
Flying from St Mawgan to Heathrow after dark in a Brymon Herald; F/O handling; asks Captain for windscreen anti ice; Captain picks up a torch (no lighting!) sees a switch and flicks it on; windscreen wipers start up!!(you couldn't make it up)
Captain says 'sorry, just spent 6 weeks on Twin Otters'!

[oncemorealoft]

As it’s been Open House for a while. Here’s an easy one.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1498x1146/ad2fd14f_c547_4240_abce_cef600f82278_725bd4c67b5016a2b5e5425 a3e2204774bb94e59.jpeg

[Cubs2jets]

Dassault Falcon 20

C2j

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Not so hard when a google search for ‘J469 cockpit’ has the answer immediately!

[Self loading bear]

Oncemorealoft
From the other thread:
”I was the guilty party regarding the Dassault’s placard which I’d failed to notice or recognise its significance. Sorry!”
No problem!
I think you still have handover control to Cubs2Jets?
Than he can post the next challenge when he wakes up.

[oncemorealoft]

Well done Cubs2Jets. Over to you.

[Cubs2jets]

Sorry for the delay.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/232x221/american_airlines_flagship_crew_in_cockpit_2__337b1ab297f857 670efa9d52dda3590ab433cec6.jpg

C2j

[Self loading bear]

Sorry for the delay.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/232x221/american_airlines_flagship_crew_in_cockpit_2__337b1ab297f857 670efa9d52dda3590ab433cec6.jpg

C2j

Nice a cookie jar with a compass!

[dook]

Throttle quadrant looks like a DC3.

[Cubs2jets]

DOOK is correct. American Airlines DC-3.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/669x1024/american_airlines_flagship_crew_in_cockpit_fc5a3b1047550b2b2 4449d8731d0f96bfdbe3b1a.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x668/nc21798_american_airlines_flagship_knoxville_4__8befe9455e2d 0a3a33b37ae79c28111ac1fc1d11.jpg

Over to DOOK

C2j

[dook]

Thank you C2J.

Open House please.

[Self loading bear]

To fill the open house:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/932x616/58d28797_cf8b_4505_92bc_d1d301bc68d3_651eecedd92fd8532149cfe d39f19389df1f15bb.jpeg

[Cubs2jets]

Hmmmm...

Looks to be an aviator famous for flying this plane to a first, but more famous for flying multi-engined aircraft.

C2j

[India Four Two]

I love the Morse key on the right side of the cockpit. Just in case you have any spare capacity while learning to fly under the hood, you can send Morse at the same time! ;)

[Self loading bear]

I love the Morse key on the right side of the cockpit. Just in case you have any spare capacity while learning to fly under the hood, you can send Morse at the same time! ;)

This man was not exactly learning to fly under the hood.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/879x627/7a802124_b690_4e90_9fa7_e9a26060bbef_f75b9c60da7c87b11311571 5471cb4cf10bd39ed.jpeg

[sycamore]

Possibly Jimmy Doolittle...?

[Meikleour]

Wiley Post?

[India Four Two]

This man was not exactly learning to fly under the hood.

I thought he was self-taught? :)

It’s Jimmy Doolittle and the cockpit is the Guggenheim Fund’s Consolidated NY-2 NX7918

[Self loading bear]

I thought he was self-taught? :)

It’s Jimmy Doolittle and the cockpit is the Guggenheim Fund’s Consolidated NY-2 NX7918

Exactly!
I got the first photo from a Flight Global article about cyber security in the aircraft industry.
At the time of posting I did not even know myself who and what the plane were.
Cub2Jet had clearly recognized the man and the photo.
So I myself had to find the answer too!

Jimmy Doolittle made the first instrument take off and landing in this NY-2 in 1929. Instrument flying only was already mastered by Jimmy at that time and common practice in advanced pilot training.

India has control

Ps the article of Flight Global is recommended!

[India Four Two]

Thanks Slb.

Here's an easy one. May have been done before:


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/728x506/wad_2020_01_11_8ed9acf84d0b4a174b31b7f351cf474031bcd301.jpg

[dook]

This looks like a twin-engine military job and I think turboprop.

