Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules

[bingofuel]

Thankyou,

Nice big fuel tank it has, Probably needed it!

[Courtney Mil]

Nice big fuel tank it has

Jedi master I am.

[CoffmanStarter]

Dougie ... Your 3494 ... Hilarious :D

Mind you I understand it's always wise to capture the Flock Ringleader before the Op starts :E

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[ancientaviator62]

When I was on 33 at Middleton St George I recall an old Derwent engine being used to 'de-ice' the runway. But my recollection is of a much smaller rig than the one shown in the picture. It was a waste of time of course as Mother Nature could refreeze the runway faster then the rig could unfreeze it.

[MPN11]

Ahh, the MRD - "The Destroyer of Worlds" *

Also quite good at turning snow into sheets of immovable ice.


* OK, airfield surfaces, light fittings and anything caught by flying hunks of ice.

[1066]

Lindholme, winter 69/70. All 6 co-pilots were on a shift rota to operate the radios in the MRDs. A 3 man operation, a tanker driver, a MRD operator in a little cab between the jet engines and a radio operator to talk to ATC, in the tanker cab. We trundled up and down the runway most of the weekend.
Come Monday the blacktop was clear, the weather was CAVOK but we did not fly because no one else in 1Gp had wasted their weekend and so we had no divs!
We never bothered again.
It's true they were really good at changing snow into sheet ice and the MRD then shifted the sheets of ice like a giant paint scraper, only, as above, with considerable force.
Twin Derwents ex Meteors IIRC.
Slight thread drift but 2 of the Hastings at Lindholme had come straight from Colerne when the Herc replaced them, so a slight connection.
1066

[1066]

Back to the thread.
Op banner inbound to Wunstorf from Belfast. Went through some v heavy rain ice about 30 mins out. Dropped off the troops but as the R & R stops had a guaranteed time in Germany it was not possible to bring forward the departure to get away before the freezing rain fell. And it did! In a couple on minutes it was half a inch thick on the windscreens and the parking area. A total no go. We have to night stop.
Ops normal, pick up a crate, taxi to local gasthof where rumour had it that the owner had been a U boat captain in a previous life.
Kapitan spots our crate, goes berserk. You are not staying here. Tried to placate him by offering him to take control of the beer until our departure the next day but NO there was no room at the inn for us.
Hanover it would have to be but by now the Germans had closed the Autobahns after much ice induced crashing and taxis had prudently decided to stop running.
Off to the local station, where the only way to buy tickets was in books of 10. So there were some tickets left over which made handing in the unused tickets as part of the imprest a challenge.
Made it to Hanover, found a hotel via the Bahnhof accommodation bureau, drank the beer and had a good night. Can't remember if we told Group our new address. Took a couple of taxis back to Wunsdorf the next morning. We thought getting a train that stopped at Wunsdorf might be too much of a challenge for our limited language skills. Happy troops after an extra night out or NI.
1066

[ancientaviator62]

1066,
wonderful story about your German train journey. Went to Rosenmontag
Festival (beer) during one Wildenrath nightstop. No taxi driver would take us back.
So we walked in the freezing conditions. Only the alcoholic antifreeze in our blood could have kept us alive.

[Dougie M]

Some years ago when the Sarajevo airlift was on, a number of crews were delayed at Wildenrath waiting for a weather clearance in the December murk in Bosnia. The Christmas fair was on and all the usual celebrations were on in the town. All of this seasonal goodwill and snowy surroundings was silently observed by thirty or more Ascoteers sipping their coffee or apfelsaft in roadside hostelries. The more the band oompahed the more glum the boys looked. After what seemed an age the Detco was espied approaching the festivities and we all watched him as he made his way into the square amongst us all. He took a deep breath and in his unmistakeable Rhodesian accent bellowed. "Black flag! 24 hour delay on everything. Bar's open!"
There followed some very serious catching up in the bier tent.
I do recall waking up with a Christmas tree in my room, with lights!

[CoffmanStarter]

Gentlemen ...

Just a thought on where we might go next with these wonderful RAF Albert stories ;)

We've had tales of poor Albert feeling unwell in far flung places and how parts have been flown out and then fitted by our gallant band of GE's ... But how about when RAF Albert is seriously unwell/bent in exotic locations (other than NATO or other Mil/Civ Bases/Aiports). There must have be some fun-n-games securing Albert, repatriating the crew to Blighty and ultimately getting Engineers on site to do the necessary :ok:

Who's first ...

[smujsmith]

Coff,

Good question, and I'm sure many more experienced than myself will be along with tales of derring do. All I can offer, which might possibly approach your query would be as follows;

Myself and a fellow Ground Engineer had been allocated to ASCOT 4502 departing LYN on 8 October 1994. The aircraft was the splendid XV210, which I had coincidentally completed a Bruggen/Aldergrove banner run in, two days prior to the "big trip". The only other thing worthy of note was that our Navigator was a gentleman of genuine professionalism, and needs no further "gollying" to. Off we set, and the route, as I recall gave us night stops at a Mediterranean place with kebabs, somewhere along the way we had to run through a jungle, with real insects and animals, to win a beer, and eventually our (for me at least) first landfall in the land of Ned Kelly, Darwin. The purpose of the route was to recover the remnants of the Nimrods, Fincastle trophy detachment, and returns it to Kinloss. The plan was,on reaching Darwin, to fly to Adelaide, load up and recover via Darwin to points north.

As we had travelled South, we had experienced a continuous leak of hydraulic fluid from the No2 propellor. It remained a fairly constant loss rate, and with betwixt flight replenishment offered no hazard to our continued progression. Things were about to change. The crew, particularly our Flight Engineer, a young lady who was exceptionally competent, were aware of the leak on No2 prop, and the limitations in leg duration it imposed on us. For my fellow GE and myself, it added an hour or so to the After flight servicing each night, both cleaning down the cowlings and rear engine nacelles, and re establishing the full level of the prop. The only other "must" we had to consider was that the Captain had told us, in no uncertain terms, that he had to be back at Lyneham, on time, as he had unmissable commitments.

The leg from Darwin to Adelaide was long, but normal, from the point of view of those of us who "commanded" the progress of the route :rolleyes: from our hammocks down the back. On our descent to Adelaide, the Eng noted a swing on No2 prop that exceeded the permitted 1%. She duly informed us on landing, and we ensured that we would "look at it", after we had bedded Albert down for the night. On examination, No2 Engine had a really good covering of OM15, and on checking contents had lost more than double the loss rate we had noted during previous legs. We also noted that the reported prop swing had exceeded acceptable norms, on a 6 hour leg as I recall (Doug ?). Anyway, between us, TT and myself worked out that the fault causing the leak was our old friend the rear GITZ seal. Replacement of the seal involved the removal of the propellor, replacement of the seal and the refitment of the prop. As usual, we GEs did not have a spare seal, prop sling or crane, and needed to consider our return to Lyneham. Certainly, legs exceeding 6 hours were planned, possibly leading to the shutdown of No2, and our subsequent request for recovery in places exotic. Or we had an option. Now, a couple of Chief Techs in this situation, and unable to contact the crew in the hotel (probably due to their already doing an ASCOT shuffle) must do the best they can, so, we phoned Eng Ops at RAAF Richmond and spoke to the duty Eng O. Explained our situation, and he immediately offered to facilitate a team and all the required equipment to repair No2 prop, our arrival the next day was OK'd and we, on behalf of our Captain accepted the offer. The next phone call was to FATCOCK, informing them of our situation, the resolution that we, the GEs had found, and asked for their "guidance". The Richmond plot is approved they said, a 1 hour transit next morning, and a 24 delay on the route would put us back on track. Our arrival in the hotel bar, and informing our Captain of the itinerary for tomorrow was not received with good grace, as I recall, and his phone call to FATCOCK to cancel such plans was turned down, as he could not refute the prop leak. The next morning, we flew to Richmond, a team of Aussie sumpies met us and helped us remove the prop, replace the seal, refit the prop and carry out full post prop change EGRs. 14 hours, and my only glimpse of Sydney, where the crew spent their 24 off, was between 2300 and 0500 local. I enjoyed it though. And there's your, how do we deal with bent Albert in exotic locations Coff. Find the nearest, Albert unit (whatever the nationality) and ask for help.

To finish this lengthy missive (for which my apologies gentlemen, I understand the short attention span of trained aircrew) we departed Richmond, fully serviceable, having been given a new itinerary which involved a night stop Darwin, then a progression North. Both of us GEs welcomed the N/S Darwin, as a break, away from an airfield, but we're gobsmacked when on awaking the next day, we were informed that our Air Eng had been grounded with a medical problem (another 24 hour minimum delay). As I recall, an enjoyable day off was taken, with a round of golf and a few bevvies by several of us. We eventually headed back home, with the final victim of the route being myself, who ended up grounded by the medics at Akronelli, with a chest virus, that stopped me getting home for a further 4 days. Thankfully TT was still fit and the aircraft eventually arrived back at Lyneham, complete with one GE. You will all be glad to know that I am off for a couple of weeks to Scotland for a change to Wiltshire, I will as always only eat the Haggis with the shorter left legs, but retain full control of my distillery selections. Best to all, and keep posting gentlemen.

Smudge :ok:

PS. Just read a book on Kindle, Not a natural Pilot, by Laurie Tallack. Some interesting insights to Albert, particularly reading stuff that perhaps should have conformed to the unwritten down route rules ? Anyone else have an opinion ? Perhaps I am the last one who should criticise !

[fergineer]

Ah dear old Laurie, the loadies nightmare for food remember him well.

[CoffmanStarter]

Great kick-off Smudge :ok:

Have a great holiday ...

[Dougie M]

One of the hazards of skimming the surface of the planet is that there are sometimes some natural events that occupy the same airspace. In my case it was a swarm of locusts. We were on a det in the Cameroons which was under a military dictatorship and not helpful. The sudden encounter with the swarm was heralded by the effect of flying through a custard tart fight. All forward visibility disappeared in yellow goo. The engine temps went up and a very nasty smell of well done locusts pervaded the flight deck. As in the song The only way was up. We landed at Douala with the DV windows open and both pilots craning over to see. A serious inspection followed with crispy insects being retrieved from all Albert's forward facing orifices. Piles of them dropped from the flaps and undercarriage bay. It was at this point that one of the AGEs said "Perhaps this isn't the best time to say that we will be out of LOX soon"
Cosmic.
The Cameroons used gaseous oxygen and we had no dip clearance for anywhere in Africa because we arrived over the sea.
" Only option is to go to Asi" I said
"Rude word" said the captain. However,the case was put to our customers and the boss (whom we sprang from jail for not having his "laissez passer special" on him) said we could take a day off while he stopped his mountain boys going for a swim in the lake which emitted poisonous gas bubbles from the volcanic magma it sat on.
Off we went then on a 5hr each way LOX run to Asi. The GEs had loaded up with fake Rolex watches to flog to the ground crew there. The charging was very slick and we re-rationed for the rest of the det. The GE's came back rich and we were back in Africa only 17 hours after we left. Hell of a day off.


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[Dougie M]

Some of the newly acquired rations being made into honkers stew with a splash of the local wine. We stirred it with the earthing spike and it came out bright pink. The stew was for the troops by the way. We wouldn't eat that sh*t.






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[Brian W May]

Nice beer belly there Robbie . . . . all paid for. Good old 6663s

[ancientaviator62]

Dougie,
we used to stir the honkers with the nav ruler !

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ...

Would that be for the added piquancy of chinagraph wax residue ?

[gopher01]

A device invented by the Devil incarnate! First encountered at Thorney when in the winter of 67 I was authorised as a MRD operator. This being the first engine I was allowed near after leaving Halton, certainly the first ground running I experienced, it was my first experience of the downward cascade principle. Very simple in operation, it started with the Chief was handed the responsibility for the implementation of the MRD, he delegated to the sergeant who told the corporal who selected a J/T (yours truly) to actually be the operator, it couldn't go any further down as you had to be a fitter to run it.
The Derwent , as possibly some of our readers who possibly experienced the Meteor in their early existence may remember, had a very manual starting procedure if the grey cell remembers. First open the LP cock, press start button, at 15% rpm open HP cock and observe JPT rise to ensure no overtemp, at about 33% slowly advance throttle again observing JPT rise whilst attempting to pass the resonance RPM band as quickly as possible whilst not overtemping to achieve 72% idle Rpm. After that it was easy, all you had to do was communicate with the Bowser driver over what was usually a very bad I/c and co-ordinate your operations.
As has been mentioned the MRD was very good at melting snow, which then refroze as ice, which the MRD was yet again very good at removing, generally in big sheets as the jet blast got under it putting anyone or any thing in the vicinity in danger of being dealt some severe damage! If in an attempt to avoid these happenings by changing the attitude of the jet pipes,( which was done if you were lucky by nitrogen pressure acting on a jack or if unlucky by a hand hydraulic pump in the cabin of the MRD ), you could also lift some fairly big chunks of tarmac as well which needless to say did not go down well with the powers that be and in fact it was after a couple of bouts of tarmac relaying that the MRD was banned at Thorney, as was shown later it was in fact safer to land on the snow than try to clear it.
The other party trick with the MRD was to catch the bowser driver by surprise with a swift burst of power, especially if on an icy surface, and send the whole contraption off in reverse with the MRD pushing the bowser, legend has it that some of the virtuosos could steer it in reverse by use of differential throttle, not something I tried being merely a beginner in the dark art of MRD operation.

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
red chinagraph would provide colour and flavour ! How many 'E' numbers in chinagraph ?

[Dougie M]

In our little group we had black kneepads so white chinagraphs.
As an aside, whilst on the above det the DZSO, who got himself into several scrapes was briefing boat troop by 2 Gemini craft. He indicated to the boys which would be despatched first. "Get a piece of chalk from the Nav to mark the boats" he said.
"Wot do you think I've got up here? a blackboard? I cried.
He came over and said "Don't ridicule me in front of the troops"
When he got back, he saw that the troops had found some clay and had written on the geminis: BOAT 1 on the first and NOT BOAT 1 on the second!
It would take a heart of stone.

[smujsmith]

Good stuff Doug, at least the DZSO wasn't the oxymoron of all time the IO:rolleyes: Just crossed the border in to Sturgeonland, might be cut off from civilisation for a few days. Do you still do re supplies North of Hadrians wall ??????

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Have a good one Smudge :ok:

[Dougie M]

I'm afraid that unless Smuj finds himself in unlikely spots like Lochindorb, Craiganour or Shaggie Burn he won't get any resupply of English provisions.
Advice. Don't try the deep fried mars bar!

[CoffmanStarter]

Shaggie Burn

I hope that's not contagious :ooh:

[smujsmith]

Doug,

Thanks for that update, I fell back on the stashes at Aberlour and Glen Grant today, the rations seemed to have kept quite well for 16 and 12 year old "scran". Thank goodness Mrs Smudge qualified as a B Class driver all those years ago. I must get that little red book thing changed for a modern one though. A local day tomorrow, with the Glen Moray reserve stash being the target. Have faith lads, Sturgeon will not deprive an ex GE of nourishment.

