NEWCASTLE - 7
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It was a TOM flight. They knew what was going on(a/c trapped in Austria) but PAX not told...............
The A/C they where using for this flight was the SZG, This had to divert due to SZG been closed also on the same day INN was also diverted due weather at destination, Pax had to be coached in the end frm the diversion airport to SZG, It was explained to Pax on the GVA that SZG airport was closed and there for the delay was due weather in GVA, every time a further delay was announced they where told due to adverse weather conditions in SZG.
The TOM guy wasn't much use when he did turn up.
What did you want him to do? It is not although he controls the weather, Its is just a fact of life and people who go to winter ski destinatons should realise this by now, IT SNOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and therefore weather delays can not be helped. Infomation can only be passed on when it is available.
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Yes but they had to coach the pax from SZG, Would you rather they had just left them there? And i beg to differ but the pax where told on the initial call "due adverse weather conditions in SZG" Infomation can only be passed by the handling agent to pax after it has been passed by an airlines operations dept. And next time remember if you want to go somewhere cold you may be delayed due wx
edit due error
edit due error
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It seems that VLM are planning a 2 x daily ABZ - LCY service in the summer, I wonder if they may think about NCL again. It appeared in their airport departure list for a period until Eastern pipped them at the post last time.
A larger aircraft and maybe ABZ - NCL - LCY would work for them....this was the 2008 route planned by City Star before its demise.
A larger aircraft and maybe ABZ - NCL - LCY would work for them....this was the 2008 route planned by City Star before its demise.
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Robert Wiliam:
They knew they had to do that and what that would mean for the timings(no weather problems at Linz) many many hours before we were told. And why did they show a departure time(on more than one occasion) which was impossible as the a/c hadn't even taken off from Austria???
And, yet again, I have never blamed anyone for the weather!!!!!!
They knew they had to do that and what that would mean for the timings(no weather problems at Linz) many many hours before we were told. And why did they show a departure time(on more than one occasion) which was impossible as the a/c hadn't even taken off from Austria???
And, yet again, I have never blamed anyone for the weather!!!!!!
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TOM was still operating the GVA even though it was supposed to finish last week. Base unit 757 flew some where this morning, which knocked everything out of postion. OO the based 737 that was due to fly to AGP was instead used operated the GVA with 40 less pax that were re routed, which has lead to the AGP delay. Possible 738 operated the Salzberg and Innsbruck.
TCX is a crewing issue.
LS borrowed a 737 from another base today to cover for the missing base unit.
TCX is a crewing issue.
LS borrowed a 737 from another base today to cover for the missing base unit.
Last edited by lukeylad; 22nd Mar 2008 at 19:37.
TCX/MYT to Monastir
Any idea what the crewing issues are with the TCX - looks to be the same schedule as usual, but our returning Palma seems to have gone to Gatwick with a positioning flight up from Gatwick to do the outbound?
Last edited by SWBKCB; 22nd Mar 2008 at 17:57. Reason: spelling!
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TCX
The delay for the TCX FUE was due to crew rest hours possibly due to the day before?? I think the Palma went back into Gatwick as it was a first op so no pax returning and maybe went there to cover a delay?
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ash666, your comments are very interesting considering there are no TOM ground staff based at NCL, they only have agents!! And to set the record straight, alot of things are outside of the ground agents control (often the airlines operations centre pass only basic info). Agents can only pass on what info they have. It does seem that you suffered a bad experience, but from what I have learned about that particular day the agents did all they possibly could.
A/C diverted from SZG to LNZ due wx at destination (cross winds) therefore pax had to be bussed from SZG to LNZ and vice versa. This takes time, a, to arrange ground transport and b, for the airport to cope with diversions. The aircraft then left LNZ to arrive into NCL to operate outbound GVA. Vouchers issued to pax. Yes you may not have been told as soon as the agents knew, but this was obviously done for a reason and the 'TOM guy' or staff on info desk are not to blame. From what I can gather ground agents were not privvy to diversion information and new ETD until half way through check in??
It seems some pax do not realise that airlines do nothave spare aircraft sitting around just waiting for a delay to happen!!! Do we have spare cars on our driveway just incase of a breakdown - didn't think so.
I am not having a rant ash666 at you particularly but please appreciate how difficult it can be to satisfy delayed passengers - the ground staff do the best with the information they have!!!!
