Chaos at Terminal 5
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T5 Union rats
Van Horeck, pray tell what Union Rattus do you speak off??? that sabotaged the best efforts of British Airways in destroying a nations gateway?
Also I find it confusing that you agree and slate the BA management, yet hold the Unions which are only defending their members from the onslaught of the managerial incompetence ongoing at BA. Please, as with all posters side with one or th'other.
Also I find it confusing that you agree and slate the BA management, yet hold the Unions which are only defending their members from the onslaught of the managerial incompetence ongoing at BA. Please, as with all posters side with one or th'other.
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There are perhaps far wider reaching implications to the shambles that BA have shown the rest of the world over the opening of T5. The Top Brass of many of the ONEWORLD partners are far from pleased as are their passengers. Look to China, and the massive terminals at PEK and PVG, there are and will not be any problems on the scale of T5. I am lead to believe that it is quicker to flight connect to Gatwick than to transfer to T123. LHR East due to open in summer 2012, welcome to Third World Britain.
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vanHorck
I also hope the union rats who sabotaged will loose their job and rot away in the dole.
I also hope the union rats who sabotaged will loose their job and rot away in the dole.
The sabotage was entirely down to hopelessly incompetent planning and THAT is down to a massively incompetent and out-of-touch management, with the very worst example at the top.
You're not a KLM manager are you by any chance ?
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No, i may be Dutch but i dont work for KLM.
I m referring to the statements that the staff were late arriving at their work on day one (not the subsequent signing in problems).
I am also talking about attitude that i saw too often at Heathrow and which I find irritating..... thinking more about their own rules and less about the people who pay the bills.
In my view like everywhere there are those staff members who try hard to make things a success and those who try to ride the wave only concerned about their own comfort.
But we all agree the management is the principal culprit here and i hope they are dealt with as a matter of priority. BA's shares were down 3% already I heard on the news just now, so I m sure the shareholders will start to act soon
I m referring to the statements that the staff were late arriving at their work on day one (not the subsequent signing in problems).
I am also talking about attitude that i saw too often at Heathrow and which I find irritating..... thinking more about their own rules and less about the people who pay the bills.
In my view like everywhere there are those staff members who try hard to make things a success and those who try to ride the wave only concerned about their own comfort.
But we all agree the management is the principal culprit here and i hope they are dealt with as a matter of priority. BA's shares were down 3% already I heard on the news just now, so I m sure the shareholders will start to act soon
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I have just come back from the Far East and have only really just caught up with the story and all the interviews on the web. I cannot understand the ineptitude of some staff. Whoever came up with the idea of giving out a letter with a maximum hotel fee of £100 wants stringing up. That letter will cost BA £5000 per passenger.
The decision to ban the BBC and Sky from T5 will bite harder than anything. I hope the news stations really do behave responsibly now and refuse to attend any Press/News Conferences, that WW/BA may call in an effort to put BA or indeed BAA in a positive light. You cannot choose the publicity you get. I find this decision more shocking than anything else. One may expect it in China, Russia, Zimbabwe etc (No disrespect to any citizens from there), but banning of media in the UK!! I think the papers will have a field day over the next week.
edited to add, just heard on Sky, the two places that they are banned from entering are Zimbabwe and T5
The decision to ban the BBC and Sky from T5 will bite harder than anything. I hope the news stations really do behave responsibly now and refuse to attend any Press/News Conferences, that WW/BA may call in an effort to put BA or indeed BAA in a positive light. You cannot choose the publicity you get. I find this decision more shocking than anything else. One may expect it in China, Russia, Zimbabwe etc (No disrespect to any citizens from there), but banning of media in the UK!! I think the papers will have a field day over the next week.
edited to add, just heard on Sky, the two places that they are banned from entering are Zimbabwe and T5
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vanHorck
No, i may be Dutch but i dont work for KLM.
I m referring to the statements that the staff were late arriving at their work on day one (not the subsequent signing in problems).
No, i may be Dutch but i dont work for KLM.
I m referring to the statements that the staff were late arriving at their work on day one (not the subsequent signing in problems).
