CORK - 5
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
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Was up above a few hours ago as the MIL was coming in from Stansted. The multi storey car park experience would suggest there may be a serious cost cutting exercise in force at the moment. The ground floor car park lighting is aligned in three rows down the length of the parking area and I noticed only the centre strips of lights are lit. Is this by design and a cost saving exercise or were they just turned off or in some way faulty? Maybe the full lights are turned on later in the dark but even before sunset it seemed to me to be just a little on the too dark side? Kind of sad arriving up there at the time when just two summers ago we would be anticipating the arrival on Thursday nights of CSA and Malev, a few babys etc.
Oh, well.
Oh, well.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
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Mr Joe Gantly, RIP
Mr Joe Gantly, the former chairman of the Cork Airport Authority died suddenly last night. He was 52 years of age and is survived by his wife and family. Reports from the hill indicate that Mr Gantly died of a sudden heart attack.
May he rest in peace.
Mr Joe Gantly, the former chairman of the Cork Airport Authority died suddenly last night. He was 52 years of age and is survived by his wife and family. Reports from the hill indicate that Mr Gantly died of a sudden heart attack.
May he rest in peace.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
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I admire your enthusiasm in encouraging support for a Cork - Brussels route and wish your group well. You may have noticed that the good folk of the marketing department at Cork have signed up on the anna.aero group and on their wish list they are seeking out support for a Brussels route as well so at least it is a destination which is on their mind. Cant see EI doing it though as they will feel they have the area covered with fairly good frequencies to AMS though the winter schedule is actually better than in the summer or at least that has been the case over the last two winters.
I should imagine there is a high frequency and quick train service between Schiphol and Brussels? 840, any idea how much the train fare is?
As for an air route if Cork and FR are rumored to be sucking up to each other again why not a Charleroi Cork? They certainly have the airframes available not that they have shown any great interest in Cork. Far more free publicity out there to be had in charging for boarding cards and 5h!te like that than having anything upbeat to say.
Anyone hear anything about an Onur Air A321 off loading some bags on Saturday because with the bad weather and crosswinds they were out of limits to go direct to Dalaman from Cork's short 7000 feet runway if they took the full complement of baggage so they left some behind which followed later via Gatwick or Dublin with Ryanair to join another flight to Turkey. I am sure that being the case it would have been a hell of a money spinner for FR. Money for jam!
That poxy, poxy runway!
I should imagine there is a high frequency and quick train service between Schiphol and Brussels? 840, any idea how much the train fare is?
As for an air route if Cork and FR are rumored to be sucking up to each other again why not a Charleroi Cork? They certainly have the airframes available not that they have shown any great interest in Cork. Far more free publicity out there to be had in charging for boarding cards and 5h!te like that than having anything upbeat to say.
Anyone hear anything about an Onur Air A321 off loading some bags on Saturday because with the bad weather and crosswinds they were out of limits to go direct to Dalaman from Cork's short 7000 feet runway if they took the full complement of baggage so they left some behind which followed later via Gatwick or Dublin with Ryanair to join another flight to Turkey. I am sure that being the case it would have been a hell of a money spinner for FR. Money for jam!
That poxy, poxy runway!
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Currently Schiphol-Brussels is about 2 hours 20 minutes, with 2 trains an hour. Price is complex for international journeys, but I'd say that for an open 2nd class return you'd be looking at around 60 quid. If you can take some restrictions, you can probably bring that closer to 40.
When the much-delayed HSL Zuid line (TGV standard) opens later this year, the time will come down to around 1 hour 25 minutes, again with 2 trains an hour. But fares will rise. The talk is that Dutch domestic trains on the line will cost about 25% more. I've no idea how that applies to international trains.
Brussels is also about 90 minutes from Charles de Gaulle by direct train, but those are more expensive and a lot less frequent.
When the much-delayed HSL Zuid line (TGV standard) opens later this year, the time will come down to around 1 hour 25 minutes, again with 2 trains an hour. But fares will rise. The talk is that Dutch domestic trains on the line will cost about 25% more. I've no idea how that applies to international trains.
