Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 10th Mar 2019, 14:25
  #6101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 564
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. BA works purely on market forces. They don’t care about employee morale or particularly much about what BALPA thinks either. In the last financial year for the company, they have closed the FSS pension and have announced an additional dividend to the shareholders which is pretty much identical to the sum of money saved by the closure. They have no problem at all with taking money from anyone who will let them, and giving it to their shareholders. Current pilots collectively allowed the company to raid their pensions and close bidline for JSS, and new joiners will allow the company to take £18k from them. When they’ve been doing that for a while, I expect internal pilots will have to pay for aspirational type courses. And so it will continue until individuals stop applying and start leaving in excessive numbers. Until that day, we’ll have more and more of our money redirected to the shareholders. They take as much as they can get away with from the customer, and they take as much as they can get away with from the employee. It is that simple.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2019, 14:59
  #6102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by Stocious View Post
Starting salary is mid 30s for SSP payscale which has been in existence for quite a few years now, long before I joined. Goes up pretty quickly though.
The difference of course is that SSPís used to join with their TR paid for by BA so the reduced salary was arguably fair enough. Now the TR cost is paid upfront and the pilot does not catch up to DEP pay until year 5 on the PP34 scale.

GS-ALPHA. Spot on.
The Mixmaster is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2019, 15:08
  #6103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 275
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
Reversethrust - the same argument was made years ago by current Ryanair pilots to new hires paying 30k for their TR. How did that work out?
It didn't work at all; why? Because they were prepared to pay it. The point is if people don't pay it the scheme won't exist. The obvious issue is people are always prepared to pay it so until they dry up the scheme will remain.
Reversethrustset is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 14:33
  #6104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: England
Posts: 3
I will be doing the sim assessment fairly soon. Applied under one of the DEP FO ZFT campaigns last year, there has never been a mention of having to fund a TR. Is this only going to be applicable to the new CPL/IR campaign??
Jason Derulo is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 00:36
  #6105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 183
Yes it is.
Stocious is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 21:37
  #6106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 82
14 leaving to KLM - another 6 awaiting sim assessment
8 this month to Easy
No shows at interviews
`Unable to fill slots......
People are beginning to smell the coffee........
red9 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 21:41
  #6107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by red9 View Post
14 leaving to KLM - another 6 awaiting sim assessment
8 this month to Easy
No shows at interviews
`Unable to fill slots......
People are beginning to smell the coffee........
Finally...
MikeAlpha320 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 23:45
  #6108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 View Post
Finally...
Me being one of them.

6k+ in various large aeroplanes, plus other vaguely exotic stuff and previously worked in similar cultures. Did stages 1-3 last time around before accepting something else. Applied recently again on a whim but the thought of going through the hassle of 3x trips to LHR at considerable expense to do the same rubbish I previously managed, alongside the clusterf*ck of equal opportunies BA HR, made me realise I just couldnít. Not for a c.£55k basic and mediocre pension to (likely) sit RHS in a 320 out of LHR working every weekend until the kids have left school, sat next to a 26 year old #BAsmart. Frankly the thought was akin to being repeatedly stabbed in the knackers with a blunt pair of scissors. (N.b I do appreciate most at BA are decent guys and gals).

Shame, once upon a time Iíd have sold my Gran to work for BA.

That grumble aside though, in my opinion it is the best designed recruitment process out there. If you get through it you obviously meet their standards and you really, really want to work for BA. Iím evidently not that person. The process seemingly works well... Fair enough!

Last edited by FRYVA; 15th Mar 2019 at 20:23.
FRYVA is online now  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 01:07
  #6109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Approaching TOMBI
Posts: 8
Hi everyone. Managed to work my way through the last two years of this thread and got a lot of answers but if someone could help me out with just a couple of questions I would be very grateful. I have focused on LH questions as this is all I would be prepared to accept even if that meant not joining at all. Please don't view this as arrogant but as I am sort of happy where I am, it is a case of only taking what would work for me.

Pay:
  • Do the newer pay scales still make it a financially viable move to join BA in your mid 20s with the view to remain on a LH fleet?
  • What would a 10-15 year LH FO be expecting to make?
Commuter Specific:
  • Do people literally set up shop in London for 21 days of reserve?
  • Any hope of getting home between trips while on reserve if on LH?
  • Given the apparent crack down, are commuters still finding they can commute and still maintain a sustainable lifestyle?
  • Is there a minimum number of days off between trips?
  • In terms of practicality, can staff travel be used for commuting?
New rostering system:
  • Is it still possible to swap duties to get some sort of favourable roster?
  • As a commuter would you stand any chance of binning your standbys for a flying duty to save a possible wasted trip?