Smudge :ok:

[Dougie M]

One Scottac, TALCE couldn't find an airman from SHQ to help out on the DZ so I was introduced to a 6ft tall WRAF netball player. She's very fit said Ksimboy. We went to the Moulin Inn at Pitlochry and changed for dinner. All heads turned as we went into the bar. I said we were to be on first name terms, no rank. The hotel had its own brewery and when it was her round I asked for a Broadsword (and wished I had one). She got to the bar then turned and said "What was it you wanted, Sir" A hush descended and an old Jock on the next table said "Your call, Laddie"




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[ksimboy]

I had to do something to avoid the wrath of Dougie, after the previous job he helped me out with involved living in tents and NBC suits carrying guns while doing an exercise involving the AARCC. Neither of the 2 reservists who helped on that one were best pleased, in fact L*s P**is may have been described as a tad on the grumpy side!!

[ancientaviator62]

I knew Les P for many years (he was also my neighbour in Sherston) and he was always a tad grumpy. But then he would no doubt say the same about me !

[Dougie M]

L**? Grumpy? Oh Yes.
"Go to Germany" said TALCE. "Have a hire car, you'll be in the Paderborn area" he said." You can have a night stop somewhere nice each way" he said. Got to be good.
First bit of grumpiness was at Folkestone when the customs wanted to stop L** from taking his survival knife on the Catamaran. "Do you think I'm going to stab the hull? Etc."
When we got to Sennelager we found out we were in tents, surrounded by barbed wire out on the tank range. And our stash of wine was in the hire car outside the wire.


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[Dougie M]

So we quickly found out that Europe couldn't field an army together as long as they spoke different languages. The French and Italians insisted on a bar. The Brits went loopy about alc and weapons but there we were. "How much for a glass of wine my man?" "two euros sir." And how much for a bottle?" "Still two euros sir" "we'll have two bottles then!"
Tableau of L** and I in full combat rig with webbing and helmets sitting at a folding table in a tent in the forest and in the snow with L**' telescopic picnic cups and a bottle of wine each. Several later we had to negotiate the tents guy ropes in the dark back to ours. Was it 24 or 42?
Next day when the German colonel demanded all 60 R.A.F. Hercs to carry his Panzer Grenadiers to the strip (Exercise, exercise, exercise ) he was told by L**. "Look here Hans, you can have just six. Tell him Doug"
"Sorry about that colonel. The strip is only big enough for one a/c to off load so we plan on one here loading, two on route, one on the ground and two on the way back"
"and all your invasion army will be there in 4hours and 15 minutes" Said L**
We were known as the old winos after that.
Our General declared the whole SNAFU an unqualified success at the end. I still bear the mental scars.




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[CoffmanStarter]

Another marvelous story Doug ... Mind you that 'Top Table' looks a tad serious ... Especially the chap far left :eek:

[ksimboy]

Just to clear up the acronyms (particularly for the more mature readers), TALCE was the next generation JAOC. The latter was predominantly stood up when we had the airborne exercises with 5AB or 16AAB. Initially the RAF side was manned by personnel unable to fly on the exercise, whereas the Army had a permanent staff (including a totally hatstand major!). After 2 such exercises in close proximity, I made the unwise suggestion that we did the same as the army for continuity purposes, leaving the same staff in JAOC for a year. Yet another crap idea I had!!! On one exercise the 38 gp Tac At W/C turned up and announced he was unhappy with what we were telling the Army what JAOC stood for (just another ops cockup ) so he was changing the name to TALCE . His spots were in danger of exploding when after approx 40 seconds we informed the 7RHA boss that stood for "totally apathetic loadmasters controlling everything" . Explanation done, now back to the stories please!

[Dougie M]

A final word on the Allied Rapid Response Corps is that it isn't. All the "Allies" have different weapons, transport, armour and provisions. The rifles and artillery are of a different calibre and all services have differing SOPs so interoperability is hampered.
After stating this in the "Wine Bar" and only as the opinion of volunteer reserve officers (We had convinced the Europeans that L**'s Masters badge was General in the Air Force) We were given time off for good behaviour and were asked to leave before the final wash up.
We haven't been asked back.




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[smujsmith]

Sounds like a good result to me Doug, I well remember being sent to an IALCE ? At Corlu in Turkey. The plan was that we lived in tents for the two week push to take and hold an airhead, and extract EU nationals. Day one, someone had the presence of mind to bring a health safety monitor, who sampled the sand that covered every surface of the mess facility, including the food. He stated he had never seen such a high contamination of salmonella and other "big words" ( be kind, I was a GE). The Det Com was a S/Ldr Sean C, of UKMAMS, who immediately moved us to a local 5 star hotel, with a casino and free food on offer (Vegas style). A most splendid trip, though "the boss" managed to roll a Land Rover during our stay. Now, Ksimboy, acronyms ? I'm still not sure what RAF means !!!!!

Smudge:ok:

[isaneng]

So many names, so many memories.
Smuj, you fell out of your hammock on a far east trip, in light turb, and only a liberal application of 'medication', (your own DF medication, we weren't that daft..) calmed you down.
Dougie M, we flew many a trip together, both main and other.

Let's face it, as a group we had some right plonkers. But we also had some real stars, gents I was fortunate to learn from, both professionally and otherwise. I still Eng, one of a rapidly diminishing number, but the memories (mostly) make me smile.

To old friends, both present and absent, best wishes,

R

[smujsmith]

isaneng, fell out of my hammock young fellah ? Crikey, a court martial offence for a GE, I have to say, I can't remember doing that, so the medicine must have been effective. You are spot on correct that those who toured the planet on the wings of the C130K were a mixed, but usually agreeable bunch, and whatever age we all are, our memories of those times are usually fond ones. Best to you too, and keep clocking the air miles !!!!

Smudge:ok:

[WE992]

In all my travels I never actually fell out apart from when the rope from the pole to the roof above the ramp snapped. Thankfully it was at the end furthest away from my head.

[smujsmith]

WE992,

My sympathies on your rope breaking, as you say, at the foot end of the hammock is probably the best result. I always employed a double lashing tape arrangement, with a slack line (no load) allowing a 2 inch or so drop should the primary support fail As for falling out of my hammock on a Far East trip, I only did two in 6 years as a GE, and we rigged stretchers on both for our transit. I think that at one point during my time as a GE we had three Smudge Smith GEs, so maybe isaneng is confusing me with one of the others. My two Far East extraviganza's were in the company firstly of Doug M, and secondly R4H, no hammock rigged during voyage. Either way, unless you were a pilot, with a nice view of where you were going, Albert airways was best enjoyed from the comfort of a hammock, and a green maggot, above the ramp.

Now gentlemen, having wandered around the town we are staying in, in Bonnie Scotland, Mrs Smudge asked me tonight why I have a habit of sitting in a perfectly satisfactory ale house, and "get the urge" to up and went somewhere else, on foot! I used the words ASCOT shuffle on her, and then attempted to explain the principle of "a cab saved is another beer", whilst allowing the Nav to direct a ground transit could often deprive us of several :D

Back to a good Broadband signal soon, though I am enjoying "being down route" !!!

Smudge :ok:

[isaneng]

Smudge, sure it was you, but standing by to be corrected. Sep of '90. We went to Colombo. R**** E******* as skipper. Forget why we went, but surprising at the time as we were mostly busy elsewhere.....

[Vasco Sodcat]

A cracking thread, chaps. Time for a few dits…

February 1985. A supposedly standard Belize schedule left Lyneham on the 19th, the crew a mixed bag from 47 and LXX, captain C***s K*******d. Flag Kef for Gander, night-stop. Flag Dulles for Belize on the 20th. On arrival we were met by the Air Commodore, very unusual (was “Air Commander” his post? Can’t remember).

Air Cdre: “Go straight to the accommodation, don’t drink, don’t leave, can’t tell you any more, wait”.
Next morning:
Air Cdre: “Don’t drink, don’t leave, wait”.

This became a very repetitive procedure. After a couple of days Skipper managed to persuade His Airship to put us on 12 hr standby (joyous we were, for a fairly obvious reason :D). He also got permission for the Eng and Loady to check the ‘frame once every 24 hrs, not unreasonably. Up at the camp there was a source of cheap booze (can’t remember what it was called - EFI?). Eng and Loady came back from their checks with a re-supply every day. Now the Loady was the famous J***y H***s; his room became a very well-stocked bar. To this day I remember we called it “The 109 Club” (his room number in the Fort George). The room became popular with some Canadian tourists we got friendly with.

On the sixth night we were told “Thanks chaps, pick up your schedule tomorrow morning”. We were never told why we were held there. Perhaps it had something to do with rumblings in the Turks and Caicos Islands prior to the suspension of the Constitution in 1986, or uncertainty surrounding public order in Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba getting independence from The Netherlands on the 21st? Any well-informed comments or better guesses from anyone?

VS

[Alcazares48]

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[Alcazares48]

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[Alcazares48]

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If my memory serves me correctly.
Regulations came out where you could only have a maximum of four meals in one day, whether that is on the ground or airborne.

So if you wanted breakfast in your hotel in Newfoundland and dinner at your hotel in Belize, then you could only have two meals airborne. Bearing in mind that these meals were in the form of a cash allowance and it was yours to do as you wished, then some got greedy and wanted the lunch allowance in dollars when we landed at Washington DC.

That meant having to go a whole day with just one main meal allowance in the air, difficult even with a culinarily creative loadmaster; when crew members complained of being hungry I told them to eat their dollars as they couldn’t have it both ways! :=

I seem to remember that the rule eventually got changed, and you had to be on the ground over 3 hours to qualify.

[Vasco Sodcat]

Kilwhang’s tale at #3126 and #3132 reminded me of a saga from 1998. A captain on 47 was about to leave the Service and join one of the long-haul fleets. He managed to get a decent trip out of Task Plans (Lye to Darwin and back, supporting an E-3 exercise), and managed to persuade the Sqn to give it to him as a swan-song. In Flt Planning on Day 1 the crew met, and an RAAF Flt Lt Snowdrop-equivalent was introduced. He was on Long Look at Innsworth and had got wind of the trip, and as his family were in Darwin he sought and got a seat and a bonus mid-tour trip home.

By the time we got to Darwin we’d got to know this chap quite well, and the Captain had let slip that he had always wanted to see crocodiles – just like the ones in Kakadu Natl Park, just “down the road” from Darwin. You can see where this is going ;)

The Aussie had explained the booking and comms procedures for flying through Kakadu, so on the morning of departure we filed VFR-to-IFR from Darwin to Singapore. The Captain ensured that we had gassed-up for some time ‘on top’ Kakadu and then pick up the task. Once airborne the skipper had a quick chat off-headset with our guest, then came back on and asked how long to Kakadu.

“Forty minutes that way”.

“By road? What’s our ETA?”.

“Forty minutes that way”.

“Oh $#1t”.

He really hadn’t appreciated how far “just down the road” the park was. We had enough gas to get there and have just under an hour on-top, then climbed out and picked up the IFR Flt Plan. How many crocodiles did he see? Not a single one! :} To this day no-one at Ascot Ops has asked why it took 2 hrs longer than usual to get to Singapore :O

[smujsmith]

Isaneng,

That rings a few bells, Columbo, was that the trip where it was discovered that the 25p a litre, locally made gin was the perfect accompaniment to the local roadkill chicken ? I remember being woken in the foyer, as the taxi arrived, but not falling out of my hammock. I will respect your better memory and agree not to disagree on the hammock incident. I'm awaiting being drummed out of the worshipful company of roof danglers, now I have admitted this. I rather suspect that my fellow GE J**n He***s was also on that trip, he often led me astray.

Best

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Welcome VS and Al48 :ok:

VS ... We'll have you posting pics in no time ... See PM's ;)

Coff.

[Brian 48nav]

All this G/E talk has reminded me that on 48 at Changi we had 2 US civilians attached to the squadron - one was the Lockheed rep' and the other the Allison rep', and they sometimes came en-route with us, particularly to Kai Tak where I guess they liaised with HAECO.

I wonder if there were any reps' attached to Thorney, Fairford and Lyneham in the early days?

[smujsmith]

Brian 48Nav,

Not sure about those you mentioned, but, the "Lockheed Rep" at Colerne, when I arrived in 1971 was a great big Texan I believe. I can't remember his name (though Jim comes to mind) but he wore Cowboy boots and a large white Stetson. At Christmas he, on behalf of Lockheed, took both of the Base 3 (Major servicing) Teams to a great place in Bristol and feted us to all we could eat and drink. I'm sure he did the same for the other teams. Such events stopped pretty quickly once the Lockheed reps were withdrawn and Marshalls of Cambridge provided the civilian link. Hope that helps.

Smudge:ok:

[Null Orifice]

The big Texan fellow that smudge referred to was (during my time on Blue Team '67 -'70) Fred Heymeyer from Lockheed. The Allison rep was also a Fred - Halloran.

This latter gent was a really nice, quietly-mannered character who did not, in any way, appreciate being on the flight deck when we carried out our post-inspection ground runs, usually making his excuses and suddenly remembering that he had a pressing job to do in his office!:rolleyes:
He was also horrified that we didn't use a safety chain suspended from the crane hook and wrapped around the underside of the power plant when carrying out an engine change. None of us had ever heard of this - and it was not, to my knowledge, in any technical manual - apparently, Fred had previously experienced (somewhere on a USAF base, states-side) the sight of an engine with a flat portion on the bottom after the forward slinging point threads had ripped out of the reduction gearbox during this procedure!:eek:

[smujsmith]

Thanks Null,

I haven't burned out all of my "little grey cells" yet then:rolleyes:

Best

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Alcazares,
if I had seen this 'G/E emulation' pic before your ACR write up may have been very different ! Hope you are coping well with the heat in your part of the world.

