BOURNEMOUTH - 2
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I thought there was only one based a/c at Gdansk
anyway, i don't understand why they did BOH-Gdansk when quite obviously it was gonna be a flop. Warsaw (WAW) is crying out to be served from BOH. i suppose Wizz dont have a/c available at WAW for them to add new services or they would have done it already i'm sure
anyway, i don't understand why they did BOH-Gdansk when quite obviously it was gonna be a flop. Warsaw (WAW) is crying out to be served from BOH. i suppose Wizz dont have a/c available at WAW for them to add new services or they would have done it already i'm sure
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Boh Development
Come on BOH - WHATS GOING ON WITH THE DEVELOPMENT (or lack of)!!!!!!
Lets have some honest answers - for a change!! We are all fed up of the corporate answers.
Warings seemed to be loading all of their plant equipment onto the back of a flatbed lorry this morning.
Another botched patch up job on the main apron taxiway and stand 5. The recent works on std 3 already seems to braking up despite being patched up only a few days ago.
Is that all that £32 million gets you these days???
The airport have had this money for 18 months now, the excuses are getting a bit thin.
We are fortunate to have been chosen as a Ryanair base and then embarrass ourselves by not even starting work on the new stands let alone the terminal.
Rumors are circling that Ryanairs second base aircraft is heading to BHX and we possibly won't see another base a/c til Feb09. If they decide to stick around til then!!!!
Lets have some honest answers - for a change!! We are all fed up of the corporate answers.
Warings seemed to be loading all of their plant equipment onto the back of a flatbed lorry this morning.
Another botched patch up job on the main apron taxiway and stand 5. The recent works on std 3 already seems to braking up despite being patched up only a few days ago.
Is that all that £32 million gets you these days???
The airport have had this money for 18 months now, the excuses are getting a bit thin.
We are fortunate to have been chosen as a Ryanair base and then embarrass ourselves by not even starting work on the new stands let alone the terminal.
Rumors are circling that Ryanairs second base aircraft is heading to BHX and we possibly won't see another base a/c til Feb09. If they decide to stick around til then!!!!
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don't worry, i have it from a good source that work will be completed 'just-in-time' and that its good cost saving measure to consult with the airlines to have the work complete when exactly needed.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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We were told yesterday after the airport meeting that all work will stop till july as the airport maybe sold as part of manchester airport groups bid for either stansted or gatwick airport
Join Date: Jan 2008
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@en2r
Buy it or not, it's a fact, GDN is down to 2 a/c from 3. Will be 5 in KTW, 3 in WAW, 2-2 in BUD/GDN/BBU/SOF, 1-1 in POZ/CLJ/KBP (=19 by the end of summer).
Edited to add: no a/c sitting around (as daily utilization is up to 14+ hrs summertime), some W-pattern flts will also be operated by GDN-based a/c.
I don't buy this whole theory about an aircraft being pulled from Gdansk. The only routes being axed are Coventry and Bournemouth which both only operated 3 weekly, and Coventry had red eye flights. There is no way they'd have an aircraft just sitting in Gdansk to operate 2 flights 3 days a week and then just sit around doing nothing for the rest of the week.
Edited to add: no a/c sitting around (as daily utilization is up to 14+ hrs summertime), some W-pattern flts will also be operated by GDN-based a/c.
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Has any work actually happened in the terminal then or was it just clearing away the area in the hope that work will start . Seems really extreme to stop work after getting this far down the line with all the hold ups and now for the MAG group itself to put a halt to this ?
Are they really committed to Bournemouth or will we have yet another change of owner in due course
I have to say Bournemouth probably has the worst arrivals area in the UK and departure area now yet we still continue to bring in good passenger numbers and growing routes .
I remember when the new check in area was opened back in 1984 we had
Dan Air 748 s based operating the link city and Channel Islands routes plus the Bath Travel flights to the Med and thinking then how smart the airport looked and how it would progress and develop . 24 years later its all looking very tired
Bournemouth has had its fair share of disappointments over the years with many promised developments that just have not happened while Southampton has taken off with a lovely modern terminal and even Exeter has a terminal we could do with !