General Lifestyle on LH fleet:
  • Any junior guys who are happy? Commuters in particular?
  • Are trips a sense length?
  • Do BA have a sensible approach to 3 and 4 person crews on long sectors to at least mitigate some fatigue?
  • Is the cockpit gradient reflective of the relatively high experience levels of FO's whether that be those just joining the company or those who have been in the company 15-20 years? Will be given a decent amount of responsibility for your sector and do people find that enough to make up for a long time to command?
Moral: (A difficult one, I know)
  • Is the general level of moral as low as it seems on here? Do BALPA run a survey or anything that would provide some numbers on how the workforce is feeling?
Benefits:
  • Is the staff travel still as good as it was? Could I plan a holiday months in advance and still get some benefit (Cheaper or premium cabin)?
  • Good package for Loss Of License and Income Protection?

If anyone could take a stab at answering any or all of these, it would be absolutely invaluable so thank you in advance.
Justanothervoice is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 01:12
  #6110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland
Age: 35
Posts: 66
Iíve always found the BA recruitment process a little bit strange tbh. Very set in their ways, I feel there is no scope for example saying ďwell he didnít have the best interview, but he seems like a nice guy so lets see how he gets on in the simĒ.

I remember running into a guy who was once in the holding pool for them, ended up drowning. Applied again and didnít get through the interview, seems to make little sense to me.

That said, my initial airline had an incredibly long winded recruitment process and I saw loads of good guys get canned during that process also. I think like most things, if comes down to how you feel on that particular day and a large degree of luck of the draw in relation to interviewers and sim checkers etc.
DDobinpilot is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 03:42
  #6111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 658
So do we think they will improve the T&Cís or just lower the standards? Answers on a postcard to Waterside......
hunterboy is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 05:46
  #6112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 515
Originally Posted by red9 View Post
14 leaving to KLM - another 6 awaiting sim assessment
8 this month to Easy
No shows at interviews
`Unable to fill slots......
People are beginning to smell the coffee........
can I ask where you get this info from? I can only see a total of 7 people leaving this month of which 3 are retirees.
OBK! is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 09:30
  #6113 (permalink)  
nrn
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Monkey island
Age: 31
Posts: 67
I personally know 4 whom have left BA to KLM. With me being nr 5 in June. I have the feeling there are more than that. Looking at iBid there are a fair few Dutch names leaving
nrn is online now  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 18:54
  #6114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 183
Good for them I say.
Stocious is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 19:12
  #6115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Speaking from my own personal experience, the Tís & Cís on offer at BA, along with the Ďfringe benefitsí far outweigh that of my previous employer.

So for some of us, the move is definitely a positive.

Just my two cents though.
rossbaku is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 19:26
  #6116 (permalink)  
NLP
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Ibid does not show everyone who's leaving. It does not show RT on my roster and did not happen to my mate who left last November. I would say 20 guys/girls leaving for KLM is probably pretty close.
NLP is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 20:22
  #6117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
Struggling with the accuracy description of a “mediocre” pension too, tell me where you’re going to find better in the UK now given that pretty much all final salary schemes are now closed in all industries, not just ours? In that context, it’s actually pretty decent.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 20:32
  #6118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Struggling with the accuracy description of a ďmediocreĒ pension too, tell me where youíre going to find better in the UK now given that pretty much all final salary schemes are now closed in all industries, not just ours? In that context, itís actually pretty decent.
VS and pre 2015 TCX for a start, granted the later no longer available to new joiners.

I do take your point, ďmediocreĒ is perhaps a little flippant but for somebody leaving either of the above, as but two examples, itís a definite backward step and probably not industry leading if you already have your feet under the table elsewhere. But yes, I would agree fairly decent in this day and age in the context of UK airlines.

Last edited by FRYVA; 15th Mar 2019 at 20:42.
FRYVA is online now  
Old 16th Mar 2019, 09:56
  #6119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 711
Virgin has exactly the same company contribution as the new BA scheme so its on par not better. Not only that but they (VS) want to remove this benefit to new joiners. Thomas Cook as you said not available any more either, so whatever you think of the BA pension, you’re not going to find anything better as a new joiner anywhere nowadays. I do take your other points though, BA isn’t for everyone, I’ve wrestled with the decision whether to leave myself over the last few months, I’m staying put and the only reason for that is Long Haul. Short Haul (whilst I’ve already said it’s not as bad as many make out on here) there are better options out there nowadays.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2019, 13:39
  #6120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 165
Virgin hasn't removed anything for new joiners!
A320baby is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.