Some of the labelling seems to be in Spanish.

Can't be many aeroplanes like that around.

[sycamore]

IA-58 Pucara.....?

[Asturias56]

looks possible...........................

[India Four Two]

Por favor espere 24 horas para pasar. ;)

[India Four Two]

El tiempo y la marea no esperan a nadie, pero PPRuNe sí.

De hecho es un Pucara.



sycamore has control, although I suspect dook knew all along!

[sycamore]

Sorry for the delay...Open House...

[Self loading bear]

Eager Mell,
this is your chance.

[dook]

53 hours since the OH was declared so maybe time to refresh the thread.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/637x314/nuvver_44b3c7d8eb371ce2092af04a00e4ac04a8e7cf86.png

[Self loading bear]

Are those Kanardia screens?

[sycamore]

reverse engineering...`ploughshares into swords`......

[asw28-866]

From putting out fires, to starting them?

[dook]

Slb Not sure about Kanardia screens - I had to look that up.

sycamore please expand.

asw not sure what you mean, but it isn't a firefighter.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Again we seem to have people effectively saying they know the answer and dropping sideways hints, which I for one find very frustrating - I’d much rather that people give the answer, than suffer the frustrating feelings of inferiority and exclusion which that can engender.

I’ll end the misery by naming the Iomax Archangel, a COIN development of an agricultural/aerial firefighting aircraft.

[dook]

24 hours has passed and Kit Sanbumps gets the top banana.

KS has the thread.

[Self loading bear]

The reason I was asking about Kanardia screens is because of a helicopter cockpit identification in the Rotorheads thread.

Panel identification (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/628617-engine-panel-interpretation.html)

this Archangel is however fitted with Esterline

[dook]

You learn something every day. :uhoh:

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Thank you. Try this one...

Ah. “The image could not be uploaded”.

Open house please

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Trying again...


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1305x1715/b06aca60_7e04_4912_b0bd_f8d129f8a739_6c0300927176be51de64ba3 77f5c307e31a2309d.jpeg

[Asturias56]

lot of namby -pamby protection around the edges of the cockpit - so probably post war........... at least the picture is

[India Four Two]

European instruments?

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

lot of namby -pamby protection around the edges of the cockpit - so probably post war........... at least the picture is

No, and yes.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

European instruments?

Perhaps, but I cannot say for certain.

[dook]

The two-needle altimeter has US marked on it I think.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

The two-needle altimeter has US marked on it I think.

I believe you’re correct.

[dook]

Then it's time for Aerofiles……...

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Then it's time for Aerofiles……...

An interesting conclusion...

[dook]

It's not a conclusion - it's just a hint for where players may wish to look if they don't know about that site.

It's called sharing knowledge.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

It's not a conclusion - it's just a hint for where players may wish to look if they don't know about that site.

It's called sharing knowledge.

Grammatically, it certainly looks like a conclusion. As for my words, well, they might be a hint...

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

dook, it might help if I say that your earlier statement (1391) met two out of three of the promises prior to sworn testimony.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

...which is a cryptic way of saying that there’s more than just ‘US’ on that instrument.

[dook]

Yes, but I can't see what the full word is.

Might the engine be supercharged ?

[dook]

I have been looking at the instrument to the left of the clock and wondering if it's an early machmeter.

It displays a decimal point in front of the numbers.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Yes, but I can't see what the full word is.

Might the engine be supercharged ?

Yes, single-stage geared supercharged.

I have been looking at the instrument to the left of the clock and wondering if it's an early machmeter.

It displays a decimal point in front of the numbers.

I'm afraid I don't know for certain what the instrument is, though I could take a guess with a very high degree of certainty that you're wrong and right in that order.

[Asturias56]

so something... "pedestrian" for top speed?

American built??

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

so something... "pedestrian" for top speed?

American built??

You'd have to define 'pedestrian'...

Not American!

[dook]

British then ?

[Asturias56]

"You'd have to define 'pedestrian'..."

