Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules

[ancientaviator62]

Wander00,
to the best of my recollection we only brought the vehicles back. I thing the drivers/navigators decided they had enough roughing it and came home in a more civilised manner. I remember a Hillman Hunter and a BMC 1800 but the others are lost in the mist of time.
It was my first time to Ozz and the Opera House was far from finished. Problems with turning a sketch into reality and lack of funds were the main problems.
Looks very nice now although the opera part is rather small by world standards.

[Wander00]

AA thanks -think his name may have been David Carrington. Another RAF car racer at the time was a Canberra mate called Hugh Mayes ISTR. Used to race a DKW saloon

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ... Just in case I forget ... Bon Voyage at T-7 Days ... Have a wonderful time :ok:

Coff.

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
many thanks. Will pick up when I return.

[smujsmith]

AA62, #1490. Was that me? I have no recollection. I do remember a PJI, doing trials on a tandem chute going out with the Falcs during an El Centro detachment. We continued to climb and did a Halo with some pathfinder guys. Some time after we landed the trials PJI and his chute arrived at the DZ, he told how at one point he was climbing at a rate of knots he was more used to falling at. He was quite a lightweight chap, and carried no ballast to account for the size, and intended purpose of the chute.

Have a great trip, and come back safe.

Smudge:ok:

[smujsmith]

Remember the days before the hurricane blew Homestead AFB base away ? I do, and particularly a Belize LOX run which may bring back a memory or two for a fellow poster, one Fergineer. I have this trip down as being with HCS (is that you Fergi ?). It was an all commisioned crew anyway, apart from myself of course. In those days we took an empty LOX container from Lyneham to Homestead, it was fully charged by the USAF, had a 24 hour settling period, after which we departed. The crew consisted of the usual five operators, plus a LOX safety man, and myself (the GE). So, all the foregoing has been done, the aircraft XV301 (a B line bucket as I recall) with Fergineer in the middle seat is " en route" having left LYN on 15 March 1992. We start and taxy out, it's a bit awkward today as Homestead are in full swing organising preparations for their annual open weekend. Line up, power up and lurch off down the runway. I honestly can't remember what caused the abort, Fergi might have made a note in his logbook, I do know that it was a valve housing fault, possibly a prop swing, which ended up with a small team of "lineys" joining us at Homestead. However, the fun was only just beginning. The abort was fairly late in the take off run, and as it was a prop snag (No2 from memory) limited reverse was available. The high ambient temperature and long subsequent taxy to the parking bay also contributed to what transpired. Our Loadmaster, a certain Tiny S****s, and I came down the crew steps, with my job being to position the nose wheel chocks. As I did this I noticed the flames emanating from the LH Brake units, Yep, both of them. Now, those in the know will also know that the overboard vent for the LOX container was immediately above and behind the LH MLG, therefore adding LOX to the mix of excitement. I pointed out the problem to the Loadie, who immediately, and correctly ordered an evacuation of the aircraft. The Co made a rapid call to ATC asking for fire brigade assistance before he followed the rest out.

Now, as with a lot of my photographs, the one I have with XV301 surrounded by around 20 great big, lime green fire vehicles is currently AWOL. My biggest problem was stopping the buggers squirting water at the wheels. They took my advice, and used a dry powder extinguisher to put the flames out. So there we sat, and after a full debrief we had a double brake unit and wheel change, plus the No2 Engine Valve housing change. An Eng rep to LYN elicited the news that a team and the spares would arrive by the Thursday (Local). 19 March 1992 I believe. Being a conscientious GE, and having a whole day to prep, I had everything ready for the lads when they arrived. Which they did on the Thursday, by which time we were parked in the static display next to a F117 and featured as a welcome visitor to "this years show". The LOX container had by now been removed and the aircraft made accessible, for visitors. The lads from Lyneham were, as always, brilliant. Arriving on Thursday morning from a Gander nightstop, they set to and by 1700 local, all faults had been rectified and tested, We even did a two engines, high power EGR on the static bay, thanks to some understanding Ops people. But, we were trapped because the only air movements allowed during the weekend were air display traffic. Our Captain, Fergi knows who, arranged our inclusion as a static exhibit with ATFOC and the lads from Lyneham had a well deserved three days off in Florida. For my sins I was awarded a field promotion to Flt Lt (it was the lowest rank tab anyone had spare, although I queried my demotion from Chf Tech) and given a share of the "welcome committee" shift for the always curious US people. My respect for Loadies soared that weekend as the galley was turned into a very welcome refreshment centre, and I was allowed to accompany my fellow crew members to the evening meal and get together in the 'O,s' Mess. One evening I enjoyed chatting with the base commander who remarked that he was not aware of any Commisioned "Crew Chiefs" in the USAF, Whilst wearing Flt Lt rank tabs, I had the standard "Smudge Smith =*= Ground Engineer" badge. He was obviously well aware of my status, but was gracious enough to thank me for contributing, and hoping I had enjoyed my stay. (you bet I did)!

On the Monday, we picked up our route, which was completed without further incident. It was the longest Belize LOX run I ever did, eleven days in toto, but one of the best routes I ever experienced. I'm sure many have "tits up" stories, I'm sure this is the forum to publish them on. Fergi, don't mention the Tomato Ketchup please.

Smudge

I apologise to all for the long post, like many Ex GEs I operate on the principle of why use two words when thirty will do;)

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
apologies if I have pinged you incorrectly. Must be the exitement of the upcoming trip to Perth !

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/LUFTWAFFEATMOMBASA_zpsc2623537.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/LUFTWAFFEATMOMBASA_zpsc2623537.jpg.html)

Another view of the RAF camp at Mombasa during Op Vigour. It was rumoured that the arrival of the RAF caught the Kenyan Government by surprise. Allegedly they called the High Commissioner in for a bollocking and told him they were no longer a colony and needed to be consulted first !
I had originally put myself down to go as the ALM on one of our crews, but the boss put paid to that. I could go alright but as his deputy. All my protestations of 'me Spec Aircrew' were to no avail. But I would be allowed to fly on an ad hoc basis. Which is what happened.

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
I have just looked back at the posts and in post 762 you do mention a friend with a tale of someone going out with an airdropped load. Or have I misunderstood ?

[smujsmith]

AA62, thanks for that, it must be one of those "senior" moments:eek: well, you may well remember the incident I'm referring to, when a para jumped and remained attached to the aircraft by his strop. I have heard rumours, but an old GE mate told me that it had happened during his time on the fleet and he knew the whole story. Im sure there must be others who know of it. Let's hope so. Thanks again for the reminder, I will be seeing him again in around three weeks, and will interrogate him thoroughly.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
I had assumed from your post that your friend had personal knowledge of someone going out with the load on a heavy drop sortie . I have earlier described how you could be dragged outside the door on a paratrooping sortie. And someone has described the HUPRA use for real during a paratrooper hang up.
Look forward to your post on the matter when I return from Perth.

[CoffmanStarter]

Smudge ...

Tales from the Hammock ...

Now that's a book title if there ever was one ;)

[smujsmith]

Coff, I suspect far superior ex GEs than myself might have schemes on that theme. I once toyed with a book title designed to show respect to the heroes of titles such as Jaguar boys, Victor boys, Vulcan Boys, Lighnting boys 1 and 2. Yes, you must have guessed Hammock boys. I'm sure I could garner a few juicy memories from some of the lads who have proudly emptied elsans around the world and suffered the deprivations the Golden Sands in Malaysia:rolleyes:

Smudge:ok:

[fergineer]

Smuj me old mate you will have people coking on their beers thinking that I could ever be Commisioned not me I am afraid was still in Oman in 92 not having fun!!!! Think you GEs should write a book about what happened in your days as long as you don't name names, you can name me I have no problems there. Hope all is well there enjoy Winter we are just coming into summer here!!!!

[smujsmith]

Fergineer, my sincere apologies, you are quite correct, it wasn't you. I think when I left the service, what was left of my brain was retained for test purposes:rolleyes: Have a good summer.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/RAFCAMPMOMBASA_zpsc22d6cd7.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/RAFCAMPMOMBASA_zpsc22d6cd7.jpg.html)

Another view of the camp at Mombasa. The daily routine was for the USAF to determine the flying program, LZs and loads to be carried the next day. This was fine BUT. They then had to send it to HQ at Scott AFB for approval ! This approval would only turn up after we had gone to bed as all the trips were early starts and long days. So we (and the USAF) worked on the assumption that it would be ticked as requested. I cannot recall an instance when it was not approved or even amended. Micro management of which we in the UK are now 'skilled' practitioners.
Initially the USAF wanted us to move some of their kit around, especially the bits the USAF did not want to move. The Boss quite firmly but politely put a stop to that as, rightly in all our opinions we were there to carry out the humanitarian aid task. Which is what we did.

[ancientaviator62]

I see the Arnhem tribute drop is taking place. According to my log book, on 20 September 1975 we went to Northolt in XV 297 to pick up the paras. We then landed at Deelen and then took off and dropped them at what my log book says is 'Arnhem DZ'. We did three runs and I have a vague memory of most of the troops being reservists.
I also seem to recall that the wind was 'marginal' but we dropped anyway as the paras were very keen to jump.
After a nightstop we took them back to Northolt the next day.
Two days after that I was off to Jacksonville NAS via Gander etc in good old 'trembling two'. Variety certainly was the spice of life in those days.

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ...

Someone has to ask ... might as well be me :ok:

So I recognise the W/C Pennant, Union Jack and the Ensign... But the lower one is confusing me ... is it either (1) the Standard Explosives Red Diamond or (2) the Signal Flag Foxtrot meaning "I am disabled; communicate with me".

Coff.

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
'tis the 30 Sqn pennant. If you look back at my collector's item 30 Sqn tea towel pic you will see a rendition of that.

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ... All clear now ... in fact I can now just see the Palm Tree outline ;)

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
your comment about the explosives flag could easily apply to us out there.
Most of us suffered from Jomo's Revenge and we flew in towels as nappies when our internals exploded.
The RAF lady doctor with us wanted to ground us all. But we explained this was how it usually was and we always just got on with it ! We did put a black poly bag in the Elsan to make the job easier for the unfortunate soul who had to empty it.

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ... So my (2) above could have also applied :eek:

[chickenlover]

AA62
Your story rekindled horrible memories of a similar katastroff in Ethiopia. The poor engineer had a negligent discharge of the brown kind on the first sector of a long, multi sector day. He was ejected from the flight deck to go and clean up with much derision and banter by the rest of us.....
One by one we all succumbed until we were all in spare shorts/blue roll nappies.
The look from the local unloading teams said it all about the malodorous state of the flight deck.
Repeated again on the famous Turkey Detachment when the locals flogged us 'bottled' water from the cracked mains pipe that ran in with the sewerage .......:sad::yuk:

[ancientaviator62]

chickenlover,
your tale backs up what I said to the lady doc. We were used to catching the 'squits' on these type of ops AND getting on with the job. To be fair to her it was her first overseas detachment , and a very steep learning curve.

[ksimboy]

The quote I recall from Ethiopia was "confidence is a dry f**t". Happy Sunday nights in the Buffet de la Gare. :)

[smujsmith]

It doesn't take much to get back to the Elsan for some :oh:

Smudge:ok:

[November4]

Ethiopia - we worked Day on Day off or....

A day of eating Imodium followed by a day of no more than 10 feet from a toilet.

[November4]

Just found these which might be of interest

c-1owRlvZXU

2AOKc1dsVmo

TyN713M0rqw

[smujsmith]

Nov4,

Any chance of a link to the last one there, it's a cracker. YouTube by any chance ? I found this one which offers a glimpse at Albert in early days also.

Hercules For RAF (1967) - YouTube (http://youtu.be/_VWKlr_TjQQ)

Smudge:ok:

[November4]

there you go Smudge

Support, Supply, Save (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyN713M0rqw)

[CoffmanStarter]

Excellent finds November4 :D

[ksimboy]

Great viewing nov 4 , evokes memories of the video produced by one of the Lyn Sqns years ago. Issued to all who had paid for it's making one day and recalled and destroyed the next. What a hoot :*

[Brian W May]

Ah yes, Ethiopia. The only time I have been force-fed Immodium!

Happiness most certainly WAS a dry fart.

I remember travelling down in the Hilton lift with an obese white man with an attitude . . . the GE and myself were in flying suits (I didn't have my name, just the brevet).

In 'conversation' (strained) with him, I ended up remarking 'Only the Daily Mirror would send a big fat f***er to cover a famine' . . . Fortunately, we heard no more of it - could have been worse as we had an ITN crew with us, Geoffrey Archer (not the ex-crim).

That would be the trip when I observed to the British Ambassador's daughter that she had a better moustache than our navigator (thank you Brandy Sours).

Nostalgia eh?

[Wander00]

Those were the days - when we could afford to detach two Brits for a fortnight to cart 2 entries of Towers cadets to America, round Washington, Denver (For C Springs), New York and back; and the NY part was pure "jolly"!

[smujsmith]

Noember4, thanks very much for that. Now I can watch it on the big screen:ok:

Right Lads, we need to hear from what was once the Royal Air Forces largest formation display team (well, surely so on combined wingspans), yes, the Green Barrows are surely worthy of some study. Their origin, work up and experiences. So come on lads, you once dazzled with your precision and awesomeness, don't be shy, check in.

C-130 Hercules 4-Ship Formation - YouTube (http://youtu.be/UYxDMlwiG2Q)
Could this be them in action ?

Smudge:ok:

[Brian W May]

Further to my post regarding Ethiopia, I've posted a link to the video sent to me by the ITN cameraman.

Some of it has no sound, and some is what was transmitted. You may well recognise one or two folks . . .

I invited him to a 47 Sqn do after we got back and he thoroughly enjoyed it!

http://youtu.be/1-sH7Z-N1Qo

Part 2 http://youtu.be/G8mEMjtwDmg

Hopefully, the above link will work, if it doesn't, give it a bit of time as the file is quite large.

[chickenlover]

Ksimboy-not all destroyed old chap ;)
Recently digitised too.
The guy that produced it used to work at VASF- 'Oz' I believe, has probably got the masters still.
Still debating whether to give it an airing or not....

[Brian W May]

YouTube links are working.

ITN didn't edit it, so I haven't (apart from cutting to fit YouTube's limits on my account).