A/C diverted from SZG to LNZ due wx at destination (cross winds) therefore pax had to be bussed from SZG to LNZ and vice versa. This takes time, a, to arrange ground transport and b, for the airport to cope with diversions. The aircraft then left LNZ to arrive into NCL to operate outbound GVA. Vouchers issued to pax. Yes you may not have been told as soon as the agents knew, but this was obviously done for a reason and the 'TOM guy' or staff on info desk are not to blame. From what I can gather ground agents were not privvy to diversion information and new ETD until half way through check in??
It seems some pax do not realise that airlines do nothave spare aircraft sitting around just waiting for a delay to happen!!! Do we have spare cars on our driveway just incase of a breakdown - didn't think so.
I am not having a rant ash666 at you particularly but please appreciate how difficult it can be to satisfy delayed passengers - the ground staff do the best with the information they have!!!!
Last edited by transwede; 23rd Mar 2008 at 17:15.
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With no information forthcoming how on earth was I supposed to "address the estimated arrival time of the delayed inbound"? If anyone could estimate that they would have given us a reliable departure time instead of just putting it back every 2 hours.
That way you would have least known when it was airbourne, even if you only looked on the NCL arrivals. I recall that this was given an eta as soon as airbourne. Obviously prior to this everyone at NCL was in the dark !
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actually I did "use my initiative" and access the internet which wasn't much help and my point about impossible departure times still exists. Tom should(?did) have known reasonably accurate timings for several hours and let pax know.
And I still wonder what happened to the previous 2 posts on this thread.
which wasn't much help and my point about impossible departure times still exists. Tom should(?did) have known reasonably accurate timings for several hours and let pax know.And I still wonder what happened to the previous 2 posts on this thread.
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I think previous posts were removed due to some comments made regarding individuals - though not by name, it was becoming a form of attack. All passengers suffer delays, even those of us who work within the industry. However, no matter what an airline does, what they tell pax and what pax receive in terms of service, communication and welfare, it probably would never be good enough as the flight is delayed which is always not what pax want! I have experienced delays from boths sides, as pax and staff and the airline ops departments are notorious for leaving information very late to pass to ground handling agents at outstations - so I would tend to agree that handling agents are passing on the most up to date info that THEY have.
Delta 8 I agree - lets move onto something more interesting, like S08 which is just around the corner and which the majority of staff are dreading - not sure why?!!
Forgot to mention - Jet2 have added a second charter to CFU on monday afternoons, seems they have an interest in charters.
Delta 8 I agree - lets move onto something more interesting, like S08 which is just around the corner and which the majority of staff are dreading - not sure why?!!
Forgot to mention - Jet2 have added a second charter to CFU on monday afternoons, seems they have an interest in charters.
Last edited by transwede; 24th Mar 2008 at 20:25.
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Any One care to explain how some managed to crash there car into a lampost in the near empty staff car park last night? Also any one know when there moving us next!
Oh whats not to look forward to! Bag belts not working, promised upgrade aint been done yet! Other than that I say Bring It on!! As long the Information flows well between various departments and airlines then i'll be happy!
Oh whats not to look forward to! Bag belts not working, promised upgrade aint been done yet! Other than that I say Bring It on!! As long the Information flows well between various departments and airlines then i'll be happy!
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Forgot to mention - Jet2 have added a second charter to CFU on monday afternoons, seems they have an interest in charters.
Presumably because they dont have to sell tickets and are guaranteed a certain level of income.
Presumably because they dont have to sell tickets and are guaranteed a certain level of income.
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With fear of backtracking, to pick up on a few points from ASH and Transwede.
The Handling Agent representing TOM (SP?) is, the 'TOM' rep in the eyes of the passenger and should never forget that.
The old saying of 'never keep the passengers waiting without telling them why' is as good today as it was when I first heard it 30+ years ago. All too often HA's hide behind the 'the airline are not telling us anything' and are not pro-active in sourcing information. I've managed a few operations and a good Ops centre is worth it's weight when the schedule starts to fall apart.
The complete lack of understanding when people mention the 'lack' of spare aircraft being available is one that has gone on for years. Why should people expect this in air transport when they do not in any other part of their lives? It amazes me.
I sympathise with anyone suffering a long delay as ASH did; 6 hours at any airport is not a pleaeant experience and well timed, accurate and honest information does go along way to help the delayed plan what they are going to do. I've been in too many airports, both as an employee and as a passenger, to be complacement about the information flow. Good information makes delays bearable; poor information gets the passengers annoyed and the ground staff take the heat.
GH
The Handling Agent representing TOM (SP?) is, the 'TOM' rep in the eyes of the passenger and should never forget that.