[Dougie M]

We were requested to do some drops to the West Indies Guard Ship (WIGS) while she was at sea catching drug smugglers. You can stay in Belize till you are called forward they said. The mission wasn't at all tiresome and we duly launched to do the resupply of 4 x 1Ton containers. The procedure required the ship to sail into wind while we ran in from the downwind side at 300ft and the 1 ton loads would be dropped individually at 50 yards off the starboard side. After the second pass the ships captain said "We are getting miles away from our station. Can you drop off our starboard side if we are going astern? Then we can pick up all the loads in a smaller space"
"Never tried it. Give it a go"
It's a bit unnerving seeing one of HM Ships steaming backwards towards you as you run in. It all seemed to go OK though.




http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/e7bd3745-3544-44d3-955c-e2c71260fff5_zps2v2hhsu1.jpg

[Dougie M]

Because we were there for a week, Rudy got us set up in the Holiday Hotel on Ambergris Cay. The view from my room is below. After several days of Supercharged pina coladas and fresh lobster cooked on the beach over coconut shell fires it was very difficult to return to RAF Goatacre.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/8da52a94-89ff-487a-995f-31b28c86aaaf_zpsutc9ar3j.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Great pic of the Navy in reverse Doug :ok:

Mind you these days I suspect the 'Elf-n-Safety' bod would insist on some kind of audio warning to be sounded ... "Beep Beep ... Caution Government Vehicle Reversing ... Beep Beep" ;)

[Top Bunk Tester]

You sure that wasn't the Italian Navy on normal manoeuvres ?:O

[Dougie M]

It was definitely one of ours
HMS Avenger when it had stopped talking Italian.




http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/e8dc2a10-6d99-469b-b96f-33d13dd34a8b_zpsw6r9nqjk.jpg

[Dougie M]

Our GEs v the Rest.
Back out in California, we were returning to El Centro and whilst taxying back in a drainage grid tore up two mainwheel tyres on the left side. Now we had one spare but the GE insisted that the other one was not serviceable. We were required to fly the following day so we did a quick survey of likely C130 bases and found that the Air National Guard at Van Nuys Burbank (Hollywood) had a pretty good stores set up. "Got any mainwheels?" we asked
"Sure"
"Can we borrow one?"
"Okayyyyy"
So we loaded up the hire car (for transit requirements) and boogied off to Van Nuys. The Maintenance team there were very wary of the "loan" of a wheel. The width was narrower than ours and tyre pressures were different, also they needed a "wheel change team" who weren't available. Our GE just said "Stand Back" and on his own loosened all the bolts, jacked up the beast, snuck inside the gear bay and shoved the wheel off. "The new one goes on there" he said. The Spams were all mightily impressed and in awe of the expertise. In recompense we also borrowed some engine instruments and other parts for the beast. A very good night stop in downtown Burbank ensued. The only snag was when we refuelled the hire car there which raised eyebrows when it was returned to the agency on leaving El Centro.
"You gassed this thing up in Burbank and there's only 400 miles on the odometer for two weeks!"






http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/1d368104-a005-4939-afca-f9421436a761_zpsydredzob.jpg

[smujsmith]

Ahh Doug,

El Centro ! Now my one visit to the place included a night stop March AFB as I recall, for "technical" reasons. Despite there being no indications of imminent failure of either primary or secondary hammock retention devices. I also managed to note that neither beer, food nor stripper quality had improved on the offerings that the Imperial valley had to offer. No doubt one of my seniors and betters in the "front row" had decided that my life would be bettered by this visit. I only found out that we had gone there for "technical" reasons when I was asked why I had failed to submit an Eng Rep, for the diversion from planned itinerary. I denied any knowledge of geography and stated that one USAF base looks like any other, including USN bases. Though I did note the Blue Angels were conspicuous by their absence.

Meanwhile, on return I remember the seminal moment of the detachment when a Pathfinder Cpl had serious problems with his HALO when his main chute wrapped itself around him on deployment. I was stood next to one of the Falcs, who said "Smudge, look away now". I didn't, I couldn't and I watched the lad struggle to emerge from his tangle, cut away and deploy his reserve. The reserve went pop, he had one swing and hit the ground. A sprained ankle, he was back on Albert 2 days later. As a result of seeing that, I was even more convinced that Hammocks, not parachutes, were the way forward. And I'm still here, to justify that belief.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Hopefully we'll be hearing from Vasco now he's got the pic posting Gen :ok:

Thanks again Doug ... I shudder to think where you're going to take us next after Cockroach Honkers, Reversing Ships along with a rather creative way to clock a Hire Car :D

[NutLoose]

A cracking shot

http://fly.historicwings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/USCG-C-130-Stars.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Gentlemen ...

I'm shocked and somewhat traumatised having just seen the standard of crew flying rations available on the A400M :eek:

Following the delectations of Doug's 'Haute Cuisine a la Albert avec sautéed Roach' ... How will the crews of today cope with such hardship ...

Members who have a delicate constitution are warned that the following images may cause some digestive distress ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/CMQfopaU8AA17G7_zpsedaj5av9.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/CLdPsYXWUAABDNC_zpsi9hh7wfj.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/CLdPsj2WgAAWqFE_zpsmbpixal0.jpg

Plastic cutlery and a serviette instead of Blue Kimwipe ... What next ?

Best ...

Coff.

Sorry for the slight Thread Drift :E

[R4H]

Just seen a copy of August Pilot magazine. 4dy of our brethren invested as the new Master. Photo even shows him smiling!!!

[smujsmith]

Crikey R4, he never managed a smile on any of the dets I did with him, and I did a few. Fine airframe driver though IMHO! Congrats to him.

The link to the on line article ; http://www.gapan.org/press-pages/press-releases/chris-ford-installed-as-master-air-pilot-9-march-2015/

Coff, not sure what the muck is in your photos, but it looks like the Nav Kit has improved since Doug operated with his magnetised needle and stopwatch :=. One thing for certain, none of those instruments would buy you a beer on the night stop.

Smudge :ok:

[Dougie M]

Some of the old Nav equipment was vague but at least you could watch it leading you astray. An Ascot crew of 6 was much more of a party when down the route.
4Dy of course was always much admired for his intricate, all inclusive training sorties which in the summer months could include a sunset and a following sunrise. Epic






http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/11701073_10153135264994671_7136847247164925837_n_zpsot2x3odf .jpg

[smujsmith]

Good comment Doug, and nice to see you still have your primary navigational instrument !!

Whilst electric Betty never bought me a beer down route, you certainly did, There's no substitute for a proper Nav !! How does this sound for a 4D deployment in GW1. Deployment to Abu Dhabi, with various activities related to shakeyboats and even shakier Hereford people (least said the better). We depart Lyneham and flag Akronelli for Abu Dhabi, it was a long trip in the hammock, and both of us GEs looked forward to seeing the hotel that was to be our home for the following four weeks. 4D was Captain, and seemed to enjoy returning from ops, as we performed the A/F servicing, to inform us that the plan for the standard 26K fuel load, was to be changed to 62.9K (until it leaks ISTR) and by the way, do a B/F we depart in an hour. Off we went to Diego Garcia,(DG) flat floor, our pax and cargo offloaded , life was never more sublime in the hammock, until the Loady and myself swapped jobs for 6 hours. DG was a 14 hour chance to sleep, by now I'm like a thing on a spring, my body and brain can't agree whether I should be sleeping or awake, the matchsticks in the eyelids ensured I was available for the transit DG to Riyadh after our downtime. On arrival at Riyadh, we carried only an RN sub Captain as Pax who was escorted to a "Briefing, we were told that Hotac accommodation was not available, bed down on the aircraft and make do, departure for DG in 12 hours. Now we are competing for the right to sleep in our own hammocks, though our Nav, one R4 C***man as I recall remained strapped in front of his Doppler throughout, thank goodness we had some DFs on board, there's at least one poster who must remember this trip (DC) ! On it goes, we take the submariner back to his boat, enjoy a few beers in the wardroom, and 14 hours ground time before departure. My fellow GE and myself just didn't know what time or planet we were on, so wandered the island getting only a couple of hours kip, back on Albert, concerned that we might miss call and credibility. The last leg was a straightforward DG to Abu Dhabi. On landing, and looking forward to arriving finally at our HOTAC in the near future, we were informed, by none other than 4D that 26K was the fuel load, take off at OFFS next morning to do some HALO drops. I know what I felt like, what 4D and the rest of the operating crew felt like, I hate to think. Professionals all, there were no complaints.

I'm damn sure that Doug as a Nav can come up with the hours required to fly that schedule, I, to this day have no idea of the hours, and hours, and hours we spent, at the start of that det in the aircraft. 4D, as always just "kept on truckin" as some say, a fairly standard deployment continued for the rest of the month, with a mishap that led to my eventual medical discharge just before our return in time for the new year. A memorable Christmas Day Dinner, after collecting "A senior officer as guest of honour " from Riyadh was well enjoyed. Hours? As can be seen, 4D knew how to accumulate them, and never refused an opportunity. As an aside, I well remember our Captain giving us a guided, low level tour of the Radfan etc, whilst giving us his history of flying Defenders around the same area, in a previous existence. As always, apologies for the long post, I do try :ugh:

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Doug that compass is priceless :D:D:D:D

[Dougie M]

Smudge
There was a document called Group Air Staff Orders which covered the length of crew duty days and the minimum crew rest times for sustained operations. They could only be exceeded with express permission from Group (or FATCOCK as you prefer to call them) There are exigencies for wartime considerations of course. The secret is when to push on and when not to. You don't get brownie points for causing a disaster through crew fatigue.
Like our lady eng in Darwin. The captain didn't want her to go sick. I told her to do just that. You need three for a mutiny.
I try not to make decisions anymore.

[smujsmith]

:ok:Spot on as always Doug,

The start of the det I just posted was my second, with the same crew in two months. I certainly was grateful to be part of a team with some seriously good operators in the "front carriage". Certainly, every part of that trip was a wartime exigency, GASOs went out of the DV window ! I believe the sub captain was briefed to do a survey of Kuwait beaches with a view to an attack via that route. Our Eng in Darwin was well advised IMHO, as I would hope you would value my opinion (back in the day) on aspects of serviceability, that might affect onward progression. Oddly, in 6 years as a GE, I believe our slight delay in Sydney was my one and only time of causing a diversion and delay. Though, in fact, it wasn't me or TT but a badly leaking rear GITZ. I will relate a further experience during the GW1 conflict, where on Det with an SF crew, I was denied the opportunity to address a problem on a degrading engine performance, which would take little more than the removal of four fasteners and a "dusting" of the component. So three weeks in to the four week det and our leader collars me one day and says, "I hope you will fix No3 before we return to LYN, but only on the night before return". Why says I, if you've carried it for four weeks, you can surely take it home. The aircraft of course returned to full performance, engine wise, prior to our departure for home. It could have performed to spec throughout the det. Given some reciprocal faith in professional competence.

That compass is "the dogs gonads though", I once bought a Nav, whose crew was unfortunate enough to have me as their allocated GE, a 400 degree, Asian compass, honestly gov, I thought 400 as opposed to 360 would be more accurate. He did not appreciate it. Despite the fact that uncannily, there was no northing on the dial, but Mecca's relative bearing was always present.

Smudge:ok:

[Jackw106]

We had a brief glimpse of a C130J Friday evening at the tattoo 75th commemoration of the B of B

https://youtu.be/HR7q2XBsWdE

[Dougie M]

That was indeed a fleeting glimpse of the departing "J" into the sunset.
It's a pity that the "curtain raiser" couldn't have been the Falcons (The Premier Free Fall Parachute team) It could have been a hit.
Some years back, after dropping the Falcons into the Jack Murphy Stadium in San Diego the customary "DZ FlyBy" was orientated along the football field axis of the arena which was a horseshoe shape. We entered the open end of the horseshoe to overfly the impact point and were immediately impressed with the immense height of the far end tiers of seating benches. There ensued a very positive change of attitude and application of power. "Call the torques Eng" request was laconically replied to with " 24, 25, 26...." (only kidding)
The crowd went wild. The organisers - less so.
We were invited back the next year with the proviso that the " Yee Ha rip **** departure" was cut from the display.

[CoffmanStarter]

It could have been very messy if it had been the other stadium in San Diego ... Petco Park :eek:

[Dougie M]

You really do need somewhere flattish to do a proper job.




http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/e1425982-0c95-4394-907e-09a3e6596a9f_zpssjkphe9k.jpg

[ICM]

Doug: Very neat, indeed. The Fly By biz started in the Argosy era with the Falcons - can anyone claim an earlier date than 5 June 1968 at Cranwell? A somewhat spontaneous and improvised procedure that afternoon, as I recall.

[Dougie M]

I dropped the Falcs at Weston on the Green on 22 may 68 with W*n D***d but no DZ inspection because of the crash at El Afrag on 8 May 68.









ICM check PM

[Dougie M]

Whatever Fly by or DZ "inspection" was carried out. Nothing was lower than the Falcons "Dirt Dive"
We did a spoof one off the ramp on the ground with the crew all tugging each others' flying suits and nodding and smiling at each other. It didn't amuse the jumpers.




http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/c4cf6e36-1bbf-426f-92c4-07f5adee1f20_zps7ovgvrtt.jpg

[ksimboy]

Doug,
I used to enjoy waiting till the precious sun gods were deep in thought as they did their "dirt dive" then grab one of their suits where they didn't expect it. Was priceless seeing the total confusion on the faces .

[Alcazares48]

I did just the one trip with the "mighty" Falcons. They were not impressed when I told them to take their flares out of the back of the landrover and stow them on the floor. I also told them they could not sit in the landrovers for take off!!
I think that someone had been indulging their bad habits.
Nevertheless I never got another Falcons trip.

[smujsmith]

Ahh chaps,

Just like your average "Falc" I too once believed that having completed my GEs course, that I alone was all that the Albert fleet ever needed. Obviously, I was not available for every route flown by Lyneham, and therefore could not be held responsible for a few "cock ups" made here or there (particularly the ones in my immediate proximity)! Bottom line boys, I liked the Falcons, one of whom offered to lend me his comb, despite my being balder than a plucked ducks bottom, I liked them because, like the Red Arrows, the public identified them as the epitome of the RAF, and, when I stood behind the Captain for the fly by, if I managed to beat the Loadie, I was chuffed to think I had helped engender the public belief. Just like all of the RAF trades (I offer M**k L***y as the GE example) "Prima donnas" often came to notice. The Falcons had them, as I'm sure we all know.

Dougie, I remember my one and only El Centro Det, when myself and the other GE attempted to take the Michael out of the Blue Angels formation see off team. With Halton precision marching, the wielding of the marshalling baton and the respectfull salute to our comrades who were about to fly the staggeringly beautiful Albert to Holtville strip, we found ourselves surrounded by blue suited Blue Angels ground crew as we put the ground equipment to bed in preparation for our drive to Holtville strip, collecting the days rations on the way. A sense of humour would have come as a bonus, but unfortunately the U.S. Navy/ Marines had ensured these chaps were bereft, and so, we were made aware of our status as guests, visitors, and informed how we should respect our hosts. Well, we took that to heart :eek: and ignored it as usual. Losing one of their Huffers at Holtville added insult to injury I suppose. Crikey, I think I've typed too much already. Keep posting all, the thread is looking more like a source of reference for Albert Boys every day.

Ksimboy, I once got in a lot of bother trying to join in the "dirt dance" with Herefords finest "Air troop", no violence was offered, but I never, ever considered it afterwards.

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Evening Gents ...

I haven't seen our regular good friend AA62's 'Green' on for a while ... Hope he's OK ?

Coff.

[smujsmith]

Hopefully he's just taking advantage of the ALMs 6 months annual leave Coff. Come on AA62, lets be hearing from you, no doubt you've thrown the Falcs off the back in your time !!!

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Let's hope so Smudge :ok:

Just thought I'd have a look for any interesting pics involving Albert and the Falcons. This image caught my eye ... Looks somewhere hot, possibly late 60's/early 70' (which could be wildly wrong) and looks to be XV214. Anyone able to tie it down ... or even admit to 'crewing in' on the sortie ?

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/ChairmanRed/Model%20Builds%20-%20non%20GB/Hercules%20C130K%20C3/elcentroapril84jpgREDFREDS1984-1.jpg

Coff.

[Brian 48nav]

At the time I left, late '73, the Hercs were still in the original, and to my mind best colour scheme, desert or whatever it was called.

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks Brian ... So later than 73 (Crud and Custard) possibly 👍

[Brian W May]

We had gloss crud and custard with a white top originally (for me from 1971) and black underneath.

We then went to semi matt crud and custard without the white top.