Enjoy

[ksimboy]

Chickenlover,
thats 2 digital copies i am aware of then lol . some people are just naughty arent they!:O

[CoffmanStarter]

Brian ...

Those video clips are still very moving to watch even today ... Thank you for sharing with us :ok:

Coff.

[Brian W May]

My pleasure Coff, we really did have Feed the World playing . . . Nav's Walkman bodge-taped to the mike. Note his moustache. Sadly can't remember his or the GE's name. The rest were Bob Rowley, Steve Evans and Davy (GEE) Whiting, plus of course the great lads on 47 AD, who were unsung heroes.

Several repeats of that run on Gondu Meskel as we ended up RTB with fluctuating reduction gearbox oil pressure on #4.

I also have a sort of Engineering 'prequel' if there's any appetite for it. Had to chop it up to post. Dropbox took a dim view, hence YouTube.

[CoffmanStarter]

I'm up for the prequel Brian :ok:

[Brian W May]

Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeoWb6d-9qc

and :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku2HEVdBa7Q

That's it guys, that's all I have, sorry about the repeats, obviously some are the actual ITN voice-overs with Geoffrey Archer, but this is how the tape came to me from ITN.

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks again Brian ... Everyone who took part, in whatever capacity, can be justly proud of their role in Op Bushel :D

[bingofuel]

"The Foodbirds"

I suspect many on here will be aware of the above titled book by Molly O'Loughlin White written about Operation Bushel

If anyone is interested ISBN 1-870519-24-8

She also wrote a good book about the Sc5 Belfast.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/scan0012_zpsc2663593.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/scan0012_zpsc2663593.jpg.html)

Apologies for the short intermission before my long one. The computer had a huge wobbly and it has taken three days to sort it out. After aimlessly poking about in the innards I decided to use some of my long dormant tech training, a bit of logic and get out the test meter. To cut a frustrating story short, the PSU was the culprit.
A used spare is now doing duty but I may have to invest in a new computer as this one is seven years old. Anyway back to Op Vigour.
The pic above shows a typical load and no prizes for spotting where the aid came from. You can also see the improved version of the G/E hammock folded just forward of the port para door. Not that they ever got to use it in theatre. You can also see the blue poly bag inside the Elsan, as previously mentioned.
The chaps on top of the load are two of the RAF police security team, all of whom were excellent and really got involved in helping .

[Dougie M]

Although the "Foodbirds" were the mighty C130s, Queens of the skies, the local eagles reckoned that they were encroaching on their territory and were not afraid to take on the aircraft in flight. There were one or two spectacular results with Cat5 eagle and Cat2 Herc.

[ancientaviator62]

Dougie,
I seem to recall in the early days of the 'K' Dave P... having an altercation with a vulture on t/o from Nairobi. This resulted in a close view of the game park as they dragged the 'K' back for an emergency landing. Dave P... was a cool operator who got an early promotion to Captain on the Hastings. He prevented the Colerne 'staish' from landing at Hullavington instead of Colerne !

[Xercules]

AA62, your detachment was not as deputy to a certain portly navigator wing commander was it? I remember his being extremely concerned when he returned and complaining that the underbelly protection that Marshalls had developed made the aircraft look very untidy.

You will recall the original version was a bit like Marley floor tiles glued to the underbelly of the aircraft and he was not impressed that they worked loose and, in some cases, came off. He took a lot of persuading that, as with the space shuttle, they were meant to be sacrificial rather than the aircraft skin doing the same job. The need for protection came about from Op Bushel after which an eagle-eyed ground crew spotted something amiss with the underside of one on the line at LA, investigated and poked his thumb through the skin with no effort at all - the shale on LZs having abraded it thoroughly. If memory serves we had several aircraft grounded immediately and several more flying with restricted pressurisation until repaired.

The other "skin" problem we had was with grains that had escaped from their packaging and fallen under the cargo bay floors. There in the dark, warmth and damp of the underfloor heating they germinated freely with their roots forcing themselves between the fuselage ribs and skins tearing them apart. Yet again a demonstration of the Law of Unexpected Consequences.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/MOGADISHU_zps73bc2b81.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/MOGADISHU_zps73bc2b81.jpg.html)

This is my last Op Vigour posting before I leave for Ozz. The main tale of the VVIP trip will have to wait until I return as I need to upload the pics.
The pic is of Mogadishu.
One day during the det the boss took his only day off leaving me as chief 'office boy'. Usual early start for a first light launch of the fleet, all two a/c. Brief the crews, met check etc and authorise the trips. Once they have gone it was a cup of coffee, admin and a walk round the site. After lunch I had to go to talk to the USAF about common problems and then I came back to our ops.
The ops clerk said he had a phone call from the crew that had gone to Mogadishu, they had a snag and were unable to start one of the engines. They would call back in an hour.
There was no way of getting a spare to them that day as all the USAF a/c were out as ours were. The GAF were doing their own thing and seldom landed anywhere but back at Mombasa. To retrieve the a/c that day it would have to be a three engine ferry.
I rechecked the auth sheets but merely to confirm what I already knew, it is an all instructor OCU crew, who teach such things.
Next step was to look in the det orders that group have issued us with.
Big snag. Only Group Captain AT at group can authorise a three engine ferry.
The comms were very difficult out there but I eventually get the Group Ops Controller on the phone and asked to speak to the Group Captain.
I was informed that he was out for the day but I could speak to his deputy.
He turned out to be the W/C Air Movements. I explained the situation but not surprisingly he does not know anything about three engine ferries and it appeared that there was no one there to advise him !
Time was pressing so I said that unless he rang me back to forbid the three engine ferry from Mogadishu to Mombasa, having considered all the circumstances, I was going to authorise it. I never did receive a phone call back from group one way or the other.
So I authorised the three engine ferry in the auth book with a note that I had spoken to group.
When the captain rang back I checked the details with him and authorised him to fly the a/c on a three engined ferry, basic crew plus G/E and empty of cargo and pax. I did mention coming back the sea route in case of further problems but of course they had already thought of that !
Back they came without drama or fuss, and the menders performed their usual
magic and we had two frames on the line ready for work the next morning.
That night over dinner I briefed the boss on the days events and he said I had done the right thing.
So life went on as usual on the det until we received THE signal informing us that a VVIP would be visiting and that is where I will pick up the story when I return, with plenty of pics.

[ancientaviator62]

Xercules,
yes I was the deputy to the then OC 30 Sqn for whom I had the greatest respect. The problems with the underside of the 'K' were known right from the start. Even using the comparatively benign Upavon Gallops or Nz Farm for strip landings would trash the a/c underside. Was not the joke after the Op Bushell grain started growing in the a/c that the groundcrew would be issued with lawnmowers ?

[Xercules]

That joke certainly rings a bell. I did not mean to disparage said W/C but it seemed a necessary start to the tale. He and I did have our ups and downs from time to time but, on the whole, we got on very well. He was then my OC for the year I was a reservist before I broke myself and also realised that the demands of currency were incompatible with a full time job elsewhere.

Enjoy your time in Oz.

[ExAscoteer]

If you got on with the 'Fat Controller' things were fine, but woe betide if you didn't.

Fortunately I never had a problem but I know several who did...

[smujsmith]

Interesting trail we are following here chaps. I rather suspect that the trials and tribulations you suffered during your exploits led to the "tarmac underbelly" we had on the SF frames, by GW1. I must say, having experienced strips various at that time, the protection was very effective, the only problem we ever had was a double puncture on the RH mainwheels on a shale strip. Now, that was a story of fine flying and crew collaboration that might be relevant after Africa is done. Meanwhile, some great detail chaps, right down to the stowed GE hammock AA62. Keep it going.

Smudge:ok:

[WIDN62]

The photo of the bags of grain remind me of a trip into Gondar. I was in Ethiopia on an airland detachment, later on in the RAF's time out there when it had started to rain. Gondar was a short dirt strip facing a large hill, so we landed towards the hill and took off away from it. I had previously been up to the storage shed for the grain and seen the stockpile they had there - we were delivering it more quickly than they could distribute it - so there was no real pressure to get in there.
Anyway this day there was a huge thunderstorm over the hill and as we approached we could see on the weather radar that it was moving towards the strip. Definitely not a day to go around! After landing it was just beginning to rain. I said to the Loady that I would give him 5 minutes and then we were closing up and getting out of there and take back whatever was left of the load.
As you can see from the earlier photo, it was all manually off loaded. We had our Loady, a young mover and the locals. We started the stop watch and after 3 1/2 minutes I asked how they were doing and got the reply " Just tidying up, start taxying and I'll let you know when I am ready". They had manually offloaded 25000 lbs in that time - and our loady had just gone up hugely in our estimation.

After the first sortie out of Addis Ababa each day, we used to load up from a strip at Assab which is on the Red Sea coast. At first glance you wondered why the strip was parallel to the coast, but a visit in the afternoon when the sea breeze had got going showed why - 40 kts blowing down the strip was not uncommon. One day, after a discussion about Khe Sanh over a beer or 2 the night before, I did one of these approaches into Assab. For those who haven't seen them, they are quite impressive and the stronger the headwind, the better they are. We landed and taxied in and parked by the storage shed. Normally the locals were ready and grain was being onloaded as we shut down. Today there was nobody to be seen so I walked over to the shed and they looked at me in amazement. When I asked why they weren't loading the aircraft, the chargehand said "We saw you coming in but thought you had crashed so we came back in here to wait for the next aircraft". To give them their due, there were crashed aircraft close to a number of the airfields we used - in particular one off either end of the runway at Addis.

[ksimboy]

I recall going into Assab one day carrying 3 nuns on the way to Makele, carried the ladies on the flight deck to keep them away from the locals down the back. Captain decides to do Khe Sahn and invites the head nun to stand behind him for the landing. After briefing said lady on what was about to happen Albert pitches nose down, with an unusual view of the sea one side and desert the other. Unpleasant odour on flight deck with all on intercom denying it was them. On landing head nun seen disappearing rapidly towards the hangar with the only toilet, claiming to be a little ill. Yet another quality day on Albert. :O

[Dougie M]

On my second det out in Addis we also were asked to take a party of nuns to see the church at Debre Libanos en route to a drop at Lemi. The skipper, one J*** C****** decided to skim the high ravine tops which caused some rather un-nunly vocals. We thought that they were terrified but were informed by one of the lady teachers at the English School that the zero G probably gave them a little pelvic floor lift which might have been their only sexual experience in the company of men. Sad.
As regards the other birds I found the Eagle v Herc photos but can't upload them.

[ksimboy]

Dougie ,is the carp still a big fish? Also if the lights and intercom fail it goes dark and quiet?

[CoffmanStarter]

Dougie M ... Check PM's :ok:

[Dougie M]

Thanks Coffman, but my tech was an hour's worth of wriggly string with 2 minute markers along it and a stopwatch. Ksimboy has already nicked my tactical nav brief.

[smujsmith]

So there we were, The run up to GW1, an SF Flight Det, flying out of Minhad, wall to wall F16s and the sexiest beast on the base was Albert. On the day in question, we two GEs had decided to split the workload. The day's task was a trip down to a strip to meet the head honcho of the "hooligans", who had set up a camp nearby. This was before "Victor" was involved, and didn't look like it was a ball breaker of a day. My pal KM won the toss and got the day off. I should explain that the Det had been set up with engineering planning done by the mightiest brains of LYN Eng wing, what could go wrong? We had a spare mainwheel at Minhad, which was considered ample cover for the one month detachment. The crew was Captained by one C*** T*****y who was IMHO a class pilot.

Off we went, and landed on the required strip, as it turned out it was a shale strip, not sand, and was our first experience on that type of surface on that det. As our skipper held his meeting with Mr Hereford at the back of the shut down aircraft, I decided to have a "bimble" around the aircraft to see if the shale had inflicted any damage. As I walked past the RH MLG bay I heard a hissing noise. I lifted the door and stuck my head between the mainwheels, crikey, stereo hissing ? Sure enough, two mainwheels punctured and leaking nitrogen in a big way. I inform both the Eng and the Captain, who had a listen and decided a rapid departure for Minhad was in order. I managed to phone my fellow GE at the Hotel and get him heading to Minhad to prep to fix the snag.

On takeoff from the strip, it was obvious that the RH wheels were getting a bit "soft". The transit back to Minhad was around 30 minutes, and all were aware that the tyres could well be very deflated on arrival. On landing, the Captain made sure that the RH MLG was given the lightest of loads possible, and after taxying off the runway, the long taxy back to our dispersal was completed at high speed with considerable left aileron applied (we did the lot with the RH MLG off the ground) on arrival at our parking slot my mate KM was there with the spare mainwheels. Just like the well known "prick of steel", we now come to the tragic bit. Whilst providing our detachment with a spare mainwheel, LYN Eng failed to supply a suitable jack to facilitate our changing it. My mate had done his best and had borrowed a jack from one of the F16 squadrons. So, we decided that we would replace the rear RH (Punctured) mainwheel, and worry about the forward one once the aircraft was stable. Unfortunately the "blow out" valves in an F16 Jack function well below the weights encountered by the raising of even one bogey on Albert. You guessed it, we couldn't get the bloody flat tyre off the ground. We had a problem.

Some phoning around had elicited that a USAF C130 unit were within a 30 minute flight time of Minhad. They were, as always, amenable to assisting us in our plight. We devised a cunning plan. N2 bottles and a swift inflation of both wheels saw us safe, if hissing, to depart (I have to admit we inflated slightly over pressure). Our arrival at the destination had our Captain treating the RH gear with respect again, and taxying in to the designated bay saw us jacked up, as the engines were winding down. The "Yanks" were brilliant, and had us fixed in around 30 minutes. They fitted two of their wheels, we returned two days later and refitted our wheels with US tyres fitted. Whatever anyone says, the US Albert operators were always amenable in dire times.

I salute the planner who can foresee a requirement for replacing a wheel, and not see the requirement for the tools to do it. For the rest of that detachment both of us GEs rolled our eyes as we passed our spare mainwheel. An Eng Rep, informing the powers that be was sent, requesting a jack for the det, it was not forthcoming. The airmanship by the Captain that day was extremely impressive. His "sympathetic" ground handling of the aircraft ensured that the eventual remedy could be undertaken. It was a bit of a day for my mate KM too, he had to come to work. After having got the tyre problem sorted out we continued with the day's programmed tasks. Once again, a team effort ensured the job was done. I will never forget that fast taxy down Minhads taxyway though.

