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Old 3rd Oct 2015, 14:52
  #1941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Here & there
Posts: 9
Hi Rex
Interested to know where you heard that there are people in the hold pool without the requirements for a ZFTT course? Meeting these requirements through either minimum hours or sectors was needed to apply, as I'm certain you are aware, so it would surprise me if this was the case. Besides the requirements aren't that demanding, especially the sector requirement.

I'm also interested in knowing what the "October shakeup" is all about, has anyone got anymore information on this?

Cheers
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Old 4th Oct 2015, 06:27
  #1942 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,164
Approaching Minima

I'm also interested in knowing what the "October shakeup"
I suspect it's reference to nothing more sinister or earth shattering than the results of the first "Crystal" run being announced (actually it is pretty significant if you don't get what you want...). That's the computer process that amongst other things churns out the results from the summer bid for internal transfers and AFAIK the list of who is probably going to get what is due end of Oct. The results of that give a clue as to the scale of movement between fleets/seats next training year and might give an indication of the scale of external recruiting.

GS-Alpha

Agree 100% with the sentiments expressed in your previous post. I know some pretty p'd off folks on short haul who had their move to a Long Haul seat blocked last year despite them having the required hours/experience. I am also aware that the main reason given for this was a lack of training capacity, which is down to the company, not the union. Even so I'm not sure the union reps will be able to hold the line for another year if people continue to feel their aspirational move from short haul to long haul is being blocked and they then see DEPs going straight to Long Haul seats.

Last edited by wiggy; 4th Oct 2015 at 08:13.
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Old 4th Oct 2015, 06:51
  #1943 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 835
There have been a few mentions recently of "an October shakeup" and how it's something people are waiting for. As I am not sure what this exatly refers to could someone please explain?

Is it something that happens every October?
The "shake up" does indeed happen every year. It is the first output of Crystal. This is not just a process of asking people where they would like to go next, crunching the numbers and determining who is going where. The most important part of the process is the bit where Network Planning and the financial people get together and determine what they would like to achieve next year, what assets they have to achieve their plan and that determines the manpower requirement. Crystal is then run and that shows where people want to go, they "guess" at retirements and other losses like ill-health retirements and the program allocates moves and shows the required recruitment and training slots available. BA will always recruit direct onto LH rather than release an internal freeze as that generates additional training costs.
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Old 4th Oct 2015, 07:40
  #1944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL370
Age: 33
Posts: 229
Interested to know where you heard that there are people in the hold pool without the requirements for a ZFTT course? Meeting these requirements through either minimum hours or sectors was needed to apply, as I'm certain you are aware, so it would surprise me if this was the case. Besides the requirements aren't that demanding, especially the sector requirement.
Although all of the DEPs come with previous commercial experience and thus can do a ZFT course, we also have plenty of men and women joining from the forces in the hold pool, along with the FPP cadets, all of whom need to do base training.
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Old 4th Oct 2015, 08:29
  #1945 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: landan
Posts: 120
Emb

Not all forces people need to do base training. A large proportion ie coming from multi Eng fleets are ZFT compliant.
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Old 4th Oct 2015, 08:39
  #1946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Here & there
Posts: 9
I see, that explains things. Thanks!

Hopefully all of us in the hold pool will have some news over the coming months then, following the 'shake up'.

Good luck to everyone!
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Old 4th Oct 2015, 08:39
  #1947 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 670
Hi guys, deleted my previous posts as its clear they were a bit misleading and caused a bit of confusion with possibly the wrong terminology used. The situation that I was alluding to was that I was led to believe that you needed 3000 hours (including 1000 Jet) to go onto a long haul fleet with ZFT training, which many in the pool don't have. So just that if you're joining with more experience than that you might be surprised, that's all. Anyway I stand to be corrected.

