Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules

[CoffmanStarter]

Ken ...

Here you go :ok:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS2jodGlb68

[smujsmith]

Coff,

You little beauty, I've been looking for that vid for ages. Thanks.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Absolutely my pleasure Smudge :ok:

Brian 48nav ... Looks like we've managed to obtain a copy of the Air Clues article you mentioned at #2477 and #2480 ... I'm in 2 Way with Nimman and will post idc :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

[Kengineer-130]

Thanks Coff thats fantastic :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

With the the help of our good friend Nimman ... Here is the Air Clues article mentioned by Brian.

Entitled "With the Services North of Eighty Three" by F/O Bruce Reid.

Expedition dated April 1969 ... Supported by RAF Albert :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJan70P126_zps2fbdc4a8.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJan70P127_zpsd54127ba.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJan70P128_zps8a7b898b.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJan70P129_zpsb43c90ca.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJan70P130_zps172a4651.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJan70P131_zps39cf5033.jpg

Source & Image Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues Jan 1970 (Pages 126 to 131)

Fascinating story with RAF Albert supporting ... however seemingly not Wally Herbert's Trans-Arctic Expedition ... so did RAF Albert support that Expedition ... more head scratching needed I think :confused:

It would be great if any of the crews involved with North83 Supply Drops could add more to this story.

Best ...

Coff.

[Brian 48nav]

Well done, a very interesting article, but in my mind's eye I can see a photo' looking into the back of a Herc' and Mike Nash and a Sqn Ldr nav' can be clearly seen. The name Barrow leaped into my mind before I Googled Wally Herbert.


Mike was one of the first pilot trappers and having just completed an exchange tour on the C130 with the USAF prior to their entry into RAF service, it seems to me that it was the sort of task, fairly early on in RAF Herc' days, that would have had his name written all over it.

[CoffmanStarter]

Brian ...

Nimman mentioned that he had other Air Clues from that period ... I believe he is going to see if there are anymore Herc articles for us :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

[Brian W May]

I was the Eng on the flight that picked up Wally Herbert from Mesters Vig (if memory serves) and an expedition from Oxbridge Uni.

I would have to plunder my logbooks to find the date, frame and skipper.

[Shackman]

And no mention of the 1952-53 expedition (I know - thread drift) supported by Sunderlands and a Hastings (which also ended up on the ice - yet another story).

[gopher01]

The quote that they were lucky to have a Spanish speaking engineer on board was slightly wide of the mark, as the engineer was the ground engineer, who could speak Spanish as I think his mother was Spanish and was allocated to the route for that precise reason. I can't remember his name, the little grey cell is a bit dodgy at times, but the report that came back to the G,Es varied a little from the stories already given, in that the bit about the mob and grenades is as I remember it given to us as was the line about being short of fuel. The extra info was that the mob were told that the aircraft needed to taxi to another location to refuel and to do that they needed to start engines but only needed two to taxi so they wouldn't be able to take off. The crew door was also left partly open on the alternate loop on the support cable to further convince people they would only be taxying but as has been said they jumped the chocks and as they drew away a bit from the crowd started the outboards on the hoof, closed the crew door and legged it rapidly.

[smujsmith]

Hi Gopher, hope you are well.

Your grey cell sits happily with those events, as I heard them. I had a certain P**e C***in down as the GE in question, but he may have come along later. There must be someone who follows the thread who knows for sure. Thanks for stirring some old memories, and keep that grey cell ticking.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Brian 48nav, Brian W May ...

Gents ...

Thanks to our good friend Nimman I believe we have our Eureka moment with Wally Herbert's Trans-Artic Expedition. Not to mention Brian 48nav's memory :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACMar68FrontCover2_zpsb5c97325.jpg

Source Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues March 1968 (Front Cover) : Photographer SAC Peter Shirley.

Looking on somewhat apprehensively as part of the cargo is loaded at Thule are Sqn Ldr M Nash, Captain of a Hercules from RAF Lyneham, Engineer Flt Lt RT Maltby and Navigator Sqn Ldr AD McGregor. The huskies were part of a 40 strong contingent weighing 3,700 lbs which were being loaded with 30,000 lbs of other stores for the British Trans-Arctic Expedition fitting out at Point Barrow in Alaska. The Expedition was preparing for its 3,800 mile trek on foot and by sledge from Point Barrow across the North Pole to Spitzbergen. SAC Peter Shirley (HQASC) who took this picture reports that there was some interesting husky disputes en route at 30,000 feet !

So I reckon the above pic must match up with the images I posted at #2469 ... but I draw the line at trying to ID the pooch :}

Best ...

Coff.

PS. Many thanks again Nimman ... your interest and help is greatly appreciated :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

I'll just mention that Nimman has also forwarded a number of other interesting articles from Air Clues relating to the early days of RAF Albert's service life ... If it's OK with everyone ... I'll feed these in over the next week or so ;)

Best ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

OK ... Maybe a little taster for you Gents who served with RAF Albert out in the FEAF :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJan68rearcover_zps7dbef665.jpg

Source Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues Jan 1968 (Rear Cover).

Best ...

Coff.

[Brian W May]

My Mesters Vig pickup was in the 70s (late I think), we also had (is it) Tom Norcross with us as he'd done Arctic Exped stuff before.

We had the aircraft Strip Prepped as the Mesters Vig runway was gravel and that was done at either Sondrestrom or Thule (without the logbook trawl, I don't remember). I think it was a 30 Sqn trip but may have been OCU, again don't remember without looking it up.

Coff . . . how old do you think I AM ??? :ok:

September 8th 1978, XV299 Dave Noon as one of the Captains, Dixon being the other and it was Sondrestrom.

[CoffmanStarter]

Nimman has unearthed some really interesting Air Clues material dating back to the early days of RAF Albert. Rather than just dump it all in one go ... I thought a bit of a quiz might go down well :ok:

OK ... Here are some clues associated with a few articles about RAF Albert ... who can guess the main topic covered ... I'll then post the full article ;)

Clue 1 : Why might W/C Spry (irreverently) suggest a Herc Navigator might need to wear a Ball & Chain ?

Clue 2 : What is going on here ?

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ScreenShot2015-02-19at155723_zps470e32a3.png

Clue 3 : Who were Hephaestus and Horatius (not in the literal sense) ?

Best ...

Coff.

[MPN11]

Ah, memories of Air Marshal Sir Rochford Hughes, KBE, CBE, AFC, who ended up [as did most of the Top Table] with a pink tropical Mess Kit after on of the 20 Sqn mates popped a red smoke grenade under the top table at a Dining In night at Tengah.

I never got the impression that he liked Tengah very much, preferring the more tranquil halls of Changi. But I gained the impression that Tengah wasn't much impressed by him either.

A thin Wiki CV for a C-in-C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochford_Hughes)
And this is not much more substantial (http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Hughes_SWR.htm)

[dragartist]

Coff, May I please have the first stab at your competition?


I think it may be Smudge giving lessons on prop alignment.


The guy who was responsible for the middle one failed.


Can't wait to find out what happens when you pull the strings.


drag.

[CoffmanStarter]

Many thanks Jenkins & Drag for having a go at the quiz ... here are the articles to which my clues related.

Clue 1 : Why might W/C Spry (irreverently) suggest a Herc Navigator might need to wear a Ball & Chain ?

Well ... It would appear that there was some early concern with the astrodome should rapid decompression occur at altitude ... "Herky bird Navigators for the UK space programme" indeed :eek:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACMay67P278letterrefastrodomes_zps92e07e43.jpg

Clue 2 : What is going on here ?

All part of the Hercules Servicing School set-up ... I'm sure our good friend Smudge will add more when he drops in for a chat :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJul74pg390_zpsc959938d.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJul74pg391_zpse14c50f8.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJul74pg392_zps523b991a.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJul74pg393_zps480b12d0.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACJul74pg394_zpse0041959.jpg

Clue 3 : Who were Hephaestus and Horatius (not in the literal sense) ?

An interesting piece about LXX Squadron ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACApr71pg248_zps5388a98e.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACApr71pg249_zpse48b97e9.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ACApr71pg250_zpse34d9a16.jpg

Source Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues (Dates May 67, Apr 71 and Jul 74)

Best ...

Coff.

PS. More from me and Nimman IDC :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Playing the pedant the 'astrodome' was nothing of the sort. It was an observation dome allegedly so the Force Commander could view the 'fleet'.
Thet were removed in the from all the fleet only for certain airframes to have them refitted later for specialised roles..
For Astro a periscopic sextant was used and I am sure Brian or nimbev can explain further.

[CoffmanStarter]

Good to have you back AA62 :ok:

The beers are on S/L Appleyard ;)

[Null Orifice]

I recognise some of the faces in the Ground School photos, especially that of my former colleague from A-line H---- D----, pictured in the 'giant flight director' shot. We were on the same shift (when HD was not (1) down-route, (2) on stand-down following a route trip, or (3) in bed in his AMQ!!).

We shared some common ground down the route, too - an incident combining fluctuating RPM on No 2, his falling out with the captain on his swan-song (the captain's) and a long trip for me, via Air Canada;) springs to mind.
The four days in Ottawa were best forgotten, especially the 'dry Sunday' on the wrong side of the river.

[ancientaviator62]

Coffman,
have been suffering from the flu so head even more woolly than usual !

[dragartist]

Interestingly the sextant housing AA62 mentions was the same as that on the Lancaster. (and several other flying machines I worked on). I loose track of time but it was probably 2004/5 Chelton Electrostatics devised a GPS aerial that went into the housing.

[November4]

Back at Albert's former home...

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/resources/images/3554910.jpg?display=1&htype=0&type=mc2

HERE’S the latest work going on at the former RAF Lyneham airbase as work continues to turn the site into a 83 hectare solar farm.

The aerial images have been submitted by reader Matthew Williams.

The farm, approved at the end of last year by Wiltshire Council, will take up an area greater than 100 football pitches when it is complete and consist of around 160,000 solar panels.

It will have the capacity to generate 40MW of power which will be enough to supply the Defence College of Technical Training which is set to open at the former base in November.

It is thought that the farm will also be able to generate enough surplus power to fuel around 10,000 homes with electricity.

“The use of solar energy to power the college reinforces MoD’s commitment to the use of renewable energy sources,” said Steve Jeffries, principal project manager for DIO, who are overseeing the project.

“By bringing together training in one place we are not only improving efficiency but also helping to save money for the taxpayer by rationalising the Defence estate.”

Swindon Advertiser (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/11808903.Bird___s_eye_view_of_former_airbase_solar_farm/?ref=fbshr)

[Brian W May]

That just looks plain WRONG . . .

[bingofuel]

And very sad to see.....

[ancientaviator62]

A few posts ago we were discussing the carriage of four legged SLF in the 'K'.
On the Sri Lankan Air Force website there is a video of two elephants (in crates !) being loaded on a Sri Lankan Herc. They were on their way to Prague Zoo. Sri Lanka has two a/c I believe both ex RAF 'K' models but which serial numbers I know not. Cue Coffman and his forensic skills.
There is a suggestion that they backloaded some equally exotic animals back to Sri Lanka.
Must have been an interesting and smelly trip.

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ... I need to double check ... But I believe they are ex RAF XV203 and XV213 :ok:

Coff.

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
having some experience of the tanker and the overload weights it regularly operated at I would not have bought XV 203 ! But fair play it still seems to be doing the job for them.

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ... I think we've got the correct frames :ok:

More info here with some pics (click details link) ...

Sri Lanka Air Force C-130s (http://www.c-130.net/aircraft-database/C-130/serials-and-inventory/airforce/SLAF/)

And here is the Elephant and other Animal PAX Video link ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cMAjh89W49c

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KN9HDIdFIrU

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
thanks for that. I have just noticed that their Hercs are minus the external tanks. Not needed for the usual internal routes I suppose.

[DCThumb]

I remember flying through Colombo many years ago, carrying a trainee IntO who was given a camera and told to take pictures of anything interesting he saw. He was wetting himself with excitement at 'spotting' the Sri Lankans new purchases and was frantically trying to find a location to take a subversive picture......meanwhile at the other end of the aircraft, our GE was talking to an Ex-RAF engineer working for the Sri Lankans on the delivery of these aircraft.

Said IntO very disappointed some days later when we let the cat out of the bag and told him the identity of the airframes and that I had many hours flying both!!!

[CoffmanStarter]

DCThumb :D:D:D:D

[CoffmanStarter]

Something a little odd here ?

I came across this pic on the C-130.net recently ... but there is something a bit odd about it. The pic purports to be a Crown image of RAF aircrew posing for a group shot after the last C-130K operational sortie on October 25, 2013. However, up close, it appears to be a composite image ? The aircrew look as though they have been superimposed on a different background (aircraft) and even some aircrew have the appearance of being added ?

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/13717289663_3f54b1ebbd_o_zps90d83edf.jpg

Image Credit : Purports to be a Crown Image

Is it just me or do other members think the same ?

If so ... does anyone know the story here ... there has to be a reason for going to such photographic lengths :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

And an image that I thought we must just include in our Thread ... The first of many arriving at RAF Thorney Island all those years ago ;)

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/B0F3FaZCcAIr_wxjpg-large_zpsd4b3777e.jpg

Image Credit : Crown

Coff.

PS. More Air Clues coming up ...

[Brian W May]

Aaaargh . . . no! A Yellow Peril!

God I still remember trying to start those bloody things to drag a power set out for engine runs at Colerne's Fosse-Way Air Force.

Single cylinder diesel and vibrating like a nun's dormitory . . .

[ancientaviator62]

Coffman,
ref the 'last flight pic' you may well have a point but I am sure that someone may be able to give a definitive answer.
Very nice pic of some very shiny new 'K's at Thorney Island.
My pics have finally run out but when I get most of the flu out of my memory cell I have a story of a trip in a not so shiny a/c.

[Alison Conway]

Brian,

I had an official towing licence for the yellow peril, in order to tow Wessex helicopters at Tengah ('72-'75) from the 1st line (by the golf club) to Hangar 2 (our 2nd line shed) on the other side of the runway. If you were practiced enough (and I was) you could walk alongside it and then hop on and sit on the engine being careful not to drop the steering arm or the brakes would apply. It was a fair old walk across the runway, but if the tower spotted you sitting on the "donkey" then according to them you were not in full control and an interview with the WO man awaited you on return. As the Wessex was a "taildragger" you could get a really serious turning circle with a "donkey" and that was required to park them in our strange 3 sided big "tent" that passed for 1st line repairs storage. Ah the days..........

