Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules

[Brian 48nav]

When I lived in Crudwell, '70-72, there was a nav' in the village who was apparently on the Colerne crew - I think his first name was Noel, he was a bit of an unsociable chap ( confirmed by my old mate J** O******d, who had been on the OCU with him ) so we never saw him in The Plough.


I guess he was ex-Hastings or Bevs.

[CoffmanStarter]

Good morning AA62 ...

Looking at the CONDEC pic ... I'm guessing it must have been taken in the early 70's before all airfield equipment got dawbed in green paint ... and then adorned with a yellow band so people could see it/not collide with it :ugh:

Presumably visual cueing became a little more challenging during loading then ?

I even remember seeing dustbins "toned down" ... including the yellow band !

[Dengue_Dude]

Thought I might have had some comments about the building in pic on post 1239

In my day we always seemed to stay in Block 100/101/102 each room with French Doors and a urinal (OK it was a sink . . .)

Happy days, Masirah detachments shuttling between there and Akrotiri (Masirah closed behind us and Akrotiri was closed in front of us, also having to go into the hold because AKR refused to open before published time (yes the Fire Crews were available, we asked))!!

[ExAscoteer]

Ah yes Block 101.

And when they built the brand new Transit Block for AT crews behind the Officers' Mess what happened?

Oh yes, the bloody scribbblies, stackers and schoolteachers moved in forcing the crews to continue using crappy accomodation.

Plus ca change...

[Jumping_Jack]

Indeed, the Permanent Staff did move into decent accom, but only after Block 99 was eaten by termites. For you transitory types the accom was good enough :-) From all the tales you tell you weren't using the blocks to sleep in anyway......

[1.3VStall]

ExA,

No initiative - you should have shacked up with a schoolie!;)

[ancientaviator62]

Coffman,
yes my CONDEC (Consolidated Diesel Electic Co -a division of GM if I recall) pic was taken in the early 70's as you can just see the custard colour scheme. I think it was taken at Boscombe on one of the Heavy Drop Courses.
The chaps in the red berets are from 16 HD Company who rigged the loads in those days. Tech support was from REME. Later on as the Para Brigade contracted and 16 HD disbanded the rigging was done by Air Despatchers of 47 AD Squadron.

[ancientaviator62]

Brian,
I can see the Nav you refer to in my mind's eye, not very sociable.
I see you lived in Crudwell. I lived in Hankerton !

[ksimboy]

Recall sending off to Lockheed for a 1000 hrs badge for one of the RB199 s carried during GW1, worst bit was they sent it to the Sqn!

[ancientaviator62]

Looking at my pic of the CONDEC again you get a good view of the 'ducksbill' that featured in my story of the MSP hitting the a/c as it departed.
I was told that the 'ducksbill was where the Aircraft Data Recorder was supposed to have been fitted but never was. Would have really aided the investigation of the early crashes at least. I assume it was cost again.
Does the 'J' have one ?

[Mal Drop]

More happy GW1 memories have been brought back by the CONDEC pic. We were driving in to KKIA in Saudi about to start a day of the 'spoke' bit of 'hub and spoke' ops. Our skipper, a Sqn Ldr with a reputation for being taciturn (but in actuality possessed of a fully functional and particularly wicked sense of humour), was behind the wheel when we spotted a young movements officer of the blonde and female variety who was well aware she was drawing admiring glances from the male contingent. Waving at us and adjusting her Ray-Bans to BEST effect she drove straight into a large stack of cable drums which seemed delighted to obey Newton's second law of motion and start off all over the ASP on a series of exciting adventures.

Our trusty minibus swerved to a halt as the skipper (who was now doubled-up laughing in the driving seat) temporarily lost the ability to operate mechanical transport i.a.w. aircraft handling area local procedures and I fell out of the passenger door with similar breathing difficulties. It was just one of those utterly priceless detachment moments that made life on the Albert fleet such a joy.

[ksimboy]

J has a CVR also, which records take off and landing periods I believe. Gone are the days of ripping through the Sqn Social register en route.

[ExAscoteer]

Our skipper, a Sqn Ldr with a reputation for being taciturn (but in actuality possessed of a fully functional and particularly wicked sense of humour...

S** V**** by any chance? Or was it his Uncle that you took down route?

[CoffmanStarter]

I came across an article produced by Lockheed Martin as part of the 60th celebrations ... some interesting stuff ... I thought fellow PPRuNe Albert Threaders might appreciate the link :ok:

You may know that the C-130 Hercules is operated by 70 countries. You might even be able to name several of C-130’s 70+ variants. But, here are some facts and figures that you may not know about the Herc ...

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/lockheed/us/news/features/2014/herculesbythenumbers/_jcr_content/center_content/image.img.jpg/1408055231553.jpg
Image Credit : Lockheed Martin : Prototype YC-130 Tail No : 33397

Hercules by the Numbers · Lockheed Martin (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/features/2014/herculesbythenumbers.html)

There are other Herc links off this header page ...

Also footage of the 1st flight of the prototype YC-130 ... 23rd August 1954.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=sGxuu1XpbAA

Best ...

Coff.

[Mal Drop]

Ex-Ascoteer, it was deffo his uncle. Without a single doubt in my mind, the finest officer I ever had the privilege of serving with!

[ExAscoteer]

I'd agree with you there Mal Drop. He was one of the finest Flt Cdrs under which it has been my pleasure to serve.

[ancientaviator62]

Ah S.. V....,
did lots of trips with him, especially tanking. I had reached the stage of who I went flying with was more important than where I went. Being in a position to choose that is what I did. S.. and I got on very well indeed.

[fergineer]

Smudge three people on here that I respect, Ancient Dengue and you mentioned Kiwlhang a man who convinced me to go aircrew. S-- V---- was a fine pilot to fly with as well.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000167A_zps4afed322.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000167A_zps4afed322.jpg.html)

When loading heavy drop we always had someone watching the top of the load.
Lots of clearance in this training load but a high frame war load was MUCH closer to the cargo door when loading. We sometimes had to have the elevators in the up position. This for me was the most nervous bit of the whole trip.
The CONDEC was designed to to air transportable by the Herc as was most of the US supplied ground equipment. Not always the case with UK kit especially that for other a/c. For example loading the RR Conway with the very low transporter called for a special technique. It would be winched up the ramp until it reached the start of the cargo compartment floor. Then the ramp would be VERY carefully raised to reduce the angle between the two. By this time the nosewheel was off the ground ! As the engine was winched into the a/c the nosewheel would settle back down where it belonged. All those years trying to avoid this situation and here is an authorised scheme to do just that.

[StopStart]

As someone who only did a mere two tours on the K (Co and Capt) in the mid nineties I am unable to contribute to the tales of the Changi Slip with the old and bold here. My subsequent 11 years (and indeed ongoing as a reservist) on the J puts me firmly in the other camp too.

That said I believe the picture below (taken whilst I was on the K) sums up the RAF C130 experience, whatever the variant....

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k512/stickybloke/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-09/01339078-7DE8-4773-B997-0992CFA8288B.jpg

:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

StopStart,
great pic and it does indeed generate many (blurred) memories.
There is no 'other camp' as far as I am concerned, this thread is about the 'K' as it has now like some of us been retired.
Seeing the pic reminds me of the Turkish invasion of Northern Cyprus. We were doing refugee evacuation back to the UK (27 different nationalities). The Turkish AF had bombed the Keo Brewery in Limasol by error when targeting a Cyprus National Guard post. This 'war crime' meant no beer at Akrotiri.
The UK breweries came to the rescue and we flew beer out and evacuees home.
However after a short while the breweries refused to send any more beer.
The empty aluminium kegs were not being returned and they took a dim view of this fact. So a couple of specials were laid on whose sole task was the repatriation of empty beer kegs. The beer supply resumed and it was happiness all round.

[salad-dodger]

The Turkish AF had bombed the Keo Brewery in Limasol by error when targeting a Cyprus National Guard post. This 'war crime' meant no beer at Akrotiri.
Bombing the Keo brewery a war crime, really! Medals should be awarded to services to mankind. Now if it had been the Carlsberg factory............

The picture makes it look like you had an early night, empty seats and still dark :E

S-D

[Trumpet_trousers]

AA62: re your picture in #1269:

what is the ac in the background? It looks like a Typhoon to me? (Not current Typhoon, but older vintage..)

I was always a Keo man myself... especially the 'reasonably priced' brandy for poor attempts at making brandy sours in UK...

[goudie]

I was always a Keo man myself.

So was I until I drank a warm one in error. It tasted bloody awful, was just bearable when ice crystals were floating in the glass.

This really is an enjoyable thread. I read in every day, as do many others judging by the numbers.

1200 odd posts 102,000 views!

Well done Coffman, smudge, ancientaviator62 et al for keeping it going.

[ExAscoteer]

AA62: re your picture in #1269:

what is the ac in the background? It looks like a Typhoon to me? (Not current Typhoon, but older vintage..)



Looks like a Spit XVI to me.

[ExAscoteer]

That said I believe the picture below (taken whilst I was on the K) sums up the RAF C130 experience, whatever the variant....



:ok:

Oh yes!

Chock in, send the Loadie and Eng to TAAS to collect 2 cases of Charlie.

Do paperwork.

Get bus via OM - send Co in to get keys to block.

Arrive at block.

Drink 2 cases of Charlie and tell meningi war stories.

Tac zzzzs

Shower.

Hit OM bar for as many Brandy Sours as you can drink.

Kebab on strip, mucho Cockingawful and flaming Filfars.


It was a hard life...

[ancientaviator62]

I think the a/c in the background of 1269 is indeed a Spitfire although what mark I leave to the more knowledgeable. I had always assumed that the Keo and Carlsberg brands of beer were brewed in the same place and only the labels were changed to protect the famous !
In respect of StopStart's remark about the Changi Slip I do not think it has had a mention. However the Changi TOURS, have. Whenever I mentioned that I had done a tour in FEAF, look in peoples eyes was not one of ennui but of envy!

[Xercules]

As a Co I was on the other crew when the Albert taxi-ed itself into the hangar (fortunately). However, not long after and shortly after my LHS conversion, I was invited to spend almost 3 weeks as OC Kingsfield (a Hercules Captain role specified by the BoI) for a free fall training exercise. The rest of the activation party included a WO(ATC) local qualified. Almost as a joke I suggested that this could just as well be a Flt Lt (W) ATC LOCAL Q (Mrs X was one such) Flt Cdr R.. L.... could not see why not, nor could the para major at Upavon. All was well until 2 days before we left when the Queen Bee at Epi heard there was to be a WRAF officer at KF - consternation and alarm there were no suitable facilities at KF. After much wheeling and dealing by others at Gp sanity eventually prevailed and off we went to a most enjoyable period in the sun.

During the exercise, the Major commanding teenie weenie airways at Dhekelia called in to ask if he and his troops could fly in to inspect Albert. I suggested that he wait and talk to the Captain. Imagine the scene - Major immaculately dressed, shoes bulled and not a crease out of place. Albert lands, shuts down and I and Major wait to greet Captain who came down the crew door steps clad in flip flops and bathers, towel slung over shoulder and shades on (we had promised to take the crew swimming between lifts).

Again v shortly after in June I was tasked with delivering 38G TCW to KF for a no-notice deployment. The only problem was their activation signal said deploy to Addis Ababa (in the middle of the rainy season). They all showed up at Benson with wellies, rainwear and umbrellas but we were not allowed to tell. It got a trifle difficult, however, when asking through Stn Ops for an overweight T/O to carry the extra fuel for Akrotiiri to KF to Akrotiri - all the loads had been very carefully calculated we were told They were not overly amused when the doors opened 8hrs later to see the sands of Cyprus.

The same 38G TCW exercise was just ending when the Turkish Army arrived and TCW was already in place for evacuations - luck or did somebody know something?. Anyway being Lyneham based we were no longer allowed into KF that being jealously guarded by and for NEAF. My main memory of the evacuation was being offered 6x45 gallon drums of water to bring our empty aircraft back in trim. It seemed absurd to be exporting water from Cyprus to the UK and I refused, saying get me 6 passengers instead. Some argument about proper processing ensued before finally bringing me the 6 who travelled back in an otherwise completely empty cargo bay. I also remember, though did not witness, the "no football, no fires" speech supposedly given by B... 'Wingeing will' K...

As has often been said - happy days now long ago.

[ancientaviator62]

On the Cyprus evac I seem to recall that some Brit women refused to fly home on 'Albert' and insisted on a VC 10 ! If it was up to me they would still be there now.
We all quickly cottoned on that when contacting French ATC it was useful to tell them we had French Nationals on board, whether we had or not. This resulted in VIP ATC treatment instead of the usual slide down the pecking order.

[Dengue_Dude]

Operation Ablaut (if memory serves). I was holding for the Thorney OCU and went as an 'extra' loadmaster as Lyneham was short of crews (!) and were carrying oodles of pax.

I was drinking Keo a few months back in Paphos Harbour and brought a bottle of Commanderia home - ah, nostalgia. I do like that way of life.

Ended up chatting to a lovely French evacuee lass sitting on the ramp with a coat on over her bikini! We corresponded for several months, but didn't go any further than that . . .

'Chatting' of course was a bit of a euphemism on Albert - more like yelling in each other's ear (but she smelled good).

[dragartist]

Thanx for explaining what Condec stood for AA62. I never knew. I think the latest ones were called Atlas Mk 2. Not to be confused with the A400M or are they Grizzlys.


Your pic at #1269 brought back memories of loading the 108" MSP. probably the coldest day I remember at Lyneham. The thing got stuck in the K we had to remove every single skydel pin one by one to get it out and remove the rubbing strips to get it in the J. An interesting day.


I note the TROC was pre the George Rogers satchel. I would love to know who George was and the story. AA62 has already explained much about the TROC.


Also how many of us have had a bit of kit named after us. We have had Norah Batty, I can imagine the Smudge hammock, or the AA62 Toe ramp, a certain Test Pilot trim switch guard, Dolly Parton gets a mention on another thread.

