Chaos at Terminal 5
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BA shares fall on Goldman Sachs downgrade
Still no call for the Wee Willie to pudh off....yet....
link to full city article here
Still no call for the Wee Willie to pudh off....yet....
link to full city article here
How many posts have you put up in the last few days??
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Class system?.....get real
Well Sunfish I profoundly disagree with your remarks. What on earth has the “class system” really got to do with the shambles T5?
The failure(s) can be put down to a lack of leadership, from the top to the bottom and probably at several tiers in between.
So please, spare us the flannel and class system claptrap. Poor leadership and the inability of some to take responsibility for their mistakes, omissions and lack of foresight led to this fiasco.
2infinity
The failure(s) can be put down to a lack of leadership, from the top to the bottom and probably at several tiers in between.
So please, spare us the flannel and class system claptrap. Poor leadership and the inability of some to take responsibility for their mistakes, omissions and lack of foresight led to this fiasco.
2infinity
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Chips away
Fargoo - I wouldn't be on this site if it wasn;t so desperate at BA. Like I stated in an earlier reply to a similar spleen vent, I only arrived at PPRUNE to voice my support for my pilot colleagues at BA. THat was one post, 4 weeks ago. No spleen venting, no obsessive committment to posting. Then what happened next really got my goat.....
I think my enthusiasm to state what is going on in the real world outside of waterworld, where you may possibly reside on a 9-5 basis, should be commended not castigated with childish remarks.
I am/was passionate about BA, the company I have worked for in the region of 2/3 of my life. I deplore what has been done to such an exceptional organisation I joined. The persons who are accountable should resign immediately. I don;t think that it will help at any rate as I believe the descent rate has been too steep at BA and the effect is TERMINAL.
One last thing, that'd be the 59th post since Thursday, not a huge amount in relation to a story that has headline news all around the world... Fargoo - feel free to get posting, it is what this is all about..free speech.
Also I didn't know my GP was qualified to remove my BA chip from my ass, I thought this could only be conducted by my line manger. I'll get right along at the next available opportunity, I think that'll see me out till this terminal fiasco dies a natural death. Oh his first avail appointment is Mid May.
I think my enthusiasm to state what is going on in the real world outside of waterworld, where you may possibly reside on a 9-5 basis, should be commended not castigated with childish remarks.
I am/was passionate about BA, the company I have worked for in the region of 2/3 of my life. I deplore what has been done to such an exceptional organisation I joined. The persons who are accountable should resign immediately. I don;t think that it will help at any rate as I believe the descent rate has been too steep at BA and the effect is TERMINAL.
One last thing, that'd be the 59th post since Thursday, not a huge amount in relation to a story that has headline news all around the world... Fargoo - feel free to get posting, it is what this is all about..free speech.
Also I didn't know my GP was qualified to remove my BA chip from my ass, I thought this could only be conducted by my line manger. I'll get right along at the next available opportunity, I think that'll see me out till this terminal fiasco dies a natural death. Oh his first avail appointment is Mid May.
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Sensitive souls
You have to feel sorry for them, BA Press dept has gone all sensitive, check this quote from the Press association website;
'On Sunday night BA would make no public pledge about the resumption of full service. A spokesman said: "No. You would just use that as a stick to beat us with if it didn't happen."
The earlier post about Hubris attracting Nemesis which delivers judgement (incidently which was moderated (deleted))
Now those at the top know how it feels to be down trodden and beaten by those above them in the chain.
'On Sunday night BA would make no public pledge about the resumption of full service. A spokesman said: "No. You would just use that as a stick to beat us with if it didn't happen."
The earlier post about Hubris attracting Nemesis which delivers judgement (incidently which was moderated (deleted))
Now those at the top know how it feels to be down trodden and beaten by those above them in the chain.
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Miss Eweida and the cross saga
Now has anyone considered that this situation brought on by the arrogance of BA management, may have something to do with the banning of the Christian cross?
Please consider the timing, that the BA disaster follows immediately after Easter Sunday, the origin of the cross as a symbol of the suffering of the Son of God for the sins of humanity. The BA Disaster may well have higher origins.
Indeed the following Daily Mail quote shows the arrogant WW in all his glory when asked if he had any regrets over the handling of the Eweida situation;
Willie Walsh issued a defiant message in the face of a torrent of criticism from Archbishops and Cabinet Ministers over its ban on staff wearing the cross. The head of British Airways last night said he had "no regrets" over his handling of the Christian cross row.
