BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 74
From: UK
Rex
At the moment, a senior 747 pilot can do 4 high credit 3 day trips and be pretty much at CAP, or 5 and exceed it by some margin, or they can do 4 x 4 day trips and be at CAP. A junior pilot does 6 low credit 3 day trips and is still hovering just below CAP, or alternatively, the company fail to squeeze the 6 trips on their line so they are left considerably below CAP. Theoretically, spreading out the high and low credit density a bit more would make the workforce as a whole more efficient, because the company could get more people to CAP more regularly. Whether JSS will do this to the most senior pilots remains to be seen, but there will likely be a seniority level where pilots no longer get the same average credit density as they once did, and this will enable the average credit density of the junior pilots to improve. Of course they will most likely still be doing 6 x 3 day trips, but I suspect their average credit density will improve, which will mean their annual hours will increase.
I will be one of those junior Captains before long so I have a part time request in, because without it, I don’t think I’ll be able to accept the command. It is madness that in order to take the promotion, I feel it necessary to go part time and end up earning less than I currently do, but we are where we are. I am not prepared to reduce my lifespan for any employer.
At the moment, a senior 747 pilot can do 4 high credit 3 day trips and be pretty much at CAP, or 5 and exceed it by some margin, or they can do 4 x 4 day trips and be at CAP. A junior pilot does 6 low credit 3 day trips and is still hovering just below CAP, or alternatively, the company fail to squeeze the 6 trips on their line so they are left considerably below CAP. Theoretically, spreading out the high and low credit density a bit more would make the workforce as a whole more efficient, because the company could get more people to CAP more regularly. Whether JSS will do this to the most senior pilots remains to be seen, but there will likely be a seniority level where pilots no longer get the same average credit density as they once did, and this will enable the average credit density of the junior pilots to improve. Of course they will most likely still be doing 6 x 3 day trips, but I suspect their average credit density will improve, which will mean their annual hours will increase.
I will be one of those junior Captains before long so I have a part time request in, because without it, I don’t think I’ll be able to accept the command. It is madness that in order to take the promotion, I feel it necessary to go part time and end up earning less than I currently do, but we are where we are. I am not prepared to reduce my lifespan for any employer.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Well this makes for depressing reading. Anyone who is considering a junior command, I can tell you don’t touch it with a barge pole. As soon as my freeze is up I’ll be going RHS LH or if the company allows, part time and I’ll keep the command. The only way I have coped is because blindlines work me less but I’ll be dammed if I am going to work to the level of a trip line holder and take all the crap.
Current ops are not respecting our scheduling agreement and have given me some shocking duties. When I questioned it the response was “it’s legal” yep but not under bidline rule.......
Current ops are not respecting our scheduling agreement and have given me some shocking duties. When I questioned it the response was “it’s legal” yep but not under bidline rule.......
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
I’m still sceptical Bex, after all if JSS is going to be so incredibly efficient and able to work us to within an inch of our lives, then why are we right now embarking on another massive recruitment drive (I’m told 2019 will be possibly a new record for numbers)? There aren’t that many people retiring.
(oh by the way see you in the sim soon!)
(oh by the way see you in the sim soon!)
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 74
From: UK
Well for one, JSS has to work within bidline rules whereas Final Assign does not. Also, I think there will be quite a few people retire in 2019 and 2020. BA has been barely coping to cover the work even with three years of bidline rule alleviation’s. Suddenly those alleviations will be gone (hopefully not to be replaced with new ones). There’s a lot of catching up to do to establish the correct pilot numbers.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 0
From: UK
Rex, scheduling reps have confirmed that under JSS a pilot on an 85% part time contract could still do 5 x Lagos (or Accra or Kuwait or similar trips) per month. Thats a fact.
Take a look at the 747-400 rosters, some pilots are already flying more than 6 trips a month. Shocking but true. No wonder sickness and fatigue reports are rocketing...one day the company may even acknowledge that a floating body clock and multiple night out of bed seriously affects a pilot's health, short term and long term.
Take a look at the 747-400 rosters, some pilots are already flying more than 6 trips a month. Shocking but true. No wonder sickness and fatigue reports are rocketing...one day the company may even acknowledge that a floating body clock and multiple night out of bed seriously affects a pilot's health, short term and long term.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Also following increasing complaints and following the stalwart efforts of one individual in particular some in authority outside BA are now looking at BA’s handling of those who go sick....
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 98
Likes: 11
From: UK
As someone who is considering applying to Ba this year to look for an airbus command over the next 2 years, would this be a good bet? I’m not interested in LH, already done enough of that. What I’d like to know is what sort of working pattern a new SH FO or CPT have and whether you get any choice over base at interview/ offer time. Can anyone help me with this?
someone said, BA is a long term bet, is it worth the move financially and career wise for someone mid40s who has the hours for command but wants out of the northern bucket and spade outfits?
any pm welcome too.
someone said, BA is a long term bet, is it worth the move financially and career wise for someone mid40s who has the hours for command but wants out of the northern bucket and spade outfits?
any pm welcome too.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: Uk
NG708. You would be mad to join BA for SH only and a quick command. You will work nearly every weekend working the inefficient trips others don’t want. You will be paid less than that of a captain at both EZY and RYR. On top of that three months of the year you will be on reserve so are at the companies back and call for 28 days at 2hrs notice. Under JSS you could expect to work 18-20 days a month as a junior captain to make cap. The only bit in the above that is an assumption is JSS the rest is first hand info as reliable as you will get. Quick commands are never certain
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: somewhere between Miami and Havana
I am mid thirties with young kids and been having doubts. I think I might be too old to take full advantage of a career with BA.
I have been bit later to aviation than some, career change guy, or my other plan with my age is to just go to EK for 10 years be flogged to death then come back and go EZY or someone like that.