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/HERCALMCSE0002_zps420e7076.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/HERCALMCSE0002_zps420e7076.jpg.html)
Found this pic in the pages of my course notes ! The heading is the attribution for the pic. These were the official pics at the start of the course of the AQMs on 8 course at Thorney Island.
You may recognise some of them.

[CoffmanStarter]

Very smart AA62 :ok:

A question if I may ... maybe it's just the pic or the fold in your uniform sleeve ... but I don't see any Aircrew Chevron Eagles (likewise with the two chaps to your left) ?

[smujsmith]

Allison Conway,

I had a licence for the "yellow peril" too, and Like Brian May, often towed Paloustes, Houchins and even OC admins car across the "Fosse Way" airbase. Some great stuff coming through now all, it was interesting to see how the Ground training school, which eventually became HEMS ((Hercules Engineering Maintenance School) developed. I well remember "Luv and kisses" at Akronelli in 71-73, where I was fortunate to deploy to Malta on a 56 Sqdn Air defence exercise by Hanaidi I believe, our return on the whistling tit introduced me to another type operated by a great transport squadron. I'm sorry I'm a bit "in and out" at the moment, I have a few bits and bobs going on. Finally, I'm now about halfway through Exocet Falklnds, and what a good read it is, having had the pleasure of working with some of the major participants in the book, I am rapidly approching the conclusion that my own impressions from my day are valid, they were bonkers !! Keep it coming gentlemen, there's some great Albert related stuff out there.

Smudge:ok:

[November4]

Something a little odd here ?

I came across this pic on the C-130.net recently ... but there is something a bit odd about it. The pic purports to be a Crown image of RAF aircrew posing for a group shot after the last C-130K operational sortie on October 25, 2013. However, up close, it appears to be a composite image ? The aircrew look as though they have been superimposed on a different background (aircraft) and even some aircrew have the appearance of being added ?

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/13717289663_3f54b1ebbd_o_zps90d83edf.jpg

Image Credit : Purports to be a Crown Image

Is it just me or do other members think the same ?

If so ... does anyone know the story here ... there has to be a reason for going to such photographic lengths :ok:

Coff that is the same photo that appears on 17 of the Global Gateway (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbrizenorton/rafcms/mediafiles/FEDC22D7_5056_A318_A8A402E907035014.pdf)

I think that the Hercules.net has used the photo but sharpened it to make it clearer and in doing so made it look a bit suspicious.

[ancientaviator62]

Coffman,
yes it does look is my eagles are missing but I cannot think of any reason why that should be. Perhaps the camera does lie or at least mislead in this instance.

[ancientaviator62]

One point about my pic of the Herc ALMs on 8 course. We were all retreads from the Beverley and Hastings fleets.

[CoffmanStarter]

November4, AA62 ...

Many thanks gents :ok:

November4 ...

Adding the link to Global Gateway is a great bonus ... a nice potted history of the K along with individual frames :D

Interestingly I too had a recollection over the weekend of a Herc pic from the mid 70's which I think was in the Flight Safety Review publication ... with a 'bent' wing ... so coming up next (as I managed to find the pic on the web) XV181.

Best ...

Coff.

PS. More Air Clues material later today ;)

[CoffmanStarter]

As mentioned above ... I remembered seeing at least one of these pics in the Flight Safety Review publication back in the late 70's. Spookily I came across these pics when doing a sport of other research for this Thread. I can't remember the article detail but I believe this was a 'Landing Mishap' at Thorney Island circa 1975.

Interestingly XV181 continued in service until Mar 2003 when we sold her to the Austrians and she is now sporting 8T-CA as a serial.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/IMG_1048_zpsm1xgavyi.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/IMG_1047_zpsobsoad0r.jpg

Image Credit : Unknown

And 8T-CA as she is now ... love the flag :D

C-130K 8T-CA Austrian Air Force (http://www.planes.cz/en/photo/1110640/c130k-8t-ca-austrian-air-force-zeltweg-loxz/)

Coff.

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
should XV 818 be XV 218 ?

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ...

I'm reasonably certain that it's XV181 ... just found another pic from a different angle ... you can just make out 181 on the nose (on the larger pic at least).

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Screen%20Shot%202015-02-25%20at%2010.25.02_zpsyy0tzbyo.png

Image Credit : Unknown (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bygonetymes/6494994995/)

Coff.

PS. AA62 ... Sorry I just noticed my keyboard dyslexia in typing 818 and not 181 :uhoh: It seems you were afflicted likewise with 218 ;)

[CoffmanStarter]

Pull your chairs up everyone ... story time ;)

[Wander00]

"Are you sitting comfortably. then he'll begin"

[Brian 48nav]

That's the photo I recall! SWMBO says how come I can remember trivia from the sixties and not what happened this morning!


In #2514 I recognise a skipper, then Flt Lt Ed Carter later Sqn ldr, on the left - next to him is a nav' Ken Foster. I cycled over to Ken's house in the Gers about 6 years ago when resident in France. Next to Ken could be Sqn ldr 'Andy' Andrusikiewicz, apart from Rochford-Hughes and Merriman I'm struggling to recognise the others.


I recall being told that Rochford-Hughes had taxied a Sunderland several hundred miles across the Atlantic back to base during WW2.


Being the youngest nav' on 48 I was regularly 'joe'd' to be the nav' when the trappers came to examine the staish, Grp Capt Merriman and also when the latter demonstrated the joys of the Herc' to AOA, AVM Peter le Cheminant - all the old hairies dived out of the window when the flying programme was published!

[smujsmith]

Coff,

Nice captures on 181, and what can anyone expect when a bunch of aircrew get let loose with one of HM's finest examples of aloominum constructitude. Come on Doug, let's hear how it ended thus, or do we have to plumb the depths of the interweb?

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
your diagnosis of us both is correct. Keyboard dyslexia !
The story of the airframe 'mods' in the pic from Thorney as best I can recall.
It was a co-pilots landing and the a/c got away from him before the captain could react. The wing struck the runway and the number four prop did like wise. Parts of the blade penetrated the fuselage narrowly missing the loadmaster. I am sure someone out there can put more flesh on these bare bones.

[CoffmanStarter]

Good to have you 'connected' and back with us again Brian 48nav :ok:

Being the youngest nav' on 48 I was regularly 'joe'd' to be the nav' when the trappers came to examine the staish, Grp Capt Merriman and also when the latter demonstrated the joys of the Herc' to AOA, AVM Peter le Cheminant - all the old hairies dived out of the window when the flying programme was published!

Now we can't let you simply get away in saying that without a story ;)

[CoffmanStarter]

More from the Air Clues archive provided by Nimman :ok:

I'm turning the clock back now to Aug 65 (which according to Bian 48nav's wife he should remember well !) ... Prior to Albert entering service with the RAF the Directorate of Flight Safety published a 'brief' list of incidents/accidents encountered by our USAF colleagues. You'll note W/C Spry's 'reassuring' comments ... along with the fairly 'dismissive' comment at the prospect of the RN 'borrowing some of our aircraft'.

Very interesting ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Aug65%20pg380%20USAF%20Herc%20accidents_zps4k2haizx.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Aug65%20pg381_zps8lxqxf2q.jpg

Source Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues Aug 1965 (Pages 380 to 381)

Coff.

PS. More later today ...

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
many thanks for the Air Clues pages. Thankfully by the time we got the 'K' the side opening cargo door had been discontinued. If you removed the insulation blanket it was NOT sound proofing) forward of the Utility hydraulic system you could still see the outline of where it would have been.
We did have crew entrance door issues but never lost one in flight.

[Captain Sensible]

I remember this day well - we were watching from the QFI's crewroom; it was exercise CP4 - co-pilot's asymmetric training, (when we used to shut down engines for real for practice, how foolish we were). They came in a bit fast and got into a "porpoise" from which the QFI couldn't recover. The fire situation was exacerbated by the then "long grass policy" to keep the birds away, never really worked, and the long dry grass burned merrily. We were amazed when XV181 was rebuilt, and there it is now with the Austrians! I felt so sorry for the instructor, and I believe the Asymmetric training policy may have changed after this, can't really remember.

[CoffmanStarter]

As promised ... more from the Air Clues archive :ok:

Still staying with the mid 60's and prior to Albert entering service with the RAF, in addition to learning from USAF's experiences, it would appear we also worked with our RAAF and RNZAF colleagues given their developing experience with the Hercules.

Here is an interesting article written by an un-named RAF Exchange Officer posted to 36 Squadron RAAF.

Note that the article quotes the RAF expecting to receive the C-130E at that time.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Jun65%20pg292%20RAAF%20Hercs%20Exch%20Off_zpsw8znksxh.j pg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Jun65%20pg293_zpsenclk9z9.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Jun65%20pg294_zps4kdy33be.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Jun65%20pg295_zpswitnuxom.jpg

Source Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues Jun 1965 (Pages 292 to 295)


Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

I have an inkling that this article will be very relevant to one of our regular Thread members/contributors ;)

Clearly keen to demonstrate the versatility of the 'new' RAF Hercules, I suspect opportunities to support prestigious expeditions were welcomed by the Service (if not by the poor chaps then tasked !).

Here is an article written by W/C D le R Bird on the Cambridge University 'Staunings Expedition' of 1970.

If I'm not mistaken ... pic Page 166 ... that looks like one of those old Clement Clarke 'Wire' Headsets being worn down the back ... I bet that was a bit cold with the ramp down :uhoh:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Feb71%20pg%20164%20Polar%20Routine%20Trainer_zpscwsrnh8 w.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Feb71%20pg165_zpsw0tfhdcl.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Feb71%20pg166_zpspnu1mk3v.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Feb71%20pg167_zpsnuiqzv8c.jpg


Source Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues Feb 1971 (Pages 164 to 167)

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

OK ... Enough for today :ok:

Still more to come ...

So just to close off ... here is a little competition clue to an Air Clues article yet to come. Who can guess what the subject is ?

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Screen%20Shot%202015-02-26%20at%2014.44.04_zpseeejmfhm.png

'Why was Carlsberg important to these Gentlemen in the early Summer of 1977 ... probably' :}

Coff.

[Double Hydco]

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag21/belfast97/Sinbads_zpslfaweksk.jpg

Anyone remember Sinbads, Gander? I took this whilst flying another (former) RAF four turboprop queen of the skies, but assume Albert night stopped there on occasion?

DH

[NutLoose]

I took this whilst flying another (former) RAF four turboprop queen of the skies

Blimey at that altitude I think I'd be concentrating on the flying :p

Yep stayed there :)

[WE992]

Just once or thrice!

[ksimboy]

Not nearly enough snow! Remember walking from Sinbads to Reflections one night for a Caribbean evening, free beer if you turned up in Caribbean kit. Crew did the walk in shorts and flip flops, OAT - 18 ho hum. Beer was free. Taxi back tho!

[ancientaviator62]

Ah Sinbads and the 'Albert Ross'. Thankfully walls cannot talk !

[ancientaviator62]

When I was on Hastings we once walked back to Widenrath from Wassenberg after a Rosenmontag festival. Only the anti freeze properties of the alcohol in the system prevemted mass hypothermia !

[Top Bunk Tester]

Always seemed to be an enduring smell of curry in Sinbad's, think some of the 'foreign' crews used to cook it up in there.

[ancientaviator62]

The Cubans used to use Gander for crew training and I think most of the cooking smells could be attributed to them.

[Brian W May]

Being on HCS, I got to Glander quite regularly - year round.

In the Albert Ross, I asked for a Moose Steak (Seasonal), during every season, including a Menu reprint.

Eventually I asked the Manager why I could never get one and he replied that they'd not got it on the menu as it was disapproved of. When I pointed out it was on the 'new' menu, he just looked at me . . .

Did anyone manage a Moose Steak in Glander (anywhere)?

[CoffmanStarter]

I hope you don't mind ... But I just couldn't resist looking Sinbad's and the Albatross up on Trip Advisor ...

Sinbad's Hotel and Suites Gander (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g182153-d1102285-Reviews-Sinbad_s_Hotel_and_Suites-Gander_Newfoundland_Newfoundland_and_Labrador.html)

Albatross Motel-Gander (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g182153-d182727-Reviews-Albatross_Motel-Gander_Newfoundland_Newfoundland_and_Labrador.html)

;)

Coff.

[Double Hydco]

I was told that the Cuban's had burnt their previous crew hotel in Gander down while cooking in the room?

DH

[aeroid]

Ref Post 2558. Interesting article in Air Clues about other peoples troubles. The paragraph describing the loss of the forward cargo door I think happened to an Australian aircraft commanded by one of our Captains on exchange. It was over 40 years ago when my then boss at Colerne (Air Test) told me the story and I believe that the Captain received the AFC or something similar.

[nimbev]

Please excuse the thread drift, but the pictures of 181 sitting on the grass and the mention of doors falling off reminded me of an earlier incident at Thorney Island.

Co-pilot training sortie early in the Bev course. Fg Off B***** makes a landing and all the tyres on the port side burst. Bits of wheel and fixed undercarriage and sponsons are strewn down the runway and we come to a halt across the intersection not only closing the Master Diversion, but blocking the road to the Mess so that the chaps are late for their lunch.
Bemused silence on board the aircraft. Staff captain yells at the student crew to move their asses and get out. Co-pilot is first down the stairs, he has never opened the door before as that is usually done by the Loady but he is doing something more important (?). Co-pilot sees a yellow and black striped handle and pulls it - jettisoning the door just as the first of the firemen arrives 10 foot below it. Co-pilot hurt pride, fireman hurt all over!

