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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 4th Mar 2019, 19:14
  #6081 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 274
this is not France, so BALPA cannot call for e.g. a wildcat strike or selective withdrawal of training to stymie the company’s recruiting plans?
No but they could call a ballot and start the process of (perfectly legal) industrial action if they wanted. Doing nothing is a not a result of UK strike law, it's a decision made by pilots and their union representation. Tbh the reality is an 18k type rating is probably not top of the list of grievances, they'll still have cadets queuing round the block. But yet again it's an example of new entrant terms being lowered with seemingly no protest.

I don't work in aviation (unfortunately) but I know that if my company decided to make all new graduates pay upfront for their own training, they'd a) have no applicants and b) cause a riot amongst current staff. Why the same logic doesn't apply in the airlines is beyond me.

Last edited by ManUtd1999; 4th Mar 2019 at 21:03.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 03:50
  #6082 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 592
How do you call a strike for pilots that haven’t joined the company yet? Once they sign on the dotted line and accept the t&c’s, including the 18k fee, how do you justify industrial action for something the NEP has just accepted? If BA charged existing pilots for the type rating I could see legally justifiable motive for I.A. In short, caveat emptor.
‘Incidentally, with the 5 year type freeze, arguably pilots are paying for their type rating indirectly.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 04:09
  #6083 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 200
Man Utd - agreed. Surprising how most are so quick to throw hands up and say nothing can be done. If a ballot for industrial action were to be called on this issue along with other outstanding issues it could be quickly sorted. Talk of wildcat strikes or mass sickouts a la France is a hysterical comparison. Work to rule over peak summer period anybody?

Sadly is doesn’t sound like the will is there to resolve this issue and BA wil take the chisel and chip away at something else next. This profession is being hugely let down by the “I’m alright Jack” attitude.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 05:03
  #6084 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 592
ManU, so rioting aside, what else would you and your fellow staff colleagues do to protect the T&C’s of people that haven’t yet signed on the dotted line and therefore don’t have T&C’s to protect?
There seem to be a lot of key board warriors on PPRuNe nowadays. I’d be interested to know the % of them that have put an X on a strike ballot and how many have actually walked.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 06:17
  #6085 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by zero/zero View Post
People can …stop volunteering for #BASMART
Ah. Problem here. The Twitter brand ambassadors have spent the last week claiming the modular route now being open is a win - no mention of up front type rating costs.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 06:37
  #6086 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,208
Originally Posted by Right Engine View Post


Ah. Problem here. The Twitter brand ambassadors have spent the last week claiming the modular route now being open is a win - no mention of up front type rating costs.
Yep, if posters think all the members of the instagram brigade and similar are going to listen to calls to stop volunteering they are naive- they have a lot invested in portraying the whole lifestyle in a positive light.

There is a similar problem with the work to rule idea (plus it is very difficult to remain cohesive since it is easy for a company to pressure individuals) which is why the three Unions involved at BA seem to be headed in a particular direction.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 06:55
  #6087 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 200
There are over 4000 pilots in BA? If BALPA balloted on a work to rule you would always have the social media heroes and the like doing their own thing. But you would have a significant majority working to rule. Don’t underestimate the impact that can have on a company’s bottom line.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 07:29
  #6088 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,208
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
There are over 4000 pilots in BA? If BALPA balloted on a work to rule you would always have the social media heroes and the like doing their own thing. But you would have a significant majority working to rule. Don’t underestimate the impact that can have on a company’s bottom line.








TBH over the years the Reps, former lot or this current tranche, have always maintained a work to rule would be ineffective...define “work to rule for” starters..even issuing a call for people not to volunteer has it’s risks....If you have the chance when next in T5 grab a passing rep and ask about this, it is interesting...and TBH amongst other things it gives you a bit of a depressing insight into human nature, (well, some people’s nature).

Now....back to the new qualified pilot scheme...looking at Yammer rightly or wrongly there are some non-flight Ops employees with relatives wanting to get into BA who see the new scheme as a good thing (somebody in the family can obviously afford the 18k)..so no doubt many outside BA also see it as a good thing.....which brings into play (again) the point that BALPA campaiging against this scheme would be used by some to demonstrate how out of touch “we” are with those that want to join the industry as pilots.

Looking at what might be coming down the road later this year at BA I’ll certainly go with the Union, but IMHO running a single issue campaign over the new entrant scheme is simply a non starter and is not going to work.