I would love to try long haul, and hope if i get in to BA I can try it. From what I gather it’s possible to go to LH and if it’s not for you go back to SH? Obviously not straight away.
Im at a crossroad just weighing up options.
I have been bit later to aviation than some, career change guy, or my other plan with my age is to just go to EK for 10 years be flogged to death then come back and go EZY or someone like that.
I would love to try long haul, and hope if i get in to BA I can try it. From what I gather it’s possible to go to LH and if it’s not for you go back to SH? Obviously not straight away.
Im at a crossroad just weighing up options.
You may get offered long haul or short haul, depending on what they’re short of on the day. Apparently, at the moment, you get offered a job once and once only. Your choice.
if you accept a seat on one of our fleets you will be there for for 5 years unless the company wants to move you. That includes long haul back to short haul.
EK for 10 years? You outta your f’ing mind?
Best of luck, dude!
Buter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: somewhere between Miami and Havana
Rex, scheduling reps have confirmed that under JSS a pilot on an 85% part time contract could still do 5 x Lagos (or Accra or Kuwait or similar trips) per month. Thats a fact.
Take a look at the 747-400 rosters, some pilots are already flying more than 6 trips a month. Shocking but true. No wonder sickness and fatigue reports are rocketing...one day the company may even acknowledge that a floating body clock and multiple night out of bed seriously affects a pilot's health, short term and long term.
Take a look at the 747-400 rosters, some pilots are already flying more than 6 trips a month. Shocking but true. No wonder sickness and fatigue reports are rocketing...one day the company may even acknowledge that a floating body clock and multiple night out of bed seriously affects a pilot's health, short term and long term.
Regards
Buter
3.5.4.3, by the way...
Last edited by Buter; 9th October 2018 at 01:26.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
The coffee hasn’t kicked in yet so I may be resistant to detail but a quick 1 minute skim read of iBid final rosters shows at least one 744 P1 with 6 trips completely contained within October, though the individual is so far above CAP they may have deliberately loaded their line up or have been RA’d. It certainly looks like Bidline rule 3.5.4.3 hasn’t been “deployed” or wasn’t in play for some reason.
Even if it’s the case that you don’t ever have to do a 6 trip month there are certainly some who do and for many 5 trips will be the norm on at least some of the Longhaul Fleets, which I suspect may come as a surprise to a few of our readers and prospective joiners.
ATB..
Last edited by wiggy; 9th October 2018 at 09:13. Reason: Getting rid of blank space at bottom..blame iPad.
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Scanning down just the first 36 names on the 747 captain's status list there are 3 pilots with 6 whole trips in October (one of those also has an additional carry in trip). There is also one with 5 complete trips and 2 days in the sim.
Many of those 36 pilots are part time.
Many of those 36 pilots are part time.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 32
From: France
Bex88 said:
Just to clarify, the first 7 days of the 28 days reserve are normally ‘fixed days off’. One can elect to work during those days (excepting the final two) but BA can not assign any trips.
NG708: I was 42 when I joined BA, having had 10 years in GA and 10 years in 737 UK Charter Ops (including 8 years in command). I joined onto the 747 fleet and spent 14 happy years there. Then 5 years A320 LHS and now LHS on the 787.
As my BA experience spans the last 20 years, it’s difficult to give advice because the situation is now different but I just wanted to point out that it worked for me.
On top of that three months of the year you will be on reserve so are at the companies back (sic) and call for 28 days at 2hrs notice.
NG708: I was 42 when I joined BA, having had 10 years in GA and 10 years in 737 UK Charter Ops (including 8 years in command). I joined onto the 747 fleet and spent 14 happy years there. Then 5 years A320 LHS and now LHS on the 787.
As my BA experience spans the last 20 years, it’s difficult to give advice because the situation is now different but I just wanted to point out that it worked for me.
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
I am mid thirties with young kids and been having doubts. I think I might be too old to take full advantage of a career with BA.
I have been bit later to aviation than some, career change guy, or my other plan with my age is to just go to EK for 10 years be flogged to death then come back and go EZY or someone like that.
I would love to try long haul, and hope if i get in to BA I can try it. From what I gather it’s possible to go to LH and if it’s not for you go back to SH? Obviously not straight away.
Im at a crossroad just weighing up options.
I have been bit later to aviation than some, career change guy, or my other plan with my age is to just go to EK for 10 years be flogged to death then come back and go EZY or someone like that.
I would love to try long haul, and hope if i get in to BA I can try it. From what I gather it’s possible to go to LH and if it’s not for you go back to SH? Obviously not straight away.
Im at a crossroad just weighing up options.
It would normally be necessary to stay 5 years in long haul before going to short haul if long haul does not work for you. An exception may be made if you can make a strong case to move earlier or if it is in BA's interests. Overall BA pilot managers have normally been very reasonable and considerate, but the whole company is under constant pressure to continuously cut costs.
Good luck with your decision.
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: England
320 course in January
Hey guys and girls, just wondering if there’s anyone on here that’s starting the 320 typerating on the 7th of Jan? We’re trying to get a watsapp group going before the whole thing starts. Send me a pm if you want.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: UK
Ladies and Gents, speaking as someone who is in the current DEP recruiting round, I'd like to say thanks for the all the posted info, even if it does make for slightly depressing reading. I'm early 40s, soon to be ex Mil and am now wondering whether BA is not going to give me the life/work balance I'm after, especially as money is not the be all and end all.
I have a solid job offer with a stable 6 on, 5 off roster. I now have a lot of thinking to do as to whether BA is the answer I thought it once was.
I have a solid job offer with a stable 6 on, 5 off roster. I now have a lot of thinking to do as to whether BA is the answer I thought it once was.