Brussels is also about 90 minutes from Charles de Gaulle by direct train, but those are more expensive and a lot less frequent.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Thanks, 840, for the updates on the Schiphol Brussels train services. Two trains an hour is hard to beat and whether it is the early morning arrival or the evening one I should imagine the twice hourly frequency stands for both so no real problems getting to Brussels and for between Euro 40 to 60 that sounds like a good enough price to me. It is hard to see Brussels ever being done again ex-Cork when you consider it in those terms.
Perhaps a leaf should be taken out of Mary Harney's book when she argued a case that Irish people may well be closer to Boston than Brussels and with that in mind a consideration may be put aside for looking all together instead at a Cork to Boston service even if was on a purely short seasonal basis. If Brussels Airlines were able to make an aeroplane available twice weekly a few years ago to try Cork just maybe someone like AA or NW/DL could test out the market to Cork from Boston. Afterall, if Knock was able to do it with a 737-700 why not? It might be even easier to fill than a Brussels?
Of course, once again, if the reported Onur Air bags off load was as in my post above the awful limitations of the Cork runway have been made abundantly clear once again and so we have a situation whereby earlier in the year it was more or less admitted on these forums by, presumably line pilots, that the short runway at Cork is something that is taken into account during diversions from elsewhere, namely Dublin, when the weather there is bad and that a preference is somehow there to divert anywhere other than Cork unless it was just absolutely necessary and that there was no where left to go except Cork.
Now, there are other reports above that last summer the XL flight to Santorini in Greece was on occasion similarly compromised by limitations and that bags were also off loaded from some of those flights.
If all the above is true it damns to hell any credibility that Cork Airport has or aspires to and in it's way brings shame to us all in Cork. It says it all about Cork and just what an @rsehole place Cork can be sometimes when at the height of it's ignorance.
Perhaps a leaf should be taken out of Mary Harney's book when she argued a case that Irish people may well be closer to Boston than Brussels and with that in mind a consideration may be put aside for looking all together instead at a Cork to Boston service even if was on a purely short seasonal basis. If Brussels Airlines were able to make an aeroplane available twice weekly a few years ago to try Cork just maybe someone like AA or NW/DL could test out the market to Cork from Boston. Afterall, if Knock was able to do it with a 737-700 why not? It might be even easier to fill than a Brussels?
Of course, once again, if the reported Onur Air bags off load was as in my post above the awful limitations of the Cork runway have been made abundantly clear once again and so we have a situation whereby earlier in the year it was more or less admitted on these forums by, presumably line pilots, that the short runway at Cork is something that is taken into account during diversions from elsewhere, namely Dublin, when the weather there is bad and that a preference is somehow there to divert anywhere other than Cork unless it was just absolutely necessary and that there was no where left to go except Cork.
Now, there are other reports above that last summer the XL flight to Santorini in Greece was on occasion similarly compromised by limitations and that bags were also off loaded from some of those flights.
If all the above is true it damns to hell any credibility that Cork Airport has or aspires to and in it's way brings shame to us all in Cork. It says it all about Cork and just what an @rsehole place Cork can be sometimes when at the height of it's ignorance.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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840 "Brussels is also about 90 minutes from Charles de Gaulle by direct train, but those are more expensive and a lot less frequent"
True.......it's just as easy to take an RER train to Paris Nord from CDG and then pick up a THALYS train to Brussels though.
MH
True.......it's just as easy to take an RER train to Paris Nord from CDG and then pick up a THALYS train to Brussels though.
MH
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Runway at Cork
Cork would have to make a strong business case to the DAA for extending 17/35. Saying that a Turkish 321 had to off load bags once or twice a year would hardly be enough to justify expenditure of this sort.
Realistically it will only happen in the context of US routes being established from Cork.
Realistically it will only happen in the context of US routes being established from Cork.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Just on the topic of the OnurAir not departing due to a crosswind limit...
These limits are set usually by the company (OnurAir) and not by the Airport, Runway length usually isnt a factor with crosswind limitations of the aircraft neither is the weight of the aircraft, as a line pilot usually the only reason bags are offloaded is because the aircraft is too heavy to depart or too heavy to land at the other side, with the aircraft being above the MLW (max landing weight), however being a ORK based line pilot I agree that ORK is usually avoided in the event of a diversion due to the runway being slightly too short for comfort in the event of a problem, with SNN not that far away and a runway thats alot longer usually its a more sensible option!
