Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
bring on your tale. Omega V6 your pics would be most welcome.
I recall that the USAF used to call Fayeteville 'Fayetnam' !
The two VRs I did involved some rather energetic parties. The one I did when the RAF only sent a couple of umpires we were 'adopted' by the Canadians as I recall. Great days, great times.

[smujsmith]

AA62,

Thanks for that and apologies if I have posted this previously. It's just a tale of GE life "down route".

I can only proffer this as something Gopher01 might recognise as "part of the job". I ask only that I'm not looking for sympathy, just to relate a trip from my experience as an AGE.

Having returned from an SF detachment to the gulf on New Year's Eve 1990. As a result of some "injuries received", the medics decided I was unfit to carry out my duties as a GE, and put me "sick at home", UFN ! After a week or so of being bollocked by SWMBO, I was grateful for the call from SAGE (Senior Aircraft Ground Engineer) asking if I felt well enough to do a trip for him. I was grateful, and surprised when he informed me that I was to be GE on a trip to Travis AFB to collect a load of the latest sidewinders for our air defence assets in the gulf. The trip outbound was, as always, pretty standard, with a night stop Gander followed by a refuel on the way to Travis. On arrival at Travis, I, like the rest of the crew looked forward to a night out, it was not to be. The Cargo pack had snags, HF1 had snags, No3 prop had snags, and as we had a serious need to RTB with our load, they needed fixing. So, I followed a logical path and fixed each in order. The hardest bit was finding a gasket and clamp for the one blown on the Cargo pack FCSOV, surely an easy task on a station that had both C130s and 141s based there ? Try waking them up at 0200 local. I got the parts I needed and eventually had everything ready for testing. With a couple of hours to go before the crew returning to the aircraft I decided that there was little point in going to the hotel, and got my head down on the top bunk.

On arrival I explained to the Eng that we needed to do a leak check on the cargo bay pack using the GTC to ensure it was OK. The prop snag was simple and required only the observation of the crew during start up to certify the fix. HF snag, well, I enjoyed the chat with Mrs Smudge. So, tired, and looking forward to getting into my hammock after take off, I mounted the ladder on the RH side, to leak check the cargo pack. That was when this turned up;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/94d393d644da8a94cc1e0a4ba73dc3a4_zps6qn2e7qa.jpg


Biggie eh ? You can guess, he bit me, and by God did it hurt. I brushed it off and remember seeing the sting lying along my forearm still pumping, I then pulled the thing out. Anyway, job to be done, leak checks complete, 700 signed up and off we head for a St Johns night stop, with a refuel at Offutt AFB. Once airborne, I get in to the hammock, looking forward to a few hours sleep after around 14 hours graft. Poor thing I hear you all say (or am I deluding myself ?).

On landing at Offutt, I'm woken by the loadie, who remarks on the size of my "hulk like" left arm. The Nav, always the GEs best mate says I need to see the Flight Surgeon. To say I was alarmed at my sudden ability to stretch the capability of my grow bag would be an understatement. Our Nav took me to the USAF flight surgeon who promptly grounded me. I explained that I was not part of the operating crew (our recovery was via St John, then back to Lyneham. The Flight Eng could put it to bed at St John if necessary). I was grounded, and required to report to the Medic Major the next day, regardless. I now faced a problem that a few GEs may have encountered, being abandoned at a location where the RAF tends not to visit. Gone were the days when Beagle and his Vulcans routinely visited Offutt. On returning to the aircraft our Flt Eng (bless him) had refuelled and done the turn round. Proof positive that I was just a hanger on, and "not required on voyage" ! The Nav informed the Captain of the doctors decision and the "master race" went in to a huddle. I was informed that the Captain would contact ATFOC of the situation before getting airborne for the night stop St Johns. Having done that, I was gobsmacked when, on his return, I was informed that ATFOC had instructed him to night stop Offutt and depart the next day, when the GE had been cleared by the medical staff. Blow me down, somebody saw the problem from my point of view. The night stop was crap. With the Flt Eng putting the aircraft to bed, Smudge of the giant left arm, and pumped full of god knows what by the USAF medics, decided to have a beer n the bar with the lads, before the SSS routine. The lads said I fell off the bar stool like a sack of spuds. There endeth my night stop Offutt ( the crew did later inform me that they looked all over the place and the only bar open that night was in our hotel, which closed when they decided to go looking for other bars) wasn't it always thus ?

We picked up our route the next day, and did a long day flagging Gander for Lyneham. I think only a few hours behind scheduled time. On arrival at the GEs section I noted that I was outbound for the Riyadh Det the next day, where, our good friend Gopher01 welcomed me as he was the GE team leader at the time. I only had one other chance at California, and that was the El Centro Detachment. But I would have enjoyed downtown Travis equally. I seriously dislike wasps these days !!!

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

OMG Smudge ... The size and colour scheme of that thing ... It looks more like a Target Tug :eek:

[Dougie M]

Smudj
Not being an entomologist I would still hazard a guess as that wasp was in fact a hornet. V. Toxic.
You should have stuck with the El Centro Dets. Over the dozen or so that I did there was never one with a sting in its tail........Oh wait a minute!

[smujsmith]

Yep chaps, it's actually called a Giant Asian Hornet, and can grow up to 3 inches long. If you let it get enough venom in you, it can kill. I think that year they were starting to have reports of them in the U.S. I believe there are now reports That it could well come to come to the UK. I do know it was bloody painful.

Smudge :ok:

[Dougie M]

This one didn't have a sting but "Jolene" lived behind the Ops room door in El Centro and they said "She only bites if you disturb her". She remained undisturbed for 3 weeks.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/a7034a87-4112-4bb7-ac2c-a8cc260806ed_zpssqzxqiym.jpg

[smujsmith]

Ahh Doug,

After stumbling around a very dark jungle with you once, on the hunt for a free beer, your propensity to produce monsters does not surprise me. My fellow GE from that trip one T****r T*****n sends his felicitations. I know that departures have been delayed because of snakes in the nose gear bay (Belize as I recall) and large rodents eating the wiring looms. I'm sure that fellow contributors might have experience of such occurrences. Let's be hearing them then gentlemen.

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

So was DDT standard issue ... for the little nasties that is ... not the crew ;)

[smujsmith]

Coff,

What a bag of worms you may have opened here. Let me explain. There was an aerosol device issued for use down route, which was quite a small aerosol, which was operated by depressing the trigger, and departing rapidly. The trigger was locked open once operated by a lock, and it was known, as I'm sure AA62 will confirm as a "one shot". Basically because once it was triggered it couldn't be stopped. It's purpose was to de insectivise ????? The aircraft to meet customs regulations in various locations around the world. I was fortunate enough to find myself in control of a few of these on a family camping trip in Scotland, they worked.

With me so far ? So, I'm on a trip that gives us a rather attractive night stop in Bermuda, at the Grotto Beach, not the previous pink palace we used to use. A high class establishment which offered a bar in a sea cave, an opportunity to carry out most of the Before Flight inspection by binoculars (no honest I didn't) and individual rooms in thatched roofed basha's. Our loady, a most memorable lady C***s U**y, had managed to acquire a one shot for each of us, and, suggested that firing it in our room, before reporting for the first dark and stormy, would ensure that we would not be bothered by bugs overnight. I think we all followed her advice. And we're surprised at the number of thatch occupants that littered the room floors on our return, the surprise came with the screams from Mz U***'s room when the dying mass confronted her. It later transpired that she had been greedy and used 3 one shots for her room.

DDT ? Not sure what was in it Coff, it was very effective. I'm sure AA62 will know what it was. C***s U**y was a lot better looking than he was though. Anyone else remember her ?

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

More story opportunities :ok:

Not for this Thread ... But I had an experience with a 'spray' device in a Chipmunk once ... :eek:

[smujsmith]

Come on Coff, stop dangling carrots. Out with your story of aerosol experiments in the Chippie. We are all old enough to accept deviances and other perversions which might have enhanced your aviating experience. Having never worked out how to steer the bugger on the ground, I'm sure some chemical assistance might have helped.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
the aerosols were one shot and did consist of mainly DDT. It was called disinsection if I recall correctly. We used to carry muti use ones but places like Ozz used to insist on proof that the correct amount (it varied by internal size of the a/c) had been used hence the single dose cans. Upon arrival they were supposed to count the cans and that would be that. But more often than not they would spray us with their own foul mixture. In places like NZ you would then have to paddle through some sheep dip as you got off the a/c.
On 48 at Changi you could sometimes find a Swamp Monitor up the nose or main gear. The SOP was to send for 'Pop' who would remove the creature. No doubt it it had a second life as the star item on the day's curry.

[fergineer]

Quick cut with a Stanley knife and they were very effective many shot bug killers, just had to cut off the lock, simples.

[kilwhang]

My nasty insect story happened in Nairobi, in the early '80s........

We were on a long trip which included 48 hours off in the Kenyan capital. On the day of departure we arrived at the aircraft and started our preparation. The G/E got out the long ladder and proceeded to remove the intake blanks.

A few moments later he came running up to the Flt Deck saying that the No 3 intake was full of 'jaspers'.
It turned out that 'jaspers' is a West Country word for bees and wasps.
I had a look (from a safe distance) and there was, what appeared to be, a very large swarm of bees deep in the intake. We talked to Nairobi Ops and asked for a Pest Control Team but, you've guessed it, there wasn't one.
The Fire Section were unwilling to hose them out (water shortage apparently) so we were left with very few options.

We decided to start the engine and blow them out. This worked perfectly and, apart from the odd 'jasper' flying around looking dazed, the intake was clear. We continued with our checks, started the remaining engines, and taxied out.
However, when we went from Low Speed Ground Idle (LSGI) to Normal Ground Idle (NGI) it was obvious the No 3 was not happy. High TIT and low torque indications which were confirmed by adding a bit of power. We returned to the terminal and shut down.
The G/E dropped the compressor stage bleed valves (I can't remember the stages - was it 6th and 10th?) to inspect the compressor blades. The blades were covered with what looked like golden, rock hard, toffee.
A close inspection of the intake showed faint evidence of a honeycomb. It turned out that it wasn't just a swarm of bees........they had had time to build a substantial comb and the honey was now caked on our compressor blades.

What was needed was a compressor wash and, of course, there was no equipment to be had locally. So, the next day, a Cpl Engine Fitter from 'B' Line arrived on the overnight BA flight from LHR.......complete with an engine intake hopper and 2 large bags of crushed walnuts!
The wash and associated servicing schedules were carried out and we were on our way. Because we were on a 'special task' the Cpl Engine Fitter couldn't come with us, so we told him about the party room in the hotel and wished him luck.
He stayed a couple of days before taking a BA flight back. In that time he met a lovely BA stewardess and, in the fullness of time, they married and had a couple of kids.

As they say........It's an ill swarm that blows nobody any good :)

[TheChitterneFlyer]

I do recall a trip to Belize where myself and the Loady had completed the pre-flight and we were sat on the ramp having a cuppa when we then heard the sound of "clickerty click" brown brogues approaching the aircraft. It surely had to be an Army "hossifer" who had suitably dressed for air travel? He was carrying a shoe box, punched with holes in the side and tied up with string, which suggested that it contained something "alive and well". He asked if he might put it somewhere "safe" until he had checked-in through the passenger terminal. The Loady, D***h H*****d, asked him what was in the box. To which the hofficer replied, "Just a couple of spiders". I'll take care of that, says D***h, just pop the box onto the ground right here. The said hofficer then clickerty clacked across the ramp towards the terminal building. D***h drained his cup, stood up, and then jumped off the ramp and onto the box... jumping up and down onto the box several times for good measure. We're not having those two :mad: crawling around the freight bay coz we don't have any bicycle clips in the pack-up to respond to the "Beasty Loose on the Flight Deck Checklist"! I don't recall the outcome of what the conversation between the said hofficer and the Loady might have been; I was just pleased that it had been dealt with so delicately.


There was another incident in Belize where one of the crew didn't have an en-suite bathroom at the Fort George. Apparently, there was a huge spider in the corridor bathroom and he therefore took a dump into a sock and chucked it out of his bedroom window. Unbeknown to him, in the dark, there were holes in the toes and it was only the next morning where the evidence of swinging the sock around his head, prior to lobbing it out of the window, were visible on the walls of his hotel room!

[Wander00]

kilwhang - that punch line is worthy of Frank Muir or Dennis Norden punch line from one of their shaggy dog stories at the end of a show (You have to be VERY old to remember them)

[TheChitterneFlyer]

On a trip to the "skid strip" at Cape Canaveral to offload some torpedoes for the Navy, we had arrived early and that the Navy vehicles were still en-route from XYZ to offload them from the aeroplane. Because it was only supposed to be a tech-stop to drop off the load, it was decided that the crew would go to the beach for a swim and a bite to eat. However, one of us had to remain at the aeroplane and so, we drew lots to decide who would stay behind. I (ENG) drew the short straw!


We were parked in the middle of a huge circular ramp and, after half an hour or so, I decided to take a stroll to the edge of the ramp for a smoke. Having got half way across the ramp I heard a vehicle (sirens bellowing) approaching behind me. It was the security guard from a small gatehouse at the entry to the ramp area. "Get in", said the security geezer. Whilst then driving back to his gatehouse he explained that alligators were nesting within the ramp-side drainage ditches! Having arrived at the air-conditioned gatehouse; where we both had a smoke and a cup of coffee; he then asked me if I'd like to see "Matilda"... a nesting alligator? Indeed I would. He pulled out his sidearm and said, "Follow me". Beneath the gatehouse was a drain that went beneath the access road and right there, honest to God, were two yellow blinking eyes within the darkness of the pipe! Having then retreated back to his truck to drive me back to the aeroplane, "Matilda" appeared from the pipe. The said beastie was about fifteen feet long. The security guards parting words, as he dropped me off at the aeroplane, were, "Those critters can run faster than you can so don't even think about going off for a stroll again. If you want another smoke, turn on your Anti-Coll lights and I'll come and pick you up"!


During the next half-hour, just as the Navy trucks appeared, three of those critters came out of hiding to see what was going on. That was when the cavalry arrived to keep the critters at bay!


I drew the short straw... it could've been the last one!


Ciao

[CoffmanStarter]

Open season then Chaps ... The topic is 'Alberts Stowaway Critters' ... Along with any hilarious remedial actions ;)

So ... Any 'Snakes on Planes' :ooh:

[Wander00]

Watched a 3ft couleuvre rocket up the outside wall of the house into the eaves the other day. Fortunately non-poisonous, and supposed to eat mice - wish it would get a bigger appetite!

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Once again in Belize... having poked my head into the nosewheel bay to check the brake accumulator pressure, there was a beastie sat atop of the nosewheel and, being initially alarmed at what it might be, I split my head open whilst retreating in haste. The beastie turned out to be only a "stick insect"! Much mirth all around! I had heard of many other horror stories involving snakes, though, I never did see one in or around the gear.


However, from the rooftop of our hotel in Kathmandu (Op Khana Cascade) one morning whilst having a morning smoke and a cuppa prior to pickup, the hotel staff were fishing out a huge boa constrictor from the swimming pool!


Oh, and on another occasion... on Ambergris Key, when walking along the pier after a fishing trip, the hotel gopher picked up a sea snake with his toes and lobbed it into the air; which ended-up hitting one of our guys on his bare chest. Thankfully, it didn't get the opportunity to take a bite and it fell back into the water. The Nav prodded it with a long stick and it got very pissed-off as it took a bite at the stick. From then onwards I never did take a swim off the jetty again. That was on a one week stopover when there was civil unrest within Belize City and the skipper declared that it was in our best interest to move out of The Fort George Hotel. We (Aunty Betty) rented four light aircraft to take us across to Ambergris Key. Having loaded up our puddle jumper with luggage and beer it then tipped onto its tail! The local pilot said it would be OK when he got aboard to balance it up; which it did. Our take-off run took forever to get airborne and the approach to the grass strip on Ambergris was... interesting! Mind you, we did have Pete F***r on board!

