BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
Because Balpa in BA are A) Sh1t scared of the company and B) only interested in protecting the senior Long Haul boys and their terms and conditions and the rest of us can go hang (especially Short Haul as the general assumption is that nobody in BA really wants to be a Short Haul Pilot and everyone wants to be on a Long Haul fleet long term anyway so it’s an easy give away for concessions to the company). These are the reasons I won’t give Balpa a penny, go on tell me I’m wrong.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
From: UK
The union in this country is fecking useless. They dally and fiddle. You’ve only got to read the magazine to see they’re nibbling away at the small stuff whilst the big stuff sails by. They’re like a workman on the titanic worrying about wonky table legs. The rest of the world has become more enlightened and forward thinking regarding lifestyle issues and their impact on mortality and health.
Aviation. An arrogant hypocritical industry with regulators full of old flying boys who don’t like change. The attitude hasn’t changed since the 1930s. To prove how full of it they are, if damage to the public were a factor, whatever practice would be nipped in the bud. If it were found that running an engine beyond limits would blow it up, there’d be a rule. But when it comes to pilots health? The response is “it’s down to the pilots”. So compared to the public, you’re sacrificial. And the best bit is, pilots being institutionalised in their professionalism will absolutely not let this affect work. In fact, it’s their private life and own well being that suffers. Pilots will literally sacrifice their well being at the alter of their profession.
We”ve all seen it. The little talks during SEP about “managing fatigue” or “stress”. The pointing out there’s “support” for mental health. As if we’re meant to be wowed by this approach?? Yup, it’s down to you. We want the high standards, high medical levels but we’re blowed if we’re going to help you stand a chance of staying well by addressing the factors. That’s gonna cost too much and would mean the whole system needs rebooting (sharp intake of breath). Thats it, straight out of the 19th century. That’s it, the best a modern regulator and it’s industry can come up with in supposedly the most advanced forward thinking industry around. To paraphrase a film, Rumour control, here are the facts. Stress, fatigue and sleep deprivation shorten your life. And we let these clowns get away with this without blowing the whistle. Like I said, it’s not entirely BA’s fault. We have the CAA for a reason and they’re failing at keeping pace with the 21st century medical and wellbeing view outside of aviation.
Aviation. An arrogant hypocritical industry with regulators full of old flying boys who don’t like change. The attitude hasn’t changed since the 1930s. To prove how full of it they are, if damage to the public were a factor, whatever practice would be nipped in the bud. If it were found that running an engine beyond limits would blow it up, there’d be a rule. But when it comes to pilots health? The response is “it’s down to the pilots”. So compared to the public, you’re sacrificial. And the best bit is, pilots being institutionalised in their professionalism will absolutely not let this affect work. In fact, it’s their private life and own well being that suffers. Pilots will literally sacrifice their well being at the alter of their profession.
We”ve all seen it. The little talks during SEP about “managing fatigue” or “stress”. The pointing out there’s “support” for mental health. As if we’re meant to be wowed by this approach?? Yup, it’s down to you. We want the high standards, high medical levels but we’re blowed if we’re going to help you stand a chance of staying well by addressing the factors. That’s gonna cost too much and would mean the whole system needs rebooting (sharp intake of breath). Thats it, straight out of the 19th century. That’s it, the best a modern regulator and it’s industry can come up with in supposedly the most advanced forward thinking industry around. To paraphrase a film, Rumour control, here are the facts. Stress, fatigue and sleep deprivation shorten your life. And we let these clowns get away with this without blowing the whistle. Like I said, it’s not entirely BA’s fault. We have the CAA for a reason and they’re failing at keeping pace with the 21st century medical and wellbeing view outside of aviation.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
The “why’s” have been hinted at by previous posters so I won’t pour any more fuel on that particular fire. Many of us hope that the recent changes at the top of BA BALPA might improve matters, but there also needs to a readjustment in attitude from some of the line membership who are perhaps still reluctant to appear to be unreasonable to friends and neighbours.
Last edited by wiggy; 11th October 2018 at 07:13.
Joined: Apr 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 307
From: In front of a computer
These roster/fatigue examples are part of the reason I retired from BA 747 longhaul at age 60 - I could have continued to 65. My problem was the relatively easy time I had over the preceding years as a 767, 777, and 747 Captain enjoying reasonable seniority and usually max 4 trips a month. As the company began to increase the pressure I should have taken part time but the 5 trips in a month 900 hours sort of took me by surprise. My last 2 years both were 900 flying hours to the minute !!
I realise this is a "golden years" sort of post but I hope new joiners realise that things have changed in BA and are likely to remain so - part time is an answer but rostering changes are really the cure. Hope JSS at least shows BA they need more flight crew.