[ancientaviator62]

dragartist,
GM also owned the makers of the 'K' engine the Allison T56-15. Hence the nickname 'Detroit Diesel'. Now of course owned by RR.
When loading the heavy drop it was essential to have the CONDEC lined up exactly with the ramp of the a/c. If it was not straight you could easily get it stuck, usually as the platform transited from the ramp to the main floor. On a light training load it was possible with sufficient manpower and judicious use of chains to straighten it. Not so on a max AUW one. You also had to take care that once the platform was moving inside the a/c to prevent a runaway. We did use chocks but they would be no match for the kinetic energy of a max AUW platform gathering speed. The only thing left to absorb this energy would be FS245 ! Not a good solution.
I can well picture your problems with the stuck platform. I still have physical and mental scars from wresting with drop nose pins.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000172A_zpse3df2280.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000172A_zpse3df2280.jpg.html)

The JATFOR (Joint Air Transported Force) series. These are all taken when I was off flying for a short while with a sprained ankle. I am still searching for my airborne shots. We used to get 37 a/c away in 2000 ft stream, with a mix of para and stores. If you were near the rear when taxiing you really needed to be on oxygen. Even then the fumes could make your eyes water despite the use of goggles.

[CoffmanStarter]

Now that's an impressive sight AA62 :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Dengue Dude,
a lot of the evacuees were still in their holiday outfits and some outfits were indeed very skimpy. A dastardly trick was to invite the ladies on to the flight deck and then cool it down ! Disgraceful ! Would not happen now would it ???????

[500N]

That is a cool photo :ok:

Has some style to it, as opposed to a few C-130's lined up.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000011A_zps848b03eb.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000011A_zps848b03eb.jpg.html)

Pic taken out of the cupola at what I think is Changi, but more than willing to be corrected !
Back to JATFOR next time.

[upgently]

Ref JATFOR.

I think that I mentioned in the very early days of this thread that I was fortunate enough to be part of the weather a/c crew during these JATFOR sorties and as such had the most unique views of the start procedure, taxi plan, run up proceedures etc. Imagine 132xAllison T56-15 turning & burning in very close proximity.

I recorded all of this on Super 8 cine film which has been gathering dust in the loft and it would truly be a shame not to air and share this historic footage. Alas the days of Super 8 are well behind us as is my trusty projector but if anybody knows of a source/unit capable of reserecting said film I would be more than happy to act on this information. Current location Wiltshire but prepared to travel.

Upgently

[CoffmanStarter]

Upgently ...

Not wishing to be put on jankers for blatant advertising by the Mods :eek:

Try a quick Google with this as the search "Professional Transfer of 8mm Cine Film to DVD"

Depending on how much footage you have ... costs are seemingly quite reasonable to preserve those precious memories :ok:

A simple matter to then upload to something like YouTube ...

Coff.

[upgently]

Thanks Coff , that's worth a shot

[Dengue_Dude]

AA62

Dengue Dude,
a lot of the evacuees were still in their holiday outfits and some outfits were indeed very skimpy. A dastardly trick was to invite the ladies on to the flight deck and then cool it down ! Disgraceful ! Would not happen now would it ???????

We were sitting on the ramp . . . similar effect old chap, oh boy, oh boy (especially to young hormone-charged aircrew wannabee).

Happy days, for us at least.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000171A_zps11de835c.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000171A_zps11de835c.jpg.html)

As you can see from this pic a lots of smog was generated by all those smokey Allisons.

[fergineer]

Remember it well one lone Andover on QRA and all the line peeps playing games where the aircraft were parked

[November4]

Couple of photos from Op Ablaut

http://rafmams.co.uk/Operations/Op%20Images/Ablaut/Kingsfield%20Hercs.jpg

70 Sqn Hercules at Kingsfield

http://rafmams.co.uk/Operations/Op%20Images/Ablaut/Kingsfield%20Scorpion.jpg

Scorpions being offloaded at Kingsfield

[November4]

Just returned from a holiday in Gib where we met up with a very old family friend and former Hercules / Snoopy pilot Harry A....i

[wub]

November4: the Scorpions being unloaded doesn't look like Kingsfield, lighting towers, apron markings etc.

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ... @ #1292 ... You only need three more Hercs in that pic and someone to shout "Smoke On GO!" on the RT ... and we've got a formation team :}

[CoffmanStarter]

November4 ... Any chance Harry A could join us ;)

[November4]

Will be sending him a message over the next couple of days Coffman

[CoffmanStarter]

The more the merrier :ok:

[smujsmith]

November 4,

I suspect your second shot with the scorpions offloading May well have been at Akrotiri. Meanwhile, have you photoshopped that 70 Sqdn airframe airborne ? In the early 70s every detachment I was deployed on, the 70 Alberts broke down and we went on the whistling Tit.:rolleyes:

Smudge :ok:

[November4]

I was passed the photos from someone who was there a while back and took it as Kingsfield as that is what he told me.

I was still in primary school at the time...

[smujsmith]

November 4,

No stress mate, its nice to see the shots, and I'm sure I meant no offence as to the veracity of location. All of these photographs contribute to the building record of the service of a great aircraft, I hope you had a smile about 70 getting an Albert airborne, its a personal thing for me, and may be worthy of a "tale from the hammock" at some point. Meanwhile, any thing you have is well worthy of posting mate :ok: on looking at the scorpion offloading shot, the lights are actually very reminiscent of Lyneham ?

Smudge

[November4]

No worries Smuj

Am just back from holidays so might be able to do some more digging and find some more photos.

[ancientaviator62]

Coffman,
ref 1292, the others are all there but obscured by smoke ! THE 'Detroit Diesel' needed no such command to produce the effect.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000172A_zpse3df2280.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000172A_zpse3df2280.jpg.html)

Another view of the JATFOR stream taxiing.

Went to the Shoreham Airshow yesterday, and after an iffy start the WX improved s the day went on. Seeing the Falcons jumping (from a Cessna Caravan) reminded me of a funny story from the days when I was the ALM on the Hercules display crew.
We took the Falcons to some airshow (memory ?) and they were due to jump from the ramp. So we duly get the a/c set up, do the sighting run and commence the run in for the live drop. One of the PJIs tells me he needs a crap ASAP. He has already removed his parachute and is struggling with his jump suit.
For those not familiar with the Hercules sanitary arrangements I will explain.
We had four urinals and an Elsan chemical toilet. This was normally stowed out of the way on the port sidewall aft of the para door locked in the up position by a very dodgy spring loaded pin. For all airdrop sorties this was reinforced by nylon ties. The modesty curtain was also removed to stop it thrashing itself to death in the turbulent air.
Out came my survival knife , I cut the ties and lowered the Elsan. At the same time I called 'dummy run' and explained why. Much hilarity from the sharp end.
Of course there is much mirth down the back as the poor chap performed his bodily function. Eventually much relieved he puts all his kit back on we ran in again and dropped.
Sorry no pics !

[Dengue_Dude]

Just in case he's still with us, I'll not mention his name, but anyone remember the incident where a flight engineer used the Elsan for a gronk but hadn't dropped his flying suit quite far enough?

Arrived back on the flightdeck hors de combat and oblivious . . . initially

That's when you find out who your friends are. :D

[ancientaviator62]

DD,
I thought it would not be long before other Elsan stories started to appear !
Sorry Coff, we seem to have lowered the tone (as well as the Elsan )at least for a while.

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ... All part of the rich tapestry old chap ... Carry on !

I nearly got caught short after a dodgy spam sandwich en-route to Coltishall in Chipmunk a long time ago ... It's the fastest I've ever moved :\

Oh dear ... I expect we'll have a few stories now about dodgy Aircrew Rations and the affect thereof :E

[Dengue_Dude]

Ah . . . the joys of the lumpy box:

Salmonella on a stick
Lark's vomit sandwiches
World's skinniest chocolate eclairs
Armadillos (unidentified meat sealed with grease en croute)
Weekend Pork Pies (my favourite)

et al :p

Forgot, the box lid for recording rollers, fullstops and overshoots (forerunner of the Go Around)

[smujsmith]

Oh dear, the "Racasan Dan" rears its head. My last trip as a Ground Eng. Was the return from Dahran, having done the two day ground stay at Dharhan towers. They had banned us from eating in the US feeder on base, the British feeder had been shut due to the high levels of food poisoning, and we were all to eat in the Intercon ? Hotel, the one favoured by media crews during the conflict. Well us mere SNCOs ate with the rest of the non comms, in the downstairs restaurant, where we saw the waiting staff, sweating mightily bringing leftovers downstairs from the "Royals" dining room above, mostly in to the food. Suffice to say, I left Dahran in some considerable dis ease, and unable to enjoy the hammock as I had no way of leaving the elsan. Transitting through Akrotiri, in great pain, we eventually landed at the Home of the Hercules where I reported to sick quarters. The sample, duly tested confirmed full blown salmonella poisoning. I felt like crap, and my boss wanted to know why I wasn't ready for a return trip.

As a Ground eng, the Elsan and I had a love hate relationship. I loved it when no one used it, and we had no need to empty it. I loved it when Dehli belly struck. I hated the bloody thing when 80 pax all decided to use it on a transit from LYE to GUtersloh:ugh: there are some stories out there though, the lady Loadie given a kick on the rudder by the Co, shooting from the curtains in a state of undress, with a load of Paras all watching:eek: I doubt a true narrative of Albert in the RAF can be complete without mention of "Racasan Dan".

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Smudge old chap ...

http://bassic-sax.info/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/wine-corks.jpg

http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/standard/42544866.jpg

Essential engineering equipment I would venture :E

[smujsmith]

Ahh Coff,

I tried all that, but as you well know, pressure differential is everything as the cabin altitude increases :eek: funny your bodge tape is a grab from Farnell, a few years after leaving the mob, I actually worked for them. What a curious coincidence. I will say that my worst experience with the elsan was an El Centro detachment. Having arrived "in theatre" with a task of simple lifts of the Falcs, Pathfinders and the odd Air troop boys, it was decided to empty and clean the "bucket" (inner), remove it, and to recharge it only for the trip home. On around day 3, the crew were complaining of the foul smell of the aircraft, on investigatin we found that the "troops" were using the elsan "as normal":ugh:

Cleaning it out was not pleasant, and of course, the job fell to myself and my fellow GE. No names, no pack drill, but the Loadie knew that the elsan was a "no go", we also put a sign up to that effect and, no doubt, he could have stopped the faux pas. I'm sure AA62 might have thoughts on what we saw as a failure. I never agreed to operate "sans inner" on any det after that, SF or anyone who wanted the inner removed had to sign a chit agreeing to clean any resultant mess up.

Smudge:ok:

OK, a question for the more senior operators. I did a tour at Akrotiri 73-75. At the time 70 were the resident transport squadron with a mix of Alberts and Whistling tits. How did that work for the aircrew ? Were they only qualified on one type, or could they operate both ? I only ask because I would bet that the 70 Sqdn ground crew were ambidextrous at that time. Someone must know.

Smudge

[ancientaviator62]

As we are well and truly in the (cess) pit of 'K' recollections no doubt our non Herc readers will be appalled at the primitive nature of our conveniences (or in conveniences if you prefer). On long dets to 'interesting' places the usual drill was to line the Elsan bucket with a (strong) poly bag to aid emptying and to keep the innards clean. When we caught the 'squits' and the show had to go on we flew in nappies. I do not recall many problems with the in flight catering out of RAF bases but anywhere else could be dodgy at times. Of course the in flight meal often got the blame for the effects of the previous evening curry.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000170A_zps585d6550.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000170A_zps585d6550.jpg.html)

Another of the JATFOR series. I did most of the training drops and also flew on Ex Deep Furrow (Turkey ) and Bold Guard (Denmark). I have related elsewhere my experiences on Bold Guard but will repeat if anyone is keen.

[1.3VStall]

Aaah - black bodge tape!

Does anyone know where one can obtain such a satisfactory product these days?

It's one of the things I really miss about the RAF as the "gaffer tape" sold by B & Q, et al, is merely a pale imitation of the stuff we used to scrounge from the Service.

[OmegaV6]

1.3 .. the only tape that seems to come close .. now my past "stocks" have been depleted is this stuff ..

Gorilla Glue UK | TAPES (http://uk.gorillaglue.com/eng/tapes/)

[1.3VStall]

OV6 - many thanks I'll give it a try.

(Sorry about the thread drift Chaps!).

[OmegaV6]

Regarding the "bucket" .. was it P*** T*** (RIP) who covered the opening in cling film just prior to Lima Echo partaking of its comforts ??? :)

[melmothtw]

Not C-130, so forgive the blasphemy, but the first A400M for the RAF has flown...


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag380/garethjennings1/MA152014PA400MRAF-28_zpsb2525e44.jpg (http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/garethjennings1/media/MA152014PA400MRAF-28_zpsb2525e44.jpg.html)

[Dengue_Dude]

Omega,

Pete Tyas sadly has passed away. I'm sure he would not object to those of us who remember him with affection (sometimes trepidation) having a laugh at his antics.

I used to keep my gloves in my lower leg pockets where I could ensure the fingertips stayed attached!.

[ExAscoteer]

Ah Pedro...

I doubt there will ever be another like him.

[CoffmanStarter]

It would seem that many visitors to this thread have enjoyed the good hearted banter, humorous stories and fond reminiscences shared with us by the growing number of RAF Albert's gallant Air and Ground Crews who continue to freely entertain us here ... and long may that continue. So I thought quite a few of our readership might enjoy Rompers Green ...

... The everyday story of a Transport Station somewhere in the heart of the West Country, home of 3274 Squadron, flying the giant Lockout "Workules" to the far corners of the Earth ...

I have read a few excerpts in the past ... But now Vols 1 and 2 are available on-line for all to read ... Hilariously funny :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/imagejpg1_zps11e1aa05.jpg

The Rompers Green Collection - The Story of a West Country Transport Station (http://www.rompersgreen.com)

I have a feeling publishing this link might well prompt a few more memories ... Let's hope so ;)

All Credits and Acknowledgements as per the Rompers Green website.

Coff.

PS. It all started in early 1977 ... :D:D:D:D

[smujsmith]

Dengue Dude,

Pete Tyas, never was anyone more associated with Albert in my time. I must admit to knowing M*** L***y to! perhaps that explains my lack of hair. The one I always remember was Pete Tyas drilling a bunch of squaddie pax, whilst awaiting the arrival of the Royals to depart. It was pouring down, and rumour has it that Pete stood on the open ramp was ensuring they got a good drenching. The company Sgt Major appeared next to him and asked if he would mind if the Colonel was excused further marching in the rain. I'm sure, the man was a legend, his antics must be part of Alberts record of service.