[smujsmith]

Kilwhang #3014,

That must have smelled like a paraffin cooked toffee apple on shut down. Amazing that the little buggers can be so active in only a couple of days. I assume, as you suggest that the GE removed the intake blanks, that the little devils entered the engine via the jet pipe. In my day as a GE, some while after your experience, we were advised that if staying on the ground for more than the usual night stop, it was advisable to fit tailpipe and NACA duct blanks too. Perhaps as a result of your experience.

Smudge :ok:

[kilwhang]

Smuj,

As you surmised, back in the day, the intake blanks weren't fitted as often as they should have been. They weren't in the best condition either.
In our case, the 'jaspers' entered via a poorly fitting (not poorly fitted) intake blank.

Years later, while on a trip to Johannesburg, I got talking to a local apiarist. He assured me that the average swarm of African bees can construct a large comb in about 12 hours.

When we did the compressor wash in Nairobi, we first briefed ATC and asked permission. The a/c was parked facing away from, and quite close to, the Tower. When the crushed walnuts dropped from the hopper and travelled through the engine, cleaning the compressor blades, a rather large dark cloud emanated from the exhaust.
ATC came on the radio saying 'ASCOT XXXXX, what is it that you are doing? Everything is black here.'

We, of course, apologised. :)

You may, also, remember the incident a few years later where an engine was started with a blank still in the intake.
IIRC the a/c had come from the hangar and the blank was lying flat in the intake and, therefore, couldn't be seen from the ground.
The 'powers-that-be' tried to finger the crew - in particular the Air Eng - but their accusation fell apart when it was discovered that there were four blanks in their correct stowage in the cargo compartment and that the offending blank was, in fact, an extra one.
The external walk-round check was amended to reflect the fact that inspection of the intakes is restricted from the ground.

Another fine example of Sod's Law.

[Dougie M]

If you ever manned a night drop zone in the borderlands of southern California it's very dark. The only light is the impact point in the desert. Lots and lots of arachnids come to see what's going on. I sat on the roof of a Humvee with lots of insect repellent. I was told that they were mostly docile.
Rumour has it that when Prince Harry's det returned to Wattisham, all the unaccompanied baggage was left in the mess where the cosy temp woke up all the black widow shpiders hiding in the kit. Nice


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/9ecebcac-ea91-4178-8c61-83632dc489b1_zpszeympyvy.jpg

[smujsmith]

Kilwhang,

Nicely remembered on the blanks. I suspect the old Aluminium, red painted jobbies that were prevelant when I returned to Albert at Lyneham. By the time I was leaving circa 1997 the "front bungs" we're canvas covered pillows, of great luxury, I suspect likely to cause less compressor damage should they be left in on start. Certainly more comfortable as a pillow in the hammock :rolleyes:

Doug,

Thank goodness I was only a lowly GE. I think that that spider might have seen me run back across the pond, without resorting to Albert Airways.

Sunday night question.

Anyone remember the "crew member" on the roof trick. ISTR used on Op Banner trips, due to their short duration ? I bet someone has done it or been aboard when it was done. If not, I'm happy to relate the version given to me by a very experienced loadmaster some years back.

Smudge :ok:

[kilwhang]

Doug,

You seem to have a penchant for nasty things in dark corners - it must be as a result of spending all those years in the nether regions of the Flt Deck. :)

Smudge,

I think the 'crew member on the roof' trick was discussed earlier when we were appreciating Pete Tyas.

[Brian W May]

I think the 'crew member on the roof' trick was discussed earlier when we were appreciating Pete Tyas.

Nasty man . . . especially if you wanted your Pilots Notes shuffled or your flying gloves truncated.

RIP Pete . . . you did make me laugh so many times.

[Don Coyote]

Anyone remember the "crew member" on the roof trick

I remember shutting the hatch behind a certain M--K G----Y when he went to overwing check the fuel. Whilst laughing about it on the flightdeck expecting him knocking to get back in we were surprised to see him walking up the steps; he had managed to swing down on the prop!

[smujsmith]

Don,

You'll be pleased to know that M**k G is still going, and has even survived a hip operation. I did the same GE course as him, and we all thought he would become the "new" M**k L***y. I've done a couple of prop descents, as pulling the hatch release on the outside risked damaging the hatch, and possible delay, a serious no for AGE's :eek: the Loadie/Crewman on the roof was certainly a good spoof, and done correctly, the squaddie witnesses seemed to gain respect for the "blue jobs". I think my first experience was on a Banner A with a Loady called P**e S***t, why is it always the Loady, and why are so many called P**e ?

S****e :ok:

[Don Coyote]

smuj,

Pass him my regards if you see him. I seem to recall that you and I had a number of drunken night stops too! All good fun :ok:

[smujsmith]

Don,

I will be glad to pass that on. But Drunken nights with moi ????? I rarely strayed from sarsaparilla ;):rolleyes: Ask Doug M. Could you have also contributed to my own "prop descents" ? Fess up young fella !!!

Smudge :ok:

[Don Coyote]

Identity has been unknown for 16 years would hate to change that now!:) Private message sent.

[smujsmith]

Don, sorry I wasn't asking you to "come out", merely if you ever did the same to me as M**k G. Not that I'd mind, in those days it always offered a reason for some "afters". Your anonymity is safe with me.

Now gentlemen, I left Colerne, and Albert in 1973 to ply my trade with Kilwhang, only to return in 1985 at Lyneham (Global hub of the RAF C130K). In 12 years the wings that I had spent a year lovingly blending, polishing and retreating were thrown away, and new wings fitted. The aircraft also underwent major avionics modification and obviously the extra fuel plumbing. I wonder if those who remained engaged with the aircraft through my "missing years", might like to comment on the upgrades to the K, as opposed to the purchase of the H model :eek: and specialist MC130s for SF duties.

[Don Coyote]

Smuj, no problem; only did it the once to MG, he mentioned how he nearly missed the prop when he jumped so figured it was safer for GE's not to do it again! Went back to trying to do you in with alcohol instead!

[smujsmith]

Don, nice try on me, obviously failed. I still haunt the threads ;). Typical of MG, he believed he could fly in those days, as did we all. It was far simpler to clamber along the engine, grasp the prop and glide safely to the short drop to the ground.

Smudge :ok:

[fergineer]

Give MG my regards too Smuj

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

The old place has changed a little.....

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76196935/above-1.jpg


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogp6u6009c00uur/above-1.jpg?dl=0
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76196935/solar-1.jpg



https://www.dropbox.com/s/i2n379ra5egqmy2/solar-1.jpg?dl=0

[November4]

Sea of solar panels!

Hasn't it ever changed - guess that's progress

[smujsmith]

Fergie, No probs mate :ok:

On the top Bunk. What a bloody mess. Although I have the impression that all these "panels" have only a tenuous grip on "our" terra firma.

Smudge :ok:

[smujsmith]

Now chaps, having recently been on the receiving end of a suggestion of "rain windows" or some such, I have recently found this ;

Special Forces C-130 Hercules - RAF Special Forces Flights (http://www.eliteukforces.info/air-support/47-Squadron/c130k-hercules.php)

As I don't recognise most of the "kit" that's mentioned here, I can only assume that these MODS were put in post my departure circa 97. No wonder the loadies work load went up though, the front end must have been working flat out to understand all that electronic input.

Smudge :ok:

[fergineer]

Let them call whatever they like Smuj if that stuff is on the www who can say anything about what we say here

[Brian W May]

[Let them call whatever they like Smuj if that stuff is on the www who can say anything about what we say here]

Absolutely mate - hope all is well in En Zed

[smujsmith]

Gentlemen both, I'm cool with it all :ok:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/a5f7e8390496d40b97d3d9ef90f94f98_zps3579b5bd.jpg

Recognise any of these reprobates ? Golden Sands, Penang, working hard to help a tornado detachment to get home. It's photographs like this that always make me remember what great times we had as GEs, and, how lucky we were when Albert was working well, and only threw a few small snags at you on some lengthy routes.

This trip was memorable for our crew delays in Bahrain, and the subsequent arrival of Sheikh Yawad (Boris) at Akronelli. Which I know I've already recorded. Not every route ran to plan, but surprisingly, many did from my records. Surprising for an aircraft that had passed its planned life expectancy I believe, Albert was certainly usually "on time, on target" !

Smudge :ok:

[fergineer]

Dunno which of the three was the most trouble!!!!

[November4]

Recognise the 2 on either side but not the one in the middle... :p

[Brian W May]

. . . presumably celebrating their having changed a Valve Housing with their feet ?

[ksimboy]

My head started hurting when I saw your pic Smuj, many happy nights with all 3 in the photo :oh:

[Dougie M]

There is often mischief afoot when you have more than one G.E. on a det. On one particular occasion it caused more than headaches. P*****s and his oppo went across the border into Mexico and bought up a stash of certain purple lozenges which were later dropped surreptitiously into the crew's long island iced teas. The effect was quite enervating. The chicken curry which had about 50k scoville units in it rather spoiled the first results.

[smujsmith]

Aahh Doug,

The delights of the dual GE trip. The knowledge that when the nasty snag jumped up and bit you, you could share the pain:rolleyes: of course, it gave the GE time to work out how much "wind up" the crew would take. And, of course, allowed a second opinion on wind ups etc, before you committed to "biting". I'm sure you could expand on the "Mexican" incident, without broaching posting rules, although, you might wish to demure as a former victim. Did he really ?

ksimboy, I'm sure you enjoyed the headaches, just as I did!


Smudge :ok:

[Jackw106]

AC130
watch?v=-X4SODtiHQI&feature=youtu.be&em

[smujsmith]

Jackw,

Looks like it's on the way;

New AC-130J completes first test flight > U.S. Air Force > Article Display (http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/473295/new-ac-130j-completes-first-test-flight.aspx)

Not sure if they are still at Hurlbert, it's been a long time since I was there, but 8th SOS were in residence there for many years. Just down the road from Eglin Maybe they will be the first operator.

Hope that helps.

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

You never know the RAF may resurrect the 'Suppressive Fire Role' as trialled on the 'K'.

[dragartist]

Following the discussion a few weeks ago about tubes, one of my farce book friends put up a JADTEU promo video. appears to date back to 2012. Some real interesting stuff. including Para, MSPs, boats, free drop and leaflets.


Most of it is K with a smattering of J and a few clips for the chopper mates


hope the link works for some of you.


failing that I am told google is your friend


https://www.facebook.com/JADTEU

[Dougie M]

When we first started going to Red Flag the Aggressor Squadrons treated us as a part of the U.S. C130 "Turkey Shoot" which was annoying. this was before we acquired a couple of ex QWIs from the fast jet fleet. Suggestions came in for defensive equipment and the first was to use the ground suppression role and mount a couple of Gimpies in the para doors. The mounting bracket only allowed a small "letter box" to fire through (to save the external tanks, tailplane, etc. from being shot off by over enthusiastic "waist gunners" i.e. 47AD despatchers. The powers wouldn't let us take the GPMGs on detachment anyway.
Salvation came after the Falklands conflict when the Spams asked how we fired the new big nose cannon on the roof. We put a few cooling holes on the probe and also explained that the Orange Crop pods were AIM 9 Ls
Red Air kept a good distance for a while after that.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/a0734ec0-d770-4d76-a00f-0460aa7a4a0c_zps5pwmti96.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Dougie ... Brilliant ! :D:D:D:D

[Wander00]

Walk softly and carry (what looks like) a big stick. fantastic

[smujsmith]

Superb Doug,

And typical of the crews I had the honour to work with down route. Always adaptable and forward thinking. Great shot, and yet more info, adding again to the record of Albert in RAF service.

Smudge :ok:

[kilwhang]

A couple of Red Flag stories.....................

As Dougie M says, the USAF C-130s were regarded by the Aggressors as a turkey shoot. They flew, straight and level, at about 3,000'. In fairness to them, they were flying a lot of old aircraft with fatigue problems. The 130s were supposed to have fighter cover but the 'Cream of American Youth' (CAY) decided to go off and have fun elsewhere.

We were flying 'a lot lower' and definitely not straight and level and, also, meant to have fighter cover.The Aggressors were waiting for us as soon as we entered the Range and gave us a hard time.
After a couple of days of this, our intrepid Captain went off to remonstrate with the CAYs and came back with a couple of Air National Guard guys in tow. These guys flew B737s during the week and Corsairs at the weekend. On entering our office, they noticed the barrel of Watneys c/w gas bottle and pump. (We had brought 'sufficient' with us to cover the det.)

We made a deal with them.......they look after us and we keep them refreshed during the debrief. For the rest of the week we were never without our Guardian Angels.
The Corsair guys all wore fake stick-on name tags - it was surreal to be de-briefed by 'Joda - Jedi Master' :)


A couple of years later we were back at Nellis. In our hotel we met a bunch of guys who were in LV for the weekend. They had come from SFO and, during the conversation, they mentioned that they worked at the SFO ATCC. It turned out these were the guys we talked to as we climbed to leave the Range. The standard route was over the Grand Canyon at 14,000 before peeling off into Nellis.
We mentioned that the view was great and it would be terrific if we could get a better look at the Canyon.
They told us that there was a 'Canyon Recovery' which, when approved, allowed flight along the Canyon - no lower than 1000' above the rim. After asking us for our call-sign (Limey XX) they told us that they would make sure we would be approved if we made the request.

So, the next time we flew, on leaving the Range we called SFO Centre and requested a Canyon Recovery. We were cleared to descend and 'carry out the Standard Canyon Recovery'. With a big grins on our faces, we descended, slowed down, opened the ramp and door and cruised along the Canyon.
We had a couple of USAF observers on board and they were very impressed. The word got round very quickly and for the next couple of trips we had, at least, two Generals with us........all with their cameras.

This was more than 30 years ago and, since, there have been quite a few light a/c accidents in the Canyon area. The rules have now changed and flying over the Canyon is strictly controlled.

[ExAscoteer]

I think I was on the last ever RAF Albert Canyon Recovery to Nellis.

A* H**l was the Captain.

Flying the Canyon was awesome, the treatment I received at Nellis less so.

If you remember, the det was at the bottom of the taxyway on the right. We were actually inbound to Mather AFB (Sacremento) to support the Victor Tanker det but had lobbed in to Nellis with some stuff for the Tornados.

Having left Albert parked up, upon entering the crew room I realised I'd left some stuff on the flight deck so I returned to the aircraft in the most direct manner (ie a straight line).

Those of you who have been to Nellis will remember that the ramp was separated from the adjacent roadway by a painted red line. Said red line had gaps in it every few hundred yards representing access points to the ramp.

A much younger ExAscoteer knew nothing about this until becoming surrounded by USAF Police, pointing M16s and screaming "You crossed the line, you crossed the line!"

Telling them they were a bunch of feckin' eejits didn't actually go down too well...

[smujsmith]

Kilwhang, Exascoteer,

What a subject you both raise. I remember going to Nellis, during Red Flag, to deliver important spares for the Albert Det. Our Captain had some "previous" form and had the code words necessary to allow us a Canyon arrival. Loady in the LH para door and myself in the RH door both enjoyed a truly, once in a lifetime experience. The Loady was M**k G****n bless him, always a great bloke to work with.