He might be regretting it now, indeed as the volunteers dry up (cause they'll want the time off in lieu, TOIL as we call it at BA) and the chaos continues into the week, Willie Walsh will be needing all the help he can muster. Oh, if your reading Willie you might like to reverse the Christian Cross wearing decision.
Please consider the timing, that the BA disaster follows immediately after Easter Sunday, the origin of the cross as a symbol of the suffering of the Son of God for the sins of humanity. The BA Disaster may well have higher origins.
Indeed the following Daily Mail quote shows the arrogant WW in all his glory when asked if he had any regrets over the handling of the Eweida situation;
Willie Walsh issued a defiant message in the face of a torrent of criticism from Archbishops and Cabinet Ministers over its ban on staff wearing the cross. The head of British Airways last night said he had "no regrets" over his handling of the Christian cross row.
He might be regretting it now, indeed as the volunteers dry up (cause they'll want the time off in lieu, TOIL as we call it at BA) and the chaos continues into the week, Willie Walsh will be needing all the help he can muster. Oh, if your reading Willie you might like to reverse the Christian Cross wearing decision.
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No its ghosts
A ghost wearing a bowler hat was allegedly seen in the area during the 1980s, asking about the whereabouts of his briefcase. Could this have contained the contingency plans?
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Fundamentalism
How on earth is stating that the co-incidence between British Airways lurch toward bankruptcy has indeed occurred after the ridiculous debacle over BA banning the cross, this is not fundamentalism. I would suggest if I were insome way making an effort to convert you to any particular persuasion or waging a war on the grounds of religion, that may be fundamentalist.
I was merely highlighting the uncomfortable truth.
Oh another worrying esculation;
'BA admitted that air passengers face a summer of disruption' Dailymail
It's getting worser!!! (as my 8 yr old might say)
I was merely highlighting the uncomfortable truth.
Oh another worrying esculation;
'BA admitted that air passengers face a summer of disruption' Dailymail
It's getting worser!!! (as my 8 yr old might say)
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BAengineering
My friend, I don't know who you are but so far your input to this important thread has, in the main, been good with the possible exception of the Holocaust comparisons.
References to staff wearing personal jewellery at BA have no place here.
References to staff wearing personal jewellery at BA have no place here.
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Willie shouldn't be wearing a cross, he shouldbe on one.
Back to the all souls theme for a minute Chaps!
Wasn't it the previous Archbish of York who said
that he didn't believe everything in the Bible?
The following night the Cathedral was struck by
lightning and part of it went up in flames.
A salutory lesson to ALL.
Sorry, it should read "Minster", not Cathedral.
The "Yorkies" just couldn't spell it correctly.
Last edited by Storminnorm; 31st Mar 2008 at 13:07.
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Doughnuts
I think the papers are getting it all mixed up, take for example the BA party they had whilst Peri Oaks the **** processing plant (T5 is built on the grounds of an old sewage plant) was making a comeback. The report below taken from the dailymail
There was also fury that BA bosses held a back-slapping party at their Heathrow headquarters - complete with a string quartet and doughnuts - as chaos reigned at Terminal 5.
The report given to the paper was 'The 'Doughnuts' are having a party with a string quartet, whilst chaos reigns at Terminal 5'
See how they mix **** up, that's just poor journalism...
There was also fury that BA bosses held a back-slapping party at their Heathrow headquarters - complete with a string quartet and doughnuts - as chaos reigned at Terminal 5.
The report given to the paper was 'The 'Doughnuts' are having a party with a string quartet, whilst chaos reigns at Terminal 5'
See how they mix **** up, that's just poor journalism...
Last edited by BAengineering; 31st Mar 2008 at 13:03.
Paxing All Over The World
As I read the level headed info from BAengineering, his reference to the 'cross' affair was an example of how BA lost staff confidence and support. They could have done it differently and reached the same result
hiedelberg
I doubt it. If the problems had last two days, then I would have said yes but a project that is wrong for five days (a/c positioning not withstanding) then it will take proportionately longer to fix. The move from T4 will be delayed and T1 will be have to carry some of the load.
The reference to social class by Sunfish is, I suggest out of date. I would agree that 20 years ago it was that situation - but not now. What I see in the companies I have been involved with across the last 20 years (and see on the news and current affairs programmes) is that the people running the companies are now often from lower middle class and and working class backgrounds. They have worked they way up by education and all the usual means. Many have started their own outfits.