Lets hope this is a slight hitch and we finally get a terminal and apron etc we can be proud of and owners who are totally committed to the airport
Are they really committed to Bournemouth or will we have yet another change of owner in due course
I have to say Bournemouth probably has the worst arrivals area in the UK and departure area now yet we still continue to bring in good passenger numbers and growing routes .
I remember when the new check in area was opened back in 1984 we had
Dan Air 748 s based operating the link city and Channel Islands routes plus the Bath Travel flights to the Med and thinking then how smart the airport looked and how it would progress and develop . 24 years later its all looking very tired
Bournemouth has had its fair share of disappointments over the years with many promised developments that just have not happened while Southampton has taken off with a lovely modern terminal and even Exeter has a terminal we could do with !
Lets hope this is a slight hitch and we finally get a terminal and apron etc we can be proud of and owners who are totally committed to the airport
Join Date: Apr 2004
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in terms of the development the whole terminal is surrounded by 'works fencing/boarding' and a huge area has been completely flattened - the extra aircraft stands and the area for the new arrivals hall. to save money the work has been stopped so it can be delivered just-in-time. Althought to be honest this kind of illustrates the airports lack of understanding of airline operations. If an airport is not ready an airline simply won't land there, yet another missed opportunity. you won't get easyJet saying, ''oh keep 2 a/c by for BOH as it's new terminal will be ready soon'' ...
the thing that perplexes me is the fact that the airport doesn't work with the local university. There are a group of students taking a coach to Stansted to fly Ryanair to France. This is buts quite simply. and does the region no good whatsoever. The univesity should choose a destination based on where they can fly to from Bmth, and then claim reduced environmental impact as no motorway driving is necessary. D'OH! Come on guys, work together! Could even get a press release out of that.
anyway, all round pretty frustrating including waiting over 24 years for any kind of improvements at this airport. If MAG were to buy LGW I doubt selling BOH would help towards the cost, and if BAA were to buy BOH I have serious doubts over how well they would manage it with their vested interest in SOU. MAG need shot of HUY, not BOH. BOH is doing well for them financially i'm almosty certain of that.
the thing that perplexes me is the fact that the airport doesn't work with the local university. There are a group of students taking a coach to Stansted to fly Ryanair to France. This is buts quite simply. and does the region no good whatsoever. The univesity should choose a destination based on where they can fly to from Bmth, and then claim reduced environmental impact as no motorway driving is necessary. D'OH! Come on guys, work together! Could even get a press release out of that.
anyway, all round pretty frustrating including waiting over 24 years for any kind of improvements at this airport. If MAG were to buy LGW I doubt selling BOH would help towards the cost, and if BAA were to buy BOH I have serious doubts over how well they would manage it with their vested interest in SOU. MAG need shot of HUY, not BOH. BOH is doing well for them financially i'm almosty certain of that.
Love-jet, i agree, my observed opinion is MAG unwilling to invest in advance, to help attract business. I believe this is why some parts of there terminals like at EMA and HUY can resemble a set of porta-cabins screwed together. Could this be something to do with MAG still in public ownership? (if im right in thinking this is the case)
Also agree BOH is one to hold onto, HUY needs the investment to keep the profit and even more to attract half the interest BOH/EMA have recently. I just hope there appanent way of spending doesnt hinder BOH's growth.
Also agree BOH is one to hold onto, HUY needs the investment to keep the profit and even more to attract half the interest BOH/EMA have recently. I just hope there appanent way of spending doesnt hinder BOH's growth.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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MAG is indeed entirely owned by the councils of Greater Manchester.
Presumably this means in practical terms that every pound spent on infrastructure is a pound less that can be dividended out to the councils to reduce council tax... not hard to see where the councils' motivation would be.
Presumably this means in practical terms that every pound spent on infrastructure is a pound less that can be dividended out to the councils to reduce council tax... not hard to see where the councils' motivation would be.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Terminal Progress (no punn intended)
The Terminal will be built irrespective of whether MAG owns the airport or not. Airports in the UK are money making machines so long as they can process passengers and freight.