I realise this is a "golden years" sort of post but I hope new joiners realise that things have changed in BA and are likely to remain so - part time is an answer but rostering changes are really the cure. Hope JSS at least shows BA they need more flight crew.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
From: UK
I was interested to see why I’m feeling so bushed at the min. I’ve just looked back at the past 28 days. In the previous rolling 23 day period there’s been 4 complete trips and one sim. After my next trip in the previous rolling 28 days it’ll be 5 whole trips and one sim.
Quite compact I suppose. But looking about that’s not anything unusual to other folk down the list. And my blindlines over the last 3 weeks look smiliar to how it’s been for people on reserve.
Quite compact I suppose. But looking about that’s not anything unusual to other folk down the list. And my blindlines over the last 3 weeks look smiliar to how it’s been for people on reserve.
Last edited by Wireless; 11th October 2018 at 13:30.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Under the table
I think it was effectively as dead as a Norwegian Blue once Roster Assign came in (the ability of the company to put extra work on your line after Stage 2, regardless of where you were relative to CAP) but the name was kept I think for political reasons, as in “under us you still have Bidline”.
I know which I'd prefer.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Last edited by wiggy; 11th October 2018 at 17:59.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: somewhere between Miami and Havana
Because Balpa in BA are A) Sh1t scared of the company and B) only interested in protecting the senior Long Haul boys and their terms and conditions and the rest of us can go hang (especially Short Haul as the general assumption is that nobody in BA really wants to be a Short Haul Pilot and everyone wants to be on a Long Haul fleet long term anyway so it’s an easy give away for concessions to the company). These are the reasons I won’t give Balpa a penny, go on tell me I’m wrong.
Nobody in BALPA is scared of BA; far from it, son.
Protecting Long Haul Barons? A well worn argument. We’ve got one of our most respected CC reps leaving his long haul throne to take a Short Haul command. The chairman is a flat earther. The Gatwick reps (shorthaul by definition) are beyond reproach. There’s a shorthaul captain doing awesome work for the training team and the pay team. I suppose you know better than me, though?
You don’t want to give BALPA a penny? That’s your call, dude. Feel free to ride your brothers’ coat tails. Can I assume you’ll be happy to accept the pay rise we’re currently negotiating? Does that make you a hypocrite? You decide.
Bash the company or the union with facts and you won’t hear a word from me. Go public with ill informed opinions and I’ll counter.
All - if you're hoping to join BA, please canvass opinion from all sources. It ain’t great, anymore, but it ain’t complete !!!!e, either. It’s definitely not for everyone, but it’s a step up from most places. It’s all your call.
Cheers, y’all.
Buter
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 276
Likes: 1
From: South of the North pole
Well, that’s easy enough. You re wrong. In fact, you’re wrong on a grand scale.
Nobody in BALPA is scared of BA; far from it, son.
Protecting Long Haul Barons? A well worn argument. We’ve got one of our most respected CC reps leaving his long haul throne to take a Short Haul command. The chairman is a flat earther. The Gatwick reps (shorthaul by definition) are beyond reproach. There’s a shorthaul captain doing awesome work for the training team and the pay team. I suppose you know better than me, though?
You don’t want to give BALPA a penny? That’s your call, dude. Feel free to ride your brothers’ coat tails. Can I assume you’ll be happy to accept the pay rise we’re currently negotiating? Does that make you a hypocrite? You decide.
Bash the company or the union with facts and you won’t hear a word from me. Go public with ill informed opinions and I’ll counter.
All - if you're hoping to join BA, please canvass opinion from all sources. It ain’t great, anymore, but it ain’t complete !!!!e, either. It’s definitely not for everyone, but it’s a step up from most places. It’s all your call.
Cheers, y’all.
Buter
I dont know if this is true but was told by an ex BA pilot on 777 that BA short haul is now probably the toughest gig in the UK, would you agree with that statement?
Is the pay rise happening anytime soon and will it be better than Easy, Ryanair etc?
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: uk
Well said Buter, I have always wondered how people can do nothing but moan yet at the same time not be part of the organisation that is trying, with varying degrees of success, to maintain or improve our lot. Complain about JSS... did you vote for it? No, not a manner of BALPA, ergo can’t really complain because you aren’t invested enough in the future to actually be in the recognised union take part.
Daddy. BA shorthaul is no where near the toughest gig in the U.K. For example I haven’t done a 4 sector day for a good 2 years, other than in disruption I haven’t landed after midnight for a similar time, I get fed, I stay in great hotels, I work for the company (rather than be a contractor) and thus get a good pension (yes I know it’s not what it used to be but show me one that is) etc etc etc. There is a lot of BA bashing on here, there are always a vocal few but I wonder what the feeling would be like if you went into the CRC and took a quick poll? A fair bit of dissatisfaction but what percentage of people would up sticks and move jobs..