In spite of his heart rending denials, Co-pilot gets the blame as he 'obviously' landed with his toes on the brakes. Whole thing would have gone down as pilot error except the same thing happens to Fg Off S******* a few days later on another co-pilot training sortie. Bit too much of a coincidence so Eng Wg do a proper investigation this time and discover a faulty batch of maxarets had recently been delivered from the MU. Two very relieved co-pilots.:ok:

[smujsmith]

Sinbads, my first ever night stop as a GE after completing the course. My "minder" explained the pervasive smell of cooking coming from the room corridors as Air Cubana trying to save money on crew meals. I was introduced to Aunty Vera, Pizza Delight, stretchy soup and a pizza with extra anchovies. Ksimboy, I have a vague memory of doing a night out in flip flops and shorts in about 8 feet of minus 15 snow. Was I your GE ? The best night was the dance night at the Albert Ross, a local band and local ladies with a sense of humour. I well remember being an Australian sheep purchaser on a buying tour, attracting attention from a couple of "local ladies" as something that was not the "usual" Herk crew. Happy days, and always a good night stop.

From a GE point of view, I do remember arriving back at Lyneham around 1800 local one evening, after a night stop Gander, to find that I was down for an 0600 departure the next morning for a refuel Prestwick, night stop Gander. On the way over I was enjoying a coffee and chat on the flight deck, our Captain said he was looking forward to the trip as he hadn't been across the pond for three months. I had a laugh explaining that from my cross oddled brain I had left there only a few hours before. The screech and coke was the first drink the barman poured that night, before anyone ordered a drink. Happy daze.

Smudge:ok:

[ksimboy]

Smuj, you may well have been,we had been to Eglin the previous night. Both ALMs invited to leave a gentlemens club, which was a first.

[ancientaviator62]

Just picking up on the RAAF/RAF article in Air Clues. When I was the ALM leader on 30 we had an RAAF loadmaster (from 36 Sqn I think) attached to us for six months.
This was part of a scheme called Ex Airwave whereby they sent one to us and we sent one to them. I wonder if the scheme still exists as I believe it included groundcrew as well.
Originally the system wanted him to do the full RAF ALM Herc course as our rules etc are totally different to anyone elses. This would have left him with about two months on a squadron. I talked them into letting him doing just two weeks on the OCU and getting the EU to sign him up as 'Proficient'. The quid pro quo was that he could not operate as the sole ALM on a crew. This was no hardship to me as at the time the one ALM per 33 pax rule was being enforced. As I was always under establishment I could and did use him as the number two on such trips. I also sent him to places he would not normally get to go. He was not allowed to do standby, or go to NI or the FI.
So 'Tommo T' enjoyed his time with 30 and presented us with a plaque and some pics when he left.
By right we should have been allotted the 'return' leg but that went to an ALM from the OCU despite my protests. I was not best pleased at this turn of events but the chap they sent was the I would have chosen if I had still been the CALMI.

[Bengerman]

One awkward night in Gander! The Gander Hotel was being used but was also in use by the Newfoundland Ladies Darts Association who were having their annual convention, some of them were quite aggressive. :mad:

[DCThumb]

Standby for broadcast, this is a broadcast from the apothecral story centre....


Remember the days when certain locations were on 'actuals'? There was a team from command accounts who travelled around the world checking that the 'rate' for locations was correct, and in this instance, checking the 'actuals' claimed by crews were reasonable.

Some bright spark had declared Gander as an 'actuals' location, heaven knows why. The command accounts team noted that it was costing them more than rates had been, so hotfooted it across the pond (with some glee no doubt).

Having carefully analysed the returns from the crews, they set off to the premier restaurant in town, as used by all crews evidenced by the receipts, called 'Reflections'....

Upon taking their appointed table, they ordered the same as all of the receipts - The Chateaubriand. The waitress asked 'You guys Air Force, right?', which they confirmed and she disappeared to the kitchen, only to return a few minutes later with 2 pitchers of Beer and a basket of chips (fries). The accountants were surprised by this and pointed out to the girl that this was not what they had ordered......whereupon she said 'Yeah, that's right, you guys ask for the chateaubriand, I bring beer and fries'.

Gander went back to rates shortly thereafter.....

End of broadcast!
I don't know of this story is true, or even factually correct but hey!

[ancientaviator62]

DC,
I have heard a version of those events but whether it was Gander I cannot remember. When I was on 48 at Changi we had the ludicrous situation whereby the officers were on rates and the NCO aircrew on actuals.
It did not take the genius of Einstein to ensure that this cost the RAF far more than would have been the case if all had been on rates. :O
I did a trip out to Hong Kong and back and we took an accountant officer who ran the imprest. She was still trying to reconcile it weeks after we got back !

[Dougie M]

There was a period of a few weeks when the $50 Canadian was rescinded and actuals were introduced. Over a 15 hour night stop we managed B,L,D and a post flight meal in the Albert Ross without leaving the bar.(Apart from the mandatory Tac Kip, that is). Severe Labatt's chemical poisoning accompanied us as far as Dulles.
Next time I went through we were back to mild pollution. I hope that taught me a lesson. Actuals are bad for you!

[NutLoose]

Jets magazine are running this article this month, I have found a version on line, the Jets magazine says the crew arrived in a C-130E that was hit on the ground, so spotting the last remaining serviceable C-130A they hurried over to get out of there...


THE C-130 ON DISPLAY AT THE FRONT GATE OF LITTLE ROCK AFB, ARKANSAS


C-130A USAF 56-0518
was by the 314 TCW, 315 AD, 41 ATS, 328 TAS; to South Vietnamese Air Force 435 Transport Squadron, November 1972; holds the C-130 record for taking off with the most personnel on board, during evacuation of SVN, 29 April 1975, with 452. Returned to USAF, 185 TAS, 105 TAS; gate guard at Little Rock AFB Visitor Center, Arkansas by March 1993

This C-130A Hercules was the 126th built by Lockheed Aircraft corp. of Marietta, Georgia. It was accepted into the Air Force inventory on 23 August 1957.

On 2 November 1972, it was given to the South Vietnamese Air Force as part of the Military Assistance Program. A few years later, the aircraft would be involved in a historic flight.

On 29 April 1975, this Herk was the last out of Vietnam during the fall of Saigon. With over 100 aircraft destroyed on the flight line at Tan Son Nhut Air Base, some of them still burning, it was the last flyable C-130 remaining. In a very panicked state, hundreds of people were rushing to get aboard, as the aircraft represented a final ticket to freedom.
People hurriedly crowded into the Herk, packing in tighter and tighter. Eventually, the loadmaster informed the pilot, Major Phuong, a South Vietnamese instructor pilot, that he could not get the rear ramp closed due to the number of people standing on it. In a moment of inspiration, Major Phuong slowly taxied forward, then hit the brakes. The loadmaster called forward again stating he had successfully got the doors closed.

In all, 452 people were on board, including a staggering 32 in the cockpit alone. Using a conservative estimate of 100 pounds per pe rson, it translated into an overload of at least 10,000 pounds. Consequently, the Herk used every bit of the runway and overrun before it was able to get airborne.

The target was Thailand, which should have been 1:20 in flight time, but after an hour and a half, the aircraft was over the Gulf of Slam, and they were clearly lost. Finally, a map was located, they identified some terrain features, and they were able to navigate. They landed atUtapao, Thailand after a three and a half hour flight.

Ground personnel were shocked at what "fell out" as they opened the doors. It was clear that a longer flight would almost certainly have resulted in a loss of life. In the end, however, all 452 people made it to freedom aboard this historic C-130.

Upon landing, the aircraft was reclaimed by the United States Air Force and assigned to two different Air National Guard units for the next 14 years.
On 28 June 1989, it made its final flight to Little Rock Air Force Base and placed on permanent display.


From
History: Last plane out of Saigon - WeTheArmed.com (http://wethearmed.com/military-and-law-enforcement/history-last-plane-out-of-saigon/)

[colt02]

Please put me out of my misery. Thttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies2/eusa_wall.gif
That's ME, second from the left (The F/E) and have no recollection. Bloody age thing. Looked in my log book and could not find an entry for all of 1977 that I flew in 195.

[aeroid]

How significant that we have reached page 130 of the subject. Must be drinkies time.

[CoffmanStarter]

What a splendid idea that man :D Cheers everyone ! :ok:

[WIDN62]

At one stage, the bar in Sinbad's was run by a lady called Sandy. We arrived one Sunday lunchtime to find the dining room closed, so we ordered beers and Sandy produced a pad of blank Domino's Pizza receipts. She said "OK 8 of you - we'll have 8 salads, 8 lots of chicken wings, 8 medium pizzas with all the toppings, etc." She totalled it up and wrote out a receipt. The imprest holder gave her the money and she kept us topped up with beer for the afternoon. Later on another crew turned up who actually wanted pizza. When it arrived I looked at their receipt - a handwriting expert wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between theirs and ours.

It was a sad loss when her husband got a promotion and they moved to Halifax.

[Brian W May]

Probably taught by Fred Moffat . . .

[NutLoose]

My sampling of Canadian music was in Gander on detachment when the Gambo River Boys? played, Locals looked on in amazement when myself and a mate broke out in sycronised applause and cheering when they announced they were going to take a break. Place was packed with tone deaf Canadians.
I believe it or not got approached in the mens toilets by a Canadian whilst I was having a leak, to ask if I was interested in operating as his importer come agent in the UK for his fish as he owned a Trawler.......... I look back in amazement, here was I half pissed, todger in hand doing what men do best, and here is this whopping great Canadian fishermen standing next to me asking me if I am interested in his fish!

I relayed what had been said to one of the others on the detachement who was an old hand at going there and also a Chef in his past life, he looked on on amazement and then nearly broke down in tears as he pointed out that it was a dream offer and I could have been rich by now...

:O

[November4]

In #2488 I posted

Relief Supplies - Nicaragua 13 Jul - 1 Aug 1979

Red Cross Specials. Flt Lt Ian Drake, Cpl Gus Cobb plus 1. Delivery of relief supplies to Nicaragua following the Nicaraguan Civil War. Whilst at Managua Airport the Nicaraguan National Guard attempted to hijack the aircraft. This attempt was foiled by the crew including Cpl Gus Cobb for which they were later made members of the RAF Escaping Society.

* * * * *

On 1 Jan this year (1980) Cpl Gus Cobb was awarded a Commendation by the AOC No 38 Group for his fine service to the Squadron and in particular for his part in the Managua incident last July. (Attempted Hercules Hijacking). Cpl Cobb is now serving in Belize.

I have just heard that Gus died 1 Mar after a long fight with cancer.

http://rafmams.co.uk/images/Movers/Gus%20Cobb.jpg

[fergineer]

Sad to hear of Gus passing. RIP mate

[CoffmanStarter]

I thought it was about time for a few more pages from the Air Clues archives ...

So returning to my post #2561 ... My clue was related to a further expedition to Greenland in 1977 involving further air support from RAF Albert :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Nov%2077%20pg%20412%20Greenland%20drop%20Aug77_zpsc7a8u ejz.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Nov77%20pg%20413_zpsvz8lxpt4.jpg

Source & Image Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues Nov 1977 (Pages 412 to 413)

Best ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

This next extract is interesting and relates to the S-T-R-E-T-C-H-I-N-G of RAF Albert up at Cambridge (XV223 in particular) :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Jan80%20pg30%20Stretching%20the%20Herc_zpsovdailun.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Jan80%20pg31_zps8iymdfqp.jpg

Source & Image Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues Jan 1980 (Pages 30 to 31)

Best ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

I wonder if any of our regular Thread Readership might be able to add to the Dacca Evacuation covered in this article from Air Clues ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Feb72%20pg%20164_zpsd60mlph0.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Feb72%20pg%20165_zpst5bzgala.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Feb72%20pg%20169_zpstfyd1xsd.jpg

Source & Image Credit : MOD RAF Air Clues Feb 1972 (Pages 164, 165 & 169)

Best ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

More from Air Clues in a little while ... if that's OK with everyone ;)

[dragartist]

keep it coming Coff.
I certainly remember seeing the stretching going on at Marshall.


The Js we took delivery of were built as long ones. Odd that the Mk 5 was the short one!


I found a copy of the Royal Air Force Public Relations Magazine No 7 from 1985 when searching the summer house for toys for grandchildren at the w/e. It is quite C130 heavy including bits on Snoopy and ALMs role. I am sure there are a couple of AA62s mates mentioned.


Force levels at the time 74,000 and 260+ Tonkas


When this dries up I will fire up the scanner!

[CoffmanStarter]

Good man Drag :ok:

[November4]

http://rafmams.co.uk/Operations/Op%20Images/Hamish.jpg

Standing: Frank Holmes, Peter Herring, Keith Parker, Troop Smith, Bob Thacker, Charlie Dalgleish, Norrie Radcliffe, Don Stewart, Roy Millington (Movs Masirah)

Kneeling: Doug Lister, Colin Allen, Hugh Curran, Charlie Marlow, Keith Simmonds

Op Hamish 8 - 13 Dec 1971

Soon after I arrived in November 1971 war broke out between India and Pakistan. Some old sweats will remember that we had a dozen or so Hercs based at Masirah for a about a week and teams came from UK and NEAF MAMS. Sorties were flown to Karachi and Islamabad during a week of very intensive ops and we brought out well over 1,000 refugees and packed them off screaming in VC10s to Akrotiri to be re-distrubuted from there. Many nationalities were involved and I had a terrible job persuading people from the Far East, Australia and New Zealand that they had to go West to go East.

RAF Movers Association (http://rafmams.co.uk/Operations/Operations/OpHamish.html)

[Xercules]

Dragartist comments that it is odd that the short J should be the 5.

OR asked us in DAirOps (MoD) what the Js should termed. My answer was that for consistency the short ones should be 4, we leave 5 empty in case we modded another special a la Snoopy and made the long ones 6. This seemed to be a reasonable extension from what had preceded them.

Can't do that said OR, the sleeping policeman on the procurement road, the first ones delivered will be long and they have to take the next number, hence 4. The short ones came after the long ones and, therefore, had to be 5. The short ones were meant for SF because everybody knew that you could not do tactical landings etc or rough field ops with a long fuselage even though all the 3s had the improved landing gear as would all the Js. We tried to get the order changed to all long but OR knew better.

[smujsmith]

I well remember recieving one of the aircraft used on that job at Colerne. Not long after the event, said Albert turned up ready for its Base 3, and we, as always, were eager to ply our trade. When we lifted the floors we found enough foreign loose change to keep your average numismatist busy for a few days, and it was obvious that the refugees did not appreciate the in flight rations offered by our crews as they did their work. The Base 3 was eventually extended, to accomodate the foul state of the aircraft. I note that on "another forum" an attempt is afoot for ex Colernites to reunite, could be interesting.