Much later we then went to the European grey, green and light grey (which is my personal favourite).

[smujsmith]

Oh dear Coff,

Crud and Custard indeed. As a member of a base 3 team from 1971-73 I can confirm that the beast was painted in a two tone colour scheme on the upper surfaces. Light Stone and Dark Earth were the colours supplied by Titanine (my memory can't recall the DTD number I'm afraid, DTD 515 (possibly DTD 585 lingers in my head though). My Morris Oxford looked great after our spray bay had a go at it. The under surfaces were finished in a Titanine gloss black and overall the aircraft looked stunning ;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/06f85e560da25c04a19814e475ca887b_zpsab958f6c.jpg
What a beauty !

The white reflective flight deck top was a sop to the aircrew, who believed it kept them cooler. As always, from the mid 1970s the trend was toward tone down finishes, which, whilst being more practical, did take away our obvious recognition as Royal Air Force Hercules aircraft. As a side note, I was always led to believe that the White was removed from the roundel on Albert when some civil servant got the idea that it gave the IRA snipers a target to aim for ?

Smudge :ok:

[Top Bunk Tester]

Coff

Def not the Falcons, these are the Red Freds. Recognise several faces, and would place the time as the early Eighties for sure. Prob El Centro. Still in touch with a couple of them.

[smujsmith]

Agree with TBT,

Not sure what "Red Fred's" are, maybe Pathfinders rather than Falcs, the airframe has the later colour scheme we have been discussing, and all that's missing are the Navy Blue Angels to confirm El Centro. Maybe early 80s, the trend for moustaches seems to have been at its height in those days. I refer back to a previous post of mine re pathfinders, HALO and a near miss.

Smudge:ok:

[Top Bunk Tester]

Oh dear Smudge ........ Red Devils :ok:

[smujsmith]

Sorry TBT, did the Red Devils do El Centro then ? MFF ? No reason not to I assume, the Falcs used it as a winter warm up, we used to drop them in the climb to do the HALO, before we went on O2,. Certainly looks like El Centro, but didn't they all. Thanks for enlarging my limited knowledge of army units (red Fred's indeed) I have to admit that in 6 years as a GE I never, ever met a Red Devil, whilst I certainly met a good few "Falcons". As an aside, I always thought they jumped out of a Skyvan, or some such workhorse, seems a lot of them to get in one of those ? Is that both shifts of Red Devils ?


Smudge:ok:

[Top Bunk Tester]

They used to have their own BN2T Islander for domestic use but would often tag on to Falcons exercises for work up training. The team used to be a lot bigger than it is now. I arranged for them to do Lyneham Families day in 1991 as the Coons decided they'd double booked at the last minute, they were suppose to bring one of their spare cleared rigs with them for me to jump but they failed. When I saw who the PJI dispatcher was I realised I could have jumped my own rig but it was in my locker at WOTG. Was not a happy bear when I had to land with the Herc. Maybe aircrew shouldn't jump Hercs :E:E:E

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks chaps ... Glad that's sorted :ok:

Red Devils early 80's at El Centro :)

Any more stories/pics involving RAF Albert with the Falcs and/or the Devils ?

There's something in the back of my mind, from my 'short trousers' days, that John Noakes of Blue Peter fame jumped with the Devils from a Herc late 60's/early 70's ... or have I drifted off track ?

Cheers ...

Coff.

[ancientaviator62]

Hello all I am still alive and well it is that if I have nothing to say then I do not say it ! Yes I was once the ALM on a squadron display team for a season. I have mentioned a couple of trips in the earlier posts. The problem with the Falcons was that sometimes they thought they owned the a/c. As I pointed out to one team leader they only 'control' the a/c in the last few minutes before the drop. As Alcazares has said they had developed some very bad habits including setting off their smoke canisters well before the drop. Not only was it toxic but it stained the inside of the a/c and I was told was not aluminiums best friend.

[Top Bunk Tester]

Coff

Close, John Noakes' early jumps in the late sixties were with the Red Devils were he progressed onto free fall delays but not out of a Herc. In the seventies, JN jumped with No 1 PTS and the Falcons. For many years JN held the record for the highest civilian skydive. It was out of a Herc and some of those PJIs are still around, abeit retired now.

Pages 28-29
http://www.bpa-archive.org.uk/mag_archive/magazines/017-1968-2.pdf

Pages 4-5
http://www.bpa-archive.org.uk/mag_archive/magazines/041-1974-2.pdf

[CoffmanStarter]

Glad you're OK AA62 :ok:

Many thanks TBT ... That's my reading sorted today once I've completed Mrs Coff's Friday Task List (yes ... 500 PSI !) ;)

Must be some more stories/pics out there ... I still can't believe our 'Happy Band' is approaching 3,600 Contributions with 0.5 Million Hits over nearly Sixteen Months on the Thread :eek:

Best ...

Coff.

[ancientaviator62]

Just to pick up on the inflight meals. I was in the Inflight Catering Section one day when the SNCO I/C showed me the latest batch of frozen meals after a contract change. They were a good deal smaller than the previous ones ! He defrosted one and put it on a standard RAF dinnerplate. It might have made an adequate starter ! I phoned up the Command Caterer who knew nothing about the change. All organised by MOD and given to the lowest tender irrespective of quantity and quality. As always typical of decisions made by people far removed from the coal face who never have to live with the realities of those decisions.

[CoffmanStarter]

Fascinating read TBT ... Many thanks :ok:

Shame the film 'The Long Fall' doesn't appear on YouTube.

Best ...

Coff.

[smujsmith]

AA62,

Welcome back, and thanks for the post on the "improved due to privatisation" in flight catering. Now, I, along with a very good mate (ex GE) have a love of Lyneham in flights ACC of the late 80/90s. No better meal was ever more welcome at "top of drop" after a 10 hour "hammock session" and looking forward to a -20 degree A/F followed by rectification of goodness knows what. Young Tucker T managed to get the recipe for the ACC from in flight, prior to his departure as a GE, and therefore continues to supply the said meal, on our days of meet, greet and reminisce. Unfortunately, he got the recipe for a full batch, we are still working through his 2013 attempt ! There's GEs for you. Nice to hear you are still loitering AA62, somehow the thread seemed a bit quiet without you.

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Gents ... I think our good friend Vasco Sodcat needs a bit of encouragement ;)

He's had the 'Coff Gen Sheet' on pic posting ... Since then radio silence :(

Coff.

PS. I'm sure Doug has a few more interesting pics in his Nav Bag !

[dragartist]

The Fred with the head in front of the 1 looks like J*** R** I think he is now with BCP. He went on to do stunt work including Lara Croft and ))&.
I am sure TBT will confirm. Loved his curries and had a curry house in Llannsomethingorother.




I missed you too AA62.


Drag

[Dougie M]

When launching over the pond to sunny California for essential training for small groups of highly dangerous people accompanied by the Falcs intent on getting as many lifts per day as possible we did try to provide hot meals for the jumpers. There were always some hangers on from other agencies including one army para colonel who was a royal pain in the a***e and interfered with every programme. After feeding the troops he came up to the flight deck to enquire why his meal was taking so long. The helpful Loadie said, rather than tell him to f off and eat his AH box, that he had a spare L13 I believe ( A lamb vindaloo) to hush him up. It will dull his taste buds so he won't know that I've rimmed his tea cup.
I was always courteous to Loadies after that. It still didn't stop T**s but that's another story.






http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/dac729ef-ec13-4034-8b0e-e3a020c570dc_zps3bq3n1rr.jpg

[smujsmith]

Oh dear Doug,

Exposure to the "Loadies revenge "(rimming)" ! Fair cop sir, I still believe that serving a co pilot with a stewed teabag in his "Beefburger" without any criticism was equally meritorious. As one of the "hangers on" on an El Centro Det. Having worked my @rse off sourcing the midday meal, I hope there was never a complaint. Meanwhile, the 1 month Det to Pau was another story. With French "cuisine" available, how far could we take the Hereford heroes in culinary fortitude. Once more, with little to do during the flying day, we, the GEs went forth to source lunch, for our heroes from Hereford, and of course our front end. Not sure if "Stretch" ever got over his encounter with baby octopus heads, but it all seemed to go down a treat with the hooligans.

Smudge :ok:

[Dougie M]

While we were at the French Para school in Pau, the GE's did a fantastic job of making a buffet salad lunch for the crew and jumpers one day. They really went to town with the selection and presented everything neatly in little plastic containers. We even asked the few French free fallers to join us but they politely refused. "But we've got tons of scoff" we said.
"Yes said the French team leader but the food is all served in the little "poubelles" that French ladies put their used sanitary towels in"
Lost my appetite after that.

[smujsmith]

Ha ha, Doug, it sounds very like the lunchtime soirée I and my fellow GE Joe Ion provided some time ago. Pau was a great Det, although the on base accommodation was as usual "basic". My first chance in the RH seat to have a go at landing Albert, I think I got it down, but might have had some "gentle" help from Stretch in the LH seat. I'm still here typing on pprune, so I must have got away with it. A little diversion if I may. Joe and I were both smokers at the time, and whilst waiting for the return of Albert one evening, were enjoying a fag and a chinwag in our hired vehicle. Imagine our surprise when a chap pokes his head in the left hand open window, and says "ere lads, can I borrow your wheels ?", we immediately christened this bloke James Bond and handed over the vehicle to him. He proceeded to ask us where the best boozers were, we told him that they were all within walking distance. He handed the vehicle back to us, and we met him later in our local haunt, turns out he was a nice lad, and even bought him a beer from our meagre allowances. I'm sure, not a new experience for Albert operatives.


Smudge :ok:

[Dougie M]

This place was one of the better places to go in the summer but PTS always went when the weather in the Pyrenees went claggy. The French used the same DZ all day and it was a mare to get on in between the Noratlases doing static line and the Transall dropping French free fall. Whilst loitering we found that the Tacan cross cuts from Biarritz and Mont de Marzan were pretty accurate. (This was before SCNS). Coupled with an overhead from the NDB and stopwatch. We practised the run in in good weather whilst waiting for a gap - mostly when the French went to lunch- and it seemed to work out. When we tried it on an overcast day, the boys would emerge from the cloud within a recoverable circle of error to make the impact point. Our hosts thought that we had a blind drop capability after that. It always paid to keep the French hierarchy on side or it was tripe for dinner in the Casino or officers' mess. It was only us that seemed to be served it spookily! The Brit team leader was called Monsieur Smoo locally and did not care for diplomacy. One overcast morning at met brief he announced to the assembled Anglo French paras. "The weather is OK for Rosbifs, No good for Frogs" There was a Gallic froideur.
We ate out that evening.

[smujsmith]

HALO work has to become a favourite experience for me. In the run up to GW1, I was fortunate (or otherwise) to experience two months of MFF type build up with the usual team. As the potential to divert from our standard base was the norm, one of the two GEs was required to accompany the aircraft on all lifts. Now, my mate Kev was more than happy with the ground level conditions at both Minhad and Abu Dhabi, so generally we were happy for me to be sent aloft. Once above 10K with the back doors open, it was a real treat, cool air, and great views. As we went higher, even the O2 muzzle didn't diminish the relief from the heat on the ground. Simply a relief, never afforded by air conditioned hotel rooms etc. on a hot day in the UK like today, I would jump at the chance of a HALO today:O

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
if you want cool, 35000 ft HAHO and HALO in the UK in Winter, fits the bill !

[smujsmith]

Ha ha, AA62,

I reckon if it's cool you want a 16 hour Prop change at Gander, with a high of -21 must get close. I well remember doing it, and the brilliant support the movements staff gave us, hit soup, a 15 minute on/off cycle, and all the clearances for high power ground runs post prop change. We had a problem, it was so cold that we couldn't stop the new seals freezing as we proceeded. RAF "Enginuity" came to the fore. We built a polythene tent around the engine nacelle/prop and used two 4therm heaters to keep a reasonable -9 degrees throughout the work. The subsequent ground run on their lazy runway was fun !!! Thankfully the Captain occupied the LH seat as we hit 18K and started noting temps, torques etc, he was the only one who noted that we moved about 50 yards, pushing the chocks (they never worked well on ice). Now, the funny part of the story is that we were for once lucky. We were a 5A call out crew, and were ferrying a prop change team, and it's prop, to Bermuda. As we had all the expertise on board, and Gander had a spare prop, everything fell in to place. Once again, ASCOT airways got a result, a few hours delay but I believe the U/S crew returned to LYE only 24 hours or so late.

Smudge :ok:

[R4H]

Guested for HATS Boscombe on a 35000ft HAHO trial at CLake. Lots of discussions with geeks ref pressure altitude density altitude IAS TAS pre-breathing etc. Best bit was that a spare crew had to be on standby after landing for a few hours and the decompression chamber had to be available at NAS San Diego. If any jumper or crew went down with bends type symptoms the spare crew had to fly everyone to SD and everyone had to go into the chamber with the casualty and be sorted. Imagine being in the chamber, knowing there was nothing wrong with you, and that the spare crew was now down in the Gaslamp area!!!!

[dragartist]

Go On R4H, give fellow Pruners a laff and tell them the name of the project.


You could not make it up.


Sad to say this project was not a great example of joined up thinking. It consumed the department budget through an enormous overspend leaving little left in the pot for anything else.


The full capability demonstrated during the trials in 1999 was not in service in 2012.


I guess A400M will solve some of the problems.

[R4H]

Sorry Dragartist. Can't remember name and in Suffolk at the moment. Could probably look it up when back next week.

[ancientaviator62]

R4H,
did you use the standard a/c oxy system for your 35000 ft trial ? As I recall we had a special oxy fit at FS245 with tubes through to the flight deck.
We also had to pre oxygenate for an hour before take off. But this trial was done in the UK.

[R4H]

We used a system rigged on the bunk with a fast jet regulator chest mounted. Had to go to Farnborough to learn how to use it in their decompression chamber. Only problem was that our flow indicator was in the lines to the seats out of sight of the pilots and they had to be monitored by flight eng. Pre-breathing was one of the issues as we couldn't do it anywhere on the ground at CLake and we effectively pre-breathed at low cabin alt during the climb to height. If I remember correctly we did progressively higher drops but only got to just above 33000ft before the opening shocks on the jumpers was deemed to be too high. With a very low time of useful consciousness at height the transfer of jumpers between O2 systems had to be carefully run and monitored. Only one incident when HATS Alm became disconnected just as he was going to open up and passed out. Luckily he was talking on i/c at the time and we realised what had happened and carried out a rapid descent to breathable air and he was ok.

[ancientaviator62]

R4H,
thanks for the info. Back in 1975 we also had problems with the shock loading on the parachutes at 35000 feet. Pity I never recorded the parachute types. Re your ALM oxy problem. That is exactly the reason on these trials we carried two loadmasters. One for the drills and the other to see the big picture as any small snafu at those heights can swiftly escalate into a full on emergency. My dim memory tells me we were only allowed one such trip every four or five days.