As usual I apologise for the long winded post, I'm sure if I could use less words I would, I "just weren't built like that though"!

Smudge:ok:

[Brian W May]

You should listen to my Hercules song, one of the verses goes:

Three yellow lights, pumps OFF at the rush
Christ we're stuck here four days with an hydraulic flush
But we carry four boxes and two rubber wheels
A green towing arm and all the wrong seals

Right up your street Smuj. Sadly I wrote it before we habitually carried GEs.

[smujsmith]

Sounds very familiar Brian. I have another breakdown coming down the pipe in which I had a quite interesting conversation with a Sqdn Ldr route checker, who decided (at the top of the ladder just behind me) that all GEs and ranger packs were a waste of time. He had to get back to Lyneham on time because he was going to a birthday party. That somehow the failure that stopped us in Bahrain was all my fault etc etc. The only time I can ever remember being verbally abused by an Orificer (no disrespect to real gentlemen) of the RAF in 30 years. His unfortunate slip, and subsequent arrival at the bottom of the ladder, was obviously all my fault too.:eek:

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Another great story there Smudge :ok:

Whilst there have been other mentions on PPRuNe Mil in the past about Albert paddling at the seaside ... We've yet to hear on this thread if there are any amusing stories connected with such outings ... Not just the crew wearing swimming trunks and grabbing a 99+Flake from Mr Whippy :ok:

Maybe seaside outings in warmer places than just the UK ?

Smudge ...

From an engineering perspective ... I assume it was a bit of a pain to flush the airframe out after Paddling Ops ... along with liberal amounts of PX24 (not on the brakes ofcourse) squirted in every orifice :eek:

[smujsmith]

Ahh Coff, I rather suspect that like many ex techies, I can think of several "orifices" I would definitely have enjoyed giving a dose of PX24 (WD40) to. Mostly, not members of the winged variety. There's always the "rogue" and the bloke I mentioned was one of them. By the time I had become a C130 Ground Engineer I had grown up, so perhaps seeing people of similar age and time in service, regardless of rank, made me think that I was entitled to the same respect as them made me a bolshie when they tried their "I am" attitudes on me. Do it to the Captain you're checking mate, don't try it on with me, I've got a job to do. Whatever, I only ever had two "run ins " with such people, the same bloke both times. Many I flew with (aircrew) held him in the same low regard. Paddling ?

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Paddling ...

Staunton Sands ... amongst other locations :ok:

[smujsmith]

Coff,

I suspect Chickenlover might know more about such "arrivals". hopefully declassified by now.

Smudge:ok:

[A340Yumyum]

Little visit to the loft today......


No 2 decided to dump it's entire hydraulics on the pan outside 1312 Feb '93


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan4_zpsb91c6e82.jpeg[/URL]


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan5_zps8f9568a3.jpeg[/URL]

Post refuelling over North Island

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan_zps25ec735f.jpeg[/URL]



Male 1992


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan2_zpsf5d250df.jpeg[/URL]



Think these next 3 were passed to me by 'Chickenlover' - maybe he could shed some light?


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan7_zpse242f83c.jpeg[/URL]


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan3_zps651bc040.jpeg[/URL]


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan8_zps33616e5c.jpeg[/URL]


Happy days..........

[OmegaV6]

Smuj .. declassification not needed on a lot of them .. Pembury, Pendine and Staunton all used for "beach training".... as well as publicity ... Top Gear a few years back had a 70 Sqn Herc landing to "so say" deliver a Jag for a test ... aircraft actually arrived empty, Jag drives on, aircraft taxies forward to a fresh bit of sand ... Jag drives off .... 'twas a good day out for all involved .. :)

You tube has a few clips of beach work .. here's just one ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uzpDy3n3Vs

bit of searching ...the top gear programme I refered to

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/sand-blast-2-part1

from minute 7 onwards :)

[smujsmith]

A340, what superb shots, particularly the one down the hose. I see the Engineer rarely parted from his coffee mug. Same in my day. I'm sure that Chickenlover can put some words to your shots let's hope he is still following and can help out. Could the last three be from a Scottac, West Country, Wales and Scotland ? (305 and 302 taken from a third aircraft suggests a 3 ship). Assuming they were taken on the same trip. Spectacular wherever they come from.

Omega, the top gear "gig" was certainly a good bit of PR for the fleet. But what were the challenges in landing on beaches etc ? I bet Coff has an interest, he might be the bloke who put a Chippie down on a beach, or was he ?

Smudge:ok:

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

If you look at it long enough, will it will go away?

Aaron.

[CoffmanStarter]

Superb pics A340YY ... thanks for sharing with us :ok:

Smudge, Omega ...

Just interested in the apparent myriad of challenges in putting Albert down on a beach (and getting off again) ... such considerations of (1) on/off-shore winds, (2) wind shear on finals, (3) variable landing surface wet/dry/wet (friction and sinking), (4) visual perspective, (5) X-Runway slope issues etc. etc.

Nope ... me ... nothing to do with the Chippie on the Beach.

[Wander00]

Great to see the Saunton film-I often dog walk there with a friend, but how the heck did they keep Joe Public off the beach - there are quite a few access points, some official and others "unofficial".

[Bts70]

2 of 3 is over the fishing lakes down the bottom of Tockenham isn`t it, M4 to the left.

[A340Yumyum]

[QUOTE]2 of 3 is over the fishing lakes down the bottom of Tockenham isn`t it, M4 to the left./QUOTE]

I think so - will venture up to the loft later and take a look for some more....

[Brian W May]

Herc piccy:

Well No 2 MIGHT have dumped all it's hydraulics (Utility system), but there's also a bloody big puddle of hydraulic oil under No 3 (Booster system) and there's two guys looking at it . . .

Go on, tell me it was an Observation Test (no wonder groundcrew wrote NFF so often) :cool:

[Dougie M]

I agree about the recent Herc photos. One is over the Tockenham reservoir and the other two look suspiciously like Scottac to me.
Before leaving the Ethiopia theatre here is some "battle damage" and in theatre repairs after an aggressor Eagle Strike.http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/EagleEthiopia02_zps3fbb4179.jpg

[Just This Once...]

Didn't disturb a hair on your head Dougie!

[Dougie M]

The Culprithttp://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/EagleEthiopia01PB_zps50c37431.jpg

[Just This Once...]

LOX pot?

_________

[CoffmanStarter]

Dougie ...

That's one hell of a birdstrike there ... Great pics ... Thanks for sharing with us :ok:

Coff.

[Bts70]

Very impressive for the bird to achieve that. The usual glancing blow only to be minced by the prop was obviously side stepped.

At least the crew would have been aware of it, quite a bang for the smallest of birds never mind a beast like that.

Not quite a brown trouser moment as the cupola explosion whilst crewman in the bubble mind you!

Talking about South Wales strips where was it that a K bogged down and had to be dug out by engineers mid 90`s, props being vey close to the earth when slotted?

Another strip this time on the Plain saw another frame dug out using crash axes one night about 2010. Boring story but I think we assisted the job by transferring all the fuel into the STBD wing! did someone mention wing fatigue .......anyway, job done and achieved swiftly enabling a return to Lyneham within a few hours of arriving. We did forget to take the jacking handle (seat pole works wonders) and the MLG jack was at a 45 degree angle to the oleo but everything else was by the book.......the book being knowledge in the job and the limitations presented by environment and acceptance of risk by those I was lucky to be working with. The firemen looked on with furrowed brows at time, I hope they filled the hole in when we left.

[ksimboy]

Bloody hell Doug, you were a Flt Lt once? Albert bogged in at Newton as the chap who recced the strip forgot the aircraft needed to turn at the ends of runway .

[Bts70]

Easy thing to overlook, was this not a usual strip used?

[condor17]

A340Yumyum , got my coat and hat waiting ... thought Skydrol was red coloured .... Perhaps 1st shot should read '' How do you fit a quart of tea in a pint mug '' ?

atb condor ,

PS keep 'em coming , still waiting for a pause so Green Barrow stories can be told .

[condor17]

Saunton Sands great , standard calls might be odd ..... '' Vee1 Dry , Vee1 wet , Vee1 dry , Oh B++++r it , Rotate ''

coat hat , condor .

[A340Yumyum]

Oops. Sorry, yes, no 3. I blame jet lag....

More to follow in a bit. Got to go to Philadelphia tomorrow.

[ksimboy]

Bts, yes it was used quite often , human error is a bummer though !

[smujsmith]

Doug,

You've not changed a bit since I last had the honour to accompany you on a route. Ignore Ksimboy, like me, he was always "follically" challenged. He could do a nice AA though:eek:

Smudge:ok:

[Dougie M]

Smudge
I do recall a rather "hair raising" trip to Oz with a slightly mad a/c cdr who thought that he was invincible. The high spot was a "Hash Run" in the jungles of Brunei with M*** F** after which your little helper nailed his daughter in the hotel and had to come to the flight deck the following day to suffer a "Top of climb" debrief on the Brunei company frequency with the irate father.
Happy Days
Dougie

[smujsmith]

Dougie, I certainly remember the hash run (more of a walk for me), the golfing in Aus and our lady Eng going "tits up" (can I say that?) in Darwin on the way back. That was the trip we went to Sydney to do a prop pull and replace the GITZ seal. I still have my souvenir boomerang. My fellow GE on that trip (one T***** T******n) is on holiday in Cyprus at present, but will enjoy reading this bit next week I'm sure. Hope you are well.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Smudge wrote ...

I still have my souvenir boomerang.

Is that also in your Nav Bag that you (correction Mrs Smudge) can't find as yet ... :ok:

Dougie ...

I'll post those other pics you kindly sent me tomorrow :ok:

Coff.

[smujsmith]

Coff, the Boomerang is still on a wall in my bedroom. The Nav bag remains elusive at present, I'm hoping to make my way up the ladder myself shortly, Im sure it's up there. Mrs Smudge wimps out too quickly for my liking, so time to resolve it once and for all.

Meanwhile, the boomerang that accompanied Dougie and myself home was purchased in Sydney after a very busy day, and night. Our trip was to collect and return the remnants of a Nimrod detachment to Adelaide as I recall, and we were routed down through Brunei to Darwin, then Adelaide. Our return being another night stop at Adelaide northbound and then the usual track. The No2 prop had been throwing oil since heading south from AKR, and both TT and myself were concerned at the potential for bother it offered. By the time we arrived at Adelaide, we had a real problem. Our concern was that at the rate the leak was worsening, we would end up asking for spares and a team in a remote location heading north, which would delay us considerably. We took the opportunity to phone the Duty Engineering Officer at Richmond (Sydney), where the Aussie C130s were based, and he quickly offered a prop pull, GITZ change and ground runs. We then called ATFOC with the proposition that it would be folly to turn the "in theatre" assistance down, to break down in Singapore/Bangkok on the way back.

So, next day we transited the one hour or so to Richmond, where Dougie and the rest duly went to sample Sydney. Us two GEs spent the next twelve hours with some great Aussie tradesmen pulling off No2 prop, replacing the GITZ etc etc. We got to the hotel around 2300 local as I remember, and decided to sample Sydney for ourselves. We both had a great night out and arrived back at the hotel, in good time to shower, shave and "shampoo" before the transport arrived. I have some good photographs from that trip, not in my Nav bag, and will post some soon, it may make Dougie chuckle a bit. Perhaps he remembers our Sydney divert.

Smudge:ok:

[chickenlover]

Re the pics posted by A340YY - The 2 low level shots were taken by a friend of mine who lives in the Lakes area, which means they were almost certainly taken at Dunmail Raise, his usual haunt. He was a wildlife enthusiast who was self-teaching photography when one day we clattered past below him. Grumpy that we'd spoiled his shot, he pointed the camera at us and captured one of my favourite photographs of me flying at low level. Being a top bloke, when he got the picture developed, he enlarged it and sent it to the CRO at Lyneham Field. It eventually found me and we've been in touch ever since. I got to take him flying on one of my last trips with the RAF, the formation with 5 Spitfires.

The air to air one, I believe was during the 'official shoot' with Pickers in the lead, that produced some of the best air to air shots of the Herc at that time. I've got copies of the official snaps which I can post if anyone is interested. Similarly, I've got 2 albums full of Adrian's photos from Dunmail Raise if there is an appetite for those ?
Dougie M - I've got some pics from our Charleston escapade I can post if you like :)

[smujsmith]

Chickenlover,

Dunmail raise was a happy haunt for me too (sans camera unfortunately) when I lived up there for a few years in the early naughties. I may well have waved at you in passing. I'm sure we would all like to see some more of your superb shots of Albert, all of the pictures on this thread contribute to the record of a "good old mate"!

Smudge:ok:

[Dougie M]

Further to the Aussie saga above. When the decision was made to go to Richmond with our leaky seal there was much rejoicing from the front end because the weekend beckoned and a prop pull and seal change would have kept us in Sydney for at least 3 days, or even "munce" as one Co put it. We had 3 of them. Even our lovely lady Eng. was making plans to go to Bondi for some mussels or at least I think it was that. Imagine our surprise and delight when Smudge and TT arrived back at the Hyatt in Kingsgate to announce that Albert was "fixed". Wow! we said....so soon?
I have to admit a grudging acknowledgement of some fine recovery work and dedication to the task. It's a bloody shame that they were so good at their job. The voyage still had some spectacular events including the Loadie being seduced by the hotel receptionist in Fannie Bay. when his rear end was covered in mossie bites.
Smudge, I may have maligned TT about Brunei. It was an SVC who was snagged by F**ies daughter so it may not be the same trip. Too many hours (14K) Albert time tends to blend the events. I must write my memoirs.
Dougie

[smujsmith]

Dougie,

I'm sure TT won't mind, he's used to being maligned. Sydney was a great place

And as for the Boomerang Coff;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/f22b9e3e2286ed701d7538a8f340f6ee_zps19897727.jpg
It had been a long night:rolleyes:

Smudge:ok:

[Trumpet_trousers]

The voyage still had some spectacular events including the Loadie being seduced by the hotel receptionist in Fannie Bay. when his rear end was covered in mossie bites.
Well, if you're going to be seduced, I can't think of a better place for it to happen!