It was a great effort by our aircrew and support to accomplish, and should always be to their credit, I'm sure many never thought to check what the refuges were throwing away, and where. And who could blame them ? Coff me boy:eek: keep the home fire burning, whilst some, like myself, take a "monitoring" role for a while. Nice to see MAMS making some noise again, it was ever thus:eek:

Smudge:ok:

[fergineer]

Is that you lost for words for a while Smuj, most unlike you!!!!

[smujsmith]

Let's just say I have a few distractions at the moment Fergie.

Smudge :ok:

[gopher01]

Did an east about with an accounts officer on board, I still think he wasn't really an accounts officer as everywhere we went he kept pointing out things we hadn't claimed for, water in hot climates, laundry ditto, we couldn't believe it and wanted to keep him all the way round but he got off in HK so we were on our own after that but I believe it was an eye opener for the Co!

[Nugget90]

Many thanks for displaying this Air Clues article on flying C130A Hercules in the 1960s, for I was one of the RAF pilots who, together with (then) Flt Lt Brian Warsap and Flt Lt Robin Geach, replaced the three who wrote the piece, and it has brought memories flooding back!

Having previously been flying the mighty Hastings, I found the 'A' model Hercules a pleasure to operate in both the tactical and strategic roles, and of course it was a delight to handle. No 36 Squadron RAAF took a highly professional approach to its operations, and we flew all over Australia and the Pacific Rim, as it is now described, supporting all three Services with regular runs up and down the Continental East Coast. We also carried via Pearce and the Cocos Islands (during Confrontation) supplies and replacements to deployed forces in Malaya (Butterworth), Thailand (Ubon) and Vietnam (Vung Tau and the Saigon airfields), and there were 'one off' visits to Nauru, Christmas Island, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Fiji, New Caledonia, etc. As engineering support was virtually non existent at many of the airfields or strips we simply got on with the job of replacing fire bottles, carrying litters (stretchers), refuelling from drums, etc - whatever was needed - so that the aircraft could complete the task.

I have written up on my experiences with the Squadron and a copy of this text has been accepted for his archives by the Director of the RAAF Museum as a record of what the RAAF Hercules did in that era. He commented that as transport aeroplanes had never been sexy, there was virtually nothing on file to cover this period (1965 to 67).

Only one C130A (A97-214) still remains in Australia and this can be visited at the RAAF Museum just outside Melbourne. Although outwardly in fine fettle, sadly some of the flight and other instruments are missing. When I was there two years ago I was asked to talk to a party of school children who were visiting the Museum as part of a history lesson, being introduced as one who had actually flown in this relic! I thought at the time how great it was to see school children being educated in their recent history, and would hope that similar connections between schools and RAF aircraft might be made here, too, to help generate interest in our Service.

I shall be joining some of my former Australian colleagues on the 25th of next month (ANZAC Day - 100th anniversary) for the Parade in Sydney for what I am sure will be a memorable occasion.

[CoffmanStarter]

Nugget90 ... Welcome to the Thread and thank you so much for adding a bit more colour and history to the 'Down Under' post ...

If you have any pics you might like to share feel free to drop me a PM as I'll be only too pleased to help :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

[ancientaviator62]

Nugget90,
after your tour with the RAAF did you fly the 'K' with the RAF ?

[CoffmanStarter]

I thought it might be good to add to Nugget90's post with a couple of links and pics ... I hope that's OK with everyone :)

Lockheed C-130A Hercules A97-214

Received into RAAF service on 14 January 1959, A97-214 was operated by No 36 Squadron, part of the RAAF's No 86 (Transport) Wing. During A97-214's long service career, servicings were carried out by No 2 Aircraft Depot and No 486 Maintenance Squadron at Richmond, and Qantas at Kingsford-Smith Airport, Sydney.

A97-214 participated in many notable RAAF operations, including support for RAAF forces in Thailand and Vietnam, flood relief and civil aid taskings, and providing relief to Darwin in the aftermath of Cyclone Tracy. In 1978, A97-214 was withdrawn from service, and was stored at RAAF Base Laverton pending disposal.

Allocated to the RAAF Museum in 1988, the aircraft was transported by road to Point Cook in May 1994.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/C-130A-A97-214_zpsuwvozx3v.jpg

Lockheed C-130E Hercules A97-160

Delivered from Lockheed in August 1966, A97-160, like all of the RAAF's C-130E aircraft, entered service with No 37 Squadron at RAAF Base Richmond in New South Wales. During A97-160's 34-year RAAF career, the aircraft flew strategic transport tasks in support of the Army, Navy and RAAF, and also flew a variety of notable and special loads, including the Pope-mobile, the Jackson Pollock painting Blue Poles, and a bull presented as a gift to the Chinese government.

This aircraft flew the last flight of the RAAF's C-130Es on 14 November 2000 under the command of Squadron Leader Mike Beattie, flying from Richmond to Point Cook for delivery to the RAAF Museum. The total airframe hours for this aircraft are 25833.4.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/C-130E_zpsicumdp84.jpg

Image & Source Credit (All Above) : RAAF Museum Point Cook Australia

The C-130 Hercules RAAF Service

The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) has operated a total of forty-eight Lockheed C-130 Hercules transport aircraft. The type entered Australian service in December 1958, when No. 36 Squadron accepted the first of twelve C-130As, replacing its venerable Douglas C-47 Dakotas. The acquisition made Australia the first operator of the Hercules after the United States. In 1966 the C-130As were joined by twelve C-130Es, which equipped No. 37 Squadron. The C-130As were replaced by twelve C-130Hs in 1978, and the C-130Es by twelve C-130J Super Hercules in 1999. No. 37 Squadron became the RAAF's sole Hercules operator in 2006, when No. 36 Squadron transferred its C-130Hs prior to converting to Boeing C-17 Globemaster III heavy transports. The C-130Hs were retired in November 2012, leaving the C-130J as the only model in Australian service.

RAAF C-130 Hercules Fleet Information & Pics (http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a97.htm)

For those interested ... See the data against Frame A97-207 ... Spinning :eek:

More RAAF Museum pics can be viewed here ...

RAAF Museum External Exhibits (http://www.airforce.gov.au/raafmuseum/exhibitions/ex_display.htm)

It appears that the 'paper' Nugget90 mentions isn't available on-line.

Best ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

OK Gentlemen ... Back to the 70's again !!!

Only 'Good Looking Chaps Need Apply' :cool:

This popped into my in-box earlier this week ... so I thought I'd share :ok:

Even I remember this Recruiting Brochure ... Op Khana Cascade (Himalayas Nepal) is the backdrop featuring (Pilot & Boss) W/C M--- H---- (Co Pilot) F/L D--- G---- and (EngO) F/O B--- C---- sadly the Nav wasn't named or the remainder of the Crew :(

So I've done a 'Blow Up' as I'm sure someone will recognise the other faces :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/c1300001_zpslmmq2l9q.jpg

Image Blow Up ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/c1300001_zpspqxxbe2f.jpg

Image Credit : Crown MOD RAF

Although there isn't a date on the publication ... the old style Airlite 62 Clement Clarke headsets are a bit of a give away ... but then a starting salary of £1,825.00pa for a first tourist Aircrew Officer confirmed the decade :eek:

Best ...

Coff.

PS. I deliberately haven't fully named people even though the remainder of the brochure does (I've not posted this section of the document).

[aeroid]

Ref post 2603. I had the pleasure of flying with the then S/L B... W... on his return from Oz. We were on the Air Test Unit at Colerne from May 68 to Aug 69 before he progressed to greater things. My only claim to fame was that I managed to fly all of the 66 'K's purchased the RAF. I still see him from time to time.

[ancientaviator62]

aeroid,
all 66 'K's are in my logbooks too. Any else with a full house ?

[CoffmanStarter]

Good afternoon Gents ...

Our good friend Nugget90 has been in touch and asked me to add these pics of RAAF C-130A's. Hopefully he'll drop by with a bit more detail :ok:

As A97-214 is now at the RAAF Museum ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/100_2627_zpssqtuuw1q.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/100_2623_zpsz4mob7o1.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/100_2622_zpsuhujs2u9.jpg

Here are a couple of other C-130A's in service in the 60's (08 & 09) ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/66.04.03%20Hercules%20in%20flight2_zpsiycgwxze.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/66.02.35%20Hercules%20in%20the%20Skies%201_zpsskv08qoa.jpg

Thanks for sharing your pics Nugget90

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

A couple more pics from Nugget90 :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/66.02.12%20Norfolk%20Island_zpsxtitp5gy.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/66.07.11%20Hercules%20at%20Nauru%207_zpsdzfg2o4g.jpg

I understand the above pics were taken at Nauru and Norfolk Island - the first time either island had played host to this ‘giant’ aeroplane (as the media described them) ;)

Thanks again Nugget90 ...

Coff

[ancientaviator62]

I had the pleasure of visiting the Museum near Melbourne when my son lived there. It is an excellent day out but at the time of my visit it was not possible to look over the C 130A . However inside the museum they had a full size photo of FS245 with some of the para seats fitted in front of it. It seemed quite realistic.
Although the 'A' was the real forerunner of all subsequent Hercs it does differ in several major respects. Some differences are obvious like the three bladed props others like the electrical and hydraulic system for example are not.

[Nugget90]

Further to the two photos that CoffmanStarter has kindly posted for me in 2611, herewith some details.

The flight to Norfolk Island was made for the purpose of delivering a new fire tender. There were two fairly short runways, one of which was grass - it straddled the golf course. All those whom we met looked after us very well and we stayed overnight. I was struck by the local accent, which was a blend of Australian with West Country (i.e. Devon/Cornwall). (Descendants of Christian of the Bounty.)

The trip to Nauru was special in several ways other than simply being the largest aeroplane ever to land there. The call came in the morning for two crews and a Nursing Sister to get ready to fly to the Pacific Island of Nauru to bring out a little girl who had been injured by a falling tree and needed urgent and specialised medical treatment in a fully-equipped hospital on the Australian mainland.

We departed in A97-206 in the late afternoon of the 1st of June 1966. I flew as co-pilot on the first leg to Townsville, Northern Queensland, where we refuelled before heading out to Honiara, Guadalcanal for a landing just after first light, as the strip had no refinements! (It had been a need to land here in daylight that had determined our necessarily late departure time from RAAF Base Richmond NSW.) We had installed litters so that some horizontal rest could be attempted by the off-duty crew. The third leg of 780 miles was straight to Nauru which is roughly circular with a big hole in the centre from which phosphates were being extracted (the primary source of wealth to the islanders at that time).

Before landing we made a low pass over the coral strip to ensure both that it was clear of people, dogs, bicycles, etc and that the masts of yachts moored in the small harbour wouldn't create a hazard. After landing our engineers oversaw a further refuelling from drums whilst the rest of us enjoyed hospitality provided by the Government representatives (a brush up and a meal) and by the islanders who draped us with garlands of flowers.

When all was ready, the little girl (Nadine), accompanied by her father and a nurse who spoke English boarded the aircraft and we departed on the 2,100 mile flight direct to Brisbane. After we had offloaded our three passengers we flew on down south to Richmond.

The round trip had been some 5,235 miles. Unknown to us until after we had landed circa 22.30 on the evening of the 2nd of June, the whole flight was being reported widely across Australia as a mercy mission (fairly unusual in itself at that time) with bulletins every half hour or so. Thus, when we arrived home we were met not only by Customs (of course) but also by the Press.

As a post script I should add that Nadine made a full recovery. After a lifetime spent flying I should observe that this had been the longest crew flying duty period that I ever experienced!

[ExAscoteer]

all 66 'K's are in my logbooks too. Any else with a full house ?

I'm, a little younger than you AA62.;)

In only have the 62 that made it to the '90s in my Logbook.

[herkman]

Of being the loadmaster on both the Norfolk Island and Nauru trips.

Seems like only yesterday, they were good days the like we are unlikely to see again.

Norfolk island gave us the best fishing I have ever seen, not helped by a nosey shark who wanted some of the action. Aircraft under the command of the late Air Commode David Hitchens who was I believe the CO of your 30 Squadron.

Nauru was a different story there was no proper airfield and in actual fact was the old WW2 Japanese field. We would have been light and the drivers seem to have little problem. Brian Warsap was the aircraft commander, we used to get the very best on exchange from the RAF.

All the best

Col

[ancientaviator62]

I have received a PM from Nugget90 and we do indeed know each other from the 'K' on 47 Sqn at Fairford. I last flew with him on Jan 8 1970 in XV 295 from Akrotiri back to Fairford. He then went to the VC10 and I went to 48.
This trip was my route check and I was upgraded from C Cat to B Cat and told I was in the frame for the Wing Examiner's job. I did not get it but got the 'consolation' prize instead, the posting to Changi. Given a free choice I would have taken the overseas posting every time !

[ancientaviator62]

herkman,
judging by the length of the fire tender it looks a tight squeeze getting up the ramp and on to the main floor. Sounds a great trip all round.
I had a good look round the 'A' when we visited Richmond and also round a USAF gunship version in Thailand. I believe they were known as the GT model on account of the excellent power to weight ratio due in part to the lower MTOW. When I did the HEART job I seem to recall that the RAAF had by far and away the best safety record of anyone operating the Hercules. Huge respect.
And the RAF was still operating the Beverley and Hastings !

[CoffmanStarter]

TRYING TO RESUME NORMAL SERVICE

Yesterday it would seem that my uploaded images across PPRuNe (including this thread) weren't visible and replaced with an "Invitation to Upgrade" to me from PhotoBucket. Apparently I exceeded my 10GB per month Bandwidth "Free Allowance". However everything looks OK this morning on my Mac & iPad.

Apparently the recent popularity of the Herc thread has resulted in an increased "Hit Rate" against my uploaded images. In simple therms ...

Hit Rate x Number of Images x Image Size > Bandwidth of 10GB per month = Images Masked until Reset (Monthly).

I'll undertake a few further checks today as I wouldn't what this "annoyance" to disrupt everyone else's enjoyment (I still have interesting/historic Air Clues material).

Kind regards ...

Coff.

PS. Many thanks to those who alerted me to the issue yesterday :ok:

[Trumpet_trousers]

62 that made it to the '90s in my Logbook

Likewise for me, having joined the fleet in the early 80's

The following frames were already gone:

XVs 180, 194, 198 and 216

lost/Cat 5'd on the following dates respectively:

180: 24/03/69
194: 12/09/72
198: 10/09/73
216: 09/11/71

Source: UK Serials website.