Daddy. BA shorthaul is no where near the toughest gig in the U.K. For example I haven’t done a 4 sector day for a good 2 years, other than in disruption I haven’t landed after midnight for a similar time, I get fed, I stay in great hotels, I work for the company (rather than be a contractor) and thus get a good pension (yes I know it’s not what it used to be but show me one that is) etc etc etc. There is a lot of BA bashing on here, there are always a vocal few but I wonder what the feeling would be like if you went into the CRC and took a quick poll? A fair bit of dissatisfaction but what percentage of people would up sticks and move jobs..
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
From: UK
Interesting post wireless you could do with a holiday. The sleepy folk are of the view that the worst problem for Nigel's is that you very rarely work the same schedule, so planning rest periods get very difficult albeit each individual manages it in their own different way. So a shift worker working earlies / lates / nights or days / nights know exactly what to do as there isn't that much variety. Then Crews have to deal with TZ transitions (sorry to say EASA FTL is much better than CAP371 in this respect), jet lag, delays, commuting, other hobbies / jobs etc.
I know a lot of LH crew who have worked out that staying adapted to UK local is often needed to manage such schedules - you have to be pretty hardcore to manage this though although the rewards can be you recover in BA's time rather than your own.
I know a lot of LH crew who have worked out that staying adapted to UK local is often needed to manage such schedules - you have to be pretty hardcore to manage this though although the rewards can be you recover in BA's time rather than your own.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 276
Likes: 1
From: South of the North pole
Well said Buter, I have always wondered how people can do nothing but moan yet at the same time not be part of the organisation that is trying, with varying degrees of success, to maintain or improve our lot. Complain about JSS... did you vote for it? No, not a manner of BALPA, ergo can’t really complain because you aren’t invested enough in the future to actually be in the recognised union take part.
Daddy. BA shorthaul is no where near the toughest gig in the U.K. For example I haven’t done a 4 sector day for a good 2 years, other than in disruption I haven’t landed after midnight for a similar time, I get fed, I stay in great hotels, I work for the company (rather than be a contractor) and thus get a good pension (yes I know it’s not what it used to be but show me one that is) etc etc etc. There is a lot of BA bashing on here, there are always a vocal few but I wonder what the feeling would be like if you went into the CRC and took a quick poll? A fair bit of dissatisfaction but what percentage of people would up sticks and move jobs..
Daddy. BA shorthaul is no where near the toughest gig in the U.K. For example I haven’t done a 4 sector day for a good 2 years, other than in disruption I haven’t landed after midnight for a similar time, I get fed, I stay in great hotels, I work for the company (rather than be a contractor) and thus get a good pension (yes I know it’s not what it used to be but show me one that is) etc etc etc. There is a lot of BA bashing on here, there are always a vocal few but I wonder what the feeling would be like if you went into the CRC and took a quick poll? A fair bit of dissatisfaction but what percentage of people would up sticks and move jobs..
Does anybody have any credible information on the new pay for SH/LH at BA and when this new contract would likely happen? Easyet is paying more money I believe and from what I have read but to be honest I would not know.
BA and Easy both seem to be doing a lot of hiring which is a good thing so lets hope the money keeps getting better.
DF
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 354
Likes: 39
From: s england
Not all rosy in the garden I hear Buter.
SH Capt doing great work for the Training dept? I thought it was a LH TC doing that?
I hear a number of LH TCs are considering resigning from BALPA.
Pay rise for all ?
SH Capt doing great work for the Training dept? I thought it was a LH TC doing that?
I hear a number of LH TCs are considering resigning from BALPA.
Pay rise for all ?
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 354
Likes: 39
From: s england
DF,
Like choosing a mortgage picking an airline is a compromise.
For some EZY is a better proposition than BA for others it isn’t.
You have to think long term. For some nights in their own bed is important for others nightstopping on LH destinations is attractive. Then again some favour nights in other people’s beds.
Think long term, the hassle to swap airlines can be great. What you want today could be v different to what you want in your mid 50s.
The evidence would suggest, in the main with notable exceptions, that pilots gravitate to LH and only return to SH for a command and then go back to LH at the earliest opportunity. When considering EZY over BA whatever lifestyle suits you now or even what you think will suit you in the future may change.
The comparison of seniority numbers for commands on various fleets in BA is telling as to what the majority of people consider the best place to be is.
