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Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 7th Oct 2018, 17:35
  #5101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Age: 78
Posts: 3,685
I can't understand the modern desire to be home every night. I used to like being away and believed in the adage that absence makes the heart grow fonder.
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Old 7th Oct 2018, 20:46
  #5102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by nrn View Post
It's more like around 4k on longhaul if you're lucky.. Not sure about the 5 year figure as I've only been in for 3 years
nrn you must be using host a LOT if youíre lucky to take home £4K after 3 years on LH. Iím a Short Hauler in the company a similar amount of time to you and even in quiet months Iím taking home £4K easily. Is your tax code correct?
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Old 7th Oct 2018, 21:11
  #5103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dark side of the Moon
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by JW411 View Post
I can't understand the modern desire to be home every night. I used to like being away and believed in the adage that absence makes the heart grow fonder.
I can't understand old the adage that absence makes the heart grow fonder. I prefer to be home every night.
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Old 7th Oct 2018, 21:16
  #5104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 105
Any guys/gals in BA know if a pay rise is due?

Asking as Jet2 have upped pay from what my mate says his take home is more than BA during summer.

Also heard BA CityFlyer are upping pay.


Last edited by AIMINGHIGH123; 7th Oct 2018 at 22:45.
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 04:41
  #5105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK.
Posts: 152
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
..........Also heard BA CityFlyer are upping pay.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but in reply:
There is rumour about BACF upping pay but nothing confirmed. We recently had two surveys thrown at us, one BALPA and one company re pay. Our current pay deal is until July 2019. There are also many more rumours going around BACF. Most laughable.
Too many people at BACF hear a rumour and then spout it as fact, often claiming first hand knowledge. Most do not materialise!! One fleet manager loves to gossip.
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 06:43
  #5106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,494
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Any guys/gals in BA know if a pay rise is due?
Last three year deal expired April this year, talks with the company are due so talks about the talks have been rattling along for some time on the in-house forum...

BA are making a massive profit, bonuses all round for the upper echelons so I’m expecting RPI plus not a lot for the pilots if history repeats itself, though TBF the Union is now operating under different management so who knows. As this forum’s existence demonstrates BA has not historically had a problem attracting pilots or retaining them though there are signs things might be changing.

The management POV is since BA still runs a seniority pay scale most pilots get a pay rise every year ..
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 07:31
  #5107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 75
BA bonus

yeah I couldnít believe the Bonus (if you can even call it that) we got ! Almost like a sick joke from the guys at the top !!
Just about sums up BA to be honest
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 07:57
  #5108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 403
The pay question is a good one. BA’s incremental pay scale means you get about 2.3% per year. The issue is that when these scales were bought in SH commands were around 12 years. With the improved terms at RYR, EZY, Jet2 etc a command on SH at BA is not well rewarded for new commands. The gulf is huge. 78k to 148k for doing the same job!!? Let’s not point the finger at the top because that’s not the issue. The issue is how far behind the lower end of the pay scale has fallen away. I would hope that is addressed to at least match the low cost carriers....after all “Gap to market” was a favourite phrase from management until recently.

Another way way to look at it is that any increase is enjoyed by the tax man more than the pilot. Healthcare for the family would be very welcome. That’s just my view talking for myself and I know little of LH or FO pay etc. What I do know is our ex bmi colleagues should get flight pay and I feel some of our FO’s are dreadfully underpaid for any overtime that they do. It is time we were less of a push over. Yes invest in our future, but we invest for our future whilst the shareholders etc take now and tomorrow there is never any reward as we must invest again.

My take home home pay is static if not less than it was a few years ago.
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 09:12
  #5109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 105
I am going through the process at the moment and yes BA have never been short of applicants, but what about retention in the last few years? I know everyone is working hard at the moment but salary’s are improving. BA have to do something decent.

Last edited by AIMINGHIGH123; 8th Oct 2018 at 09:23.
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 09:40
  #5110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,079
People are leaving BA. Of course there are those who retire and those who lose their medicals etc, but there is a small flow of people who decide BA is not for them. Some of these come from LH and some come from SH. I know directly of 2 FOs who decided the 744 in BA was not for them and quit to return to their previous employers. I’ve heard of a couple who got their command on SH and who’ve left to earn a lot more cash. I’m not sure how it was 10+ years ago, but BA certainly isn’t what it used to be. That said, I would rather look at the sun through a pair of binoculars than return to my previous employer (Jet2). But, everyone is different....
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 10:46
  #5111 (permalink)  
nrn
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Monkey island
Age: 31
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post


nrn you must be using host a LOT if youíre lucky to take home £4K after 3 years on LH. Iím a Short Hauler in the company a similar amount of time to you and even in quiet months Iím taking home £4K easily. Is your tax code correct?

Sorry thats a PP1 take home pay with minimal HOST and no overtime. Iím a TCP right now so Iím not sure how that compares to a PP4 line pilot. But right now itís a lot more but that is because I do an extra sim every now and then.