[smujsmith]

TT,

I have a photograph of both of the Loadies, either of which could be the one "affected". I've just had another look and can confirm neither look like people ripe for seduction. Im sure the receptionist had lost her glasses, or was it a he:eek:

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Just to close off Alberts escapades at the seaside ... Dougie sent me three cracking pics taken on Pembury Beach. Just helped re-size the images for him :ok:

So I understand that it wasn't too uncommon for Albert to be in the Wash Bay for up to a week to sluice out all the sand and salt along with applying copious amounts of PX24 after such trips ... I wonder what SPF Rating PX24 is :}

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Beachlanding2_zps5d6de26c.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/051Pembreybeach2_zps6642fd41.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/046Pembreybeach2_zpsdf371131.jpg

Thanks for sharing the pics Dougie :ok:

Coff.

[Dougie M]

Thanks Coff
I couldn't have done it better myself. Smudge,....Argh! Looks like a grimmie contest but I can't tell from whose side. Chickenlover, if the ones from Charleston are as bad as that I would rather you didn't post them.
"Speech on this phone is not secure"
Ta
Dougie

[CoffmanStarter]

Herc Thread Combine ...

If there are any Herc Thread followers out there who have Albert pictures (remembering that this is a public forum) but they're not sure how to post them on PPRuNe ... then I'm very happy to help. Just PM me to make contact and we'll go from there :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

Gents ...

I came across this pic a couple of days ago and thought this might be another joyous avenue to add to RAF Alberts Photo Album. Yes we've had some Fighter Famil and AAR pics ... but some hardcore tailgating images would be a nice treat :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/IMG_0868_zpsc128a9fa.jpg

Image Credit : Not Known

I will just add that I'm not sure the C-130 in the above image is one of QE's Finest ... that crewman's bonedome/kit looks a little North American ... but I could be wrong :confused:

[chickenlover]

Worry not Sir Doug, Its my policy to not post pics of people on here without permission -especially if they are interesting-which sadly means I have several thousand unpostable pics !
I think the only one I have of you from CHS is you receiving first aid on your knee in the back of the aeroplane :)
I'll try and get on here later to post some flying pics-I've got some from the beach too - gots to get me chores done first !

[chickenlover]

Like this Coff :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/16652_241230429368_2374835_n-Version2_zpsd73f4f3b.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/16652_241230429368_2374835_n-Version2_zpsd73f4f3b.jpg.html)

This was classified 'Shags in confidence' for many years but its so available now on the internet-not my snap incidentally but I know someone who was there.
Some of the stories circulating about what happened next make me chuckle.

[chickenlover]

Can't remember if I've already shared this one - from the 'Pinky' trials at Kingsfield.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img439_zpsc4ee8375.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img439_zpsc4ee8375.jpg.html)

[smujsmith]

Coff #1602,

That Loadie looks far too underweight to qualify as an RAF model :eek: The scenery looks pretty like 29 Palms, and might suggest USMC activity, particularly with the Harriers. I await being corrected. The beach shots are great, well done on helping Doug post them. Chickenlover, you really do spoil us.

Smudge:ok:

[chickenlover]

Two more 'tailgating' snaps - first, not mine-from a public website

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/limage_05_24_58-Version2_zps21fc31cc.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/limage_05_24_58-Version2_zps21fc31cc.jpg.html)

This one taken from the ramp of a 7th SOS Talon of a 47 Sqn A/C

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img322_zps6677e92a.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img322_zps6677e92a.jpg.html)

The other form of tailgating popular at Lyneham :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/STILL03_zpsdf9ed717.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/STILL03_zpsdf9ed717.jpg.html)

[dragartist]

Must have been Wednesday afternoon, Sports afternoon everyone had to do star jumps. At least he was properly dressed! Pretty cold up there.

[CoffmanStarter]

Well played Chickenlover ... That's the ticket :D

The Bagpipes image ... I just have to ask "who is piping who aboard" :}

Keep em coming old chap :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Drag old mate ... You'll be in trouble when AA62 gets back re LM standard vital statistics :eek:

Oops ... Sorry Drag (Beer next time I see you) ... substitute name <<Smudge >>

[November4]

The photo with the 2 Harriers is not a K as the floor points and side guidance beams are wrong. More likely a US Hercules.

[dragartist]

Not me Coff, It was Smudge who was referring to the waistline of our LMs. I think AA62 would be in favour of Wednesday afternoon sports. The giveaway in the picture of the two AV8s is the absence of the stupid waist belt we were asked to wear. The US system was far superior. How our lot got away with declaring it ALARP I know not when the Mk60/61 was around. AA62 would have picked this up in the HEART report.


Nov4- yes the floor is not a K. Most likely US.


What about the floor with 300 in close formation. I think it could be one of our Js. Again not a K for the reasons Nov4 states. Chickenlover will fill us in


Who cares anyway - great pictures.


Not sure if one of my Fb friends uses the star jump picture in his profile. It may be him.

[November4]

Yes the photo with 300 behind it is taken from a J. The roller is fitted direct to the floor and not into transverse beams that were fitted to the floor points.

[CoffmanStarter]

Cheers November4 ... At least it got us started on 'tailgating' :ok:

[chickenlover]

Unless I've got the pics confused, the 300 pic predates the 'J' by quite a few years....I believe it was taken from a US Herc though. Could be wrong though as I'm wrong quite a lot these days :)

[smujsmith]

Drag #1612,

Thanks for putting it right, it was me who dared to suggest I could not relate the LM on the ramp as RAF, due to his lack of girth !! I'm sure AA62 will have words on his return, meanwhile, let's enjoy the feast that Chickenlover seems to have. I have some tailgating pictures which might be worthy of this thread. Taken by our Nav at the time, a well known Boris of 24, these were taken on trips in and out of Kuwait after cease fire GW1;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/add5b263db9e768f4053d1e90601b244_zpseef175e8.jpg

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/bcebf294fbaeabe704e0a471b2d7388d_zps3f89f59e.jpg

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/3a0a1e197efa167e8428eeadba674163_zpsf9d66a18.jpg

All from the ramp, I'm surprised a Nav knew where the ramp was (no offence Doug). Im sure this one, taken by the very same Boris needs no introduction;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/7a6755f406eeac7bfdfbb1d1d66434f2_zpsf16b2fb5.jpg

Whatever the conflict, in its time the 'K' was there.

Coff #1609, the piper, Perhaps Kilwhang might have an opinion.

Smudge:ok:

[DCThumb]

I remember the nose wheel of that 747'being liberated and taking its place in the 24 Crewroom........until the TV expose revealing spares from that aircraft being sold on the black market. Nose wheel disappeared rapidly (as did loads of other memorabilia I.e Bugis Street sign :( )


BTW - Boris - the original Sheikh y'awad I believe!!

[smujsmith]

DC Thumb,

Spot on with Boris and Sheikh Yawad. I think I posted the story elsewhere on PPRUNE. He was a brave lad, who took up the mantle when our skipper bottled it. If anyone wants a reprise, I can post it again. Great memory.

Smudge:ok:

[smujsmith]

A quick question. Chickenlovers star jump #1607, I notice that the air deflector doors are closed. We're they only used for para door exits ? And what benefits did they offer ? Whilst I was trained to fix them, no one ever told me how they benefitted the paratrooper. I can only suspect that without them, some form of profile airflow would drag the jumper toward the empenage and risk injury. I bet AA62 will know.

Smudge :ok:

[dragartist]

Smudge,
I don't ever recall the deflector doors being used for tailgate parachuting (SL or FF) The star jump pic is probably a Static Line Square most likely the BT80 if post 2000.


VX275 is probably best place to describe the benefits of the deflector doors in AA62s absence. He probably did the early trials.


Understand tailgating from A400M is worse than anything we have known before.

[ExAscoteer]

Ah yes Boris. He of the pickled chilli vodka fame. :ok:

Shortly afer the war he arrived in the bar one happy hour with an alarm clock in the shape of a nasty cheap plastic mosque complete with 'gold' minarets.

You guessed it, it played the 'call to the faithful' instead of having an alarm tone.

After the fourth or fifth such 'call' it got somewhat 'recycled'...

[Brian W May]

The Air Deflectors are closed on that jump. Look like IR sensors to me . . .

[GreenKnight121]

Without the air deflectors the airflow is smooth (and hard) right close to the fuselage - meaning a para exiting via the door is hit hard by fast air as he is halfway out the door - not nice, and can cause injuries, and/or cause the para to start his jump tumbling/spinning rapidly.

The deflectors move the airstream out from the side, and provides a nice pocket of disrupted air outside the door, which is much easier on the body - allowing a more gradual insertion into the airstream, reducing injuries and improving the para's control of his own body at the start of the jump.

[Hempy]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/h3mpy/15EEEE37-3F91-48A6-A470-2D27A3AD1233.png_zpsmqy0vip3.jpeg

[Trumpet_trousers]

Understand tailgating from A400M is worse than anything we have known before.

Your understanding is incorrect

[A340Yumyum]

A first and a last for me:

1. Taking part in a 15-ship
2. Low-level to a DZ (anyone recognise it?) in Scotland ON A SUNDAY!!. Perfectly clear and calm - a day I'll never forget....


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan2_zps7674d9ea.jpeg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan5_zpsc327606c.jpeg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan6_zps5afd5bf0.jpeg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan3_zps2ebc3adc.jpeg


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan4_zps8600d066.jpeg

[A340Yumyum]

Anyone recognise this wonderful place (Gulf War 1991)???

(Identities protected)


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan7_zps5b710c08.jpeg



En-route Nairobi - Akronelli (with trophies)!


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan_zps08fea931.jpeg

[A340Yumyum]

And finally......


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan3_zpsb5e760f3.jpeg


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan_zps05d506ba.jpeg


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan4_zps816ad3f4.jpeg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan5_zps95bf3b5b.jpeg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan6_zps21470e8d.jpeg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan7_zps4f4fc12b.jpeg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan8_zps69f2f290.jpeg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan9_zps9300027d.jpeg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan10_zps8aa127e0.jpeg

And, being an ex-AARI, Albert is far too low in position here!!!

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/Scan11_zps027fd5e7.jpeg

[Dougie M]

Absolutely brilliant photos. Not into sun and out of focus like mine. The "Scottish" DZ looks suspiciously like Corby Pike.
Keep them coming
Dougie

[CoffmanStarter]

Simply outstanding A340YY ... Thank you for sharing with us :ok:

[A340Yumyum]

Wish I could claim fame to taking that last lot!

[smujsmith]

A340, superb shots, exactly what the thread is about. Thanks for sharing them, they certainly add to the communal history we all share.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

OK ... Daft question time from me ...

Looking at the last pic ... Has a VC-10 "Supped" from a Herc ? If so have one of you fine Gents got a pic :ok:

[A340Yumyum]

"Looking at the last pic ... Has a VC-10 "Supped" from a Herc ? If so have one of you fine Gents got a pic"

When I was the TAARI (Type Air-to-air-refuelling instructor), we did a trial (no pics in my possession) but the only way for the VC10 to stabilise at a reasonably high power setting (giving it more 'prodability' because of the jet engines) was with Albert at Vno which was impractical.

It was really done as a 'can we do this'? There was no real reason why the '10 would need to prod a Herc.

The fun started when we tried to have a prod on the wing hose from a Tristar - the wing vortex nearly turned us upside down due to our wingspan.......

The centre hose was a bit of a white knuckle ride as well!!

I think Scroggins had attempted this before and advised against it - OC Ops wanted to see it for himself....and he did!

Never tried that again!

Herc to Herc was the easiest; even prodding against the VC10 was up on limits - don't get me started on the Victor!!

[CoffmanStarter]

Cheers A340YY ... I thought it would have been a "can we do this" type experiment ... :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

A340YY ... OK ... if not the Victor ... how about the Vulcan then :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zpsad5dbc0a.jpg

Image Credit : Unknown

Our good friend Pontifex was in the Herc LH Seat on this Boscombe trial I believe ...

[smujsmith]

A340,

Your post backs up my contention of;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/image_zps109d4829.jpg

Prodding perfection for Albert:rolleyes: ASI to MPA back in the late 80s early 90s. And yes, I took this one.

Smudge:ok:

[GreenKnight121]

Some time ago we had a refueling thread - and these were posted:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/Aircraft/Cargo-Transport/SeaVixenrefuelingValiant_zps8f70cfc6.gif (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/Bager1968/media/Aircraft/Cargo-Transport/SeaVixenrefuelingValiant_zps8f70cfc6.gif.html)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/Aircraft/Cargo-Transport/BuccTanksTristar_zpsd51fcccc.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/Bager1968/media/Aircraft/Cargo-Transport/BuccTanksTristar_zpsd51fcccc.jpg.html)

[kilwhang]

Back in 1982, during the first couple of months of the AAR Training courses, we quite often used the Vulcan to practice prodding.
The reason was simple - there was a huge training programme and the Victors were seriously over-stretched.

The Vulcan in the picture has a paint job I don't recognise. If my memory is correct (questionable) the Vulcans we used were all in the standard paint scheme.

I don't remember any adverse comments from our pilots and it was, certainly, an impressive sight from behind.

[Brian W May]

Prodding behind the Victor was a bit taxing, but what a beautiful looking aircraft . . . from the join to the break it was poetry in flight.

Just my 2d worth.

[CoffmanStarter]

GN121 ... Right couple of oddities there ...

Are there any other prodding oddities involving RAF Albert we have missed :confused:

[chickenlover]

Just for you Coff
The last of my ' tailgating ' shots....
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img631_zps1e9153f8.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img631_zps1e9153f8.jpg.html)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img478_zps29091db6.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img478_zps29091db6.jpg.html)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img626_zps293323f9.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img626_zps293323f9.jpg.html)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img633_zps9400febf.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img633_zps9400febf.jpg.html)

This last one was a fun day - Vulcan out of service shoot - we got to fill the A/C with families of crew and ground crew so they could all get a nice view of the Vulcan air to air. Albert really was a good photo platform.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img636_zps52e9aaf9.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img636_zps52e9aaf9.jpg.html)

[CoffmanStarter]

Fantastic ! ... Much appreciated Chickenlover old chap :D

[chickenlover]

And one for you Smuj- a reminder of early morning winter starts and de-icing before heading off to sunny climes :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img632_zpsd590488e.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img632_zpsd590488e.jpg.html)

[smujsmith]

Chickenlover,

If it was with your mob, it was just as often to colder climes. Norway for instance. Great shots and confirmation of Albert as a premier photographic platform. That sky is fantastic.

