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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 9th Mar 2019, 13:35
  #6101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,207
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Has it been confirmed that new recruits have to pay £18k for A320?
AFAIK the only “new recruits” paying 18k are those joining on the newly announced “newly qualified” pilot scheme (e.g. straight out of the likes of L3), not the DEP route....
wiggy is online now  
Old 9th Mar 2019, 15:18
  #6102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 676
Give Klaus time...
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 17:40
  #6103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


AFAIK the only “new recruits” paying 18k are those joining on the newly announced “newly qualified” pilot scheme (e.g. straight out of the likes of L3), not the DEP route....
That is sad to hear.

What ever next!!!!
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 22:37
  #6104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 10
For what it's worth, when I joined my first commercial outfit (and this wasn't that many moons ago!), we were bonded for £15k, payable up front before commencing the type rating, albeit paid back in 36 monthly instalments...

The starting salary at that outfit plus the bond I paid was still significantly less (I'm talking greater than £10k) than the starting salary these new pilots would earn in their first year at BA.

Just my "two cents", but I don't see the problem with the £18k up front given the starting salary. A very controversial viewpoint I'm sure but sadly its the nature of the industry. I can't think of many another professions out there that requires you to pay up front to get the job.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 22:45
  #6105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 200
Worth pointing out the starting salary for those paying for TR is significantly less (about £20k less) than experienced DEP starting salary. There’s simply no justification for this. IAG get a reduced flight ops budget and pilots take it up the tailpipe while shareholders laugh all the way to the bank.

Last edited by The Mixmaster; 10th Mar 2019 at 13:50.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 06:12
  #6106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
Worth pointing out the starting salary for those paying for TR is significantly less (about £20k) than experienced DEP starting salary. There’s simply no justification for this. IAG get a reduced flight ops budget and pilots take it up the tailpipe while shareholders laugh all the way to the bank.
How has this been allowed?
How does that work with 34 point scale?

BALPA obviously firing on all cylinders at the moment. They haven’t done much at our outfit either.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 10:40
  #6107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 262
It's quite simple, a message to all those wannabes, don't pay it, it'll soon disappear. The only reason these schemes exist is because people are prepared to pay it.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:40
  #6108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 200
Reversethrust - the same argument was made years ago by current Ryanair pilots to new hires paying 30k for their TR. How did that work out?
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 13:07
  #6109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 30W
Age: 99
Posts: 109
Do they pay £18k upfront and get the money back after a period of time, similar to NLH bond, or is this paying for a type rating?

Starting salary of £20k?!
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 13:12
  #6110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 177
Starting salary is mid 30s for SSP payscale which has been in existence for quite a few years now, long before I joined. Goes up pretty quickly though.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 13:25
  #6111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 550
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. BA works purely on market forces. They don’t care about employee morale or particularly much about what BALPA thinks either. In the last financial year for the company, they have closed the FSS pension and have announced an additional dividend to the shareholders which is pretty much identical to the sum of money saved by the closure. They have no problem at all with taking money from anyone who will let them, and giving it to their shareholders. Current pilots collectively allowed the company to raid their pensions and close bidline for JSS, and new joiners will allow the company to take £18k from them. When they’ve been doing that for a while, I expect internal pilots will have to pay for aspirational type courses. And so it will continue until individuals stop applying and start leaving in excessive numbers. Until that day, we’ll have more and more of our money redirected to the shareholders. They take as much as they can get away with from the customer, and they take as much as they can get away with from the employee. It is that simple.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 13:59
  #6112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by Stocious View Post
Starting salary is mid 30s for SSP payscale which has been in existence for quite a few years now, long before I joined. Goes up pretty quickly though.
The difference of course is that SSP’s used to join with their TR paid for by BA so the reduced salary was arguably fair enough. Now the TR cost is paid upfront and the pilot does not catch up to DEP pay until year 5 on the PP34 scale.