The Red Line. As we started to depart the next day I realised that we had no fire extinguisher on our parking space. Being fully aware of the implications of "crossing" the line, my feet remained on my side of it as I leaned over to borrow the lime green jobby on the adjacent bay. As you say Exascoteer, having an opinion of the mental capacity of the gun toting cousins, in their own land, doesn't help. Still, all worth it for the scenic arrival the day before. It was nice to be informed by G***o on departure that the crew were all behind me, they would have buggered off and left me behind had I been arrested. Happy days.

Smudge :ok:

[1066]

Coffman, permission to come aboard?
Albert driver 1978/90, LXX and 242.
XV193 22 years ago today - Scottac
To absent friends. RIP all,
1066 aka HTC

[gopher01]

Back in the days of Buccs at Nellis we were on a support resupply for Wet Rag and Captain says to crew how about we cancel flight plan and go VFR to Nellis ,this followed by round of applause all round. No sooner done than chat carried out with ATC somewhere to get clearance for flight down the canyon and I mean down the canyon, very scenic and impressive, even more so for the light aircraft coming the other way some fair height below us as this big green machine comes round the corner going the other way! In the end we popped out of the canyon and legged it to Nellis.


Another Red Flag linked occasion was when I was the RAF Det at Scott AFB to cover any Red Flag resupply that couldn't make Gander direct and would drop in for a splash and a dash as Formula I would put it. On entering base Ops for the first time I was having a chat as you do and this lady came up to me and asked me if I knew Chalky White, a G/E who was one of the originals and was in fact still around when I started as a G/E as he was a very good friend of hers! If you knew Chalky a less likely bloke to have " good friends " down route you would think but the same thing happened to me twice more when I was there.

[ExAscoteer]

22 years, crikey! I was on the DISTANT FRONTIER slip when it happened.

RIP guys.

[CoffmanStarter]

1066 ... Welcome :ok:

We have a fine group of members contributing to this thread ... I'm sure you will know many of the Characters ... please feel free to join in and share your stories.

If you have some pics you might like to share ... I'll be only too pleased to help ... Just give me a shout on here.

Best ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

So Gentlemen ... Do we have any interesting Canyon pics out there ... Dougie ?

[smujsmith]

On the day the accident happened I was arriving with a fellow GE and a team of Linies to see the aircraft through Edmonton as I recall. Could that have been DISTANT THUNDER ExAscoteer ? Whatever, some very fine people lost their lives that day, many people we have shared routes and beers with. I'll be raising one to all of them tonight. RIP All.

Smudge

[ExAscoteer]

Indeed it was Smudge, DISTANT FRONTIER. It was the recovery of Tornados from Eilson AFB in Alaska.

I was running the Slip Pattern in Goose Bay.

[smujsmith]

ExAscoteer,

Then you will certainly remember M*** G***** (previously mentioned) and the other GE who were the two GEs at Goose for the duration, as I recall. Not sure if you recovered on the sweeper aircraft with the rest of the deployed Lynehamites, but we had a few problems with the aircraft on its return from Eilson. With both a mainwheel change, and a rear GITZ replacement. I think the lads did very well with around a six hour delay in our return to Lyneham overall. It was a good deployment, overshadowed by the sad news we received on arrival at Edmonton.

Smudge :ok:

[1066]

Sorry to revisit posts a long time back. I've just got past page 100 before I joined in. Many smiles along the way. Thank you all.
There was a question re what was the "string" used for the snatch?
Glider tow rope is what I was told. I can claim to be the first "gash squadron pilot" to have carried out a snatch. On 9 June 1982 we were on the east strip at Deptford Down doing our day strip qual prior to fighter affil and AAR for deployment to ASI. JATE were on the west strip doing the snatch trials. They were concerned that they had become so used to flying the snatch that they were not sure how difficult it would be for "gash sqn pilots". Their exact words! When they came across to ask for one I was the one available. I hesitate to say selected or chosen. If you were used to free drop it wasn't too difficult as long as the pitch inputs were kept to a minimum and small as it was easy to set up an oscillation in the cable and the grappling hook would fly up and over the loop to be hooked.
The nylon ropes were only used for a limited number of snatches, three I think and I was given mine as a thanks for my contribution. It has proved to be a great tow rope for the car.
HTC

[Dougie M]

Hastings
IIRC the rope used for the surface to air mail recovery trial was that used by the target tugs for their banners. As you say they were lifed for 3 uses then discarded. My car tow rope is of such material.

[ksimboy]

Dougie,
I'm shocked to hear of the misuse of service equipment (u/s of course). Next you will be saying your washing line is a transfer release cable from a double MSP !!!;)

[smujsmith]

Ksimboy,

Don't be silly, if Doug owned a washing line it would be the property of his "better half":=

Smudge:ok:

[Dougie M]

40ft of HF aerial with bottle screws at each end. She can pick up GWR on a good washing day, so I'm told

[smujsmith]

See Ksimboy, I hate to say I told you :D:D::rolleyes:

Smudge :ok:

[dragartist]

I found this in my garage this evening
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/troc%20cable%20resized_zpsf7rbv33k.jpg


Any good to you Dougie or KSim or do you already have one.


It was left over from a fault report (760) investigation following a handful of failures. Metric cable with English size ferules 6mm is not quite a 1/4"


note the application of black gaffer tape. Universal for all things airdrop.


Sorry I don't have a George Rogers satchel for it.


I always made do with a bit of 303 cord for a washing line on detachments.


CADS suspension bridles made better tow ropes. unpick the stitching and make 4 (3 for your rigger mates) the snap hooks on the end fit nicely over the loops on most modern cars.


Now then guys; can we call an amnesty and have you all return the heavy canvas parachute recovery bags to stores


Snatch was before my time but XV275 may have info from his Beverley days. I believe the concept was first used in reverse for pulling ULLA loads out rather than picking stuff up.

[Brian W May]

Gaffer tape . . . . GAFFER TAPE?

That sir is BODGE TAPE!!! and accompanied everything in the boot of anyones' car that had ANYTHING to do with airdrop in any of its guises (apart from SEACs probably).

I love this thread . . . I've still got some of the 400 lb thin nylon line in my shed - after SOoo many years - and a Wilkie knife . . . and the fishing kit . . . and the . . . (oops, time for my pills)

[ancientaviator62]

dragartist,
so the failures were due to the Imperial/Metric interface ! I believe the USA lost a satellite due to such a combination. I do not recall any transfer release cable failures as such but in the early reefed main days they could whip and interfere with the forward load extraction. Had tie down failures (stretching and breaking) with the 38 cwt break cables !
I am sure the para bags are far more use in the garden than mouldering in some store.

[CoffmanStarter]

Crikey Drag old chap ... The rabbits around your neck of the woods must be the size of elephants :}

[ksimboy]

Drag,thanks for the offer but my trc is still doing sterling service, having successfully transferred the forward platform and supported washing since 19995 lol. Fantastic workmanship. :D

[Trumpet_trousers]

I'm more of a tailgate recovery lanyard man myself, complete with 914(?) shackles and pins :ok:

[dragartist]

Ah TT,
C size is the ones used on the anchor cable.
When SBAC stopped sponsoring the AGS standards that threw us into a spin. There was two post pallets full at South Cerney (almost two tons of them) that went in the skip
I never saw one but the latest lanyard recovery lanyards were made from Kevlar. IIRC three different lengths in three colours, for long and short aircraft and where following loads. they were brought into service under a PURIBAD Mod on the J when we started doing double load split sticks. The Load lowering ropes from HAPES were being misused with no maintenance policy as they became more or less personal issue and never had a bay inspection.


I hope things are getting a little easier down your way TT.


BR
Drag

[Trumpet_trousers]

Thanks for the thoughts

[smujsmith]

I started my time on Albert in 1991. I always remember the aircraft for the external tanks, which gave the aircraft a fuel load of 62,900 lbs of fuel. Anyone have any idea where the requirement for the externals came from as many Air forces in the late 60s were happy with a "less well endowed" Albert. Particularly after the introduction of IFR after Op Corporate, when extended route legs could be accommodated by tanking, and less profile drag. Does anyone have any ideas as to why we went for the external tank fit, and secondly, did anyone ever fly a K sans externals ?

Smudge:ok:

[1066]

Still catching up! Page 129
I may have got it wrong but I had the impression from the posts re the Vulcan tanker that the Vulcan was not on the scene as early as some indicated.
AAR training, 6 sorties in 4 days 18-21June 82 were always Victors flown by either OC Marham or the USAF exchange officer who was not allowed to go south to ASI. Everyone else on the Victors was at ASI. I was involved in the Airbridge until early 84 and never saw a Vulcan. Can't remember when the Herc tanker took over. I should have recorded what the tanker was and not just the number of contacts. Must have been late 82/early83. AA62 help please!

Slight thread drift. Re different aircraft having different handling characteristics.
Hastings CMk1a TG568, ex Colerne had been used for a glider snatch trial back in the dark ages. Unfortunately on one attempt the glider was still picketed! 568 must have been stretched and always needed more ballast than any of the other Mk1 Hastings to fly, especially to flare, like any of the others! And they were all heavy on the elevators at low speed.
HTC

[WIDN62]

Smudge,

The K came with the external fuel tanks. We took them off some aircraft (which were going to be used mainly for local training) around 1981 because there was a spending moratorium and the idea was to save fuel by saving the extra drag and weight of the tanks. Then came the Falklands and they were all put back on.

[ancientaviator62]

One of the Staion Commanders at Lyneham had the bright idea to remove the externals from some a/c. When Group heard of this thet went ballistic and the tanks were swiftly replaced. TT and drag they were indeed 914C (round) shackles something we learned the hard way when we first got the Herc. The checklist only specified '914 ' so ne day a one ton auto drop got airborne with the load rigged with 914G shackles (more oval shaped). Come green on and as the load trundled aft these shackles twisted on the anchor cable and jammed. We learned about the difference from that !

[kilwhang]

1066,

I was an instructor at STS during the first few months of AAR Training. According to my logbook we used Vulcan Tankers, mainly, in July '82.

I seem to remember that the Victors became overstretched and the Vulcan was pressed into service. It was an impressive shape to fly behind.

As far as I know, it was only used in training. I don't think any Hercs used the Vulcan 'down South'.

[smujsmith]

On the subject of external tanks I have to relate a story from my "down route" experiences, which might raise a chuckle or two. I might say it's an honour to follow a distinguished former Flt Eng on the posting roster.

An Engineer Told me .......

In the words of the famous song, without his death being involved, I remember a route that with a very well behaved Albert, allowed me plenty of time to join the operators at the party room for a beer or three. The Flt Eng on the trip was an affable chap, and enjoyed the opportunity to "educate" me (a mere ground crew representative) in the skills and knowledge he had of aerodynamics, airframe design and performance issues. So, on one such evening our conversation (nay, lecture) got round to external tanks on Albert. I have always viewed the external tank as a tube, given some aerodynamic profile it would always at best, only generate profile and skin friction drag, and be a net detraction from the performance of the aircraft. But no, says my Eng, in full thrust after several wind down beers, the C130K external tanks are designed, at cruise speed, to generate the equivilant lift of the fuel they contain :hmm: which means that the tanks empty generate oodles of extra lift and allow the aircraft to happily lift extra cargo. Well, how could I, a mere GE (of basic Airframe trade) having done only enough to know half rho V squared S, argue with such a proposition. I decided to opt for a second "wind down beer" and wish the Eng a swift recovery from his delusional state. Now, anyone have experience of lifting extra weight due to having the externals fitted and empty ?

Smudge :ok:

[kilwhang]

Smudge,

The cheque's in the post!

And you are correct - in those days I was a 'firmer' F/E. :)

[kilwhang]

Thinking about lift and the external tanks.

In flight, and with a zero Angle of Attack, the external tanks should have no effect on lift but, if you have any AoA at all, there would be some lift generated. Whether it would be significant is beyond my mental arithmetic.

I'm sure there are others, more qualified, who can explain further.

Mr Bernoulli isn't on Twitter........

[smujsmith]

Kilwhang,

Apologies for the spelling error, duly amended. I won't cash the cheque !! AOA, I rather suspect, and always understood, that Albert in the cruise flew with a 3 degree AOA. That being the case, the external tank would offer a larger profile to the RAF (Relative Air Flow) and therefore negate any lift benefits. I know, I'm just an old rigger. Perhaps the Eng from my route lecture might like to put me right.

Smudge:ok:

[Dougie M]

When the Red Arrows lived at Kemble, the trips they went on with Albert support always ended there to offload all their Eng support equipment before the 10 minute hop back to Lyneham for the wind down pop in the Lyneham Lanes Bowling Alley.
We had been on a much remembered trip to St Yan in France, Pisa Italy, Malta, Naples, and Germany before returning to RAF Sleepy Hollow in Glos.
Imagine our surprise to find a Customs Rummage Crew waiting on the pan. The ensuing mayhem in the freight bay was pandemonium.
Once the sparrows groundcrew had disembarked we did a FOD plod to be helpful and found contraband in the strangest places.
The unsmiling Customs blokes then swept the aircraft for more with the final straw directed at me. "You! where is the switch to jettison the drop tanks?"
Me, "If you have a tool kit you can unbolt them but there is no "Jettison switch. They are External Tanks not Drop Tanks"
Him, "Don't you obstruct an officer of Her Majesty's Customs and Excise"
Me, "Speak to the Ground Eng and he will draw off a sample from the tanks for your delectation"
Him, "I will impound this aircraft and the crew if you don't comply with my order"
Me. Before you do that please talk to customs at Lyneham or you might appear more of a ladies front bottom than you do already"
Short chat with Lyneham customs
"You are free to go"
Us "Thank you Sir"
We still had to go through customs again at Lyneham half an hour later.
They are all bas****s really.




http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/4d6de15b-545f-4148-94ba-5a6596debcad_zpsk3cj4jh2.jpg

[smujsmith]

Classic Doug :D:D:D. I always thought that HM Customs were "very nice people" :rolleyes: nice photograph, but is it a K ? And is that the Reds (only 7) ?

Smudge:ok:

[Brian W May]

We got rummaged at Honington or somesuch, returning from an APC. I was even asked what was in the toothpaste tube in my washbag.

He missed the irony so I did the hilariously witty verbal riposte thing and said 'toothpaste actually' (as you do). He took a sample (as opposed to being one).

You couldn't even see the surgery scars and their Sense of Humour Removals were a complete success.

Yep, lots of fun - The Revenue Men

[rotaryeng]

Smudge, are you aware of the 214 Facebook page recently started and already containing a number of your colleagues from the Colerne days post Mar 71?

[smujsmith]

Rotaryengine, thanks for that, I will put face book on my iPad and have a look sometime.

Smudge:ok:

[Dougie M]

Smuj. Ref your#3092. Yup and Yup. Dougie


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/e8721526-4bed-4667-8523-9609e6b9ef16_zpsblts5y9h.jpg

[smujsmith]

Doug, that is a far better shot. I don't remember the black part of the leading edge on 212, outboard of No 4, nor what looks like an enlarged fuel dump tube. But your posts are as always superb, thanks for sorting my addled brain out. Bottoms up !!!!!

Smudge :ok:

[ksimboy]

Weren't the black patches added to help see ice on the leading edges on the grey paint jobs? Or am I just talking bolleaux as always?

[smujsmith]

Ksimboy,

Must have been after my days as a GE, the patches, not your talking Bolleaux :D

Smudge :ok:

I can't see the yellow spot on the No1 prop in the original picture, I assume hidden by the prop cone. Though the second shot shows no yellow spot on No2 either. Blimey, the GEs must have been totally confused. I always trust Doug though. How nice that some banter surfaces.

[ksimboy]

I always trusted Dougie too, led me to some very interesting places ,and some wonderful bollockings!

