BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat
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I believe the time for Strikes, especially in the aviation industry, has long since gone. The only way is negotiation, negotiation, negotiation, then compromise, then, if all else fails, arbitration by a competent appointed judge. Heaven forfend that, one day, we have a government that felt it had the strength to declare that Air Travel was an "essential industry" and therefore any strike action relating to it would be unlawful. In the meantime, we can all see that this will not end well; there will only be losers, there will be no winners, and what is astounding that the contestants in this struggle refuse to see this and leave no stone unturned to try to find a solution.
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Capt S. : essentially where we're at here in the States with the Railway Labo(u)r Act....
Impasse over management bonuses, etc....
All this nonsense over cabin humidity/ flight-deck have it better air than us/positive pressure behind the door....oh pleeeeze.....what utter claptrap.
As a long-time long-hauler on 777 and 744, I'm asking you to give it a rest and look for more creditable stuff that might win the propaganda war with the public, other than smoke/fumes prevention measures in the design.
There's plenty of worldwide management intransigence and self-patting-on-the-back to go around. All this "flight-deck have it better than us" idiocy is unprovoked and is playing into the hands of those who would rather 'divide and conquer'.
Impasse over management bonuses, etc....
All this nonsense over cabin humidity/ flight-deck have it better air than us/positive pressure behind the door....oh pleeeeze.....what utter claptrap.
As a long-time long-hauler on 777 and 744, I'm asking you to give it a rest and look for more creditable stuff that might win the propaganda war with the public, other than smoke/fumes prevention measures in the design.
There's plenty of worldwide management intransigence and self-patting-on-the-back to go around. All this "flight-deck have it better than us" idiocy is unprovoked and is playing into the hands of those who would rather 'divide and conquer'.
Andy S
In response to your comments about my views on Cabin crew sickness Iwas merely remarking on an earleir post which showed thata couple of years back CC sickness was at a very high level , it had come down a lot but the UK average was syill some way below that implying thatas this remains an issue that where the target was.
And no I dont think the CC stand up all the way to HK but they are on their feet for a fair rpoportion of the time often in close proximity to maybe 400 pax at least some of whom will have flu colds etc etc.
As for Mr Walshs job , yes of course he has to look after the shareholders but typically their axpirations as expressed through the board are relatively short term and financially focussed . I was just making the point that if you run an airline one of the many factors he has to balance is keeping the outfit operating. To me as a regualr BA customer and a shareholder he gives the impression that it isn't just the Union side who seem a bit to keen to 'take this outside' rather than talk.
PB
In response to your comments about my views on Cabin crew sickness Iwas merely remarking on an earleir post which showed thata couple of years back CC sickness was at a very high level , it had come down a lot but the UK average was syill some way below that implying thatas this remains an issue that where the target was.
And no I dont think the CC stand up all the way to HK but they are on their feet for a fair rpoportion of the time often in close proximity to maybe 400 pax at least some of whom will have flu colds etc etc.
As for Mr Walshs job , yes of course he has to look after the shareholders but typically their axpirations as expressed through the board are relatively short term and financially focussed . I was just making the point that if you run an airline one of the many factors he has to balance is keeping the outfit operating. To me as a regualr BA customer and a shareholder he gives the impression that it isn't just the Union side who seem a bit to keen to 'take this outside' rather than talk.
PB
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So I see that the talks have broken down again and next weeks strike is going ahead. No suprise there then, Willie wants it to go all the way....... BASSA, you have been played and have given the company exactly what they want... a one off chance to break the back of your union and introduce new agreements. You should of been negotiating much earlier rather than playing childish games with the company which ultimately has put all of your members livelyhoods at great risk. Good luck on the picket lines.
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Sorry I know this was posted a while back but you are complaining about earning 1700 quid a month take home after 3 years in the job? And you are complaining you can barely get by - suggest you re-evaluate your spending. If you think you are not well off you deserve everything you have coming.
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Re sickness:
Oh for heavens sake, I keep flying with crew that run down EG300 with the "I've only been sick once in the last 5 years so why should I be penalised if I get sick twice in succession etc etc"
1:So many crew seem to have not been regulary sick that it blows the "we work in a virus filled environment and are always ill" argument out of the water.
2: 22 days is an average, for all the crew who are sick a lot less there must be crew who are sick a lot more to get that average figure. They need addressing.
3: Even if you do trigger EG300 you are NOT disciplined, you simply go for an interview to justify your salary while being at home and to be offered any required help and support. Just because the company wants to see you does not mean you are being bullied and forced to work while sick.
Sure you meet people with colds, I have two kids, they always get colds, I go to playgroups and nurseries where they all have colds. If I get one I go sick, if and when I trigger EG300 I'll go in and tell them about my colds. They are not trying to get me, they want the p1ss takers, and so they should.