I am also talking about attitude that i saw too often at Heathrow and which I find irritating..... thinking more about their own rules and less about the people who pay the bills.
In my view like everywhere there are those staff members who try hard to make things a success and those who try to ride the wave only concerned about their own comfort.
But we all agree the management is the principal culprit here and i hope they are dealt with as a matter of priority. BA's shares were down 3% already I heard on the news just now, so I m sure the shareholders will start to act soon
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Tigs2
I have just come back from the Far East and have only really just caught up with the story and all the interviews on the web. I cannot understand the ineptitude of some staff. Whoever came up with the idea of giving out a letter with a maximum hotel fee of £100 wants stringing up. That letter will cost BA £5000 per passenger.
I have just come back from the Far East and have only really just caught up with the story and all the interviews on the web. I cannot understand the ineptitude of some staff. Whoever came up with the idea of giving out a letter with a maximum hotel fee of £100 wants stringing up. That letter will cost BA £5000 per passenger.
Just another example of flat-out incomptence and ignorance from WW and his crew of management morons.
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PowerPoints
I think it's a deeply rooted and cultural thing with BA's management.
Their culture, amongst many other things, says "…….what's the cheapest way we can do this, period?" instead of "…….what's the cheapest way we can do this that works properly?" Minimise costs by all means but do the job properly first.
You can bet your sweet life that there will have been PowerPoint presentations ad nauseum on costed options and scenarios for the opening of T5 by the suits with MBA's. I further bet that a phased introduction process would superficially have cost more. Not any more
!
But ………. bringing BA to its knees would also hurt an awful lot of innocent boys and girls at LHR without necessarily applying mole grips to the goolies of the custodians of the culture I so much despise.
CW
Their culture, amongst many other things, says "…….what's the cheapest way we can do this, period?" instead of "…….what's the cheapest way we can do this that works properly?" Minimise costs by all means but do the job properly first.
You can bet your sweet life that there will have been PowerPoint presentations ad nauseum on costed options and scenarios for the opening of T5 by the suits with MBA's. I further bet that a phased introduction process would superficially have cost more. Not any more
!But ………. bringing BA to its knees would also hurt an awful lot of innocent boys and girls at LHR without necessarily applying mole grips to the goolies of the custodians of the culture I so much despise.
CW
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The real villains of the piece
Willie Walsh
Chief Executive
Willie Out as accepted blame and is sitting ontop of the piling steaming heap he calls his leadership team. Oh for those that think WW has turned things round finacially without hurting the airline. It doesn't take a genius or business guru to issue the following instruction, 'cut your management by 1/3'. What happens then is the best 1/3 leave with a nice handshake and find a better job leaving the hubris lot behind, all steam and no go.
Keith Williams
Chief Financial Officer
Penny pinching bean counter - Has got to go. Only took over after the last financial bod John Rishton had his coller felt by the US Feds...a little bit of price fixing. Well come on, you need somebody to do the adding up, I mean poor Martin George only has eight fingers and two of them were always up his ass.
Robert Boyle
Commercial Director
Recent BA commercials are ok, lets keep him. We like the cloudy dolphin thing
Paul Coby
Chief Information Officer
Chief no F'in Information officer, got to go!
Garry Copeland
Director of Engineering
Copeland, the engineering problems are still yet to surface, but they are there. See you Gary you gotta go. Cehck out www.airmech.co.uk for details
Gareth Kirkwood aka Gareth Berkwood the BA runner
Director of Operations
Keep him for novelty value, he is without doubt the funniest thing I have seen for sometime. A quick march that could come straight from Monty Python
David Noyes
Director of Customer Services
What customer service? irrespective of Bollock thursday he has to go. Ba customers are leaving in droves.
Tony McCarthy
Director People & Organisational Effectiveness
to$$er from RoyalMail, they didn;t want him, nor do we, letters! I mean laters Tony. Typical Union buster type, probably brought in specially to deal with our pilots. He hasn;t a hope in hell so may as well depart gracefully.