I'd define it as you'd be better off with a Ferrari speedometer than a Mach meter................. ;)

[dook]

I ask again - British ?

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Again? So quickly? I'm responding as promptly as I can but I do have a life...

Not British...

Fitting a Ferrari ASI would not be a wise thing to do, but compressibility effects are not a concern.

[dook]

I am struggling with this one and nobody is posting any shots at it.

I thought it might be German such as a Klemm but can find nothing.

May we have a clue ?

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

You thought it might be German..? Maybe this image of the wing will help (with apologies for ‘non-cockpit’ content):


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1322x643/8a537a9e_9f51_4f44_87a3_8f97abca28e4_f66d27b5f9af2bae83866ae 0dc9ef641608cdf9e.jpeg

[Asturias56]

Finnish? Could be.............

[FollowTheSupper]

The cowling slots are rather reminiscent of the Polikarpov I-16, which was used by the Finnish... and as this is obviously the two-seat, open cockpit, trainer version... then it must be a Polikarpov I-16 UTI.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

An aircraft which amazed with its turn of speed, which should be comfort to Asturias.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/941x1067/b0b6b858_226a_4c5e_99e6_028e0d1fac07_f427236ebebcc533e765a64 10f466bf1986cad52.jpeg

FollowTheSupper has control...

[FollowTheSupper]

Thanks very much, Kit Sanbumps KG!
What about this one then...
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/001a_n21fs_2_9c1ad9fb8dc4fd12cffdb8306e6647d164caeaeb.jpg

I'll stay on radio silence (no confirmations or clues) until at least 2205Z on Sun 19 Jan.

[Asturias56]

I though publishing a swastika was a clear indication of (another) false trail................

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Indeed, the first one worked beautifully! The giveaway being the alignment fore-aft of the insignia - the Nazi one is orientated on the 45 degree line.

As for this one, there are some interesting clues there, not least the key fob (he said, playing the game he has criticised so often himself).

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

An excellent choice, in my opinion.

[Self loading bear]

Grumman G-44 Widgeon

[zetec2]

Not a key fob but a small plastic box to hold ear plugs

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Ah, I’ve seen floating key fobs that look just like it, which would have been a pointer to its nautical application.

[FollowTheSupper]

Well done… and no further clues needed! A Grumman Widgeon it is… this being a 1946 example of the G44A variant.

You have control, Self loading bear...

[Self loading bear]

Thanks,
An opening in the dashboard was the clue to a seaplane.
The rest was easy.

Now this:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/714x1310/dde4c906_cdb0_4da4_a99d_2fbbc993ab82_64756aab725b4ee23cefa20 37ff6b066a0d56092.jpeg

[sycamore]

Maybe a Falcon 20 modified variable-stability a/c used by Epner.....?

[dook]

Or maybe the control station for an air-launched vehicle.

[dook]

There are some strange instruments there but can anyone see any engine displays ?

The presence of a HUD is also interesting.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

MIT have a Falcon 20 but keep it very quiet...

[Self loading bear]

All good observations. But not the correct owner /application.

Perhaps you recognize a deceased friend?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/127x192/e8f996b0_ffda_4fc5_9454_d3fb4fe5eb71_05288aac68c36fb59a62ef4 a7d39ad784122bff2.jpeg

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Most perplexing. Something from the Rafale programme?

The left-hand device is odd, and suggests that this is a WSO-type of installation rather than a pilot station, but then why put it in the flight deck (plenty of room in the fuselage)? Obviously, seeing the outside world through the HUD is a key benefit, so is this a HUD development device?

Other than looking a bit like Saddam Hussain at first glance, I can’t place the ‘deceased friend’...

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Ah-ha!

From elsewhere:



S/n 115, 186 and 190 were Falcon STs, or weapons system trainers used in France and elsewhere. Their copilot positions were reconfigured to match fighter cockpits. A control stick was fitted in place of the copilot's yoke, along with the correct fighter instrument panel and weapons systems, including the Cyrano radar. The first became operational in 1969.

[Asturias56]

Is that Saddam in post #1426 Bear?