[smujsmith]

Heh heh, on a trip to Oz I well remember finding myself in some very dark jungle, on the promise of a free beer. Our Nav on the trip highly recommended it. That walk showed me some of the most scary reptiles and insects I ever saw in my life. Oh yes Ksimboy, I always trust Doug :ouch:

Smudge:ok:

[Don Coyote]

Ksimboy,

I recall it was for seeing ice on the gray paint scheme too.

[smujsmith]

Don,

Any idea what era that was introduced ? I became an ex GE in December 94, no doubt news gratefully received by many of the operating crews. I have no memory of the black "ice indicator" during my time as a GE. My last trip with XV212 was on 26 Oct 94, a Banner A, and the black indicator was not there, in fact I'm pretty sure that 212 was finished in what some described as "lizard" but others as "wraparound". I suspect that the grey paint scheme, and ice indicators were nearer to 2000, and after I had left the mob, let alone GEing. Nice to see someone thought about the consequences of changing the paint scheme though.

Smudge :ok:

[Dougie M]

Smudge alludes to being led astray sometimes in the jungles of Borneo so it behoves me to set the record straight.
Some years ago we were tasked to take a detachment of Royal Marines out on an exped to climb Mt Kinabaloo. Then while we out there collect the Ex Fincastle freight from Adelaide. Cool.
The outbound went well apart from the Royals tying one on in Colombo. The subsequent skinny dipping in the hotel pool just outside the lounge brought protests from the management. "Tell them to desist" they said. 30 pissed, naked Marines....not a chance. Several ladies in the lounge weren't at all upset by the scene.
But to the point. On arrival in Brunei we were reminded of the abstemious muslim culture and the consequent lack of post flight pop.
An ex ascoteer employed in the Royal Brunei Airlines locally suggested an alternative post flight exercise......A jungle run with the Hash House Harriers and gave a knowing wink.
OK I'll tell the boys and we'll give it a go I said. Led by the said M*** F** we plunged into the almost impenetrable jungle, hopelessly overdressed and sweating like the wild pigs we could hear in the enveloping green.
Cue lots of Lenny Henry wildlife noises interspersed with cursing sweating herc crew muttering dire threats against the person who got them into this steaming, leech infested, mossie swarm.
After a spell of chasing shredded paper through the swamp it started to get dark. Even I was becoming vexed. Then all at once we blundered out into a clearing surrounded by small trucks. The doors opened at the back by smiling Chinese people to reveal dustbins full of bottles of beer in ice. The solemn ceremonial of the harriers followed with one of the "guides" seriously chastised for losing his group in the jungle. (The Gurkhas found them unharmed)
Much later as we were being taken to F**y's house for a curry he explained that because there is no alcohol in Brunei you cannot be caught for drunk driving, you are merely indisposed. Well we were as indisposed as a newt by that time, but I have never worked so had to get a beer in my life.
Another mental scar for Smuj


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/44fad720-bb99-4d00-929f-e6be9e88518c_zps1phx5v8u.jpg

[smujsmith]

Ahh Doug,

I remember it as if it were yesterday, as does my oppo Tucker T. Happy days though, thanks for the memory.

Smudge:ok:

[DCThumb]

As I recall, the black ice patches were instigated by H***** E****** during his time as Station Flight Safety Officer for just that, so you could see ice build up on the new 'John Major Grey' colour scheme.

[1066]

Doug,
Another fine tale!
1066 here still catching up. Story of my life. I'm up to Pg133, March this year so not too far to go. Not all you read in Air Clues is 100% true! Post 2633
When it came to the air test after the outer wing of 206 had been replaced there was much politicking way above my pay scale.
The South Atlantic was still regarded as an "operational command" and MOD PE, I think it was that then, had no direct authority down there.
However, there was a release to service for the normal Hercs with no MAROC and also one for 206 as the only one with MAROC but on both wingtips. There was no release to service for any Herc with only one MAROC pod.
For the reason above MODPE could not be tasked with going south to do the air test. Lyneham would have to do it! No idea whose decision that was.
I was on HCS and was chosen not for any air test expertise but no one knew if AAR would be required for the recovery to LYE. I was one of two QFIs on HCS who had AAR experience. In fact AAR was not required.
When I was given the air test schedule it was clear that parts of it were nothing like a normal post servicing air test. Eg timed rolls from 30 aob one way to 30 aob the other side, rudder fixed. All good TP stuff but took some concentration when you are more used to using rudder when applying bank.
Something I have never regretted was talking to the TP at Marshalls. We spoke on the phone and he invited me over to Cambridge for a chat. Student crew, "today we are going to Cambridge for a couple of NDBs and a full stop".
He looked through the schedule, gave advice on adjusting the order so that time was not wasted reconfiguring unnecessarily and then the best bit of advice. Watch that one! Timed roll as above at V2 with an outboard at flight idle. Rolling towards the dead engine and pod was somewhat quicker than the other way. Oh and work down to it. Don't start at V2!
We would have to signal the results back to UK and on the basis of the results a limited release would be issued for 2 or 3 sectors.
Off to Brize with chosen crew, BA747 to MPA. The unit TP from 1312 bit may have come from the fact that we did not stay at MPA but just like old times it was back to Stanley.
3 Aug 85 air test part 1 was cut short by No 3 losing oil and shut down.
I don't think it was an engine change, more likely a seal or union because
4 Aug 85 air test part 2 completed the schedule and yes TP at Marshalls was spot on! Send off results and wait for Authorisation signal.
6 Aug 85 set off for ASI and climbing out find that we had an issue with the starboard ext tank pumps. Both switched on, both ran but switch one off and both stop! Back to MPA to get sorted. Ask jumbo to delay departure with repair crew going home until we confirmed all was well. Arrive ASI jumbo crew fast asleep! Just over 5 years later I was flying BA747s. Back at LYE on 8 Aug via a n/s DKR. Never did find out who was DWC to take 206 onto CAM.
Sad to see the photo of the demise of 206. We had 206 & 178 on Red Flag in Oct 88, when 206 had not long since become pink. It was good but the shadow on the desert floor was always the give away.
Dougie and ksimboy are quite right re the pilot of 206. In any other circumstances it would have been an AFC or Queens Commendation for Valuable Service in the Air.

[CoffmanStarter]

Fascinating ... Thanks for sharing 1066 :ok:

[kilwhang]

The old colour scheme wasn't very good at showing ice either.......

In the early '80s we were on a trip from Singapore to Brunei (to visit the same ex-ascoteer) when, climbing through FL170, the rate of climb dropped drastically. By the time we reached FL180 the ROC had dropped to zero and the speed started to decay.
We were flying in daylight and, although there were cb's nearby, we were clear of them. Being the Tropics there was a lot of moisture in the air.

An 'animated' discussion followed, including the possibility of ice accretion. Looking along the wings, they looked normal but, on closer inspection, the sun's reflection looked a bit strange. We selected the Wing Anti-Ice 'ON' and were amazed to see huge sheets of clear ice peel off the upper surfaces of the wings. The a/c started to climb again and we went on our way, having learned a salutary lesson. Incidentally, we had no ENG ICE warning.

A few years later I was on HTS, route checking a crew member between Dulles and Belize. It was summer and there was a lot of cb activity around Dulles. During the climb the same thing happened. I suggested to the crew that they might like to operate the anti-ice and watch the wings. They were amazed as the sheets of ice flew off the wings and, afterwards, looked at me as if I was some sort of guru.
I came clean and told them about the SIN incident........after they'd bought me a few beers in Belize :)

I remember, after the first incident, I calculated an approximate weight of the ice on the wings. I worked out the area of the wings then using an average ice thickness of 1" came to a weight of ice.
Unfortunately, that was a long time ago and I can't remember the figure - but it was significant.

I'm sure there is an ex G/E on here who could help us out...........

[Don Coyote]

Smuj,

Sorry but I can't recall when the black patches appeared; my guess is 98 ish.

[smujsmith]

OK Kilwhang, here's an attempt by one retired AGE, I'm sure the intelligent one will be along sometime;

C130 wing area

1745 sq ft

Ice 1 cubic inch = 0.03 lbs

1 sq foot of Ice = 144 blocks = 4.32 lbs (per square foot at 1" thick)

4.32 lbs x 1745 = 7538.4 lbs or 3.365 tons.:eek:

At around 3.5 tons of extra weight, with a still decent fuel load plus freight, there's no wonder your climb stopped. Possibly assisted by profile drag and a total change in the aerofoil section. Hope that's near to correct.

Don Coyote, thanks for that. I ended my time as an AGE in 94, preceding the ice patches, thus the reason for my ignorance of them.

Smudge :ok:

[Brian W May]

The answer you're looking for is . . . . LOTS

[fergineer]

As they say flying with ice on your wings you are test flying a brand new aircraft for the first time

[gopher01]

Word at the time was that it was to reduce fuel consumption when bashing the circuit, but it was realised that the performance of the aircraft was so much better, that it could mislead new crews so that when they then flew with tanks attached the drop in performance could have lead to some suprises for the crews. Also the reduction in fuel consumption didn't outway the complications caused by effectively having two fleets, one long range and one short to medium.

[gopher01]

Smudge.
As I was at Goose when we got the news of the crash I must be the other G/E you refer to, as you say a very bad and sad day for all Albert especially as only the weekend before I was having a beer and roast pork butty at our daughter's school fete in Calne with the G/E.

[smujsmith]

Gopher 01,

Goose. Yep ISTR you and MG there.

External tanks. It's interesting that they couldn't let the drivers airframe play with a clean airframe back then. As I remember we had to put a red sticker on the instrument panel to remind them they were driving a longer Albert.:rolleyes:
I believe the J can be used both with and without the externals, so the thinking has changed.

Hope you are well.

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Any ideas chaps on how we might collectively celebrate the impending 400,000th Hit on our Thread ... I guess it will need to be a 'virtual' celebration :(

[smujsmith]

Coff, as Doug M seems to have age seniority on all posters :oh:, perhaps it should be another of his exceptionally good, but repeatable, down route stories. Followed by a communal raising of a glass or two. On the other hand, he could invite us all to his local, even Fergineer might be tempted.

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

That sounds like a good plan Smudge ... Let's see what Dougie has to say ;)

[Dougie M]

Fellers, Fellers Just a mo.
I'm not sure that I hold the "most aged" record being in the company of Jenkins and Willard. I certainly don't rate any exalted position amongst the erudite and knowledgeable posters on this thread.
I will happily continue to add anecdotes to the excellent forum which Coff is to be commended for Manstarting.
If a venue for a commemorative libation is considered then I think that the 5Bells in R.Wooty B. should top the list now that the LXX Sqn association has decamped to Braised Mutton. (besides, I can use my bus pass to get there)
Thank you, though, for your kind words.
Never underestimate a good creep!:ooh:

[CoffmanStarter]

Speed, Time and Distance (all good Nav variables) are going to conspire against us I fear in organising any formal get together ... Also remembering we've got 'contributors' from all four corners of the civilised world who I'm sure might like to join in ... Many places visited by RAF Albert ... So might I suggest the following :)

If we could have a willing volunteer to tell a really cracking (not too risqué) story as we reach the 400,000th Hit ... Then we invite those who wish to participate, to 'raise a glass' of something special and post a pic thereof (preserving anonymity) as a salute to RAF Albert and all who enjoyed his company in whatever capacity.

Not a perfect solution ... But I do think we should do something a little special :ok:

Does that sound like a plan ? Do we have a volunteer storyteller ?

Or are there any other suggestions ...

Coff.

[smujsmith]

Coff, I see a venue on offer, the Five Bells at Royal Wooty Whatsit. If Mr Doug M drinks there, I for one would be grateful of a seat. I'm sure a fair few of the thread contributors could put in an appearance. I'm sure I could assemble a few Hammock Hamsters to support the former operators. It won't matter, call the date and I'm sure we can get an attendance worthy of the thread. Besides, as its Dougs local, it's his first round :rolleyes:

I can do a really good rendition of O my darling Clementine, subject to a supportive male voice choir.

PS Coff, how do we see the hits ? No doubt I've been in my hammock for too long.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Smudge ...

Here you go ...

Military Aviation - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/)

And it's the 'Views' stats column or 'Hits'

[smujsmith]

Thanks Coff, I really do need to open my eyes a bit more. How about Royal Wooty Whatsit then ? I feel more affinity with that location, as a former K man, than Browse Crofton. A very fitting place for a thread meet I reckon. Fergineer should be OK if he goes overboard in the Med, the "Senior Service" will recover him and deliver his thirsty frame to the Bell. I have already found a few "hangers on" who are game for a night out, and, more importantly, Mrs Smudge has offered a return trip to the venue. Who's up for it then gentlemen, a date is all that's required, venue seems good. For those who need a night stop, I can offer a double room, plus a single, full English next day, at no cost as required. Could be a decent do !

Doug, is that the Five Bells we are discussing ?

Smudge:ok:

[Brian 48nav]

48 Sqn association members will be celebrating the centenary of the squadron's founding next April at the Alexandra Hotel in Wroughton - if it is anything like our reunion last year, the best I've been to, it should be a great evening.
PM for the organiser's details!

[kilwhang]

Coff, I hope you’ll let me contribute on this auspicious occasion. This is a typical Albert down-route story. It is, however, quite long and I am a two-fingered typist who suffers from ‘cranker’s wonic’ after a while. Because of this I will submit it in two parts……….

Part 1

In the mid-80s a 47 Sqn crew was on an Eastabout. We were en-route from Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea, to Western Samoa where we planned to night-stop before continuing to Hawaii (Hickum) for a well-earned 2 days off.
The a/c was XV219 and it was performing well apart from a few minor niggles. One not-so-minor problem was that the rudder boost pack had been leaking from the Booster Hydraulic System side and had been isolated.

About two hours into the flight, flying over the Solomon Islands, the Loadie reported that the Utility Hydraulic Reservoir was showing less than half full and still dropping slowly. (For the uninitiated, this was the system that was supplying the ‘good’ side of the rudder boost pack.
Obviously we had to get this looked at; we were talking to Honiara Radio at the time and Honiara International Airport (HIR) was the nearest runway. Honiara is the capital of the Solomon Islands. We talked to Honiara Radio and requested a diversion to HIR because of a technical problem. They were very helpful and cleared us to descend and fly direct to the airfield. A quick search of the route bag showed that all we had for HIR was an airfield chart but, never mind, we had our friend in Honiara Radio…..who gave us the HIR weather and runway-in-use.
Nearing the airfield we asked for a tower frequency but were told to ‘remain this.’ At about 2000’ we asked for, and were given, landing clearance. Once on the ground, we stopped on the runway and the radio conversation went like this:

‘Honiara, ASCOT XXXX request taxy instructions’
‘ASCOT XXXXX where are you?’
‘We’re on RW XX, can’t you see us?’
‘No, I’m downtown Honiara………….’
‘??????????????????????????’
‘………..however, turn left and taxy to the terminal building. You are expected’

Suitably chastened, we taxied towards a low, single storey, building with HONIARA INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT painted on the roof. The letters covered the whole roof and were not very big – this was not a large terminal building. The only other a/c we could see were a couple of sad looking Britten-Norman Islanders, with 3 engines between them. As we approached the terminal, a local – in baggy shorts and a loud T-shirt – appeared and pointed to a spot on the ground. The Loadie got out and chatted to him and confirmed ‘that’s where he wants us’ so we taxied up and shut down.

This is where the crew, like a well-oiled machine, transited from Air to Ground mode (hey! we were 47 Sqn) The G/E and I decided that I would do the normal servicing while he diagnosed the snag. The Loadie negotiated with the loud shirt – aka the Handling Agent – for catering, customs etc and the triumverate (pilots and nav) got their heads in the books to see if we could make it direct to Hickum. After, of course, the night-stop.