Smudge:ok:

[OmegaV6]

Smudge .. that story is applied to nearly every Loadie who had "character" .. but I believe the original predates even Pedro by some years ... First time I heard it, B*** D*****d was the Loadie and it was in The Gambia ... :)

Pete will be remembered for, as already mentioned .. his penchant for attacking flying gloves with nail clippers and condiments; ping pong balls at the navs station (before AAR was invented); the things he did with your luggage ( especially after the ladies joined the fleet); and numerous other pranks .. but my favourite story of all ...

In the days when we had to change into "blues" before leaving the frame ....on a fairly long trip ...A rather loud and rotund captain, who would "fill up" from the galley during the descent to avoid having to spend on the ground ... Pete has to stay behind to supervise loading etc .... said captains flying suit is attacked on a daily basis with some very subtle needle and thread work on the side seams ....after 6 days the meal choice has become salads, snacks are declined, water is the beverage of choice ... after a few more days even beer on the ground is being limited .... rumour had it that said captain actually started to lose weight !!!! but with a lack of scales he thought it was still increasing .... :D:D:D

[Dengue_Dude]

Anyone know how Bert is? I last saw him on 30, but understood he retired and was driving a crew coach at Brize.

His nickname on 30 was Gloria after the character in 'It Ain't 'Alf 'Ot Mum'. However, he scuttled around asking everybody not to call him that as we had the SIB sniffing around as one of the ALMs was being court-marshalled for being gay - in those days it was a quick way of leaving the mob.

I remember our Wing Commander was living proof that a man could survive a personality bypass . . .

As Mary Hopkin observed : 'Those Were the Days My Friend' . . .

[kilwhang]

OV6,

For what it's worth, I heard that the original of that story concerned Harry East and it was in the Gulf when Harry was on the Argosy.
For those who don't know, Harry died in Thailand about 4 years ago. Apparently, he retired there.

To get back to Pete Tyas......in all the talk of his practical jokes, it is sometimes forgotten that he was an excellent Loadie (I'm sure AA62 will confirm that).

I flew with him many times and was with him on the Volant Rodeo crew of 1982. The other Loadie was 'Dutch' H......d. I was an instructor at STS at the time and the Nav was another STS instructor, B...t H........K.
During the work-up Pete asked if there was anything extra he could do. B..t gave him a quick course on the Doppler so that, during the low-level flying, Pete sat in the Nav's seat allowing B..t to spend more time standing behind the Capt map reading.

During the competition the American umpires were amazed and it soon went around that the Brit ALMs were qualified in the Nav seat. We did nothing to dispel the rumour.

We came second overall that year.

As I look back on my time on Albert, I can't help remembering really good guys who fell by the wayside because of alcohol. We had a culture which almost encouraged excessive consumption. I don't know what it's like now (I've been out since '88) but I hope that common sense has prevailed.

Maybe Pete, and others like him, would still be around if the help had been there.

[ancientaviator62]

melmothtw,
seeing the pic of the A400 reminds me that when Lockheeds designed the 'Mighty Hercules' they got it so right !

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000175A_zpsfb8763cb.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000175A_zpsfb8763cb.jpg.html)

JATFOR 'scramble' just a few of the 37. Much respect to the 'menders' for providing so many serviceable frames. Can you imagine it now ? Not enough a/c for a start.

[ancientaviator62]

DD,
you have a PM.

[ancientaviator62]

OmegaV6,
your comment ref changing into blues reminds me of the time we picked up the AOC and his PSO at Gander. We were to take him down to Belize in our 'K'.
We had been warned before we left the UK to be on our best behaviour with KD, black tie and black shoes before leaving the a/c-no bondu boots !
So we arrive in Belize and put nice clean KD on our sweaty bodies . The AOC and his man are nowhere to be seen. We climb off and get into the transport. The AOC and PSO already on board still in their flying overalls. He whispers something to the PSO who asks why we have got changed. The captain answers by handing him his copy of GASOs with the page about crew dress regulations open. Mucho embarrassment to VIP and we are of course bursting to laugh, but no one dares to. At least not until we have our debrief beer.

[WASALOADIE]

I was "fortunate" to serve part of my apprenticeship under the wing of Pedro when I was on LXX. Pin holes in paper cups approx. 1 cm under the rim, boot polish on the sextant eyepiece, chains and tensioners in the crew bags, sewing kit overtime on hems of blue uniform, pen-knife on seams so that when the unlucky target put them on, a rip was heard complete with red face, tampons in tomato soup, Duty Free's decanted and replaced with similar looking fluids, walking down the back of a packed aircraft in a towel, shower cap with loofah and pretending to have a shower with emergency water behind the elsan screen, cling-filming the co-pilot to his seat for the duration of a flight, filling his boots with dry ice and dropping the galley floor so that when the crew looked around there was a pair of smoking boots. Best of all that I witnessed was hostie outfit complete with blonde wig, high heels & lipstick despatching a stick of para's. The looks on the para's faces as they turned and exited was priceless!


RIP Pedro

[OmegaV6]

Wasaloadie .. you forgot the famous one with the para's ... a prepared sick bag of thick vegetable stew ... a little turbulence ... some overacting into said sick bag .... then a long look inside.. remove spoon from pocket.. start eating contents of sick bag ...

story was the whole stick made "correct use" of the provided bags in the next few minutes .........

A legend was Pedro... :ok::ok::ok:

[OmegaV6]

Dug out a few photos I'll scan some more later .. but... how close do you get to a VC10 during AAR ???

answer .. VERY !

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/904/8F7A5k.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p48F7A5kj)

[CoffmanStarter]

That's a brilliant pic OmegaV6 ... thanks for posting :ok:

[DCThumb]

Speaking of crew coaches, whatever happened to 'Malcolm'? Never forget his cheery greeting 'Hello Dave'.........to the Stn Cdr!

[smujsmith]

On the subject of characters, does anyone remember "Rocket Ron" the ALSS B shift Sgt "Ramp Tramp" (mid 80s). Ron was from Blackpool and retained his northern accent. He took great delight in leading a recently arrived crew in to debrief in ALSS by shouting loudly "stand up for the Royals". He was just one of those blokes that could say anything he wanted, and not offend anyone. I'm sure there are some "Royals" who remember him.

Meanwhile, thanks all for the correction on the marching Colonel. I still say that Loadies all had a "sense of humour". Kilwhang, talking to mates still in, I rather suspect things have definitely changed.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000123A_zps600651b4.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000123A_zps600651b4.jpg.html)

This should be a cue for the 'Red Flag' tales. For those who may not know Red Flag was the annual exercise held at Nellis AFB very close to 'Lost Wages' (Las Vegas). It involved fast jets and tac airlifters etc . The USAF had the space the ranges and the monitoring kit which we did not. Hence the UK participation.
Spent a month there once as the AT Det O but that is another story.

[Dengue_Dude]

AA62

You too have a PM :cool:

[OmegaV6]

ahh .. Red Flag .. one of the few digital pics on this system ... tasked to fly from Nellis to McCarren to pick up some bits sent over by CivAir ... interesting views on the way in :)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/661/K2xE83.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/idK2xE83j)

[smujsmith]

Never did a whole Red Flag Det, but certainly did some support/resupply/repair trips that gave me many good nights in a great Hotel/Casino, whose name I'm struggling to remember. It was off the strip, and , I will never forget being given a suite, bigger than my married quarter at LYE. I watched CNN from the shower (through a porthole) hearing it through the waterproof speaker.. Anyone else stay there ? Can anyone stimulate my memory as to its name, something like Rio comes to mind, but then, I'm an old bloke now.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

DD,
you have a reply.

[ancientaviator62]

My month in Nellis came about in an odd way. I was in ASI on the tanking det when Ops asked me to call in and take a phone call from the squadron. It was one of the Flt Cdrs asking if I would like a month away on an exercise det. He would not tell me where until I said YES ! Well in for a penny, I said Yes thinking it would be the usual Norway winter det. Turned out the job was the AT one at Nellis during Red Flag.
I was to deal with the AT a/c routing through Nellis (Herc) and Macarran Intl (VC 10 and Tristar). This would cause some 'fun' when a/c would pitch up at the same time at the different airfields. I was booked into a hotel just off the strip and given a car. I managed to get Mrs aa out indulgence on the VC 10 that took me out.
Due to a late decision by MOD to participate in Red Flag it was all fairly chaotic.
Some of the munitions were still on the high seas, the chaff stuck in a railway siding etc. You get the picture. Add to this the usual a/c delays en route to Nellis (fast jet and the 'K') and you can understand why I worked 16 days non stop at the beginning. As things settled down to normal chaos I had two days off to do the sights including Death Valley on the coldest wettest day they had for years. To be continued.

[CoffmanStarter]

Come on chaps ... there's got to be some Red Flag pics out there :ok:

[Top Bunk Tester]

Smudge

Your memory is fine and it does sound as though you are indeed describing the Rio, seen in the 6 o'clock of the picture in #1339. Not to be missed is the Voodoo Lounge in the same hotel and the rooms are all suites. Sundowners in the Voodoo Lounge is an absolute must and, before City Centre was built, it had the very best view of the strip available. First went to Vegas in '87 from Goose and haven't missed a year since ....... Well you either love it or hate it. :ok:

[Dengue_Dude]

Don't know about anyone else, I SO wish I'd had a digital camera for all those years - or even an iPhone camera!

I have nothing on Red Flag at all - we took the Buccaneers out in 1977 and nary a piccy.

[Brian W May]

So no confusion is caused, my alter-ego Dengue_Dude is gone from today. :D

He (me) is replaced by the person I've been for the other 64 years, anonymity is no longer required.

I'm only saying it here as this is where I comment most of all.

[CoffmanStarter]

DD ... Not to worry ;)

If people feel restricted in only having B&W or faded colour prints (even from a Kodak Instamatic ... remember those) and no scanner ... please shout as there are a few of us I'm sure who would be only too glad to help :ok:

[November4]

It's not so much a case of only having B&W photos but more a case of not having any photos from those times. I am like many on here and wish I had taken my camera and used it far more than I did when I was down route

I have just returned from a holiday in Gib and reckon I took as many photos in those 10 days as I did in my entire 3 year tour.

[smujsmith]

TBT,

Thanks for that, it's weird how memory works, the Rio came to mind as I was typing the post, hence the mention, but your post confirms the location Thankyou.

DD, Coff and Nov 4,

Like you, I failed in the photography department, and those I took have gone astray it seems. The ones I can find are full of people, who may not want their mugshots on the web. I must admit that when I took photographs it was for the memory of some of the great people the K fleet was blessed with.

Now, can anyone tell me where the longest piece of continuous, unterminated wire was fitted on Albert. Perhaps part of a trivia quiz.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

I'll have a go Smudge ...

The original "washing line" HF aerial ?

[bingofuel]

The generator field coils!

[Just This Once...]

ADF sense winding?

[smujsmith]

Ahh, Bingofuel,

Spot on, please tell me you were never a copilot :D. I understand the genny field winding wasn't far short of several miles, the buggers were heavy enough. While we are waiting for the Red Flag and other pics, any other Albert "isms" worthy of challenge ? Perhaps our two winged operators could explain where they could get a "meal and a drink" from the instrument panel (according to rumour)!

Smudge:ok:

[Brian W May]

When I worked at Colerne we serviced generators, the buggers weighed in at nearly 95 lbs if memory serves!

So 'several miles'? I shouldn't be surprised.

[DCThumb]

The alcohol and the pea in the slip ball!!!!

Easy!

So, what was the 'Phenolic Scraper' used for? (Think this question originated from Ginge the GE, but not 100%!)

[ancientaviator62]

My Red Flag det continued. So life went on with the usual amount of incidents.
One of my jobs was to obtain Jetplans (remember those ?) for the 'shinies'.
My TORs said I was to get them from Brize. After the first abortive attempts I decided to deal with AOS ? our flight watch agents in San Francisco. Perfect service.
I got a 'wingegram' from group so rang them up and explained the real facts of life 'out west'. I also pointed out that scheduling a Herc and a 'shiny' into different airfields at the same time was not a good idea as I could not be in two places at once. When that occurred I would see to the Herc first. This was not mere Herc preference but common sense. The VC10/Tristar had the benefit of an appointed handling agent geared up to deal with 'airliners'. The Herc was dependent on the very stretched USAF facilities. Besides the Herc as often as not carried DAC so would be parked light years away in the sin bin. One dark night the crew coach driver got lost, and said later that he had never been so far out on Nellis.
I would meet the a/c take the crew to ops, ALM to inflight, and do a BX run.
Put them in the transport to Las Vegas and follow to ensure that everything was OK at the hotel. There were some very long days if more than one a/c pitched up.
My wife meanwhile was learning how the USA selected the sprinters for their Olympic team. The amount of time that the pedestrian green light was on was usually insufficient to allow leisurely crossing of their wide roads.
In typical Darwin fashion the survivors were obviously the right stuff to become Olympic sprinters! More next time.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/RMAF_0000023A_zpsd4ca2d30.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/RMAF_0000023A_zpsd4ca2d30.jpg.html)

Not a pic of Red Flag (I did not take a camera) but taken from the VC10 on the way home from Nellis I think. It is much easier in this digital camera/phone age to carry one about and snap away.

[truckie]

DCT
The phenolic scraper was a piece of bakelite type plastic, used for scraping paint. It was thus, to stop causing flaking of the metal on the elevator mass balance horn, which contained.......depleted uranium

I think

C130K 81-97

[DCThumb]

Winner in one!!!! :D

[smujsmith]

Red flag of course must have been a magic detachment. Only really good GEs were ever sent, hence my never doing the detachment. What I did enjoy about Albert though was wherever you went, unlike the 10, Tri et al, we never went anywhere very fast, and often enjoyed some out of the way places on the way. As we have already seen from the posts to date, even "way back when", the fleet operated out of some remote airfields and strips. And were probably seen by government as great ambassadors for Great Britain. For myself, as non aircrew, my greatest joy in the 5000+ hours I managed to clock up as a GE (mostly operating my hammock), I will always remember climbing through cloud out of Lyneham on an early winter morning, and finding the sun and beautiful clear blue skies above. Standing in the para door porthole, with a cup of coffee seeing that made my day every time. I bet there are plenty of K photographs to come, taken in many locations. Let's be having them chaps, and if anyone captured that early morning sun, please post it. As a second thought, I can only be jealous of those that had a seat at the front rather than the para door, but I knew my place ;)

Smudge:ok:

[Xercules]

As Smudge says there could be some very spectacular views generated by the strange departure times we used to "enjoy". One of my fondest memories is of crossing Northern Arabia having departed Akronelli bound for Masirah. This, however, was a night into day leg (I cannot for the life of me remember how that was arranged with Akronelli's famously restricted operating hours). Anyway, in the silence above the desert we were listening to a World Service Prom concert - the piece was Holst's Venus and as we listened, the sky was just brightening and there was Venus rising to greet the dawn - absolutely priceless.