Roger Maynard
Director of Investments & Alliances
Keep him, he may be valuable in coming months
Robert Webb QCGeneral Counsel
Shrewd man, keep him onside. Very funny when drunk.......but I didn't say that, heard it 3rd hand or he may sue me!
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What unplanned expenses? He said he is travelling in three days time.
I wasn't aware that BA were liable to pay compensation to people that haven't even travelled!!
I wasn't aware that BA were liable to pay compensation to people that haven't even travelled!!
I don't want to wait and worry about my whole trip falling around my ears, so I've now booked onto BMI while I can still get a seat. Definitely an unplanned expense, but no chance of getting that from BA.
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My advice to people that HAVE to get to somewhere near to LHR....
Take a flight to STN and use the National Express bus to LHR.
Been there, done that.
And yes, you will have to wheel your own suitcase to the bus. But at least you will have your suitcase....
And no, I don't have any NatExpress shares. More's the pity.
CJ
Take a flight to STN and use the National Express bus to LHR.
Been there, done that.
And yes, you will have to wheel your own suitcase to the bus. But at least you will have your suitcase....
And no, I don't have any NatExpress shares. More's the pity.
CJ
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Pasoundman
keep your pants on for god sake. I was mearly using the term staff as in 'employees of a company' whether management or Mrs Miggins the cleaner. I don't think for one minute that those decisions were taken by the lower pay grades. Jeeez!
keep your pants on for god sake. I was mearly using the term staff as in 'employees of a company' whether management or Mrs Miggins the cleaner. I don't think for one minute that those decisions were taken by the lower pay grades. Jeeez!
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BA dirty tricks against Branson
Errrrrr, how many years ago? Not that many.
Errrrrr, how many years ago? Not that many.
BA did not present the results of their investigations to a court.
I spent a months investigating what went on.
A fair amount of rubbish was printed.
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I flew out of T4 to Zurich on Wednesday, no probs, all on time and as advertised, and was quite looking forward to returning to the super duper T5.
On Thursady at Zurich, I found my BA return flight was 40 minutes late in arriving at Kloten, hence departing for London, but the arrival at LHR seemed OK until we found we had no stand due to another flight departing late, probably because of the baggage fiasco. We waited nearly an hour as we could not get a set of steps. Looking out at the guy sitting in the cab of the motorised steps, it was clear he had no idea what he was doing and had never driven one before. He turned on the indicators, then the lights and by a process of elimination moved the vehicle to the aircraft.
In the terminal it was the same, no one with a clue as to what to do and very few people who spoke English. The toilets didn't work, nor did the lifts. Trying to get to the 4th floor of the car park, it was necessary to take the stairs due to overcrowding of the single lift which was working.
If I can summarise, everything I experienced was due to untrained staff and incompetent project management. BA take a bow.
C&B
On Thursady at Zurich, I found my BA return flight was 40 minutes late in arriving at Kloten, hence departing for London, but the arrival at LHR seemed OK until we found we had no stand due to another flight departing late, probably because of the baggage fiasco. We waited nearly an hour as we could not get a set of steps. Looking out at the guy sitting in the cab of the motorised steps, it was clear he had no idea what he was doing and had never driven one before. He turned on the indicators, then the lights and by a process of elimination moved the vehicle to the aircraft.
In the terminal it was the same, no one with a clue as to what to do and very few people who spoke English. The toilets didn't work, nor did the lifts. Trying to get to the 4th floor of the car park, it was necessary to take the stairs due to overcrowding of the single lift which was working.
If I can summarise, everything I experienced was due to untrained staff and incompetent project management. BA take a bow.
C&B
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Mmmm, Tony McCarthy. When he arrived in January he said he didn't really know what the pilots were upset about. One would have thought that 'Director People' would know why one of the companys essential workforces were ballotting for a strike! He then made all his staff re-apply for their own positions, with the result that when he was supposed to be in conciliation talks with ACAS he was spending his breaks interviewing his own staff for their own jobs, including, wait for it, it's worth it, the HR individual responsible for dealing with the pilots! Quality guy!
