Chaos at Terminal 5
Join Date: Jan 2005
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... in excess of 20000 items of mishandled baggage ....
Anybody wants to take bets on what percentage of that will be reunited with their owners... unscathed... ??
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Baggage system award
I was at a conference in the Netherlands a couple of weeks ago, which finished with awards. The winner was for the installation of the T5 baggage system. As usual award = kiss of death!
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Anything new with the logistics of a large international airport is going to have problems that will take at least a couple weeks to work out all the kinks. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
I'm just SLF, but in three days' time I'm due to fly BA to DME. With an onward connection the following morning to Kazakhstan. There are only two flights a week to where I'm going. I was actually excited when I found out I'd be going through T5. Fool.
What the hell do I do now? I can't risk my bag being lost or delayed, because there's no way for it to reach me if it is. So that means hand baggage only. For ten days, and with a pile of camera gear to fit in as well. But my onward flight out of Russia has a 5kg limit on hand baggage....So at best I'll have to repack in Moscow.
How could anyone possibly get T5 into such a shambles? Haven't they heard of testing and training?? Planning for contingencies?
At the moment, BA are proudly announcing that all passengers can now check in with both cabin and hold baggage, but are conspicuously silent on whether the hold baggage stands the remotest chance of getting onto the same flight as the passenger. Wow!
I am sick to the back teeth of British Airways and British airports. And what does Willy bl**dy Wonka say on the telly? "Not our finest hour", indeed. What about "It's a complete cock-up, I resign because I couldn't run a whelk stall"....? I don't care how big and complex the project was. You're running a big and complex organisation. Deal with it. B*ggered up is still b*ggered up. Weren't they expecting passengers to arrive with luggage?? What happened to simple old-fashioned ideas like a phased start-up? Oh, no, transfer everybody and everything all in one fell swoop. Chuck the chips up in the air, and who cares where they fall, it won't affect our bonuses, anyway...
There's absolutely nothing that can be done by BA or BAA to recover the situation for this passenger, because there's insufficient time to establish a track record and recover trust. So what is a unique trip for me is badly impaired already, and has the cloud of a cancellation hanging over it.
BA have now sunk so low that I am seriously considering rebooking onto a Russian airline as a more reliable option. Only a few years ago, I would never have credited that that thought could ever have entered my head. Only the cost is deterring me.
If I ever, ever in my life show even the slightest inclination to book a British Airways flight again, I'm telling my wife to have me sectioned for my own protection.
I'm sorry for those of you who work hard and competently for the company, but there is no room for a "these are only teething problems" attitude in this sort of project. No problems to passengers is the minimum acceptable performance. Anything less is a complete failure.
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Just went throught this thread - well, the alternative was doing the chores....no doubt I'll pay for it later!
OK, there's little argument with the view that the project management on the part of BA and BAA was poor and that the PR from both organisations was abysmal. On the former point, it's unclear who was responsible for co-ordinating the operation and transtion into service - the only message that I really got from BA management was that the staff let them down, and, of course, BAA were nowhere to be seen. I would have expected BA to have brought in a world class project manager for this one - I'm presuming they didn't because surely they'd point the finger at him/her!
On the PR point, the big lesson that I would take from the whole debacle would be don't sing your own praises until you've something to sing about. The PR hype that has gone on around T5 is such that it would have to go perfectly in order not to be a laughing stock (or at least raise a few smiles). How much better would this appeared if, in the run up, BA had been saying 'It's a big change to our operations, we've done everything we can to make sure it goes smoothly for our customers and staff but the real test comes on O day, and we'll have plenty of staff on hand in the first few days to make sure that any problems are sorted out as quickly as possible.' (and made sure that they did all that) and then, when everything wen't well, gave themselves (i.e. management), staff a pat on the back at the same time as thanking any pax who were inconvenienced for their patience. Mind you, I don't think even that would have worked given the reality!
One last point that I notice cropped up earlier - but then seemed to sink without trace - but the ATC at Heathrow and in the London area has undergone some significant changes in the last few years. Arguably these changes were are not complex from a logistical perspective but were potentially hugely disruptive and had far more safety implications. I wasn't very close to the changes, but they seemed to go remarkably smoothly - I'm guessing this was as a result of good project planning and, for the safety aspects, proper regulation. I'm no great fan of NATS, the ATC operator, and the way that it works in many respects (as many of my posts will show) but credit where credit is due - there could have been similar headlines and UK airspace closed if the BA approach had been taken. It doesn't have to be the BA/BAA way!
OK, there's little argument with the view that the project management on the part of BA and BAA was poor and that the PR from both organisations was abysmal. On the former point, it's unclear who was responsible for co-ordinating the operation and transtion into service - the only message that I really got from BA management was that the staff let them down, and, of course, BAA were nowhere to be seen. I would have expected BA to have brought in a world class project manager for this one - I'm presuming they didn't because surely they'd point the finger at him/her!