Last edited by RexBanner; 4th Oct 2015 at 09:03.
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Old 4th Oct 2015, 09:11
  #1948 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,078
The 2011 intake are all unfrozen next year. There's a whole load of Airbus F/Os waiting to go long haul as they can't take the relentless nature of short haul any longer, partly due to the BALPA agreed change to the duty-rig. There are 80 FPPs finishing training, and there's only one fleet they can join.

Denying unfrozen F/Os their place on LH isn't going to go down well.
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Old 4th Oct 2015, 09:20
  #1949 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 769
80 FPPs? I though they only took 15-20/year or something like that?
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Old 4th Oct 2015, 09:48
  #1950 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 544
The initial FPP plan was for 400 over 5 years.

Your last post is a lot clearer Rex thanks. I think all a future more experienced candidate can conclude is that people already in the hold pool will not go to long haul ahead of them. However, I don't think they can say they'll get a long haul place ahead of an unfrozen apirational bidder. The bottom 1/5th of the 747 are new DEPs as it is!
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Old 5th Oct 2015, 10:37
  #1951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Close to minimums
Posts: 20
It must be hard for the airline to balance the business needs for recruitment and also try to meet the fleet transfer requests from the existing pilot workforce. Are this and next year's numbers of 300+ pilots to be recruited each year so extraordinarily high that inevitably less fleet transfers will be granted? The training capacity and costs are too great, surely? Or is BA considered large enough to absorb these extra costs?

What is written in a BA pilot's contract regarding fleet transfer? I assume there is no guarantee after 5 years of having any request granted.
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Old 5th Oct 2015, 11:35
  #1952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,164
I assume there is no guarantee after 5 years of having any request granted.
Correct, don't join assuming you will be definitely be able to move fleets after 5 years. You may possibly be able to, but there are absolutely no guarantees.

Last edited by wiggy; 5th Oct 2015 at 14:07. Reason: deleting ing
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Old 5th Oct 2015, 13:35
  #1953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 344
After five years, you're guaranteed to be unfrozen and free to bid. That's it.
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Old 5th Oct 2015, 22:20
  #1954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: On the side of the pitch!
Age: 42
Posts: 494
Having said all this some of us were wavered from our 5 year freeze this year, I now occupy the left seat and love it!
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 05:22
  #1955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,164
Having said all this some of us were wavered from our 5 year freeze this year,
Another example of the truth of the old adage that gets trotted out at annual bid time of "always bid what you want, regardless of any freezes, never bid for something you don't want".

I suspect (as possibly has happened to Sinbin ) I benefited from being at the front end of a recruitment bulge and other peoples inertia. Less than 2 years into BA I escaped from the 747 Classic fleet to a new but initially unpopular fleet . Others just senior to me delayed bidding off by a year and ended up stuck on a fleet with a deteriorating lifestyle for over a decade, or went to shorthaul......

In a nutshell assume freezes will be applied, and also assume that if you are junior and are trying to bid off an unpopular fleet and on to a popular fleet(s) you're going to struggle to move, regardless of being out of freeze.... but always bid.

Last edited by wiggy; 6th Oct 2015 at 06:24.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 19:24
  #1956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 769
An update for you all on what was said at the roadshows this week:

- Looking again for around 300-350 pilots next year

- 81 FPPs and currently around 70 in the DEP hold pool

- They expect to start allocating courses again at the end of the month and expect to empty the pool within 2 months of starting to offer courses

- DEP to long haul slots disappeared quickly to early entries this year, they expect the same in 2016

Should hopefully cheer up those of us swimming...
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 19:54
  #1957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Here & there
Posts: 9
Juscud,
That does sound very optimistic!

Thanks for sharing the info
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 20:15
  #1958 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 11
nice bit of info... thanks for that Jwscud!
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 21:17
  #1959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 33
Attended the roadshow today. It was well structured very informative and the team made us all feel really at ease and welcome.
Came away from the roadshow feeling very positive and upbeat about future recruitment and the recruitment process in general.
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 16:48
  #1960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hundred Acre Wood
Posts: 244
Judging by the banner ad I've seen on other parts of this forum, it would appear that BA are trying to attract train drivers...
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