The old saying of 'never keep the passengers waiting without telling them why' is as good today as it was when I first heard it 30+ years ago. All too often HA's hide behind the 'the airline are not telling us anything' and are not pro-active in sourcing information. I've managed a few operations and a good Ops centre is worth it's weight when the schedule starts to fall apart.
The complete lack of understanding when people mention the 'lack' of spare aircraft being available is one that has gone on for years. Why should people expect this in air transport when they do not in any other part of their lives? It amazes me.
I sympathise with anyone suffering a long delay as ASH did; 6 hours at any airport is not a pleaeant experience and well timed, accurate and honest information does go along way to help the delayed plan what they are going to do. I've been in too many airports, both as an employee and as a passenger, to be complacement about the information flow. Good information makes delays bearable; poor information gets the passengers annoyed and the ground staff take the heat.
GH
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Groundhand
Thank you for that. I was going to post a similar follow up but decided to let it drop but now that you bring it up again I thought maybe I am unusual in wanting to do a good job. If I, as the agent/rep at NCL (or anywhere) had a flight going pear shaped and the airline ops weren't letting me know what was happening I would be on the phone to them to find out what was going on, or even LNZ airport in this case, and pass the info on to pax. What you say is the point that I have been trying to make all along. Pax just want honest,reliable information and you will be surprised what they will put up with. Most people on this flight were skiers and know full well that weather in the Alps in winter can be horrendous and the airline is not at fault for that.
Thank you for that. I was going to post a similar follow up but decided to let it drop but now that you bring it up again I thought maybe I am unusual in wanting to do a good job. If I, as the agent/rep at NCL (or anywhere) had a flight going pear shaped and the airline ops weren't letting me know what was happening I would be on the phone to them to find out what was going on, or even LNZ airport in this case, and pass the info on to pax. What you say is the point that I have been trying to make all along. Pax just want honest,reliable information and you will be surprised what they will put up with. Most people on this flight were skiers and know full well that weather in the Alps in winter can be horrendous and the airline is not at fault for that.
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I agree with what you both say, and I'm sure both pax and staff ppruners would also - but I think the point I and some other posters were getting at is, that an airline ops department should without being asked pass information onto their agents when a flight goes pear shaped. Quite often the staff who deal with irate delayed passengers are not members of management from the HA, but regular check in agents who are not in a position to call an ops centre for more information, nor are they in a position to ask Duty Managers etc to do this, as quite often (only from bad management) their request would be frowned upon. Something in ASH's flight obviously went wrong and I'm sure the airline and staff sympathise with that, but I'm also sure that the agents who dealt with the situation did the best they could with resources and info management/ops etc provided. Had they of been in the position to ring ops or divulgue further information, then I'm sure it would of been alot different. Pax would still be annoyed and irate, but maybe they would have been a little more tolerating.
I am by no means defending a delay - as a passenger in the days of dodgy charter outfits (Nordic primarily) I have suffered some horrific delays with no info or welfare, so I know what pax feel like, but I think the staff involved in tis situation were getting a little too much flack than what they deserve. Pax do not understand what roles and responsibilities certain staff have and what their scope and role entails.
All I would say is look at both sides and don't aim your frustrations at certain and blatantly obvious members of staff. Bear in mind NCL is very small and generally everyone knows everyone etc. As a final note, no matter who the staff or passenger is rudeness, agression and threatening behavious is not be tolerated or carried out. I have witnessed some horrendous pax tantrums - but also some staffs attitudes leave alot to be desired. Maybe as part of HA training all staff should carry out a customer service course containing areas like, how to deal with delayed passengers.
I think we all have well and truley voiced thoughts and opinions - I think the chapter on delays is well and truely over.
transwede
P.S Ash did you have a good holiday once you got there?
I am by no means defending a delay - as a passenger in the days of dodgy charter outfits (Nordic primarily) I have suffered some horrific delays with no info or welfare, so I know what pax feel like, but I think the staff involved in tis situation were getting a little too much flack than what they deserve. Pax do not understand what roles and responsibilities certain staff have and what their scope and role entails.
All I would say is look at both sides and don't aim your frustrations at certain and blatantly obvious members of staff. Bear in mind NCL is very small and generally everyone knows everyone etc. As a final note, no matter who the staff or passenger is rudeness, agression and threatening behavious is not be tolerated or carried out. I have witnessed some horrendous pax tantrums - but also some staffs attitudes leave alot to be desired. Maybe as part of HA training all staff should carry out a customer service course containing areas like, how to deal with delayed passengers.
I think we all have well and truley voiced thoughts and opinions - I think the chapter on delays is well and truely over.
transwede
P.S Ash did you have a good holiday once you got there?