On the PR point, the big lesson that I would take from the whole debacle would be don't sing your own praises until you've something to sing about. The PR hype that has gone on around T5 is such that it would have to go perfectly in order not to be a laughing stock (or at least raise a few smiles). How much better would this appeared if, in the run up, BA had been saying 'It's a big change to our operations, we've done everything we can to make sure it goes smoothly for our customers and staff but the real test comes on O day, and we'll have plenty of staff on hand in the first few days to make sure that any problems are sorted out as quickly as possible.' (and made sure that they did all that) and then, when everything wen't well, gave themselves (i.e. management), staff a pat on the back at the same time as thanking any pax who were inconvenienced for their patience. Mind you, I don't think even that would have worked given the reality!
One last point that I notice cropped up earlier - but then seemed to sink without trace - but the ATC at Heathrow and in the London area has undergone some significant changes in the last few years. Arguably these changes were are not complex from a logistical perspective but were potentially hugely disruptive and had far more safety implications. I wasn't very close to the changes, but they seemed to go remarkably smoothly - I'm guessing this was as a result of good project planning and, for the safety aspects, proper regulation. I'm no great fan of NATS, the ATC operator, and the way that it works in many respects (as many of my posts will show) but credit where credit is due - there could have been similar headlines and UK airspace closed if the BA approach had been taken. It doesn't have to be the BA/BAA way!
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The multi coloured tailfins
The multi coloured tailfins
There must be something wrong with me. Whilst there's no doubt that the flag looks good, I rather liked some of the World designs. And the rest of the aircraft maintained the brand - something that, today, some people in BA might wish could fade away!
There must be something wrong with me. Whilst there's no doubt that the flag looks good, I rather liked some of the World designs. And the rest of the aircraft maintained the brand - something that, today, some people in BA might wish could fade away!
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I remember a couple of days when NATS computers went down leading to huge delays and massive flow restrictons in UK airspace. Their boffins didn't get it entirely right!
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I have just completed a round trip to Newcastle from T5. I am not sure the difficulties I face are just T5 related because in the last 6 trips they have all fallen short of a decent service.
Yesterday we were late boarding and once everyone was on board the Captain stood at the front and tried to put together an apology. Overally 1 hour late taking but some of that was due to a weather ristriction.
He described the apology on television as inadequate and insincere. He said there was 4 containers of luggage and that some passengers would not be getting some luggage.
On arrival, in Newcastle, I received an email telling me my return flight for today had been cancelled.
Thankfully I managed to rebook to a later flight.
On arrival back at T5 we ended up on a bussing stand, but with no steps. Cannot have everything I suppose but half an hour lat ended up as 45 minutes late.
However once on the bus it was only 10 minutes before I was in my car on the way out of the car park.
Anyway, I will be giving my secretary a very simple instruction, ABBA.
Nothing to do with music, simply Anything But BA.
Yesterday we were late boarding and once everyone was on board the Captain stood at the front and tried to put together an apology. Overally 1 hour late taking but some of that was due to a weather ristriction.
He described the apology on television as inadequate and insincere. He said there was 4 containers of luggage and that some passengers would not be getting some luggage.
On arrival, in Newcastle, I received an email telling me my return flight for today had been cancelled.
Thankfully I managed to rebook to a later flight.
On arrival back at T5 we ended up on a bussing stand, but with no steps. Cannot have everything I suppose but half an hour lat ended up as 45 minutes late.
However once on the bus it was only 10 minutes before I was in my car on the way out of the car park.
Anyway, I will be giving my secretary a very simple instruction, ABBA.
Nothing to do with music, simply Anything But BA.
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Both Willy and Bob will survive. I lived in Africa too long to think it will be any different. And as we are now apparently a Banana kingdom why should it be any different here? All we need is a bit of green in the Union Jack, a few more power failures and we're good to go.
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I hope a LOT of people will read DespairingTraveller's post (#497 at the moment).
THAT is the reality.
People doing a professional job...
Relying on air travel from A to B.
And finding themselves let down by a totally incompetent operation.
All pi$$ and wind.
Who is going to reimburse him for all his unplanned expenses? And the business he may have lost?
And some of his equipment, which is probably being pilfered at T5 as we speak?
THAT is the reality.
People doing a professional job...
Relying on air travel from A to B.
And finding themselves let down by a totally incompetent operation.
All pi$$ and wind.
Who is going to reimburse him for all his unplanned expenses? And the business he may have lost?
And some of his equipment, which is probably being pilfered at T5 as we speak?
Maybe the time has come. The CAA should pull BA's AOC for a while, just long enough to concentrate minds. It could be re-instated the minute the final lost bag is returned to its owner. Meanwhile, the few senior managers left might spend a little time listening to their staff in order to fix T5 ready for the return to service.