The social classes in the UK have very different strata to 25 and 50 years ago. Not gone (as every society has a class structure) but different.
hiedelberg
In a couple of weeks time everyone will move on to the next problem area with T5 working as it should.
The reference to social class by Sunfish is, I suggest out of date. I would agree that 20 years ago it was that situation - but not now. What I see in the companies I have been involved with across the last 20 years (and see on the news and current affairs programmes) is that the people running the companies are now often from lower middle class and and working class backgrounds. They have worked they way up by education and all the usual means. Many have started their own outfits.
The social classes in the UK have very different strata to 25 and 50 years ago. Not gone (as every society has a class structure) but different.
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I'm not in the least bit surprised at all the chaos at T5 its inevitable you will get teething problems with any large project....
It has been reported that management were told during the development process of the baggage handling system, that certain things wouldnt work...and these observations were ignored.....so the chickens have come home to roost.
It appears yet another British "Management" cockup where management arent interested in being told the stark truth, but what they want to hear and bugger the consequences....
I expect those at fault will get a golden handshake of half a million quid and will end up "running" rail track or somesuch....
At least the government werent involved as they normally are in suck f**k ups.
I avoid Heathrow like the plague whenever I have to fly anywhere. Its a good representation to foreigners visiting as to the taste of things they can expect in this poorly run island of ours...
It has been reported that management were told during the development process of the baggage handling system, that certain things wouldnt work...and these observations were ignored.....so the chickens have come home to roost.
It appears yet another British "Management" cockup where management arent interested in being told the stark truth, but what they want to hear and bugger the consequences....
I expect those at fault will get a golden handshake of half a million quid and will end up "running" rail track or somesuch....
At least the government werent involved as they normally are in suck f**k ups.
I avoid Heathrow like the plague whenever I have to fly anywhere. Its a good representation to foreigners visiting as to the taste of things they can expect in this poorly run island of ours...
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I have just heard on BBC Radio 5 Live that the press have been banned from T5.
The presenter said :
"The BBC are banned from Zimbabwe and now we are banned from Terminal 5".
The presenter said :
"The BBC are banned from Zimbabwe and now we are banned from Terminal 5".
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I don't like MBAs as a group, for the simple reason that many people who pursue MBAs are not passionate about anything other than making money. To them, MBAs allow them to work in "Business" where they get "Rich" and "Powerful", and one Business is as good as another. To other people in management, the new kid with no experience and an MBA knows nothing about managing, and yet pretends to know everything.
That's the stereotype. And there's probably something in it that makes MBAs so disliked in the business world: some of them just don't care, it would seem. Heck, in the US, the country's economy has proudly flourished under its first MBA president.
But separate the degree and the person. There are plenty of smart people who get MBAs, and some of those have a passion for something other than abstract administration.
In any case, for this screw-up, the MBA is a red herring. In fact, Terminal 5 will be studied and taught in the business schools of the world for some time to come. It is a spectacular, textbook example of how to screw things up on the management end. To judge from the statements here, the people involved who were convinced T5 would actually be a huge success consisted entirely and exclusively of senior management.
They had plenty of warning. Automated baggage systems have historically caused huge problems. BA themselves enjoyed a foretaste of that a few months ago (and I seem to recall some posters saying that T5 would be *much* better. Bigger isn't always better, of course). I can't speak for HK, but my experience with Copenhagen (your bags will arrive some time within 2 hours of landing) and Amsterdam (your bags will be forwarded to your destination sometime within the week) baggage systems has not been one of amazing speed and efficiency.
But those other launches just had baggage problems. This is multiple catastrophic system failure. It's like a transatlantic flight suffering an uncontained engine fire, taped-over pitot tubes all lavatories unserviceable, and all this while taxing out, and still electing to take off.
You can blame the BAA if you like, and I'm sure they're worthy. But from a management perspective, it's not the BAA that fails on its contract with the passengers. And it sure isn't the BAA that plainly violates (albeit now retracted) its EU-mandated obligations of carriage. And banning the press from T5 is sheer genius: we may all assume the worst. If you're not going to allow the press in, why the Hell are still you allowing the public there?