JJ
These limits are set usually by the company (OnurAir) and not by the Airport, Runway length usually isnt a factor with crosswind limitations of the aircraft neither is the weight of the aircraft, as a line pilot usually the only reason bags are offloaded is because the aircraft is too heavy to depart or too heavy to land at the other side, with the aircraft being above the MLW (max landing weight), however being a ORK based line pilot I agree that ORK is usually avoided in the event of a diversion due to the runway being slightly too short for comfort in the event of a problem, with SNN not that far away and a runway thats alot longer usually its a more sensible option!
JJ
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Cork to Brussels
Just to pick up the point on ORK-AMS and ORK-CDG being alternatives to ORK-BRU. (I live in Belgium, I am from Cork).
Advantage of BRU-ORK for me versus AMS-ORK:
International train tickets:
SNN-London vs ORK-London would add* a maximum of
If the connections between Brussels and Amsterdam/Paris were so cheap and convenient then Aer Lingus could replace ORK-AMS and ORK-CDG by a 3-daily ORK-BRU
Okay, I'm joking. But I'm just trying to illustrate my point.
If this were to happen I don't expect regular passengers on ORK-CDG or ORK-AMS would be saying "Shur I'm not bothered, it's fierce convenient and cheap for me to get from BRU to my final destination in France/The Netherlands".
Also, that's the thing. Lot's of people travelling between Cork and Belgium are not going to Brussels, but somewhere else like Ostend, Bruges, Ghent, Liège, Leuven, etc which are even further away from Amsterdam/Paris...
It boils down to the question: is there enough demand for a ORK-BRU route?
I think so. So do the people from Cork who come to visit me. So do the 140+ people who joined that Facebook group, and their partners/children/family/friends who would also potentially use the route. And that Facebook group represents a small subset of all people wanting the route. And the existence of the route itself would also generate passengers who never thought about travelling to Brussels previously...
Okay others may believe there is not enough demand for the route. No problem. They're entitled to their opinions, and can try to convince me otherwise if they wish
Advantage of BRU-ORK for me versus AMS-ORK:
- Save 3 hours travelling
- Save 80 euros in train costs (it's rather difficult to get cheaper than that for the trains I'd need)
- Save a half days holidays at work
- Save 3 hours travelling (There's no train service anymore between Brussels and CDG. Necessary to go to Paris-Nord first, then take the RER.)
- Save 80 euros in train + RER costs (cheaper is rare, more expensive is likely)
- Save a full days holidays at work
International train tickets:
- You can only reserve 3 months or less before departure
- Train tickets cannot be mailed to Ireland
- You miss the specific train you reserved for (eg. due to a plane delay) and it costs and arm and leg and quite a bit if time to get on the next train.
SNN-London vs ORK-London would add* a maximum of
- 2 hours bus (*Cork city to Shannon is 2h30 - Cork city to Cork Airport 0h20)
- 20 euro return bus fare (*Cork city - Shannon fare minus Cork city to Cork airport fare)
- Half days holiday at work
If the connections between Brussels and Amsterdam/Paris were so cheap and convenient then Aer Lingus could replace ORK-AMS and ORK-CDG by a 3-daily ORK-BRU
Okay, I'm joking. But I'm just trying to illustrate my point.If this were to happen I don't expect regular passengers on ORK-CDG or ORK-AMS would be saying "Shur I'm not bothered, it's fierce convenient and cheap for me to get from BRU to my final destination in France/The Netherlands".
Also, that's the thing. Lot's of people travelling between Cork and Belgium are not going to Brussels, but somewhere else like Ostend, Bruges, Ghent, Liège, Leuven, etc which are even further away from Amsterdam/Paris...
It boils down to the question: is there enough demand for a ORK-BRU route?