I asked the Handling Agent if there was any ground power – DC only, apparently. He went off and returned with what looked like an old supermarket trolley. On this was a long 13amp extension lead, a battery charger, two 12 volt batteries and a 15ft length of a/c DC cable. The Agent said that all he had to do was plug the extension lead into a wall socket in his office and we were good to go. I showed this to the G/E who fell about laughing, but we decided that we could use it for re-fuelling and essential lights. First, though, we spent a few minutes pulling LOTS of circuit breakers.

The Catering guy appeared next and told the Loadie that, since we were on an island, all the catering had to be destroyed and new stuff issued. The Loadie, ever helpful, said that was no problem…….he had a big blue rubbish bag into which he would tip all the food. He would then pour a can of Racasan over it and it would be safe to get rid of. The Catering guy visibly blanched – then stated that HE had to destroy the food, no-one else. The Loadie gave a knowing look then the two of them disappeared down the back to ‘discuss’ things. The upshot was that a smiling Caterer went off with our catering boxes.

By this time, the triumverate had decided we could make it to Hickum so I went to talk to the Refuellers. The fuel company was a father and son set-up and, when I told them how much fuel we wanted, they nearly danced around the bowser. We were to take more fuel in one go than they sold all month. I was impressed that they had a pressure hose, but we did take two bowsers. The G/E had found our problem.......... Now, Smudge, I know you want a detailed technical de-brief but it was a long time ago. All I can remember was that it was a fault in the reservoir vent line. Apparently, as we were just about to land, the level had gone back up to almost normal.

As I re-fuelled, a stretched Austin 1800 (remember them) with a Union Jack pennant drove up to the a/c. The driver got out and opened a rear door…..out stepped the British High Commissioner, in golf kit. As he explained, he had been putting on the 16th when an RAF Albert flew over with its gear down. He surmised it was landing and came to see if we wanted any help. By this time, we had been on the ground for more than 2 hours so he had, obviously, finished his game first. Our Capt took him on a tour of the a/c and he seemed really interested in the stack on the ramp. Like most Eastabout crews, we had made our first stop in Akrotiri to visit the NAAFI and stock up on ‘essentials’. And, like most crews, we had bought sufficient to last us 3 months – just in case. His Excellency was very interested in a large pile of McEwans Export cases and, being polite, we offered him a couple (of cases). At the same time we mentioned that we needed to arrange hotac. He (or should that be H.E.) said that was no problem, he would fix it. He mentioned that, since the hotel manager was from Yorkshire, a case or two would be appreciated.

So, with the a/c fixed and all the paperwork done, we followed the Handling Agent to a deserted terminal to clear Customs and Immigration. Two guys were waiting for us and stamped our passports with, what looked like, hand-made wooden blocks. They explained that it was VERY important that we get our passports stamped on the way out. When we mentioned that we would be leaving at 7am next morning, they looked at each other and said ‘JUST THIS ONCE’ they were willing to do the stamps now. We jumped into the transport and headed towards the hotel.

End of Part 1……….

[smujsmith]

Don't hold back kilwhang, this is what Albert travelogues are made of. Nice to know the GE came up trumps though, I'm a bit biased I suppose :hmm: crankers wonic ? An anagram I assume. As for the reducing Utility res, a clogged vent valve filter sounds to be the culprit, but it's been a while since I saw that snag.


Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Splendid Kilwhang ;)

Now if you can just time Part 2 (which I suspect will be worth waiting for) until the 400th Hit we're good to go :ok:

In the mean time I intend to 'acquire' a half descent bottle of something as I reckon by tomorrow evening we'll have reached the 400K mark :eek:

Best to everyone ...

Coff.

[Alcazares48]

It was August 1982 I spent 20 days in Ascension, flew 141 hours on six sorties, two were roundtrip with airdrop and snatch, three of them we landed after Port Stanley had reopened, on one occasion we were recalled after nine hours! A normal detachment? Not quite.

After the war, a House of Commons Select Committee was sent on a fact finding mission to the Falklands, once they reached Ascension by VC10 and had toured the base and an aircraft carrier by chinook helicopter our crew were tasked with their onward journey.

The mixed party MPs rotated on the flight deck during the journey especially during air to air refuelling and were thrilled to find an escort of phantom jets up tight and personal to escort us in as we neared the islands. Cue excitement and many photos.

We were all accommodated in the only hotel on the islands The Upland Goose, something akin to a 1950´s Blackpool guest house, this was disconcerting for us to have a group of MPs breathing down our necks. Mainly because we had to be on our best behaviour, and we had a couple of scams going with Des King the hotel owner, mainly over converting our lunch to wine and bringing him fresh produce from the US military in exchange for drinks in the bar.

We got very friendly with a young politician called Chris Patten who spared the time to chat with us over coffee, he told us that Michael Mates MP had borrowed his son James´ (of ITN fame) camera and was unofficial group snapper, only to later discover that the camera had no film in it.
At breakfast the next morning we were eavesdropping on the conversation of two MPs about an intruder in in there room in the middle of the night, they were not sure if they had dreamt it.

I was pretty sure I knew who it was likely to be. Our co-pilot P*** P***t had drunkenly called for more wine at dinner, the captain told him that he´d had enough so he proclaimed at the top of his voice “Don’t worry the Queen she will pay!” Cue many kicks under the table.
He left the dining room, stumbled into the fire extinguisher, setting it off but he was in a hurry to go out with a fighter mate. He got back at about 2am and despite asking Des´s daughter to leave the door on the catch was locked out, but he still invited his mate in for a night cap.
He incorrectly guessed which window was his bedroom, climbed up onto the conservatory and fell through the open window frightening two labour MPs in the process! He did the normal drunken Shhhhh! And then he and his mate stumbled into the corridor where they sat and cracked a few tinnies.

I had to share with my engineer C**** S***h who liked a drink and a fag and could snore for England. Unbelievably this urge meant whilst I was reading a book in bed he was necking a can and puffing a fag, it was then lights out and SNORE. About three am I would hear a match striking and a can opening followed by the big SNORE, this was repeated at about 7am!!
After two nights my captain C***s M**n took pity on me and I moved in with him.

My eng and I also suffered embarrassment the following day when out for a walk around Port Stanley surveying the war damage. We took a stroll down to the racecourse where there were a couple of aircraft wrecks; we had not gone far when a voice screamed at us - “Stop where you are! Go no further; you are walking into a minefield!” Luckily we were able to retrace our steps and then returned to the hotel to change our underwear!
Happy Days!

[CoffmanStarter]

Great story Alcazares48 ! ... :D:D:D:D

[Dougie M]

A winter's tale.
Our RM mates do love to play in extreme conditions and by close association we used to be dragged along. Some places were more enjoyable than others and Harstad in Norway is one. A number of airdrop exercises over the winter months were popular more with the crews than the Marines. Cosily ensconced in the Viking hotel we ventured forth to support our freezing bootneck buddies from the relative comfort of Albert. Launching one evening to resupply the patrols with night drops we were aware of the changeable weather conditions but it was do able. The terrain in north Norway is very high and only suitable for brooding Norse gods. Very much aware of this, the map reading was backed up by calls of where the high ground was and time to the next turn. Rounding a steep sided valley spur after the last drop after dark and in pretty spag vis, we suddenly went IMC. "Heading" said Uncle Bulgaria. "325" says I. "High ground", "Right and left up to 7000ft and time to next turn 3.5 mins" "I'm going to **** myself" quoth the Captain as he sat Albert on its tail and climbed through the thick cloud.
We blasted into clear black sky at 8500ft still going up. "You can level off a bit now" says I "Point me towards Evenes, we're going home" Says he.
Later, in the Red Barn we are drinking coke. Spirits are so expensive in Norway that the Marines had given us a wizard wheeze. We had plasma bottles of vodka under our armpits and IV leads down our sleeves to a cannula which dispensed a shot into the coke with a bagpipe players squeeze.
The following day was fortuitously weathered out so whilst sitting in the hotel reception we observed what we thought was a women's sports team checking in. A group of young ladies apparently from the Lofoten Islands. The usual lounge lizard approach from one of our PJIs met with icy coolness. "Must be lesbians" he said.
Later at the bar they all arrived together in a much more amenable frame of mind. "Why the sudden change of mood?" "We came here today for "control" they said "You know, cervical smear test so we were like nuns"
The evening perked up a bit after that."
The det flying area was carefully controlled by the Norgies. "You may not fly in these areas because of the Rangers" we were told. "Are they part of the exercise?" we asked. "What?"
"The Norwegian Rangers, are they part of the exercise?"
The Norgie briefer placed his splayed hands, thumbs inward to his head and said in his Swedish cook voice
"The reindeers are migrating" .... "Oh"
I love the place


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/2b7f9a6e-97b7-47ba-885d-db9c308de08d_zpsmny2vwwk.jpg

[kilwhang]

Congratulations, Coff. Here, as promised, is the continuing saga (for new readers, continued from Post 3126)

Part 2

The 30 minute drive was through a jungle landscape and the hotel, when we got to it, was just as you’d imagine a South Seas hostelry would be. There were four ‘Long House’ type buildings stretched along the beach with the bar, restaurant and reception areas in the middle. Golden sands stretched as far as the eye could see and the surface of the water was only disturbed by the gentlest lapping of waves on the beach.
As we unloaded our cases, we were greeted by a call of ‘Ay Oop’ and turned to meet the manager. He was a rather large gentleman and definitely from Yorkshire. There were affable handshakes all round and, after we had presented him with the cases of McEwans, he made it clear that our money was no good in his bar. I told this story to some civvy friends a few years back and they asked ‘what about food’. They couldn’t quite understand when I told them that Her Britannic Majesty’s Imprest took care of all that!

We found our rooms and quickly changed into the standard Ascoteer down-route kit (shorts and flip-flops for the NCOs, cravats and Pith Helmets for the officers) and met in the bar (instantly christened the Yorkie Bar). The manager was waiting for us and a very pleasant evening ensued.
He was a really interesting guy, one of those ex-pats you meet all over the world – guys who just seem to drift around picking up nice little jobs and, in his case, a very nice local lady. He was an amateur historian and gave us a very interesting insight into Honiara.

The island we were on was better known as Guadalcanal. As I’m sure you all know, during WW2, it was the scene of one of the pivotal battles in the Pacific. The Japanese were incredibly well dug in on the island and it took a huge force of American troops to dislodge them. The Japanese were given the infamous ‘no surrender’ order from their superiors and many of them (including families) preferred to commit suicide rather than give themselves up. You’ve all heard the stories of Japanese soldiers being found in the jungle years later. The last Soldier of Nippon surrendered in Guadalcanal in 1947, but there was one stubborn guy in the Philippines who held out till around 1980. Of course, there was a lot of equipment abandoned in the jungle and ‘Ay Oop’ told us that the Australian Armed Forces had been involved in clearing up well into the 70’s.
The loss of men and machines was horrific and the waters off the north of the island were full of sunken ships of all kinds – from landing craft to destroyers – both US and Japanese. There is so much metal on the sea bed that the stretch of water has been named Iron Bottom Sound. A lot of the ships were sunk in shallow water and at the end of the war, instead of taking equipment home with them, the Americans dropped a lot of it into the shallows. This has become an artificial reef and is now teeming with marine life.
Apparently, you could get a very good view from a low-flying a/c and we decided to ask our friend in Honiara Radio if we could do a low-level departure.

At some point in the evening I was ‘tired’ enough to go to bed and it seemed no time at all before there was a knock on my door. Half asleep, I remembered that I had ordered breakfast in my room and staggered to the door. The waiter, in local dress, pushed a trolley out to the balcony. I watched amazed as he produced a parang from about his person and, in a blur of hand and blade, reduced a fresh pineapple into nice edible chunks. I have to admit that, even in my fragile state, watching the sun come up was a treat.
We gathered in Reception, waiting for transport and saying our farewells to the manager. We told him that we would say hello to Yorkshire next time we were there. He looked around at his domain and, without a trace of sincerity in his voice, said ‘Aye…….I really miss it!’

On the transport, the Capt said that they had managed to file the Flight Plan and we were good to go. The driver switched on the radio, it was a local station but in a couple of minutes we heard the familiar strains of ‘Lilliburlero’ followed by six pips and ‘This is the BBC World Service – The News’. A 5-minute bulletin followed and the only bit I can remember was something about the Duke of Edinburgh on an overseas visit. The News was followed by 10 minutes of music then read again…….but this time in Pidgin English. We had a great time trying to work out what was being said. One bit I liked was when they mentioned the Duke of Edinburgh – in Pidgin, ‘Man Blong Queenie’.

The airfield was deserted but, of course, Albert was sitting there eagerly awaiting his next task. The transport dropped us off at an open gate and we wandered out to the a/c. There was an, apparently, abandoned catering wagon under the stbd wing but a couple of bangs on the side caused the driver to wake up and do his thing.
The pre-flt preparations were efficiently carried out. The Loadie said the catering looked really great and we were in for a treat. Those of you may be wondering about the, somewhat relaxed, catering arrangements need not worry. Everything was done by the book – and the Loadie had a receipt to prove it!

We called up Honiara Radio for Start Clearance. He excelled himself – giving us the HIR weather, runway-in-use, Flight Clearance, Start Clearance, Taxy Clearance and finished by saying ‘Call ready for line-up’. Now, THAT is efficiency. Cotswold Radar, eat your heart out! (God, that dates me) We asked if we could do a low-level departure to look at the reef – of course, that was no problem.
So, ready for line-up we called Honiara and were given clearance to Take Off. As soon as we were airborne we headed towards the reef. It was amazing. This was 30 years ago and the shapes of the ships and equipment were still clearly visible – a real treat. I believe it is now one of the most sought after dive sites in the world.

We climbed to our cruising altitude and completed the flight to Hickam arriving 20 mins behind our original schedule. On-time arrival was very important to us because, two weeks previously, we had arranged a tee time at the Pearl Harbor Golf Course on our day off! (Note the American spelling)

So that was our visit to Honiara. The entry in my logbook says, simply:
Port Moresby – Honiara 3 hrs 45 min
Honiara – Hickam 10 hrs 30 min

But, like all logbook entries, there is always more to it.

As the late, lamented Chas Finn-Kelsey might have said ‘Just another episode in the lives of a crew, from a secret airbase somewhere in Wiltshire’.

:)


[CoffmanStarter]

Cheers everyone ... We've now passed over 400,000 Hits on our Thread :ok:

Not that I need an excuse for a drink ... But I'm raising a glass this end to salute RAF Albert, along with all his crews both Air and Ground, who served with him throughout his 60+ years of sterling service ... I do hope some of you will join me.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/IMG_1184_zpsdvg4utww.jpg

I'm particularly grateful to every 'contributor' to our Thread (over 3,000 individual posts) ... especially AA62 and Smudge for helping keep things entertaining (I mention you chaps specifically given you've posted over 400+ times Smudge ... and you AA62, over 700+ times :D)

If you 'Click' on the 'Number' (c 3,000) in the 'Replies' Column against our Thread on the following URL ... a list will appear of everyone who has contributed ... Again "Thank You All".

Military Aviation - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/)

Kilwhang, Alcazares48, Dougie M ... Thanks to you Gents for the recent stories ... with material like this (I'm thinking we might start issuing Master Green Story Telling Cards) ... we might just make 500,000 Hits :eek:

Very best wishes to all ...

Coff.

[Dougie M]

Congrats Coff for running a brilliant thread. Happy memories and good company

[smujsmith]

Well done Coff,

An achievement indeed. The glass is being hoisted as I type. Your kind mention of my contribution made me wonder why I just keep coming back, it's like the fleet I worked on a few years ago, a fine aircraft crewed by some great people, and maintained by some of the best, something I think most would agree is worthy of comment. This thread reflects that, and for me the first 400,000 have been a privilege, here's to post #1,000,000. Cheers to all.