[Dougie M]

The jumpers down the back had an oxygen console devised back in the 60s using the old regulator but with gaseous oxygen bottles. The LOX system for the crew was not cleared for use above certain altitude so when we ventured higher on JATE we had that aforementioned "octopus" shaped collector box on the flight deck in front of the bunk fed by a gaseous oxygen tank abaft 245.
The "dolls eyes" were monitored by the flight Eng to check that we were all breathing.
For HALO it was OK because we were all connected up but for HAHO the Nav had to go back and brief the team leader on any change of heading before the final climb to altitude. After lot of to ing and fro ing the Loadie finally called that all troops were on oxygen. Well the upper winds had changed so I said, "Just going to brief the team leader" . I trotted down the back with the map and gave the new details, waved to the Loadie who was also masked up, and trotted back a bit slower. You're getting old pal, I thought. As I connected back up the Captain said "you were off before I could say stop. We were going through 18000ft unpressurised. The Loadie said that you looked OK but it gave the troops a start to see you weren't on oxygen" We changed the drills after that.






http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/ac0d4a03-a4d7-41f5-835b-c4814a139188_zpsghanppw2.jpg

[ancientaviator62]

Doug,
my memory being what it is I cannot recall the Nav coming aft to brief the team leader. When I was on JATE we had a special harness made up for the ALMs in order to carry two MK4 portable oxy bottles. A mite cumbersome but it did the job. As regards running out of puff when the a/c climbed I once had the same sensation on a route trip. Did the scan check and got back to the flight deck feeling less than A1. Looked at the cabin alt and it was passing 15000 ft. Smacked the eng on the hand and pointed. Instant switch flicking followed and normal service was resumed.
On the tanker I always stayed on oxygen until the safety valve had been persuaded to close post tanking.

[CoffmanStarter]

This is fascinating ... So outside of HALO, HAHO and Tanking ... when would the entire crew be Ox'd up like this ?

[ksimboy]

Possibly when the vindictive ALM rolled an insecticide spray onto the flight deck while running down the freight bay laughing Coff! :mad:

[CoffmanStarter]

Naughty boy !!!

[ksimboy]

Only on the odd occasion Coff.

[ICM]

Doug: Might this be the oxygen console to which you referred? Taken over El Adem in December 1967, during the Falcons winter training detachment, at 12000 feet, or possibly 16000 according to my logbook. And using a fairly 'informal' method of pre-oxygenation!

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc463/Old141Nav/file_1.jpg

[ancientaviator62]

ICM,
I am sure that the oxy console Doug refers to is the same that we used and no doubt very similar to the one in your Argosy picture. During my time we only had to pre oxygenate when operating above 25000 ft.

[dragartist]

I don't remember anything like that as an O2 console. Looks like the engine from a Deltic locomotive.


We had what was known as the Interim system from the early 90s when I was at JATE through to 2011 because we could not get the modern system to work consistently. I am not sure what it was supposed to have been interim too.


Interim was a Mk10 bottle rigged with 7 outlets. 6 for the troopers and one for the despatcher. the orifices were metered to give a constant flow of 5 litres per minute. it was found the number of outlets was too many. I think it was cleared to feed only 4.


The low pressure gas fed into a long hose by way of an accumulator which was connected to the mask. We called this the snake and it was packed in a pouch. the trooper disconnected from the rig and opened the tap to his personal bottle. This was good for 25K. Only 18K at night. Funny story from a PJI about this who thought it was because the O2 concentration in air is lower at night! This was a guy who was training our finest!


We did have a small number of PHAOS American sets probably from 96/7. these were specifically for tandem and Tethered bundle. I think they may be out now. They were still in use in 2010 but restricted to 18K due to regulator issues. It had been 25K prior to a few incidents. I think the spams may have bragged about it being good for 35K but not in UK service.


The system R4H describes was known as AMOS which initially had two high pressure outlets feeding a Harrier regulator. (later a Jaguar 417) for aircrew including the loadmaster before we developed a special 100% O2 only regulator.


The parachutists system R4H tested in CL was connected to a Carleton console similar to PHAOS when on the aircraft for pre-breathing. He disconnected which automatically allowed his regulator and mask to be fed from a rather nice lightweight composite bottle at P-2


This never got into service. Meggitt developed the AMOS Mk2. I even see there is now a Mk3 but I have lost touch.


35K was tested but never got into service. We became quite risk averse. Many hours spent in the chambers at IAM and setting regulators upon B2 stands. The failure rate was very high in the early days. It was like a hair spring against a gossamer thin rubber diaphragm. fingers like pigs tits was quite a handicap. There was a time when we could only get 10 out of 150 regulators serviceable. Hence the retention of interim system. Still the contractor got his £squillion. Contracting for availability had not been invented.


I am sure things are all hunky dory these days.

[Reheat On]

Enough of this jumping out of perfectly serviceable aeroplanes

Following the Snoopy thread a while back


I see Marshalls have it emblazoned in their A400 page. I was doing my PPL at Marshalls [remember Doug Page? ] in '73 [Nineteen 73 ...] and Snoops was in full glory at that time. Ahhh the heady Bisto days of DERA!!

From the days of 'Just Bolt It On' aerodynamics


http://marshalladg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/proving-a-powerplant-4.jpg


http://marshalladg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/proving-a-powerplant-1.jpg

[Dougie M]

Ah DERA. Although operated by our side, DERA was a law unto itself.
When asked to deliver the High Altitude Air Delivery System (HAADS) 1 ton containers to the beleaguered troops in the Gorazde Pocket of Bosnia we raised the point that unlike the MAC boys doing their resupply on forecast winds from MacDill we would need accurate actual readings.
Bimbling over Serbian held territory and slowly spiralling up would only entertain them for a while before they smelled a rat and fired something pointy at us. "No problem" quoth the Vice Field Minstrel, "we will despatch the Met Herc to drop a descending sonde in the target area and decode all the info you need".
"Whoa, whoa, whoa." Said DERA. "We don't do warfighting" - or words to that effect Elf and safety, duty of care..etc.
So all that practice at black Ball Firs went into the bin.
Tin hat, coat.

[Vasco Sodcat]

Let's see if I've learnt anything from Coff...

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt212/Va5c0_S0dcat/Hercs/Lafonia_zpssslztcos.jpg

[Vasco Sodcat]

This one's from that exercise that is unfortunately sited between Vegas, San Diego and LA...

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt212/Va5c0_S0dcat/Hercs/Red_Flag_zpsnppxwqtu.jpg

[smujsmith]

Cracking Shots Vasco, keep them coming sir.

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Well done Vasco ... That's a Green Card for you old chap :D

[Vasco Sodcat]

Credit for #3627 goes to the DZSO as we were starring!

[Vasco Sodcat]

Credit for this stunning shot goes to a colleague on LXX - you know who you are! Taken during the first deployment of Typhoon "darn sarf", Albert doing Eng Spt & SAR standby, TriMotors doing AAR

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt212/Va5c0_S0dcat/Hercs/Asi_TO_Sm_zpszkqndgpu.jpg

[Vasco Sodcat]

A rather sad shot, taken at Cambridge, 26 Jun 08:

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt212/Va5c0_S0dcat/Hercs/MCA_26_Jun_08_Sm_zpsfom94v1v.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Cracking pics Vasco ... In particular the prop vortices image :ok:

[dragartist]

Vasco/Dougie,
Well done for ignoring Reheat for the time being and posting more on airdrop. You don't see many pictures of SC8/GQ6m and what looks like a SEAC pack.


HAADs happened under an SD (Kind of UOR before UORs had been invented) whilst I was on a sabbatical back to industry. When I came back I had to formalise the clearance paperwork and support pubs. Nightmare. It was one of the first parachute Mods I signed up at Irvins. I never could understand to this day why we could not just adopt the off the shelf chute from the US without having tinkered with it. Apart from a few justifying their existence.


I only saw a stick dropped once at Everligh in preparation for Herrick. We only had minimal stocks left and was hardly worth the effort. But we were in the process of putting PADS on the J to get winds.


A few of us had log ins to the USAFWX web site and could down load wind field files anywhere in the world. But we were not allowed to use it due to restrictions placed by the UK Computer Security Group, not the US.


Reheat, I enjoyed seeing the pics of Snoopy really. Like you I first saw the aircraft in 72/3 under conversion at Cambridge. A few years on I did a wireless mod. I was at the Mods meeting where so much discussion was focussed on the chicken. Nothing else mattered. My mod got signed up with hardly any discussion.

[Descend to What Height?!?]

Dougie M re Snoopy dropping sondes over the Balkans.
We were well into the planning stage when we were stood down. We were ready to go, but as you said.....politics

[Vasco Sodcat]

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt212/Va5c0_S0dcat/Hercs/OJKF_Sm_zpsax4rzvsw.jpg

[Yamagata ken]

'Scuse ineterruption, but what is the Hercules like to fly? Is it responsive, dull, rewarding etc. etc? Sorry if this a bit of a noob question, I am not a pilot.

[CoffmanStarter]

I hope you will allow me a few degrees of Starboard Drift for a moment ;)

A couple of pages back Brian, Smudge, TBT and I were talking about RAF Albert 'dropping' the Falcons and Red Devils. Well ... after an expedition to the loft, I found the following pics.

There was mention of the Red Devils BN-2 Islander ... Well here it is, G-AXDH, on the ground at the former Lympne Airfield Kent (just north of Dymchurch on the South Coast) taken in 1981 ... sadly the Airfield is no more :(

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/MrsCoffApr81_zpsbniduab7.jpg

Image Credit : Mrs Coff.

Just for good measure ... Here is a pic of Mrs Coff (April 1981), then aged 18, after her 3,000' Static Line Descent from G-AXDH with the Red Devils for Charity. No broken bones !!! We married three years later in the hope of preventing any further reckless behaviour :)

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/MrsCoffApr8102_zps8zzkhics.jpg

Image Credit : Mrs Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

The Big 500,000 Reached !

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to our Herc Thread ... clearly a lot of people have enjoyed reading the tales of RAF Albert and his gallant Air & Ground Crews ...

Best ...

Coff.

[ksimboy]

Raising a glass to the next 499999 then :D

[OvertHawk]

Whilst I've never flown Albert (nor served in the military), I've been hooked since i was around 7 years old. I have a vivid memory of being given a tour of the RAFAT support Herc', as a youngster, during a families day somewhere during the early 80's (Can't remember the airfield but I could pick the crew from a line-up). I grew up around bases with Phantoms, Tornadoes, Sea-kings, Nimrods... you name it, but Albert was all I ever wanted to fly.

Sadly, military flying and I were never meant to be - I'm fortunate, now, to earn my living in the pointy end of civvy flying. But my first and last love will always be Albert.

This is a superb thread and I give my thanks to those who contribute - who knows, perhaps there is someone out there who remembers being at (Leeming???) around 1983 and pretending to be impressed when a 9 year old explained to them what turbo-props and reverse thrust were all about! ;-)

Respect to those the have been there and done it! :ok:

OH

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
I think we can now say your 'baby has well and truly grown up.
OvertHawk, I always enjoyed showing Air Cadets etc around the 'K'. I was especially keen to impress upon the curious tax payers how few creature comforts HMG provided ! The Elsan was always greeted with incredulity, 'sat' as it was half way up the wall.

[zetec2]

Ah, but even less fun having to use it during less than smooth conditions !. PH.

[Dougie M]

Coff. Many congrats on reaching the half mill hits.


Whilst in Addis Ababa on Op bushel it was my turn for the trots. Venturing afield to drop 15 tons of grain to far flung DZs in Tigre and Wollo provinces demanded superhuman sphincter control until the load was despatched because of the suspended position of the elsan.
Once the freight bay was cleared, I found that I also needed a clearance. The facility was rigged and after giving a heading for Bole field I raced off down the back. Boozy Taylor the skipper decided to return to base via the Nile valley. I had just become ensconced when he pushed over the 5000ft drop to the valley floor. This woke the AD boys who were sleeping on the rollers at this time and they were amazed to see the Nav emerge in a sphinx-like seated posture from above the curtained enclosure and traverse the ramp area colliding with the emergency water containers. The scene wasn't gross because of the immediacy of the evacuation but as the application of positive G took effect there was a heap of painful embarrassment on the ramp as I tried to hold on, cover up, and stand up at the same time. A desultory round of applause from the troops required a bow.

[smujsmith]

Heh heh Doug,

I'm sure not the first elsan launched orificer seen on Albert :rolleyes: It sounds like your bounce off the ramp was better padded than my own. As others have said, well done Coff, a thread worthy of praise, though, if you know Albert, and those who supported it, you will know that there are still stories, discussions and waffle, that should take you easily to a million. Thanks by the way for giving me a chance to bump in to some fond memories, and former comrades who provide a lot of the input to this thread. Who knows, perhaps a forum beer call at Dougs local might evolve one day.

Overthawk,

I remember well being instructed on the workings of XV210 when I attended Waddington Open day some years back as the GE on the static display aircraft, from a young man who looked like he had just started his first year in secondary school. He knew it all, the only mystery I could offer him was the "worm drive" from the inboard engines to the wheels, to power the aircraft on the ground :eek: I note that thankfully, your Albert experience wasn't at Waddington, I hope you had the respect you deserved sir.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/25a6556bde0381106c21d9f5891918a6_zpsolw8dju5.jpg
The beast in question

Keep it going chaps, I'm still looking for my Nav bag, and it's "interesting" contents. One day !!!! I'm now troubled with finding my Smith Tartan Tie, as I feel it would be fitting to wear to the forthcoming dining out of a good mate from my GE days. As with the Nav bag, SWMBO declares no knowledge of existence let alone location.

Smudge :ok:

[DCThumb]

I've just spent an enjoyable few hours 'digitising' all of the video I captured during 4 months in the Falklands. Once I have sanitised it, I will try and publish some bits here for all to enjoy (I hope!).

I miss the sound of 4 T56's - the J just ain't the same!

[smujsmith]

DC,

"I miss the sound of 4 x T56's" - Could not agree more mate, living in "Pig atop the Hill" we see the shape most days, but it sounds like an annoying hair dryer in max mode. Having seen the A400M go overhead a few times, I think that would be a more fitting steed for the likes of Dougie M, Chickenlover and ksimboy to ply their trade in. Publish and be damned sir, I will certainly follow your vids with avid interest, and probably contribute my usual unworthy text. Post away sir. Here's a little T56 fix;

http://youtu.be/yatx1cRwe60
Don't laugh at the bloke on the long lead, only the RAF could put pockets on the ankles of a flying suit, so you can't reach them:ugh:

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Looking forward to that DCT :ok:

[WIDN62]

Smudge,

The pockets in the flying suit were not designed for you lying in your hammock or standing out in the rain! They were designed for people to reach when they are strapped in a seat!

[smujsmith]

WIDN62,

Thanks for that, I must admit that the "ankle pockets" often afforded stowage space to the odd screwdriver/spanner or Cornish pastie ! That was more easily accessed in those locations when bent double, upside down in a dry bay, or fuel tank. Hammock? never took to one in a "grow bag" sir, shorts and a T shirt were the standard garb for my "air miles" whilst doing my job as a GE. If job it can be accepted as ! I'm afraid I am one of the "old brigade" who believed that the flying overalls, like boiler suits (ground crew denims) should be changed out of, before departure to the night stop hotel. Even the woolly pully was a better looking form of attire, IMHO. I've no doubt that after acceptance of travelling "down town" in the grow bag was authorised by "those who had to be obeyed", the feeling of superiority of the "shiny fleet" was enhanced. Perhaps I'm just old fashioned.