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

If so, are we thinking about the Stark incident?

Is my diagnosis of French ST good enough or must we dig deeper, Mr Bear?

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

I'll take another shot with Susanna, though the overhead panel is much more Falcon 20 than 50...

[MReyn24050]

I think you will find the answer here;- https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-modified-iraqi-falcon-50-business-jet-nearly-destroyed-us-frigate-66772

Falcon 50 with the registration YI-ALE was sent to France. During its rebuild at Villaroche, it retained usual controls on the left side of the cockpit but received a complete cockpit of the F.1EQ-5 on the right side.

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Yes, that's what I was looking at, but it doesn't figure with the Falcon 20 overhead panel. The 50 is quite different, and I wonder whether SLB has confused an ST flight deck photo with the YI-ALE and the Stark story. That said, we don't know his source yet...

[dook]

Ah - hello again MReyn.

[MReyn24050]

Hi dook. Great to see you are sill with us :D

[MReyn24050]

Yes, that's what I was looking at, but it doesn't figure with the Falcon 20 overhead panel. The 50 is quite different, and I wonder whether SLB has confused an ST flight deck photo with the YI-ALE and the Stark story. That said, we don't know his source yet...
You may be correct it could be the Dassault Mystere-Falcon 20 now located in the Musee European De L'Aviation De Chasse..

[Self loading bear]

Yes, that's what I was looking at, but it doesn't figure with the Falcon 20 overhead panel. The 50 is quite different, and I wonder whether SLB has confused an ST flight deck photo with the YI-ALE and the Stark story. That said, we don't know his source yet...

Dear Kit,
You are fully correct.
This Dassault Falcon 20 ST F-ZJTS has been used to train Iraqi pilots for the launching of Exocets. As they have done with the Falcon 50 Suzanna in the Stark incident. (My source was not very clear about the Falcon 50).
Sycamore identified the Falcon 20 but was wrong in the application.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/255x192/9542890d_c464_4102_a44e_b4c81a3acb3a_f69639e828d16b5c33114b1 6e2f2180488a98b8a.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x761/9fe1edaa_1ef2_40b9_8679_b982b45a0ff0_052c18a314183a2d9c3227b a153714e6ea4ec0e1.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/283x213/cc3f8608_787c_473c_afc2_fc8b883b47b7_1b5f05771bae5af85a7ec0b af13d696763319634.jpeg

[Kit Sanbumps KG]

Thanks SLB,

A very interesting challenge which took us to some unusual places.

I have something but it needs preparation, so may I say open house, and I will pick it up myself if I have time to get it ready? (Sycamore, if you have something ready to go, please be my guest...).

[dook]

……..
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x300/sleeve_cf1caf99db5acb8410a88cb6759aa5504ce61df1.jpg

[sycamore]

KSKG,ALLEZ-VOUS EN,LA PORTE EST OUVERTE

[Asturias56]

Lets try this one - don't expect it to last long...............

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/780x534/061020_f_1234p_005_f756091c51645d23eab984c6ea80d915c7b23d32. jpg

[sycamore]

No stick-no vote...!

[Asturias56]

I can assure you that the occupant stayed with the pilot all the time...

[dook]

Is this a bomber ?

[Asturias56]

Could be, could be - tho I don't think it ever dropped any in anger....................

[ex82watcher]

wild guess,rear cockpit TSR2.

[Self loading bear]

Dook,
I don’t want push you but what is taking you so long?:ok:

[Asturias56]

wild guess,rear cockpit TSR2.


alas no - wrong Air Force...................

[evansb]

Convair B-58 Hustler.

[Asturias56]

Our man from Timbukthree has the answer - the (frightening) B-58...................

[evansb]

Thank you. As I have nothing new to offer, I hereby declare OPEN HOUSE.

[Self loading bear]

The Hustler had an interesting ejection capsule system

[Asturias56]

A very interesting and complex aircraft - what frightened me was reading once about an F-11 test pilot who was asked if it was possible to land one with the wings swept back (at around 200kt)

"Sure" he said " just like every landing in a B-58....."

