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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 21st Nov 2018, 08:21
  #5321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 126
Absolutely Buter!

As hinted at before, getting a direct entry LH offer might sound like winning the lottery. However it does come with a health warning.

Having just joined the company your seniority number is at the bottom of the group, since every year there is a lot of movement from people who are unfrozen you will generally stay for at least 5 years at pretty much the bottom of the seniority list of that specific fleet before slowly starting to move up. This is because the people who move onto your fleet from other fleets in BA will have a higher seniority number. For SH since the biggest source for new pilots is external recruitment you will generally start moving up the fleet from the day you join.

Reserve points, as a new joiner you start with the lowest amount of reserve points on the fleet (people moving fleet within BA get the average amount of reserve points). On SH this spread isn't generally that large but on LH it can be. Therefor it will take longer to get a reasonable amount of reserve points. Also we have a banding system were if you have been in the company for a while you will get more points for doing a reserve period. On SH pretty much everybody is in the same (lowest) band and therefor everybody does about the same amount of reserve periods a year (after you have managed to get your points to the average after joining).

Xmas and holiday points. Once again joining LH you will find a lot of pilots during their time in the company have build up a fair amount of Xmas and holiday points. As a new joiner you start with 0 points so it will take a few years to get your points up and be able to get the holiday you want or Xmas off. On SH most are less then 5 years in the company and have relatively few Xmas and holiday points. Also on SH there are relatively few Xmas trips.

Commands / Engagement freeze. In the first 5 years of your BA career BA can do and post you where ever they like. If you are desperate for the 4 stripes all junior commands are on the Airbus 320 fleet. BA not being a charity organisation or a state airline they luckily try to control costs. Therefor they are more likely to release somebody from his/her engagement freeze for a command on type then releasing somebody from another fleet for which the course takes much longer and will include two typerating courses (the LH position needs to be backfilled). Also a warning for those who think about command early in their BA career. Your pay rise will be marginal. The reason; you are going to be the most junior skipper with very credit inefficient rosters. If you would have stayed as a FO your rosters would have been much more credit efficient which is reflected in the pay. Also as mentioned above about LH the same is true for an early command. You join a group with most in a higher band of reserve points, more holiday and xmas points. So please if you do go for that early command do so with your eyes wide open and don't start complaining once you have that command that your pay and lifestyle are bad. You bid for it, the perks didn't change and there is a reason the commands went and are going junior.

My experience in BA: My life is much more stable now than with any other airline I worked for before. Being able to bid for your roster (either JSS or Bidline) is a massive perk. However lifestyle took a hit last year being so short of pilots. Secondary terms and conditions incl Pension and LOL are better than what I had before. Most guys I fly with are very professional and for me more importantly practical. The cockpit gradient is almost flat, definitely flatter then other UK airlines I've flown for, if it is your sector you run the show. I also haven't flown with anybody who spends more then 10 minus briefing LHR (don't think I generally even get a brief longer that last longer then 5 minutes for a LHR dep/arr). Having said the exception being there are a few who are slightly harder work who did indeed mainly join as DEC a few years back, they are very friendly on a personal level but can be slightly more authoritative and like to dot the i's and cross the t's when on the flight deck.

BA might not be for everybody (I appreciate that some might rather work for Virgin and Easy, which by the sound of it are very good employers as well) but having joined BA as an experienced FO on SH a few years back I well and truly do enjoy it and wouldn't like to work for any other UK airline. For those in the selection process or thinking about applying. The selection process is hard work and can be a pain in the arse, however it is a very fair process (no age, gender, race, nationality, background discrimination what so ever as somebody hinted at before) and so worth the effort once you are allowed to go straight into Waterside (offices) instead of turning left (recruitment centre).

Last edited by Jumbo2; 21st Nov 2018 at 14:36.
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 12:13
  #5322 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Dublin
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by JulietSierra6 View Post


There is some info a bit further back in the thread.

Generally 2 sector day trips. Some tours but not that many, mostly 2 day 6 sector stuff but some longer and better layovers available. Typically in the summer expect 10-14 days off per month with the winter more like 14-18. Itís noticeably seasonal, summers a full on, winters arenít. At the bottom of the list you can expect mostly weekend work. If that isnít a problem you can get fairly good rosters.

Expect to move pretty quickly up that list, assuming recruitment continues at the forecast rate.
Thanks a lot, that was exactly the information I was looking for.
All the best
The Foss is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2018, 16:43
  #5323 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: England
Posts: 66
Hi all,
Does anyone know if there's much change in lifestyle or lifestyle progression for someone that goes into DEP Shorthaul Yr1 at LHR vs. LGW - i.e Would it take longer to see an effective change over the years at LHR over Gatwick? I understand there are more tours at Heathrow, for example, but I'm thinking more in terms of days off per month or the time it will take to not have to work every weekend of the year etc.

I know of a friend that moved LGW -> LHR at around the Yr5 mark and has now gone back to Gatwick after not enjoying the Heathrow lifestyle in comparison. I guess for someone like me, you can't miss what you never had in the first place

Can anyone also help out with this concept of reserve - It's not something we do at my current employer. On a 28-day reserve block, do you have absolutely no idea what your days off will be/is it possible to plan any remote form of lifestyle in this time or do you just have to accept it and give yourself up to work for a month? How do people find it?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 19:03
  #5324 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by GetTheQRH View Post
Hi all,
Does anyone know if there's much change in lifestyle or lifestyle progression for someone that goes into DEP Shorthaul Yr1 at LHR vs. LGW - i.e Would it take longer to see an effective change over the years at LHR over Gatwick? I understand there are more tours at Heathrow, for example, but I'm thinking more in terms of days off per month or the time it will take to not have to work every weekend of the year etc.