Smudge :ok:

[DCThumb]

I remember doing a Red Arrows support, back in the day! We all got changed down the back of Albert, as per orders and proceeded down town. Imagine our surprise later that evening when we discovered not only people out and about in red flying suits, but also in blue coveralls!!!

[Dougie M]

Hi Smudge
Things have changed these days with the "new" multi terrain combats but in the bad old days I was one of the protagonists of wearing flying suits to the accommodation and changing in comfort. A Belize trip would involve wearing blue to arrive at Gander and if you were carrying a disassembled Puma there were any amount of suppurating pipes to blotch the uniform whilst getting changed in freezing conditions down the back, mostly in the dark. Then on to Belize where it was K.D. and 35 deg C. The minging overalls were left draped all over the freight bay ready to be donned on the way back to Gander. Suitcases got smaller when that rule changed. I can't say that the folks in either place were that impressed with ill fitting No 2 HD in Canada or the multi coloured KD in Belize. Once we started to wear combats to fly in it all got much easier and now you can't find blue anywhere en route. If they sent us somewhere nice I'd wear mess kit to impress!

[smujsmith]

DC T,

I can relate to your experience, with a wee experience of my own. I was allocated as GE to a Red Arrows support trip to the Jersey Air Show. I believe that the "stars" had arrived the day before, their back seaters doing the A/Fs etc. off we went from sunny Lyneham to be hit with a talk down to the airfield sue to "poor viz", ISTR fog. Our Captain, one M*x B****n did a splendid job as always in some serious meteorological conditions to ensure that "The Reds" had their spares, back up crew and gizzits ! I believe we were the only aircraft to manage to land on that Friday, I'm sure our skipper had some input to that, and, our delight to be invited to the beer call in the hangar on landing was music to our ears. Now, the toe curling bit. A chap with Sqn Ldr rank badges on his shoulders in a bright red flying suit took my Captain to task, he berated him on his own attendance in the hangar. It was for "the performers" not the hangars on, he also took exception to our skipper bringing along non commissioned ranks. From his attitude, it seemed there was a bad smell coming from just below his nostrils. So, surprise that at 0700 hrs the next morning ASCOT 4*** departed for repairs to Lyneham. For some reason FATCOCK were unable to recover the Reds Support crew until the following Wednesday. Might I just say that having spent 30 years in the RAF from apprentice to Chief Tech, I never once came across a more obnoxious and self important piece of crap, wrapped up in a red growbag. I wonder why I don't go out of my way to watch Red Arrows displays these days?

Doug,

Combats ? Is the fleet on a constant war footing these days, or is the garb hand me downs from Army purchases ? I must say, I spent some time with SF GW1, and a growbag was never contemplated, DP trousers and a T shirt worked nicely, a black T shirt helped to hide the sweat from some of 4Ds low level work. A memory, GE wise, of the days of changing in to blues to go to the hotel in Gander. I did a couple of trips with a fellow GE who had to have his fun. The crew changed and went off to the Albert Ross as we completed the After Flight and refuel. After changing in to our own blues, he enjoyed spraying a good misting of water over the growbags, lined up along the para seat support rails. End result, with an average January overnight temperature of minus umpty ump, some serious laughs as the front end attempted to don their kit the next morning ! Akin to trying to doff a Jacobs cream cracker. Why my fellow GE felt the need to spray the water I still can't work out, we struggled to get changed ourselves, and we didn't spray ours. Now, did you do Pizza Delight, meet Vera and experience the stretchy soup ? I'm sure, like jungle jogs in the night it was just another tick in your log book.

Best

Smudge :ok:

[ksimboy]

Smuj, that's nearly as bad as the tale of the Captain who fell asleep in the TV room at Goose Bay with his boots off. Seemed a good idea at the time to fill them with water and put them in the freezer. He spent the next 3 days flying in trainers !!! Also removed blue light from RAF Police car en route to Gib, In flight very kindly lobbed it in their blast freezer. Never realised RAF coppers had so little sense of humour. :=

[smujsmith]

Ksimboy,

Some people just never change :eek:

Smudge:ok:

[1066]

Those with young children in the 80s may remember Mr Ben, the children's TV character.
The 2nd day of a Belize schedule in the late 70s we were all Mr Ben only Albert was our wardrobe. (Mr Ben used to come out of his wardrobe in a different outfit and then have an adventure in his new outfit!)
Gander to airport in blue, change to green bags as above then for the refuel at Nassau the Ruperts had to change into KD just to go into the terminal to file the ATC flight plan and check the met. Back to Albert, back into green bags to Belize then KD to the hotel. I think it said in GASOs that shirts were to be long sleeved presumably because the shiny fleet operated in KD or blue. For a long time there seemed to be no concept that the Herc crews did not need to wear long sleeves because there was no flash fire risk off the a/c!
Forward to Feb '82. We were used in the Brize taceval to test the movers and armourers by taking lots of concrete bombs to Wittering and then bring them back to Brize. There was a fuel crisis at the time and the MT fuel budget could not stretch to bringing the bombs back by road!
The best bit was turning up to 10 Sqn as the ACC and seeing all the mature aircrew, who always looked down their noses at any Albert crew partly because we wore sweaty green bags, looking very uncomfortable in various sizes of ill fitting green bags. Hard not to take the piss!
1066

[smujsmith]

1066,

What a shambles of a nightmare you describe. I was only a few years after those days, and common sense seemed to get a grip, somewhere around 1990. Grow bags to the Hotac, no loitering in the bar etc, and the same on return to Albert. I never saw anyone break the rules, by diving in to the bar in flying kit, with the exception of one C***n B****r, in Brussels, who did remove his growbag, but retained his "shoes DMS" with his civvies. I say retained because the said Captain didn't do "boots flying - aircrew for the use of" :eek: and preferred to operate his rudder through the "superior feedback":rolleyes: of his BATA made DMS airmen's shoes. Certainly saved on luggage space "down route" one pair of shoes does the lot !!! I deny any knowledge of being the NCO responsible for his free supply of flying shoes. I can certainly imagine the thought of "shiny" 10 having to don the growbag. If we have reached the time of "interaction" with other RAF units, I have a "wee" story of C130, navigational superiority, that might (or not) raise a chuckle. Though I doubt it's anything new to many current posters, along with a question for R4H. Next post gentlemen if I may.

Smudge :ok:

[R4H]

Hi Smuj, go ahead with the question.


I was around during the kd / blue / growbag era. Changing in the back with the ramp open and -30°C in Calgary and the wind blowing in. MAMS not really appreciating my instructions to close it up and give us a few minutes to sort ourselves out. On a route check, as a B Cat, it was mentioned in a debrief that some of the crew were in short sleave shirts and no-one was wearing a tie, Belize +30°C 85% humidity, and that I was responsible to ensure compliance with GASOs! Fair enough, make a point, but it was so heinous a crime it was then included in the formal write-up.

[smujsmith]

During my time as an AGE I heard the following story regarding aircraft navigation and its "relative" merits re FJ and Trash Hauling. I was also led to believe that our current raconteur of directional consultancy was the main protagonist from the Albert side.

" Sometime in the very early 90s ASCOT 4*** was detailed to return the remnants of the Ground equipment, ground tradesmen and the non flying aircrew (see, I even got the seniority right) of a Tornado Squadron to Marham from their exercise at Akrotiri. Due to loading delays (they couldn't get the Houchins on with the pitchforks they had used on the rest of the freight) the leg was continued, but the Albert crew were told to night stop Marham, as they would be out of crew duty hours. On landing at Marham, the crew were told that they would be accommodated on base, and so, never wishing to miss some sort of "route steal" accepted the invite of a beer or three at the passenger squadrons HQ on base. On arrival at the Royals only invite, the crew soon split to Nav and Drivers, and therefore mingled within their own environment. Our Albert Nav was soon in conversation with one of the Tonka squadrons senior navs, who showed him their flight planning room. A large map of Suffolk/Norfolk was mounted on the wall, with several different tracks emblazoned upon it. "what's this" asks our compass smith from Albert ? "Why" says senior FJ Wizzo, "that's our standard Nav routing from Marham". Our "hero" draws,from one of his ankle mounted pockets, a global map, festooned with loops and lines emanating from a small Wiltshire village, "no" he says, this is routing, that's local flying.

I have no idea of the veracity of that tale, I was certainly not on that particular route, but perhaps someone on this thread might know if it happened. I like to think it did.

My question for R4H,

I also heard of a "supersonic" Albert and an Air experience flight for a lady JENGO from a Phantom Sqn on an Akronelli Det. Not sure why, but your name came up as occupying the LH seat. Any truth ?

Smudge :ok:

[OldNavigator]

Reading the threads reminds me of various new bits of kit - Supersonic flight transition was frequently used with visitors to the flight deck. Also a special addition to some airframes, was the talking autopilot used by a visitor to the left of right hand seat - oh happy days when discussing this at Akrotiri with fast jet mates.

But I could never forget the LOX runs to Belize and the faff of changing in Gander & Dulles in mid winter

OR living in Riyadh during Granby with the strange water used from water bottles for tea - funny how my worst ever hangover was in a dry country. Who remembers SID at the BAe compounds.

14 happy years on Albert directing the pilots around the sky - hope to upload photos over the coming weeks - keep the stories flowing

[CoffmanStarter]

OldNav ...

PM if you need help posting pics ... only too pleased to help :ok:

[Brian 48nav]

Re uniform - back in '71 I had to endure a route check with a wing nav' who always suffered badly from 'small man syndrome'. It was from Dulles back to Lyneham and as I had arrived back at base very late on the evening before initial departure from Lyneham, I had missed the captain's pre-route briefing where maybe it was mentioned that No.1 dress blue was mandatory for Washington.

The little Welsh bar steward downgraded me from B to C - I thought about grabbing him by the throat and asking what the f**k my uniform had to do with him. Having been on a low-level detachment at Luqa with him 6 months before, where he was the operating lead nav' of a 9 ship and I ( still then a Fg Off just prior to promotion ) was sat on the bunk as the stream leader's nav', I did not have too much respect for his professional ability. Bloody useless came to mind!

It reminds me of a story the late John Lambert told me - on one of his last trips as a skipper before taking 8 year option and joining Britannia Airways, he was bounced by a very well known trapper on a flight somewhere east. At the debrief the trapper opened with, 'Well young Lambert, first of all you could do with a fooking haircut' - John replied, 'If that's all you got to say J**k, you can fu*k off', and then walked out. John was a first-class pilot and brilliant good operator, so I doubt that our trapper had much to criticise.

[R4H]

Sorry Smudge. No memories of this.
Ref route checks: As a new Co-pilot D Cat, was on a route check through Gander. All change, problems in Bermuda. My checker became my Captain. Gander Bermuda Gander Lyneham. Shutting down he asked for my cat card and filled it in. Packing up he asked how long I had been on the sqn. 3 months said I whereupon he took my cat card back, scored out the C and gave me a D saying I hadn't been around long enough!

[ancientaviator62]

My tale of the AOC and his lack of KD to change into was related in an earlier post. As for trappers, well 'I was one ' airdrop and route. Local examiner and two tours at the Gp EU. But like to think I used a dollop of common sense. My experience as a 'newbie' always coloured all my actions when I was elevated to the pantheon of the 'Gods'. I always found a useful corrective to any tendency to lofty superiority was to ask myself 'what would I do in the same circumstances ?'

[smujsmith]

R4,

Thanks for that, it will remain a tale to recount in the future, should the assembled company require. Though, once again, just like many tales, probably yet another ASCOT rumour !!

Smudge :ok:

[OmegaV6]

Smudge (and others) apologies for the lateness to this, and the length of the following ..but the "supersonic" tale .... (due to age/senility I need a trip to the loft to retrieve logbooks to get the Captains name nor can I remember any of the rest of the crew, although I think T***y C*****f may have been the Nav, and the Loady "may" have been "B*b C**k")

Back in the past just after LXX left Cyprus we still resupplied Masirah and many other middle east places, this was done by the "Herc Det" which operated out of Cyprus for 6 week rotations. As we were away more than a month the Pilots had to do their monthly "circuits" at Cyprus. It became common for the "2 winged master race" to invite the younger, more attractive ladies from the hospital and/or the teachers to join them for a "trip around the island" whilst this occurred.

On one such det, OC Ops (Akrotiri) gave my captain a very hard time as there was a rather "large", and loud, lady teacher who had never been invited to fly and was giving said OC Ops an earbashing ... we were tasked to take her flying..... At some point early in the trip she asked how fast the Herk could go .... young co-pilot instantly replies, with a very straight face - "Sorry that's Top secret" .... well she started nagging and nagging ... so eventually young co-pilot points to ASI and says "That's a coded instrument, it is designed not to tell the truth, when it reads 2.0 its actually mach 1.0 the speed of sound ....." which, for some reason she actually believed ..... more nagging and "can we do it " .... so captain called for the "pre-supersonic checks" which T***y (?) made up, followed by "Eng - supersonic power" so I set 1010 and we accelerate from 160 knots to 200 .... as we approach 200 the captain starts to "wrestle" with the controls as the "buffet" was getting "hard to handle" .. as we passed through 200 knots the aircraft "jumped" 100 ft, and we nearly shat ourselves .... as without saying anything the loady joined in by lifting the galley floor about two feet then dropping it !! No-one expected THAT "sonic boom" !! so captain calls for immediate power reduction, wrestles controls a bit more, another bang as we go back through 200 (expected this time) and that was it ... lady concerned is given strict instructions NOT to tell anyone what we had done, repeated many times through the rest of the flight .....

We land and the Loady spoke to the ground crew, we disembark and the first thing she does is blab to the see-in crew .. who instantly tell her to shut up as it is a NATO secret, and the word spread around Akrotiri very quickly .... everyone joining in the deception. Apparently she was not a well-liked person .. :(

A couple of days later Loady and I are in the mess when I get a phone call .. the captain, very short message ... "we're coming to your mess.. get permission for us to get in" .. so a quick word with the CMC and the front end are made welcome in the Sgt's Mess. It seems another Herk crew had arrived and not been told of the occurrence.. and when she blabbed to them they told her, in no uncertain terms, not to be so bloody stupid etc etc ..... at which point she was going to kill my front enders!! They were awarded "honorary members" status of the Sgts Mess until we flew home....

In those days it was quite common for the Officers to be invited to the Sgts Mess, and occasionally we lower mortals ended up in the O's Mess ... there being one occasion when a certain Lynham Staish ..Gp Capt H*******f and his guests turned up unexpectedly and his passing comment to me was " ..... when we get home can you bring me your commissioning certificate .. I'd love to see it !!" this was just after the captain had introduced me to the AOC as "My Engineer - Flt Lt *****" ... at least on that occasion I was in civvies and not the growbag with the borrowed rank tabs of the previous night !!