[Self loading bear]

We have an open house for more than 36 hours.
My apologies if I jump in too early

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/276x417/a3fd9a54_9435_458e_89ad_d139225ee796_d789719a910b4ef4f9c7c44 8bd51fa7f75006dd5.jpeg

[oncemorealoft]

Bleriot XI Monoplane

[cavuman1]

Northrop-Grumman B-2 Spirit (Stealth Cockpit)

- Ed

[Self loading bear]

De Blériot 11 It is
This replica of the Lelystad Early birds foundation of the late Jaap van Mesdag.

Oncemorealoft has control
The plane is white as a Ghost but I yet have find any connection to the B-2 Spirit

Oncemore aloft has control

[oncemorealoft]

I’m having problems uploading an image so Open House.

[oncemorealoft]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/390x225/d26fd604_0deb_4cc5_8787_b8c0c0a0945e_07ce3febda914a4bd3020cf 5f5a6c7a12a02c86b.jpeg
Sorted out uploading.

[dook]

Looking at the power levers I would say that's an early twin turboprop.

[Asturias56]

looking at the trim wheels it looks very industrial - hardly FBW I think.......................

It sort of vaguely reminds me of an Atlantic or an F-27 - it's neither but I'm thinking something substantial...........

[Self loading bear]

But The Friendship, Viscount and Dart Herald all look older so perhaps not that old

[dook]

Dart engine instruments.

[dixi188]

"Darts".
I'll go with YS-11

[oncemorealoft]

Dook, as a non-pilot myself, what are the clues that make it Dart powered as opposed to any other contemporary turboprop? There seems a lot of engine related levers compared to a pure jet or even modern turboprop.

[dook]

The conditioning levers distinguish it from modern turboprops and therefore most likely Darts.

I have only flown one turboprop and it had single-lever controls like a jet.

[Asturias56]

does look like a YS-11...............

[oncemorealoft]

NAMC YS-11 it is.

I believe dixi188 has it.

[dixi188]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/474x355/challenge_01_02_2020_0c0ba3b88367c14897dac10dcf752dae6475898 f.jpg
Try this one.
Dam. I've just seen something that should give it away.

[dook]

Oh dear - you certainly did and it does.

Why don't you remove it, brush it out and then replace it.

[Asturias56]

we won't look.....................

[dixi188]

Too late me thinks.
I got the photo so you couldn't see the name on the control column, but missed the other one.
Have this one on me.
I remember a demo of one of these in the '80s. Amazing that wouldn't stall, just kept dipping the nose.

[Asturias56]

I think in the circumstances we should let Dixi have another try....................

[dook]

"Amazing that wouldn't stall, just kept dipping the nose"

That's because the canard stalls before the mainplane, the second advantage of a canard configuration.

[dixi188]

Sorry guys, it is the Beech Starship 1 as it says on the ADI.
Try this one.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/577x433/pict3258_2_5882e192bda300b7ec99fe5ee2ff1152d9c94294.jpg

[dook]

'artnoon dixi.

I've flown the two-seat version of that so I'll keep quiet.

[Self loading bear]

Sorry guys, it is the Beech Starship 1 as it says on the ADI.

I did not decipher the starship 1 logo.
and was looking at the Piaggio-180 canard.
By coincidence that uses the same name of flight instruments...

[dixi188]

Sorry bear, Dook and Ast' lead me to post another.

[Self loading bear]

No problem
From the silhouette of the bomb display:
T-tail
Short wings sloping down
confirmed by searching
Emergency nozzle closure

F-104 Starfighter

When I followed a Management course I got some lessons on planning. The teacher/professor had been involved in a planning problem at Fokker building the Starfighters in license.
They could not get the aircraft from the pre-delivery flight test stations, so holding up delivery.
It seemed that after each test flight the amount of problems got bigger instead of smaller.

After analysis of the various problems they split the pre-flight stations in Radar repair and all other repair.
They first made an aircraft completely ready and did a test flight without radar. Then they went to a radar repair bay where they fixed the radar ASAP before something other broke down again. Time between failure of the radar was 10 hours after delivery I believe, but stand to be corrected.