I think so. So do the people from Cork who come to visit me. So do the 140+ people who joined that Facebook group, and their partners/children/family/friends who would also potentially use the route. And that Facebook group represents a small subset of all people wanting the route. And the existence of the route itself would also generate passengers who never thought about travelling to Brussels previously...
Okay others may believe there is not enough demand for the route. No problem. They're entitled to their opinions, and can try to convince me otherwise if they wish
Join Date: Aug 2000
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That is pretty much a tour de force presentation you have there, Charlie Roy, on the arguements for a Cork to Brussels flight. Hope it comes to pass. Like with the relatively short flight time to Amsterdam you would think that a Brussels flight would be worth another punt in terms of risk at even at a three or four weekly frequency? Crikey, even two a week would do for a start. Brussels Airlines have now gobbled up Virgin Express - is that correct? You would think the availability of more frames would help the case for Cork?
Have you made any contacts with the local airline people in Brussels to ascertain their views? If not, might be worth a try?
There are two bus services from Cork Airport to the city. The Skylink service and the state bus company service, Bus Eireann. Both have reasonably good frequencies. Depends on where you are going before deciding whether a taxi is worth the extra cash.
As for runway issues, weights and diversion rates to Cork the posting by jiffajaffa is to my mind very interesting. Quietly says it all.
Have you made any contacts with the local airline people in Brussels to ascertain their views? If not, might be worth a try?
There are two bus services from Cork Airport to the city. The Skylink service and the state bus company service, Bus Eireann. Both have reasonably good frequencies. Depends on where you are going before deciding whether a taxi is worth the extra cash.
As for runway issues, weights and diversion rates to Cork the posting by jiffajaffa is to my mind very interesting. Quietly says it all.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Ork Bru
Jet Magic operated ORK BRU in 2003. Many of those who had been asking for the service ignored it and travelled to CRL with FR and even BRU via LHR. Much of the business traffic from Ireland to Brussels tends to be generated by Civil servants based in Dublin.
Milan would be a far better destination given its proximity to the Italian lakes and mountains. It would also generate inward business.
Milan would be a far better destination given its proximity to the Italian lakes and mountains. It would also generate inward business.
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greatoaks->I've used Skylink. It's fine coming from the airport. Coming from town is a bit of a pain. There are two routes with no overlap, so each only has an hourly service. Basically, you don't want to get the timetable wrong. But a taxi isn't too much of a pain. For the city centre, as a general rule, if there's one or two of you, Skylink will be cheaper than a taxi. Three will cost around the same amount. Four or more and a taxi will be cheaper (although you may have to wait a while for a taxi that can take five or more).
Charlie->While I appreciate what you're saying, the time from Amsterdam to Brussels will soon be 85 minutes or so. That's not a huge amount longer than the Stansted Express and people still use Stansted while flying from London. And while there are other destinations in Belgium, the major alternative is Antwerp, which will be less than an hour from AMS. Bruges and Ghent will be a connection in Antwerp, while they also involve a not inconsiderable journey to Brussels.
Good luck with your campaign. I'm sure there is demand there for a service. Whether an airline can make a profit is the big question.
Charlie->While I appreciate what you're saying, the time from Amsterdam to Brussels will soon be 85 minutes or so. That's not a huge amount longer than the Stansted Express and people still use Stansted while flying from London. And while there are other destinations in Belgium, the major alternative is Antwerp, which will be less than an hour from AMS. Bruges and Ghent will be a connection in Antwerp, while they also involve a not inconsiderable journey to Brussels.
Good luck with your campaign. I'm sure there is demand there for a service. Whether an airline can make a profit is the big question.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but did SN not offer an ORK-BRU service one summer. Probably 2005? It was twice weekly as I recall. If there was such a demand they would probably have kept the service, or at least returned the following summer. They were only operating RJ85's so it was not like they had hundreds of seats to fill.
The reality is that ORK is a price sensitive market and dominated by FR and EI. Im not sure there are enough Corkonians willing to stump up for full service, never mind business class to make routes like this by flag carriers work.
Brian.
The reality is that ORK is a price sensitive market and dominated by FR and EI. Im not sure there are enough Corkonians willing to stump up for full service, never mind business class to make routes like this by flag carriers work.
Brian.