MAG bought BOH from National Express who having purchased from the council for almost no money, made a huge profit from the deal. MAG bought EMA which is what they really wanted... MAG got BOH as a part of the deal - almost a buy one get one free arrangement. Since then MAG has taken BOH ownership seriously and has approved investment in the new terminal.
A read of this interview gives some clues to MAG strategy and rationale.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ansportintheuk
Even if MAG were to sell, there would be investors from Spain, Australia and elsewhere lining up to buy, because of the money making machine characteristic of UK airports.
Any airport asset is driven by the runway and operating license. A bit like a piece of land gaining value when it has permision for building. Passenger airport licenses in the UK are rare and valuable.
BOH has a decent licensed runway in the south of the UK. Because of slot availability elsewhere (basic physics - only about 40 movements max per hour is feasable per runway) BOH will see double digit growth annually at least until additional runways are built to serve London.
The new terminal will happen, delays to infrastructure projects are commonplace (Dubai Terminal 3 is two years late already) but no reason to doubt the programme. Key clues are planning permission and a public statement from MAG that they have committed the investment.... and the fact that have the former infrastructure has been knocked down!
It's the runways that the airlines need, the terminal is important but secondary - even LHR uses tents sometimes! But without the runways you have nothing more than a shopping mall.
Airport owners think like landlords, ie. how can they make the most profit from their investment.
FF
MAG bought BOH from National Express who having purchased from the council for almost no money, made a huge profit from the deal. MAG bought EMA which is what they really wanted... MAG got BOH as a part of the deal - almost a buy one get one free arrangement. Since then MAG has taken BOH ownership seriously and has approved investment in the new terminal.
A read of this interview gives some clues to MAG strategy and rationale.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ansportintheuk
Even if MAG were to sell, there would be investors from Spain, Australia and elsewhere lining up to buy, because of the money making machine characteristic of UK airports.
Any airport asset is driven by the runway and operating license. A bit like a piece of land gaining value when it has permision for building. Passenger airport licenses in the UK are rare and valuable.
BOH has a decent licensed runway in the south of the UK. Because of slot availability elsewhere (basic physics - only about 40 movements max per hour is feasable per runway) BOH will see double digit growth annually at least until additional runways are built to serve London.
The new terminal will happen, delays to infrastructure projects are commonplace (Dubai Terminal 3 is two years late already) but no reason to doubt the programme. Key clues are planning permission and a public statement from MAG that they have committed the investment.... and the fact that have the former infrastructure has been knocked down!
It's the runways that the airlines need, the terminal is important but secondary - even LHR uses tents sometimes! But without the runways you have nothing more than a shopping mall.
Airport owners think like landlords, ie. how can they make the most profit from their investment.
FF
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Flitefone - I agree with much of what you say. However
Airport owners (and landlords!) try to maximise return on investment - and the longer they can delay investment the less return they need to make. Speculative investment in infrastructure rarely makes financial sense. In addition MAN is always going to generate a bigger return for every £ invested than BOH.
If you want a comparison - look at how little MAG has invested in the business park attached to BOH - a vastly bigger cash cow than the airport in the short term. Despite what Mr Muirhead may have said in 2004, MAG have rarely demonstrated anything other than very short-term thinking with regards to BOH (and HUY).
Airport owners (and landlords!) try to maximise return on investment - and the longer they can delay investment the less return they need to make. Speculative investment in infrastructure rarely makes financial sense. In addition MAN is always going to generate a bigger return for every £ invested than BOH.
If you want a comparison - look at how little MAG has invested in the business park attached to BOH - a vastly bigger cash cow than the airport in the short term. Despite what Mr Muirhead may have said in 2004, MAG have rarely demonstrated anything other than very short-term thinking with regards to BOH (and HUY).
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Err are you sure MAG own the business park? I think it's more complex than that.
Either way why spend capital - on the business park - if its not necessary (ie. the assett is generating acceptable profit)
Bournemouth Airport is run as an autonomous business like the other MAG airports and will make a case for capital to MAG just as EMA, MAN and HUY will do. The MAG board will put their money where they see the best return and least risk, that is not always the biggest business, but the one offering the best growth lowest risk.