[smujsmith]

OmegaV6,

Thank you very much, virtually verbatim the story I heard many moons ago. Proof positive that the Albert fleet has always had a sense of humour, unequalled. It was the loady and the galley floor/supersonic bang that had me in stitches back then, it's just re occurred. Thanks again

Best

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

OV6 ... Brilliant ... Best yet :D:D:D:D

[Top Bunk Tester]

Reminds me of the incident down south when two flying flick knives bounced one of 1312's finest at Mach 1 ++, believe the frame was in the hangar for a week afterwards undergoing overstress checks, occurred around late '93 :=

[Dougie M]

Good one OV6


It may have been the same time, but I was on a crew in Akronelli with the mighty J*e H******ff as guest captain. He was offered all the VIP visitors' perks but decided to accompany the crew to the mess then down to the Aki Arms. There we were accosted by some comely Wrafs on a hen night and the wrong side of a few brandy sours. Sussing out by our moon tans that we were a Herc crew they asked us our crew positions. Not wishing to offend, we admitted being the Eng, Loadie, GE and SVC etc. till one lass asked J*e. In his booming voice he stated "I am a Group Captain in the Royal Air Force"
When we turned round we were on our own. Low profile, not.

[lsd]

OmegaV6

Excellent story of supersonic Hercules there.......but, heard it back in the 60s from one of our loadmasters called Mike B.....e who was on the VIP Hastings in Cyprus on his previous posting. I cannot recall the identity of the flight deck guest , but at a subsequent cocktail party/AOC reception when this notable feat of going supersonic (in a Hastings!!) was told to a very surprised AOC the largely one-sided interviews next morning were not as amusing as the flight itself.

Could be the reason Mike ended up on a helicopter squadron - not much opportunity to go supersonic there.

ps. Mike was a great guy with lots of potential, wonder how he got on?

[smujsmith]

Nice one LSD, no doubt flying supersonic was well within the scope of all transport aircraft of the period. I just chuck this back to the original query re the Supersonic Herk at Akrotiri. The main points of the story I heard was that the young lady "guesting" on the trip was a newly appointed WRAF JENGO on an F4 Squadron on APC, who had cadged a trip around the island, the point that always stuck in my mind was the Loadmaster dropping the galley floor on the "vinegar stroke" :eek: The bang means a lot (crew coordination). Otherwise, OmegaV6 recalled the event perfectly as I was told it, apart from that R4H was the skipper. Now, having solved that one, anyone know about the empty beer cans, rolling off the galley floor to the freight bay, in full view of the Army Pax ? What about the pongo holding the lashing tape controls while the Captain makes use of the urinal ? Must be loads of myths to bust, claim prior or otherwise. This before we get round to spiders appearing in front of arachnophobic Captains, and ping pong balls deluging Navs. Now, where to start gentlemen :rolleyes: keep em coming. One thing for sure, a certain Loadmaster must feature in a few of these "tales of Albert" !

Smudge :ok:

[ExAscoteer]

ping pong balls deluging Navs.
Smudge :ok:

I saw Pedro (P**e T**s [RIP]) do that to a Nav.

"Here's your (boiling hot) beverage of choice Nav. OOOPS!"

(Fake trip, with contents of cup thrown towards Nav).

The Nav screamed, actually screamed!


How we laughed...

[smujsmith]

Ex Ascoteer,

Now we're talking serious humour on Albert, and "Pedro" was the epitome of that. I always thought that he was responsible for the spider, and also the Pongo Parade, with Colonel "in the wet" ! The beer cans may well have been in Ksimboys retinue. It's funny how the Loadies always played a major part in the humour on Albert, perhaps escapism from their duties at the galley :eek: somehow, I can't picture AA62 with his pinny on, as Gibbo (bless him) did a few times on the routes I had the honour to accompany him on. My favourite memory of the man was lashing up his Walkman to the PA system and enjoying a Disco back across the pond from Bermuda/Lyneham direct. A long dance, with his trainee lady Loadie being beyond belief at an empty freight bay Disco floor. I know that many "jolly japes" were initiated by the Loadies, and most enjoyed by all on board. I raise a glass to the Loadmasters, with serious respect. The ping Pong balls was I believe a Pedro trick on a Nav one route in the early days (way before my time). The locker over the Nav station for "aeronautical publications", in Dougs case "Babes", was filled to bursting with ping pong (or is it Whiff waff?) balls. On looking for a published reference the Nav was deluged with the ping pong balls. Adds to the excitement if on a low level jobby I suspect. Of course, Doug will know the validity of that.

Smudge :ok:

[mr ripley]

I remember when Pedro was a ground school instructor during one of my OCU courses. He had a thing going about awarding an Honorary Baldric badge for reasons which i can't quite recall.

Stories linked to him were the exploding ALM, with boots filled with dry ice and a maybe the remains of a flying suit. Lots of fun with chains and tensioners and luggage. Using a brown chinagraph to fake skid marks in all your underwear. The fake shower.

But his most famous story (apologies if its been mentioned before) was the pax trip with a load of Gurkhas when he disappeared before flight up the rear escape hatch, but not before briefing a passenger that under no circumstances should the hatch be closed whilst he was outside. ALM2 then closes the hatch to much protestations from the passenger. Pedro meanwhiles enters the cockpit from the forward escape hatch and hide. After landing, Pedro has changed into a shredded flying suit with talc on his face and bangs on the hatch to be let in, making on that t he has been there all the time.

Other japes I remember was the NTS overheat, the leaking cups, the leaking roof (sometimes it was a cup of water down the neck), the sneezing Eng (flicking wet wipes).

The thing about Lyneham was the people, did the late G***** B**** really go out for sausages one Christmas Eve and was found behind one of the sofas in the Ante Room on Boxing Day?
Did an ATC cadet really vomit down S** V**** neck during a bumpy CPT trip?

[ExAscoteer]

Did an ATC cadet really vomit down S** V**** neck during a bumpy CPT trip?

Yes. I was the Co when it happened.

[Top Bunk Tester]

I would have paid to see the look on the good Sqn Ldr's face. One of the best, if not the best exec and boss at LYN. :D

[Dougie M]

It was well known that Mr V***e was not noted for his back slapping bonhomie on the flight deck or even in the simulator where an unmonitored mobile phone tone could elicit threats of dire retribution. In truth he had a heart of gold if you needed help. There was ONE particular pilot however who was actually called Grumps and on a particular det in France a small boy who was suitably in awe of the grave gentleman barfed up a surprising quantity of chocolate milk over his shoulder into his lap. The milk had been in the little boy long enough to curdle and only his instant removal from the flight deck by his group leader saved him from a grisly fate. Not a word was spoken on pain of death till we landed. Checks were done by hand signals. At last the great man spoke. "I hate vomit!" he uttered savagely.

[ExAscoteer]

It was well known that Mr V***e was not noted for his back slapping bonhomie on the flight deck or even in the simulator

When I first met him I thought to myself here we go, what a w****r.

Then I went down route with his 'brother'.

He was the best Flt Cdr I ever had barnone.

[smujsmith]

:ok:One poster on here (Flight Idle) will remember well our trip on Albert circa 1970. Part of White team RAF Colerne, we always managed to get a couple of "volunteers" to accompany Sqn Ldr Whelch and his crew on the post Base 3 air test. On this occasion myself and flight idle were the chosen victims. It was always an enjoyable experience once the low level bits were done. On this occasion, Roy Gaunt, a great Loadie, had served up some seriously hot Cornish pasties and coffee early. I was standing behind the Captain, Flight Idle behind the Co as we bombed down the runway at mega speed and pulled up, at I believe 2G in a zoom climb to test safety valve function. As a weedy 19 year old, I had little resistance to the effects of G and duly headed for the flight deck floor, abandoning the contents of my hands, very hot coffee and a scalding hot Cornish pastie. All ended up over the "drivers airframe" and one Bert Poulton (a splendid Flight Engineer) accompanied by a lot of negative vibes through the intercom. Now perhaps Flight idle might like to complete this tale, suffice to say, I had a long wait before I was allowed on a post servicing air test after that. I do remember our Flight Sgt hiding me away if the said Captain appeared in our hangar.

Smudge:ok:

[WE992]

Roy Gaunt - There's a name I have not heard for a while. Still flies gliders at Upavon I believe.

[Vasco Sodcat]

TBT,

Spot-on with the date; amongst the many Dets, I was down there Sep 93 - Dec 93. A certain D**g B*****y was the Detco and, I believe, the skipper of the poor Albert in question. He said that he had one of the little beasties in each echelon, and they roared off dead ahead, accelerating to supersonic. Albert did not have the dexterity to get out of the ensuing carnage :ugh:

[Top Bunk Tester]

Vasco

Mmmmm Not sure it was DB in the LH seat when it occurred, I only say that as I was his Eng and I don't recall the event 1st hand but recounted by another crew on landing so could have been the Electric Sporran, G***f C****e, P** D***y or even Scroggs. But then again after a quiz night in the Sgts' Mess they could've launched an AIM9L up our chuff and I wouldn't have noticed :}

Ex Ascoteer
Beleive that was the view of many at LYN until they met his 'Twin Brother' then your outlook suddenly changes, remember the Nav and I throwing him into the pool fully clothed in Mombassa and him trying to get the Kenyan guards to arrest us. This was just after the Capt was seen paddling across same pool to the tune of Hawaii-5-0 ...... in my Samsonite suitcase :)

[smujsmith]

Aha, "down south" again, and why not. I offer a minor tale of a man I hold dear as one of the finest occupants of Alberts left hand seat that I experienced. I refer to one H****y J*****n, who I believe I have referenced in previous posts. At the time of my encounters with him, a member of 30 Squadron I believe. His descent to Grantley Adams, followed by an order to "report to the tower, and by God you better be a black man" certainly quieted that particular event! I remember standing behind him at the bottom end of a trip from ASI to MPA. Long tedious and once we tanked up, boring. Our approach elicited a crosswind on the main runway, that was outside of the limitations of the aircraft. Should we hang around and await a weather change or take the diversion? Not bloody likely, having done a det in the recent past our Captain, knew that there was a short, but into a high wind, runway available as an option to the crosswind. Now, I've flown gliders and even stood behind the Captain on approaches to Sarajevo, the scrap of tarmac that this bloke aimed us at was ridiculous, but we landed and stopped comfortably. I'm sure many are familiar with the man I speak of, certainly a man who represents the high quality of airmanship our fleet was endowed with. And I don't mind including young Doug the Nav in that list. Now, I know of a few more H J stories from way back, but they are all second hand. Anyone have anything that might contribute to the mans input "down route" ?

Smudge :ok:

[mr ripley]

Ah yes S** V**** twin brother, excellent! I agree. The best Flt Commander I ever knew.
It wasn't D*** B****** but not sure, I was down there just after with the same Det Co
Does anybody remember the story of P*** O**** and K*** O****** and the MPA dining in night?

[Dougie M]

Just drifting off thread to relate from another source that the much vaunted "purple" School of Tech Training will now only be pongos at Lyneham.
The fish heads are staying at HMS Sultan and the R.A.F. will stay at Cosford so all we have in the old "Home of the Hercules" is the REME and half a million solar panels. Cosmic!




http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/a2743c43-b56d-40f0-bc19-8ce5993b89b0_zpsze2rvajj.jpg

[smujsmith]

Looks like the runways are still useable Doug, should push come to shove. Though, I'm damn sure that as the RAF left Lyneham, they did so with heads held high, the place certainly did an enormous amount of good work for many causes. Nice shot by the way!

Smudge :ok:

[Dougie M]

As printed elsewhere, that's another R.A.F. Station squaddified. Of the ones I served at in the U.K. there's only Benson and Brize left. All the rest are now "Pondicherry Barracks" or somesuch.
Going back for a moment to H****y J*****n who was a good pal. When we were headed back across the Atlantic and twilight was upon us the Flt Eng said "How much of the fight time do you want to call day flying?" and H****y said "When you can't see me any more we will call that the start of night flying" Good bloke

[ksimboy]

Remember a route many years ago when Hurricane Gilbert took out Jamaica, HJ was the captain. Our lords and masters did the honourable thing as we were revitined to take support and supplies to the island, and said "stay on the ground as long as necessary to make sure HJ's kinfolk were ok". Telephones were down, but he managed to find out everything was ok not long after landing, we being true gents of course stayed on the deck for the full 3 hours required to make lunch in Kingston. HJ was slightly concerned that we had to reverse out of the parking slot in case we did some damage, until it was pointed out to him there were Cessnas on the GA pan upside down in trees, plus the terminal area we were next to had no roof to windows. A lovely man to fly with.

[smujsmith]

Doug and Ksimboy,

I too had the good fortune to accompany HJ on at least one route. The one in question was a trip to MPA, I don't think it was a Tanker rotation, just a standard truckie route. After our long flight down from ASI we found that the cross wind on the main runway was well out of limits. HJ opted for the secondary runway, which to be honest, I thought was extremely short (not that what I thought mattered), I'm sure you chaps will know how usable it actually was. But a fine landing was accomplished. As you both say, a truly smashing gentleman to travel with.

Smudge:ok:

[salad-dodger]

That looks like just the same story you told on Thursday smudgey. Just a few less embellishments today.

S-D

[smujsmith]

S-D,

Quite right sir, my senior moments are obviously becoming more regular. Curiously, I wondered where HJ had appeared from. Thanks for informing me.

Smudge :ok:

[smujsmith]

So,

post senile D, I heard a story of HJ doing the radios into a Caribbean Airport, where he came across some "heavy dude stuff", any of the proffesionals have any input on that, before I shoot myself in the foot again ?

Smudge

[Dougie M]

Smuj
Anything to do with the content of your post #3684 perchance?

[smujsmith]

That's the one Doug. Is it true, does anyone know the story with any accuracy ? Maybe it's just a rumour. Just curious. I shall go and have a lie down in a darkened room now.

Smudge :ok:

[Brian 48nav]

Re your post 3684 - when I was a baby Herc' nav in '67 that story was being told - I think it related to a Beverley or Hastings, with a Caribbean sounding Signaller, inbound to somewhere in India or Pakistan.

[smujsmith]

Thanks Brian,

No doubt there are many myths that stayed with the Hercules fleet as a hangover from the days of the Hastings and Bev. Even I manage to repeat them, frequently :ugh:

Smudge :ok:

[Haraka]

I was a baby Herc' nav in '67 that story was being told - I think it related to a Beverley or Hastings, with a Caribbean sounding Signaller,
The version I heard was about F**d d* C***a taking a Hastings in to a Caribbean location on days of yore.