Smudge:ok:

[Brian W May]

The de-icing pic . . . is that looking towards the Bund Road, it looks like the old QRA bays.

[chickenlover]

Morning all-trying to catch up and keep up with this thread - apologies if some of these have been posted before. Finishing off my collection of AAR shots

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img635_zps26067c55.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img635_zps26067c55.jpg.html)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img394_zpsdaefcbd5.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img394_zpsdaefcbd5.jpg.html)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img397_zps7c994834.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img397_zps7c994834.jpg.html)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img479_zps302f4adc.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img479_zps302f4adc.jpg.html)

[CoffmanStarter]

Nice pics Chickenlover ... you continue to exceed expectations :D:D:D:D

Dougie must have been up early this morning as he dropped me an eMail with a few more pics to share. I'm sure it won't be too long before he's on frequency to add the narrative ... especially about the Turdis :}

All I will say is that he thought we needed a few pics of RAF Albert 'Receiving' ;)

Just helping resize and host the pics for Dougie ... I believe they are all South Atlantic :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Scan0001_zps222a0838.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Scan0007_zps8ac4b62e.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/SAtlanticTanker_zps2c672614.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Scan0006_zps794f26cb.jpg


Over to you Dougie ...

Best ...

Coff.

[Dougie M]

The weather wasn't always as good as this. I have sometimes broken cloud not very high above the sea still toboganning to get the last drop before being told to poke off by the tanker. The Turdis came in quite handy for the post flight easing of springs. Although tho Co said "...and relax!" I never did.
Great photos Chickenlover!
Dougie

[WIDN62]

How sad to see the Turdis in such a dishevelled state. That's what comes of letting Airbridge Navigators use it to "ease springs" before heading off downtown to their 5 start hotel - hey Dougie? It was designed for the aircrew and groundcrew who had to spend the night on Q down at the airhead where the only alternative was the Sapper Crapper.

The Turdis was built by our groundcrew around April 1983. The blue light was from the taxiway and had been damaged by a passing Albert and had been replaced. Inside we had a standard RAF torch in the ceiling, a jerry can, stirrup pump and hose for flushing purposes. The business part was the bowl of a VC10 toilet. They found the part number and demanded one through official channels. Nobody asked why a Herc Det in the South Atlantic would want one of those, but they sent it.

I have a photo of the opening ceremony. The Brigadier from HQ BFFI did the official opening and signed the visitors book but declined to "perform" so it was left to OC Herc Det (me) to christen the facility.

The Turdis became famous and so popular that eventually we had to keep it locked to stop every airbridge passenger from using it before 12 hours in the back of Albert.

I have no idea how to post photos but have one or 2 from those times that might be of interest if anybody fancies doing the difficult bit for me.

[CoffmanStarter]

WIDN62 ... I'll willingly help you ... Check your PM's :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Good morning Chaps ...

Here are the pics from WIDN62 ... I'm sure it won't be too long before he pops up on frequency to add the narrative.

Just to help ... I believe the first three pics are from the South Atlantic ... leading off with the Official Opening Ceremony of the Turdis ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Scan0004_zpsd647f2e0.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Scan0003_zpse7b32e8a.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Scan0005_zps294d2704.jpg

I'll leave WIDN62 to tell us more on this one ... another cracking image of Albert :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Scan0008_zps2bd6572d.jpg

Happy to help if anyone else has pics but not sure how to post them ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

I've deliberately posted this image separately given the solemnity of the occasion.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Scan0007_zps88fe8343.jpg

The image is of Royal Navy relatives over the war grave sites taken a year after the end of the Falklands war. The ALM can be seen laying wreaths off the ramp.

Still a very poignant image ...

Coff.

PS. WIDN62 ... I hope you don't mind that I added the above text as I felt I just couldn't post the image on it's own without explanation.

[CoffmanStarter]

Here's a pic seen recently by our good friend Dragartist. Apparently this is thought to be the last ever Vulcan-Victor formation. The picture was taken from a Hercules in 1991 by the Co-Pilot. Any takers on who took the pic (PPRuNe Call Signs only) :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/10505624_829816577049339_6741691991623032594_n_zpsa8ab82f8.j pg

Coff.

[chickenlover]

This link may only work for those with f@rcebook accounts-but it discusses the above pic and there are more of the Vulcan press shoot for those interested.
https://www.facebook.com/VulcanXH558/photos/pb.170427449654925.-2207520000.1413115467./829816577049339/?type=3&theater

[Mal Drop]

Taken by NATO Reporting Name 'Bonny Lad' - a most excellent chap who caused significant breathing difficulties for the RAF contingent at his wedding by selecting a hymn with the line 'the purple headed mountain'.

[WIDN62]

Thanks to Coff for posting my photos. Nothing else to add about the Falklands air-to-air photos and I am not sure of the occasion for the UK one – maybe one of the Green Barrows events. One more snippet about the Turdis – it was constructed over the old airport cesspit vent hole, and as far as I know we did not fill it up!
Flying the relatives of those killed during the war was the most emotional I have been whilst flying Albert. We had on board the father of one of the Harrier pilots killed down there. He was the only RAF relative who had made the journey down so we looked after him on the flight deck. At one stage I put him in the right hand seat and during our conversation, I told him we knew where to fly for the Navy war graves but nobody could really tell us where his son had been lost. He said that the only thing that mattered was that somebody had made the effort to get him down there. When we landed every passenger thanked us for the flight – not often that happens!

[CoffmanStarter]

I came across this little gem this afternoon ... and thought I'd share the link :ok:

British Pathé Sep 1967 : The Hercules for the RAF ... The first of the initial 66 ...

Hercules For RAF - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/hercules-for-raf/query/royal)

Starring 36 Squadron and XV194 ... I think 194 suffered damage deemed 'uneconomic to repair' in Tromsø Norway in 1972 ... thankfully no crew injuries.

[smujsmith]

Nice spot Coff,

Here's one for Doug M, I reckon the J/T is carrying an F or C comp in that clip, did Albert have Doppler in those days ? If not as I've guessed anyone any ideas ?

I found this one today, and no prizes for naming the "cast list":

BRITISH RAF C130 OVER SARAJEVO WITH SNIPER FIRE 1992--JON DUNCANSON - YouTube (http://youtu.be/pTSodmS2K7E)

But, the interview with the soldier at the end of the clip is quite revealing. I suppose it can be put down to " need to know". I know I saw quite a bit of that place in my time as a GE.


Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Welcome back AA62 ... I'll guess you'll need at least 24 hrs for your blood to work the right way up ... see you soon :ok:

[Dougie M]

With reference to the Sarajevo "sniper" most of the bursts of ground fire weren't at all well aimed. In an accompanying pic from Rhobabwie which features in earlier pages we picked up a 7.62 AK 47 round just between the A/C Number and the White Cross . Notwithstanding the devastating and tragic events in Iraq much later which shade all previous incidents, it was quite uncommon for Albert to get perforated. Ops in Zim were carried out at about 100ft above the trees and at 240kts giving brief pockets of exposure to the terr..freedom fighters. Cresting a ridge on the way to Chipinda Pools there was a thud which was assumed to be a bird strike. A common occurrence since H**** B******* had taken out a whole flock just previously. On landing the hole was discovered which penetrated the radome conditioning system and took out the spike thermostat. We had only dumped the LOX that morning. The despatcher said that he saw at least 10 tracer come up at us below and above the aircraft. The Zanu PF were in the habit of loading one tracer in every three in the mag of the best marksman and everybody else fired where he aimed. So we copped one out of thirty. Very lucky.
In reply to previous posts. Smudj: If I did one comp change on the Herc for another duff one which hadn't been replaced I must have done at least a dozen. and WIDN The Upland Goose was never 5*.
Cheers:ok:
Dougie

[CoffmanStarter]

Just helping Dougie M out with his pics ... he'll be along shortly :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/bulletholeflakalice_zpsd58335ef.png

[Brian 48nav]

The guy on the right ( as you look at the photo' ) was a loadie on 48 at Changi '67-'69, then I think went to 24.


Paul D?????? -I can't remember his surname - top man as I recall.


I thought he left the mob and became a civilian flying instructor and a vague recollection of being told he went back in as a loadie.

[smujsmith]

Brian 48 Nav,

The bloke on the left, next to young Dougie M, is the GE. I know that because he has an extremely large lump in the top left pocket, that will be his wallet, and secondly, he was my boss when I was a GE. Curiously, it has taken until the appearance of this photograph, and this thread to realise that he actually once did the job himself. Respect.

Smudge:ok:

[1.3VStall]

XV176 - as I recall that was the lowest serial number of the RAF Hercs, but not the first airframe to be delivered.

[A340Yumyum]

Don't know any history behind this pic, but impressive!


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/ridmavor/5034_zpsbfff1778.jpg

[Stretchwell]

Chickenlover's camera and me in the LHS, GF in the right ! Early Jan 1991. :-))

[CoffmanStarter]

That's one of the best pics I've seen of a RAF Albert :D:D:D:D

[chickenlover]

I've been in the boozer this evening, so won't break my rule of 'drinking and forum posting' I'll post some more pics from that trip tomorrow. The picture was indeed taken on my camera but we are not sure if the Nav or I took it. It's better than my average pic so it probably was the Nav. I tried to print from the neg recently for the Captain of the subject A/C as he had lost his original - sadly despite spending a fortune on an archival neg storage folder, the neg was very scratched and marked. In the meantime heres one of my digital copies - can't tell from my screen if its better than the one already posted.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img019-Version2_zps9dfe06c3.jpg

[smujsmith]

Chickenlover,

Cracking shots of Terry, pre pink Camo job. How nice to credit the Nav with the capture, whoever took it, it's a cracking photograph, and has reminiscences for a lot of old blokes like me.

Smudge:ok:

[Brian W May]

Brian 48Nav

Dowell?, yep lovely guy.

[CoffmanStarter]

Difficult to judge ... 50 feet ?

[upgently]

Hi Brian's x2, ie Brian W May & Brian 48 Nav

Tis I, the man on the right of the crew photo above and you are correct in your assumption that it is Paul Dowell

I am humbled by your thoughtful assessments and thank you both for your published views.

I did indeed leave the RAF in 1980 to follow my dream of becoming a commercial pilot and went to live in the USA for three years where I flew for a small company supplying the oil industry in central USA and as you rightly say I also spent my time instructing American, Afican and Middle East students in the joys of instrument flight.

As a result of the 1983 oil crisis returned to the UK, married and then did a spell on the outside before returning to the RAF and spent around 11 wonderful years on SAR.

Sad really, a life story wrapped up in three paragraphs but a life with absolutely no regrets.

[chickenlover]

A few more pics from the same set;
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img504_zps545a25a1.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img512_zps4a4d5fbb.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img498_zps7ee927bf.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img503_zps44674b8c.jpg

What it looked like from inside

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img519_zps5d3bcb9b.jpg

More to come later-Just off for a coffee with one of the other contributors here so will compare notes. Coff - If I recall, the height of the fin was 35 feet so I would say a bit lower. We had done some work up training against a Roland site that had tracked us down to depressingly low altitude - the theory was the missile would fuse off the ground if we were low enough i.e. below 30 feet. Everyone had an individual comfort level how low they would / could fly. Personally any lower than 70 feet sapped my and the crews capacity quickly - the focus was too close off the nose - the next sand dune was always a fast approaching threat. I felt lower than that and nobody was looking out for bad guys. Not to mention that an evasive turn at that low level would drag a wingtip through the dirt and lead to a cartwheeling fiesta of sound and light :eek:

[Wander00]

What makes me laugh, seeing these and other photos, is that when I went through training, if you wanted to fly other than fighters you were well below the salt. Flying large aircraft at low level is every bit as demanding as fighter flying - and the bigger guys cannot hit back, other than by flying sharper than the other guy. Big respect.

[A340Yumyum]

Chickenlover, I have a pristine 12/8 of original. Happy to send if you want to scan a copy. PM me for details.

[Brian 48nav]

Hi Paul, Great to see that you responded to our posts. I wonder if you are interested in reunions? If so, the 48 association has got going again and is planning a bash to celebrate the centenary of the squadron's formation, sometime in April 2016.


PM me with your email address and I'll send on the secretary's details. There are a few loadies from your time as members. Talking of SAR, when I was at Stornoway ( 80-82 ) a SAR Sea King lobbed in for some reason and although the crewman was well covered with headset etc I recognised his voice - George Muir who had been on 30 with me in the early 70s.


Regards Brian Wildey ( the young good-looking nav' 45 years ago!!! )

[chickenlover]

Scanned a few more this pm

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img652_zpsc4442b16.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img651_zps202d0546.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img650_zpsec7e9180.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img649-Version2_zps0970cb13.jpg

And a slightly different version of the earlier one

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img507_zps89d41efa.jpg

Thanks for the offer A340YY will be in touch.

[CoffmanStarter]

Many thanks again for sharing your pics with us Chickenlover :D :ok:

[chickenlover]

Last lot for today-really must go and get on with some jobs :)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img653_zps2cda6956.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img011_zps2879d5a3.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img654_zps9f049850.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img017-Version2_zps3cf7b6f7.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img456_zps74a1e6d7.jpg

[54Phan]

Great photos! Thanks for sharing them.:ok:

[Brian W May]

Knockout piccies, having been low levelling for years and in Fat Albert, I realise we were only nibbling at the edges! Thanks (reckon I've found my next desktop piccy).

Upgently: See your PMs

[smujsmith]

Perhaps I've missed something along the way, but as I started my career on Albert at Colerne in 1971, I seem to remember that there was a squadron still at Fairford, the OCU at Thorney Island and "others at Lyneham. With the main maintenance base being Colerne at the time I wonder where else Albert was in service at the time. I see the Squadron in the Far East mentioned and I know, as I was posted there in 1973, that 70 Squadron operated both Albert and the whistling tit from Akrotiri. It's all a bit confusing, and I'm sure, that someone, far more intelligent than myself, could perhaps put together a timeline showing how Albert was "infused" into the system, eventually ending up operating from one Station ? As I say, apologies if I have missed the information I seek, I'm still trying to work out how Chickenlover can get such good photographs, and still fly at low level:confused: Meanwhile, does anyone have any photographs from Colerne, I had the privilege to begin my career there (ex Halton), yet have no photographs from that time.