I know of a friend that moved LGW -> LHR at around the Yr5 mark and has now gone back to Gatwick after not enjoying the Heathrow lifestyle in comparison. I guess for someone like me, you can't miss what you never had in the first place

Can anyone also help out with this concept of reserve - It's not something we do at my current employer. On a 28-day reserve block, do you have absolutely no idea what your days off will be/is it possible to plan any remote form of lifestyle in this time or do you just have to accept it and give yourself up to work for a month? How do people find it?

Thanks in advance!
Reserve is a 28 day period made up of 5 days off before and 2 after which you will know from roster publication. The remaining 21 days are completely random and duties are assigned the day before and can be changed up to 8pm the night before the duty starts. You might be stood down for 2 or 3 days during that 21 day period but you wonít know for definite you are stood down till 8pm the night before. So to answer you question for 3 weeks itís completely impossible to plan anything! LGW is slightly different I donít know the full details of how it works there but I know the blocks are only 7 days so much shorter periods.

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Old 21st Nov 2018, 19:47
  #5325 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 403
As above but the norm now seems to be 6 on 1 off, 6 on 1 off 6 on. Some will be home standby, some will be airport standby and some will be flying. If itís really busy you may fly all of it. Exhausting but sometimes just sometime itís alright.
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 20:47
  #5326 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 126
Also you could wait until you are assigned one in the middle of the summer where you get a reserve period like bex88 describes. Or you do the smart thing, are proactive and get your reserve points up by doing a quieter reserve period in Winter which is the more civilised version with more stood down days.
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 22:00
  #5327 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: England
Posts: 66
@Enzo999 @bex88 @Jumbo2 Thanks such a helpful insight - thanks guys.
GetTheQRH is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2018, 22:34
  #5328 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Room 506
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Jumbo2 View Post
Also you could wait until you are assigned one in the middle of the summer where you get a reserve period like bex88 describes. Or you do the smart thing, are proactive and get your reserve points up by doing a quieter reserve period in Winter which is the more civilised version with more stood down days.
I really don't want to sound like a broken record, but feel that people really need to come in with their eyes open. Reserve period requests are processed (quite rightly) according to seniority. I have yet to be granted a reserve period following a bid in the "quieter" months. I imagine bidding for RSV in Dec might almost be guaranteed. Allocated in the busier summer months though is another story. So your advice is slightly misleading.

Last edited by Tricia Takanawa; 22nd Nov 2018 at 11:05. Reason: For clarity. Thanks wiggy
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 23:03
  #5329 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,494
Originally Posted by Tricia Takanawa View Post
. I imagine Dec might almost be guaranteed..
For info Reserve in December is handled under a different rule set than that used during the rest of the year - your vulnerability to Christmas reserve is based on how many Christmases you’ve been “out” in previous years......(your ‘C’ number)

14.3.6.5 if you are really interested....
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Old 21st Nov 2018, 23:31
  #5330 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 739
Reserve isnít an exact science and can be completely baffling as to the workload versus whatís expected for the time of year. I had reserve in June during the World Cup, England going great guns in the tournament, fantastic weather, critically undercrewed in the RHS, all pointing to a nightmare reserve period. In actuality it turned out to be the quietest reserve period Iíve done in my time at BA, putting my feet up in front of the Telly and the football with only four trips in the entire three weeks, the last one of which I actually phoned current ops to request as it cleared Heathrow at 07:50 on the final day of the reserve block. Go figure.
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Old 22nd Nov 2018, 11:10
  #5331 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Coventry
Age: 26
Posts: 2
BA Sim

Have the Sim on 4th Dec 0930. If anyone on this forum is the same. Send me message. Would be great to chat with you!
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Old 22nd Nov 2018, 14:22
  #5332 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 781
Originally Posted by Sampepper93 View Post
Have the Sim on 4th Dec 0930. If anyone on this forum is the same. Send me message. Would be great to chat with you.
You can message BA and have them forward your info onto your sim partner. That's what mine did to get hold of me a few years back.
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Old 22nd Nov 2018, 16:08
  #5333 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 53
VJW. They are reluctant to do that now.
Phantom4 is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2018, 17:42
  #5334 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 786
For those of you wishing to join, suggestion is in the vicinity of 300 DEPs needed in 2019, both short haul and long haul. DEPs certainly to the 777 and 787, I am guessing the 747 too but not the 350/380.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 11:41
  #5335 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,104
Just FYI, if you join BA on the 747 in 2019 there is a good chance that itíll be as a cruise pilot (initially) due to training capacity.
student88 is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2018, 12:08
  #5336 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 739
Paid the same and because you wonít be doing any two crew stuff youíll have a far easier time of it than if you were bottom of the pile on JSS disaster rosters. Whatís not to like?
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 12:49
  #5337 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,494
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Paid the same and because you wonít be doing any two crew stuff youíll have a far easier time of it than if you were bottom of the pile on JSS disaster rosters. Whatís not to like?
True,, though the destination list might be a bit err, restricted....
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 13:52
  #5338 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,104
Current three crew trips: CPT, JNB, YVR, LAX, PHX, NBO, SAN, MIA, LAS, DEN, SFO

..all heavy both ways giving you artificially higher seniority because the rest of us will be fighting over the operating seats on routes like CPT, PHX, SAN, SFO etc

So yeah, Iíd be making the most of it too!
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 15:54
  #5339 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South of the North pole
Posts: 222
Are DEP getting sent mainly to A320 or does it vary quite a lot between FO and SFO with experience?
Daddy Fantastic is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2018, 10:54
  #5340 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by student88 View Post
Current three crew trips: CPT, JNB, YVR, LAX, PHX, NBO, SAN, MIA, LAS, DEN, SFO
But don't whine about being type frozen.........
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