Perhaps AA62 can elaborate? ISTR that one (216?) was lost off Pisa with paras onboard during an exercise, and another (180?) in Norway having departed the runway after landing?

[Brian 48nav]

The first loss was at Fairford in '69 - co-pilot training I believe (30 Sqn)
The next was at Pisa in '71, just after take-off on what was to have been a 9 ship low level night into day followed by dropping Italian paras on a DZ in Sardinia - only the first 6 got airborne and No3 ( 24 Sqn ) flew into the sea killing all on board.
The third was at Tromso when the a/c left the runway and fell into a ditch ISTR. I think it broke its back. (24 Sqn ). The crew survived.
198 crashed at Colerne in Sept' 73, also on co-pilot training ( 48 Sqn ).

I think it was another 20 years before the next fatal loss in Scotland on low-level.

[ancientaviator62]

The losses are as TT and Brian have flagged up. I wrote about the Tromso incident in an earlier post. I seem to recall that the Italian crash was in poor WX and the conclusion was that the a/c descended in a turn into the sea.
The captain was Graham H. who had been a Co on 47 Sqn when I was there.
We were on a Westabout at the time when we heard the sad news.

[Brian W May]

The talk when I was teaching in the sim was there had been an insidious ADI failure, but that's difficult as the flying was essentially VFR. But it was night low level as I understand it (just before my time as aircrew).

This hastened the fitment of another artificial horizon which the 'planners' managed to put on the Isol DC Busbar, thus ensuring with a RCR failure, all the attitude instruments would fail together. IIRC

[Brian 48nav]

I could be wrong but I think the unfortunate skipper's name was Colin H.
I was in aircraft No5 with Geoff Howard and I don't recall the wx being particularly bad - little bit of mist low down, but my memory is at odds with other people who have posted on this subject before - i.e. the Andover wx ship reporting back about poor conditions.

I am still in touch with Joe O who was the nav in No4 and Chris P, the skipper in No6, and none of us can recall any involvement by Andovers.

Sadly it was a stupid idea for the first sortie of a 2 week detachment to be a 9 ship formation commencing at night. Commonsense would have dictated that the initial sorties should have been singletons, then 3 ships by day building up to a 9 ship finale at night. But then I was only a newly promoted Flt Lt, so what would I know?

[ancientaviator62]

Brian,
I think you are correct ref the name of the captain involved in the Pisa accident. It seems such a long time ago and yet I can remember where I was when we got the news. Another example of my sometimes fallible friend, memory.

[nimbev]

I was on the staff at Thorney at the time, the Capt and Nav had only recently passed through the OCU (not sure about the remainder of the crew). As Brian says, questions were asked about the planning of the exercise and the wisdom of having a night stream so early on. As I recall, it was also the first time the crew had flown a night low level formation, so there were suggestions that it should be included in the OCU tactical phase, but I dont think that happened. A lot of the troops felt that someone 'higher up ' should have been held to account, and that the BOI was a bit of a whitewash. I dont know the rights and wrongs of the situation but it certainly caused a lot of ripples at the time.

[CoffmanStarter]

Good afternoon Gents ...

With normal 'image' service resumed from me ... I'll continue with some more interesting back copy on the C-130K ... if that's OK with everyone.

Now this article comes from AViate (2007) and although it relates to a US Herc ... apparently the same type of incident occurred twice with RAF C-130K's ... "but fortunately not quite so dramatic". Well that sounds a bit of understatement to me :eek:

I'm sure amongst our Thread readership and followers someone will be able to elucidate further :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Aviate%202007%20pg18_zpsfytacn8h.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Aviate%202007%20pg19_zps03azygjj.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/Aviate%202007%20pg20_zpsumhcwd8v.jpg

Image Credit : Aviate Flight Safety Magazine (2007) : Original Article Credit : US Navy & Marine Corps Aviation Safety Magazine.

Best ...

Coff.

[Mal Drop]

' ... recovered our l̶o̶a̶d̶m̶a̶s̶t̶e̶r̶ captain from under a stack of five people and plugged h̶e̶r̶ him back into the intercom.'

I'm getting flashbacks of a 47 Sqn trip.

[Bratman91]

It's interesting to think that the Hercules first entered operational service (with US forces) at almost the same time that the Beverley entered RAF service. Did we get things right, back then? If we didn't, we seem to have learned very little from the experience and spend an awful lot of money developing and sometimes introducing British equipment only to replace it with US equivalents of the same or even earlier vintage.

[ancientaviator62]

Coffman,
we did indeed have at least one liferaft escape from the stowage in flight but not I think with quite so dramatic consequences.
I have mentioned in an earlier post that the UK sourced liferafts in the 'K' were larger (MS26 and then MS 33 in the stretched version) than those fitted to US a/c. They were a real headache for the technicians to fit as smudge confirmed. I also recalled seeing two demos of the MS33 where the liferafts merely lay on the wing blowing like beached whales.
When our 'K' model was first stretched the MS 33 was not ready so for large pax loads we carried an MS 9 which was supposed to be launched out through the cargo compartment aft escape hatch. It was not exactly a light item but I suppose in extremis the adreniline would turbo charge the muscles !

[CoffmanStarter]

Bratman91 ...

Decisions around procurement have never been easy. The simple answer I guess, is that a UK Government (of any colour shade) will want to see British Jobs benefit ... or certainly did back in the 50's/60's. After WWII the British economic and industrial recovery was very much driven by aerospace.

Hope you are enjoying the Thread :ok:

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

Good morning AA62 :ok:

All understood ... But that US incident must have been an extreme 'Brown Trouser' moment !

Mind you ... I'm wondering if our good friend Mal Drop will want to share more of his 'Flashback' ...

More from Air Clues over the weekend ...

Best ...

Coff.

[Bratman91]

Coffmanstarter, yes, a very interesting thread - lots of good stories and some interesting observations.

[CoffmanStarter]

Good morning Gents ...

Well played England yesterday at Twickers ... sorry just had to get that in :)

Throughout this Thread we have seen how rugged and tough the Herc has been in Service. This article from Air Clues June 1986 covers the incident in the South Atlantic where 15' of the Port Wing was severed off , but still RAF Albert got home. Sadly as a result of this mid-air a Sea King Crew were lost (RIP).

I'm sure there are other instances where things have stopped working, dropped off or failed ... but RAF Albert still got it's crew home safe ... which might prompt a few more stories :ok:

Also ... Great respect for the Engineers with this particular post incident recovery :D

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Jun86%20pg%20228%20Herc%20wing%20replacement%20MPA_zpsr 6j2wmal.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Jun86%20pg%20229_zpsrnbgtqaz.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Jun86%20pg%20230_zpsqaicdnsn.jpg

Source Credit : Crown MOD RAF Air Clues June 1986

More pics ...

http://www.c-130.net/g3/var/resizes/c-130-photos/Mishaps/XV206Falk1a.jpg?m=1411060621

Image Credit : C-130.net

Coff.

PS. I appreciate we eventually lost XV206 in 2006. Wrecked at a dirt landing strip after hitting land mine on roll-out near Lashkar Gar, Afghanistan.

[ksimboy]

Coff , sorry to dispute the Air Clues article but it was actually 20ft 7ins that went walking that day. MPA was a welcome sight, and fortunately available.

[CoffmanStarter]

Another piece from Air Clues ...

A Flt Eng (F/L G. D. Hatt) transferring from the Bev to the Herc and noticing all the dial needles were in the wrong place :)

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Sep%2068pg%20448%20Hello%20Herc_zpsyjpgcwmh.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/AC%20Sep68%20pg%20449_zpsicqm0jz1.jpg

Source Credit : Crown MOD RAF Air Clues June 1975

Coff.

[Brian 48nav]

Yes I remember that article too! But - Gerry was a Flt Eng!

Had a quarter next door to him at South Cerney when we came back from Changi. We were so envious of him and his good lady as they could afford to go out for lunch every Sunday - probably cos' they had no kids!

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks Brian ... My mistake ... I'll correct ;)

[ksimboy]

Coff, nice pics of 206 on the pan at MPA, what the article and pics fail to mention was that aircraft was the test bed for the MAROC pods on the wingtips, and had additional wiring for the "pallet" that was occassionally used for long sorties to the west of the Islands. Fortunatley the airbridge that landed at Stanley later that week also had the wiring so the crew flew home by BA 747 in comfort.

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks Ksimboy ...

Good to have an off line chat too :ok:

Cheers ...

Coff.

[Dougie M]

The RAF responded to this incident with a distinct lack of testicular fortitude. The Navy insisted on disciplinary action against the Herc captain. An outrage which was eventually averted. He should have been awarded an immediate DFC to my mind.

[ksimboy]

Dougie,
As always i totally concur with your comment. he did an outstanding job recovering the aircraft in what were unprecedented circumstances. Not sure how much truth there was in the rumours that they programmed the flight sim at Lyn with the faults experienced that day and the sim crashed every time.

[Top Bunk Tester]

And the unfortunate demise of XV206 at Lashkar Gar

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad168/Gadget_Meister/image.jpg1_zpsh9jvngnu.jpg (http://s932.photobucket.com/user/Gadget_Meister/media/image.jpg1_zpsh9jvngnu.jpg.html)

[middlesbrough]

In IMC fixed wing fly at 1000ft, helicopters 500ft, and don't overfly any surface vessel. Inexperienced in Maritime procedures may have been a factor?

[Jackw106]

JATF 74 (Airborne)

NTSMuoj3Slg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTSMuoj3Slg

[CoffmanStarter]

Jackw106 ... Great find :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Jackw106,
thanks for the link. I do not remember ever seeing this film before despite my long involvement with 'K' airdrop. The film brought back many memories of that time and the JATFOR trips in paricular. Actually gives a good view of the organised chaos of an operational para drop and the speed which the 'train' departs the a/c.
Nice to see the MSP (before the high frames) and SSP. In those days 16 Para HD Company did the MSP rigging and 47 AD did the I tons etc.
'Them were the days' !

[Brian W May]

Wow, that brought back some memories!

Good stuff.

[ksimboy]

JATFOR looks a lot scarier than the 15 ship iron gorillas I remember. The formation briefs for them were bad enough.

[Dougie M]

Too true. At least the 15 ship formation had SKE to keep them apart. JATFOR was VMC only and had excruciating penetrate and scatter plans in case of encountering weather . The cloudy sky was swarming with crud and custard Alberts up to 10,000 feet heading in all directions. The Loss of SKE procedures still kept you going the right way. There WERE however one or two buttock clenching moments!

[CoffmanStarter]

Ksimboy, Dougie M ...

It looks like even current SKE Abort/Breakup SOP (with 15 aircraft in IMC - Outside CAS) would take up a lot of vertical airspace :eek:

See Annex A

UK Mil SKE (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/2014000004ACN10SKEFlights.pdf)

I bet the JATFOR Abort/Breakup would make the Red's 'Formation Break' look a bit limp ;)


.

[Dougie M]

I never really liked SKE but it was sold to the army as a Blind Drop aid and they bought it. When they found out that the min IMC drop height would be at safety altitude they went off it a bit.
Well done for digging out the ATC angle on the use of SKE, but the previous point was that you could take your formation through iffy weather at base altitude or transit in IMC at medium altitude to a suitable let down long after JATFOR would have aborted.
In the event of Loss of SKE the first element lead stayed at base altitude, no 2 +500ft, no 3 +1000ft. The second elephant lead went to base +1500,2 +2000, 3+2500 Then the third elephant lead stayed down at base altitude and so on so you only had a stack from say 3000ft to 5500ft.
The JATFOR scatter sent people off to holding points on radials and ranges from tacans around the country and then recalled all 36 one by one. Nightmare!
Anyway, practising SKE procedures on low level missions gave you time for a cup of tea and the contents of your AH box.
I

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks Dougie ... Fascinating stuff :ok:

[Brian W May]

Give me the 3 ship LPAC every time!

[ksimboy]

I do recall a SKE weekend based at Leuchars which coincided with the Calcutta cup match at Murrayfield. The officers were invited to partake of Sgts Mess hospitality (with permission for once!) and a good time was had by all. One of the ALMs got slightly more friendly with the SWO (female type) than was normal. The classic call on the the SKE recovery of "SWO down SWO down go " reduced flight decks to tears and caused a rather ragged formation for a few minutes.

[Brian W May]

Wasn't nasty Dave Crossan was it . . . or Roy Lewis . . . or Hegarty . . . oh my God the list is endless . . .

[MPN11]

I thought we had an Air Force once ... JATFOR is a distant memory!

What now? Four platoons?

[smujsmith]

Ahh Brian,

Some names to conjure with, but a certain A Hegerty would get my vote. Ksimboy, from what I read I assume that you were the Loady when 206 had its meeting with the chopper ? I was fortunate to be "crewed up" with nutty Bob at the back end of GW1 in Bahrain, we had some "interesting" approaches to Kuwait airport through the oil fire smoke, with the Comms alive with US helicopters. Finally, the JATFOR link is great stuff, so nice to see Albert in his true colours ;-))

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Great to see you back Smudge ... You've been missed :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

MPN11 ...

Welcome back ... Have you any stories you could share in respect of controlling either JATFOR or SKE Formations from the Air Traffic perspective :ok:

[ksimboy]

Smuj, welcome back. It wasnt Hegrat, he wouldn't do such tedious things as SKE weekends. I was indeed the loadie that day down South. It was rather an interesting day when Nutty Bob flipped on the aircraft, just as well he was home when we did our South Georgia trip, that would definitely have sent him over the edge. Will save that story for later however.

[MPN11]

Welcome back ... Have you any stories you could share in respect of controlling either JATFOR or SKE Formations from the Air Traffic perspective
How kind, Sir!

Sorry, but nothing to relate in that area. Nearly all my UK controlling involved fast jets over E Anglia, whereas JATFOR seemed to stay "west of the Ambers".