Last edited by wiggy; 5th Mar 2019 at 07:43.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 09:18
  #6089 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


TBH over the years the Reps, former lot or this current tranche, have always maintained a work to rule would be ineffective...define “work to rule for” starters..even issuing a call for people not to volunteer has it’s risks....If you have the chance when next in T5 grab a passing rep and ask about this, it is interesting...and TBH amongst other things it gives you a bit of a depressing insight into human nature, (well, some people’s nature).

Now....back to the new qualified pilot scheme...looking at Yammer rightly or wrongly there are some non-flight Ops employees with relatives wanting to get into BA who see the new scheme as a good thing (somebody in the family can obviously afford the 18k)..so no doubt many outside BA also see it as a good thing.....which brings into play (again) the point that BALPA campaiging against this scheme would be used by some to demonstrate how out of touch “we” are with those that want to join the industry as pilots.

Looking at what might be coming down the road later this year at BA I’ll certainly go with the Union, but IMHO running a single issue campaign over the new entrant scheme is simply a non starter and is not going to work.

As I outlined above make it a multi issue campaign. Take your pick. Yes there are individuals who will disregard results of a ballot. Even if just 50% of the body adhered to a work to rule then the leverage created would be significant. The alternative is to do nothing and watch the chisel continue to chip away at t and c.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 10:06
  #6090 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 83
Looking at what might be coming down the road later this year at BA I’ll certainly go with the Union, but IMHO running a single issue campaign over the new entrant scheme is simply a non starter and is not going to work.
[/QUOTE]


What might be be coming later this year Wiggy? Being a junior 320 skipper, I find it hard to believe this gig can actually get any worse??
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 10:12
  #6091 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,208
Originally Posted by frozenpilot View Post
What might be be coming later this year Wiggy? Being a junior 320 skipper, I find it hard to believe this gig can actually get any worse??
I was referring to the current pay round and any action that the Union decide might be required....
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 10:30
  #6092 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 83
Ah.... At least us junior trash may get some weekends off... albeit unpaid!

regards
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 18:20
  #6093 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 274
looking at Yammer rightly or wrongly there are some non-flight Ops employees with relatives wanting to get into BA who see the new scheme as a good thing (somebody in the family can obviously afford the 18k)..
If you have 18k lying around it's an outstanding scheme. You could almost see that price tag as a positive as it will reduce the competition

More seriously, I'm not denying that opening up BA to modular cadets is generally a good thing. I just wish they hadn't done it in a way which discriminates based on financial background. BA used to be one of the few airlines who thought talent was more important than the abiity to pay. This and the last version of the cadet scheme would suggest they now think otherwise. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and the recruitment team will manage to get an improvement in the future, but that seems unlikely.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 19:42
  #6094 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Doha
Age: 8
Posts: 374
Won’t be long before you’re having L3 cadets on poor pay even after line checked.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 20:04
  #6095 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by frozenpilot View Post
What might be be coming later this year Wiggy? Being a junior 320 skipper, I find it hard to believe this gig can actually get any worse??
Is BA your first gig as a commercial pilot? Because I can tell you it can get worse!
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 04:44
  #6096 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dirty South
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by ManUtd1999 View Post
I just wish they hadn't done it in a way which discriminates based on financial background. BA used to be one of the few airlines who thought talent was more important than the abiity to pay. This and the last version of the cadet scheme would suggest they now think otherwise.
Indeed.

B.A. Management should come up with a catchy name for the £18K course. Perhaps ‘Return of the Nigels’ would work ? Or, ‘Revenge of the Nigels’. ‘Klaus’s M.O.’ would only make sense to a small number of people, and it’s not very catchy.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 07:48
  #6097 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 83
Nope, it’s my fifth... I’ve been through numerous redundancies. However, a junior short haul command at BA is terrible..
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 12:08
  #6098 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Straight Outta Compton
Posts: 17
The other problem with Work To Rule at BA is... what's the rule? The psychedelic maze that is Bid Line Rules (BLR) is very hard to navigate without taking a wrong turn. Individuals would be exposing themselves to dismissal far too easily.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 17:45
  #6099 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 34
Rumour that 767 has been sold and BA may revert to 744 sim.Just for info for those awaiting assessment.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 13:15
  #6100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 32
Has it been confirmed that new recruits have to pay £18k for A320?
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