EG300 is not nice but it's what we agreed to and it works.
Oh for heavens sake, I keep flying with crew that run down EG300 with the "I've only been sick once in the last 5 years so why should I be penalised if I get sick twice in succession etc etc"
1:So many crew seem to have not been regulary sick that it blows the "we work in a virus filled environment and are always ill" argument out of the water.
2: 22 days is an average, for all the crew who are sick a lot less there must be crew who are sick a lot more to get that average figure. They need addressing.
3: Even if you do trigger EG300 you are NOT disciplined, you simply go for an interview to justify your salary while being at home and to be offered any required help and support. Just because the company wants to see you does not mean you are being bullied and forced to work while sick.
Sure you meet people with colds, I have two kids, they always get colds, I go to playgroups and nurseries where they all have colds. If I get one I go sick, if and when I trigger EG300 I'll go in and tell them about my colds. They are not trying to get me, they want the p1ss takers, and so they should.
EG300 is not nice but it's what we agreed to and it works.
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I think Mr Walsh is a clever man, experienced in breaking entrenched unionised resistance who has actually worked on the front line. I think he correctly perceives that BA is at a significant junction. T5 about to happen with its new working practices, a massive new aircraft order imminent and the industry still parlous and certainly perceived as being 'stricken'.
Now is the time to lance the boil of BA cabin crew militancy and lavish terms.
A strike in February is the best time from managements point of view
A strike over a rag tag clutch of grievances are the best to fight a strike action over.
A strike at a time when you could comfortably reduce headcount is ideal.
A strike when strikers are facing their Christmas credit card bills and rising mortgages suits management.
This strike will crumble. After that happens management dictate peace terms. In the longer term this will be a price worth paying for BA. A good cabin crew member is worth about £20k, same as a new teacher or nurse. A senior one on a wide body is maybe worth £30k. That is about it.
Cabin crew driving large Mercs on £59,000 a year just isn't on anymore.
And I know two.
Sorry.
AP
Now is the time to lance the boil of BA cabin crew militancy and lavish terms.
A strike in February is the best time from managements point of view
A strike over a rag tag clutch of grievances are the best to fight a strike action over.
A strike at a time when you could comfortably reduce headcount is ideal.
A strike when strikers are facing their Christmas credit card bills and rising mortgages suits management.
This strike will crumble. After that happens management dictate peace terms. In the longer term this will be a price worth paying for BA. A good cabin crew member is worth about £20k, same as a new teacher or nurse. A senior one on a wide body is maybe worth £30k. That is about it.
Cabin crew driving large Mercs on £59,000 a year just isn't on anymore.
And I know two.
Sorry.
AP
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Ok then. It now seems the strike is to go ahead (for the first part anyway, albeit 2 days). There seems to have been few comments from the 'Traveler' in this thread so I thought I would add mine. I work in the industry (Engineer) and work away from home. I only get 3 holidays a year and have always flown BA whenever I could. Each time I have there has been some sort of problem or delay. Aircraft serviceability, weather (not BA's fault I know) strikes etc. the list goes on. This airline is really stuck in the 70/80's with there mentality and indeed working practices. The traveling public are just being held to ransom yet again and I believe many BA frequent flyer's will take there custom elsewhere. Why cant the management and CC resolve there differences without having to resort to a strike and completely destroying there, up till now, loyal customer base?? My next trip home will not be with BA 
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Well said AbeamPoints. The points you make spot on. I too work for BA and throughout the last 12 months just about every department has had to make changes and sacarfices.
Our cabin crew, despite what they claim, are some of the best paid in the WORLD. CSDs earning upto £60K (more than some Flight Crew!) Pursers earning more than £30K, Main Crew earning £20K. lets compare these salaries to teachers/police/nurses... It just doesn't stack up.
On top of all this, BASSA has spun a web of un-truths.. BASSA is leading their members into a fight that the CANNOT win, listeneing to Jack Dromey it's very easy to see that it isn't negotiation he wants, it's CONFLICT. The 1970s mentality of his approach is amazing.
I feel for our crew, many of them are good friends of mine. Now is the time for them to realise that they need to wake up and see that BASSA have grossly mis-judged the reaction of WW. I recently spoke to crew who were convinced (by BASSA) that WW would not let the crew strike, too much bad PR.
Well he will let you strike, he will break you and you will be considerably worse off as a result.
Our cabin crew, despite what they claim, are some of the best paid in the WORLD. CSDs earning upto £60K (more than some Flight Crew!) Pursers earning more than £30K, Main Crew earning £20K. lets compare these salaries to teachers/police/nurses... It just doesn't stack up.