The closest I could get would be controlling the Varsity navex stream out of Oakington, and wondering how their tracks could get so widely scattered by the time they reached the Finningley area! By the time they returned home, they were a random gaggle in no particular sequence, wandering gently across Cambridgeshire ... or Rutland, or Lincolnshire, or other points east of the Ambers ;)

[Dougie M]

The mention of the "Varsity stream" recalls a real bomb burst separation when I was a junior nav holding at Oakington. The famed 16 ship diamond formation of varsities was commanded by the slightly eccentric Von Zielac (approx.) at the centre of the display line he yelled "Verys, verys, shoot, bang, fire, NOW" the sporadic salvo of flares from the lead group landed amongst the followers and an airborne melee ensued. I was in trail somewhere and the Instructor Pilot stated that he hadn't seen any thing like it since Bremerhaven in '43.

[DCThumb]

Ksimboy, were you in MPA with a certain Kiwi (but not THE kiwi who replaced him as OC1312)?

[ksimboy]

DC no, he left before I got there, OC1312 was initially a 24 exec (Nav) replaced by a Scottish one from 30 affectionately known as STARMAC and not because he was a great guy!

[smujsmith]

Dougie M,

I tremble when even thinking this, but, as a young lad I always enjoyed the annual B of B day at RAF Gaydon in the late 60s. As the Varsities of No 2 ANS featured heavily in the display, perhaps you may have been involved. Instructor perhaps :eek: thanks to all for the welcome back, it's been an "interesting" few weeks for Chateau Smudge, that has helped restore my faith in medics, we digress though.

The emergency radio bay, on the Left wing, just inboard of the life rafts;

I began my association with Albert on 8 March 1971, arriving on White team at RAF Colerne as a bit of a joke, no, not me, but someone at handbrake house Colerne decided that a Jnr Tech Smith, rumoured to be the son of the then team manager Flight Sgt Norman Smith, would be good for a laugh. It took me a few weeks to convince my contempories that we were not related. During my time assisting with Base 3 servicing I believe that a good proportion of the aircraft arrived from 70 squadron (then based at Akronelli). After clearing customs, it was usual to see the delivery crew attend the aircraft the next day, before we washed the frame, and "unload" the emergency radio bay. I'm sure it was basically cigarettes as a Demijohn might have suffered under high altitude flight conditions. Now, despite having served on ALSS through 87, as a GE 88 - 95 and as an AES team manager until 97, I can't for the life of me remember if the new wings included an emergency radio compartment. Can anyone enlighten my feeble brain ? And does anyone remember using the compartment for any "imports" ? After all these years, the statute of limitations must be invoked, and anyway, no names, no pack drill. As an aside, if the emergency radio bay was a good location, what about the dry bays :rolleyes:

As a follow up, I had the pleasure of a return flight Akronelli to Malta, as I served my time with a certain Lightning Unit in the Med. The trip out, by Whistling Tit, the return by Albert. Anyone recollect the 70 mixed fleet of the 70s ? How did it work, and, were crews qualified on both types ?

Smudge :ok:

[smujsmith]

I may have missed this previously, if so I apologise. But enjoyed the clips in this. It will go well with the full English tomorrow morning ;

http://youtu.be/aVjuw3g7jgE

Smudge :ok:

[Brian W May]

Well I've not seen that one before Smuj, thanks mate.

Getting a bit nostalgic in my old age . . .

[smujsmith]

My pleasure Brian,

In the NVG sequence, are we seeing a TALO ? Having just read, and enjoyed Exocet Falklands, the landing seems to meet the definition. definately some good stuff, accompanied by decent music. Apologies for hogging it gentlemen, it's nice to be out and about again though.

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
welcome 'home'. Thank you for the link to the video. Some great shots of airdrop and tanking. The ULLA sequence conveys nicely the huge forces involved as it shudders to a stop on the DZ. Explains why we never dropped vehicles using it.

[Dougie M]

Welcome back Smudge. The thread has been a little bare in your absence.
The NVG sequence above is indeed a TALO offload if a little flat in its approach.
As for Argosy Vs Herc interoperability the two systems have separate OCUs. I was on Argosies for 6 years and it was a quantum leap in experience to take off before breakfast, not flag stop in France for lunch and realise that Malta was only half a tank of gas rather than an overnight stop en route. Most ungentlemanly hours. I got to see a lot more of the world though, some of it memorably in your company.

[ancientaviator62]

DougieM,
you Argosy chaps had it easy. We on the 'sleeve valve' fleets 'suffered with fortitude' ! The Hercules was a quantam leap which we should have had in service long before we did.

[gopher01]

Slightly off thread but with regard to sleeve valves does anybody have or can obtain access to the article in Air Clues that was printed shortly after the demise of the Bev entitled " Bye Bye Bev " which contained many stories about the career of the Bev, stories such as the birdstrike where the bird overtook the Bev but misjudged its cut across the front of the Bev and got hit, closing speed about 5 mph! If so I would appreciate a copy as it was the first aircraft I worked on after leaving Halton and boy did it have character.

[Brian W May]

I remember doing the TALO workup on 47, we used Keevil after practising with the Blues and Royals at Lyneham.

I said to their RSM, since you've had a go in our Hercules, can I have a go in your tank, so next morning on the bottom of the Calne Strip, he let me drive their Spartan (like a Scimitar without a turret) up and down for half an hour (about the same time they had in our aircraft. God that was fun.

I loved doing TALO, 10 minutes flying, Lumpy Box and go home early (or previous day off).

[smujsmith]

I seem to remember you telling me that your first aircraft after Brats was the Wapiti :eek: I think Coff has access to back issues of air clues, he may be able to help.

Dougie M

Thanks for that info re Argosy/C130. Does anyone know if the 70 Squadron crews in the 70s were qualified on both types, or if they specialised. I would imagine a large difference between the two aircraft.

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
never on Argosies but did my para jump from one. HUGE difference in capabilty between the C130 and the Argosy. The Herc was an original design the Argosy came from the AW parts bin. Shack wing, modified Meteor tail booms etc. This is not to decry the Argosy, way better than the sleeve valvers for most tasks, but it shows what we had to operate with before the mighty Hercules take over

[smujsmith]

AA62,

I'm sure the Bevs were a breed apart. If Gopher 01 is correct being overtaken by a bird might be a bit of an embarrassment for some of the two winged master race :rolleyes: Meanwhile, I thought I saw a young AA62 in the Youtube sequence I posted, in amongst the Para's prepping to drop. If not, it was a lookalike.

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Gopher01 ... If you drop Nimman a PM he might be able to help you with Air Clues :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Smudge,
I think it was probably my stunt double in the para dropping video !
The Beverley was indeed a class act for it could take higher loads than the Hercules. It had a 10 ft square fuselage with no intrusions wheras the height of the Herc cargo compartment was just over 9 feet and of course it had intrusions into that space. Also on airdrop the Bev had the boom for para dropping as well as the cargo compartment for heavy drop etc.
But bottom line is the Hercules outperformed the Beverley and the Hastings in every other way.

[Dougie M]

The Herc beat the Argosy in all respects. Apart from the toilet and washbasinhttp://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/sim%20hp_zpskzl38knd.jpg

[Dougie M]

The normal TOW for the Argosy was only just more than the fuel weight of the Herc.http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/ef934f4c-6365-4abe-9882-d98773e84a00_zps4d5gjkil.jpg

[ICM]

Argosy v C-130? I could probably claim that the C-141 outdid both by a margin, but of course the RAF never had any so we can agree that doesn't count here!

[smujsmith]

So, my original question about how 70 Squadron operated its dual fleet at Akrotiri in the 70s, has developed into a comparison of types, and still no answers forthcoming on how they operated the two types. I will take a guess that as keeping current on both types would be exceedingly difficult, the squadron basically operated as two individual flights, each operating separate types. Now lads, back to your comparison, looks like the Starlifters is about to enter the fray, good luck. I still believe that Gopher01 worked on Wapiti's.

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
IMHO think we should stick to comparisons of transport a/c the RAF did have in service otherwise we may stray so far off track 'that even God can't find us' (from Paint Your Wagon !)

[fergineer]

Having done my Air Eng training on thnArgosy sim and having operated the Herc, I could not or would want to operate both aircraft at the same time.

[smujsmith]

AA62,

I couldn't have put it better. Did no contributor here fly with Love and Kisses back in the 70s ? As Fergineer says, It would have been a nightmare operating both types. I have a mate who worked on the Groundcrew on 70 during that period, and, can't for the life of me remember if he worked Argosy, C130 or both. I haven't seen him for years but will try to send him a message to see if he was "bi" or not, although, I doubt it would be such a problem for the Groundcrew.

Smudge :ok:

[zetec2]

No problem for us multi tasking groundcrew, if flying was that difficult the groundcrew would have done it (as I did after leaving the employ of Aunt Bet !)
I had been flying privately whilst in the RAF so the transistion was quite easy as well as holding UK CAA maintenance licenses , this was when I was doing my bit at Lyneham, rgds, PH.

[Brian 48nav]

I don't think it was unusual for a squadron to operate more than one type, particularly the old comm' squadrons/flights.

Far East Comm' at Changi had the Hastings and Andover ( the latter being like the civil 748 i.e. no ramp ), but I doubt the aircrew flew both.
The RAFG comm sqn, later 60 Sqn, had IIRC Devons and Pembrokes which were more likely to have had crews that flew both - a mate of mine on 48 did a stint on 60 I'll check to see if he flew both.

Back in the heady days of the 40s and 50s I think all sorts of types were used as squadron hacks.

Afterthought - of course aircrew posted to Boscombe etc, even though not TPs, flew lots of types i.e. a nav' could have been current on the Comet, Brit, Devon etc. I believe.

[zetec2]

Was on 60 at Wildenrath late 1960`s had Pembrokes, Devon, Heron, Basset and 748, plus us groundcrew as well as the above looked after visiting Nato & every one elses aircraft as they visited and staged through, when we had a real Air Force !, rgds, PH.

[middlesbrough]

As a nav at Boscombe in the 90s, I was current on Nimrod mr2, Nimrod R,Comet mk4, PA31, Andover, C130, VC10 and Sentry. Happy Days!

[ancientaviator62]

Actually the only choice to replace the 'sleeve valve' fleet was between the C 130 and the C160 which brings me neatly to my next tale. If anyone out there was involved I welcome corrections, as always.
Anyone still awake at the back may remember my earlier post describing a trip round Thailand which fitted my definition of a 'jolly'. Well here is another one much closer to home.
So make yoursevles comfortable(!) on a para seat mes amis and I will begin.
I was in my office on 30 Sqn catching up on the endless paperwork when one of the Flt Cdrs from 24 Sqn (This was our sister squadron at Lyneham sharing the same building.) He was Mike E. who I knew from 48 at Changi when he was a F/O and I was a F/S. 'How would you like a long weekend in France' was his greeting ? Now the epithet 'beware the Greeks bearing gifts' has much going for it, but Mike was such a nice chap and totally straight that not a flcker of suspicion entered my mind. So I took him off to the crewroom for a coffee where all was explained.
An Armee de L'Air transport squadron at Bricy (Orleans) was due to celebrate the 50th anniversary of its formation and the RAF amongst others had been invited to send an a/c. Now how the 'system' agreed to this is a bit hazy but the captain on this trip was to be from 47 Sqn and he had been on the course at the French Test Pilot's School. He never finished the course due to a lady exercising the 'priorite' from the right knocking him off his moped. The fact that she hit him from behind cut no ice with this madam. So somewhere contacts had been made and we were invited.
We were to be an all officer crew and I cannot remember who the Co or Air Eng were or even if we had a G/E, omissions I blame on the weekend itself !
We had to take our Number 1 and Mess Kit.
The French squadron (cannot remeber the number) had very recently reroled with the C130H after years of France denying they needed any and that the C160 could do it all. At the initail beer call I 'understood' that the costs of this purchase had been buried in the office furniture estimates! This 'understanding' of course has nothing to do with the hospitality on offer.
I shall have to pause there as our grandson has arrived and this tale is taking far longer than I expected. Apologies.

[smujsmith]

There you go AA62, got us all dangling. Zetec, Middlesborough, Dougie etc, thanks for the input on multi type squadrons. I'm still curious how 70 operated, but have hopes of an answer soon. Now, AA62, get on with it young man.

Smudge :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Smudge ...

I reckon AA62's Grandson is just checking to make sure his Granddad can still complete a C-130 Load Sheet ;)

[Brian 48nav]

I have sent an email to my old nav' mate Arfur C*****n, who was on 70 when the Herc' first arrived - still awaiting his reply!

[NutLoose]

No problem for us multi tasking groundcrew, if flying was that difficult the groundcrew would have done it (as I did after leaving the employ of Aunt Bet !)
I had been flying privately whilst in the RAF so the transistion was quite easy as well as holding UK CAA maintenance licenses , this was when I was doing my bit at Lyneham, rgds, PH.

Yup, in the RAF on the OCU we were both Wessex and Puma trained engineers, one being Metric and one A/F. Which added to the difference Aircrews were to type though.
Jaguar engineers were supposed to be cross trained on Star Fighter maintenance in case of war, though I never saw one some were cross trained before I arrived.

Currently my CAA and EASA licences cover me on hundreds of types and engines and combinations of thereof.

[smujsmith]

Brian 48 Nav,

When you communicate with Arthur, give him my regards and ask him if he remembers me.

Nutty

Like you, I too have worked on multi aircraft engineering units. It's one thing to maintain different types, but to fly, and maintain currency on multiple types must be hard work, and perhaps we should respect those that did it.