MAN traffic is stagnant/falling and they (the airport) have paid for a shiny new runway which is still a big debt to amortize.
Interesting to watch..
FF
Either way why spend capital - on the business park - if its not necessary (ie. the assett is generating acceptable profit)
Bournemouth Airport is run as an autonomous business like the other MAG airports and will make a case for capital to MAG just as EMA, MAN and HUY will do. The MAG board will put their money where they see the best return and least risk, that is not always the biggest business, but the one offering the best growth lowest risk.
MAN traffic is stagnant/falling and they (the airport) have paid for a shiny new runway which is still a big debt to amortize.
Interesting to watch..
FF
Last edited by Flitefone; 20th May 2008 at 15:35. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Absolutely sure that Bournemouth International Airport Ltd owns the business park, on a very long lease from the Council. I believe that a number of the newer buildings were built by tenants who leased the land and paid for their own building. The older (WWII) building stock is owned by the airport.
Why invest in the business park? Because it's an enormous investment opportunity in an area with high property cost and demand. It depends on your definition of 'acceptable level of return'. My point is that in the last 5 years MAG has invested little in either the business park or the airport and that suggests a strategy of maximising short-term returns at the expense of investing for the future.
Whilst pax numbers at MAN might be falling, I'll bet that 1 pax at MAN is worth more than 1 at BOH, both in landing fees and retail. And so spending a pound at MAN to retain a passenger is better than spending a pound at BOH to gain a new one.
Why invest in the business park? Because it's an enormous investment opportunity in an area with high property cost and demand. It depends on your definition of 'acceptable level of return'. My point is that in the last 5 years MAG has invested little in either the business park or the airport and that suggests a strategy of maximising short-term returns at the expense of investing for the future.
Whilst pax numbers at MAN might be falling, I'll bet that 1 pax at MAN is worth more than 1 at BOH, both in landing fees and retail. And so spending a pound at MAN to retain a passenger is better than spending a pound at BOH to gain a new one.
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Where to spend the money!?
Thanks Coasthugger. Either way business is business and a decent CEO will make a case for capital to his board and fight for the money to do what he wants. Some fights are won and some lost, in business a smart manager picks his battles. I doubt the business park will be on the radar for much except road infrastructiure improvements.
At least the investment decision has been made as regards the money for the new terminal.
I remain confident that BOH will get its nice new building, car parks and apron - which will not be the 'taj mahal' BAA & Dublin style so loathed by Michael O'Leary.
The business park is full of tenants which says that the business is running ok at a high level anyway, empty buildings usually mean no rent (bad), new buildings mean higher rent (also bad if you have mostly low end tenants) The risk is clear.
Aside from the airport's park, there is the matter of the large BASCO hangar that does not get much use these days. Now thats one I would like to see put to better use.
As I said before the main asset is the runway, a little bit of management vision would see longer term initiatives to enhance runway capacity... high speed turn-offs for 26 and 08 north and south, improved runway lighting, surface grooves for improved braking in the wet.... and of course a full length taxiway at the western end to avoid those back tracks.
I predicted similar initiatives at SOU for 2008 in a post last year for the same reasons.
Peak hour runway slots are at a premium in the southeast UK. Investment plans there would make an interesting study.. both for revenue and the assett value of the airport.
FF
At least the investment decision has been made as regards the money for the new terminal.
I remain confident that BOH will get its nice new building, car parks and apron - which will not be the 'taj mahal' BAA & Dublin style so loathed by Michael O'Leary.
The business park is full of tenants which says that the business is running ok at a high level anyway, empty buildings usually mean no rent (bad), new buildings mean higher rent (also bad if you have mostly low end tenants) The risk is clear.
Aside from the airport's park, there is the matter of the large BASCO hangar that does not get much use these days. Now thats one I would like to see put to better use.
As I said before the main asset is the runway, a little bit of management vision would see longer term initiatives to enhance runway capacity... high speed turn-offs for 26 and 08 north and south, improved runway lighting, surface grooves for improved braking in the wet.... and of course a full length taxiway at the western end to avoid those back tracks.