The CAA monitors the financial performance and position of most other operators, and may in certain circumstances take action to revoke an Operating Licence. Its objective in doing so is primarily to secure a better outcome for the travelling public, and revocation will in many cases not have this effect: revoking a licence will turn a potential failure into an actual failure and may lead to losses on the part of ticket holders and disruption to passengers’ travel plans. However, revocation or suspension may still achieve a benefit if it minimises the effects of an inevitable failure.....
TheCAA's policy clearly uggests that revocation is the last resort but since we have "an inevitable failure" in progress a few days without mangement being able to tinker with the trainset might just be in the best interests of the passengers.
The CAA monitors the financial performance and position of most other operators, and may in certain circumstances take action to revoke an Operating Licence. Its objective in doing so is primarily to secure a better outcome for the travelling public, and revocation will in many cases not have this effect: revoking a licence will turn a potential failure into an actual failure and may lead to losses on the part of ticket holders and disruption to passengers’ travel plans. However, revocation or suspension may still achieve a benefit if it minimises the effects of an inevitable failure.....
TheCAA's policy clearly uggests that revocation is the last resort but since we have "an inevitable failure" in progress a few days without mangement being able to tinker with the trainset might just be in the best interests of the passengers.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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There are named persons on the AOC to ensure that competent people are in charge. They could always look at the evidence and take a view.
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Christiann,
What unplanned expenses? He said he is travelling in three days time.
I wasn't aware that BA were liable to pay compensation to people that haven't even travelled!!
What unplanned expenses? He said he is travelling in three days time.
I wasn't aware that BA were liable to pay compensation to people that haven't even travelled!!
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I'm sure the press are just dying to hear your story, so I'll gazunder you by telling them they had to offload over a hundred disruptive passengers which caused the delay. So sorry, no T5 angle there either as LOS operates from T5.
Gazunder? You
! They off loaded 130 plus, off which maybe 25 were disruptive, two arrests. No T5 angle - duuuuh - "angle" was BA managment; BA mangment lies, but the story has been sold.
BA crew going out - very professional. Despite their earlier ordeal.
Gazunder? You
! They off loaded 130 plus, off which maybe 25 were disruptive, two arrests. No T5 angle - duuuuh - "angle" was BA managment; BA mangment lies, but the story has been sold.BA crew going out - very professional. Despite their earlier ordeal.
Just sugesting it since it would probably never occur to BA management that this could actually happen to them.
Maybe a 24 hour suspension to allow them to concentate on reuniting the 15,000 or so passengers with their bags might be in the best interests of the travelling public. A few hours listening to the T5 terminal staff and allowing them some say in how to fix things might be a good idea too.
Maybe a 24 hour suspension to allow them to concentate on reuniting the 15,000 or so passengers with their bags might be in the best interests of the travelling public. A few hours listening to the T5 terminal staff and allowing them some say in how to fix things might be a good idea too.
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Gate gourmet fiasco
Hardly BA's fault if a supplier goes on strike and then the TGWU organise an illegal walk out (for which the ringleaders were sacked)
Hardly BA's fault if a supplier goes on strike and then the TGWU organise an illegal walk out (for which the ringleaders were sacked)
(1) contracted with a dodgy outfit in the first place
(2) didn't have a Plan B for when the dodgy outfit went titsup.
Perfectly reasonable to do business with a cheap subcontractor, but the clever trick and cunning plan is to do a risk analysis and have something in place ready for when the risk comes true. Yes that costs, but you pay for it out of the money you've saved by contracting with a cheapo outfit in the first place.
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T5 Project managers
T5 Project mis - management - The BAWay
Each directorate within BA appointed their own individual from within (jobs for the boy's or in Engineering's case girls)
These individuals were then titled 'Directorate name' Manager Terminal 5
i.e. Engineering Manager Terminal 5
These individuals most without any real managerial experiance were let loose with planning training etc. If you take a look at the engineering board for BA on www.airmech.co.uk you can find man examples of how this training, familiarisation went. For most it involved a drive around the outside of the building in a coach....
What a joke -
Each directorate within BA appointed their own individual from within (jobs for the boy's or in Engineering's case girls)
These individuals were then titled 'Directorate name' Manager Terminal 5
i.e. Engineering Manager Terminal 5
These individuals most without any real managerial experiance were let loose with planning training etc. If you take a look at the engineering board for BA on www.airmech.co.uk you can find man examples of how this training, familiarisation went. For most it involved a drive around the outside of the building in a coach....
What a joke -
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Re: The baggage mountain at T5. Latest rumour is that it's become so unmanagable that it's become cheaper to 'lose' the bags and pay minimum compensation rather than re-unite pax/bags. This apparently happened last summer where bags were 'flown' to various European points for 'disposal'. 
I'm due to operate tomorrow, I'm rather dreading it actually...
I'm due to operate tomorrow, I'm rather dreading it actually...