[ancientaviator62]

Last of my tale of Red Flag detachment. Towards the end we had an incident whereby a Tornado lost one of the pods. The pod contained radioactive material so the USAF demanded the RAF clean it up. So a cleanup team was sent out from UK along with the board members of a SI. My replacement came out so I handed over my imprest, car, hotel room and log and prepared to return home.
The VC10 was full (all those extra bods) so my wife went home civvy with two a/c changes. This concerned me but as usual she coped admirably.
So here we all are on the 10 ready to go but we did not. An engine snag put us AOG. Big problem for my successor to find hotel rooms for us all. I tried to look for a Herc trip home but nothing was due for a few days to start the recovery.
I ended up in Caesars Palace, in a room with the heart shaped bed, mirrored ceiling and sunken bath ! Three days later the 10 was fixed and home I came.
It had been interesting but hard work especially as the Group Captain i/c seemed to think that non AT problems were well within my province. However he did send a nice letter to the Squadron.
All change next time.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/scan0015_zps5bb0fad8.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/scan0015_zps5bb0fad8.jpg.html)

Agree with smudge ref the sunrise/sunset and the general sky effects. Most spectacular of course when the camera is absent !

[Xercules]

Re AA62's shot - that was exactly when Venus was in the ascendant, just before the sun rose enough to bore holes in the eyeballs.

[smujsmith]

AA62,

Thanks for that photograph. What could be nicer having left a damp dark Lyneham in the "deep midwinter" than such a sight. Taken from a position I am not unfamiliar with I suspect.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000102A_zps1ee1c515.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000102A_zps1ee1c515.jpg.html)

Sorry if we have had this one before but I do like it and it fits the current posts. Judging by your remarks several of you like these pics too. Taken from the starboard para door.
I was up at 5 this morning to drive to Bodium Castle to see my son take part in a triathalon. As we drove east the most stunning sun appeared as a huge red ball. Fitted in nicely with these posts.
Apart from the sunrise/sunset scenes I was always awed by the zillions of stars one could see on a clear night. There must be someone/something else out there !

[Brian W May]

I used to like having the cupola fitted and flying the leg from MPA to ASI (particularly) and looking up at the Milky Way - absolutely stunningly beautiful (despite the noise!!!).

[ksimboy]

I recall coming UK bound on Albert once from CYQX to Edinburgh. Night leg and followed all the way by a comet , fantastic sight and sadly no camera to hand. Gin clear sky in Edinburgh too so comet still visible. Happy days indeed.

[smujsmith]

Ahh, Ksimboy,

Those were the days, I'm sure as well as the Comet, you might have spotted a Britannia too, in those days most aircraft flew at Albert type speeds:ouch: Its definately a claim to fame for a Loadie to go for the "I stayed awake across the pond" award though, and worthy of praise indeed. Although I do remember coming back direct from IAD with Gibbo (RIP) and a trainee lady Loadie, with an empty, flat floor aircraft. I managed to connect his MP3 player into the PA system and we had a bit of a disco down the back. Thankfully, the bar remained firmly closed.

Meanwhile a shot from MPN, not mine unfortunately, but Pete Butt is OK with it.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/ef0e6577db5a26682e603065c57778a2_zps9752a5e3.jpg
Albert taking off into the sunset MPN.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Nice pic there from Pete B, Smudge :ok:

[ksimboy]

Smuj,
Also recall an empty aircraft all the way to Nairobi, on departure from RAF Butlins, where the second loadie ( Gibbo bless him) somewhat socially confused after our evening meal crashed in his hammock on the ramp. Roll of lashing tape tied to rear of hammock ,unrolled and end handed to skipper , Gibbo duly ends up nose first on ramp, furious 2nd ALM pointed in direction of end of tape and captain totally bemused. Fun times indeed!

[smujsmith]

Ksimboy,

These was always a bit of fun to be had. Loadies with hammocks though ? I thought they were the preserve of the GE, after all, in my day we never qualified for any extra pay for working whilst airborne (as opposed to the FART (Flying Airborne Radar Technician) employed on the Sentry). And of course, it was our sworn duty to keep ourselves in peak condition to manage the stretchy soup and max anchovy pizza at "Vera's" (Pizza delight Gander). On a very long transit though, I did lend my hammock to our Co, who was in need of a couple of hours. The Loadie, sensibly, opted for a sleeping bag on the para seats. After around 4 hours making tea and coffee for the front end, I went to see if the "real crew" wanted to get back to work, to find the Co, curled up in my maggot at the foot of the ramp. He informed me that the third time he fell out of the hammock he had decided the floor was more comfortable.:rolleyes:

You must have some good pictures to post on here mate, you're not old enough to have lost them. Hope you are well.

Smudge:ok:

[ksimboy]

The only one that survived is in my log book and isn't a pretty one , checked in the garage (where the boxes of pics were) and the little rodents have done a number on the pics , looks like comfortable nests though!

[chickenlover]

Evening All
Sorry to have been absent for a while-life getting in the way of nostalgia.....
Somebody mentioned one of my favourite bars - The Voodoo Lounge.
A reminder of the view for you :)
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/P1010629_zps2499b649.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/P1010629_zps2499b649.jpg.html)

Not my picture - this was hanging on the wall of the flight for years - I put the colour photocopier to good use. Red Flag was just more fun than should be allowed. I've got some video from the SAM sites and some HUD footage from F-14s and 16s -I'll try and get them uploaded-I think they were sanitised for release.
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img606-Version2_zps784d110b.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img606-Version2_zps784d110b.jpg.html)

[smujsmith]

Chickenlover,

You may have requited Coffs lust for gun camera shots. I'm still searching for my B&W shot from GW1, just like yours, but no mountains. Whilst only a GE, I always favoured the RH para door, if allowed, during LL stuff, the piper looks a bit adjacent. I was only fortunate enough to do a few days at a time at Nellis, but always stayed at the Rio, and enjoyed the "ambience" of the place;)

Welcome back, you seem to have the photographs we all want to see.

Ksimboy, as long as your furry friends are comfortable, but the loss is ours entirely.

Smudge:ok:

[November4]

Hammocks....

I didn't tend to use them as I was quite happy with a sleeping bag on the para seats. But one time I did use a hammock on a long leg from Bahrain to Deigo Garcia resulted in me being dumped head first on to the ramp. I had used lashing tape to sling the hammock over the ramp. The aircraft vibrations had caused the lashing tape to fray until it snapped. It was nothing to do with the weight in the hammock exceeding the breaking strain of the lashing tape!!

I landed head first on the ramp. Sat up quickly in case anyone had seen my acrobatic stunt but the rest of the team (2) and the GE were still asleep. I decided to move to my normal para seat after that. I must have done some damage to my neck as I couldn't move it without being in pain.

As for lashing someone into their hammock, we took revenge on my team Sgt who was a big wind up merchant.

http://i57.tinypic.com/10o4q2p.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Chickenlover ...

Poor Albert !

Interesting pic ... I just wonder if anyone "up-front" has planted an imaginary piper from Albert on a sharp pointy thing :E

Smudge ...

Still no luck in finding your Nav Bag/Tool Kit then :(

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/CONCERTINACITYASI_zpsc97e8955.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/CONCERTINACITYASI_zpsc97e8955.jpg.html)

Not quite Caesar's Palace but a step up from the tents. ASI during Op Corporate. Concertina City ! Brought in by the USAF all folded up and then extended into the state you see it. Complete with generator and support crew.
The gene ran all the time except for a short period at night when it was shut down for maintenance. When that happened most of the crews woke up !

[chickenlover]

Coff,
Can't imagine anyone would do that sort of thing......

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img607_zpsa8eb976d.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img607_zpsa8eb976d.jpg.html)

Fighter Affil got a lot more interesting when the fighters introduced the assumption that we were fitted with a gun, so they could no longer wave their @rses at us with their impunity. We had a very good relationship with the Harriers as my skipper was ex-harriers of many years and mates with most of the pilots. One memorable day over West Falkland we got in a fur ball with 3 GR3s. We also had OC Hardet on board taking a window seat. We survived a good 15 minutes before they claimed a kill on us but we got in a guns shot before then, verified by their boss. Much hilarity ensued on the flight deck. The poor Harrier mate, 'shot' by a Herc, had a tough time in the debrief. I'm sure anyone who flew with my skipper would remember the experience. I've never flown with a pilot who was better at combat/evasion/affil. He could make the Herc do things that should have been impossible. His use of the vertical in combat was a sight to see -caused quite a stir amongst the fighter community in the FI. I believe he was one of a handful of Herc pilots that went on to get an ovation in a red-flag debrief for his evasion skills against Red-air.
He was equally renowned for his low-flying - this is how i spent much of my time in the Falklands...

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img608_zpsd437c4f6.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img608_zpsd437c4f6.jpg.html)

Slight thread creep - anyone remember these ? Only available to those who had endured endless viewings and could answer a tricky exam in quotes from the film
:)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img609_zpsf2d2551d.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img609_zpsf2d2551d.jpg.html)

One of my ground duties was Adj, and thus I had to produce reems of paperwork. I always tried to lighten the daily orders/programme by adapting a well known cartoon to local interest.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img610_zps3390ed2f.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img610_zps3390ed2f.jpg.html)

[CoffmanStarter]

Chickenlover ...

Many thanks ... a definite F4 kill there :D:D:D:D

Well they put "Winders" on the Mighty Hunter ... so why not the Herc :E

AA62 ...

Your recent pic ... was that the forerunner to Glamping :}

Keep em' coming chaps :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

Chickenlover,
I presume the very skilled gentleman to whom you refer is Al H......

[chickenlover]

Indeed it is AA62, until recently I flew with his son as well-small world.....

[smujsmith]

Chickenlover, I had the great pleasure of some Fighter affil and LL (very) whilst occupying the RH para door with the Captain you mention in the run up to GW1. I certainly remember his use of vertical, few did it as I recall, but rumour amongst the GE's was that he was an ex Harrier jock, do you know if there was any truth in that one? And, were you the Co in those days? I never kept any record of either crew or fellow GE's on those dets.

Smudge:ok:

[chickenlover]

Smuj
He was indeed, and did several tours on them including I think a tour as QWI / instructing. He was a great mentor and I learnt so much from flying with him. He was also one of the few pilots on the Herc that made 'prodding' look easy. I was a skipper by GW1 so didn't fly with him out there. ( other than in formation) :)
lots more GW1 pics to come yet

[chickenlover]

Tonights offering;
thought these may be interesting to those that never got 'down the back' during a para sortie. Taken by a photog for use in some briefing or other. When I first did the TS course as a captain, we were made to go down the back during a drop to see the effect of over zealous use of rudder on blokes stood up carrying mountains of kit. Very useful insight..... never seen so much vomit.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img611_zpsd7834270.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img611_zpsd7834270.jpg.html)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img612_zps30c1de7d.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img612_zps30c1de7d.jpg.html)

I'm sure AA62 or one of the experts can confirm, this was a 'wedge' load, dropped moments before the sticks of para were released-it cut down on the enormous weights they had to carry on operational drops.
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img613_zps959ec9ab.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img613_zps959ec9ab.jpg.html)

[smujsmith]

Ahh well, the GE' s did know something then:rolleyes: look forward to your GW1 shots, AH was certainly a smashing Captain to work for too, always found him a complete gentleman.

Smudge:ok:

[dragartist]

Yes CL, the last pic is Wedge. For those who don't know the wedge was a structure that sat on the ramp to give a slide for the load to roll down. without the need for a climb or nose up. The parachute is an Sc15 in the pillow bag. We developed a version of the Sc15 called the SC20 with extra lines and strengthening. Also a lightweight load attachment strop made of some fantastic new fibre material. previously we bent shackle pins due to opening shocks. Most of these mods were rolled into the later versions of SC15 including a square bag with a diaper to better control the line deployment. The height of the load was restricted compared to CDS or a standard 1 ton but the chute was mounted on the vertical face. We could get down to 250 ft to match the Low Level parachute.


We made adaptors to fit the old Marshall wedge to the J. The Australians and Canadians have their own version.


I recognise the Despatcher on the left. He has done well and a nice chap. Not sure about the bird but I think I know who she is.


In the first picture the middle loads were harness packs to go out the side doors before the troops. the chutes are 28 ft as shown in some of AA62 photos. I think the youngest one we had was made in 1972. Others went back to the early 60's. War stocks were such that we had difficulty consuming them. The guys insisted in bringing them back for re packing. Clearly the natives did not like the cloth.

[Brian W May]

Al H was a flight commander on 24 during my one month on the squadron, total waste of that ability. Glad to see he got across to Goatacre - must have been after I left 47.

Completely concur, what a lovely bloke.

[ancientaviator62]

Chickenlover,
great pics. As dragartist has confirmed it is indeed wedge. We had 'fun' at JATE on the 'K' trails with this. Even loading it was a faff. When the MK3 was cleared for this the aft trim of an a/c at 'Action Stations' was VERY close to the limit. This was when the paras were stood up, the door bundles were in place and the wedge ready. If you had all these then on an ABEX you needed rather long DZ.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/RMAF_0000012A_zps02a69583.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/RMAF_0000012A_zps02a69583.jpg.html)

Another pic of ASI during Op Corporate.

[CoffmanStarter]

Hope you guys don't mind me asking ... but in CL's 2nd pic ... what are these ? They appear to be stowed for flight in some way ?

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ScreenShot2014-09-09at080043_zps834f6573.png

Just genuinely interested :)

Coff.

PS. CL Great pics ... thank you for sharing with us ... looking forward to more. You too AA62 ... your career photo library keeps on giving us little gems ... the recent ASI pic is quite dramatic and business like :ok:

[Doobry Firkin]

Coffman, the exact name is gone from my head but they're tie-downs for the chains that were used on vehicles, etc. The bit at the bottom has a rotating collar that locks the chain in, the top has clamp/hook system that locks into the rings in the floor and then the orange bit is rotated like a turnbuckle to tension the whole thing.