On top of all this, BASSA has spun a web of un-truths.. BASSA is leading their members into a fight that the CANNOT win, listeneing to Jack Dromey it's very easy to see that it isn't negotiation he wants, it's CONFLICT. The 1970s mentality of his approach is amazing.
I feel for our crew, many of them are good friends of mine. Now is the time for them to realise that they need to wake up and see that BASSA have grossly mis-judged the reaction of WW. I recently spoke to crew who were convinced (by BASSA) that WW would not let the crew strike, too much bad PR.
Well he will let you strike, he will break you and you will be considerably worse off as a result.
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flap 33,
very well put.
i to feel very sorry for what awaits our crew. am presently down-route and am stunned at the niavity being displayed by some of the cc.
they seem almost certain that ww will fold and give them what they want. more money, same T&C's forever, more days off, they are truly deluded.
i have no doubt that somebody is in for a big shock on tuesday. the cc seem to think it's going to be ww, i've got a feeling it's going to be the cc.
very well put.
i to feel very sorry for what awaits our crew. am presently down-route and am stunned at the niavity being displayed by some of the cc.
they seem almost certain that ww will fold and give them what they want. more money, same T&C's forever, more days off, they are truly deluded.
i have no doubt that somebody is in for a big shock on tuesday. the cc seem to think it's going to be ww, i've got a feeling it's going to be the cc.
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Now get realistic, don't be conned by bad reps; read the messages, not just the convenient ones, and realise that your support is close to zero within our airline community, and among our fare paying customers.
Still, if a good rant makes you feel better...
Cheers.
Controversial, moi?
From BASSA:
In response from BA:
And:
T&G's offer to postpone our strike as a final and last gesture of goodwill, gave Willie Walsh a further 24 hours for the opportunity to finally address our problems - and to save disruption and inconvenience to both crew and our customers. This opportunity has been lost by the Chief Executive. There simply was not sufficient desire or will to try and reach a deal. He has not changed his stance significantly on one single item.
He refused point blank to even talk about pensions. His late night offer did contain some movement on EG 300 albeit with a sting in the tail, and he suggested we use the upcoming pay talks to self fund 4 increases in new contract salary.
We may receive criticism for even trying, but T&G/BASSA committed that we would explore every single possibility and that industrial action would always be the last resort. We have tried our very best and more, but there will be no negotiated solution at this moment, they simply do not want one. Even the skills of Jack Dromey (Deputy General Secretary) could not conjure up a breakthrough.
Willie Walsh would prefer to put this business on a confrontation course with the cabin crew community. We have continued to try, to the point when even the patience of a cross wearing saint would be stretched!
Our dates for industrial action remain and will now commence on Tuesday 30th January at 00.01 until 23.59 on Wednesday 31st January.
He refused point blank to even talk about pensions. His late night offer did contain some movement on EG 300 albeit with a sting in the tail, and he suggested we use the upcoming pay talks to self fund 4 increases in new contract salary.
We may receive criticism for even trying, but T&G/BASSA committed that we would explore every single possibility and that industrial action would always be the last resort. We have tried our very best and more, but there will be no negotiated solution at this moment, they simply do not want one. Even the skills of Jack Dromey (Deputy General Secretary) could not conjure up a breakthrough.
Willie Walsh would prefer to put this business on a confrontation course with the cabin crew community. We have continued to try, to the point when even the patience of a cross wearing saint would be stretched!
Our dates for industrial action remain and will now commence on Tuesday 30th January at 00.01 until 23.59 on Wednesday 31st January.
In response from BA:
FROM: Willie Walsh, Chief Executive
Despite intense discussions that ran late into the evening, I regret to
inform you that the T&G trade union has informed us that it intends to
still go ahead with its strike action, starting early next week.
The T&G has confirmed to us that it will call upon its cabin crew members
to strike on Tuesday, January 30 and Wednesday, January 31 as well as
February 5, 6, 7 and again on February 12, 13 and 14.
We are bitterly disappointed that the T&G has refused to respond positively
to the serious proposals we have made, choosing instead to confirm a
48-hour stoppage for next week that will wreck the travel plans of hundreds
of thousands of our customers.
Let me be clear, the T&G did not need to take this action. You can see for
yourselves from the attached letter we gave to them this evening that the
T&G had, and still has, every opportunity to call off this strike.
We have accepted the T&G’s proposal to improve the application of the EG300
absence management policy. We have also put forward a solution on pay, as
part of our upcoming wage round. Despite these positive approaches, the T&G
has rejected our position out of hand.
We must now do what we can to mitigate the impact on our customers. Later
today (Thursday, January 25), we plan to publish details of the flight
programme we plan to operate on Tuesday and Wednesday of next week, and
intensify our efforts to help people whose flights will be cancelled
because of this unnecessary and unjustified strike.
