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Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 3rd Oct 2016, 06:36
  #3121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 52N 20E
Posts: 713
I have been trying to find current Salary scales and get directed to "Glassdoor" which actually is not very helpful or user friendly.

Anyone got other ideas of where this info is or is it top secret?
Thanks for any help in advance.
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Old 3rd Oct 2016, 08:07
  #3122 (permalink)  
nrn
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Monkey island
Age: 32
Posts: 67
We don't want Alex Cruz to find out so we keep it a secret .

Take home pay for a new FO on LH is between 3500 and 4500 gbp after tax. (Depends on how much you fly etc)
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Old 4th Oct 2016, 14:07
  #3123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 234
I know that after 3 attempts I'm just over the moon to finally be 'swimming!'
VJW, Congratulations and the very best of luck! However, what did you do differently on your third attempt?
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Old 4th Oct 2016, 14:26
  #3124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 137
BA Sim

Dear All,


I would be most grateful of any information or tips people would be willing to provide about the BA Sim assessment. PM or public post.
Just had the opportunity to attend next week become available.
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Old 4th Oct 2016, 14:32
  #3125 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 937
I passed the verbal on day 1. Was the only thing holding me up. Interview and sim both passed on first attempt
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Old 5th Oct 2016, 17:15
  #3126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,892
According to Union sources today the aforementioned business plan should be made public some time in November....

That was about the only non-controversial/good news bit of the news letter I could find....

Edit to add after rereading some more info this AM: Just be warned that following recent developments unless the union takes a stand ( and I'm sceptical) we are fast becoming " autorostered" to 900 hours per annum, ..... with little control over days off, regardless of hours worked in the month or previous month ( i.e. banked hours), Bidline is becoming a vague memory, especially for shorthaul.

Be advised that this isn't just an old f**t's grumble, of relevance to prospective DEPs is the fact is that for the first time we are hearing recent joiners starting to gripe publically (via Union and/or other comms) over hours worked/days off/roster predictability verses their previous employer - who was often a LoCo.

Last edited by wiggy; 6th Oct 2016 at 10:35.
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 15:43
  #3127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by VJW View Post
Sorry if my comment sounded sarcastic. If 2017 is a year with less recruitment than the last few years, then being told you're already swimming at the end of 2016 is a good thing isn't it? At the interview in July they told us there weren't any job's until 2017 (apart from a few A320 courses for type rated people). So I'm most definitely not worried. In fact if recruitment opens again in 2017, all the swimmers should feel confident. I doubt BA would have 500 people in the pool for only 150 positions they knew they had. What would be the point in the time and investment on their part. I know that after 3 attempts I'm just over the moon to finally be 'swimming!'

(PS. My comment was based on my own experience, having only been in the pool a month- I didn't know there are people already in the pool for 6 months or more)
Anyone have any idea how many in the pool at the moment? 500 seems a huge number - but then I have no idea.
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 19:46
  #3128 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 937
Personally I've no idea- my 500 above wasn't me trying to guess, it was more to help make a point. As you can only stay in the pool for 12 months, I think it's unlikely they'd have more in the pool now then jobs available for the upcoming year...
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 20:32
  #3129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 314
wiggy

"Be advised that this isn't just an old f**t's grumble, of relevance to prospective DEPs is the fact is that for the first time we are hearing recent joiners starting to gripe publically (via Union and/or other comms) over hours worked/days off/roster predictability verses their previous employer - who was often a LoCo."

Thank god it's not just me. I'm a relatively recent joiner and have bumped into a large number of colleagues that joined around the same time or later than me who all feel the same. Many of us at the bottom feel very let down at the moment. I've been in little over a year and yet in that time I've watched both Bidline and Fixed FPA being whipped away. And now BALPA choose to pick a fight over things that affect those on a the jumbo and trainers while highlighting in the same letter that 25% of the pilot workforce have been in 5 years or less. Unreal really. The negativity around the place is overwhelming and it's not limited to either side of the flight deck door. Many of our ground based colleagues are also feeling the pinch.

I have to say, having aspired towards and frankly worked BLOODY hard to get into BA, it's all a bit disappointing at the moment. I feel like a spoiled brat saying that while there are many on this forum who'd give their right nut for my seat. Many will undoubtedly pipe up and say "if you don't like it, leave. I'll have your job!". I accept that. But right now, with all the negativity and racing to the bottom, I miss my old LOCO job where I was home every night.

Just my totally honest two cents worth.

To those of you waiting for the magic call or even a sim slot. Please see this post for what it is and not a whinge. It's an honest appraisal of one blokes interpretation of the current situation. There are still some serious tangible benefits to joining BA but the list of benefits is dwindling fast!

Very best of luck.
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 20:50
  #3130 (permalink)  
nrn
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Monkey island
Age: 32
Posts: 67
Couldn't agree more 2 Whites 2 Reds!
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 21:09
  #3131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 818
Are you short or long haul 2W2R?

My general view as a long haul DEP is life is very good compared to Loco life and even on a blind line swapping and open time allow me a lot of control of my lifestyle. I have also received significant help with family issues I would not have had in my precious job.

Friends who ended up on the 320 however seem to be having a hell of a time of it and are almost working for a different airline.
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 21:27
  #3132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 314
Jwscud

Both, until recently. So that'll tell you what fleet I'm on. The 76 has been a great fleet and the people on it are awesome. It's like a flying club these days with 7 hulls remaining, albeit a flying club that's mostly open from 0505 til midday! (On my roster anyway)

Last edited by 2 Whites 2 Reds; 6th Oct 2016 at 21:39.
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 21:40
  #3133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 864
I commute for SH and things are not ideal but not for one moment would I say I was having a hell of a time of it. It's difficult but will hopefully get better with increased seniority. I do share the concerns though of 2W2R that the company morale is absolutely in the toilet. Nothing prepared me for that. If things start going south from here (is 900 hours per year even feasible or possible on a SH schedule out of Heathrow?? I'd hate to find out!) then I would seriously start to question my decision in coming here.