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
they are 10000lb tie down tensioners. The tie down chains were locked in at the top, the claws at the bottom locked onto tie down points in the floor and then the tensioner was tightened to restrain the load. We also carried 5000 lb ones for use on the ramp. If you were going to do a squadron move etc then another half set of lashings would be carried in addition to the normal always carried set.
There was a procedure for tying down the main gear in the event of an emergency using these tensioners and chains.

[CoffmanStarter]

May thanks Chaps ... Got it :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Welcome to the Thread Doorby F ... :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

A few posts ago Coffman (this thread is all his fault ) asked about strange loads we have carried in the 'K'. So every now and then as memory stirs I will tell a few tales. Not long after we got the first a/c I did a trip to Kelly AFB near San Antonio in Texas. We were to pick up Herc ground equipment that MOD had ordered. We arrived and the kit duly turned up outside the a/c after a bit of hassle with Base Ops. Engine stands. prop stands etc. It was all two tone. Yellow and rust ! Whether it was new or secondhand I know not but it had obviously been standing outside for some time. Anyway I start to load it. Now the electric cargo winch for the 'K' was to be the 'refurbished' ex Beverley HD winch. However there were none available. All we had was a manually operated Tirfor winch, which was hard work in those hot and humid conditions.
Job done we go down to the hotel. Now San Antonio was home to the Alamo, so off we all went to see this US icon. A bit disappointing as it was smaller than we had pictured and was surrounded by some tatty buildings. Still another tick on the board.
What did not disappoint was the Gate Guardian. It was a cargo version of the B36 bomber of which only a few were built. Even in that large expanse of the base it still looked enormous. Wonder if it still exists ?

[Doobry Firkin]

Second post in the thread Coffman.
Ex A-line then 47 / 70 Eng Sqn sooty, having a good time reliving some great times i had. :)

[DaveW]

Well, I never thought I'd have any knowledge I could post in this superb thread (thanks, all) but here goes:

AA62, the Convair XC-99 was developed from the B-36, and was the largest piston engined land-based aircraft ever built. (Hughes Spruce Goose trumps it as a flying boat). Only one was built, and it still exists at the USAF Museum at Wright-Patt, having been moved there from Kelly in sections about 10 years ago.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66162937/Convair_XC-99_and_B-36B_in_flight_c1949%20%28640x444%29.jpg

[ancientaviator62]

DaveW,
welcome and glad you are enjoying our memories of the 'K'. It must have been an interesting job moving an a/c that size that distance. Hats off to the USAF.

[ancientaviator62]

Chickenlover,
AH coming to Hercs from Harriers reminds me that in the early days at least there was a steady trickle of pilots from the Herc doing the FJ conversion. At least one did very well and I think ended up commanding a FJ station. Another of Obi Wan's compatriots I believe.

[CoffmanStarter]

AA62 ...

this thread is all his fault ...

Happy to take that one for the Team :ok:

[1.3VStall]

AA62,

You may well be thinking of A* L******d, who as a gp capt was the in-theatre "voice on the news" during GW1? After Hercs he became a Phantom mate.

[ancientaviator62]

1.3vStall,
you are correct !

[Vzlet]

The fuselage was separated into four sections - the upper/lower lobes of the forward and aft halves. Still sizable chunks, nonetheless! The size and condition (including considerable corrosion) present a tough restoration challenge.

Most of the airframe is still outdoors, as seen here (http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Air/Convair-XC-99/1949436/L/). Other views available here (https://www.flickr.com/search/?tags=xc99&sort=relevance&user_id=15086926%40N08).

It's readily apparent that, while enormous, the expanded-from-a-bomber design lacks the "airlifter" features that make the Herc so flexible and capable.

[chickenlover]

AA62 - I know of several who made the crossover successfully, one of my former colleagues did the reverse journey of AH and ended up as a QWI on the Harrier.
Thought this may be of interest as it ties a few of the recent discussion points together. AH was the captain of the a/c in the picture and I followed him in shortly after. We tried to get in at low level and failed due to the extremely poor visibility in the smoke from the now raging oil fires. We got uncomfortably close to several power pylons that ringed the airport at Kuwait. We then set up an internal aids approach and got a superb talk down from the Nav using the embryonic SCNS. I don't believe it had been approved at this stage for this, certainly not down to the silly decision height we used. The kit was very accurate, and the well flown monitored approach by the Co and Nav plonked me on very short finals for the landing. My memory of the rest of the day is a bit hazy-I think we gave some fuel to AH who had given all of his to the Apaches who were still mopping up pockets of resistance locally. I may be confusing this with another trip - I wish I had made more detailed notes of what happened on which trip. If I'm honest, we were all pretty fatigued by this point. We'd had a run of back to back day and night trips spending long hours on NVGs grabbing kip on the a/c or in the tents at Al-Jouf. Hopefully some of the chaps out there will have a better memory of the period . I just wished we'd had a better call sign than 'Monti' !

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/img548_zps2bdd11c0.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/img548_zps2bdd11c0.jpg.html)

[ancientaviator62]

Vzlet,
thanks for the picture link. Not quite how I remembered it ! It is going to need someone who is good with Airfix models to put that back together.

[Mal Drop]

I remember flying the artist to a desert strip of bulldozed sand so that he could sketch the one of take-offs for another of his excellent GW1 series.

Some of the background items in chickenlover's print can be seen here.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/Gulf%20War/KuwaitInternationalAirport.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/Gulf%20War/FlyTheFlag800.jpg

(A younger version of 'sycamore' can be seen sauntering on the right of the second picture)

[CoffmanStarter]

Chickenlover, Mal Drop ...

Fascinating story there Gents along with some great pics :D:D:D:D

I reckon all of you guys have quite a few more stories from GW1 to tell ... Her Majesty's Royal Air Force at it's finest :ok:

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

After the above ... the following seems a bit lame now :( ... But it made me smile :)

As AA62 will probably confirm ... we don't get too much low level military flying in these parts (LFA 18) ... No disrespect to RAF Odiham and their Chinooks ... This afternoon was different though !

14:05A ... The glorious music of four turboprops bashing the air into submission announced the impending arrival of something big, heavy and very low ... 15 seconds later the unmistakable shape of a Herc heading south followed by a nice tight turn over Heathfield Park East Sx (clearly a WP) ... Then heading west, skirting around the Gatwick Zone to the south of Uckfield ... Brilliant :D

Not a RAF Herc though ... as she was sporting a USAF Star insignia.

Come on XXIV, 30 and 47 Squadrons ... there are a few people around here that need to be reminded occasionally that we still have a superb and very professional RAF (no smoke) :ok:

Coff.

[ancientaviator62]

Coffman,
not seen an RAF Herc around here for some time. A few years ago when my grandson was playing for the Sussex under 14s at Blackstone a 'K' flew right over the pitch. Only my grandson and I knew what it was ! Sign of the times.

[chickenlover]

You chaps ought to move out to the wild west - this is almost a daily occurrence :) the view from my back garden. To those nice people from BZN who keep heading south at low level over the eastern end of Brinkworth - Thankyou. Keep it up-the neighbours are Herc friendly too. One day I'll have the camera to hand to get a snap of you over the house instead of heading into the distance !

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp98/Fryboy47/IMG_1044_zps592412f2.jpg (http://s401.photobucket.com/user/Fryboy47/media/IMG_1044_zps592412f2.jpg.html)

[nimbev]

Re unusual loads, in 1968 we participated in a major NATO exercise in N Norway. One of the airfields we used was Bardufoss which for those who dont know was a German fighter base during WW2 and was the airfield from which the fighters that were protecting Tirpitz should have been scrambled but due to an intelligence cock up weren't, thereby saving 9 and 617 Sqns from being annihilated.

Anyway, the aircraft hangers and dispersals were tunneled into the mountain and apparently had not been much used since WW2. There were piles of german helmets and memorabilia just lying around, I dread to think of the unexploded ordnance that must have been there.

There were Hercs from a number of nationalities; parked next to us was a Canadian. The crew had been exploring around the area and had found an old Howitzer, the type with solid metal wheel rims, and decided it would make a great souvenier. Lots of debate followed about weight, floor loading etc etc - all the good advice was ignored and they proceeded to winch the beast into their aircraft without using the elephant's foot to support the cill. Down comes the cill, up goes the nose, crunch goes the ramp as the rusty howitzer wheels tear into it and now they can neither get the gun into the aircraft nor off the ramp.

We started up and left for Andoya, leaving the Canadian Herc with its nose in the air and the gun half in and half out of the aircraft.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-031-2415-16%2C_Russland%2C_Soldaten_an_leichter_Haubitze.jpg/300px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-031-2415-16%2C_Russland%2C_Soldaten_an_leichter_Haubitze.jpg

ISTR the gun was like this but even bigger this type weights about 2000kg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-03

[chickenlover]

Not sure if this will work - its a link to a video of a 'Khe Sahn' approach from the inside.(with the Blue Angels Fat Albert)
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152387514184789
if it doesn't work I'll try and sort it tomorrow

[smujsmith]

Chickenlover,

Your post on the trip to Kuwait, to refuel Al H, reminds me of a trip I experienced a few weeks later, and concerns the smoke from the oil fires around Kuwait. By then, four crews, each allocated a GE, with a small line Det were operating from Bahrain. Had you wrapped up Victor by then ? Most of the Lyneham team had already returned and picked up their medals (Note 1). Daily resupply flights around various locations were the norm, but, for the crew I was awarded to as a punishment, there was a problem. Our Air Eng was the chap who was the Eng on the collision with the RN chopper in the Falkland Islands. He had a bit of a thing about poor vis and helicopters, and who could blame him.

Anyway, well after your escapade with AH, we were tasked to take an armour plated jag to Kuwait for a top nebby to visit. On the day there was a southerly wind and thankfully (or maybe not) the USAF had installed a tactical ILS at the airport. As we descended in to the black murk that was our approach path, our Air Eng ordered me into the cupola, with the order, shout out if you see any sign of a helicopter. I could see his point, but bugger all else from the cupola! being on headset, all the way down the approach I could hear those "vibrating" call signs that just shout "rotary traffic". We landed OK and on shutdown I was left to clean the windscreens, my first attempt using some water sed I fuel (the windscreens were covered in oil). A 2 hour wait to offload due to movers equipment breakdown allowed us to borrow a land rover to drive a few miles up the "highway of death" made us all consider what an easy war we had had. Anyway, having been rained on, one of my yellow GE T shirts now remains as a permanent reminder of that visit. Despite attempts by Mrs Smudge, she was never able to remove the black spots from it, and it now resides in a draw I keep for treasured memories (unfortunately I failed to place my nav bag there :ugh:).

As an aside, we followed that trip with an evening trip to his Jag for the VIP, Lord Wakeham, who I had the pleasure of meeting and talking to during the flight to Kuwait. He particularly appreciated his tour of the burning oil wells, although the skipper decided he should not be on headset at the same time as N***y B*b our Air Eng:eek:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/a8cb718cd6a3dd9936e562b74ead1b06_zps2056c802.jpg
Cleaning the windscreens Bahrain February 91. XV297, Note Garfield doesn't have any wording yet. His finger may be indicating the similarity between my head and his beachball:)

Note 1. On my Return to Lyneham sometime in March I was told to report to a young lady Flt Lt in handbrake house, who proceeded to bend my ear about failing to collect my awards, sign here and threw a small brown folded envelope over her table to me. I did my best to be grateful, duly touched forelock (found to be missing) and departed. That medal still lies in its bent brown envelope, accepted in the spirit it was awarded.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
ref your GW1 medal, the adj had our collection in their brown envelopes,
and you just signed for it. I have no idea where mine is.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/RMAF_0000009A_zps1f45a9ba.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/RMAF_0000009A_zps1f45a9ba.jpg.html)

Another pic of ASI. Your mission is to find your box in all those.

[ancientaviator62]

Nimbev,
I would hope the loadmaster was absent when the 'nick a gun trick' was tried. When we did Op Sheepskin, 47 brought back a couple of old cannons from a Caribbean island. Wonder what happened to them.

[Mal Drop]

There was a significant helo/albert collision during GW1, it happened on the ground when a (Saudi?) Super Puma taxied through the wing of one of hercs whilst it was starting up. As I recall the ALM on the long lead got a free Avtur shower and several feet were trimmed off the starboard wing. I think that the frame was later recovered to Lyneham by a STANEVAL/Test crew who had been issued with a large bag of brave pills.

[Brian W May]

I considered the 'Yellow Bombers' as 'brave pills' on account if I needed them, then I was somewhere I shouldn't be (in terms of personal safety).

Of course the danger barometer always climbed several units when you found yourself co-located with Kate Adey . . .

Fortunately, I was on Timmy then and (get this) was Route Checked into Kuwait airport the day after the EOD teams declared it clear. We also lost a generator just as we hit the smoke clouds from the burning oil wells, it was like a scene from Dante's Inferno and not a nice thing to do to a pretty white aeroplane.

Life must go on . . . mustn't grumble :p

[ExAscoteer]

Of course the danger barometer always climbed several units when you found yourself co-located with Kate Adey . . .



You knew you were in the s**t if Kate Adie turned up!

[CoffmanStarter]

Chickenlover ...

I hope you don't mind a tech follow up from me ... but I was intrigued by your reference to your Nav providing you with a "talk down" with reference to the Self Contained Navigation System (SCNS). I was reasonably sure this was basically an INS Platform you were referring to ... did a bit of digging and found this from LM covering the Ring Laser Giro/SCNS

http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/content/dam/lockheed/data/aero/documents/global-sustainment/product-support/Service-News/V22N3.pdf

However ... I'd be interested to understand how a SCNS "talk down" is transacted ... I'm assuming Position, Range, Heading and Height data is available ... Is this information then passed to the Pilot verbally like in a PAR "talk down" ("You're above GP, adjust your rate of descent ... left of CL but converging" ... etc.) ? Does the Nav run a plot of Glideslope/Extended Centre Line to create the mental picture or have I got it totally wrong ?

Sorry ... I'm a bit sad I know ... But I still have fond memories of flogging around many years ago in a Chipmunk trying very hard to fly an accurate PAR pattern with my Boss breathing down my neck :ok:

Coff.

[ksimboy]

Maldrop , the GW1 incident only took a couple of feet off the wing tip, and it was on the ground. The incident in the Falklands removed considerably more (plus fuel tank and aileron) and while airborne. At least the repair team in GW1 had the experience of the FI event to draw on .

[Mal Drop]

I have pictures of the damage stashed away somewhere and got a version of the events from the crew.