Smudge:ok:

[Xercules]

Smug,

The first Albert Sqn was 36 which, I believe, formed with the first deliveries at Colerne in '66. Shortly after 36 moved to Lyneham. There were then 36 and 24 at Lyneham, 30 and 47 at Fairford and 48 at Changi (Singapore). AA62 may be able to give you the date for 48's move back to the UK and Lyneham. 70 was based in Akrotiri and was taking on Hercs with the last crews arriving from 23 Conversion Course (I was on 24!!) in 1971.

30 and 47 moved to Lyneham in '73, if memory serves, with 48 arriving shortly after. 70 came back as well in probably '74. 36 then disbanded in 75 shortly before 48 also disbanding leaving the 4 squadrons you knew well.

One other point that seems to be forgotten was that:sad: originally there was a single SF crew on each squadron before they were all corralled with 47. This was a point I had to argue with my D in MoD (an air defender) who could only envisage SF and 47 thus, he thought, making 47 when it came to various decisions about which hot what and when.

I hope this helps but others may be able to pin it down better.

[smujsmith]

Xercules,

Talk about fast. Thank you very much for that account, which explains most of what I requested and certainly shows that Lyneham, whilst so dear to many of us, did not begin the career of Albert in the RAF. I'm surprised though that the first squadron formed at Colerne, I arrived there in March 71, as I recall, and there was no sign of active flying. The Base 3 team I was employed on produced one air test per month, the Base two teams two. By my reckoning 10 flight tests per month, with possible "follow on" flights, what a sleepy little unit Colerne had become. In my recollection, at the time, we never saw aircraft coming from Fairford, so they must have moved by my time 71-73, but certainly serviced aircraft from Thorney Island (the OCU?) and from 70 in Cyprus. I well remember the crew turning up to relieve us of the contents of the emergency radio compartment (Mainly Cyprus Brandy and 555 cigarettes), after customs had cleared us to work on it. As you say, AA62 may be able to tie my time at Colerne to 48 Squadron. I can't remember hearing of an aircraft from there coming back for Base 2 or 3 servicing, although I distinctly remember one that did the Dacca airlift ?

SF, interesting that that is how their life started. I only knew them from my days as a GE, and was lucky enough to do a few detachments etc with some very professional operators. I wonder if S&D had similar precedent, they of course had their very own GE, who was taught how to make tea and coffee properly at the galley. One of the things that has opened my eyes on this thread is how little I really knew of the History of the C130K in RAF service, despite having minor involvement in some of it. Keep the information coming in chaps, and somebody give Chickenlover a wake up call, he must have more of those splendid photographs.

Smudge:ok:

[November4]

Just come across this old article about the Sarajevo airlift by Caroline Phillips that was in the London Evening Standard, 16 Aug 1993

Joking on the flight of hope

The Hercules in which we are arriving in Sarajevo makes a tactical landing, suddenly nose-diving in case there is small arms fire. The Serbs take more pot shots in the afternoon when they’re drunk, but this is early morning. Still, the crew say they can’t underestimate the threat from the ground.

I feel frightened because, in contravention of the rules, I don’t have a flak jacket. This is Saturday, the day before this same plane is used for Operation Irma.

The homes around the airport have been razed by war and a black cloud of smoke hangs over Mount Igman. Serbs burning villages or villagers making tea, says one of the crew, wryly.

Full article (http://www.carolinephillips.net/images/articles/news/operationirma/operationirma.pdf)

[smujsmith]

November 4,

Well found sir, and it brings back reminders of some hard working time I spent with some great people. I missed "Irma" by a couple of weeks, but the description sounds familiar to this day. I suspect I've posted them before but my fave photos from Ancona/Sarajevo ;

Albert, between trips;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/image_zps95fdf6ae.jpg

The French Foreign Legionnaire was friendly and curious;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/image_zps55c14570.jpg

And the GE's view as we line up for departure.

Happy Daze, as they say.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Well I am back from a very nice visit to Perth and have been reading myself back in to the thread. Some excellent stories and pics. Before I resume my Op Vigour thread I will be answering some of the queries.
48 used to send their Hercs to HAEK at Kai Tak for major servicing, although we did rotate a/c back to the UK for deep servicing.
As to SF crews Xercules is correct in saying there was an SF crew on every squadron. This was known as the 'Pathfinder Crew' and were all PV cleared. I did this job on 45 in Changi and back in the UK. A Flt Cdr on one of the squadrons, S/L 'Red L.... I seem to recall, wrote a service paper recommending that a separate flight be set up to cope with the increased SF tasking. You will not be surprised to hear that this was when the NI 'troubles were brewing up.
One of his sub recommendations was that they should have suitably equipped dedicated a/c. The crew recommendation was acted on and the crews were attached to 36 (the first RAF Herc squadron) and then 47 when 36 was disbanded. The dedicated a/c did not materialise until MANY years later when it was apparent even to MOD that they were essential.
I have a memory of the first a/c to arrive at Colerne being XV 179 despite XV 176 being the earliest serial.

[ancientaviator62]

I came back from Changi in early July 1971 (I was earmarked for the OCU) and the rest of the Squadron followed fairly soon after. Huge culture shock ! We lost our own groundcrew and arrived to VAT and the decimal currency.
Feel very grateful now though to have had such a great tour.

[CoffmanStarter]

Welcome back AA62 ... Good to see you old chap ... Glad you had a great time :ok:

[nimbev]

One other point that seems to be forgotten was that:sad: originally there was a single SF crew on each squadronXercules, I dont remember having designated SF crews when I was on 24 in 1968. On the larger stream drops a 'more experienced' crew was generally given the lead. I seem to remember a variety of names being given to this role aka 'Master Bomber' although I cant remember the precise terminology!
We all had pretty minimal hours on the Herc which was reflected in our Categories - No B Cats around then and very few C either. The requirement to have a C Cat to carry pax was waived as otherwise nobody would have gone anywhere.

[smujsmith]

AA62,

Welcome back, glad to hear you enjoyed yourself. An old ex GE mate who you might be acquainted with (T****r T*****on), who has certainly accompanied you on routes, has recently reminded me of the story of the pongo who wanted to go out with the load. ISTR having dangled it at you previously, then failed to post it. Anyway as you are back, I thought you might have some knowledge of this, here's the text of TT's email;

"AA62 asked you about an incident regarding something or someone going out with a load, which I think was something I mentioned to you so, I will recount it for you to put on PPRUNE if you wish. I was assigned to an aircraft, as the AGE, which was going to airdrop a Landover + trailer onto Keevil. An Army Officer turned up as a pax & showed much interest in the live drop. The Loadie was very twitchy about the load & briefed me & the Army Officer not to go beyond the load as it was all rigged to go & he did not want the worry of people moving around it. When we were on approach to the DZ the Army Officer asked the Loadie how he got into the Landover. Perplexed the Loadie asked why. My troops are on the ground watching this drop & it will impress them when they see me get out of the Landover. Obviously the Loadie told him in no uncertain terms he would not be parachuting on to the DZ today."

So, any recollection, of the incident. I for one don't doubt the veracity of TT's story, perhaps, coming from the ALM fraternity you may have heard of it, or similar.

Smudge :ok:

[Xercules]

SS - you are quite right to remind me of Thorney Island. The OCU was there with 5 ac until 74/75. All training was carried out there originally including TS except for simulators for which we had to go to Lyneham.

Nimbev - again you are quite right. The SF crews were a later concept coming into being in 72. I was the copilot on the 36 crew, captained by Rick H..... Who was about 2 yrs younger than I and a Fg Off whilst I was a Flt Lt. Red L.... (Or should that be Rrrrred) was the Flt Cdr on 36 to whom we reported. He was a great guy with many stories to his name because of hi stutter and a wife who could be something of a loose cannon. The SD crew was then on 36 as well, captained by Sc..... Rob...... Who also did the first RAF Deep Freeze.

Doing SF tasks then was something of a challenge. We did one exercise in Northern Greece doing re supply to the patrols in the field. The patrols recede the DZs they wanted their supplies dropped to then retired to lie up for the day. They then radioed in the co-ordinates of each Dz, we did our planning and set the time for each drop. To comply with GASOs we had to designate each DZ as the TAP of the next one otherwise needing to climb above safety height.

The patrols would then after dark return to their chosen DZ to mark it for the drop. Unfortunately a DZ can also be attractive terrain for other users. One patrol returned to find it taken over as a tank laager for the night. Nothing daunted move a small distance away and mark accordingly. "Mark accordingly" meant 3 hand held torches but no good SF troop relies on a full torch and the lens is usually covered with bodge tape leaving nothing but a tiny hole - not easily seen from 250 ft up especially when the Dz is possibly 2 km from where it was planned to be. At least 2 loads went out in a screaming turn because of late acquisition, one of them was never found. What pissed the troops off the most was the lost mail. Rations did not really seem to matter.
They have it easy nowadays with all the modern gizmos they have but enough said of that!!

[ancientaviator62]

We did have the pre 'SF' crew on 48 as the 'Pathfinder Crew' and did the FEAF 'SF' task out there. I have entries in my log book to this effect. We used to airland with the Special Forces using very dim torches. No NVG then. Gong Keddar was one of the places we used for para and airland. The old airfield at Sembawang was also used and I still remember us turning low over the docks. Jungle drops were done on top of a tethered helium balloon. Where we dropped the SBS I have no idea ! Perhaps Brian the Nav knows.
We also dropped the Malaysian Special Forces.
It was Xercules flight commander of course who I believe wrote the Service Paper setting up the SF flight.
When I returned to the UK I continued in that role on 48 until I went to the OCU as an airdrop instructor. It had by then reformed at Lyneham and another superb station was well on the way to becoming an army base.http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/STRIPUPCOUNTRYKENYA_zpsc8e35d33.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/STRIPUPCOUNTRYKENYA_zpsc8e35d33.jpg.html)

Back to Op Vigour .
Pic of one of our two a/c at one of the strips we used. You may remember my tale ref the three engine ferry in post #1549. Well after that life went on as routinely as these things can until we received a signal from group. Baroness Chalker the Minister for Overseas Development would be arriving on a tour of inspection to see how the relief op was going. Full details would be sent later. You may recall that the op was jointly funded by her department and MOD. No problem we thought, the boss might have to do a meet and greet but the rest of us would be unaffected.
Then THAT signal arrived !
TBC

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
I wonder why they took a G/E on a drop at Keevil. I have no recollection of doing so but with my memory who knows ? NO ONE went aft of the heavy drop load after the final checks had been completed when I was the ALM unless very closely escorted by me AND they had a good reason to do so. The potential for something going wrong was real enough as it was. Some non AD army personnel did not understand the forces involved but the temptation to put some fool in the landrover must have been high.
Apart from the role equipment fitters and some others we rarely carried spare bods on heavy drop sorties. If we did my brief was simple. They remained at FS 245 until I signalled otherwise. This would only be once the drop had exited and we all trundled aft to check the parachutes had opened.

[smujsmith]

AA62,

Not sure why a GE would be on such a trip. I certainly never did anything so adventurous, only ever being involved with troop dropping, and often at some distance from base. I remember we dropped some Hereford Hooligans at RAF Ouston one Saturday night, then landed and night stopped at Newcastle Airport. We are out to dinner with TT tonight, I will pursue the tale.

Smudge:ok:

Update for AA62. The trip had a GE on it because between departing Lyneham and dropping at Keevil, they night stopped Lossiemouth. Hope that clears that one up. :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
longest way to Keevil I ever heard of !

[ksimboy]

Sounds Scottacish AA62, back in the days when we used to fly bigger loads than jerry cans of water ( never to be frozen!)

[Brian 48nav]

Just wanted to clarify some of the dates.


The first Herc' XV176 made its maiden flight at Marietta on 19th Oct '66 and arrived at Marshalls in late '66 for painting and avionics gear to be installed.


242 OCUat Thorney received its first in April '67 ( as the first baby nav to receive a Herc posting I was 'holding' and saw it arrive ) and 36 formed at Lyneham on 1st July '67. One of the first delivered,I can't remember if it was 176 or 179, went to Boscombe and was there for a few years.


48 reformed at Changi on 2nd Oct, but I think the crews may have collected the first 4 aircraft from Colerne a few a few days before. I was part of the third wave of 4 aircraft for 48 and we went to Colerne for a week or so before Christmas '67 and finally arrived at Changi on Dec' 31st.


24 reformed at Lyneham in Feb '68, followed by 47 on 1st Mar and 30 on 1st May, both at Fairford. 30 & 47 moved to Lyneham on 1st Feb '71. 48 arrived at Lyneham from Changi on 1st Sep '71 and disbanded on 9th Jan '76.


70 received its first Hercs in Dec' '70 ( about a year late according to my mate Art C...... ) and moved to Lyneham on 15th Jan '75. Most of these dates I've gleaned from RAF Squadrons by Jefford ( an ex-nav' so they must be right ;)! ).


I was on 30's pathfinder crew in 72/3 with Ed Waddingham as skipper and Joe Oldfield as the other nav - sorry guys I can't recall the other three - an we were PV cleared.

[smujsmith]

Brian 48 Nav,

That's a nice, accurate, account of the introduction to service. And nice to see that Colerne gets a mention, particularly as it ties in to AA62 recollecting the link with 48 Squadron. I'm sure that Marshalls of Cambridge should also take some credit for their work and support of the Aircraft in service. There was certainly a large element of MCE interwoven with the Base 2 and 3 teams at Colerne in my time there 71-73.

Ksimboy,

Having just returned from an enjoyable evening with the said TT, I had no intimation that it was a Scottac. Who knows, I'm sure we have all done some "funny" jobs during our time on the K. I'm sure that someone had a grasp of the "big picture". I relate the following event. I'm employed as a GE, and my best mate (the boss GE) decided that I am to be rewarded for my hard work with a couple of days camping at Keevil, doing an Army infil exercise. The troops were a mix of Para and Ghurka, and myself and the lineys were not too impressed with the two hour low level ride from Lyneham to Keevil. Sarcasm at its extreme, we could have driven there. The muppets did drive there, and when we eventually arrived, they had a tent, and Landrover set up for our, and their use. The Landrover was "Muppet only" ! Surrounded by white lashing tape, we were officially not part of the wargames being played beyond. Our job was to see in and out the resupply aircraft. A late call to see in an aircraft that was on finals elicited a maximum effort from our Muppet brethren, who duly roared off in their 4WD jobby. In the process of racing directly, across the grass, to the parking area, they didn't realise that they had run over the legs of a Ghurka soldier, disguised as a patch of grass. He was casevaced on the aircraft they were racing to attend, and had a full recovery in another one of our RAF treasures, RAF Wroughton Hospital. Suffice to say that the Army were not impressed, in fact, none of us were impressed, but the incident did perhaps signal the end of realistic exercise conditions. After that, any exercise I was involved in certainly involved an element of H & S. As an aside, whilst doing what old GEs do (reminiscing) this evening, your name was mentioned at least twice by TT, interesting that you should post whilst I was out:ooh:

Smudge:ok:

[chickenlover]

Just for you Smudge - memories of Keevil....