[dixi188]

SLB has it.
F104G
Too easy really when you see the bomb diagram on the panel.




and the antennae tilt bottom right?!

Splot

[Self loading bear]

Thanks Dixi,
Now this:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/a0d7f4a7_a911_4a5d_9585_3ed7e3716791_f6143d25b28c4e7987b6562 dfef98c0aa3689732.jpeg

[dook]

That has to be experimental surely.

[Asturias56]

I've seen this before somewhere - it was experimental and I think it may have been French........ but what the big tube was for is beyond me ................. maybe a duct for a jet engine?? :eek:

[Self loading bear]

This aircraft has been identified before on this thread but at that time it was collateral damage as the challenge was another cockpit.

[evansb]

SUD OUEST Triton SO.6000J, first airframe designed with nose intake for French designed engine, later powered by a Junkers Jumo engine. Final version powered by RR (Hispano-Suiza built) Nene.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/824x537/hks628h_f4dde638216f41b1fe3e5b6c4be2b567ab9949ad.jpg

[Asturias56]

That's the one!

[washoutt]

But why the tube? The Triton had jet air inlets at the wing root, not the nose, so was the tube for?

[Asturias56]

But why the tube? The Triton had jet air inlets at the wing root, not the nose, so was the tube for?

Something that worried me as well..

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1237


The SO 6000 was being designed as early as 1943 in secret within German-occupied France. The initial approach called for a stressed metal skin monoplane aircraft powered by a single turbojet engine. The turbojet was to be aspirated by a wide-mouth air intake arrangement at the front of the aircraft. Unlike other jet aircraft of the early post-war years, the French design offered two interesting design qualities - its engine was buried within the fuselage (as opposed to underslung nacelles) and a crew of two were seated in a side-by-side arrangement. A tricycle undercarriage was also worked into the airframe and ejection seats were planned.The resulting design was a clean, if unorthodox, first entry into the world of jet-powered flight.

The side-by-side seating required a wide fuselage and this gave the aircraft an appearance akin to a modern corporate jet. The wide-mouth intake was replaced with two small side intakes. The fuselage shape was well-rounded and tapered noticeably from nose to tail. The low monoplane wing appendages were straight with rounded tips. Similarly, the tailplanes followed with a rounded look to them and complemented a single vertical tailfin. The tricycle undercarriage was made up of three legs (two main, one nose) and each sported a single wheel - the main legs retracting under the wings.

Attempting to recover lost technical ground from the war, French officials were sold on the promising Sud-Ouest endeavor and quickly moved to order six prototypes (one to serve in the static test role). Development of a French-originated turbojet proved slower than anticipated so this led to the selection of the rather unreliable German Junkers Jumo 004B to power the aircraft. These engines were built during the war on French soil so the decision was sound to help the SO 6000 project along. It also powered the famous wartime Messerschmitt Me 262 "Schwalbe" jet fighter.

The use of the Junkers engine produced the "SO 6000J" designation and would power the first two prototypes

First flight of the Triton was recorded on November 11th, 1946, marking a major stepping stone for French aviation. The flight lasted roughly 10 minutes and the aircraft managed a speed of only 180 miles per hour but progress was progress. The Triton then garnered considerable interest as a static display during the 1946 Paris Air Exhibit and much was expected from this impressive-looking French product going forward. Some delays brought on by technical challenges brought the program to a standstill flying-wise but the aircraft went airborne against to net a maximum speed of 250 miles per hour.

Three subsequent prototypes were initially selected to receive the British Rolls-Royce "Derwent" turbojet engine but this was not to be (the pairing generated the designation of "SO 6000N" as a result). Instead, the Rolls-Royce "Nene" 101 series turbojet engine (4,8501b thrust), already being produced locally under license for French de Havilland Vampires (through Hispano-Suiza), was set aside to also serve the Triton program. First flight of a Nene-powered SO 6000 (Prototype 04) was on March 19th, 1949 and further testing clocked the airframe at 555 miles per hour.