On talkdowns into Kuwait Intl, we also used to do them on the newly fitted Loran 604 which was incredibly accurate but a bitch to operate as we had to learn it straight from the manual. I have no idea whether any formal training on it was ever developed, I certainly never had any.

I doubt half the stuff we did in theatre in order to complete tasks would have been signed off by the relevant authorities. For some troop sorties we even took to taxying out of sight of the local 'head shed' and reconfiguring things so that we could actually get the job done.

On one sortie I recall the Detco giving me a blank sheet of paper and asking me to mark any significant navigational features for our route. When I handed it back it featured a six-lane highway with 250'+ powerlines for almost the entire route. We were working from out-of-date aeronautical charts, being spun-up in theatre as far as possible and generally making it up as we went along.

Good times...

[ksimboy]

Mad bob , I totally agree about the Swiss cheese, and as you 29 years ago. Time doesn't heal , the memories of the day will always be with me.

[Madbob]

Maldrop

Here are a couple of pics taken not long after XV206 landed after its mid-air in June 1985 taken by me. The No. 1 engine was not shut down, its fuel supply was compromised by the damage to the tank that supplied it and it auto-feathered:eek:.

The port aileron was missing completely along with about 12 feet of wing! The ac had taken off from Stanley and had MPA not been open as a diversion the ac would probably not have landed safely as Stanley's runway was made of well-worn and slippery AM2 matting, only 6,000 ft long and about 85 feet wide.....

Sadly the 4 RN Sea King crew were all killed but it could have been worse. The chances of this happening in all that open sky around the Falklands was miniscule where the visibility was often unlimited but on this occasion the holes in the cheese tragically all lined-up.....

A sad day.

MB


https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10660226_4633526933365_2333211281651173925_n.jpg?oh=802ba7e4 b2001ffbf8dd1181ef8de2de&oe=549FFB7F

[Madbob]

Another couple of pics.....compare port v. starboard wings.....:eek::eek::eek:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10644692_4633535533580_7517042417015612720_o.jpg

Typically fate decreed it was the Orange Crop (ESM) equipped frame....

MB

[Brian W May]

An absolute tragedy and example of Sod's Law in operation. I was on 24 for my (very) short time when this happened.

A profound shock to all concerned, RIP lads and condolences to the crew's families and friends that still have to live with the results.

[ksimboy]

Mad bob , 20ft 7in was what the BoI told us. Shows what a robust aircraft Albert was though. Superb airmanship from the Captain on the day .

[smujsmith]

Madbob,

Thanks for those great shots of "Terry the Tractor" with the results of the collision, particularly the comparison between wings. As you rightly say, what a sad event, and loss it was. Having spent many happy hours in the aircraft, post the prang, it says a lot for technical capability that it was recovered at all. I assume that eventually the LH mainplane was replaced ? I must say I only flew in 206 with SF crews, who rarely flew straight and level, so any idiosyncrasies of the aircraft would probably go unnoticed.;). If you were the Eng on this aircraft during the event, then a personal hello, and I hope you are well.

Smudge:ok:

Coff, re your interest in SCNS, I'm sure Chickenlover can give you a better description, but I certainly saw SCNS being used in the run up to GW1 where we did visual approaches during the day to "strips", with the Nav I assume, taking positional fixes during the visual procedure. Having stored these positions, the sortie could then be repeated at night, with pilot reference provided through the heading and pitch steering bars on the Golliwogs eyeball, backed up using NVG. I know that one Arthur C*****n once convinced me of such, but then, he was a Nav, and me a just a GE.

[ancientaviator62]

One of the early trips I did on the 'K' was out to Sydney to recover the service participants from the London to Sydney Car Marathon. We brought back four cars. I think all of them pretty knackered as you might expect. At least one had to be pushed on . If we had a firm arrival anywhere I would have expected several to collapse in a heap. Still it was a very good trip .
Fairford-Muharraq
Muharraq-Gan
Gan-Cocos
Cocos-Perth
Perth-Richmond
Richmond-Alice Springs
Alice-Changi
Changi-Gan
Gan-Muharraq
Muharraq- Nice
Nice-Fairford
Arrived home on Dec 23 1968 with one in mech gov !

[chickenlover]

I had no idea that this picture was in the public domain - assuming the link works / is allowed, it shows the untimely demise of our 'Terry the Tractor' aka XV206 in Afghanistan. If the link doesn't work, I have downloaded it and can post later.
XV206burn photos | C-130.net (http://www.c-130.net/g3/c-130-photos/Mishaps/XV206burn)
You can also lose a few hours of your life perusing the many RAF Herc pics there.
Another top tip - go to Flikr.com and type various combinations of C130 / Hercules / Low etc into the search bar and you will find some stunning images.

[ancientaviator62]

Chickenlover,
some interesting pics on that link. I have two pics of the crash site of XV 180 at Fairford. These were sent to me anonymously without any explanation. I do not think they have ever been seen before.
Going back to GW1, when it was brewing up I attended a conference at group.
One of the subjects discussed was the infil/exfil of troops etc when the a/c was not in the correct pax fit. Someone wanted to insist the we re-role the a/c to normal pax fits to comply with the extant rules. This, in the engine running offload/onloads on the strips we were to use was lunatic. I proposed we adopt the well tried USAF Vietnam method of just sitting them on the floor. After the usual argy bargy this was agreed provided they sat on their kit ! Have you ever tried sitting on a Bergen ? I told my ALMs to just do what seems sensible at the time.
The other subject was casevac. None of those at the meeting had ever seen a Herc with full casevac fit. If they had they would have had a fit. Everything was planned from diagrams. The problem was that due to extra kit in the 'hog's trough' and the 'silencer on the heating fan you could not fit the a/c out as per the diagrams.
I did one of the first casevac trials when we got the 'K' and the UK stretcher handles were too thick to fit into the locking devices on the stretcher straps.
They were all supposed to be modified. I was concerned that if we used war stocks we may end up with unmodded ones. This was a surprise to them.
They also wanted to casevac the casualties straight home on the Herc.
In the end sense prevailed and it was agreed the Herc would take them to Akro and the VC10/Tristar would take them home in rather more comfort.
Why is it we always have to fight a war on two fronts to get the job done, the enemy within and the enemy without ?

[CoffmanStarter]

Gents ...

All very sobering indeed.

My dear old Dad (WWII RE Bomb Disposal Officer ... and holder of the MC) said on many occasions that ... "When the balloon goes up you have to do what's necessary to get the job done. Your training helps you make the right calls, but no amount of peacetime procedural training will be sufficient to prepare you for what you will be faced with or required to do in action" ... Your personal recounts above are continuing testimony to My Dad's words.

AA62 ... It always amazes me how "others", not usually at the sharp end (or haven't been there for a while), and possibly further up the tree, don't instinctively seek advice from the guys actually "doing the job" in the Fist Instance :ugh:

I too wish to pay my respects to the Sea King Crew who lost their lives in the FI tragedy.

Coff.

[Mal Drop]

Our solution to the troop exfils was that they lined up in rows of three and quick-marched up the ramp until they started bouncing off FS245. Each row was counted off by the ALM and guesstimated at 1,000lbs. When we were full (or at MTOW) the ramp was closed and strops attached to floorpoints were secured across each row to provide something to hold onto.

On the Casevac side I remember doing a full mission profile to examine how effective we would be. The low-level turbulence and jinking required to avoid oil-fires. helos, particularly tall camels etc. would have ensured that any pax who were not injured on boarding, would have been by the time we landed. As I recall, we also had the callsign 'Stiff' which I was told was thought up by one of the STS wags.

[smujsmith]

Mal Drop,

Interesting your "guesstimated" weight for troops. I was always led to believe that Albert cold not be overloaded (weight wise) by self loading freight. Having seen some estimated numbers for people moved on the Dacca Airlift, I'm wondering if in reality, with people, it was fill to max and fly ? I'm sure the likes of AA62 will have an opinion on that, and I will no doubt get a slapping;). Of course, with troops, you have the baggage they carry as well, which may account for the need for an estimate.

Chickenlover,

Thanks for the link to the end of Terry, I had some fine times in that aircraft, with some fine people.

Smudge:ok:

[Mal Drop]

Guesstimates required because:

1. No official figures were promulgated for AUW of exfil troops complete with war kit, weapons and whatever other interesting items they had.
2. No air movements terminals on the small patches of bulldozed and oiled sand where the above could be weighed to within a sixteenth of an ounce (we were still in Imperial units back then).
3. We needed to get the job done, engines running and with a minimum of fannying about.

As I recall from my refugee/humanitarian sorties elsewhere, our passengers tended to be a bit lighter than the average British infantryman and were less prone to carrying honking great bergens and other big bags of stuff that goes bang. The non-SF folks also usually operated from a paved surface rather than an ad-hoc bit of desert which had been cleared as a strip.

[Bengerman]

I proposed we adopt the well tried USAF Vietnam method of just sitting them on the floor.

That sparked an old memory from June 1985.

On XV 189, I remember it so well because it was unbearably hot and humid in Goose, seriously rare event, and the blackflies were up and about munching (!) everyone in sight. A forest fire was raging just across the river and was bearing down on the airfield, more pertinently on the fuel storage plant on the edge of the airfield.

At Dark o'clock the phone rang (crew residing in the Labrador Inn due to decorators!) and was quickly replaced in holder with expletives echoing down the phone line. When someone actually did listen to the caller, discovering that he had recently told that senior officer to F*** O** and stop disturbing him, he got the news that the crew of XV189 was required at the airfield immediately with the intention of evacuating over 200 personnel down to Gander in the event of the fire jumping the river and threatening the fuel storage.

Albert was thus decked out with a festive looking interior as the Loadmaster branch got down to setting up lashing tape in a continuous maze, much like airports of today, for the passengers to be guided aboard and to have something to hold on to.

As it happens, the wind changed as dawn broke and we all went back to bed. Something of an anti-climax, but at least the blackflies couldn't get through the triple glazing of the Labrador Inn. 12 hours later it was back to Lyneham.....via Honington!

[1.3VStall]

Bengerman,

I was at Goose that night - roused from my scratcher in the early hours I climbed through a trap door on to the roof of the block to see a wall of flame and hear the roar of the fire approaching the base. Only the fact that we had had an end of detachment beer call that evening and I, like the rest of the sqn, was three sheets to the wind saved me from pooing my pants!

We staggered down to the hangar and readied and flight planned the Tornados to fly out to Gander. Fortunately, as you relate, the wind changed direction at the last minute and the threat disappeared.

It was our sqn boss, A**** F******n, who was initially told to f*** o** by the Albert crew. I believe he got the message through quite forcefully on the second call.

As you say, it all ended well and were back at Honington a day later.

Hard to believe that it was thirty years ago!

[ancientaviator62]

Mal Drop,
your solution was identical to my proposal except that I intended that we slung slack chains across the a/c for them to hold on to. Of course with a really full load they were so packed in that any movement was rendered impossible and therefore restraint was not needed. The weights were always a considered guesstimate. In your casaevac 'experiment' did you have the full book casevac fit of 70 stretchers plus two attendants ?
As you rightly say humanitarian evacs usually meant much lighter pax without the troops very heavy kit.

[Mal Drop]

AA, we had stretchers fitted but I'm not sure whether we attempted the full complement. There were also attendants but again, I cant recall whether they were actual medical personnel or just some gash shags who were rolled up into the trial. What I do remember with absolute clarity is that we seemed to be distinctly lacking in useful guidance from the top of the food chain meaning that practical operators like you had to come up with workable solutions which were passed from crew to crew to be locally implemented.

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
in theory you are correct about overloading the a/c with pax. However this really only applies to 'normal' pax with a book weight of 180lbs. (is this figure still in use ?). So in theory we could load up to the max of say 90 plus two ALMs provided you had the fuel on first. This of course was on the original 'K' with a TOW of 155000lbs.
However a war load of troops (or paras) was a quite different proposition ! Even trying to get accurate figures for the weight of their kit was a task in itself especially away from a main base.
When half the 'K' fleet was stretched the seat figure went up to 128, with a corresponding increase in the para figures. To partly compensate the TOW of the stretch was upped to 160000lbs from 155000lbs. Iniitally the landing weight was left at 130000lbs but certain trips (mainly Taceval) caused problems so it was upped to 135000lbs. Paradoxically the original frames had their landing weight upped too!
The ZFW remained the same for both marks at 117892, an amazingly 'accurate' figure. And do not get me started on the fuselage bending moments !!!!

[ksimboy]

AA62, I was trying to forget about bending moments, although they did lead to an intersting discussion with a female C141 ALM in Thule of all places. Next we will be covering the 11D lol :ugh:

[ancientaviator62]

ksmboy,
I am afraid that smudge's question about pax was rather like Pavlov ringing the bell for his dog ! When I did the HEART job I indulged one of my hobby horses and tried to find out the origins of much of the content of the -11D. Not even Hercule Poirot and Miss Marple combined could have made sense of that puzzle.

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/BASHAATASI_zpsd695d109.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/BASHAATASI_zpsd695d109.jpg.html)

The successor to 'Concertina City'. Typical 'basha' at RAF Travellers Hill in ASI. Do they still exist and are they used I wonder.

[ksimboy]

I did use 11D to get a vehicle on to the aircraft once, bringing a low slung sports car back from a Jersey weekend, shoved under the rear wheel allowed just enough clearance for the exhaust pipe over the toe ramps. Not strictly what it was meant to be used for but did the job.

[Mal Drop]

When I was looking after Ascension from my office at Strike I used to visit the island a lot. The standard accommodation for us at the time was the bashas shown and at one stage I was in a double unit with the other room being occupied by the unit doc who had the same rank and surname as me. Having been roused at 2am one fine night I was hustled into a Landy to attend a medical emergency. Slightly taken aback by the turn of events I suggested that there may have been a slight clerical error and that perhaps if they had explained the situation en-route I could have suggested they wake up the chap next door.

[ancientaviator62]

kmsboy,
brilliant. I can think of no finer use for the -11D !
Mal Drop,
you should have just carried on with the medical emergency. After all as these pages have demonstrated there is nothing the 'K' team cannot turn their hands to. Towards the end of the ASI tanking dets those bashas were so little used that we could have had one for each crew member.

[Bts70]

Always a good pointer that TACEVAL was nearing its end when the role bay was called to prep a frame for full CASEVAC ASAP. I remember some MACR informing us of its pointless exercise due to the lack of stretchers available to be fitted.