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img618_zpsd870fbd0.jpg

Was in the 5 Bells this week with some old faces from Lyneham - should have a couple of interesting pics being scanned soon.

[dragartist]

Welcome back AA62. Hope all is well.


CL- do you mean the 5 Bells at Broadwell? Spent a few evenings there when we used to go out on our bicycles from the mess at Brize. Often came back without lights having made way for one more.


Your pic of Keevil brought back memories. Did several drops there. Last C130 was the last of the last Adux to use them up. My last visit there was with Evalu8er in 2010 doing drops from something else. PPRuNe has brought us back together. Sorry no pics available.


Drag

[ancientaviator62]

THAT signal arrived soon enough. The minister would be supported by a team and there would be some media reps. They would fly to Nairobi on a VC10.
Then followed the itinerary.
Nairobi-Wajir-Nairobi (NS)-Baidoa-Mogadishu-Djibouti (NS)-Hargeisa-Nairobi.
The bombshell was that all transport was to be provided from 'in theatre resources'. A phrase I will never forget ! It meant that we would have to use one of our (two) a/c to do this task. Not only for the duration of the task but at least the day before to turn this sow's ear of a 'K' into something resembling a silk purse.
The boss then handed me the Socratic cup by designating me the project officer and Aircraft Commander. I was going to have to live with my errors and omissions for the whole task. He had the unenviable job of telling the USAF Commander. JOhttp://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/MOGADISHU_zps73bc2b81.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/MOGADISHU_zps73bc2b81.jpg.html)
Pic of Mogadishu.
TBC

[ancientaviator62]

dragartist,
thank you apart from jet lag all is indeed well and I am picking up the thread of my Op Vigour saga. A pound for every time Keevil appears in my log books especially when I was an airdrop instructor on the OCU.

[smujsmith]

Chickenlover,

That's a fine picture. Fortunately, being of the GE variety, my visits there were infrequent. Unlike AA62 and the rest of you, who did the driving and dropping. I can't wait for the rest of the ministerial visit, it has potential:rolleyes:

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

The boss nominated a 30 Sqn crew complete with their usual G/E. The make up of the rest of the team was left to me. An extra ALM, the lady MO (the sgt medic would cover in Mombasa) and four of the RAFP security team were the obvious choices. The four security chaps would not be sufficient to comply with their duty rules but they did their usual excellent job without complaint.
Attention now turned to the role equipment we would need for the task. We used to have a weekly resupply a/c visit the detachment and fortunately there was just time to catch the next one. The famous 10G loo, so well described by upgently, was requested as were some ex Beverley seats. Other odds and ends were added to the list. It was obvious from the itin that we would be carrying at least a pallet load of relief supplies into the LZs so that actual a/c role fit was defining itself.
Someone had suggested we ask for the VIP caravan but I vetoed that on space and comfort grounds ! It is an awful bit of kit.
Appointing me Aircraft Commander had set up potential friction between myself and the a/c captain. I sorted this by stressing that in the air he made all the decisions whilst I would take over on the ground. As we all know the irritation. exasperation and sheer b.....ation all occur on the ground. We usually experience a sense of karma once the wheels leave terra firma .
He was happy with this ! There are two tales of this trip that I will not relate in an open forum. However should you ever meet me and ply me with more than the recommended daily alcohol units then you may well get the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth !
TBC

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/VIGOURA0002_zps6bc77651.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/VIGOURA0002_zps6bc77651.jpg.html)

Typical offloading party at one of the strips on Op Vigour. It will not escape smudge's eagle eye that the 'no go' item is securely fitted just forward of the para door !

[2port]

Read the first pages of this thread a few months ago, then thought nothing more of it - now I've got 80+ pages to get through!

Here's my starter for ten....

Hope the tinypic link works, if it does will hunt out some more.

As others have said - wish I had taken more photos at the time.

2P

http://i60.tinypic.com/11gtybt.jpg

[2port]

... it worked, so here are the next two...

2P

http://i59.tinypic.com/1il4ky.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/xoe790.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Welcome aboard 2Port ... stay a while, have a coffee and enjoy :ok:

Pics are most welcome ;)

[2port]

Helping out the Frenchies in deepest darkest Africa...

2P


http://i59.tinypic.com/u6juq.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/2rh8aqp.jpg

[ancientaviator62]

2Port,
great pics of the view from the ALM 'office. Keep them coming. Not only did I not take enough pics but have carelessly lost a boxfull during one of the house moves. When were you with the 'K' ?

[2port]

Couple more from completely different parts of the globe...

Cheers, more to follow once found, scanned, copied etc...

2P

http://i61.tinypic.com/21kczk9.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/vglj7a.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/jslru0.jpg

[smujsmith]

AA62 #1707,

Obviously taken on the ground, the no go device isn't occupied by its normal incumbent:eek:

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Smudge,
on Op Vigour the 'usual incumbent' did not have the chance to use the no go item. We just left it in situ as being the safest place to store it. Besides it was useful for stowing kit on.
Op Vigour.
The day before we were due to fly to Nairobi to pick up our pax all the crew went in to help role and clean up XV 187 as best we could in the circumstances. I went over to the USAF HQ to get an int brief. This was long on reassurances and short on facts. Nairobi and our usual strips were not the concern. Neither was Djibouti as I knew the French still used the place.
Hargeisa was the great unknown for me. Before the civil war it had been a busy place but now was bereft of ATC and any of the normal facilities. It was in the self proclaimed Republic of Northern Somalia which was not recognised by the UN.
Google will provide you with the background story.
Still group would not send an a/c, crew and a VIP to anywhere in harms way would they ? No option but to get on with it.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/VIGOURE0002_zpsdae50e35.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/VIGOURE0002_zpsdae50e35.jpg.html)

Approach to one of the strips used on Op Vigour. Sometimes a low LZ inspection was required to check for stray animals and people. Once or twice we seemed low enough to identify the type of ant inhabiting the area !

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ... I hope you don't mind me dropping this in here ;)

Here's a little extra for AA62 and Dragartist ... I suddenly remembered that Episode 1 of the BBC Test Pilot series from 1986 covered a Test Drop with a 30 Ton load from the, then, new stretched C-130K C3 :8

Starring Albert 223 with F/L Dave Carpenter TP ... Time Marks 1:56 Start 5:19 End ... but watch the lot if you like :ok:

test pilot episode 1 - YouTube

Let's see if we can add a bit more background to the video clip if we can ...

[Typhoon93]

Awesome images.

[dragartist]

Thanks Coff, great find. back in 86 I was still playing with Andovers, Nimrods VC10 and helicopters various. Did not get into dropping stuff till 95 - finished in 2011. I certainly recall watching the series and discussing same.


VX275 would have been on the trials team back then. 30 tons! are you sure? HSP certainly with the load protection frame which we found in early 2000s that it always had been outside of the permitted envelope (No wash away) A slow extraction may have taken the tail out had the platform over-rotated.


I wonder if folks think the chutes had split up the side? They were made that way to be repaired by replacing modules . The design goes back to the early 50s I have a copy of an advert from Flight dated 1956 (the year before we were born) describing a 22,000 lb drop using those chutes from the Beverley. I will dig it out from the bowels of my computer.


A400M should be doing two 16 ton platforms by now. I note that they managed 24 single one tons a few weeks back (In Cazaux using our UK SC15 chutes- well done Pike!) Not sure what we can do from the J these days. Certainly not 16 tons or even the HSP. just goes to show how good the K was.

[sycamore]

The narrator said it was 30 tons,but Dave Carpenter said 30000lbs...
Don`t think the trim sheet would cover 30 tons,well outside MZFW/extra w/relief etc,but AA62 will correct...
Once got commandeered to be co-pilot on the B-D Beverly to handle the `engine-room`,and maintain about 10 ft.wheel height on a 30k ULLA drop on the Plain.....that was a `fun` few seconds.....

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks Sycamore ... I've just replayed the track and picked up the 30k lbs reference ... missed it first time ;)

[ancientaviator62]

As sycamore has said the TP has it correct, 30000 lbs, the narrator is incorrect. As I have mentioned before the heaviest airdrop load I ever dropped was 42000 lbs in triple ULLA. I think the 'book' max quoted load for the 'K' was 45000 lbs. I have the DVD of the TP course and when I first watched it I was surprised they were using the virtually extinct HSP for these trials. Much more telling I think would have been a double MSP or the triple ULLA.
The video is very good but like all of them it does not convey the noise, vibration and the sheer violence of a heavy drop especially a double MSP.
If there is a snag and the platform does not leave the a/c but the reefed (approx one third of their flying diameter) main parachutes do then it will be endex. Once those huge parachutes fully open then the a/c would struggle !
We used to reckon that actually the load and all the role fittings would be torn from the cargo compartment and given the forces involved it would be airborne before it reached the ramp. I am sure dragartist could flesh out this doomsday scenario rather more scientifically than I.

[ancientaviator62]

Op Vigour.
Came the day and we traveled in to Mombasa to position the a/c at Nairobi ready for the tour. Before we left Mombasa I had the first of those ground aggravations from a member of the team no less.
The doctor had sensibly brought along a med pack which was carefully stowed on the G/E's no go item out of harms way. She then produced a small box saying that it had to be kept chilled at all times. It was anti snake bite serum. Like many people she was under the (mistaken) impression the the 'K' had a proper refrigerator, a smaller version of the domestic kind which ran 24/7.
I explained the situation, that it was only an insulated box and only cool when filled with dry ice, a commodity not always available. Of course she wanted to put it in there anyway. I said no. I pointed out that there was a far greater chance of medical problems if the frozen meals were not kept chilled than the remote possibility of snakebite. I have never heard of snakebite amongst the 'K' crews at least not the type of snake we were discussing ! I was then told I would be held responsible for this act to which I readily agreed. I wrote out a chit absolving her of all responsibility and stuck the box under the para seats.
So off we went to Niarobi.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/VIGOURB0002_zps6f4aa1ee.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/VIGOURB0002_zps6f4aa1ee.jpg.html)

Typical dusty departure from one of the strips.

[smujsmith]

AA62,

Your description of heavy drop extraction, and the possible ramifications of a load jamming don't bear thinking about. I'm sure there must have been a few close shaves during its career. I must say that my impression of the dynamics of it was that once deployed the chutes simply stopped forward movement of the load, allowing the aircraft to "fly away". With some forward momentum that would put the load "speed over the ramp" at roughly the flying speed of the aircraft. 0 - 100 plus in the length of the freight bay, and 42K at that. As I've said previously, as a GE I rarely saw any real dropping, it's good to get an insight into it now.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ...

Seeing the HF washing-line aerial in the above pic and knowing of your other interests ... were 'on the ground' HF comms effective with Architect from places like Africa or was there more reliance on land line based Comms to contact UK Ops ?

[Dougie M]

The heaviest "HSP" I was involved with despatching was a Muirhill Tractor, an earth moving bulldozer and we were at maximum permissible drop load.
I was on JATE at the time and at Larkhill DZ the brief was that in the event of the extractor chute not deploying we would avoid all built up areas on the way to Boscombe and in the event of a jammed load we would attempt to crash straight ahead. The prospect of 5 x 60ft chutes fully deployed out the rear were deemed too much drag to stay airborne in that configuration. The Loadie, the diminutive M*** Mc*** volunteered to dress aft and cut the risers and admitted that it would just give him something to do before we and Black Ball Firs became close acquaintances.
The drop sequence was the longest 25 seconds of my life as my "green On" ADS switch went across and the Loadie said "Extractor Release".
There then followed a pause which still causes sweaty palms as I recall the effects of the deploying main chutes.
The captain started pushing the controls forward to counter the increasing nose up attitude as the copilot started advancing the throttles to counter the increasing loss of airspeed. Life seemed to slow down as both pilots hands were now against the dials at max power and full nose down before the Loadie's slightly squeaky voice said "Load Moving"
There followed a surreal interlude of "Load Gone", nose up, power back, recover control, height, attitude and situation awareness when the Eng. said, "I think you overtorqued No1."
Life speeded up again. My green light was still on where I left it and the captain declared that all his constipation problems were now solved.
On our return the Air Portability section were advised that if they wanted that thing in theatre they should send it by Fred. Olsen Lines.

[GreenKnight121]

The US Navy's C-130G, which has "increased structural strength allowing higher gross weight operation", has the following payload limits according to the SAC, which can be found on page 5 here: http://www.history.navy.mil/planes/c-130.pdf

Design Maximum Payload: 34,965 lb
Maximum Payload Overload: 45,000 lb
Payload with Design Maximum fuel: 19,373 lb.

[Xercules]

Coff, the washing line was indeed effective both on the ground and in the air. I think we had the most effective HF amongst the AT Force because of its crudity. I well remember one dark and stormy night trying to get hold of Architect as we departed Gander. No answer was the stern reply but after 2 or 3 attempts Gan offered help - as clear as if he was sitting in the other pilot's seat. What I was after was some UK forecasts and within moments Gan provided them as if such requests were his normal traffic.

More Imoor tangly: you may recall that telephones at Mount Pleasant were in short supply for calls home. We on 1312 used to call Portishead Radio from the parking stand. Transfer charge call and communication with SWMBO was clear and simple - even with out Architects annoying "over" at the end of each bit of conversation.

My other memory comes from one of the Belize reinforcement ops. I had operated the route re-activation flight (spare crews for the slip) after Christmas and should have been back for New Year. However, my Eng went sick in Nassau and, instead, we drew the short straw to operate the one that departed for LYE late afternoon on 31 Dec. Shortly after passing overhead Bermuda and once safely back in the Oceanic, by now past midnight UK, I called Architect to see if the spirit of the season prevailed. "Any chance of a transfer charge call to 06........ As its New Year" no problem and seconds later there she was on the line, again clear as a bell.