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
I did help my grandson with the Mass (weight in my day !) and Balance portion of his ATPL studies and also with the 'electrickery' and some other bits. He passed first time so I claim the credit ! (Success has many parents, failure is an orphan. ANON)
Back to the story.
One thing puzzled me as to when the Sqn in question was formed and where. No doubt someone may know the amswer.
According to my log book we left on 3 June 1993 and returned on the 5 June.
This does not quite tie up with my memory of the trip, for I am convinced we left on the Friday and came home on the Monday. Not uncommon for the occaisional glitch in the clerking. Or perhaps my unfaithful friend may be up to the usual tricks.
We wanted to take one of the tankers as it would be something very different but this was vetoed so we had to take what we were given.
On the day of departure the Eng and I rolled up at the line to see what we had been allocated.
It was XV 291, 'rentawreck's ugly brother. The list of deferred defects would have consumed a toilet roll. It had just enough hours on the extension to the extension for the round trip and then to get it to Marshalls for the makeover. It was filthy inside and out and smelled of damp.
However it was an unspoken amongst the crew that the PNR would be at VR and short of a fire we were going !
In the event 291 behaved itself and we arrived at Bricy in good order. We were put into a slot ready for the next day's static, with several other nations already in position. We were whisked off for a wet lunch and then to the squadron where the celebrations were well under way. After a 'few' beers we were transported to our Hotel in Orleans for a rest before donning our Number 1 being picked up and taken to have a champagne reception with the Mayor.
Next day it was up to the airfield to man our a/c for the static. I had a good look around the new French 'H' model and noticed it had gaseous oxygen bottles (in the crew 'wardrobe' ) instead of LOX.
After a wet lunch we watched an impressive display by the C160 which did a version of ULLA and TAC landings.
Back in the hotel we had just time for a tactical kip before donning our mess kit and travelling back to the airfield for the Gala dinner. This was held in a hangar emptied of a/c and we acessed it via the side loading door of a C160 emerging down the carpeted ramp into the hangar where a glass of champagne awaited us.
Dinner was a protracted affair but eventually it finished and we went back to the hotel in the early hours of the morning.
Dressed once more in our number 1 uniform we were taken to the cathedral in the morning for a service of blessing. It was very impressive especially as all the historic banners and flags were on display. After the service some of the squadron personnel took us on a pub crawl until we cried enough and went back to the hotel for quiet final evening.
Next day 291 delivered us back to Lyneham with as little fuss as she had shown on the O/B leg.
What struck me then as it does now is how the local community embraced the celebrations of what was 'merely' a 50th anniversary of a local transport squadron. I cannot remember anything quite like this happening in my time in the RAF. I would love to be contadicted !
Anyone else have stories that meet the definition of a 'jolly' ?

[CoffmanStarter]

Great story AA62 :D ... afraid I couldn't track down the French Herc Squadron for you :(

Mainly because my French is nonexistent (even with Google Translate) :ok:

Projet de loi de finances pour 2006 : Défense - Forces aériennes (http://www.senat.fr/rap/a05-102-6/a05-102-616.html)

Coff.

[Ali Qadoo]

Coff, AA62, I think this may be the squadron:

Escadron de transport 2/61 Franche-Comté ? Wikipédia (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escadron_de_transport_2/61_Franche-Comt%C3%A9)

The numbering system on French squadrons works on the basis of squadron/wing, so 2/61 would be the second squadron of the 61st wing.

PS, even as a non-Albert chap, I still think this is one of the best threads on here in ages.

[CoffmanStarter]

Many thanks Ali ... much appreciated :ok:

Glad you are enjoying the Thread ...

Coff.

[ksimboy]

Recall several years ago being part of a 2 ship that was tasked to take part in an airfield assault at an airfield in France with 2 C160s. We met the 160 crews at Leeming for a day of rehearsals, which went surprisingly smoothly. A social evening in Bedale ensued where the French crews were introduced to Black Sheep and several other fine local ales, followed by the inevitable ASCOT curry. Several of the visitors announced they weren't fans of spicy food but allowed us to order the milder curries cooked in wine!(Vindaloos). Certainly was a picture, and i can only imagine the odours on the flight decks on the French Aircraft.

[ancientaviator62]

Ali,
mny thanks for your input and kind remarks. I had seen the website but I still cannot reconcile the 'anniversaire' celebrations we attended with the squadron formation. Or am I being more dense than usual ?

[Dougie M]

An epic exercise was held at Evreux when the French C130s said that they would brief the sortie and we could lead it. They would tag on the back.
Well the plan was to arrive at Evreux in small groups of 3 to ease the ATC problem and rendezvous in the town. We arrived as MSP lead in the third wave. The RV was already heaving, and on entry the Rene like patron took our allowances and gave each of us 4 litre bottles of rouge. The sight of S****y S*****n with his head swathed in loo paper bandages bloodstained with wine singing WW1 melodies gave us the clue to drink heavily. The rest of the stream arrived in batches picked up their wine and joined in. I don't remember anybody taking solids during the soiree. I think the patron retired to St Tropez after that evening. The late night trans-hotel migration was like herding cats with many anecdotes unfit for these pages. On hearing that Postman Pat had broken a sink in the hotel we investigated only to find that it was a surplus sink he had found on a building site and wanted to take home but it slipped while he was fumbling for his key.
The unwelcome morning assembly looked like Afghan refugees. The interminable hand drawn French briefing slides drew yawns, snores, and abominable smells. After launching, the gorilla of 15 of us and 2 Frogs bimbled across most of France to the DZ at Causse de Comtal where the infamous climbing DZ saw the march of the MSPs like giant footprints up the hillside, bracketing a corrugated metal citroen bread van as it careered across the drop zone. Once we had tidied up and regrouped the recovery to Lyneham on SKE via Berry Head was a subdued affair, with an even more subdued debrief in STS.
I think that was what started my attack of gout.

[ancientaviator62]

I remember being down route somewhere when a Noratlas parked up beside us. We had our usual few cases of beer they had what was tantamount to a full bar lashed down one side of the a/c. Respect !

[ksimboy]

Dougie, that was the exercise where low loaders kept turning up at Toulose with the Army's newest concept vehicle, the flat pack land rover ! Even funnier was it was decided that the recovery vehicle was far too valuable to be dropped on an MSP so it was offloaded at Evreux and sent back to UK on a flat floor frame, with the windscreen tied to the side wall to be refitted slow time at base. Prior to landing at Lyneham the message was passed to the crew the vehicle was urgently needed in France, so the driver and his mate drove off the ramp and towards the ferry, with the windscreen found afterwards , at least they had goggles!

[Ali Qadoo]

AA62, I think I've found what you were looking for. It looks like 2/61 is indeed the squadron you partied with. If you take a look at this site HISTORIQUE DU « FRANCHE-COMTE » (http://antam.fr/Ancien%20site/Cham%27s/Rubriques/Memoire_souvenir/historiques/historique_%20Franche_Comte.htm)

you'll see that 2/61 is descended from a pre-war reconnaissance unit 2/52. Under the terms of the 1940 armistice, it was one of the squadrons the French were allowed to keep. It was posted to North Africa (AFN=Afrique française du Nord) and deactivated, reforming with B26s after the Allied landings in 1943 - this would tie in with the 50th anniversary bash in 1993. In 1946 it became a transport squadron, 2/62, before being rebadged as 2/61 in 1955.

[smujsmith]

Ksimboy, Dougie, keep it coming gentlemen, that sounds like the fleet I served as a GE all those years ago.

Ali, that link looks like it gives AA62 his answers. Top marks indeed.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

I believe we are all in for a treat when Drag manages to fire up his scanner this weekend :ok:

[Brian W May]

At this bloody rate, this thread will still be going on the 70th Anniversary !!! :cool:

[ancientaviator62]

Ali,
many thanks. It does indeed all line up nicely. I had wondered if they were part of the Vichy airforce in North Africa as I could not connect them with any of the Free French squadrons in the UK.

[ancientaviator62]

Anyone else remember some of the Belize reinforcement trips via Santa Maria and the provision of 'Santa Maria Squash ' with the inflight catering ?

[Mal Drop]

AA62, GBII/61 was a Vichy bomber squadron based in Blida (Algeria) that operated Douglas DC-7s.

Source: Sutherland, J. and Canwell, D. (2011) Vichy Air Force at War, Barnsley, Pen & Sword Aviation.

[Trumpet_trousers]

Was there recently with a more modern machine.. :ok:
Lots of C-160s in the graveyard on the far side of the field, and a handful of C130s on the flightline. Apparently, the C130 crews are regarded by their fellow C160 brethren as untermensch - the cheek of it!

[dragartist]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/Skydel2B_resize_zps7ilktjlu.jpg
Thanks Coff for the upload destructions - I hope I have followed them rigorously.


Skydel and the infamous drop nose pins has been mentioned a time or two. Along with the inappropriate tool - the 1000 tensioner.


I came across a Kodak box containing some pics Pruners may be interested in. If this works I will have another go at others.


Photo credit must go to A2 E2 at Boscombe. the date 1990 so I guess I may have picked these up at JATE or in a muck out when the S&AD or Herc IPT moved offices. I hate throwing stuff in the skip. I did send a fair bit of material to the Air Hysterical branch. I think this is where we first kicked off with the Special Device no 19 the gingerbread man.


More to follow if it works. I will then have a go with the article I shared with Coff and AA62 from an RAF PR Mag I found in the summer house.

[chickenlover]

Dougie
Does this venue look familiar :}
FB
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img734_zpspjqfqmxr.jpg

[dragartist]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/LLP%20x%20over%20resize_zpso3niitfh.jpg


I appear to have the hang of this. Thanks Coff.


The topic of the picture is the Low Level Parachute and image credit to the marvellous JATE Photogs circa 1994. the aim of the trial would be to determine safe separation during simultaneous stick parachuting. Both side doors used. The aircraft would have been a K but we did repeat the exercise with the J in South Africa. Khaki chutes went out one side white the other. It was important to get a stagger between sides to avoid entanglement. The short aircraft was worse than the long one. the LLP opened very quickly so was more of an issue than the PX4. When we did the J we found that without tanks and these 6 bladed props the cross over was worse. Sim sticks was not cleared from the short J. In latter years the only chutes we had were Khaki. (Ok have your argument over American Olive Drab or NATO Green!) Khaki works for me! the colours changed over the years and lead to my having to sign of numerous production permits (concessions).
I guess the K trials would have been done at El Cento - the usual haunt of the era. China Lake and YPG became more usual haunts in latter days. The South Africa det was in an effort to save costs. Not sure if it ever did but the game parks were more interesting than spending every night in Applebys.

[dragartist]

Sharing memories of my first France det. We set off one Sunday to Centre De Air Porte (CAP) part of the DGA at Toulouse. Took our own minibus. Finding parking outside the hotel was fun. I now know what bumpers are for. For some reason we had to share rooms. top to tail in a double bed. I think Colonel Robin had his own room. After a day of exchange technological briefings the following day we were bussed out to the DZ overlooked by some Grande house where we were served all sorts of niceties. Over the radio came a shout that the Transal was on the run in. So off we set to the patio. Load gone. The French used lots of timex troop chutes in clusters for stores. they all got tangled and the load piled in. A big cheer and sumptuous applause and back in for some more shampoo. half and hour of small talk, the radio bust into life. Out we all went for the C130 drop. Exactly the same result with a bigger load a bigger bang and much more applause. After the obligatory exchange of gifts, framed pictures, and the like we set off via the supermarket for our flight back to Brize. with all the booze it took two trips in the minibus.


Some will know that most of the JATE team lived in the east wing of the mess. My overriding memory is having to put up with the stink of rotting cheese for the rest of the week. The cleaning lady had complained to Mr P. but the owner of the cheese refused to throw away his cache. he was not going home for a few weeks. I went home for the weekend and came back the following week to find the smell lingering.


The JATE team provided MALDROP cover. I certainly recall the discussion over the MSPs into the hillside mentioned above. Capt PG telling me how luck he was to still be alive. I think one landed either side of him in the dark.


I had several more dets to France doing airdrop stuff. Perhaps that's where MJ coined the phrase you are not allowed to smoke 8 hrs prior to flying or drink within 50 yds of the aircraft.

[Bts70]

That picture is just centre spread Role equipment porn. All the side seats correctly stowed, all the rollers no doubt checked for security as well as the side guidance spigots.......... I must go for a lie down.

[CoffmanStarter]

Well played Drag ... Looking forward to the rest of your Kodak Box :D

Best ...

Coff.

[dragartist]

BTs,
It was brand spanking new Mk2 B. They kept a set at Boscombe in pristine condition for trials. going by the other pics in the series it was around the same time as PURIBAD was being developed at Boscombe with AML. If I feel brave I will post the others in the series.


After a few weeks in the hands of some and with repeated bashing with the 10K tie downs all the drop nose pins were knackered and the floor pegs bruised. 30 years later the rollers were in better order than the yankee stuff 10 years on.

[aeroid]

Post 2710 I remember it well. In fact I was in almost as it started. On the 25th Jan '72 (log books out chaps) me , the team and XV 302 went to Waddington and then next day to Lajes, obviously supporting the tin triangle somewhere Stateside. It must have had the making of a good jolly because most of us had our golf clubs with us. However when we got to Lajes we got the message that the Blat a Guat contest had started and we were to position to Santa Maria and get involved with the rest of the slip just about to start. Then it was Bermuda -Nassau - Belize etc. complete with crew fruit juice Rosy Matoose. So we can actually claim that we went to war complete with golf clubs........how civilised.

With reference to multi tasking I believe that the Met Recce Flight at Farnbrough flew the Varsity, Herc, Canberra and possibly the Dakota as part of their job. I recall D... P..t telling me that he did his night cat on three types on the same evening!

[dragartist]

All very cumbersome - I don't have the patience these days like Coff. I wonder if I ever did!
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/Front%20Cover_0001%20Resize_zps3qye4x4w.jpg


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/Taking%20the%20load%20p1resize_zpsfqgp1iiy.jpg


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/taking%20the%20load%20P2_0001Resize_zpst2esieki.jpg


Page 3 and 4 to follow

[dragartist]

.http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/taking%20the%20load%20P3_resize_zps9gljbw0o.jpg


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/taking%20the%20load%20P4_0001Resize_zpsvbenrtom.jpg


Copywrite belongs to the Crown.
Cover photo attributed to Sgt Rick Brewell. The pilot is said to be Flt Lt Simon Thompson (I think he was on JATE flying section when I was there at the time of MM being grounded)


The article is attributed to David Hutchinson. I wonder if he is still around or even lurks on PPRuNe. Other contributions from MALMs Holland (I knew Dutch from the HOEU), Wright, and Ferries.


Apologies for the poor text on the previous pages. I hope those who want to can read it.


I had a lot of time for the ALMs during my 12 or so years involved in airdrop. I hope the article gives them the credit they deserve.


The reason I kept the mag all those years was the article on Snoopy. I had done some work on Snoopy in the 80s. If there is demand I will have a go at uploading it.


BR Drag

[ancientaviator62]

dragartist,
what memories that pristine role fit brings back. Keep the pics coming. In general service it soon looked worn but the role equippers did a great job of taking care of it.
On a double MSP drop it was not uncommon for the ramp set of HD rollers to jam after the first platform departed. The second platform would then cut flats in the roller as it departed. Sometimes the HD rollers would be spun up so fast that the grease would melt and you could smell it.