Always a bit cautious dipping my hand in the strop bins in the hogs trough after we found what can best be described as a spider of foreign origin in there once, scary when dead never mind alive.

[ancientaviator62]

Bts70,
did you ever actually role the 'K' in full caseavac ? If so I would be interested in any problems you had.

[November4]

With the talk of moving troops reminded me...

Just before the ground war started and the troops needed to be moved quickly, HQ BFME discussed the issue, obviously not knowing this had already been discussed by AA . They spoke to the Kiwis who were geared up for this by putting pallets down to make a flat floor then putting ratchet strops across the floor in rows. The troops emplaned sat down facing the rear and held onto the strops.

All well and good but OC UKMAMS Wg Cdr (R******d M*****l), decided that this was not good enough and decided that the RAF were to do the same except the strop was to go over the thighs of the troops and tightened to provide a form of restraint.....!!

When someone asked which side the Wg Cdr was on as what he was proposing was liable to break the legs of every soldier on board, he backed down.

This was the same OC UKMAMS who wrote a 2 page letter to all MAMS in Riyadh, telling us we had to abide by H&S at all times and it was our duty to remove ourselves from any potential dangerous situations. Seeing as I was reading it with my respirator following another Scud alert, I said I wanted to go home as per the OCs letter.

I got told to read on and in the last paragraph, he said that being in the RAF we might find ourselves in situations where we had to just carry on as the mission came first. A complete waste of paper and time in sending the letters but the Wg Cdr's a@ was covered I suppose.

[ksimboy]

Seeing the pic of the ASI BASHA reminds of the rather inclement day the tanker crew sat outside the ALM/Eng accom having a post lunch/pre dinner sharpener. Rain heaving down ,co pilot informs crew "hut 2levels above ours is moving". Duly told by Captain to stop drinking as the rest of us watch hut slip last end of the row of huts. An interesting day all in all , another one of the many Albert produced.

[dragartist]

Bts70 Enjoyed your spider story. Reminded me of some camel spiders that were brought back to AFPSU in parachutes for repacking. This caused such a fuss. London Zoo were brought in and the place had to be fumigated. Not sure if the same was true of the packing shed PEF at Brize.


AA62, yes you are right about the pedigree of the books. The 11C1 was hilarious in parts.


When I was at JATE circa 95 got a bit involved in straps/strops to hold troopers to the lashing rings on the floor in choppers. Not very crashworthy but better than nowt. I know efforts are being made to make the A400M seats crashworthy. What happened to plans to bolt old VC10 seats to 463L pallets?

[smujsmith]

Talking of "varmints" various. Anyone have knowledge of the large rodent (Copi Capybara ?) that chewed out the wiring loom to the Cargo bay pack, before expiring at altitude ? I'm sure I once read that it happened.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

November4,
I in my innocence thought we had sorted all this troop loading business at the meeting. As you say It was all about 'ass covering' . I recall a signal we received in the build up phase saying all the normal DAC (Dangerous Air Cargo) regulations were to be observed. Of course this swiftly proved to be impossible so MOD were reduced to issuing exemptions on an almost daily basis. The subsequent file would have chocked a jumbo jet.
dragartist,
the issue of the crashworthiness (actually otherwise) of the 'K' para seats was raised during the HEART investigation. I understood the the 'J' would be in the same situation under the 'grandfather rights'.
'Proper seats (ex Beverley) had been trialed on the 'K' in the early days with adaptors to fit the seats to the floor points. As you point out others had used modified 463L pallets on which to mount the seats. The drawback to any of these schemes was the added weight and the loss of role flexibility which was such a vital part of Herc ops.
When I was on 48 in Changi we used to do a trip known as the Gan-Karachi.
This entailed taking the Pakistani workers home from Gan at the end of their contract. To comply with the insurance requirements we had to transport them with the modded ex Beverley seats !

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/scan0021_zps98fe9ff6.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/scan0021_zps98fe9ff6.jpg.html)

For sale one slightly secondhand Catalina, suit DIY enthusiast. Taken in the lagoon at Diego Garcia. It was wrecked in a storm in WW2 and has been rotting slowly ever since. The RM det there took us for a high speed trip in the RIB. At that time, pre GW1 the lagoon was full of cargo ships etc. These were all used in that conflict I believe. The captain and I borrowed a sailing boat and sailed right round them. Will tell about the route trip in the next post.

[smujsmith]

AA62, I had two very brief visits to DG in the build up to GW1. Never was introduced to that Cat, but did see a lot of crabs. A few nights there would have been appreciated. Nice shot though, and typical of the beautiful beaches available around the Indian Ocean. I was one of two GEs tasked to a 47SF deployment to Abu Dhabi as part of the GW1 build up, and boy did it start with a bang. Lyneham, refuel Akrotiri for Abu Dhabi and our Det. Whilst we were all busy unloading the aircraft, Captain returns from ops with the "gen". We are to fly to DG, collect a submarine Captain and return him to Riyadh for a briefing. No probs skipper (we all thought) a nights sleep and we will be fit to go. No chance, the Captain pitched in with the unloading, Albert (XV205) received 62,900 lbs of go juice and off we went (flat floors). On landing at DG, a speedy refuel, on load the Sub Skipper and off we set. By now the two GE hammocks were being used on a hot bed basis, we did rig some seats but our hammocks were favoured. Meanwhile, I got to operate the galley, and sit a few hours on radio watch in the Co pilots seat, with the Captain. When we arrived at Riyadh, we were told that we could bed down on the aircraft, we were not to leave the airfield and should be ready to move at short notice, back to DG.

It transpired that the Sub involved in this had been tasked with a recce of the Kuwait beaches, they were thinking of a seaborne invasion at that point. Our bringing her Captain to Riyadh allowed a full briefing before his mission.

We got around 8 hours sleep on the aircraft at Riyadh, at that point I could have slept on the point of a dagger, and at least it wasn't vibrating as it usually did. When the Sub Captain returned, we headed back to DG and 14 hours on the ground. We were invited aboard the sub, and enjoyed a couple of beers in the wardroom. We slept like logs that night and headed back to Abu Dhabi next day. I'm sure, there are plenty of ex Hercules crew who can approximate the working/flying hours to the point of our arrival back at Abu Dhabi. Luckily, as I recall it coincided with early afternoon local time. All I heard, loud and clear was "0700 local start in the morning lads" from our Captain, some HALO lifts before starting the LL infil/exfil stuff. Sorry for the long post, it was probably the busiest three days in my life, but it does show how Albert Airways could accommodate service exigencies.

NB. I posted this tale on another thread some months ago. It included an incident that occurred during the trip which I have decided needs leaving out in these circumstances. About twenty minutes after I posted it, I had a PM from a "chap" asking me to remove it forthwith, "it might reflect badly on the aircrew", though I had offered no ID on any of my fellow participants. I removed it and heard no more. I hope that if he is reading this now, he is not preparing yet another "request to remove". What happened at the start of that detachment was bloody hard work, to keep everyone safe took some planning, and, whilst a long stint, at the start of our Det to Abu Dhabi, we really were a crew.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
my two trips to DG were rather more routine than yours. First time in the long WW2 wooden huts. Second time in air con blocks after the makeover. Pics taken on the second visit.
We were tasked to pick up some SBS chaps from Halim in Indonesia where they had been on exercise. The routing was:
Lyn-Bahrein-Seeb (RTB, fuel leak the log book says)-Bahrein (frame change)-Colombo-Paya Lebar-Halim-DG-Nairobi-Luxor-Palermo-Lyn.
The cunning plan was for the SBS hve built up the pallets with their kit for a QTR at Halim. We get to Halim in the dark and in the rain. Very hot and humid.
They have built up the pallets alright except that every pallet is upside down !
I am screening a new (lady) ALM so while she does the trim the SBS and I sort it all out and off we go. I warn the captain that the weight of the cargo may not be quite as manifested, but everything is OK.
Just past the crit point for diverting to The Seychelles we have a problem with the number two engine so on we go to DG for five nights whilst the problem is sorted.
In the BX they have all kinds of goodies including the headgear you see below.
We just could not resist it !

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/CREWATDIEGOGARCIA_zps8d4eb48d.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/CREWATDIEGOGARCIA_zps8d4eb48d.jpg.html)

[CoffmanStarter]

:D:D:D:D Don't look now Chaps ... But the Concert Party has just arrived ;)

[Fugazi1000]

..the boys to entertain Yooooouuuuuu.......

[smujsmith]

AA62, Goldilocks and the five bears. I'm sure Her Majesties Royal Marines would be proud of your headware. Interesting that the young lady must have been one of our first "lady Loadies", certainly before my time. Izzy was the dominant lady in my day. Nice pic though, and epitomises the crew ethic I mentioned. Keep em coming, I'm still searching for my Nav bag !!!!!

Smudge:ok:

[Bts70]

With regards stretcher fits........ whilst many of us cursed stuffing the strops into / dragging them out of stowage pre / post depth maintenance, and often wondered if the side stanchions really needed that many brackets it all became obvious come TACEVAL. Most had been on enough routes to know what the cowhorns were for, and rigged the static frame for families day to show people the various fits that Albert could achieve. This included a centre stanchion with stretcher so we knew a little bit!

Sods law dictated the frame chosen was in a 13C or 3A, part of the fun for the umpires no doubt. I forget what numeric role config the fit was but out would come the 5E for the NCO to study (remember those days when an NCO had to supervise role fits). So rambling on ...........re-role to clear floor, keeping the centre stanchions in and move the brackets to correct position. Slacken seat backs, install cowhorns and start dragging out the strops (colour co-ordinated and correctly positioned of course).

From my experience this was usually an hour or so into the role CX and the umpire would stand in and either halt the task, or as in one case inform us that the LOX plant (next door) had been hit & we were to act as casualties. Not sure we would survive such a blast but never mind.........point is we never achieved much of the re-role so can`t confirm what problems we would face further down the line, just to add after the first exercise we learnt well and just got one strop out at a time until we were stopped.

[smujsmith]

Bts70,

The "Roly squippers" certainly had a busy life, and for myself and a fellow ex GE (who doesn't post, but watches) have our admiration. We both, in discussing role changes etc wondered why in our time a few days with Role equipment section was not part of the GEs course. As a rigger by trade, the role changes created down route were OK, but I reckon the Avionics trade based GEs struggled a bit. I had the pleasure of doing several routes where major role changes required that the SVC was a squipper, and always enjoyed some banter, and lessons on how to do it properly. The beauty of the Albert team was that they came from every nook and cranny Lyneham had to offer.

Smudge:ok:

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
the G/Es certainly did lots of role changes usually alongside the ALM . I still have my certificate authorising me to do role changes and sign for them.
I am reminded that the frame change mentioned in my DG story also involved a role change at Bahrein. We had to txfer all the side guidance , roller conveyor etc to the new frame. The new lady loadie suffered in the heat so I parked her under the wing in the shade with my scarf soaked in water round her head. Did nothing for her hair but achieved the object. The G/E and I then did the role change. The lady in question was one of the first ab initio ALMs to come to the Herc. As for Izzie I was her boss on 30 and helped her with her prep for OASC commissioning board. My wife and I then attended her passing out parade at Cranwell. It rained cats and dogs but we had a very good party in the evening.

[ancientaviator62]

With reference to Coff's request for unusual loads carried in the 'K'. My log book records 'Benbecula-Benbecula-15 mins RTB Lance missile leaking' ! Now whether this leak came from the missile itself or the tracked vehicle on which it was fitted I cannot now remember. Once had an acid spillage but that story can wait till next time.

[CoffmanStarter]

Crikey AA62 ... That's a bit of a weight I'll bet :eek:

http://arcaneafvs.com/lance/lance4.jpg

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
it was and a tight fit too. But then so was the tracked Rapier which of course the British Army were not originally intended to have.

[ksimboy]

Tracked Rapier was one of the few loads where ready access was cleared below the vehicle i seem to recall?

[ancientaviator62]

ksimboy,
ref tracked Rapier you may well be right. The missiles were mounted on a USA chassis not unlike that of the Lance. When loading any of these type of loads you had to get it nigh on perfectly lined up outside the a/c. Once on the a/c manoeuvring was very limited and if attempted could result in the tracks spitting the loadspreaders out to one side. I was on the trial for the tracked Rapier and I seem to recall problems getting the driver out once it was on the a/c. However this may be a (confused) recollection of something else. I was also involved with the trial of that well known Airfix kit, the Puma, into the 'K' after the demise of the Belfast. A number of 'gotchas' in that !

[CoffmanStarter]

As you say ... looks like another tight fit :eek:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Tracked_Rapier%2C_Tankfest_2009.jpg/640px-Tracked_Rapier%2C_Tankfest_2009.jpg

Rear view ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/RAF_Museum_Cosford_-_DSC08518.JPG/640px-RAF_Museum_Cosford_-_DSC08518.JPG

Side view ...

[Hempy]

From ARRSE-pedia. Made me giggle.

C-130 Hercules

Type: STOL military transport aircraft
Manufacturer: Lockheed Corporation
Introduction: December 1956
Status: In service
Number built: 2,262
Cost : $66.5 million

The venerable Lockheed C130 transport aircraft is known in British service as the 'Hercules'. Primarily used for shifting large amounts of duty free alcohol and cigarettes back to the UK, for onward sale round the back of most pubs in the Brize Norton and Lyneham areas, it has also been successfully adapted by the RAF for transporting small amounts of non-duty free cargo (when space allows), and sometimes even personnel. It should be remembered that as the result of CAA regulations, non RAF aircrew flying in Hercules's may not transport anything that is slightly pointy or can be made to go bang. There are no exceptions to this, so 16 Air Assault Brigade can forget any notions they might have about parachute or TALO operations: movers won't allow it.
The C130 has been the world's most prolific military tactical heavy-lift aircraft for nearly 40 years.

The Hercules C1 first entered RAF service in 1968, replacing the Blackburn Beverley and the Armstrong-Whitworth Argosy. Not a great difference in lift capacity between the Beverley and the Herc, just an enormous range advantage - about 8 x the range of the old boxcar. I flew to Northern Ireland in 1969 in a Royal Air Force Herc C1: cramped, noisy, & uncomfortable. 36 years later, I flew in a Royal Australian Air Force C130J: cramped, noisy, & uncomfortable. (Why change a winning combination?)

The Herc has served in dozens of air forces worldwide, & continues to provide invaluable service to our troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, The Falklands, East Timor - in short, anywhere that troops require heavy-lift resup, reinforcement, CASEVAC or MEDEVAC, often using short and primitive bush runways.