I predicted similar initiatives at SOU for 2008 in a post last year for the same reasons.
Peak hour runway slots are at a premium in the southeast UK. Investment plans there would make an interesting study.. both for revenue and the assett value of the airport.
FF
Join Date: Apr 2004
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development
2 points:
1st - all financial data is available on MAG's website. Download the report and accounts and u'll see that BOH don't make much money from non-aeronautical interests. The aeronautical revenue is slipping too - but this is in line with increased LCC activity. 07/08 report and accounts due out soon. Latest one shows BOH is in the black.
2nd - master plan at BOH gives all details of development at the airport up to 2030. Unfortunately no high-speed run-offs or parallel taxi-ways, only re-aligned ones and improvements to aprobn areas etc. This can be downloaded from BOH's website.
1st - all financial data is available on MAG's website. Download the report and accounts and u'll see that BOH don't make much money from non-aeronautical interests. The aeronautical revenue is slipping too - but this is in line with increased LCC activity. 07/08 report and accounts due out soon. Latest one shows BOH is in the black.
2nd - master plan at BOH gives all details of development at the airport up to 2030. Unfortunately no high-speed run-offs or parallel taxi-ways, only re-aligned ones and improvements to aprobn areas etc. This can be downloaded from BOH's website.
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The accounts will make a good read, will wait till the winter evenings when I've nothing better to do. Company accounts and investor statements give a lot of clues on strategy and finance.
I read the masterplan last year, agree that it is weak on recognising need for growth in runway capacity (and aircraft stands). Coming years will certainly see much more focus on squeezing more aircraft onto each runway strip accross the south of uk. The advent of the 380 at LHR -because of the wake vortex limits and the sluggish on ground manoevering -will make the problem worse in the UK southeast.
This topic will get more general press as the situation worsens - it is already pretty high profile - usually when LHR has a heavy day or two of delays.
FF
I read the masterplan last year, agree that it is weak on recognising need for growth in runway capacity (and aircraft stands). Coming years will certainly see much more focus on squeezing more aircraft onto each runway strip accross the south of uk. The advent of the 380 at LHR -because of the wake vortex limits and the sluggish on ground manoevering -will make the problem worse in the UK southeast.
This topic will get more general press as the situation worsens - it is already pretty high profile - usually when LHR has a heavy day or two of delays.
FF
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Lovejet - I don't think there is sufficient information in MAG's accounts for you to judge the split of property and non-property income at BOH. Certainly the analysis on page p11 specifically excludes property income.
You also need to consider that the property income from BOH in the divisional analysis on p17, the property income from BOH is reported as part of the 'Manchester Airport Developments' divisional result.
If you got a copy of Bournemouth's own accounts you'd see a significantly higher income than is reported here - I assume that the difference is the business park.
On that basis the park generates significantly more profit than the airport does.
You also need to consider that the property income from BOH in the divisional analysis on p17, the property income from BOH is reported as part of the 'Manchester Airport Developments' divisional result.
If you got a copy of Bournemouth's own accounts you'd see a significantly higher income than is reported here - I assume that the difference is the business park.
On that basis the park generates significantly more profit than the airport does.
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Coasthugger, you're totally correct; albeit the airport sold off the business park to MADL - profits are not recognised as part of BOH's income/P&L. The two are separate. Any selling of BOH (the airport) will not include the business park which MADL will continue to manage, or more likely, sell off seperately.
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Not surely that's entirely correct. I believe that the terms of the original sale by the council to National Express required that the park and the airport could not be separated - to protect the airport from being closed down and turned into a business park.
So I think that while MADL have management responsibility for the park it is still legally owned by Bournemouth International Airport Limited. Certainly that was the case when I last looked at that company's accounts a couple of years ago.
I also think that MAG is prevented on this basis from selling the business park and the airport separately.
So I think that while MADL have management responsibility for the park it is still legally owned by Bournemouth International Airport Limited. Certainly that was the case when I last looked at that company's accounts a couple of years ago.
I also think that MAG is prevented on this basis from selling the business park and the airport separately.