[Dougie M]

Language Difficulties.
On my first Det in Ethiopia it was decided to entertain the Polish "White Eagles" squadron who were equipped with Mil-8 Hip helicopters and carried our DZ safety teams up country. These venerable aircraft would clatter away every morning, provide open sandwiches and vodka for the DZ party's lunch then chug back to Bole field before dark. Nobody admitted to speaking English but they understood O.K.
At the appointed hour the Poles arrived and launched straight away into our duty free whisky, leaving their own pot still vodka on the table. After a spell the Detco asked if anybody spoke Polish and B***n T****r said "Well I speak Russian which is pretty close" "Go for it" said the Detco.
Standing up B***n said "Pozdravieniya tovarishchi" and bedlam ensued. All the Poles leapt through windows and doors and stayed outside in the dark. "Good one" we said and so I tried plan B. Stepping out into the dark I ventured "Spricht hier jeder Deutsch?"
A gruff voice answered "Ja" "What's wrong" I said in kraut. "Your friend" came the reply "Is he KGB?"
When all was sorted the Poles had a chat and slowly filed back out of the woods. The one who answered me then said in German "Your friend can speak to us in Russian but don't you speak German again. Some of these guys have long memories"
Several bottles of rot gut later nobody was talking sense anyway.
Twoje zdrowie






http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/28b8fe38-9b2c-483f-b5e3-4a8726b44713_zpsgqoxhree.jpg

[Alcazares48]

We also inadvertently upset the Poles. We used to fly over the fantastic landscape with music blaring out over the PA, usually Ride of the Valkyries on the run in. It was some Polish anniversary so it was decided to drop a harness pack with whisky and goodies for the DZ party. The Eng had a tape of national anthems (bizarre I know)so it was decided that we would blast out the Polish on the run in, over the comms as well this time.
Unfortunately the Eng played the Russian national anthem by mistake!

QUOTE=Dougie M;9119794]Language Difficulties.
On my first Det in Ethiopia it was decided to entertain the Polish "White Eagles" squadron who were equipped with Mil-8 Hip helicopters and carried our DZ safety teams up country. These venerable aircraft would clatter away every morning, provide open sandwiches and vodka for the DZ party's lunch then chug back to Bole field before dark. Nobody admitted to speaking English but they understood O.K.
At the appointed hour the Poles arrived and launched straight away into our duty free whisky, leaving their own pot still vodka on the table. After a spell the Detco asked if anybody spoke Polish and B***n T****r said "Well I speak Russian which is pretty close" "Go for it" said the Detco.
Standing up B***n said "Pozdravieniya tovarishchi" and bedlam ensued. All the Poles leapt through windows and doors and stayed outside in the dark. "Good one" we said and so I tried plan B. Stepping out into the dark I ventured "Spricht hier jeder Deutsch?"
A gruff voice answered "Ja" "What's wrong" I said in kraut. "Your friend" came the reply "Is he KGB?"
When all was sorted the Poles had a chat and slowly filed back out of the woods. The one who answered me then said in German "Your friend can speak to us in Russian but don't you speak German again. Some of these guys have long memories"
Several bottles of rot gut later nobody was talking sense anyway.
Twoje zdrowie






http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/28b8fe38-9b2c-483f-b5e3-4a8726b44713_zpsgqoxhree.jpg[/QUOTE]

[chickenlover]

Ahhh the wunnerful Poles and their Mi8s....I was lucky enough to do a stint on the DZ, flown there and back in one of the beasts. A grand day out, but with an alarming amount of Wodka quaffing going on. After the last drop, the Herc boys came round for a 'DZ inspection' which drew much applause and cheering from the 2 pilots I was with. It was then our turn to leave and we sharply wheeled around and soundly wired the joint. Sadly a bit too soundly. We bounced off a slight raise in the ground in a cloud of dust and the big fan up top made a very strange noise. We climbed away with a lot of yelling and turned for Addis. I think in an attempt to shut me up, the skipper hoofed his FO out of the right seat and let me fly it back to Addis. I suspect in 1984 there weren't many flying officers whose first flight at the controls of a helicopter was in a Mi8 !
Anybody remember that bar we drank in that resembled the strange bar full of aliens in 'Star Wars' ? was it in/near a station ?

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img802_zpslitix6p3.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img803b_zpshmcz1eud.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img804_zpsjmjr7w7q.jpg

[November4]

Anybody remember that bar we drank in that resembled the strange bar full of aliens in 'Star Wars' ? was it in/near a station ?

Buffet de la Gare

[Dougie M]

They would serve "Meta" beer there till 9pm then the beer would "run out" and we would all be drinking half bottles of local Soave wine! Anybody remember the toilet arrangement or the scrap between rival "queens of the nightfighters"?

[ksimboy]

The queue for the toilets, where the men would get fed up waiting and hydrate the bushes. With the ladies of the night sizing up potential clients as they waited in line. Fantastic det, with some great flying.

[Dougie M]

True that the amenities at the "Buffet" were pretty basic but the country was being run down in classic African commie fashion by comrade Mengistu. (whatever happened to him?) If the crew fancied a more civilised evening, then an Italian at Castelli's was good. A bit unnerving to find the eponymously endowed Titziana from Mario's in Swindon working there.
The only alternative was the local eating houses serving Njera (a crepe bandage made of fermented wheat) with a fiery curry dish called Wat and washed down with some amber liquid called Tedg. No wonder we got the runs. The flying was spectacular though.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/e9f10ad9-4816-4cb3-af3f-e51a8de34b33_zps7phzcthh.jpg


This is a DZ inspection. The helo and the crowd line are in the way of the run in

[CoffmanStarter]

Crikey ... That Artificial Horizon on the Mi8 looks more than 'agricultural' ... If it was vacuum powered then it must have been an industrial scale Hoover :eek:

[ksimboy]

Cracking pic Dougie, only doing air land , my memories include watching Albert bounce up and down while the locals danced waiting for the truck to arrive after filling one. Also when we ran out of sweets sent from UK to give to the children, giving them the yellow ear plugs telling them they were chewing gum. The kids would proudly show us the next day they were still chewing the same "gum":=

[Brian W May]

Op Bushel

I presume you've all seen my YouTube video - the uncut ITN coverage.

Search Op Bushel and look for my name, there are 4 videos, some duplication, but it came that way on the tape ITN sent me.

[Dougie M]

One of the advantages of low levelling on Op Bushel was when little gems appeared in the otherwise empty countryside. The domed church centre foreground just HAD to be visited.




http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/61d5dfca-0e08-43f5-8df9-ea1ad4115263_zpscm6djlyp.jpg

[Dougie M]

Reinforced with several crates of Grolsch in a minibus we eventually found this magnificent church in the middle of nowhere. The locals were more interested in the empty flip top bottles we had.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/541d5e3b-6d50-4236-b4a5-9e0727928311_zpsqleoblxw.jpg

[Dougie M]

We asked why the locals didn't want the full bottles and they helpfully explained that the local pub sign was an upturned tin can on a stick and that's where they drank.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/c406992f-782e-4c4c-973f-67be34f165ce_zpsxzapfxu2.jpg

[Dougie M]

They also told us that if we wanted a more personal service then to look out for a door with a red ribbon over it. Ideally we should look for a tin cup and a red ribbon. On thanking them for the advice the final departing word was that if the lady involved also had a good time it was customary to get your money back. Now that never happens in Manchester Road.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/031b840a-bac5-498c-95b4-9f73cc86c6c3_zps4h3umw4q.jpg

[smujsmith]

Brian #3708,

Thanks for posting the vid link, certainly some faces that were familiar from my days, though I had no Ethiopian involvement. Did I detect a certain C***n B***le in the vids ? As has recently been witnessed, the advanced state of oncoming old age ensures that the old brain box doesn't work so well these days. Some who know me will verify there's little change.

Doug, as always, your input raises a smile, though your seeming knowledge of Manchester road might raise an eyebrow or two :rolleyes:

Smudge :ok:

[Vasco Sodcat]

I remember that we nicknamed the local red wine Duckhams - was it Duqueme or some such?

[Dougie M]

It actually WAS an Axumite wine called Dukam

[smujsmith]

And Manchester Road ????

Smudge :ok:

[Brian W May]

And Manchester Road ????

Smudge

Swindon I reckon, near the Magic Roundabout . . .

[CoffmanStarter]

Vasco ...

We nicknamed the local red wine Duckhams ...

I thought 'Duckhams' was/is Green :confused:

Must have been good stuff :yuk:

[ksimboy]

Like the beer from the Awash Brewery in Addis. They would wash the bottles and leave them in the sun to dry, then fill them. It became standard practise to hold the bottle up to the light to check for insects and other FOD prior to drinking (at least for the first few!!)

[Dougie M]

In the Buffet de la Gare there was precious little light, as I recall, to inspect the stubbies of local beer. The safest bet was to drink the contents through lightly clenched teeth. Especially as one of the 47AD boys claimed to have found an ex mouse in one bottle.(Could have been a plant to get free beer).
The delumination of the place covered a lot of sins and often one was first aware of the approaching presence of "nightfighters" at the back of the group when a delicate hand administered a firm grasp of the lunchbox in the dark. Trying to force beer back through clenched teeth led to all sorts of hydraulic consequences. I believe.

[kaitakbowler]

Re the OP BUSHELL ITN video, it was nice to see 48Cmd Workshops get a mention for their part in supporting the OP, that chippy's shop being the old 103MU shop, another bit of blue gone khaki.

PM

[Brian W May]

Yeah, I felt everyone got a fair crack of the whip.

We had the film crew with us for a week or so.

Bumper Rowley was my skipper (RIP).

[Dougie M]

So what did we achieve after Bob Geldof's vulgar exhortations. Well the Foreign and Commonwealth Office got some good P.R. for the millions it spent but the poor starving folk in Wollo and Tigre provinces were last on Mengistu's Christmas card list.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/c6819c40-eb1d-492a-b2e2-e1d0e2eb18d8_zpsqn8bvfu4.jpg

[Dougie M]

After dropping 15 tons of grain 3 times a day for several days, the self same bags were seen for sale at the central market or "Mercato" in Addis. The regime's commissars made the locals load all the bags onto waiting Russian trucks to take them back. That's why the boys cut the bags so that they would burst on impact.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/62a1c6ed-6852-40c2-b167-7c602faa5d01_zpsjdowdjc9.jpg

[Dougie M]

But were we downhearted. Of course not. Another experience. We just went to a beer house T*m P*****y called the Airmen's Mess and discussed it all with his "sisters"


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/d8cbf46d-93c3-497f-b92d-a941739960cd_zpsmy6mcz3w.jpg

[Dougie M]

The great man himself, shortly before armed troops requested him to desist from firing a cannon onto the corrugated iron roofs of the local community.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/a227abe7-f241-4367-b7a6-c4d9767e5742_zpsj2uhquzn.jpg

[mini]

That looks suspiciously like the view from the Hilton...

[Brian W May]

Looks distinctly like Tin Town, where a certain good looking Master ALM known for GEE partook . . .

Me and the GE rode shotgun for him . . . happy days. So remember the Buffet de la Gare, hmm interesting.

[smujsmith]

Crikey Doug #3725,

You certainly moved in the higher echelons of "night fighting" :rolleyes:

Smudge :ok:

[WE992]

Post 3725 looks just my kind of entertainment.

[CoffmanStarter]

Doug (#3723) ... I bet poor old Albert lost a few Kts TAS with all those bug splats :eek:

[smujsmith]

Coff :=

With the aerodynamic profile of Albert, I suspect only a vulture strike, removing a large proportion of structure would slow the beast down significantly. or were you referring to #3725, always the problem with multiple posts:ouch:

Brian #3728, do tell.

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

^^^ :D ^^^

[Dougie M]

You have seen this one before. Coff posted it while I was learning the ropes. The eagles used to ridge soar along the high plateaux hunting for baby baboons, goats etc. They were very aggressive and if an Albert invaded their territory they would attack by facing the aircraft and splaying their claws in front of them. Avoiding action was too slow even at the 240 kts airspeed we were at. The extended wing section shown is only a third of a single wingspan and all the rest of the bird is inside the frame. I also was on a flight which collided with an eagle on the leading edge between No.3 and No.4 engine. We had a full simulator style bleed air fault with lights, gauges, bells and whistles. As to Albert's aerodynamics, no change was noticed.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/9de2a911-7894-46ed-995c-91108d305d9c_zpsa3ckkkqz.jpg

[smujsmith]

Great post Doug, and exactly my point on the finery of aerodynamic performance. Another attack on the LOX Convertor I reckon ! We also know that an Albert landed at Gander ? With a few tons of ice on the radome, I believe there was an Air Clues article on that one? I hope no one thinks I'm trying to put the aircraft down, I only volunteered to be a GE knowing the "robustness" of the airframe and the power of the mighty Allison. Sounds like your hit atwixt engines would have resulted in popping the wing isolation valve, not a regular practice in my experience.

Smudge :ok:

[ksimboy]

Dougie,
isn't there a photo doing the rounds somewhere of the stern section of a stork (maribou variety i believe) with its legs and part of arse end sticking out of leading edge?

[CoffmanStarter]

I've not seen the Stork pic ... But here is a Norwegian Albert sans Whooper Swan of c. 10 Kg AUW imbedded in the leading edge :eek:

http://www.nordicbirdstrike.com/Birdstrike_C-130_ENOL.pdf

[Dougie M]

How about this one from a MAC Herc flight deck.
OMG. It's a bald eagle fer chrissake. The country's emblem!
It's a wonder they weren't all posted to Kodiak Island forever.




http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/a37dd6ee-0e21-4347-9df5-598e24c4934a_zpsjnlvrfwd.jpg

[ksimboy]

A quicker thinking loadie could have had that in the oven!

[Dougie M]

You know Amercun loadies, Ksimboy. If you use the oven or the elsan you clean it yourself. They were amazed at Royboy's bacon omelettes done during a climb to 12k feet for Free fall and straight back down again. Better than an egg timer.

[Just This Once...]

But were we downhearted. Of course not. Another experience. We just went to a beer house T*m P*****y called the Airmen's Mess and discussed it all with his "sisters"


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/d8cbf46d-93c3-497f-b92d-a941739960cd_zpsmy6mcz3w.jpg

Is that a smartphone Dougie?

Ahead of their time in so many ways!

:ok:

[Dougie M]

Good spot JTO.
Original Airmen's Mess pics since lost so artistic license employed. Sad though that an inanimate object takes your interest.

[smujsmith]

With you Doug, nothing on the table offers anything other than "distraction" from the "Main course" , surely a little poetic licence is acceptable here ?

Smudge:ok:

[Dougie M]

Going back to birds bums. Ksimboy, was this the turkey vulture you were talking about?


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/6e201d95-10ae-4371-b5da-7e3793dc599b_zps4xnqwfcd.jpg

[ksimboy]

That'll be the one, misidentified bird type, which landed me in so much trouble in the Hotel Gander on l(o)adies nights !!!

[Dougie M]

Anybody remember Cathy and Gail?

[Wander00]

I remember Jackie and Bridie on FIBS - "Hookers at Kellys want our knickers for a windsock!" in a broad northern accent

[Dougie M]

Certainly the most catastrophic in flight structural damage that I have known, where a recovery to safe landing was carried out, was the collision in the S.A. with the Sea King. A very tragic event in poor weather which left mental scars but superlative airmanship saved the situation from a total disaster.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/62f9a2d7-96b4-4bf7-999a-91031faaf5ff_zpsfiqpkknl.jpg

[ksimboy]

The day i learnt one should NEVER promise the passengers (all RN from RFA Reliant) that we would try and make the mundane MRR sortie as interesting and exciting as possible for them.

[Dougie M]

Poor old 206.
Fully restored to service only for D**o to run over a landmine in it whilst landing on a strip in Afghan. All photographed from 200 yards upwind as briefed.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/a3e17922-a6c4-42e3-8423-e498b88146b4_zpshptewq4y.jpg