Smudge :ok:

[ACW418]

Well done to you all. I've never even been close to a Hercules but I have been and still am enjoying the whole thing.

ACW

[dragartist]

Well done Coff and best regards to all of the contributors. Had a great exchange, made some friends and learned a few things.


Just got in. cracked a bottle of Aspels premier Cru. An Air Despatcher mate told me you never get a headache in the morning dinking cyder! he lied!


Cheers
Drag

[Alcazares48]

Well done everyone, what a fantastic find this forum was.

kilwhang what a great story, didnt we all want to go U/S in a place like Honiara?

Dougie´s story about "Reindeer" reminds me of the crew in the Caribbean who sat waiting for the Catering.

The co got onto the tower and said:
"We are still waiting for our RATIONS, can you chase them up?"

Ten minutes later the tower called back
"Ascot we have spoken to the RUSSIAN embassy and they know nothing!"

Or..... on descent into Lyneham the Eng says to the Belgian Loady.
Loady you got any SNAGS?
He says: "We have a few of those little pasty things or some sandwiches."

"Snags Loady, not Snacks!" :O

[ICM]

So which one of you is going to write the book that clearly resides in all of this?

[smujsmith]

ICM,

I reckon you could be correct. I've just finished reading Valiant Boys, having also read Lightning boys 1 & 2, Buccaneer boys, Victor Boys, Hunter Boys, Jaguar boys and Vulcan boys, with Phantom boys having just been delivered, I think there's space on my bookshelf for Albert Boys. As the instigator of the thread, has Coff got a book in his grasp though ?

Anyone familiar with the H****y J*****n story on the approach into, I heard, Trinidad ? Now that's a belter, though perhaps not politically correct.

Doug M,

Norway from a GE vantage point;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/74a7370da9dc41bd141fd04b3489d116_zps9dkponql.jpg

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

No book plans from me chaps ... I barely qualify on a 'Friends and Family' ticket anyway ... I'm just enjoying the banter, stories and history ;)

[smujsmith]

Not sure if this has been posted before chaps, but worthy of a rebroadcast;

http://youtu.be/aVjuw3g7jgE

Smudge :ok:

[billynospares]

Constructed a couple of Brandy sours to celebrate this threads 4000 . Just don't taste the same here at home. Bit of a thick head this morning though :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

I too have the Honiara 'tick' including the flyby of the WW2 wrecks. I think I posted a pic of some of them earlier but here is a repeat below. More than one rusting Landing Ship was being used to house chickens.
It was on either Honiara or one of the other small islands that we were refused fuel as they had not been paid by FEAF for the last Herc visit. Our vision of an idyllic enforced stay was shattered when FEAF woke up and wired the money down. We left on schedule the next day.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/WW2WRECKAGE_zps936adc82.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/WW2WRECKAGE_zps936adc82.jpg.html)

[CoffmanStarter]

Good to see you back AA62 :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

I wonder how may readers of this thread, like ACW418, have no connection with the 'K' but are enjoying the pics and stories. Would any of you, if there are any, like to take part in a 'show of hands' ?

[Jackw106]

I have spent many a long hour en route to a DZ, BAOR, Denmark comes to mind.
I did enjoy the opportunity to visit the FD even though I was a non smoker
The C-130 Hercules in RAF Service - RAF Museum




watch?v=DaUVhEaK_OE

[taxydual]

Both my hands are raised. Cracking thread. Only saw the inside of an Albert once in my 25 years service.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/BILLANDHARRYINFLYINGOVERALLS_zps363b22d8.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/BILLANDHARRYINFLYINGOVERALLS_zps363b22d8.jpg.html)

This pic is one of those 'where did the time go ?' moments. AA around the time of my retirement and my grandson. He has just finished his CPL/IR.
Tempus Fugit in reheat !

[ancientaviator62]

taxydual,
can you remember where and when you and the 'K' met ?

[taxydual]

AA62

Hamilton, Bermuda. 1977. HM The Queens' Silver Jubilee Tour of the Caribbean. Returning (via Lajes) to the UK with the Royal baggage.

I dossed down on top of the baggage net (on the advice of the Loadie) where, sometime during my zizz, my ear defenders popped off. I was deaf for days.

Good times.

[dragartist]

I guess folks do a bit of cross threading. - Not the nuts and bolts type Smudge! There is another tread about the Falklands. As a result I have read a number of recently released books. half way through Brown and his South American War. This brings together the Exocet books, Hutchings and others. It names the C130 guys involved in various OPs. I guess some of the names have been changed to protect the "guilty".


Some interesting tales about landing the C130 on a roadway to support the 39 Sqn Canberra that was cancelled. Also support to 51 and the Nimrod operating form San Felix. I must admit I did not know San Felix and Easter Island were two different places. I thought it a bit like the Falklands and Malvinas until Marcantilan put me right.


I have flown with a couple of the named Mikado guys. One shattered my illusions about Val Singleton (of Blue Peter fame) when we were doing some high altitude guided stuff in Arizona. Our Security must have been good because he never told of his past. Others I have spoken to claim to have done this and that but have not been named in the flood of books. I figure it may be a bit like the number who I have spoken to claim to have been on the Iranian Embassy balcony - It would have collapsed under their weight. Some would still have been in Primary School!


At the time I was at Wyton involved in a C130 mod for the theatre which took me to Marshall a couple of times when it was a real hive of activity.


I figure there is still lots of detail to emerge about the C130 masquerading in Chilean markings. I found it odd to read that Hutchins and others did not realise they were flying on an RAF Herc.


Also the French impounding an aircraft in Tahiti on its way to Hawaii was interesting to me. Was this one dressed up in Chilean markings.

[Rwy in Sight]

I am one of those that has been on a number or C-130H/E and flown to/from leave. I was the enlisted guy helping run the load office in my base - so I was always on the list of pax for the flights I wanted.

Also, back in the mi90's I heard a rumor about the crews of RAF C-130s following the parachute jumps done by the troops they carried. Is there any truth on that story?

Rwy in Sight

[smujsmith]

Oh dear Rwy in sight,

I suspect a bag of worms not worthy of unearthing.

Drag, like yourself I'm reading some of the recent Falklands output. Exocet Falklands being my latest tome, interesting to read what people I always respected were prepared to do in the cause of "obeying orders", no doubt their supporting crew, who were not invited to have an opinion, might wonder at their own paucity of cash back from such memories. I reckon a development of the Val Singleton line might draw some serious attention.

Smudge

[Wokkafans]

Talking of parachutists, when was the last time a C-130 did a drop at Hankley Common? The signs there state it is still active but I've never seen a drop.

[Top Bunk Tester]

Last bit of action on Hankley Common was a Merlin destroying an old country house called ......... "Skyfall"

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad168/Gadget_Meister/image.jpg1_zpsk6hfmtbk.jpg (http://s932.photobucket.com/user/Gadget_Meister/media/image.jpg1_zpsk6hfmtbk.jpg.html)

[dragartist]

TBT, RAeS HQ appear to be running a special behind the scenes film night about Skyfall - Apologies for the fred drift.

[dragartist]

Smudge,
I would not wish tales of Val Singleton to get in the way. I admire what these guys trained for and undertook. It is a good job Mikado was called off or I may not ever have had the pleasure to meet them.


I think the conversation may have gone along the lines of famous people they have had on board, Royalty, politicians, and celebrities. idle chatter. I think Val and John Noakes did a jump with the Falcons.

[ksimboy]

When i did my ALM para course Janet Ellis was training for her jump with the Falcons. The stickers made by the trainee loadies didnt go down too well at PTS. Personally i couldnt see a problem with a sticker saying "I had a jump with Janet!"

[Dougie M]

Smuj
Lets not forget the episode of a G.E. and Judith Chalmers

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/b6983f68-116b-499f-a814-9d60d9e82d05_zpsaa46e4c4.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/b6983f68-116b-499f-a814-9d60d9e82d05_zpsaa46e4c4.jpg.html)

Just in case any of the readers missed this pic. It is an RAF 'K' and a Chilean Hercules at Easter Island. I took the pic as we departed after leaving the a/c to be 'redecorated' and used by SF.

[Alcazares48]

Ksimboy, I was alm on the day Janet Ellis did her C130 jump. The crew were given cloth Blue Peter badges and my voice appeared on the clip shown on the tv programme. The only problem, they showed our takeoff while you could hear me saying "nose wheels chocked, main wheel chocks removed"!
XV305 CMk3 Flt Lt Harris 9 Nov 1983.
Nige Rogoff, who 15 years later was to lose a leg in the "Aston Villa" incident, was the trainer/despatcher.

[Alcazares48]

Talking of parachutists, when was the last time a C-130 did a drop at Hankley Common? The signs there state it is still active but I've never seen a drop.

Gosh! Hankley Common DZ, checked my logbook, my last drop 2 x sim 6, June 15 1984 XV189 Flt Lt Charlton.

I didnt realise that it had such a rich history until I googled it. In fact I didnt even know where it was! :-(

Note to self, watch Skyfall.

[gopher01]

As Max Boyce used to say " I know because I was there ", the slight repaint was OK but the cutout sticky registration numbers to put on the frames for the trip home were the laugh as one of the original aircraft went U/S before departure from Lyneham so we came back with the wrong tail number on the aircraft as they didn't have time to prepare the correct numbers for the new frame and nobody noticed all the way home. Mind you we did stick them on the para doors which I believe is not legal as they are supposed to be a fixed part of the frame.
A good and interesting trip which got me a week in Fiji and a week in Hawaii !

[ancientaviator62]

Forgot to say the Easter Island 'K' was XV 292, at least that's what my log book says !
I have a very dim memory of two of the 'K's ending up at Lyneham with the same numbers before normality was restablished. Anyone recall this ?

[Niceredtrousers]

I wonder how may readers of this thread, like ACW418, have no connection with the 'K' but are enjoying the pics and stories. Would any of you, if there are any, like to take part in a 'show of hands' ?

I'm complete SLF with no connection to to the forces apart from grandparents in WWII, getting misty-eyed whenever I hear the throb of a Merlin overhead, and being full of admiration for what you all did and still do.
Loving this thread and many others (the pilot's brevet in WWII thread has kept me going for years).

Yours, wishing I'd joined up,
NRT

[ancientaviator62]

taxydual,
the noise level in the Hercules cargo compartment was quite high as this study below demonstrated.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/HERCULES%20NOISE_zpstvhh9vsq.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/HERCULES%20NOISE_zpstvhh9vsq.jpg.html)

[ancientaviator62]

NRT,
glad you are enjoying the thead. If you had joined up and joined us on the 'K' you can see what an interesting time you could have had. It was not all beer and barbies (both types) as the fatalities have shown but I doubt that I would change a thing from my time in the RAF.

[smujsmith]

AA62,

Interesting article re the noise in Albert. I know for fact that my hearing definitely suffered after 5000 hrs plus of hammock operations. Although my "reduced auditory acuity" was noted on my discharge, no one suggested it was anything unusual. Pardon ?

Doug M, Mz Chalmers, now there's one for the books, I will tell him you remember when I see him next.:=

Drag, just finished Exocet Falklands myself, and found it a very "eye opening" tome. Knowing some of the named characters in the book put it into some perspective, and probably, like you I have nothing but respect for their determination to do their best, should they be asked to go.

Smudge:ok:

[taxydual]

AA62

THANKS FOR THAT. TALK ABOUT 'LEARNING THROUGH EXPERIENCE'.

OH, SORRY, I'M SHOUTING....

I'M DEAF YOU KNOW. CAN'T THINK WHY.

:ok:

[Dougie M]

The sad thing is that for some years now, los of hearing due to flying in Albert is considered an "occupational hazard" and not the fault of the Services for some inexplicable reason.
If you try to cite it as a disability the SPVA will tell you that it's not admissible as being caused by, or made worse by your service. You are still high tone deaf with tinnitus though. I have learned sign language.

[smujsmith]

Doug,

Thank god for writing, I can't hear what you are saying. Have one on me and send me the bill.

Smudge:ok:

[November4]

In about 1988, I was issued with a nice set of ear defenders whilst on MAMS. A couple of week later they were taken off me as they were being recalled as they did not offer enough protection. Personally I always used the yellow ear plugs and those ear defender.

5 years ago, I put a claim in for tinitus and hearing loss. Even though it was stated on my med docs that it was caused through aircraft noise, I was told it was not due to that but down to old age and I would get nothing for it.

Funny how the tinitus started in 1991 and I was under a consultant at Wroughton at the time...

[Mal Drop]

If the discotheque didn't allow pneumatic drills, then I didn't go in.

Manoeuvre chrysanthemum accommodation.

/End of spelling test.

[smujsmith]

I suspect that many, including non Albert operatives, have suffered the same fate regarding hearing. I know that my usual adornment for "a few minutes nap" in the hammock usually entailed the yellow pellets, covered by either Ear Defs, kept from my linie days, or, a Mk4 Headset. None of it seems to have helped when communicating with my fellow human beings, but it has at least given me an excuse for missing every utterance that SWMBO utters :ouch:

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

When I was with the HEART I dug into the archives to see if I could discover a staff response to this report as non of the recommendations were ever implemented during my time. I found a letter from SM59 at Wyton to ATAR at MOD asking for advice 'on how to proceed' and whether funding would be provided for 'further investigation and remedial action'. There the paper trail went cold.
When the HEART visited Abbey Wood and spoke to the 'J' team one of my questions concerned the noise level in the 'J'. After much shuffling of feet it was finally admitted that the noise level in the 'J' cargo compartment would be higher that the 'K' ! Never having flown in a 'J' I have no way of knowing just how bad it is.
My retirement medical was done by the SMO who had my hearing test repeated as it was 'too good to be true'. But it has not deteriorated very much even years later. I had a free hearing test six months ago when I had my eyes retested and apart from a slight attenuation of the HF it was still very good. My wife is always asking for the TV/radio sound to be turned up and I cannot stand the sound to be too loud !
After all those years on the Hastings/Hercules I have no idea why my hearing has held up, nor it appears does anyone else.

[1.3VStall]

I wonder how the MoD gets away with classing loss of hearing due to Albert flying as an "operational hazard".

My father-in-law did two tours on the Shack, one as a co-pilot and one as a captain; hence he is deaf in both ears! Because of this he gets a disability pension from the MoD.

[Brian W May]

High tone deaf with tinnitus . . . now that sounds (sic) familiar.

I spent two years at Colerne sat outside as safety man everytime we had to do engine runs - several hours each aircraft.

My head would ring afterwards, it was such a relief to be inside it, but I'm sure that exacerbated an increasingly bad situation.

The tinnitus is constant now and expensive stereos definitely a no-no.

[Wander00]

Used to be that deafness due to weapon firing attracted a disability payment, but ISTR that got binned. However, especially in this day and age, might be worth consulting RAFA/RBL/Forces Pension Society to find out current position on that, and more particularly Shack or Albert loss of hearing. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and an e-mail is free.

[Vzlet]

Despite no connection with the K (or any C-130, save one A (http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Air/Lockheed-C-130A-Hercules/0232518/L/)), I continue to enjoy this thread for the insight into the Herc, its operation, and of course the tales of tribulation and derring-do of the operators. (Notwithstanding the occasionally baffling flow of Briticisms!) :confused:

Please continue!

[kilwhang]

AA62:

'I had my hearing tested when I had my eyes re-tested'

I always suspected that Loadies were..........'different' :)

[gopher01]

Your recollection is correct, see my prior entry regarding sticky black plastic numbers and the wrong airframe! We also ended up coming back through the states with the worlds collection of refuelling probes robbed off various Vulcans that had been donated to museums after their time had ended.
We had 5 G/Es on that trip, me, C....y W...e, M..k W..D and two from A line whose names I can't remember.

