BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat
Controversial, moi?
egbt
You post illustrates the frustration that flight crew face with so much of the operation. The example you quote is not so much incompetence on the part of engineering but more an indication of the pressure under which they work due to the continual cost cutting to the point where the operation suffers.
BA still suffers from many legacy issues, gross overmanning, above average Ts & Cs for the majority of staff and many, many working practises which have no place in the present. Instead of tackling the difficult issues, which is basically what the latest diispute is about i.e. bringing the CC into the real world, cutting costs in every other area of the operation has been the norm and in 99% of cases has gone so far as to severely damage our reputation as an airline.
As a passenger you have noticed, and from comments to me from other passengers, so have most regular travellers. I think that fact has finally been noticed on high but bringing our unacceptable cost base under control is a necessity to enable us to once again offer a desirable product.
To give some more examples of the cost cutting stupidity we, as crew, have bright yellow cardboard labels tied to our suitcases to identify the crew bags because they are handled differently from passenger bags. Some bright spark reduced the former robust quality of the labels (each label able to be used for eleven flights). The new thinner labels tear off and are lost after just one or two flights.
You also mention the quality of food, you would not believe the pig swill loaded for crew. I rarely now eat crew food and generally self cater. I won't mention the often 45 minute wait for the crew bus once we have finished our duty (often after having had to wait for buses to collect our passengers in the first place).
If WW succeeds in bringing BA staff into the current century I fervently hope that we can once again concentrate on regaining the reputation we have so badly squandered in recent years.
You post illustrates the frustration that flight crew face with so much of the operation. The example you quote is not so much incompetence on the part of engineering but more an indication of the pressure under which they work due to the continual cost cutting to the point where the operation suffers.
BA still suffers from many legacy issues, gross overmanning, above average Ts & Cs for the majority of staff and many, many working practises which have no place in the present. Instead of tackling the difficult issues, which is basically what the latest diispute is about i.e. bringing the CC into the real world, cutting costs in every other area of the operation has been the norm and in 99% of cases has gone so far as to severely damage our reputation as an airline.
As a passenger you have noticed, and from comments to me from other passengers, so have most regular travellers. I think that fact has finally been noticed on high but bringing our unacceptable cost base under control is a necessity to enable us to once again offer a desirable product.
To give some more examples of the cost cutting stupidity we, as crew, have bright yellow cardboard labels tied to our suitcases to identify the crew bags because they are handled differently from passenger bags. Some bright spark reduced the former robust quality of the labels (each label able to be used for eleven flights). The new thinner labels tear off and are lost after just one or two flights.
You also mention the quality of food, you would not believe the pig swill loaded for crew. I rarely now eat crew food and generally self cater. I won't mention the often 45 minute wait for the crew bus once we have finished our duty (often after having had to wait for buses to collect our passengers in the first place).
If WW succeeds in bringing BA staff into the current century I fervently hope that we can once again concentrate on regaining the reputation we have so badly squandered in recent years.
BA Cabin Crew Strike
FL, thanks again for your post.
As you may have gathered, I have little direct involvement in the current dispute, between the BA Cabin Crew & Management, except often travelling as `walking freight`.
Please be assured, I have absolutely no desire at all to see either BA as an airline suffer, or the Cabin Crew in particular.
However would you not agree, that over the past few years, the once justifiably proud name of BA & all it stood for, gained largely through the efforts of it's workforce, has been squandered (as M Mouse rightly suggests), to the level of almost an `also ran?. The Speedbird logo & also later on the BA logo, always used to stand for a highly professional airline, who always got the job done & was highly respected by the travelling public worldwide.
In my opinion, a series of silly needless disputes, spats, plain bad administration etc, has led to catering problems, check in difficulties, loss of passengers baggage, apparent `your only the passenger` attitude! & this has left many pax with little option, other than to take their business elsewhere for good.
Some years ago I was involved with the Australian Pilot's dispute, they thought they could win & their own Union advised them so, I would suggest the final outcome was rather different. It would give me no pleasure at all to see BA or the Cabin Crew go down the same road. In such a dispute as this surely, the Staff can't win, the Passengers certainly can't win & it will lead to an increasing loss of goodwill to BA as a whole.
Come on folks, get it sorted!
As you may have gathered, I have little direct involvement in the current dispute, between the BA Cabin Crew & Management, except often travelling as `walking freight`.