BA is a company whose entire purpose is to develop and maintain complex systems of personnel and technology, where the costs of failure are extremely high in terms of human and economic cost, as well as negative publicity. When a publicly-traded company fails so completely as this, the management has no choice but to fall on its sword. For I cannot see the shareholders standing for this idiocy much longer.
That's the stereotype. And there's probably something in it that makes MBAs so disliked in the business world: some of them just don't care, it would seem. Heck, in the US, the country's economy has proudly flourished under its first MBA president.
But separate the degree and the person. There are plenty of smart people who get MBAs, and some of those have a passion for something other than abstract administration.
In any case, for this screw-up, the MBA is a red herring. In fact, Terminal 5 will be studied and taught in the business schools of the world for some time to come. It is a spectacular, textbook example of how to screw things up on the management end. To judge from the statements here, the people involved who were convinced T5 would actually be a huge success consisted entirely and exclusively of senior management.
They had plenty of warning. Automated baggage systems have historically caused huge problems. BA themselves enjoyed a foretaste of that a few months ago (and I seem to recall some posters saying that T5 would be *much* better. Bigger isn't always better, of course). I can't speak for HK, but my experience with Copenhagen (your bags will arrive some time within 2 hours of landing) and Amsterdam (your bags will be forwarded to your destination sometime within the week) baggage systems has not been one of amazing speed and efficiency.
But those other launches just had baggage problems. This is multiple catastrophic system failure. It's like a transatlantic flight suffering an uncontained engine fire, taped-over pitot tubes all lavatories unserviceable, and all this while taxing out, and still electing to take off.
You can blame the BAA if you like, and I'm sure they're worthy. But from a management perspective, it's not the BAA that fails on its contract with the passengers. And it sure isn't the BAA that plainly violates (albeit now retracted) its EU-mandated obligations of carriage. And banning the press from T5 is sheer genius: we may all assume the worst. If you're not going to allow the press in, why the Hell are still you allowing the public there?
BA is a company whose entire purpose is to develop and maintain complex systems of personnel and technology, where the costs of failure are extremely high in terms of human and economic cost, as well as negative publicity. When a publicly-traded company fails so completely as this, the management has no choice but to fall on its sword. For I cannot see the shareholders standing for this idiocy much longer.
N4790P
coldair,
Really!!!
have just heard on BBC Radio 5 Live that the press have been banned from T5.
The presenter said :
"The BBC are banned from Zimbabwe and now we are banned from Terminal 5".
The presenter said :
"The BBC are banned from Zimbabwe and now we are banned from Terminal 5".
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I think my enthusiasm to state what is going on in the real world outside of waterworld, where you may possibly reside on a 9-5 basis, should be commended not castigated with childish remarks.
I'm closer to you than you think but fortunately realise that BA payes my wages not the BBC. If they want to go all out on a lost baggage/cancelled flight bonanza fine but i'm not about to join in biting the hand that feeds me.
If you really want to vent your spleen why not pop onto the discussion forum on the Engineering Intranet. Lack of balls would prevent that i'd guess.
Fargoo
Edit - P.S. This is aimed at the forum user BAengineering who chose a username that implies he speaks for all of us.
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MBA
MBA = Mindless Bl**dy Assholes. Sorry about that,
Couldn't resist it!
As an aside Fargoo, I'm absolutely sure that BAengineering
IS totally correct in his concerns about the situation.
He's probably harbouring thoughts that this situation
COULD have an effect on not only his job, but also on
the jobs of many at BA in the long term.
Couldn't resist it!
As an aside Fargoo, I'm absolutely sure that BAengineering
IS totally correct in his concerns about the situation.
He's probably harbouring thoughts that this situation
COULD have an effect on not only his job, but also on
the jobs of many at BA in the long term.
Last edited by Storminnorm; 31st Mar 2008 at 14:02.
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And so the Meltdown continues with 50 some flights cancelled today.Call me a cynic,but I would bet several pints that this will not be resolved this side of MAY!!!!!!I wonder what William Hills would give as odds?I have Emails from Bus Driver Mates in other European Airlines ,that call T5 a total laughing stock.Even a certain West African Capital International Airport,had a better start than T5.We used to have Tea Shirts which stated "Happiness is V2 from Lxxxs".Just how many punters will be left at LHR T5????
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My Helpful Suggestion
I have a suggestion for WW. Unlike most other Ppruners my suggestion won't hurt at all. All you need to do is bring the pilot's strike forward.
See? Management is easy.
See? Management is easy.