[gopher01]

On one trip across the pond we took a bod from the Inst of Aviation Medicine with us to monitor noise levels, he got off in Gander and wouldn't go any further as he considered it a danger to his hearing.
I have always wondered how Israeli Hercs differed from ours as in "the Raid on Entebbe" they all start off singing nice and quietly and gradually join in. When we used to go on detachment to El Adem from Thorney the bridge school had a board with the suits and numbers on for their bidding as you couldn't hear any bidding even down by the Para door

[sixfootfive]

All, I did my stint on LXX and J XXIV in the 90's and early 2000s. A couple of questions. Dougie, are you the same Dougie described rather bravely by a young LXX Exec on his ACR as 'in the autumn of his career?' Also, I can remember Hot and Cold, CO' End, Jurrasic and Trappers Den (?) as possible crew bus destinations but there must have been more. Can anyone put me out of my misery?

[WIDN62]

.... and of course Lloyds Bank Car Park, which became the car park formerly known as Lloyds Bank after the bank closed.

[WIDN62]

If you are asking for a decode, here goes:
Hot and Cold = Hercules Conversion Squadron
CO's End = there were 2 entrances to the Terminal Building - the Staish's office was at the top of the stairs from the one by the domestic site
Jurassic = the new building that the OCU lived in - a bunch of old dinosaurs (allegedly!)
Trapper's Den = not one I am familiar with but would guess at the home of STANEVAL - or whatever they were called at the time.

[Dougie M]

There were also STS and TFD for the more far flung parts of the airfield.


As for ACRs. My final one was read out to me describing the "sunset of my career". I thought I'd say that because last year you were reported as being in the twilight of your service." said the exec.
"Suits me" I said "But I can still tell you that twilight follows sunset so you might want to change the poetic license"
Never did get a Dining Out.

[CoffmanStarter]

Never did get a Dining Out ...

That's inexcusable :(

[ancientaviator62]

I recall the chap running the 'K' noise trial saying that the headsets we used were worse than useless as they generated a false sense of security. He suggested that ear plugs should be worn as well as the headset as a short term solution pending more effective measures. Have any trials been carried out on the 'J' noise levels ?

[WIDN62]

Yes, comprehensive trials were done on the J. Initially there were limits placed on how long could be spent in each area of the aircraft. Everybody now has noise reduction headsets which make a huge difference.

[ancientaviator62]

WIDN62,
thank you. I wonder where these 'areas' were (in line with the props ?) and how were the pax protected ? Good to hear (pun intended) that you have been provided with some decent kit to protect your hearing.

[WE992]

AA62. I can't remember the exact areas but there were certain seats that were not allowed to be used for pax on the J due to the noise. It was a real pain an the pax could never understand why they would be shoe horned into a few seats yet other seats were folded up and not in use.

[smujsmith]

Just back on K noise briefly Gentlemen, from my point of view, the yellow squeezy ear plugs, combined with either the headset or a set of ear defenders was my preferred protection. As AA62 suggests. As for locations, I found it a very comfortable ride with hammock rigged across the ramp, though often very cold, despite the sleeping bag. I was always grateful on a long trip to be able to visit the second most comfortable place on the aircraft, the flight deck, where a warming cup of coffee often did the trick. Ahh, it was a hard life, but someone had to do it, as they say:rolleyes:

Smudge :ok:

[DCThumb]

We can't talk about Crew busses without a mention of 'Malcolm', his bacon butty runs, and the greeting of the staish (Gp Capt Adams) "A'yup Dave".......

[ExAscoteer]

We can't talk about Crew busses without a mention of 'Malcolm', his bacon butty runs


Oh yes, what a character!

Ay'up Malcolm!

He did pretty nifty hanging baskets as I recall.

[fergineer]

Malcolm was a character long before he was driving the buses and I knew him from 73 from my old B line days

[Fluffy Bunny]

Cheers chaps for a most interesting read. It's certainly a weighty tome, but full of wonderful content.
My small part in this story is as a young and (fairly) fresh faced SAC back in the mid to late '90s I was posted to that most secret headquarters in Bucks and spent many a day in the Commcen typing out the transops and trails for 38Gp. It was an arduous task not only going out as regular signals, but having to then re-type into RAFAN as well as OFTS for the civvy handling agents. But sat there in the office with no windows it always got me thinking of the lucky barstewards actually doing the routes not just the crew but as a sample;
1 X GE
1 X SVC
2 X UKMAMS
2 X ATSY

[WE992]

Fluffy Bunny. Whilst the aircraft could almost fly itself it certainly could not fix itself, guard itself or load itself with the exceptions of no fault found and Self Loading Freight. Apart from that we were needed to help consume the massive amount of crew rations when not in our hammocks.

[Dougie M]

I spent a lot of time taking ATSY X 2 around the world and most facilities had their own security or were military bases with the infernal "rope and donuts" free fire zones. When at last we needed the frame guarded overnight, the ATSY announced that they actually needed three service police for a shift! Why not bring three then? was asked.
The previous night stop in hotac required the co to pay for a mini fridge contents because the occupants "wanted a nightcap"
Their boss said "I have two volunteers to help guard the frame with the plods"
The following morning we had to pound on the crew door for access and the police said that they had spent an awful night out in the bundu.
"The troops disappeared at nightfall and afterwards every time we went out to check the frame there was a red laser spot on our heads as we walked round so we locked ourselves in!"
It would take a heart of stone not to smile, but on their own admission they were never scaled to mount a shift of point guarding.

[Null Orifice]

AHHH! The mention of 'No Fault Found' activated a distant memory from my time on 48 at Changi.
Debriefing after a trip, a Fright Gingerbeer (first name began with a J) came into the flight servicing office and solemnly recorded a (slightly) high start temp in the F700 (as he was duty bound to do so) on the No 3 engine: on leaving, he mockingly uttered words similar to "I suppose you'll clear that with the usual No Fault Found":=.

After investigating the reported fault, including the customary waste of fuel known as a check start, the honest (but somewhat tongue-in-cheek) clearance entry in the hallowed tome was duly inscribed as 'Unable to reproduce fault":rolleyes:.

High start temps were a commonly experienced feature of the first (No 3) engine start-up, especially in the conditions prevailing in Singers, and was probably the most commonly-reported engine snag at the time, especially when the wind was from the chuff direction.
Those with some knowledge of the K's noisy bits will understand from whence my username originates, being not unrelated to the high start temp scenario; for others, it does not relate to any other orifice, personal or otherwise :ooh:

[Saladbar]

Mr M!!
How the devil?

[smujsmith]

Apologies if it's been posted before, but a few minutes of K reminiscences;

http://youtu.be/2AOKc1dsVmo

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Null,
at the other end of the temperature scale were the 'enrichment' starts which certainly perked up the engine temps. I think we on the 'K' fleet initially misunderstood when this was to be used so may have used it rather more often than necessary. I am sure one of the tech posters can 'illuminate' this !

[Null Orifice]

aa62

My post about No Fault Found with regard to high peak TIT during an engine start sequence was made with particular reference to the conditions prevailing at Changi (along with a mischievous dig at the FE involved :E) .
Simply turning the aircraft into wind would often 'fix' this reported defect (here, I am referring to slight overtemps i.e. those recorded between 830-850 degrees C).
Unfortunately, the aircraft parking layouts at both Changi and Lyneham (especially Bays 5 to 8) along with those at some other other exotic operating bases proved less than ideal in certain wind conditions: coupled with an unfavourable wind direction and/or high ambient air temps, these were major factors in many of the large number of reported high start temps.

[ancientaviator62]

Null,
appreciate the circumstances you describe. I understand the P and W engines on the early 747 a/c could be impossible to start if there was a brisk wind 'up the chuff' . We used to go from Changi to Korea in the winter and would have to use enrichment there as the Korean winters were very cold.
Neither the a/c nor ourselves appreciated the temperature difference.
Same could be said for a winter transit via Goose or Gander (all jokes welcome) down to Belize and return.

[ancientaviator62]

Whist typing the latest post the REDS have just flown straight over the house. There were nine in two 'gaggles' of five, three and a singleton.
I wonder where they had been and were headed. Only a teeny thread drift !

[ksimboy]

Heading towards London and Trooping the colour perhaps?

[ancientaviator62]

ksimboy,
of course, thank you. I should have realised but where had they been ? Here in W Sussex they went over the house from South to North give or take a degree or two. Very impressive.

[Fluffy Bunny]

Still not as impressive as the Barrows though!

[Null Orifice]

aa62

Regarding the harsh Korean winters, my one and only visit to that place was (I believe) in March when on a 48 Sqdn North Pacific trainer from Changi.
As the senior SVC for the trip (prior to the invention of the Ground Engineer), I had diligently carried out a route prep inspection on the chosen frame on the day prior to departure: I was just a little peeved to find we had been given a different frame for the trip when we arrived at 48 servicing control on the morning of departure.
The replacement frame was blessed with plenty of hours available for the trip but was otherwise a heap of junk, with several Acceptable Deferred Defects (ADDs) and some OOPS (Out of Phase Servicing) items including magnetic plug checks on the engines and prop oil levels to be checked while down the route. There were also several ominous entries in the F700 that hinted of a recent history of fuel gauge problems.

We arrived at Kimpo not long before sunset. Due to an ADD on a defective refuelling valve in the right hand external tank, and the lack of a volunteer from the aircrew, I was the guy selected (by me :sad:) to open-line refuel the said tank. As the sun sank from the sky, the ambient air temp fell rapidly southward accompanied by a chilling breeze. Being incorrectly dressed for this sudden change in weather I decided to raid the infamous Arctic Pack for a Parka jacket. Imagine my joy on discovering they were all SMALL sized, whereas I was (still am!) a 'portly 40-something' in clothing store parlance.

The crew had departed to the comparative warmth of the ops/met/coffee bar with the captain wearing my service issue tie - I believe he still has it.
On the return leg from Guam our overnight stop was Yokota (Saturday night!). Here, the dreaded fuel gauge history caught up with us. The ever-helpful USAF ramp controller offered the assistance of a 'gauge man' who promptly asked me whereabout in the cargo compartment had we moved the fuel gauge test sockets! When told these were non-existent in the K, he offered his apologies and left us to it.

Signals between our driver and the folks who lived on the hill at Changi followed, as the aforesaid driver tried to negotiate a clearance to route back to Changi via Clark Field in the Phillipines ;), in order to circumvent some of the gauge problems. At some stage during the negotiations, the squadron commander became involved and (allegedly) politely invited our driver to get his a$$ back to base without further ado. Needless to say, on returning to Eastern Dispersal, the F700 was duly annotated to reflect the latest chapter in the fuel gauge saga.

[WIDN62]

NFF = Not Fxxxing Fixed!

When faced with repeated UTRFs we used to write in the 700 things like "After take-off ........"

[smujsmith]

Null,

"As the senior SVC for the trip (prior to the invention of the Ground Engineer)", a good post, but I'm sure that even you must realise that the Aircraft Ground Engineer was never invented, but a creation of logic and sensible thought. Now, I'm not trying to blow the GE trumpet (just for a change) so I will recount a trip I did, with an SVC, who "saved the day".

A Belize trip, diverted to return via Bermuda developed some pressurisation anomalies, and all the usual suspects proved to be sound. My SVC on the trip was an avionics SAC who had seen a similar problem back at LyneHenge, and offered his opinion. I struggle to remember it's name but just forward of the rear escape hatch was an antenna that had a pressure seal which was leaking (anyone know the antenna?). He suggested we send for a new seal and replace it, I had a can of half hour PRC, which I used to paint the inside of the whole of the antenna fit. It did the job on ground test, and the subsequent 12 hour leg back home. The SVC pointed the way, I reacted to the problem by ignoring the spares/delay route and getting Albert home. It may have been a different story had my SVC not been a Fairy, I could easily have missed the potential for that antenna to create a pressurisation problem.

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Null,
I seem to recall brake seal problems on the 'K' when going from hot Changi to freezing Kimpo. I have a recollection of hot air blowers being applied to said brakes. We used to take the Honour Guard up for changeover in Korea. I wonder if smudge arrived on the fleet before the wing mods made 'open line' refuelling impossible. We could not have gone to many of the small islands we did go to without the capability to overwing refuel. BGE (before Ground Eng) I have often helped the Air Eng to refuel over wing. And to operate the pump for the FSII additive.
The only open line refuelling after that was to fill the internal tanks on the tanker

[Null Orifice]

I forgot to mention the routine use of a hair dryer in cold places like Kimpo, Goosey Gander, etc when the nose oleo extension was zero after a stopover.

[smujsmith]

AA62 #3213,

Yes indeed, I started my life in the RAF at Colerne in 1971 after training as an Airframe apprentice at Halton. I was posted to White team, AES and spent my first year or so as part of a Base 3 (Major) Team. On its formation I was one of the first members of what the Station called Corrosion Control Team (CCT) know to us pond life as "tank rats". We worked a 4 day on 4 off 12 hour shift, doing nothing but polishing out the corrosion that was seemingly built in to the fuel tanks. I well remember on one occasion we removed the titanium heat shield, a protective sheet fitted to the wing, behind No3 Engine, and when we started to blend out a large patch of corrosion, the 30,000 rpm air grinder disappeared through the wing and in to the dry bay above. The over wing refuelling points were particularly useful as, when inside the tanks, it could become very warm and claustrophobic. We had a device called a Lamb Air Extractor, which was placed on the over wing refuelling point, attached to the 100 psi hangar air supply it created a suction within the tank, which then created an airflow, allowing some comfort. I was posted to Akrotiri in 73 so missed the replacement of the mainplanes, returning to HMs finest transport aircraft in 87 at Lyneham.

As an aside the ubiquitous NFF or UTRF was pretty much a non event for AGEs, any fault that could threaten the progress of a route was easily confirmed by inviting the GE to the flight deck, to witness the snag. It was also useful as the GE could power, consult technical manuals and land with a plan of action, or an Eng Rep requesting spares.:eek:

Smudge :ok:

[Mal Drop]

You know those weekends that people can go on and pretend they were in the forces ...

United Airlines passengers 'abandoned' in Goose Bay (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3123082/Nearly-200-angry-United-Airlines-passengers-abandoned-remote-barracks-Canada-20-HOURS-faulty-Chicago-London-flight-emergency-landing-crew-spend-night-comfy-hotel.html).

Apologies for Daily Fail link.

[smujsmith]

Mal Drop,

Never had a bad night stop at Goose. They should all consider themselves privileged in my humble opinion.

Smudge :rolleyes:

[ancientaviator62]

First time I went to Goose it was wall to wall with KC135 tankers. There was a USAF side (US dollars etc) and a Canadian side (Canadian dollars etc). All seemed very odd but we did requent the PX and the Class 6. Last time I was there Herbst Hall was subsiding slowly into the ground.
I can recall midwinter barbies in the snow ! How did the summer Blackfly ever survive the winter.

[smujsmith]

AA62,

Barbecues in the snow, the one I always remember was a Belize Schedule and getting stuck in Gander for 24 hours as they were having an election, and ATFOC missed the fact that everything stopped for elections. Thankfully one Fred Moffat occupied the territory at the time, and duly took us to his home to enjoy a barbecue. Giving us some shovels we were required to dig out his back yard, which was around 12 feet deep in snow, to give us a "feasting area", having done that, the festivities began. I know we left the next day, thankfully, my hammock only required minimal control inputs. ISTR that the temperature never rose above -16 degrees, but we all wore our shorts and T shirts destined for further use in Belize, it was a barbie after all.

Smudge :ok:

[Mal Drop]

Well Smudge, it seems that my memories of the place don't match yours, but I still don't see a need for the rolling-eyes twunticon.