With regards to the upcoming pay negotiations, Iím expecting the BACC to push for an absolute massive payrise. We all winge about lifestyle, but when you compare us to EasyJet we are lacking behind in cold hard cash. Right now weíre making a shit tonne of money and I bet you the company is going to hide behind BREXIT this time next year. The time is NOW!

the reality will probably be slightly different though....
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 11:29
  #5112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 75
Thing that annoys me is that for all the years in SH BA, the saving grace for me and many of my colleagues and friends was getting on to the LH fleet . Here I am 3 years on the 787 and Iím working my ass off (I know we have a few grounded that is helping the high workload) , LUCKILY Iím on pp24 but still the temptation to leave is overwhelming , I feel that we are a somewhat neglected workforce , 2 applications in with 2 other companies.
rant over
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 11:55
  #5113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 105
Some interesting posts here and I agree totally with nrn. If things are delayed until after Brexit it will be too late. For me I am a 15 minute drive from T5 or 30 mins on tube so LHR and BA massively suit from a commute point of view saving time and miles on the car. Money isn’t everything but with packages offered at EZY, TUI etc it is tempting. If everyone is working at the same level it’s natural to then look at remuneration.
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 12:26
  #5114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,494
Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post
Thing that annoys me is that for all the years in SH BA, the saving grace for me and many of my colleagues and friends was getting on to the LH fleet . Here I am 3 years on the 787 and I’m working my ass off (I know we have a few grounded that is helping the high workload) ..
I'm curious so I have to ask - I'd agree the BA Long Haul lifestyle probably beats SH hands down but what sort of workload were you expecting on Long Haul....?

I’m afraid the days of coming to BA Long Haul for rest have long gone, certainly if you are a trip line holder on a full time contract...and I suspect JSS might make it worse.



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Old 8th Oct 2018, 12:35
  #5115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


I'm curious so I have to ask - I'd agree the BA Long Haul lifestyle probably beats SH hands down but what sort of workload were you expecting on Long Haul....?

Iím afraid the days of coming to BA Long Haul for rest have long gone, certainly if you are a trip line holder on a full time contract...and I suspect JSS might make it worse.


I guess you are right , I shouldíve had my eyes open
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 13:28
  #5116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 737
Wiggy whilst I agree that JSS is less than desirable I think thereís a lot of scaremongering going on regarding its introduction. As a grass is greener individual casting ďenviousĒ eyes at some of the long haul rosters on iBid it has to be said that it escapes me how JSS could fit any more work onto the lines on Long Haul. Weíve already got tripline holders doing six east coasts in a month. Everybody is doing upto 900 hours a year, they physically cannot do any more so how is JSS going to make that any more efficient? The annual days off entitlement will remain the same too (I think I heard someone voting for JSS because weíd in fact get more annual days off?)

The inescapable conclusion for me is itís not even about money as such, itís the fact that to gain any semblance of lifestyle in BA nowadays you have to go part time. That is absolutely not just and itís high time the workload was addressed. It wonít be of course.
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 14:37
  #5117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Here and there
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Everybody is doing upto 900 hours a year, they physically cannot do any more so how is JSS going to make that any more efficient?
Thatís not a true statement. You show me a blind line holder logging 900 hours a year, and iíll show you a pilot doing lots of overtime.
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 14:49
  #5118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by Bloodhound Loose View Post


Thatís not a true statement. You show me a blind line holder logging 900 hours a year, and iíll show you a pilot doing lots of overtime.
weíre splitting hairs now. Yes it may not be 100% accurate that everyone is doing 900 hours but take a look at most triplines on long haul for anyone who is full time and you show me where JSS is going to fit in another trip with the same number of days off.
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 15:13
  #5119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post

weíre splitting hairs now. Yes it may not be 100% accurate that everyone is doing 900 hours but take a look at most triplines on long haul for anyone who is full time and you show me where JSS is going to fit in another trip with the same number of days off.
Under Bidline junior long haul pilots have picked up less popular trips and worked almost every weekend, but they have done less flying than trip line holders, simply because the remaining uncovered work at the final stage of blind line construction could not be assigned more efficiently.

One of the big gains of JSS for BA is that this inefficiency will be removed. The junior pilots will fly the unpopular trips, work almost every weekend AND work as hard as the senior pilots.

BA is a long term bet. Anyone age 40+ thinking of joining should consider very carefully how their career is likely to develop. Historically they are likely to wait about 18-20 years for a long haul command at which time the move to the bottom of a seniority list will lead to a pretty dreadful lifestyle...who wants that in their late 50s? Many BA SFOs have stayed in the right hand seat to preserve their lifestyle even before the implications of JSS became apparent.
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Old 8th Oct 2018, 15:22
  #5120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Here and there
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post

weíre splitting hairs now. Yes it may not be 100% accurate that everyone is doing 900 hours but take a look at most triplines on long haul for anyone who is full time and you show me where JSS is going to fit in another trip with the same number of days off.
RexB,

Your Point is well made ref tripline holders. However, I donít see the BL issue as ďsplitting hairsĒ.

It varies by fleet/status and month, but I reckon a good 20% of the company are on blindlines. If, for example, you have 2 BL holders flying 600 hours a year and, next year, through JSS, you can get them to 900 hours a year, then youíve effectively generated an additional pilot with no increase in pilot numbers.

This thread is aimed at new joiners who would have been low hours blindline pilots.

Anyway, to go back to your original point, you were struggling to see how JSS could squeeze more out of the workforce. You see the answer now?
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