One thing that does really stick in the craw is the constant implication from management (Cruz in particular since he came in) that we need to behave as if we are in some desperate battle to survive, despite being in an overwhelmingly dominant position at Heathrow and having made over a Billion in profit in two consecutive years.

Last edited by RexBanner; 6th Oct 2016 at 21:58.
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 22:01
  #3134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 314
Rex....

I wouldn't for a minute say I'm having a hell of time of it either. The 320 guys and girls work significantly harder than me.

The culture and morale across the BA spectrum is absolutely at rock bottom, not sure whether that'll change anytime soon. If I sat here and did a proper OMA style 'Post Employment Review', I too was completely unprepared for it and find myself so so disappointed that BALPA have sold the junior folk completely down the river.

Looking forward to a new fleet in 2018, shortly followed by going on some form of part time contract to ensure a minimum level of control over my life without relying on JSS (whatever that is) or BALPA.

AGAIN....

Those prospective joiners should take this with the usual health warnings. Everyone is different and I don't regret joining but please come in bearing in mind the very significant changes in direction that are currently taking place. Some of the vastly more worldly chaps such as Wiggy etc have far more informed opinions.
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 23:01
  #3135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 47
As someone in the long haul hold pool who was recently told a short haul offer is now more likely, this definitely makes for interesting reading.

Trying to weigh up whether or not to hold out for a long haul offer has been playing on my mind over the last few days. Now hearing guys say they miss their LOCO job is definitely food for thought. Having said all of that with potentially 40 years left in the job I genuinely believe it's in my best interest to accept whatever offer comes first, get my place on the seniority list and worry about fleets later on.

There are no doubt positives to life in the LOCO's but for myself as a 'contractor' the lack of pension, LOL, holiday pay, sick pay, travel benefits and the looming potential of a command based somewhere I don't want to be, on less money (in some places) than I'm on now, doesn't make staying all that appealing.

I am most definitely not discounting the issues mentioned regarding BA short haul, merely stating for some/most it is still a great career move and arguably still one of the best jobs around. Though what that says about where we are heading is for another time.
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 23:04
  #3136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,442
If you have 40 yrs to go in the industry then a few years of BA short haul is not the end of the world.
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Old 7th Oct 2016, 06:14
  #3137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,892
Some of the vastly more worldly chaps such as Wiggy etc have far more informed opinions.
Thanks but I'm probably more Christmas crackered and cynical than worldly.....

I can't add much about lifestyle to the comments you guys who are living the shorthaul dream have posted, it ties in with comment elsewhere.

What I would say is that the management line of "we're in a fight for survival so we need cuts" has been the standard line at BA since the year dot, even when the shares were up at over 7 decades back. If we're doing well there will always be a caveat of "but looking ahead things aren't so good, so...." ...I think that is why you are seeing morale so low, because the troops feel they are always always under the cosh - and away from the waterfront some departments such as IT have already been decimated. Ultimately I don't think I've ever read or heard an unqualified "well done" from the BA head office.

As for the comments about BALPA at BA - IMHO it, or some of the hierarchy, are going to have to pee or get off the pot shortly. Bidline has been dismantled month on month in a series of small calculated steps that management know won't trigger a "call to arms", shorthaul were clobbered particularly badly by the move to EASA FTLs. I think even most of the Company council must realise that you can't solve everything by negotiation when dealing with some of those in power (who seem increasingly gung ho and are imposing changes to agreements at short notice) but it does seem that often as not a series of newsletters to the troops is the company council's weapon of choice. I'm personally not surprised the new joiners feel let down.

OTOH even the cynic in me would agree that BA can be very very good if you have a major family crisis, but the description about small problems and treacle rings true. If asked I'd still recommend Longhaul at BA, but I think shorthaul is becoming increasingly difficult to sell - other than as a route in to BA with a view of going Longhaul ASAP...which might only take a few years now but who knows what is down the road - not that long ago a few years was easily a decade.

Last edited by wiggy; 7th Oct 2016 at 08:01.
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Old 7th Oct 2016, 09:43
  #3138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 238
I have been reading some of these comments over the last few days with interest, I to joined BA fairly recently and have been slightly disalusioned by the whole experience. Whilst I enjoy not having to constantly worry about bankruptcy, restructuring or redundancies I have found myself pining over my previous life.

Don't get me wrong there are still many good points about a life at BA, but anyone thinking it's the holly grail of jobs needs to stop and think very carefully.

I personally think if you are close to command at one of the LCCs you are by far better off staying, "personal opinion"!
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Old 7th Oct 2016, 10:39
  #3139 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 937
How about going from a poor loco to having a choice of BA shorthaul or Easy DEC?!
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Old 7th Oct 2016, 10:56
  #3140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 818
I took BA over an imminent command at Ryanair and would do so any day of the week. I far prefer moaning about BALPA to "working" for an airline with no union representation. Battles with management over rosters and T&Cs are hardly unique to BA. The whole experience of going to work (LHR embuggerance and driving half the M25 included) is significantly better than anything I had at FR.

Wider morale within the organisation isn't great, and the holy grail it certainly isn't, but I would still describe the job as first among equals. If you have no desire ever to do LH and you are at EZY say, consider carefully. If you are at Ryanair, I'd jump at the chance. If you just want longhaul Virgin is just as good an option, better in some ways given their lower annual hour limit and beach fleet options.
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