Please be assured, I have absolutely no desire at all to see either BA as an airline suffer, or the Cabin Crew in particular.
However would you not agree, that over the past few years, the once justifiably proud name of BA & all it stood for, gained largely through the efforts of it's workforce, has been squandered (as M Mouse rightly suggests), to the level of almost an `also ran?. The Speedbird logo & also later on the BA logo, always used to stand for a highly professional airline, who always got the job done & was highly respected by the travelling public worldwide.
In my opinion, a series of silly needless disputes, spats, plain bad administration etc, has led to catering problems, check in difficulties, loss of passengers baggage, apparent `your only the passenger` attitude! & this has left many pax with little option, other than to take their business elsewhere for good.
Some years ago I was involved with the Australian Pilot's dispute, they thought they could win & their own Union advised them so, I would suggest the final outcome was rather different. It would give me no pleasure at all to see BA or the Cabin Crew go down the same road. In such a dispute as this surely, the Staff can't win, the Passengers certainly can't win & it will lead to an increasing loss of goodwill to BA as a whole.
Come on folks, get it sorted!
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Market Rate
During negotiations with my company, Market Rate has been quoted many times. We are measured against our direct competetors (charter) in all grades. Give or take 5%, the pay is the same across the big four. the skill is trying to get to have the plus side of all the 5% into your T and C's.
If you look at BA, in all departments and all grades, most are paid at least, but mainly more than the market rate. Their is nothing wrong with this, if the quality of staff that you have, bring the profit into the business, that offsets the extra cost. Its Asda to Waitrose. Is WW looking for the most cost effective way of delivering the BA product, or delivering the product the most effective way?
Another problem with BA have, over most of the other airlines that I have seen in the UK, is turnover rate. At BA, their is a obviously well defined and very well paid career path for cabin crew, both on and off the aircraft. It may be slow, but it is their. Is he bothered about this? Every year their will be a new pool of potential cabin crew leaving education and wanting to see the world. I imagine their a fair few school leavers who dream of working for BA, but not that many who dream of working for TUIfly?! Do you actually need a 20 year CSD or 10 year purser? Virgin are making a fortune as a business, and its about six years to CSS and say 10 to IFS. Most people agree that the Virgin product is excellent. The difference between these products is like comparing the Ritz to China Whites. The thing is, their will always be a market for Ritz passengers.
It is a brave battle BASSA are taking on. WW would have been mandated to fix the cost of cabin crew and he will do or he will fail. But if he fails, I am sure there are a few protections drawn into his contract; protections that the average employee does not have.
Still, I am on the side of the CC, as BA are making loads of cash and I feel that they do deliver a great product. Only time will tell though.
If you look at BA, in all departments and all grades, most are paid at least, but mainly more than the market rate. Their is nothing wrong with this, if the quality of staff that you have, bring the profit into the business, that offsets the extra cost. Its Asda to Waitrose. Is WW looking for the most cost effective way of delivering the BA product, or delivering the product the most effective way?
Another problem with BA have, over most of the other airlines that I have seen in the UK, is turnover rate. At BA, their is a obviously well defined and very well paid career path for cabin crew, both on and off the aircraft. It may be slow, but it is their. Is he bothered about this? Every year their will be a new pool of potential cabin crew leaving education and wanting to see the world. I imagine their a fair few school leavers who dream of working for BA, but not that many who dream of working for TUIfly?! Do you actually need a 20 year CSD or 10 year purser? Virgin are making a fortune as a business, and its about six years to CSS and say 10 to IFS. Most people agree that the Virgin product is excellent. The difference between these products is like comparing the Ritz to China Whites. The thing is, their will always be a market for Ritz passengers.
It is a brave battle BASSA are taking on. WW would have been mandated to fix the cost of cabin crew and he will do or he will fail. But if he fails, I am sure there are a few protections drawn into his contract; protections that the average employee does not have.
Still, I am on the side of the CC, as BA are making loads of cash and I feel that they do deliver a great product. Only time will tell though.
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Litebulb - yes 'market rate' is regularly quoted on this thread. It explains why there is such a massive turnover within BA currently especially at LGW where on average 25% of each course leave within 6 months. It is now commonly known that better basic salary and T&C's can be achieved at many more airlines nowadays.
As for the need of a 20+ year CSD - well that is probably the difference between BA and the rest, I'm sure your well seasoned travellers viewing this thread will agree. Experience in ANY job has its many advantages...
As for the need of a 20+ year CSD - well that is probably the difference between BA and the rest, I'm sure your well seasoned travellers viewing this thread will agree. Experience in ANY job has its many advantages...
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From what I understand the cabin crew are the worst in BA to go off sick. An average of 22 days sick is terrible, I suppose these sick days coincide with flights scheduled to unpopular destinations.
I wonder what the average number of sick days for the chaps up front is?
I wonder what the average number of sick days for the chaps up front is?
Controversial, moi?
Still, I am on the side of the CC, as BA are making loads of cash
It explains why there is such a massive turnover within BA currently especially at LGW where on average 25% of each course leave within 6 months.
The turnover of CC at LHR is minimal, they bitch and moan but rarely leave.
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From what I understand the cabin crew are the worst in BA to go off sick. An average of 22 days sick is terrible, I suppose these sick days coincide with flights scheduled to unpopular destinations.
I wonder what the average number of sick days for the chaps up front is?
I wonder what the average number of sick days for the chaps up front is?
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Mouse
Your points are valid, but which ever one is right, they are still making loads of cash.
Your comment about turnover is the bit that would worry me if I was crew. It should worry BA, but clearly it doesn't. A 25% turnover rate is terrible and shows that BA is not the employer of choice that it should want to be, however, the training courses are still full. Would that be the case, if their was a turnover rate of 25% at LHR?
People flock to BA because of the money that could be earnt there, but take that away, would they? Some people do their job for the love of customer interaction, some for seeing the world, but most do it for the money
Your points are valid, but which ever one is right, they are still making loads of cash.
Your comment about turnover is the bit that would worry me if I was crew. It should worry BA, but clearly it doesn't. A 25% turnover rate is terrible and shows that BA is not the employer of choice that it should want to be, however, the training courses are still full. Would that be the case, if their was a turnover rate of 25% at LHR?
People flock to BA because of the money that could be earnt there, but take that away, would they? Some people do their job for the love of customer interaction, some for seeing the world, but most do it for the money
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Ok then, not going by figures that may have been spun I will go with what I have been told by my father, which is that they take too much time off sick. After working for well over 20 years at BA I doubt my father took anywhere near 22 sick days.
I don't see how the cabin crew can be complaining at all, from what I gather the pay for cabin crew is very reasonable , they are flying at a prestigious carrier and the hotels that they get to stay in aren't exactly shabby. Don't get me wrong, i think the BA cabin crew do a great job, but in this instance I think they are just being unreasonable.
Maybe they should take note of what the SIA cabin crew put up with, retirement at 30?
I don't see how the cabin crew can be complaining at all, from what I gather the pay for cabin crew is very reasonable , they are flying at a prestigious carrier and the hotels that they get to stay in aren't exactly shabby. Don't get me wrong, i think the BA cabin crew do a great job, but in this instance I think they are just being unreasonable.
Maybe they should take note of what the SIA cabin crew put up with, retirement at 30?
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Staff Travel arrangements in the event of strike action
The airline is currently reviewing its contingency plans following the announcement by the T&G cabin crew branch that it intends to hold a series of 72 hour strikes, starting next Monday (January 29).
The airline remains committed to finding a resolution to this situation through sensible discussion and negotiation. However, it also has a responsibility to give relevant information to staff and customers as soon as possible.
It is our intention to announce the commercial flying schedule for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday (January 29 to 31 inclusive) on Wednesday this week (January 24).
This announcement will be supported by a new commercial policy for our customers that will apply to any cancelled flights.
As part of these contingency plans the airline will be suspending all personal (bookable and stand-by) staff travel on BA mainline services from 23:59 on Thursday, January 25 until further notice.
Exemptions to the staff travel embargo are staff returning to base, as well as commuting flight and cabin crew.
This embargo will be reviewed throughout this week and if a resolution to the dispute can be reached, it will be lifted. Staff should also be aware that the embargo could be brought forward if operational requirements dictate.
Staff who still wish to travel ahead of the embargo are strongly advised to purchase a range of back-up tickets. They should also be aware that available capacity on other carriers is likely to significantly reduce if a strike goes ahead.
Duty travel on British Airways' services will also be suspended from 2359 on Thursday night until further notice. Any exemptions to this must be approved at director level.