The Triton continued in testing for years later and went on to serve in its intended role as trainer for an all-new generation of French aviator - the jet fighter pilot. The platform proved valuable in introducing airmen to the nuances and speeds at which jet-powered aircraft operated, particularly when compared to even the fastest prop-powered fighters they were use to. While not a stunning technological achievement when compared to advances seen in Britain and the United States, the SO 6000 Triton still served French aviation well - particularly into the 1950s and 1960s with the Soviet Union now replacing Nazi Germany as the world's global threat.

All six SO 6000 aircraft were completed. Prototype 01 was the first French aircraft to fly under jet power but ended its career with just eight flights to its record before ultimately being retired in 1947. Prototype 02 was never flown as it awaited the original French turbojet engine that was not to be. Prototype 03 installed a powered ejection seat (unlike the first two prototypes) but only flew twice. Prototype 04 managed the most influential flying career of them all when it accounted for 189 flights. Prototype 05 was flown just eight times before being retired and Prototype 06 never advanced beyond its intended static testbed role.

Prototype 03 survives today as a protected museum showpiece at the Musee de 'IAir et de l'Espace of Le Bourget Airport in Paris. The Triton managed to reach a maximum speed of 593 miles per hour during its flying life as well as a service ceiling of 39,375 feet.

[Jhieminga]

This aircraft has been identified before on this thread but at that time it was collateral damage as the challenge was another cockpit.
Can I still claim points for that first identification? ;)

[evansb]

Here is the next mystery cockpit:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x640/dxnuybu_cfebbaa07c029b2b71f7822610c47e5e05f973fa.jpg

[dook]

This one was done in November. :)

[Self loading bear]

Evansb was the first on this contest and has control.
Jan Hieminga gets the bogus points :ok:

[evansb]

Sorry, I'll post another one if you want.

[dook]

Please feel free.

[evansb]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/780x520/hgcdyiu_9870254c90396c4b43f635de6831c4cd23d31376.jpg

[oncemorealoft]

First thoughts were something like the long-nosed Blenheim (can’t remember what mark that is) but this looked older. so perhaps a Boulton Paul Overstrand but that’s not it.

It’s a Potez 540 which went into service the same year, 1934, as the Overstrand.

[evansb]

Potez 540 is correct. oncemorealoft has control.

[oncemorealoft]

Sorry, unable to upload currently. Open House please.

[Self loading bear]

I was wondering If the holder was for an IPad or an Android?
and the make of the touchscreen on the right.
Does anyone know what these instruments were actually intended for?

[Asturias56]

It was a mirror so the pilot could adjust his moustache before leaving the aircraft................

[sycamore]

No ,it was an air-log driven moving -map display......

[dook]

Almost three days at OH.

[Asturias56]

I quite like the leisurely pace TBh.................

[MReyn24050]

Try this one
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/574x700/pprune26_0ee0b280c3830c61539e9364160954da57ad6b2d.jpg

[dook]

Looks like it's been swimming for a while.

[MReyn24050]

Looks like it's been swimming for a while.
That is true.

[sycamore]

Possibly Japanese...?

[MReyn24050]

Possibly Japanese...?

Not Japanese

[BSD]

Hmmm. I’m thinking it’s a US navy aeroplane, lost off a training carrier on the Great Lakes in WW2.
Haven’t several been recovered and then subject to an ownership challenge?
Actual type eludes me.

[MReyn24050]

Hmmm. I’m thinking it’s a US navy aeroplane, lost off a training carrier on the Great Lakes in WW2.
Haven’t several been recovered and then subject to an ownership challenge?
Actual type eludes me.

This aircraft was not one of those in the Great Lakes it went into the drink in Europe.

[dook]

It doesn't seem too badly corroded so was it in fresh water ?

Looking at the liquid bowl compass it might be German or Russian.

[MReyn24050]

It doesn't seem too badly corroded so was it in fresh water ?

Looking at the liquid bowl compass it might be German or Russian.

Yes certainly recovered from freshwater and it was one of those two countries of manufacture.