GS-ALPHA. Spot on.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 14:08
  #6113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 262
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
Reversethrust - the same argument was made years ago by current Ryanair pilots to new hires paying 30k for their TR. How did that work out?
It didn't work at all; why? Because they were prepared to pay it. The point is if people don't pay it the scheme won't exist. The obvious issue is people are always prepared to pay it so until they dry up the scheme will remain.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 13:33
  #6114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: England
Posts: 3
I will be doing the sim assessment fairly soon. Applied under one of the DEP FO ZFT campaigns last year, there has never been a mention of having to fund a TR. Is this only going to be applicable to the new CPL/IR campaign??
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 23:36
  #6115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 177
Yes it is.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 20:37
  #6116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 71
14 leaving to KLM - another 6 awaiting sim assessment
8 this month to Easy
No shows at interviews
`Unable to fill slots......
People are beginning to smell the coffee........
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 20:41
  #6117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by red9 View Post
14 leaving to KLM - another 6 awaiting sim assessment
8 this month to Easy
No shows at interviews
`Unable to fill slots......
People are beginning to smell the coffee........
Finally...
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 22:45
  #6118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 View Post
Finally...
Me being one of them.

6k+ in various large aeroplanes, plus other vaguely exotic stuff and previously worked in similar cultures. Did stages 1-3 last time around before accepting something else. Applied recently again on a whim but the thought of going through the hassle of 3x trips to LHR at considerable expense to do the same rubbish I previously managed, alongside the clusterf*ck of equal opportunies BA HR, made me realise I just couldn’t. Not for a c.£55k basic and mediocre pension to (likely) sit RHS in a 320 out of LHR working every weekend until the kids have left school, sat next to a 26 year old #BAsmart. Frankly the thought was akin to being repeatedly stabbed in the knackers with a blunt pair of scissors. (N.b I do appreciate most at BA are decent guys and gals).

Shame, once upon a time I’d have sold my Gran to work for BA.

That grumble aside though, in my opinion it is the best designed recruitment process out there. If you get through it you obviously meet their standards and you really, really want to work for BA. I’m evidently not that person. The process seemingly works well... Fair enough!

Last edited by FRYVA; 15th Mar 2019 at 19:23.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 00:07
  #6119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Approaching TOMBI
Posts: 8
Hi everyone. Managed to work my way through the last two years of this thread and got a lot of answers but if someone could help me out with just a couple of questions I would be very grateful. I have focused on LH questions as this is all I would be prepared to accept even if that meant not joining at all. Please don't view this as arrogant but as I am sort of happy where I am, it is a case of only taking what would work for me.

Pay:
  • Do the newer pay scales still make it a financially viable move to join BA in your mid 20s with the view to remain on a LH fleet?
  • What would a 10-15 year LH FO be expecting to make?
Commuter Specific:
  • Do people literally set up shop in London for 21 days of reserve?
  • Any hope of getting home between trips while on reserve if on LH?
  • Given the apparent crack down, are commuters still finding they can commute and still maintain a sustainable lifestyle?
  • Is there a minimum number of days off between trips?
  • In terms of practicality, can staff travel be used for commuting?
New rostering system:
  • Is it still possible to swap duties to get some sort of favourable roster?
  • As a commuter would you stand any chance of binning your standbys for a flying duty to save a possible wasted trip?

General Lifestyle on LH fleet:
  • Any junior guys who are happy? Commuters in particular?
  • Are trips a sense length?
  • Do BA have a sensible approach to 3 and 4 person crews on long sectors to at least mitigate some fatigue?
  • Is the cockpit gradient reflective of the relatively high experience levels of FO's whether that be those just joining the company or those who have been in the company 15-20 years? Will be given a decent amount of responsibility for your sector and do people find that enough to make up for a long time to command?
Moral: (A difficult one, I know)
  • Is the general level of moral as low as it seems on here? Do BALPA run a survey or anything that would provide some numbers on how the workforce is feeling?
Benefits:
  • Is the staff travel still as good as it was? Could I plan a holiday months in advance and still get some benefit (Cheaper or premium cabin)?
  • Good package for Loss Of License and Income Protection?

If anyone could take a stab at answering any or all of these, it would be absolutely invaluable so thank you in advance.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 00:12
  #6120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland
Age: 35
Posts: 66
I’ve always found the BA recruitment process a little bit strange tbh. Very set in their ways, I feel there is no scope for example saying “well he didn’t have the best interview, but he seems like a nice guy so lets see how he gets on in the sim”.

I remember running into a guy who was once in the holding pool for them, ended up drowning. Applied again and didn’t get through the interview, seems to make little sense to me.

That said, my initial airline had an incredibly long winded recruitment process and I saw loads of good guys get canned during that process also. I think like most things, if comes down to how you feel on that particular day and a large degree of luck of the draw in relation to interviewers and sim checkers etc.
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