The C130 is affectionately known to NATO air and ground crew alike as the "Fat Albert" and the Hercules pilot generally enjoys the same esteem in the aviating community as an illiterate Bosnian goat herder at the Monaco Grand Prix.

A favourite stunt by the Air Load master ( a mover with GCSE's who doesn't get airsick ) is to point out the tiny port hole windows to baby Paras on their first jump and inform them that it is their only means of exit from the aircraft once airborne. Even if it were possible to open it an anorexic whippet without a parachute would struggle to get through. The bewildered looks of panic on the baby Paras' faces is the cause of many a late night chuckle in the mess.

When deploying on detachment an RAF Squadron will cram all the ground support equipment, rations, spares, kit and ground crew into the one Fat Albert that has been designated for the task. The mechanic who can endure a noisy, cramped 15 hour flight with a towing arm up one nostril and a spanner up his catflap without complaining is a rare beast.

Thanks to the mighty dollar US Air Force Squadrons on the other hand generally task separate Fat Alberts for the transportation of men, machinery, barbecue equipment, baseball kit, Budweiser and Coca Cola.

To date the C130 is one of the few aircraft capable of delivering the notorious "Daisy Cutter" bomb, the munition that did so much to eradicate Osama Bin Laden's DNA from the gene pool. Also the C130 is a very old aircraft and is liable to fall to pieces at any moment.

In the mid-1990s, a select group of RAF staff officers drew up outline plans for the Air Defence variant (Hercules F5). This entailed installing rotary AMRAAM dispensers under the wings, capable of being mechanically reloaded in flight from additional weapon stocks in the cargo hold. The F5 was intended to operate in conjunction with a dedicated AWACS ac. Long-range target detection would result in the F5 discharging numerous AMRAAM in the general direction of the "incoming raid". AAR would enable the F5/AWACS pair to remain on station for several days. The plan foundered when the staff group sobered up and found they had lost the beer mat on which they had scribbled the draft OR.

[ancientaviator62]

Hempy,
hilarious. If you look at pics of some of the USAF Hercs modified to carry drones under the wings an AD version of the Herc is possible ! Actually more relevant would be the carriage of cruise missiles under the wings.

[smujsmith]

I was fortunate enough , during my time, to take part in an exchange visit to Hurlbert Field, with a 47SF crew. Some good flying, but as the 8th SOS was one of the units that delivered the "Daisy cutter", they were in possession of what was thought at the time to be the last of its kind. It really was a beast of a bomb, I believe last dropped in anger in GW1 by 8th SOS, who also lost an aircraft on a Daisy cutter mission. Did the K ever drop munitions ? Or did it just deliver them to user units, I can't say I've heard of any such ops.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b572/smujsmith/1306b99c67b9f0dfa4960026ccf8b640_zpsafe8d062.jpg
The beast on a condec. (From Bing images)


Smudge:ok:

[dragartist]

Smudge, Not sure if I had stated before but in late 90s early 2000s the Americans were playing with something similar to the daisy cutter out at YPG. under the guise of a Kistler satellite launch rocket. It was dropped under parachutes then they lit the fires. A UK team from Irvin were out doing the trials some of them stayed and were still there the last time I went in 2011. If you look for the parachute test centre adjacent to Laguna airfield on google maps satellite view the test vehicles are still in the scrap compound.


Pictures exist of an Argentine c130 used as a bomber during the Falklands.


So far as I know we never dropped any such things.


An MSP load of 105 or even 80mm mortar rounds may make a big bang

[smujsmith]

Drag, thanks for that. Interesting site. I see there appears to be a C130 wingless fuselage just to the NW of the vehicles. So, we have more than the Daisy cutters already.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Drag ... Did a bit of digging ...

Argentinian C-130 with pylons and gun sight from a Pucara ...

http://i.imgur.com/Q1wtx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9ZH4G.jpg

I just wonder if the gun sight would have added any value in terms of achieving some level of accuracy ?

Source and more pics ...

Impressive Weapons Load - Page 26 (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?144596-Impressive-Weapons-Load!/page26)

[Mal Drop]

So, not a movements team working from the wrong diagrams and the trial version of a Captain's heated cupholder?

[dragartist]

I knew you would Coff ;)


Smudge, I guess the cab would have been used for training airdrop load rigging. The facility was similar in some ways to JATE. I don't recall seeing it there in the flesh. They had similar difficulties to us in getting frames for airdrop trials. they were grateful to many of the Air National Guard units that would pitch up following a request. In spite of the USAF having so many C130s they still used the civy one and even the C123 from the Conair film on occasion.


I remain eternally grateful to the guys who ran that facility for looking after us in the aftermath of 13 years ago last week.

[Old Fella]

The link below will take you to the last C130A still operational with AeroProducts propellers. It is one of the 12 C130A's which entered RAAF service during late 1958 to early 1959. Former RAAF A97-212 which is currently on the market. Has been in the hands of Earl Cherry Aviation in Louisiana for many years and has been used in a variety of roles, including testing of wing-tip fuel pods, para-dropping and as pictured, Aerial Refueling pods (hose & drogue) trials. I spent many hours in this old girl during my RAAF time. Hope she finds a kind home for a while and does not end up in a scrap yard too soon.


Former A97-212 (now N131EC) Trialling Refuel Pods Photo by OldFellah | Photobucket (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/OldFellah/media/RefuelingPods118-1.jpg.html?o=0)

[ancientaviator62]

I as far as I am aware there were no clearances for dropping bombs etc from our 'K', other than the mines previously noted. However based on the USAF Vietnam experience it would not have been too difficult a job. As dragartist has said an MSP load would make a suitable ordnance load. Could always bring back the SSP
and drop three of them.

[CoffmanStarter]

I'm only posting this clip to demonstrate the "extraction" method given what we have been discussing ...

BLU-82 Vietnam

BLU-82 Daisy Cutter - YouTube

Does that Detonation Probe appear to only just clear the ramp ?

[ancientaviator62]

Coff,
the probe does look close. Perhaps the telephoto lens makes it seem closer than it is. Perhaps.............
Of course my famous high(ish) altitude ULLA did make a large hole in Knighton Down. The APFC with a detonator would make an improvised LZ creator. !

[ancientaviator62]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/Misc_0000166A_zps69cb6d37.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/Misc_0000166A_zps69cb6d37.jpg.html)

I do not think this pic has appeared before. This is the aft face of the MSP and you can see the main parachute risers attached to the block. Note the Condec is the same colour as those in the daisy cutter video., before the RAF went 'green' !

[hoodie]

Daisy cutter? How about airdropping a Minuteman ICBM? :eek:

Not from a C-130, I grant you (so hopefully you'll forgive), but as airdrop loads go it must have been a hell of a thing.

96A0wb1Ov9k
(The shots from inside the aircraft look more like a C-141 than C-5 to me - I wonder if there was a Starlifter proof of concept as well?)

There's more on the story here (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/09/travel/c5-galaxy-dover-museum-minuteman-missile/).

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130807202026-c5-minuteman-cradle-horizontal-gallery.jpg

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130807202216-c5-minuteman-cradle-single-horizontal-gallery.jpg

[Davef68]

ksimboy,
ref tracked Rapier you may well be right. The missiles were mounted on a USA chassis not unlike that of the Lance.

Both based on the M548, which was derived from the M113

[November4]

I was on the team that loaded the first tracked rapier (TR) out of Lyneham . It was being taken on a sales tour of the US by BAe(?), driven and operated by some soldiers.

Our Cpl had it lined up perfectly with the ramp and turned his back to check that everyone was in position to start to get it up the ramp. While he did that, the Army bloke in charge of the TR / Escorts, thinking he was being helpful, got the driver to slightly skew the TR. Our Cpl realigned it but the Army bloke skewed it again. In the end the Army escorts were told "to go away" and the driver was told in no uncertain terms to follow our Cpl's marshaling exactly.

You had to get the TR lined up perfectly as the steering was not precise to enough to allow for any slight change in direction without potential damage to the Hercules.

[smujsmith]

So now we begin to see evidence that "in between" the lucrative route flying, aircrew, AD, MAMS et al did do productive work:eek: As a GE I rarely saw anything big depart the back of the aircraft, so it must have been something to see these loads going out. I'm sure, things like fast trim changes etc must have made great demands on the crews, both pilots and the rest in that a hang up of any kind could lead to disaster. I wish I had seen a little more of this stuff for real, for me it tended to be watching the "self unloading" freight depart the ramp. But then, the aircraft did need to be able to support the load of my wallet:rolleyes:

Smudge:ok:

[November4]

A couple of years ago, some photos came into my possession from the archives when MAMS moved to Brize. These are photos of printed images so apologies about the quality.

The first few are of Hercules being loaded with other aircraft

http://i60.tinypic.com/2wedncy.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/24c5too.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/fm2xom.jpg

TACEVAL....pallets of cluster bombs built on the Calne strip, loaded and flown to Brize, offloaded, driven back to Lyneham on trucks, broken down and rebuilt on the Calne strip, loaded.....you get the picture!

http://i60.tinypic.com/fupa1e.jpg

[GreenKnight121]

Just one more off0topic about the C-5A - Minuteman III trials - at least one was not a "dummy drop":

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/Aircraft/MMIII_C5_airdropOct_1974_zps7d00ba66.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/Bager1968/media/Aircraft/MMIII_C5_airdropOct_1974_zps7d00ba66.jpg.html)

[ancientaviator62]

November4,
very nice pics of the MRCA (Multi Role Capable Aircraft) with a variety of loads. The heli pic looks like the Puma which had to be taken apart and then shoehorned into the 'K'. I was at JATE when we did the trials and a great deal of head scratching went on. One of the big 'gotchas' involved part of the tail boom assembly. It was squeezed up the front on the starboard side. If you were not careful it was very easy to hit the booster hydraulic system and break the sight glass as the tail assembly was moved into position. Yes we did it on the trial. But it was also done later on when those who 'knew' better did not bother reading the pink (mandatory) tie down scheme.
The British Army was never intended to have tracked rapier. When we did the trials at JATE it was to demonstrate to the customer (Iran) that it would be air transportable in the Herc. Before they could be delivered Iran had the revolution.
So they were not delivered or paid for. So the MOD bought them for the army to prevent a huge loss to the companies involved.

[ancientaviator62]

smudge,
a while back you mention a friend of yours who had a tale about someone going out with the heavy drop. I doubted it ! Any chance of an update on the story ?

[dionysius]

The pic of the harvard was taken at deci in the mid 80's. The Italian AF harvard had been rescued from the scrap compound and donated to a museum in UK, we set about building it on a double pallet and "devised" a suitable tie down scheme, boy did our chins drop when we saw the alm of the aircraft, none other that Macr Pa@@e who was a route checker at that time 😕.but to be fair he was more than happy with everything and the harvard was duly returned to lyneham. ☺

[ancientaviator62]

A trawl through my faithful friend, AKA my log book, shows that we took the tracked rapier to Hurn on 10 Nov 1976 in 'trembling two'. (this should trigger some memories of that esteemed frame)
The next day we went to Hurn to reload it and then flew it back to Brize via Filton. I have no idea why we did this as my log book is mute on the matter, but perhaps we were merely demonstrating that it WAS airportable.

[ancientaviator62]

dionysius,
your tale of the Harvard chimes with mine about the recovery of the London-Sydney Car Marathon cars. There is often a fine line between 'book' restraint of these worn out objects and trashing the very thing being restrained.
When I was an examiner I like to think that I would apply that commonsense.

[CoffmanStarter]

Very interesting pics there November4 ... Thanks for posting :ok:

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

Just a thought Gents ... How about we spend a little time recounting "Mission Callsigns" for Albert and the reasoning behind why a particular callsign was chosen. That's Callsigns outside the more usual "Ascot" or "RAFAir" format :ok:

We've already had mentioned "Monti 66" ...

Might prompt a few more stories :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

[Wander00]

Blimey, that mention of the London-Sydney Marathon dislodged a log in the memory jam - one of the navs on 360 crewed one of the Hillman Hunters - Carrington was his surname, cannot remember his first name

[dragartist]

AA62,
I must apologise if I made your task on the Puma more difficult than it could have been. Back in 82/3 I designed the radome for the RWR that hangs under the tail boom. The one thing I found out later was that the tail boom had to come off. (obviously not in your scheme) The problem was that the cables to the front and rear were a matched pair and hellish to remove. I don't believe it was as simple as just disconnecting the plug and coiling the cable up in front of the joint.

[ksimboy]

Coff
El Centro diets brought out some rather unusual call signs, dependent on amount consumed the previous evening. We did 2 days dropping as "Giver 1", then changed when the lady controller was on to " Slipper 1). When the land speed record was broken "Thrust 1" reared its head. The classic comment another day was just prior to chopping to El Centro approach the r/t call of "LA control , Elvis has left the DZ" (used once ). :)

[CoffmanStarter]

Thats the spirit Ksimboy :D:D:D:D :ok:

Elvis has left the DZ ...

Brilliant !!!

[ancientaviator62]

dragartist,
apologise not. The Puma had all the characteristics of an Airfix kit when it was presented to the a/c. It was not uncommon for a bit of kit to be cleared for air transport early in its career only for problems to arise later when it had been modded whilst in service.http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/OPVIGOURCAMPMOMBASA_zps85a9090e.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/OPVIGOURCAMPMOMBASA_zps85a9090e.jpg.html)

In exactly one week I will be off to Ozz for three weeks and will be absent from this thread. So I thought I would get my OP Vigour posts in before I went. It will be an unfolding story. Op Vigour (originally called Op Plebeian, can you imagine that ) was the Somalia relief op during 1992/3. The USA called it 'Provide Comfort and Provide Hope. If you have sen the pic 'Blackhawk Down' this is the same operation. Our participation was jointly funded by MOD and the Ministry for Overseas Aid. This was to cause problems later.
We were based at Mombasa in Kenya with two a/c, four crews, G/Es, groundcrew and other support trades. We also had six RAFP two of whom flew, armed, on all the relief sorties.
Pic above is part of our camp on the airfield. And yes I know the a/c in the pic is not a Herc. The GAF were next door to us with their Transalls. We envied then as they airdropped (we airlanded all our supplies) and they were well set up with a bratwurst and beer stall . We used the small PX that the USAF had brought in. They ran the flying program decided the loads etc as theirs was a far larger commitment of personnel and machines.
More next time.