BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
From: UK
Sorry to chime into your reply. You make some points that are very good to respond to. If you don’t mind me asking, you sound quite new to LH?
The problem is...some things are just not tradeable commodities. And selling ourselves as such under a Faustian bargain is terribly misguided however well meant in eagerness to display positivity. Its like catnip to business owners. We really shouldn’t help them line our early boxes. Between them and the regulators they already think Pilots cry wolf about lifestyle and stress and can be bought out by a new jumbo, a few dollars and a half baked FTL scheme. Non of us are Egyptian Faroes. We can’t take that stuff with us.
New equipment, nice destinations. All tend to be currency amongst people very new to LH. It’s no accident they rarely feature in the dailies of folk doing it a few years. Is that any coincidence? Ask why. It is no accident.
I’d venture further, if their personal life, and health balance is safe, then those of course can be a source of side pleasure. But they are not trade-able, and in many of us those little extras become eclipsed very quickly by more pressing issues.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
Likes: 9
From: UK
It's a shame to be losing bidline, but frankly if JSS can produce rosters any worse than those I've had as a P2 on the airbus this summer, I'll be quite impressed. I agree though, BA do need to be careful. If the seniority gradient really does go as vertical as it seems it may, not only will they lose their ability to attract people (arguably happening now anyway), they'll start bleeding pilots as well.
Supercharged PPRuNer
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 15
From: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Long haul, around 3 years in, and previous experience with Exeter Airlines and the Middle East.
BA is far from perfect, but life so far has been pretty gentlemanly – helped in recent months by some of my fleet’s work being picked up by others. However, my JSS dry run roster was utterly, utterly horrific. 6 trips, 12 days off, minimum rest between trips and East, West, Middle East, you name it.
It looked horribly like an Emirates / Qatar / Flydubai roster, and if the real JSS rosters are anything like that, I’d be fatigued with a month – two months tops. I really hope I’m proved wrong, but I suspect there’s a rostering horror show coming down the track.
BA is far from perfect, but life so far has been pretty gentlemanly – helped in recent months by some of my fleet’s work being picked up by others. However, my JSS dry run roster was utterly, utterly horrific. 6 trips, 12 days off, minimum rest between trips and East, West, Middle East, you name it.
It looked horribly like an Emirates / Qatar / Flydubai roster, and if the real JSS rosters are anything like that, I’d be fatigued with a month – two months tops. I really hope I’m proved wrong, but I suspect there’s a rostering horror show coming down the track.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
On my second most recent mixed fleet trip whilst passing the time in idle chit chat (“what did you do before BA....”) we discovered that our forward galley team’s qualifications were as follows:
One M. Phil Mathematics (Oxbridge) then the City.........
One B.Sc Maths
One B.Sc Economics (which according to her made her “the thick one” out of the three.......)
Last edited by wiggy; 23rd October 2018 at 21:13.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
No one knows that for a fact yet. A third of the airline didn't even bid in the last JSS run and the parameters they're using are apparently changing every time. A good proportion of the people I fly with don't even understand how to bid properly. Surely it's little wonder some of the rosters aren't what they could/should be - even for those further up the list..
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
As you rightly say the non bidders were rostered (? Fallback) so the bidders didn’t get loaded up artificially, though the trips the non bidders got and spacing thereof might have been sub optimal (in their eyes) to some extent.
I suspect for the first few months those who have got their heads round the system will do well and some of the junior pilots will I’m sure profit from the ignorance of some above....however I reckon by Easter or not long most of us (even me) will have grasped enough of the basics to make i decent stab at a bid and that’s when we’ll be seeing how JSS vs, seniority really shakes out.
I suspect for the first few months those who have got their heads round the system will do well and some of the junior pilots will I’m sure profit from the ignorance of some above....however I reckon by Easter or not long most of us (even me) will have grasped enough of the basics to make i decent stab at a bid and that’s when we’ll be seeing how JSS vs, seniority really shakes out.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
efarto
I always find it entertaining when people swap from short haul to long haul and tell me how easy long haul is, be that from within the company or as a DEP. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; 99% of fresh long haulers feel like you. They recover almost overnight from the extreme tiredness they felt on short haul, and they enjoy having a bit of time off down route and visiting the new destinations. They hardly even notice the time changes and the nights out of bed because they are not long term fatigued and they never have been. We have all been there!
A couple of years of long haul punishment under JSS and I guarantee you will change your tune.
I always find it entertaining when people swap from short haul to long haul and tell me how easy long haul is, be that from within the company or as a DEP. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; 99% of fresh long haulers feel like you. They recover almost overnight from the extreme tiredness they felt on short haul, and they enjoy having a bit of time off down route and visiting the new destinations. They hardly even notice the time changes and the nights out of bed because they are not long term fatigued and they never have been. We have all been there!
A couple of years of long haul punishment under JSS and I guarantee you will change your tune.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
.Funny thing about mixed Fleet is you get extremes...lots obviously aren’t that long out of school (I gather our first lot with d.o.b’s of 2000 are on line.. g** I feel old.....ooh, that’s cos I am
) OTOH it has given the opportunity for some who have had long careers in completely different fields to basically take a career break and travel the world for a year or two...it can make for some interesting conversations.....and yes, I completely agree with your point about Longhaul and how the fatigue builds.
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 163
Likes: 18
From: London
Given all the negativity regarding lifestyle and health, what is the overall advice here? Is this a caution regarding the early years with light at the end of the tunnel, or is the suggestion not to join at all? Asking as a concerned potential joiner.
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: London
I would say if you join , do so with your eyes wide open !!
It is still a good company to work for , BUT it is going down hill rapidly !
The light at the end of the tunnel was always the LH life ! But that has long gone
It is still a good company to work for , BUT it is going down hill rapidly !
The light at the end of the tunnel was always the LH life ! But that has long gone
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
Likes: 9
From: UK
Which makes it worse - you don't even benefit from the time off down route. I suppose I'm just amazed that BA have managed to engineer an environment where they can work people to the absolute bone and ensure they're too afraid to dig their heels in and say no.
Riskybis - would you say yours is a common view of BA long haul?
Riskybis - would you say yours is a common view of BA long haul?
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: London
Which makes it worse - you don't even benefit from the time off down route. I suppose I'm just amazed that BA have managed to engineer an environment where they can work people to the absolute bone and ensure they're too afraid to dig their heels in and say no.
Riskybis - would you say yours is a common view of BA long haul?
Riskybis - would you say yours is a common view of BA long haul?
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: UK
For balance, I really liked the sample roster JSS gave me and I'm still nearer the bottom of the pile than the top. I hope it wasn't a fluke and will reflect my rosters going forward. One drawback for me with Bidline has always been that the trip lines of work are too mixed up (e.g. half a dozen early day trips in the first half of the month followed by a late four day tour and then a few more day trips and then maybe a standover or a night Moscow), ultimately satisfying nobody's preferences for the types of work they like doing. The very few lines that are genuinely brilliant lines will get snapped up by the top two or three guys on the list and everyone else is left to compromise to some extent. And the only way to subsequently get rid of the stuff you don't want is by swapping with other people. Most guys (and girls) I fly with have preferences for particular things, and (weekends off excluded) it seems there are more or less enough of those "things" to go around (day trips for the day trippers, tours for the tourers etc).
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: UK