[smujsmith]

Mal Drop,

Apologies if the icon causes offence, merely an attempt at humour regarding my enjoyment of night stops Goose Bay and the apparent experience of modern day civilian passengers. Perhaps I should refrain from posting anything using icons, I really don't like the thought of offending anyone I'm sure.

Smudge

[Dougie M]

What an aptly named Det that was. I would like to know the name of the "comfy" hotel the United crew stayed in, cos I can't think of one in Happy Valley. It was during the above named Det that Ksimboy, L** P***** and myself decided to save a few dollars and leg it from Trappers to the next bar through the snow in sub zero temps with a fierce wind chill. Although it was just a hundred yards or so I seriously believe that we wouldn't have made another 20. This was in parkas and not Caribbean beach wear. Before we had time to thaw out we were accosted by the Inuit party girls with the bear grease in the hair, demanding ciggies for the benefit of their company.
L** said very quietly "We are getting too old for this"
There are good times and not-so-good times anywhere, especially with TALCE.




http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/f66fe264-3c82-4341-b155-c095f11b24d2_zpsjeosl1yy.jpg.

[ksimboy]

Dougie, the wind chill only took it down to -45 i seem to recall. The TALCE days were happy times, apart from your sojourn with the AARC, at least i made up for it with your Scottac surprise present! The hotel opposite Trappers in Happy Valley was at one time quite pleasant to stay in, apart from the locals on Benefits day!

[ancientaviator62]

Gentlemen,
the problem with any form of non verbal/eye contact communication such as this thread is the inabilty to convey irony humour etc any any manner that is at all subtle. Emicons are at best a poor substitute and at worst the cause of many a misunderstanding. I for one never use them.
Keep the Goose /Gander stories coming.

[Brian W May]

One truism is that if you LOOK for offence, then you'll sure as Hell find it . . .

Nil Illegitimus Carborundum

[ancientaviator62]

Brian,
I have always thought that this thread has striven to conform to the legal dictum of 'uberrima fides' and that posters on this thread at least are not out to forment discord. In the absence of incontoverible evidence to the contrary IMHO this should be the default view.
We once struggled into Gander in atrocious conditions because the stripper was due to perform at the newly opened 'Albert Ross. Alas we were doomed to disappointment. She was stuck in St Johns due to the same WX !

[Brian W May]

See PM Bill

[kilwhang]

A couple of Goose stories..............

In the late 70's we were tasked to fly to Goose Bay and sit on the ground for 4 days - in January. The reason for the long stay has slipped my memory but we did the standard winter arrival........taxy up to the hangar, get towed straight in and close the doors behind us.

Because we were going to be there for a while, we had to do the full Cold Weather briefing. This consisted of going to a store room in the hangar to get issued with the full Extreme Weather Kit (parka, mukluks, etc) followed by a safety chat given by one of the staff - a Chief Tech.
He told us to put all the kit on then took us on a tour outside the hangar. Before we went through the door, I noticed that he licked his fingers and wet the front of his hair. Outside, in a temp of minus lots, he showed us the Emergency Hangar Entry Points, emergency phones and other places we could get assistance if we needed it. The walk-around took about 10 mins by which time we were feeling the effects of the cold. We then re-entered and the Chief Tech took off his gloves, reached up to his hair and broke off a piece of the frozen section. He said, 'Just imagine if that was your pubes'.
Point taken!


On another visit, we walked into the Sgts Mess bar around 19.30. There were a few guys in there including a large, well dressed, Canadian gentleman. He was as drunk as a lord and falling off his stool. At around 19.50 he staggered out saying he would be back in 20 mins. No-one seemed surprised by this so we asked where he was going. The barman said, 'I'll show you' and switched the TV to a news channel.
On the hour the Canadian Broadcasting Company (CBC) News was shown from Toronto then we were told to 'standby for the news bulletin from your part of Canada'. A message on the screen declared 'News from Labrador' and, to our astonishment, there was our drunk reading the news. For 5 mins he was word perfect then signed off. 10 mins later he was back in the bar, struggling to get on his stool.
The local TV studio was just along the tunnel from the Sgts Mess.

[smujsmith]

My Newfie Nemisis was always Gander,

Arriving for the B/F to find the brakes leaking because of the temperature, was but one of the regular occurrences during the winter months. I believe that I spent more time in the RAFLO's office than in the Albert Ross, during my winter visits. A small sample is as follows, no icons I promise Mal Drop;

I was dispatched with the 6A crew to convey a Propellor and prop change team to Bermuda, where the SAGE, one E* B****m, route checking a newly hatched GE had gone "Tits" ! Now this was January/February and bloody cold on arrival for our night stop Gander en route. The Prop change team were great in helping me put Albert to bed, and we enjoyed a night on the town, with stretchy soup at Vera's (Pizza Delight), and some serious "screeching in". Next morning on start, our extended stay began. Number 3 Prop decided to ditch all of its hydraulic oil just after start. The ambient temperature was -28 and the crew were soon back down at the hotel. ATFOC had no worries, there was a spare prop at Gander, and we had a prop change team on board. Off we went.

To be fair, the RAFLO was superb, he arranged not only hot soup, but also had a polythene tent erected on the front of No3, heated by a 4 therm trolley that kept us fairly warm (the temperature never exceeding -18) doing the reconnects etc. it was the longest prop change I have ever been involved in, taking 14 hours of us all working 20 minutes outside 20 minutes inside to warm up. At the end of the prop change we were ready for the ground runs, but neither the prop change team chief or myself were happy about doing a High Power ground run, on ice, after 14 hours. We called the Captain, and he, and the Eng were more than happy to come to our assistance. He drove Albert to an out of use runway, where we jumped out and bunged some chocks in. One HP ground run followed. A good result and we were hot to trot first thing next morning. It was interesting that on jumping out to recover the chocks we had slid forward, pushing the chocks at least 50ft on the icy runway. At least we had a driver Airframe to control any break out from the chocks. Both the BLSS chief and myself were glad we weren't in the LH seat for the run. By the time we had put Albert to bed, none of us were too bothered about a taxi ride to the hotel, so once again gratefully accepted some warming soup, and crashed out in the RAFLOs office for the night. The trip to Bermuda next day was routine, and the broken down crew took our aircraft back to Lyneham. The prop change went to plan and we were ready to go within 12 hours of arrival, the Hotel beckoned.

The next morning, imagine our surprise when No1 Prop (not the one changed) dumped its contents through the rear GITZ ........

You can imagine the rest chaps, we've all been there haven't we ? 3 more days of hell in Bermuda awaiting the arrival of a replacement rear GITZ seal.

Smudge

[ancientaviator62]

Brian,
you have a reply.

[ancientaviator62]

Null,
just picking up on your fuel gauge comments as I recall the early experience with those guages in the 'K' was interesting. Whilst I was on my 'K' OCU we had an engine wind down as we landed at Gib. Partly the fault of the student Air Eng but the gauges were as truthful as Pinoccio . As I recall the test equipment was either non existent or poorly calibrated and the groundcrew left to get on with it. We were instructed that a fuel tank had either to be full (and overwing visually checked) or empty when the a/c was refuelled.
This led to the set fuel loads with which we operated in the early days.
Oh yes and the 'twelve o'clock drop' !

[Alison Conway]

aa62,

How does a STUDENT get to be responsible for such a critical thing as an engine wind due to lack of fuel if he was being suitably screened?

[Brian W May]

Were you screening him then mate? :=

Seriously, I remember doing something similar in Norway when I was screening a new arrival to 47 Sqn. We ended up dipping the tank with the Bass Broom handle to see if there was fuel in there. There was about 4 inches - so not long. That was the time when people used to 'gloss over' the fuel reconciliation sums - something that became second nature when flying commercially (in my experience anyway).

Then you could play the internal transfer to FULL and then pump a measured amount out into other tanks to balance (on the serviceable gauges). Deep joy

The "mythical" 12'o'clock drop 1,000 lbs, yep remember it well.

[Alison Conway]

Brian,

I remember well how to move fuel. I did it often enough, as did we all. My comment was that if a STUDENT had caused an engine wind down by mishandling fuel why was he not corrected by a carefully monitoring screen.

[truckie]

Not just students. An Eng Leader produced a 4 engine 'rollback' for me during my time on the beast! Still no harm done eh :)

[ancientaviator62]

Alison C,
when I did the 'K' OCU your instructor had probably completed the course before you ! It applied to ALL the aircrew trades. No one knew much about the a/c at this time especially how many porkies the gauges could tell.
We had several OCU streams at Thorney all at the same time.
The learning curve for all was very steep.

[Brian W May]

Brian,

I remember well how to move fuel. I did it often enough, as did we all. My comment was that if a STUDENT had caused an engine wind down by mishandling fuel why was he not corrected by a carefully monitoring screen.

I'm sure you remember humour too . . . (or perhaps you don't). I was pulling your leg. As an ex Flight Safety Officer too, I particularly understand the point you were making - THAT's why I was pulling your leg.

The 'method' was for other readers, not ex FEs.

Oh dear . . . :ugh:

Perhaps I'll give this thread a miss, it's getting a bit too intense.

[fergineer]

Now then you two old buggers settle down or I will have to deal with you both, dunno how but maybe just the threat will work.

[smujsmith]

Heh heh, steady on Fergie, I reckon it's a small discrepancy, which can be easily overcome with a small transfer of liquid or two :O.

Smudge :ok:

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Gosh... a small transfer of liquid! Ooo err!


TCF

[ancientaviator62]

I think the 'misunderstanding' between our two learned Air Engineers rather proves the point of my #3224.
Perhaps we can move on on and hope for more tales about the fuel gauges or indeed any other technical peccadiloes of the 'K'.

[smujsmith]

Back on topic then AA62,

And a query from a techie. I was informed, long ago, and probably in a bar somewhere down route, that the autopilot fit on the K was actually obtained from the Vulcan fleet, and not an original Lockheed fit at all. Anyone know the truth of this, or indeed what changes were required to accommodate changes in operating speed range etc, must have been a big difference between the "Tin Triangle" and Albert.

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Smudge,
the Smiths autopilot on the 'K' was one of the many UK supplied items of kit. From whence it came I know not but for a good time in the early days of the 'K' it was not cleared for use ! Hence on the longer routes we all took turns at 'poling' the beast. I recall being shown ADF sets with BOAC Speedbird stickers so that kit at least was secondhand. The i/c system was UK sourced also. I am sure that the learned posters on this thread can supply more details.

[OmegaV6]

For AA then .. quick tale regarding fuel gauges .... when the fleet was "metricised" (?) and we went from those simple "lbs"(where we all knew the numbers by instinct) to those weird "kgs" things ... a day was set aside as "metric day" .. a Sunday I recall .. idea being no flying from Thursday PM until Monday AM to give the lines time to do their work.

Late Saturday morning .. 6B call out to take a frame to Washington as a high priority load carrier had gone U/S. Arrive at the line to be told the metrication was just being finished .. phone the front end in planning to tell them to get all the metric pages out and not the "normal" ones... they don't have them ....so Captain draws keys to the squadron and we all meet there to ensure we all have the new paperwork to hand. Eventually get to the frame and start the preflight. Get to the fuel part and I CANNOT reconcile the fuel .. no matter what I do it will not add up correctly to what we want/need in kgs... call out the line and they also cannot get it to add up, although the maths on the F725 appeared correct ... lots of head scratching as there was obviously an error that none of us could see........

Now, for those that don't know.. the actual "mod" simply involved sticking some transparent circles (transfers) with the new markings/quantities over the old gauges ... proper gauges were a very long way away!! .... It was then decided by the SEngO that the only way to sort this problem, and avoid further delay, was to rip off all the "new" transfers, get the fuel load right using "lbs" .. then put a new set of transfers on. So that's what we did.. and half way through realised the problem .... whoever had done the first set had put the auxiliary tank transfers on the external tank gauges and vice-versa .. no wonder it didn't add up !! New set of transfers and off we went !! I believe "questions were asked" about the supervision of the "mod" installation after that!

As an extra ... (and for some stupid reason I think Fergie might have been involved ??) ... the shock and horror of the crew in Washington when they found out they were operating a "metric" Herk home was a sight to see ... we all did a quick swap of documents .. as we would now be taking the "non-metric" frame home once fixed.

I hated the metric numbers.. they never made sense to me and I never managed to memorise them like I had the old "lbs" ... which even after several years I can still recall instantly..

[kilwhang]

Why on earth did they change to kgs?

[Doobry Firkin]

Omega, I was in washington doing the Prop change on that U/S frame - once we changed the prop during the ground runs the FCU gave up the ghost a 2 day trip turned into a week.

Nothing better than doing ground runs at the end of the runway at Dullas International all i could see behind the frame was a line of landing lights from the aircraft on approach.

I do believe that frame was the last one to 'go metric'.

[smujsmith]

Omega,

What fun that must have been, and thankfully, I was well gone by the time Albert was metricised. I have, on refuels down route had to convert US Gallons, Kgs and Ltrs to lbs after a refuel, and seldom had much trouble, but being an old school Englishman I reckon I would have bother with the set up you describe. Perhaps it shows my age when I still ask the butcher for weights in Lbs and Ounces !! Who said Dinosaur?

Smudge :ok:

[ExAscoteer]

Back on topic then AA62,

And a query from a techie. I was informed, long ago, and probably in a bar somewhere down route, that the autopilot fit on the K was actually obtained from the Vulcan fleet, and not an original Lockheed fit at all.
Smudge :ok:

I don't know from where the Smiths autopilot was sourced Smuj, but I can say that we had exactly the same bit of kit in the Dominie as well.

[ExAscoteer]

Why on earth did they change to kgs?

When did they change to Kgs?

(Stupid French measurement.)

[smujsmith]

ExAscoteer, thanks for the info on the Dom. Having a look around the web, the only info I can come up with is this, from Hansard circa 1965, when the government was asked what British equipment they were intending to fit to the new aircraft;


The list of British equipment to be installed in the C.130K is as follows:

Equipment Manufacturer
Clock Mk.5 B Smiths Aviation Division
Indicator, Airspeed Mk.l5 C Smiths Aviation Division
Radio Set, P.T.R. 175 The Plessey Company Ltd.
Command radio set, AD. 160 Marconi Company Ltd.
Intercommunication equipment UA.60 Ultra Electronics Ltd.
Cabin address system, UA.578 Ultra Electronics Ltd.
Radio compass, AD.360 Marconi Company Ltd.
Marker beacon receiver, AD.260 Marconi Company Ltd.
Glide-slope receiver, AD.260 Marconi Company Ltd.
Navigation system, AD.260 Marconi Company Ltd.
Doppler 62 M Decca Navigator Co. Ltd.
Computer navigational, 9476 Decca Navigator Co. Ltd.
Roller map Mk.4 C, display head Type 9275 Decca Navigator Co. Ltd.
Weather radar, E.290 Ecko Electronics Ltd.
Decca Navigator Mk.1 (Air) with Flight Log Decca Navigator Co. Ltd.
Radio Altimeter STR 54 B Standard Telephones and Cables Ltd.
Periscopic sextant Mk.2 A Smiths Aviation Division
Radar set IFF, Mk.10 Cossor Ltd.
Autopilot, Mk.10 A Smiths Aviation Division
Side guidance equipment, Mk.2(b) Hawker Siddeley Aviation Ltd.
Aperture covers H. K. Porter Ltd.

Now there's a list of stuff to be reckoned with. As for the autopilot, the Smiths Mk10a was certainly fitted to the Vulcan and Victor, as well as the Mk10b. I wonder if the 10a's were replaced on the V bombers with b's to release the a's for Albert. Someone will know.

Smudge :ok: