BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat

[Fuzzy112]

Good luck to all the crew who decide to go on strike. I think WW will be very tough and shut up shop for everyone in a bid to turn different working groups against eachother. One thing is for sure though - all BA's competitors are about to have a field day - I bet the likes of bmi are chomping at the bit to grab some customers!

[ABird747]

I posted this in the Cabin Crew forum, can't be bothered to type it all again but it seems pertinent.

The situation that we as crew and our management find ourselves in seems to be entirely different depending on whom you listen to...

If you listen to BASSA and read the postings on their website it seems that the company is doing a large-scale smash and grab on our Ts&Cs with imposition being the order of the day.

If you listen to Amicus they are in talks with the company and have made some progress. I had a letter from their full time officer on my door mat when I got home with an update on the issues in dispute as follows:

Pensions - BA Reps will be meeting on the 22nd Jan to discuss the proposals prior to membership being consulted.

Buses - Will be extended to run over the weekend.

LGW Breakfast - Offer has been made by BA, the decision on whether to accept it rests with LGW fleet reps and LGW crew.

EG300 - Matter is of major importance, any review is the property of all BA employees. There are items specific to cabin crew that Amicus are adressing and BA have acknowledged this and proposed a number of changes. Proposals have been made to change ill-health retirement arrangements also.

Report time - BA admit there are issues and have agreed that it can be dealt with at Worldwide Steering.

WTR - BA agree that 900 hours is the maximum number of flying hours permissible. Training days are now being considered as duty. Discussion are continuing.

MAN - Objections at the manner in which the closre was managed have been registered along with concerns over the future of GLA. As the decision on MAN will not be reversed, the closure will not be included in ongoing discussions.

Preferred Seller - BA's proposals have been withdrawn. BA invited Amicus to come forward with ideas to maximise revenue.

Fixed links - Has been referred back to EF Steering. Amicus raised the issue of rest breaks under the WTR. BA has been asked to demostrate their compliance with this in their duty time allocations. Further discussions will take place on this matter.

Single Supervisory Grade - Amicus believes that this has been dealt with outside the current discussions and therefore does not form part of their current discussions.

PSR/JNR Swap - This is of primary importance to Amicus. Further discussions will take place on this issue although BA have stated their determination to go ahead with this proposal. Amicus has asked for guarantees in respect of promotion and employment continuity. Discussion will continue.

Post '97 Payscales - Item is of utmost importance. BA has said they could make money available to help resolve the issue. In terms of over all costs there seems to be no opportunity for levelling of the payscales. Discussions are ongoing.


Maybe I am reading this wrong but it does not seem that discussions have ground to a halt as the 'walking egos' of BASSA seem to suggest. I'll hold my hands up now and say that I am not a great fan of industrial action, I've been out before and will do again if I need to because I am left with no choice but we do not seem to have reached that point yet.

Unfortunately a large number of my colleagues seem to wait on every word (and text message) uttered by BASSA and consume each pearl of wisdom with unnerring trust without stopping to question a thing that they have been told. The reps are held in such reverence that to dare to consider any other point of view except that which is passed down from on high is shouted down as herecy and treason by their coterie of bully-boys.

Here's hoping that one day the politicking and double-speak that is used to brainwash a large number of cabin crew is seen for what it is before too much damage is done.

[egbt]

Well Guys and Girls at BA, it’s probably not sensible to post after some rather good Cote du Rhone but I’m going to any way…..


You people need to remember that customer loyalty is a very fickle thing; I have been flying BA as my preferred carrier for over 25 years and still do so enough to have a gold card and enough BA miles to get my wife and I on a long haul flight each year, 1st class, plus a couple of European flights as well.


Why do I fly BA? well partially, I admit, from habit but also because service is generally good, you have a good route structure and I have (had?) the perception that BA had a good safety culture (not so sure now on the engineering side, having read the AAIB reports) and would some how get me home if there was a problem with the aircraft or what ever.


However a couple of years ago I defected to another carrier for flights to the far east, the trigger for that was a price difference of about £800 for a business class ticket to HKG, but guess what – having flown CX I found that not only were they cheaper but the food and wine were better than BA, the lounge in HKG was better (important for a 23:30 flight), I could check in from mainland China at the ferry port rather than go through HKG / Kowloon etc (I think BA do that now) and the service was as good and arguably better than BA’s. Also I realised that if an a/c when t!tts up in HKG Cathay would probably be in a better position to get me home than BA, as they proved late last year. At the same time I have seen a gradual increase in the number of BA engineering screw ups, probably caused by penny pinching, one of which that cost me a days delay to PHL I know was avoidable.


So what’s my point? Well firstly and most emotively I am due to fly to Cape Town on vacation (yes BA miles) on one of your strike days, if it goes ahead I will probably lose a significant amount of cash as well as my annual vacation - so I am extremely P!ss@d off and will probably be less favourably inclined to BA in the future.


Secondly and in the grand scheme of things more importantly for BA staff, other customers will realise that there is an alternative and defect to other airlines and may very well like what they find and stay with them.


IIRC research shows it costs > 5 times as much to get a new customer as to retain a current one, so if you lot go on strike you are probably going to shoot yourselves in both feet at the same time. And not get what your union say you want.

[Carnage Matey!]

A little birdy tells me they are now censoring the postings on the BASSA forum to stop people questioning the unions tactics. Apparently you can't post anything over there that challenges the reputation or operation of the union!!!

[M.Mouse]

My airline had a strike in 85 and they 'scabs' are STILL given hassle over it.

Ah yes, the good old intimidation and blackmail threat.

[wiggy]

egbt

OK, I'll bite, I usually do.
The reduction in the quality of food and wine is more likely to be down to penny pinching by those who control the budgets ( perhaps in an attempt to generate their bonuses) rather than the "boys and girls" on the line, so perhaps that's a point that should be put to Willie or one of the Board. That said, I agree, it's not right, you paid for a Premium product and rightly expected to get what you paid for.
AS for engineering "screw ups", thats's a bit of an emotive term to say the least, so could you be more specfic? Or would you be happier we accepted and flew unservicable aircraft just to avoid delays.
As to suddenly realising that HKG Cathy would be in a better position to get you home from HKG than BA - they bl***y well should be - HKG is their main base ( location of spare aircraft/ crew/ parts). If the delay was in London the boot would be on the other foot, so to speak.
I agree with your last point - at every Corporate "event" I've attended we've had the "it costs 5 times more to get as new customer than retain one" speech; problem is that in recent years we've not then been given the tools to do the job( penny pinching again).

[Joetom]

CM,
.
Thanks for the info on the BASSA birdie.
.
How about "BA pilots prepared to strike" on this site, was in Rumours and News for about one year with 1394 posts and 202175 views, but its just been moved to Terms and Endearment with last post about two days ago!!!
.
Lets be clear about stike action, BASSA are working for their members, BASSA do not want to strike, but it's the only option left open to them in looking after their members.
.
BASSA will prove it still has teeth and claws and they look very sharpe to me.
.
Talking of cats, the company gave great rewards to those who were involved in previous wildcat actions in the past, a union working inside and to the letter or the law will get a good result and that's for sure.
.
I hope the next lot of free thank you hotline tickets are club class!!!

[Carnage Matey!]

Yep. We were prepared to strike. Through negotiation it looks like that won't be necessary.

BASSA are looking after BASSA, and the militant 100 who voted for a ballot. Since then the members have been looking after BASSA. "Vote Yes, support the union" has been the mantra. They could have tried negotiation like CC89, which appears to have yielded results.

The company gave rewards to people involved in previous strikes when Mike 'Feeble' Street was in charge. When Willy took over there were no rewards, only the sack.

[ABird747]

Originally Posted by Joetom

.
Lets be clear about stike action, BASSA are working for their members, BASSA do not want to strike, but it's the only option left open to them in looking after their members.

What?! If they were so averse to going on strike they would have been talking to the company as Amicus have been!

The line they're stringing you that the company isn't willing to enter meaningful negotiations is clearly crap as Amicus have been negotiating in a sensible way and have been getting results.

WHY ARE YOU GOING ON STRIKE WHEN THERE IS STILL TALKING TO BE DONE!?

[tilewood]

Walsh and Dromey were interviewed on Radio 4's Today programme
a few minutes ago. It was like going back to the 1970s. When Dromey was
asked, as the union representative, whether he thought an average 0f 22 days per year off sick was acceptable, he would not give a straight answer.

The good ole unions.... meanwhile waiting in the wings and waiting
to perform are the lo-costs!!

[AndyPandy]

meanwhile waiting in the wings and waiting
to perform are the lo-costs!!

Regrettable but it is obvious from the post by baggersup that he/she is being screwed twice once by BASSA and again by Mr. B seeking to make a killing. I have no doubt all other airlines will too.

Here is some information on what BASSA is demanding, I will leave it to others to decide whether these demands are reasonable.

The specific points raised by the BASSA in the discussions would add more than £37 million a year to costs within Inflight Service.

Some but not all demands are:

Purser/Junior swap

British Airways has the highest supervisor levels of any European airline and, apart from JAL, any world airline, on the Boeing 747-400 aircraft.
BA are offering to introduce this change incrementally, as well as offer voluntary severance and part-time working to provide some room for promotions. Intended fleet growth in the coming years will require additional cabin crew jobs at all grades.

BASSA have asked that BA does not impose any reduction in the number of Purser manning levels on a 747-400 and subsequent increase in main crew levels.

Post 97 pay scales

The BASSA position is to add an extra four increments to the pay scales for those who joined since 1997.

These would be:

1. 16200
2. 17000
3. 17800
4. 18600

This amounts to an 18 per cent pay rise for top-of-scale crew whose earnings would then exceed £30,000 per annum. The cost of adding these to the scale including pensions would be £10.4m per year, rising to £19m over time.

Report times.

The BASSA request for every long-haul report to be one hour before estimated time of departure increases the duty day of every inbound flight and would cost BA £6.2 million per year.

LGW Breakfast allowance

Increasing the LGW hourly rate by a further 4p.

BASSA propose the hourly rate for LGW crew be raised from the £2.41 that BA proposed in December to £2.45. This would cost an extra £306,000 in total per year.

Fixed Links

BA believe that having cabin crew stay with the same aircraft for a given duty period through fixed links can improve stability and punctuality as well as offering crew more certainty in their expected earnings. It also reduces the frustration of time spent waiting around.

BA propose replacing current turnaround payments with fixed link payments so that crew earnings are protected.

This is a proposal that provides a benefit to the company under the IFS business plan. The BASSA proposal is that an extra £700k is also added to standby payments (£20 per crew member per day).

250 CSD headcount guaranteed on Shorthaul

The BASSA proposal is that the company agrees to guarantee a fixed number of 250 CSDs within the shorthaul crew community, whether they are required or not. This would cost £1.4m per year to sustain.

MAN-JFK Route

The Manchester base has now closed and all staff have been given the choice to work elsewhere within the company, to transfer to another fleet, or to leave the business under voluntary severance.

BASSA have made a suggestion for a crewing solution that the MAN-JFK longhaul route become part of Eurofleet and is flown by volunteers only.

This would cost around £3 million more than moving the route into longhaul as planned by the company.

900 hours

Working time rules mean that BA cabin crew can fly for a maximum of 900 hours per year. BA have already employed an additional 350 crew at a cost of around £9 million to comply with this legislation.

There is, of course, an ability to do non-flying work beyond this, up to a maximum of 2,000 hours a year. BA wish to use some of these paid days for training and developing our crew.

The BASSA proposal seeks a guarantee that when a crew member's roster reaches the 900 flying hours level that crew member will not be used for any duty, ground or air. This effectively turns paid working days into extra days off and would cost an additional £5.2 million.

Pensions

BA have committed £6m for use among cabin crew. This could be used either to increase pensionable pay for crew or elsewhere (for example, to address BASSA's desire to improve pay rates for cabin crew who joined after 1997).

There are now a number of further claims for the new NAPS pension proposal from BASSA:

Any crew member considered for ground duty under EG300 section 4 must be skills matched and fully matched or protected on earnings. The EG300 absence policy will match crew to roles where the basic pay is comparable. In addition, any alternative role is fully skills matched before an individual can be placed in it.

BA say that to include allowances, and thereby protect total earnings, would go far beyond the existing process for all other staff groups. In addition, the change would almost certainly have an impact upon the sustainability of tax efficient allowances.

Ill Health Retirement:

BASSA propose that if an individual lives more than one hour travel time or 50 miles from current base then ill health retirement should always be available.

The BASSA proposal here is that any crew member who is unable to perform flying duties due to medical incapacity but is fit to continue working in a ground role, is offered ill health retirement if they live more than 50 miles (or one hour's drive) from their base.

This proposal would cost the company around £3.9 million in ill health retirement pensions augmentation and lump sum payment costs and would require a change in the Pension Trust Deed.

It is also inequitable for other BA employees who already drive for more than one hour to work as well as those crew who live closer to their base.

BASSA propose that a move from NAPS 1 to NAPS 2 with no cost to crew member and no back dating of benefits should be allowed.

The cost of offering a move from NAPS1 to NAPS2 at no cost to the crew member would amount to £4 million.

Buy back at 55 at 6.25 per cent

The BASSA proposal is to offer crew an opportunity to make additional contributions of 6.25 per cent to secure a normal retirement age of 55. This proposal, which was extensively discussed within the recently settled pensions talks with the Trade Unions, runs counter to the position agreed within the BA Forum. Additionally there would be a significant equal pay issue if only offered to the crew community.

P.S. I am not management and the above information has been gleaned from sources available elsewhere.

[kaikohe76]

BA Cabin Crew Strike

Folks, you may well think you have right on your side, but do you really think you will win in the end?

Even now many passengers, remember them at all, will be cancelling BA bookings & the phones at Ryanair Ugh!! & Easy Jet Ugh!! will be ringing. These pax as I said before may very well not return to BA & with good reason not to.

So no problem then. Less passengers = Less need for BA to provide seats = Less need for quite so many CC etc = staff redundancies at some stage down the line.

This folks is not the way, all you will achieve is to loose what little good will BA may still have with the travelling public & they will not return.

WW & his management must be rubbing their hands with glee, what a super excuse for cutting staff & thus cutting costs!!

Still no mention from most posts about the pax, perhaps that shows just what level they occupy in many BA staff's minds.

[Flying Lawyer]

Originally Posted by kaikohe76

Still no mention from most posts about the pax, perhaps that shows just what level they occupy in many BA staff's minds.

As a fellow passenger who's followed the discussion from the beginning, I don't think that's either accurate or fair.
Whether it is or not, surely this thread in an aviation forum is mainly for people who work in the industry to discuss the pros and cons of Bassa CC demands?
When those of us outside the industry have asked questions, they've been answered patiently and politely.

[the departed]

Hearts and minds battle now

Interesting posts. I find myself knodding in agreement with most of them. 747bird, sporran, CM (not always liked your posts but you're making sense on this one matey) and others in agreement.

YES, we need the unions, YES it's important for them to have claws, YES it's important for them fight our cause, YES, BA would love to strip us of our contracts and here lies the danger ...

Unions should only come out to flight in this way when its completely necessary. Many of the 12 points on the table are a laugh, the others are all solvable. Personally, and please don't have a go here as I'm one of many crew now feeling this way, I voted YES. But I voted yes in good faith. I believed that with a 96% yes vote that would be enough for BASSA to negoiate with alone and they would use that vote WISELY. Now, I think they're running away with their power, and as Get Smart rightly pointed out, taking a lot of over emotional crew ill-informed along for the bumpy ride. A dangerous game with it's your career.

This time, we're dealing with an unknown enemy. We know WW is bad news and he's fully up for the bloody fight, but we don't quite know what he's going to do - but rest assured it won't be pleasant. That is certain. Whatever he has planned, he will have approval but also - he must succeed with his cunning plan or his out of a job so it's risky for him too. He has a lot to loose.

But, this 'american' gun-ho attitude by the unions rather scarey. Now, as a BASSA member, I'm also having a change of heart - because I believe my yes vote is being abused. Coming back to the start of my post, the empowerment given to BASSA by the crew should only be used when completely necessary. Next time, when we need this support, it may not be so forthcoming if crew are left licking their wounds and WW will have won the battle. There lies the danger in our future.

As for the customers, yes they are fickle but there are now more choices (and attractive ones) out there. BA have had a rather horrid year haven't they? It's been one PR disaster after another. With CC set to strike, groundstaff apparently preparing to as well (anyone have any further info on that)? it's not going to be long before Richard has the worlds favorite airline and the worlds fav are out of favour! Richard will win out of this no matter what happens and he's done nothing but sit back and rub his hands with glee.

Good luck to striking crew. I think you'll need it. I'm going to CC89 asap. Sinking ship?

[kaikohe76]

BA Cabin Crew Strike

Flying Lawyer, thanks for your reply to my post, I note your comments. May I please make the following myself.

- Does 37 years wearing both a blue & then a black uniform, having gained 17000 hours plus & at one stage (6 years) been authorised to fly both HM the Q & any occupant of No 10 justify my arrendance on this post.

- I still maintain that, by going on strike the only people to benefit in the end, will be management & the only people to losse out will be the Cabin Crew themselves & yes the passenger.

- Do think of the inconvenience & trouble this strike will put the passengers to folks, you may well need them at some stage along the line.

[Flying Lawyer]

kaikohe76

Infinitely more justification than I have.

I suspect you may have misunderstood what I meant. If so, that's entirely my fault for not expressing myself sufficiently clearly.

FL

[Roobarb]

Originally Posted by the departed

YES, we need the unions

The truth is that well run companies that respect their employees have no need of unions.

BA has a history of hostile management, that resorts to aggressive and hostile when bullying doesn’t work. They give 19th century mill-owners a bad name.

WW is a one trick pony who offers more of the same with knobs on. He’s a legend amongst macho managers, and is looking for an opportunity to show that world what he’s made of.

One day, if there’s anything left of BA after all this, the board might actually decide that treating its major asset – the staff – with some dignity and respect might produce bountious dividends.

After all, staff sickness is directly proportional to poor morale. So said Ailing Bob.


I’ll take on the opposition anyday, it’s my management I can’t beat!

[egbt]

Originally Posted by wiggy

OK, I'll bite, I usually do.
AS for engineering "screw ups", thats's a bit of an emotive term to say the least, so could you be more specfic? Or would you be happier we accepted and flew unservicable aircraft just to avoid delays.

Try this one (of several): 747 has minor fault with 28 days to fix, engineering leave till the last minute (OK last couple of hours) and fail to fix it. So they decide that the CAA will issue a waiver, we board the a/c and sit there for several hours whilst the CSD bad mouths the CAA because a) the person they need to speak to is unavailable and then b) they refuse the waiver. (The Capt confirmed the story to me but did not knock the CAA). Result: 24 hour delay I lost half of my 48 hour trip, meetings missed and a p!ssed off customer.
As a part owner of a GA aircraft I am no supporter of the CAA but they were quite right and BA engineering wrong firstly for leaving is so late and then assuming they would get the waiver. The CSD was just a pr*t.
My point from this and about quality of food etc is of course nothing directly to do with the CC my point was that BA is going down hill, events like a proposed strike can be the trigger for customer defections and once people switch its hard to get them back.

[the departed]

'BA has a history of hostile management, that resorts to aggressive and hostile when bullying doesn’t work. They give 19th century mill-owners a bad name.'


Hence we need unions. But the unions must behave carefully, we we'll all loose. That's the point I'm making.

[Da Dog]

BASSA are playing their membership in much the same way Channel 4 played Jade Goody. I hope the CC know what they individually are doing.
Now I am reliably informed that even the BASSA members forum has been censored, with various posts being removed and threats being made to non co-operative members.
Still, desperate times for those with big egos now they have backed themselves into a corner.