The airline is currently reviewing its contingency plans following the announcement by the T&G cabin crew branch that it intends to hold a series of 72 hour strikes, starting next Monday (January 29).
The airline remains committed to finding a resolution to this situation through sensible discussion and negotiation. However, it also has a responsibility to give relevant information to staff and customers as soon as possible.
It is our intention to announce the commercial flying schedule for Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday (January 29 to 31 inclusive) on Wednesday this week (January 24).
This announcement will be supported by a new commercial policy for our customers that will apply to any cancelled flights.
As part of these contingency plans the airline will be suspending all personal (bookable and stand-by) staff travel on BA mainline services from 23:59 on Thursday, January 25 until further notice.
Exemptions to the staff travel embargo are staff returning to base, as well as commuting flight and cabin crew.
This embargo will be reviewed throughout this week and if a resolution to the dispute can be reached, it will be lifted. Staff should also be aware that the embargo could be brought forward if operational requirements dictate.
Staff who still wish to travel ahead of the embargo are strongly advised to purchase a range of back-up tickets. They should also be aware that available capacity on other carriers is likely to significantly reduce if a strike goes ahead.
Duty travel on British Airways' services will also be suspended from 2359 on Thursday night until further notice. Any exemptions to this must be approved at director level.
M Mouse, as you WELL know, BA don't currently measure performance as a % of its market capitalisation, rather the measure is % operating margin.................and for the last quarter it was,
July-September 2006 (Q2 2006)
Q2 Operating margin
10.4%*
BA Way target 10% (full year)
The Employee Reward Plan will pay out if FY operating margin exceeds 8% after costs of the scheme.
* excluding the BA Connect write-down
So BA are making a rather large sum of money
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Good luck to all the BA Ccms coming up against WW, I've always been well looked after by BA cabin crew over the years, and they are a top bunch of people, even if they all vanish to the bunk after the sevice is finished !!! 
I have been on Strike/Lockout for 4 days with my colleagues in Aer Lingus due to WW and I know its very stressful.
100% unity is the only game in town. There are no winners and losers in this war, just attrition on both sides. He knows that, and so MUST you.
I have been on Strike/Lockout for 4 days with my colleagues in Aer Lingus due to WW and I know its very stressful.
100% unity is the only game in town. There are no winners and losers in this war, just attrition on both sides. He knows that, and so MUST you.
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Where do the unions go next IF the strikes indeed go ahead? Whats the plan after the 3 rounds of 3 day strikes...
BA clearly take the action threat seriously, putting out their 'change of travel' policy to customers who have booked through intended strike dates. Can you beleive however that customers WILL NOT be entitled to a refund - they will only be able to change date/time of travel. Hardly fair when school holidays etc are fixed
Life jackets at dawn. Someone has to give. If the unions back down, then Willie will have a field day from this point on. If Willie backs down, he will face complete and utter humiliation
So, its going to be very interesting indeed - WHO DARES WINS 
BA clearly take the action threat seriously, putting out their 'change of travel' policy to customers who have booked through intended strike dates. Can you beleive however that customers WILL NOT be entitled to a refund - they will only be able to change date/time of travel. Hardly fair when school holidays etc are fixed
Life jackets at dawn. Someone has to give. If the unions back down, then Willie will have a field day from this point on. If Willie backs down, he will face complete and utter humiliation
So, its going to be very interesting indeed - WHO DARES WINS
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I don't see how the cabin crew can be complaining at all, from what I gather the pay for cabin crew is very reasonable , they are flying at a prestigious carrier and the hotels that they get to stay in aren't exactly shabby. Don't get me wrong, i think the BA cabin crew do a great job, but in this instance I think they are just being unreasonable.
Maybe they should take note of what the SIA cabin crew put up with, retirement at 30?
Is that the answer then roll_over....all become subserviant smilers for the likes of you and your type.
From personal experience on SIA I would not recommend becoming seriously ill......
Having just been down SIN way with no spare seats in either direction, BA can't be THAT bad as some would think.
All readers of this thread might want to consider what they actually do expect from any cabin crew on any airline.
Maybe they should take note of what the SIA cabin crew put up with, retirement at 30?
Is that the answer then roll_over....all become subserviant smilers for the likes of you and your type.
From personal experience on SIA I would not recommend becoming seriously ill......
Having just been down SIN way with no spare seats in either direction, BA can't be THAT bad as some would think.
All readers of this thread might want to consider what they actually do expect from any cabin crew on any airline.
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A passengers view...
I have been observing from afar both sides of this discussion since it's start.
As a BA passenger with long haul travel plans that coicided with the proposed strike dates, I have now cancelled my BA flights and booked with another airline. The simple economic reality is that BA have now lost my money, and will loose the money and confidence of many other travellers
I understand the frustrations of those that voted for action, but what a time for disruption. Passengers want good service, good products, good aeroplanes etc etc. Without these things, they will go elsewhere. That means less money, meaning less investment. BA has to save money or be more efficient to break the ongoing cycle and start an upward trend of investment to attract new and dissillusioned passengers.
WW will not give up and he will not fail in his intentions. Short term huge disruption for long term stability and investment. Shame it has to be done in this way, but BA is a business in a competative market.
As a BA passenger with long haul travel plans that coicided with the proposed strike dates, I have now cancelled my BA flights and booked with another airline. The simple economic reality is that BA have now lost my money, and will loose the money and confidence of many other travellers
I understand the frustrations of those that voted for action, but what a time for disruption. Passengers want good service, good products, good aeroplanes etc etc. Without these things, they will go elsewhere. That means less money, meaning less investment. BA has to save money or be more efficient to break the ongoing cycle and start an upward trend of investment to attract new and dissillusioned passengers.
WW will not give up and he will not fail in his intentions. Short term huge disruption for long term stability and investment. Shame it has to be done in this way, but BA is a business in a competative market.
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I recall the cabin crew "strike" about 12-15 years ago. They were all mouth about their determination to strike until their demands were met.
On the appointed day some reported for work, and very few actually went on strike, they all started calling in sick instead, thinking that way they would be untouchable.
Well times have moved on and the option of going sick for three blocks of three days is hardly an option with the EG300? programme which they have signed up for.
If the management were to dismiss all those on the old contract then that would be unfair dismissal and they would be entiteld to compensation of around a weeks salary for each year of service. The figure will obviously vary from individual to individual, but lets say a figure of £5000 might be typical.
How long would it take to re-coup that money with new staff on new contracts?
If they are determined to stay out until their demands are met in full including items such as the re-opening of the Manchester base then I think their prospects are bleak. The original justification for all the regional bases Man, Gla and Bfs was that it saved the costs of crew nightstopping in those places, and that they crewed regional services from Man, but that's all in the past, those services are now Bacon/Be.
I wish them luck in trying to hang on to hard won T&C's in difficult times but I fear they are not going on win this one.
On the appointed day some reported for work, and very few actually went on strike, they all started calling in sick instead, thinking that way they would be untouchable.
Well times have moved on and the option of going sick for three blocks of three days is hardly an option with the EG300? programme which they have signed up for.
If the management were to dismiss all those on the old contract then that would be unfair dismissal and they would be entiteld to compensation of around a weeks salary for each year of service. The figure will obviously vary from individual to individual, but lets say a figure of £5000 might be typical.
How long would it take to re-coup that money with new staff on new contracts?
If they are determined to stay out until their demands are met in full including items such as the re-opening of the Manchester base then I think their prospects are bleak. The original justification for all the regional bases Man, Gla and Bfs was that it saved the costs of crew nightstopping in those places, and that they crewed regional services from Man, but that's all in the past, those services are now Bacon/Be.
I wish them luck in trying to hang on to hard won T&C's in difficult times but I fear they are not going on win this one.
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Wolverhampton - spot on!
Unfortunately the BA spin machine is blaming everything onto CC in this latest dispute when in fact its their doing that has brought all this on.
As for "good service, good product, good aeroplanes" we have been telling our 'management' for years now that these items are just not good enough.
As a SCCM with BA I spend 90% of my time apologising, the other 10% trying to fix the antequated IFE system. Its not what I want nor my colleagues - we want to return BA to its premier position in the airline industry but unfortunately thats' not one of our managements goals....
Unfortunately the BA spin machine is blaming everything onto CC in this latest dispute when in fact its their doing that has brought all this on.
As for "good service, good product, good aeroplanes" we have been telling our 'management' for years now that these items are just not good enough.
As a SCCM with BA I spend 90% of my time apologising, the other 10% trying to fix the antequated IFE system. Its not what I want nor my colleagues - we want to return BA to its premier position in the airline industry but unfortunately thats' not one of our managements goals....