Paxing All Over The World
Pinkman
A very pertinent question and I think that, overall: This is not an isolated event. It is not isolated because, a huge multi-national does not produce a foul up like this just out of the blue.
For the kind of monumental SABU (Self Adjusting B@lls Up, because it automatically adjusts itself to keep getting worse) of T5 happens because the company has fundamental managerial problems. If one department fouled up, then it would not have happened, if two failed - it could have been salvaged but everything went wrong and then - the spokesman was running away and the BBC is banned from entering. That shows a top to bottom failure of management to plan, execute and recover from problems.
A simple example, the stories coming out that Ts 1-2-3 were running smoothly with BA out of the way? All those stories we have had in here over the years about T4 being a shambles and the management saying it will be better at T5? Except that ... it's the same managers.
I feel desperately sorry for all the front line staff. Be they ground, cabin or flight, how ghastly to be doing your job so well and knowing that it was all for nothing.
... does this also mean that I should be concerned about things like maintenance and reliability, training, safety reporting, the decisions they made over their long-term fleet replacement, etc? Or is this just an isolated event?
For the kind of monumental SABU (Self Adjusting B@lls Up, because it automatically adjusts itself to keep getting worse) of T5 happens because the company has fundamental managerial problems. If one department fouled up, then it would not have happened, if two failed - it could have been salvaged but everything went wrong and then - the spokesman was running away and the BBC is banned from entering. That shows a top to bottom failure of management to plan, execute and recover from problems.
A simple example, the stories coming out that Ts 1-2-3 were running smoothly with BA out of the way? All those stories we have had in here over the years about T4 being a shambles and the management saying it will be better at T5? Except that ... it's the same managers.
I feel desperately sorry for all the front line staff. Be they ground, cabin or flight, how ghastly to be doing your job so well and knowing that it was all for nothing.
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I am someone who is prepared to accept that sometimes things don't go smoothly and even in the best run airports & airlines problems occur. What makes a good airline is how they respond to such situations. What I can't accept is when everyone tries to pass the buck and no-one takes responsibility and not even an apology is made to those who are affected. I was due to fly Club Europe to Vienna today with BA from T5. Yesterday I was able to check in online with no problems for both outward and return sectors (I was coming back same day). I went online yesterday evening to check my booking was still ok and the flights were shown as operating. However I then looked at the separate Flight Status section of the BA website - and my outward flight was shown as cancelled. I phoned the BA number given (I was very surprised to get through quite quickly) and it was confirmed that the flight was non-op. The BA person on the line was quick to recount all the problems they were having with T5 but not a word of apology was issued. No alternative flights could be offered due to the short notice although I was advised that as I was a premium passenger I could turn up at T5 this morning and they could see what they could do!! This was unacceptable and I had to cancel my trip which was an important one for me, which I booked some 2 months ago. If it wasn't for me double checking I would have had a fruitless and no doubt frustrating visit to T5 today. If they had contacted me earlier yesterday, I would have had the opportunity to salvage the trip by rebooking alternative flights on Austrian. Knowing that the problems were ongoing why didn't BA plan to give 24 hours notice of cancelled flights or why indeed do they not just return a proportion of flights to T1 until the T5 debacle is sorted out. It will take a lot to convince me to fly BA again and I reckon they will lose many premium passengers for good through their handling of this whole affair.
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Tigs2
keep your pants on for god sake. I was mearly using the term staff as in 'employees of a company' whether management or Mrs Miggins the cleaner.
keep your pants on for god sake. I was mearly using the term staff as in 'employees of a company' whether management or Mrs Miggins the cleaner.
This time however I reckon they've bitten off more than they can chew. With 450 extra staff T5's STILL not working properly. How many extra staff required when T4 moves ?
Or .... how long before a retreat back to T1 ?
Maybe they can plan an opening that actually works second time round ? Hopefully without WW and his circus of drongos.
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Pasoundman
Well as I don't work at BA the difference between Staff and Management is not as clear as day! All employees in a company are staff, some of whom occupy management positions.
Well as I don't work at BA the difference between Staff and Management is not as clear as day! All employees in a company are staff, some of whom occupy management positions.