[ancientaviator62]

Paras crossing over behind the Herc has always been a problem whatever parachute was used. It is the nature of the beast. On sim sticks with a full load of paras in war config it was impossible to maintain a stagger despite what the armchair experts claimed. We tried every which way to do it, to little avail. Once the 'train' started moving it was very difficult to control as the paras only ambition in life was get out of 'that bloody aircraft' !

[ancientaviator62]

Drag,
many thanks for posting the article. It sounds such a good job I may just apply ! In this PC dominated world my age should be no bar. Despite my time as an ALM I have never seen this article before . Yes please for the Snoopy article any any others you have found in your shed turnout.
Welcome to the club of Coffman's converts. He has a lot to answer for !

[ancientaviator62]

aeroid,
as requested I have consulted my faithful friend and it informs me that I set of for Belize via Lajes on 17 Jan 72 in XV 211. We appear to have only got as far as Bermuda before coming home.
On the 29 Jan we did the round trip via Santa Maria, Bermuda and Nassau in what my log book says was Exercise Cadnam. It was obviously a slip by then as the a/c number changes for every leg. Looks like we spent three days in Nassau !

[dragartist]

A couple more from the box


From JATE - the date 1998. Auto Gravity Ejection. Goodness me so many TLAs. We had ILP (In Line pairs) B4s (Block 4s) and various other permutations and combinations.


A barrier rigged from chains and the infamous 10K tensioners was rigged to stop the load going forward. A flagellator connected the drogue parachute strop to a set of separator boxes. Overhead chains kept the load on the floor till P-quite a time. On Green on the drogue released from the bomb rack, some shear pins broke in these boxes which left the aircraft followed by the loads trundling out under gravity (due to floor angle and a climb.


There was several other methods for despatching one tons. It was not until the J came along did we get any harmonisation. The Buffer stop replaced the chain barrier. The retrieval winch was used to pull a pin out of a strap.


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/195%20AGE%20resize_zpsw4999pww.jpg


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w35/dragartist1/195%20AGE%20SC15%201998%20resize_zpsn5ajxhx2.jpg

[ancientaviator62]

As I mentionedd in an earlier post I always regarded AGE drops as being in the laps of the gods especailly when the captain leveled the a/c with part of the load still inside.
In respect of the article I knew all the loadmasters mentioned and Hutch was on of my troops on 30 before he was commissioned. We lost Dave Ferries at far too early an age a number of years ago.

[Brian W May]

Dave Ferries - didn't he have a brother Ian Ferries, a Nav on 30 Sqn?

PS, the skipper does look a bit like Simon - sad he's not standing up, you'd know for certain! :p

Simon relatively recently retired from Handling Squadron and I hear he's happy as a sandboy - best of luck to him.

[ksimboy]

Brian, Simon probably was standing up (or had his seat fully up!). I remember IFF as a flight commander on XXIV what a bundle of laughs he was , although he did get a career debrief from one of the Sqn loadies on a day out at the Guinness brewery at Park Royal.

[Mal Drop]

When IFF was a Flt Cdr on 24 Sqn, I may have sent him a 'weather lovely, wish you were here' postcard from Trondheim.

/More accurately, from near Trondheim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway).
//Later found out that there might have been a bit of a witch-hunt on 24 to find the guilty party.
///I was on 30 Sqn.

[Brian W May]

Brian, Simon probably was standing up (or had his seat fully up!). I remember IFF as a flight commander on XXIV what a bundle of laughs he was , although he did get a career debrief from one of the Sqn loadies on a day out at the Guinness brewery at Park Royal.

Yes he was a bundle of fun - he was a Flt Cdr for some of the NCA or all. So unlike his brother.

But, yep THAT was the Dave Ferries you meant . . . sorry for the thread drift - but it's all Hercules related. Lets not go into the Nav Flt Cdrs on 30 - RG and AG who served with JH (living proof that "living without a sense of humour" is not a terminal disease).

[smujsmith]

Nice to see a mention of Dave Ferries (I always thought it was Ferris). If he is the MALM I am thinking of I remember spending an evening in our hotel bar, and a few friendly beers, before his return to UK the next day. Our crew had just replaced his on a US Det. We were all shocked to hear that Dave had had a massive heart attack within hours of arriving home. It must have been a huge shock to his family. A great guy, who, I enjoyed many routes with, and one whose passing left a big hole in the fleet. RIP Dave. I'm sure Ksimboy can confirm that we are talking of the same man.

Smudge

[gopher01]

On a similar experience with trips to French bases I was tasked with a day trip to somewhere in France to pick up a returning Captain who was finishing an exchange posting on the C160. The prep consisted of wear No 1 and don't worry about your toolkit! A rather motley bunch of Aircrew boarded the frame and off we went.
On arrival it was park up and leave the aircraft to the tender care off the crew who were to fly us back and off to the Squadron HQ where the hospitality began, drinkies all round, many rounds of toasts and the down to the cellar bar for lunch which was accompanied by more drinkies and toasts. Whether it was a deliberate choice or not lunch was Roast Lamb and this was at the time, you may remember it, of the lamb war with France. Memories start to fade after that but I do remember the pilot sitting next to me having his wings sawn off his jacket by a Frenchman with a steak knife.
The day finished with a visit to the local vintners where a considerable amount of tasting took part before purchases were made and a return to the base and aircraft followed. On getting everybody on board a head count revealed a shortage of one, the guy we had come out to bring home but he eventually turned up and a return to Lyneham ensued.
Who it was decided to park the aircraft right outside the Terminal gave the occupants the sight of a remarkable number of people very the worse for wear after a day of Entente Cordial falling off the aircraft and departing the scene quite quickly!
Not all day trips were quite as entertaining!

[gopher01]

Just read in " Pilot " that a certain Sqn Ldr C...s F..d MBE has been invested as the latest Master of the Honourable Company of Air Pilots, could this be the certain occupant of SF for more years than I can remember, the photo certainly looks like him if you visualise him as the lean green fighting machine of the seventies and eighties!
C...s managed to achieve fame as the first casualty of the Salisbury det for the Rhodesian independence monitoring when he dived in the pool at the Rhodesian AOCs place while there for the New Years day barbie, doing in his ear drum and being the OPs officer after that which resulted in N...l S......S crew having to bum a co-pilot when we flew. Memories!

[ancientaviator62]

Smudge,
we or at least I am talking about the same Dave Ferries. His brother was a Flt Cdr Nav on 24 Sqn.

[November4]

crew having to bum a co-pilot when we flew

Thank goodness I was on MAMS, if that is what the crew had to do on each flight.....

[ExAscoteer]

Thank goodness I was on MAMS, if that is what the crew had to do on each flight.....


I thought that's what MAMS did without flying! ;)

[aeroid]

AA62. 3 days in Nassau, but someone had to do it. Emerald Beach as I recall.

[smujsmith]

Thanks for that AA62, the man will forever hold my respect. Gopher 01, C***s F**d is also someone I have "special memories" of. Good to hear he has been recognised for his abilities. Anyone like to hear about an Albert co pilot taking up the offer of a Fulton recovery ? If so, I will compile before posting as its a bit involved.

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

aeroid,
the Emerald Beach it usually was. We would consume the 'Santa Maria Squash', well chilled from being in the cargo door, on the beach !
Smudge tarry not with thy tale of the Co and the Fulton System.

[gopher01]

Way back in the mists of old times we had a G/E detached to Nassau for a month at a time to help cover the Belize run which initially involved staying in a Hotel with taxis to and from the airport as required. Representation was made to the bean counters that this was not only expensive but if needed in a hurry trying to find a taxi in say the early hours of the morning could be difficult resulting in the G/E not getting to the airport as quickly as possible.
After a lot of toing and froing, including claims that the G/E might enjoy himself too much if an apartment and hire car were provided, financial sense ruled the day and such accommodation was arranged, this of course was the prime reason for raising this problem, the G/Es section being interested only in saving the Air Force money!!The system worked well, everybody was happy apart from me as it was cancelled the month before it was my turn as being surplus to requirements as the Det G/E wasn't having enough to do.
Memories of the Emerald beach include Wallbanger mix in the washbasin if a small crew or in the bath if a bigger crew, funny how there was never any left! That and losing a pair of sunglasses whilst out sailing one of the hotels Hobie catamarans. That was on a three day tech delay for a turbine overheat keyer unit U/S, we had to wait for one to come from Southern in Miami who wouldn't send it until the RAF paid for the last spares they had supplied, so we had to sit and wait while Upavon argued with Miami, it was hell!

[smujsmith]

Between 19 August 94 and 11 September 94 Ascot 4792 (XV300) operated by a 47 SF Flight crew, deployed to support two exercises in the USA. One at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, with 21 SAS and the other at 29 Palms, California with 22 SAS. Curiously our captain was the very chap mentioned by Gopher 01 previously as being recently acknowledged for his ability. I was one of the two Ground Engineers deployed with the aircraft, and crikey, was it a trip. Before the duo exercise support was commenced, we enjoyed an exchange visit with 8th SOS at Hurlbert field, who had the proud boast of dropping the worlds biggest conventional bomb, I think, the "Daisy cutter", we were given a great welcome and after a few drinks at the arrival barbie, a guided tour of their aircraft (they operated several versions of Albert including the AC130H and the MC130E Combat Talon). Our Co pilot was particularly interested in the latter which had the Fulton Recovery system fitted, though I believe at this time was defunct. We spent around 6 days there, both flying and socialising with some great fellow Albert operators. My main memory was the hole in one I managed during the golf "tournament", but flukes are not part of this story. It was arranged that our Co would get his wish to experience a Fulton recovery, and on the day before our departure for 29 Palms we headed to sea.

As I had it explained, many USAF and other military benefitted from being given boats and aircraft confiscated from drug smugglers, 8th SOS had a very powerful motor launch on which we set sail, and I was allocated to be the driver, so much for common sense, I had never driven a boat in my life. As we approached a small wooden jetty, to collect the wives of our hosting crew, it was obvious that my abilities as a boat driver were definitely limited. Thankfully the ladies ran away as I demolished their jetty. Having been replaced as steersman, and given a handful of Jim Beam and Coke, the ladies were boarded and we set off for a location just off Fort Walton beach. The game was afoot.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/d505c322b9e1713a0e9f592ec118c257_zpsen7m2ury.jpg
Fulton gear deployed

As we cruised toward the briefed point at sea, our Co Pilot was dressed in the Fulton suit and positioned on the bow of the boat, after which a "balloon", just like in the James Bond film, was attached to his harness and deployed a few hundred feet above us. As this was happening, the OC 8th SOS was in radio contact with the intended recovery aircraft. All the effects were there, location calls, identifying the target and a countdown to the actual hook up. I can't fault the Co pilot in his bravery at even thinking of doing that mental manoeuvre, but, as the aircraft flew in, we all thought we might be asking for a new Co soon. Of course, the whole thing was a wind up, as the recovery aircraft overflew to one side, a foot in the back of our Co pilot put him in the water, and I'm sure, we all breathed a sigh of relief. No doubt this was a well practised spoof by 8th SOS, but I'm damn sure we all thought it was about to happen. To this day I am full of admiration for the fact that the Co was quite happy to "have a go". Our Co at the time posts on PPRUNE so, if he reads this it might bring back a memory or two. The rest of the exercise went very well, transiting between Kentucky and California burned off some 110 hours or so, with some exhilarating low level flying, including a 2 hour NVG trip up the Mississippi river. Those were the days, or would it be daze?

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
great story. It always seemed to be the co pilot involved in these japes. Remember marking the nosewheels to see who would end up buying the beer ? Amazing number of times the co lucked out !

[smujsmith]

AA62,

I think the Co pilots demise with the nose wheel trick was more to do with the rotatable hub caps :rolleyes: ISTR we put our names around the hub cap and the one at the bottom bought a round of drinks. As the GE, when the challenge was on, it was usually my job to rotate the Co to the bottom, as I could not be seen from the Flt Deck, and the often suspicious Co. The ALM was also often required to remain in view until the Co got to check the losing name. You are correct, it was often his own.

Smudge :ok:

[Alcazares48]

I found this site completely by accident a few days ago. I had googled “Andover Fuel Tanks” and ended up looking at a nice photograph courtesy of "AA".
Now I was hooked, I spent the next few days skimming through 138 pages of anecdotes and stories which covered the best 13 years of my career. I saw references to people that I had known, some great, some not so, places I had been to and incidents that I had taken part in.
I left the Hercules fleet with great regret in 1992 and the RAF with great relief in 2003.
Until this forum jogged my memory I did not miss a thing, I now know that I do! Great Days.
Nice to see my old boss and friend "AA" sharing his vast knowledge of the C130 with others, his memory and recall is phenomenal, and his photo collection amazing, did he ever do any work? We hope you and Bevvers are both well.

[jindabyne]

zetec

Khormaksar print?

[Brian 48nav]

I have been informed that John Lambert has just passed away.

John was a co-pilot on 5 course ( I think ) then posted to 24 at Lyneham. Following his captain course he joined 30 as a captain in 1971. An exceptional pilot, probably not what Flt Cdrs' dreams were made off!

He took his 8year option in '73 and joined Britannia Airways based in Birmingham. IIRC he had a spell with Kuwait before joining Royal Air Maroc as a skipper.

Sadly he suffered a motor cycle accident c1981, no he wasn't speeding, just had the misfortune to hit a pothole while stooging around house-hunting in Devon. He was severally injured and spent the rest of his life as a quadriplegic confined to a wheelchair.

Funeral is on April 10th, PM for details.

RIP John.

[smujsmith]

Brian,

Sad news indeed. I'm sure we all would send our sympathy and hopes for Johns family and close friends. The loss of a colleague is always bad news.

Alcazares48,

Glad you have found us, and your memories and opinions are more than welcome to a thread dedicated to the the aircraft, people and the operations it was involved in. Have no fear of your own reminiscenses, I bet you have a story or two to tell.

Smudge :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Alcazares48,
welcome to the forum ! We obviously know each other very well !
Apart from struggling with a bout of the seasonal lurgi we are both well.
Perhaps you could send me a PM if you wish to be 'outed' in private.
Now you have found this site perhaps you could share your stories and pics with us.