Mind you, even with the washing lines, night Comms were a bit of a black art rather than the scientific process implied by the En-route Supplements. The other game that could be quite fun was to join in the trucker CB conversations over in the States. A trucker's CB has a power output of diddly squat whereas ours was some 30 watts (if I remember correctly). Our transmissions just about bounced them out of their cabs.

[gopher01]

I believe that there were reports in the States at different times of CB sets getting fried because of overload from someone transmitting with far more power than the regs allowed, I wonder who that could have been!
Going back to some earlier threads smudge commented on our SAGE, not realising that he was at one time just a common or garden AGE, I was at Thorney with E...... B..... , he a SAC Lecky, me a J/T Sooty in 68 when Albert arrived and I marshalled the first one onto the Farms dispersal, ( my first aircraft to marshall after training, no pressure ) and we then next met as we joined the G,E's course at Lyneham in 77 and travelled the world together, including Rhodesia where we shared a room in the Kentucky hotel, my crew being Neil Stewart, a Co who was our first casualty of the Det by diving into the pool at the NEW Years do at the residence of the boss of the Rhodesian Air Force and doing an ear drum in and went by the initials of C F and had something to do with SF over the years, Nav was Paddy Long, Eng was Jim Chick and the loady was no less than that ultimate loady , say his name with pride, Pete Tyass.
And talking of bullet holes in Hercs we got one at Sarajevo while flying in from Zagreb on the UNHCR part of the do and can anybody remember who was the crew on the aircraft that had a round in an outboard tank on the way into Gatow many years ago, I knew the Eng and I think it was P... K...... on 30?

[ancientaviator62]

Coffman,
you have anticipated part of my Op Vigour tale with your query ref the HF comms ! It will be along in due course.

[CoffmanStarter]

Many thanks Xercules ...

You can't beat a good Long Wire properly tuned and excited by some healthy Wiggly Watts :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Sorry AA62 ... humble apologies old chap ... I'll consider myself duly 'earthed' ;)

[ancientaviator62]

Dougie,
a very nice account of an HSP drop. Time certainly was relative as Einstein said. When I first started dropping everything seemed such a rush. By the time I finished I seemed to have the capacity to see each stage of the proceedings as they unfolded. According to my log book my largest HSP drop was a 'grader' at 35000lbs. Heavy drop trials could at times seem to need a little help from 'upstairs' as is the nature of trials they were always on the edge.!
As for the ALM going aft to cut the risers IMHO he would never have got there.
Once those main chutes deployed (10 secs I think but hopefully dragartist can help here) I think the inside of the a/c would have been opened up like a sardine can. If he had got there his survival knife would have made no impact on those very thick risers. On ULLA drops we carried a fearsome 'homemade '(in the JATE Workshop) saw of a knife to just cut through one riser.
As smudge says it is a wonder we at the coal face did not have more problems especially in light of what I have learned from dragartist, who hopefully will be along soon to explain. Ignorance for the crews was certainly bliss !

[Brian W May]

Most reliable for HF comms and phone patches was Portishead, followed later on by Stockholm radio.

When our cutting-edge Artichoke couldn't hear us/speak to us, we'd call Portishead who asked roughly whereabouts in the world we were - turn their aerial array and Bob's your Dad's brother it worked . . .

It was also fun listening to Chaz Fink talking on the CB channels . . . (which of course NEVER happened).

[dragartist]

Between you all you have this heavy drop doomsday scenario about right. the system was complex with a number of safety features built in. some depended upon the correct grade of copper shear wire being fitted which either was designed to break to sequence things or designed to break to make things safe or arm the EPERU (mechanical no wiggly amps or sqibs like you had on the early boat systems. And being used on A400M I believe). Every bit of rigging was safety critical.


We had issues with envelope, issues with CoG within the envelope. bits being so close to their ultimate strength (the JATE 40" Strop). Several lifed components, some of which should have been single use and became so in my time. The TROC which AA62 previously described issues over extensions with stretched aircraft. (HSP did not use the TROC)


I am pleased the usage rate went down to a few a year in latter times. having studied the MALDROP rates we almost had a MALDROP of some form during every drop. some were minor but gave an indication of the state of things. Turn this on its head. if the system had been used more frequently I wonder if due to better training the failures would have reduced. I continue to have that debate with myself as well as re running the FMEACA over and over in my dreams.


Skydel was more appropriate to airdrop than the dash 4a used by our cousins over the pond and on our Js. The bending moments on some of the beams did not have much of a reserve factor left with some of the heavier loads. Getting the message across about overturning moments due to a high vertical CoG with stacked landrovers and howitzers under Pinz. was a difficult task. I resorted to a wooden model and elastic bands made in my garage. I don't think - I know AA62 is correct about it leaving the aircraft prior to anyone cutting any risers with the J knife on the pole.


I am surprised that none of the JATE MSP/ULLA Maldrop video has made it into the public domain. Most of it was on VHS. Boscombe would have had similar on 16mm film. From Mid 2000s 47 were equipped with handheld video recorders to record every single drop. The RAF Photog Union must have been up in arms.


In summary. Doing it so close to the ground with bog off parachutes out the back did not give much time to react if things went tits up.


I always did as the ALM asked and stayed at 245 stood up on the seats fearful of being whipped by a flailing TROC. Not much space for supernumerary observers on a double MSP on a Mk1. Less so on a double PURIBAD with troops. Its much safer to watch from the DZ through a bloody big telescope or wait to see the recording a few days later.

[smujsmith]

Gopher01,

Blimey, I never realised how aged you really were ! Suitable doffing of cap sir. As for HF, I enjoyed many free conversations with "the lady of my loft" whilst undertaking HF tests on the ground from Dulles, Cairo, Bahrain, and once managed a Beatles job (Hello Goodbye) from the pan Mount Pleasant. All aided by the latest propagation charts (we're they called that?). No doubt, all down to "skip wave"? Or bounce . The pinnacle of home calls had to be a call from overhead the pyramids, SWMBO wouldn't believe where I was. Brian May has spotted the best source for ground access to free home calls though, Portishead, Architect tended to be more formal IMHOP.

Smudge:ok:

[Alison Conway]

Smudge, we used to hang off the RAFA club bar together. I sat in the centre seat. On Christmas Day 1984 our whole crew got a "free" call back home from Ethiopia as Archpest had agreed to swing the aerials for us. We were on our way back from Alamata strip and looking forward to dinner at the British Embassy where the Ambassador plied us all with strong drink in an attempt to keep us away from his two very pleasant daughters. Little did he know of the bordello that was going on in his compound buildings. Happy Days.

[ancientaviator62]

We positioned at Nairobi to await the VIP party. I had some experience of MPs, civil servants and the like and many of them had a puffed up sense of their own importance. So it was a very pleasant surprise when Baroness Chalker and her team arrived. They were pleasant affable and understood the problems we faced with the a/c. They appreciated the effort that had been made to try to turn our rather secondhand 'Workules' into a VIP transport. The lady was very sensibly dressed as you will see and declined the offer of a Beverley seat in the cargo compartment. Instead she traveled on the flight deck for the whole trip.
One of the media lot insisted on sitting on a para seat underneath the Utility hydraulic system despite my telling him it was the worst possible place. This was the same chap who would insist on walking through the (stationary) props until one day he got too close to the exhaust of the GTC. Although he was not burned the shock seemed to instill a little common sense into him.http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/scan0028_zps73ba9a02.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/scan0028_zps73ba9a02.jpg.html)

No doubt some of you may recognise some of the team here.

Off we went to Wajir to offload our small load of relief supplies and the minister could see how her department's money was being spent and talk to aid workers.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/VIGOURD0002_zpsd4c069e9.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/VIGOURD0002_zpsd4c069e9.jpg.html)

Take off from one of the strips.
Then it was back to Nairobi for a night stop.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/BLACKANDWHITEMSPALMVIEW_zpsef460ef1.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/BLACKANDWHITEMSPALMVIEW_zpsef460ef1.jpg.html)

I have posted this pic before but it is worth looking at again in the light of dragartist's comments about vertical c of g of the load etc.
The 'war load' MSPs were even worse as you could hardly see the main load for the wall of jerry cans ammo boxes and the like.
A problem when dropping double MSP loads was that the speed of the first load out would often cause the HD rollers at the rear to jam. The following load would then cut flats in the jammed rollers as it passed over them ! More work for the overworked role equippers.

[CoffmanStarter]

Morning all ...

probably a naff question from me ... but I'll ask it anyway ;)

On reading AA62 and Drag's account of the tech challenges/risks (potential loss of aircraft) with a max load drop ... was any thought given to fitting explosive bolts between the anchor points and the fastenings designed to shear or brake as the load exited ? That way the LM with, say, a handheld pulse detonation trigger could save a potential catastrophe ? I'm thinking along the lines of the explosive bolts that held the upturned fruit bowl of a canopy on the Canberra ... or even some MDC ? Clearly sequencing would be critical ... as it was on the Canberra ... so possibly not an insurmountable problem. To be clear, I'm only suggesting 'detonation' as a last resort in an emergency. :confused:

I understand our man Drag is otherwise deployed over the next 48 Hrs ... so his comments might be along a little later :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

[ksimboy]

Coff,
you have to remember that the disconnects on the parachutes etc were all pneumatic and clockwork , to introduce anything explosive would have caused alarm amongst the powers that be . Couldn't possibly allow the loadmaster to have control of something that went bnag! many a happy time spent following through on the ads handle as a backup fpr the co forgetting to press the chute release button. Also pulling the EPERU handle and being left with a hanful of handle and frayed wire (it had operated correctly though) just broke afetr doing its job.

[smujsmith]

Alison Conway,

RAFA Club, some happy times :ok: I think my best free phone home was en route in to AKR on the way back from the Far East. Co pilot kindly got me a phone patch and the whole crew heard our "domestic" as we passed over the pyramids. If I recall correctly, and what a coincidence, the Air Eng on that trip is the gentleman standing fourth from the left on AA62s picture #1737. How spooky is that.

Best

Smudge:ok:

[smujsmith]

A question for the "two winged master race" who are suitably qualified on Albert. I well remember a conversation with a Captain I enjoyed accompanying to Hong Kong, one A****r H****y, who had no concerns at the thought of total hydraulic failure, and subsequent loss of flying controls. Differential engine control for directional operation and obviously increase/decrease of power settings for climb/descent. Anyone ever contemplated such a scenario ? My suggestion, of operating the change over lever and using the Aux system, was credibly ignored in the conversation. So, was engine control something proffered as part of the type conversion, or follow on training ? I only ask because as someone only qualified to fly a glider, the thought of loss of flying controls leads to a parachute option only.

Smudge:ok:

[ExAscoteer]

IIRC Smuj the control systems on Albert were via hydraulic booster packs. Failure of both HYD systems wouldn't cause a loss of control per sé but the controls would become bloody heavy. Hence the foot rails on the coaming for both pilots to brace against.

I tried it in the Sim once but it was nigh on bloody impossible!


WRT diff power, we used to practice this on the ground for manoeuvring in the case of a loss of nosewheel steering (with diff reverse), I'm not sure how effective diff power would be in the air (Google Sioux City DC10).

[smujsmith]

Ex Ascoteer,

Thanks for that. I rather suspect the discussion came up after a good bit of party room banter (and beers). I believe though that four turboprops might have offered more controllability than the DC10 at Sioux City. Of course the scenario is considered in that Albert had manual reversion for both Landing gear and Flaps (wind down mechanism). I'm just speculating, only ever having had a few "clutches" of the controls in flight, the veracity of my Captains certainty of being able to maintain control. I'm sure he knew better than I ever could.

Smudge:ok:

[chickenlover]

Thought this may be of interest-don't think I've posted it before - One of the crews being engaged on short finals into Sarajevo. I may have a better copy of it coming soon.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img655-Version2_zpsd7676f4d.jpg

[ancientaviator62]

We left Nairobi after ,for me at least, a quiet night stop. We presented the Minister with a detachment tee shirt and she astounded and impressed all of us by promptly wearing it.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/LINDACHALKERONCREWBUNK_zps5d780888.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/LINDACHALKERONCREWBUNK_zps5d780888.jpg.html)
My view of politicians had taken a severe knock. After an offload at Baidoa we flew to Mogadishu for a prolonged stop whilst the minister had discussions with the relief staff. Then on to Djibouti for a night stop. Why we went there I have no idea but as suspected the French were in evidence as I saw a C160 parked up. The VIP party was whisked away but it took us over three hours to fight our way through the system and by the time we got to the hotel it was late with an early start scheduled for the next day. http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/LINDACHALKERASCO_zpsbfd0af33.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/LINDACHALKERASCO_zpsbfd0af33.jpg.html)

The lady herself getting a flying lesson from the captain.

[bugged on the right]

Smudge, I think you would need a very strong harness to get to the Aux to Util lever, being forward of the para door on the outside if I remember. ( Last flight 1989) Manual override of the flying controls would have been very stressful but some use of trim tabs may help. Once had a left main gear hang up and had to use the crank handle. It wouldn't go either so I found a very large Warrant Officer passenger and pressganged him to put some welly on to it. He strained for a couple of minutes and with a huge bang the thing cleared and free fell. Much relief, turned out to have fouled the emergency brake hose which the good WO broke.

[smujsmith]

Bugged on the right,

Yep, I have to say if you had got to the point where you had lost all four hydraulic puns (causing loss of the Utility and Booster systems), you would be lucky to still be airborne. I've been aboard aircraft returning from Norway in the winter where the gear has been frozen, and refused to come down. Usually it was "fixed" by opening the small floor level access panels and allowing the cabin air to warm them up.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge
coming home from Canada in the winter would often result in frozen u/c.
Usually only one of the MLG legs would refuse to move and the procedure you describe would be resorted to. Lots of ways to get a reluctant u/c down but some would have been very time consuming.
I seem to recall that when operating in very cold snowy climes we had to check on the initial taxy that the wheels actually rotated and that they were not merely being dragged along the ice by the power of the engines.
Does anyone know the outcome of the SI into the wheels up landing of the 'K' at Brize ? Only curious as if it was not tech then I have my own theory how it could happen.

[Top Bunk Tester]

Smudge, forgive if the memories a bit hazy but I believe it was you that had an Engineer's Pipe, if so does it see much use these days, think a video of it in action is in order :D