In BA 85% is fine ( well perhaps good)
10% is irritating/frustrating/bad
5% of it is a nightmare.
Like choosing a mortgage picking an airline is a compromise.
For some EZY is a better proposition than BA for others it isn’t.
You have to think long term. For some nights in their own bed is important for others nightstopping on LH destinations is attractive. Then again some favour nights in other people’s beds.
Think long term, the hassle to swap airlines can be great. What you want today could be v different to what you want in your mid 50s.
The evidence would suggest, in the main with notable exceptions, that pilots gravitate to LH and only return to SH for a command and then go back to LH at the earliest opportunity. When considering EZY over BA whatever lifestyle suits you now or even what you think will suit you in the future may change.
The comparison of seniority numbers for commands on various fleets in BA is telling as to what the majority of people consider the best place to be is.
In BA 85% is fine ( well perhaps good)
10% is irritating/frustrating/bad
5% of it is a nightmare.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 276
Likes: 1
From: South of the North pole
DF,
Like choosing a mortgage picking an airline is a compromise.
For some EZY is a better proposition than BA for others it isn’t.
You have to think long term. For some nights in their own bed is important for others nightstopping on LH destinations is attractive. Then again some favour nights in other people’s beds.
Think long term, the hassle to swap airlines can be great. What you want today could be v different to what you want in your mid 50s.
The evidence would suggest, in the main with notable exceptions, that pilots gravitate to LH and only return to SH for a command and then go back to LH at the earliest opportunity. When considering EZY over BA whatever lifestyle suits you now or even what you think will suit you in the future may change.
The comparison of seniority numbers for commands on various fleets in BA is telling as to what the majority of people consider the best place to be is.
In BA 85% is fine ( well perhaps good)
10% is irritating/frustrating/bad
5% of it is a nightmare.
Like choosing a mortgage picking an airline is a compromise.
For some EZY is a better proposition than BA for others it isn’t.
You have to think long term. For some nights in their own bed is important for others nightstopping on LH destinations is attractive. Then again some favour nights in other people’s beds.
Think long term, the hassle to swap airlines can be great. What you want today could be v different to what you want in your mid 50s.
The evidence would suggest, in the main with notable exceptions, that pilots gravitate to LH and only return to SH for a command and then go back to LH at the earliest opportunity. When considering EZY over BA whatever lifestyle suits you now or even what you think will suit you in the future may change.
The comparison of seniority numbers for commands on various fleets in BA is telling as to what the majority of people consider the best place to be is.
In BA 85% is fine ( well perhaps good)
10% is irritating/frustrating/bad
5% of it is a nightmare.
It also depends on stability, quality of life and of course money. I think both BA and Easy are a safe bet long term with positives and negatives to each company. Its just a case of where would one be happier and which company treats you better?
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
Well said Buter, I have always wondered how people can do nothing but moan....Complain about JSS... did you vote for it? No, not a manner of BALPA, ergo can’t really complain because you aren’t invested enough in the future to actually be in the recognised union take part.
For starters, you may not be talking about me but seeing as the context of this conversation is a rebuttal of my comments I’ll assume that you are. Where was I complaining about JSS? I actually have a suspicion for some short haulers it’s going to be better as it gets rid of the problem that in Bidline 95% of the lines are a mixture of daytrips and tours which satisfy virtually nobody. But the crux of it is that I wasn’t even allowed to vote on my future be it JSS or Bidline because I hadn’t been in the company long enough! How unjust is that? Yeah you’ve got thirty years left here but you’re not allowed to have a say in how that will go because you’ve only been here a few months.
It’s my conscious decision to have left the Union, which I am entitled to have made as a grown adult. It doesn’t deserve condescending comments like being called “son” or the seemingly resentful accusation of “riding our coattails”. I’m not going to make any further comments as to my perception of those who hide behind anonymity to talk down so severely to someone on an Internet forum, I’ll just leave it there.
Lets see just how successful the pay negotiations are, I’ll be happy to be proved wrong (and it might even sway my decision whether to rejoin or not) but I’m expecting RPI plus a bit, which in context isn’t really that much of a result, some may even say it would be subpar compared to other companies recently.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 354
Likes: 39
From: s england
Rex
I can see clearly could be in breach of the trade descriptions act.
Buter is well Buter. He may do us all some good we’ll have to wait and see.
DF,
LH is not all bad on family life. The problem is foreseeing what you will want in 20 years time when it’s too late to change.
I can see clearly could be in breach of the trade descriptions act.
Buter is well Buter. He may do us all some good we’ll have to wait and see.
DF,
LH is not all bad on family life. The problem is foreseeing what you will want in 20 years time when it’s too late to change.