If the T&G is serious about solving this dispute peacefully it should turn
away from confrontation and support our approach to Acas in a bid to find a
breakthrough.
Despite intense discussions that ran late into the evening, I regret to
inform you that the T&G trade union has informed us that it intends to
still go ahead with its strike action, starting early next week.
The T&G has confirmed to us that it will call upon its cabin crew members
to strike on Tuesday, January 30 and Wednesday, January 31 as well as
February 5, 6, 7 and again on February 12, 13 and 14.
We are bitterly disappointed that the T&G has refused to respond positively
to the serious proposals we have made, choosing instead to confirm a
48-hour stoppage for next week that will wreck the travel plans of hundreds
of thousands of our customers.
Let me be clear, the T&G did not need to take this action. You can see for
yourselves from the attached letter we gave to them this evening that the
T&G had, and still has, every opportunity to call off this strike.
We have accepted the T&G’s proposal to improve the application of the EG300
absence management policy. We have also put forward a solution on pay, as
part of our upcoming wage round. Despite these positive approaches, the T&G
has rejected our position out of hand.
We must now do what we can to mitigate the impact on our customers. Later
today (Thursday, January 25), we plan to publish details of the flight
programme we plan to operate on Tuesday and Wednesday of next week, and
intensify our efforts to help people whose flights will be cancelled
because of this unnecessary and unjustified strike.
If the T&G is serious about solving this dispute peacefully it should turn
away from confrontation and support our approach to Acas in a bid to find a
breakthrough.
Mr J Dromey
Deputy General Secretary
Transport and General Workers’ Union
128 Theobalds Road
Holborn
London WC1X 8TN
Wednesday, January 24, 2007
Dear Jack
At this critical stage in our negotiations, I thought it would be helpful to clarify the airline’s position on the two crucial issues that have been the focus of our discussions during the past 24 hours, absence and pay.
On absence, the company is prepared to accept the proposal put forward by your representatives today to improve the application of EG300, with one minor exception relating to the definition of good attendance. We would propose utilising 24 months rather than 12 months.
On pay, the company will convene a joint meeting of all the bargaining groups in order to commence wage negotiations, which will then take place in the individual National Sectional Panels (NSPs). At the cabin crew NSP, our proposal will be to use part of the mandate to address your key claim for an extension to the incremental pay scale for main crew who joined after 1997.
I believe this represents a way forward that allows you to call off the two days of industrial action in the week of January 29 and the three days of action in the week of February 5, as we have discussed.
Yours sincerely
Willie Walsh
Chief Executive"
Deputy General Secretary
Transport and General Workers’ Union
128 Theobalds Road
Holborn
London WC1X 8TN
Wednesday, January 24, 2007
Dear Jack
At this critical stage in our negotiations, I thought it would be helpful to clarify the airline’s position on the two crucial issues that have been the focus of our discussions during the past 24 hours, absence and pay.
On absence, the company is prepared to accept the proposal put forward by your representatives today to improve the application of EG300, with one minor exception relating to the definition of good attendance. We would propose utilising 24 months rather than 12 months.
On pay, the company will convene a joint meeting of all the bargaining groups in order to commence wage negotiations, which will then take place in the individual National Sectional Panels (NSPs). At the cabin crew NSP, our proposal will be to use part of the mandate to address your key claim for an extension to the incremental pay scale for main crew who joined after 1997.
I believe this represents a way forward that allows you to call off the two days of industrial action in the week of January 29 and the three days of action in the week of February 5, as we have discussed.
Yours sincerely
Willie Walsh
Chief Executive"
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BA and the Cabin Crew both lose out with a strike. But think of poor old Gordon Brown and the loss of all those passenger taxes. At least it will give an iceberg 2 mins more life with no flights going.
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Just in case any non-UK readers aren't familiar with the reference to 'Acas' in BA's letter -
Does anyone know why Bassa refuses to accept BA's proposal to refer the dispute to Acas?
Acas = Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service.
It's an independent body governed by leading figures from business, unions, independent sectors and academics.
It became a household name (and earned a lot of respect) in the days of industrial unrest in the UK from the late 1970s to the mid 1980s.
It offers neutral advice on ways of dealing with disputes, a conciliation service (a 'go-between') and a full arbitration service in which it gets the opposing sides around a table and acts as a neutral third party in discussions in an attempt to avoid a strike.
The procedure is voluntary: Both sides have to agree to refer a dispute to Acas.
__________________Does anyone know why Bassa refuses to accept BA's proposal to refer the dispute to Acas?
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Get real
Finals, I'm sure you mean well, as do most who post, but if your take on my trying desperately to convince Crew to wake up and smell the future is a 'good rant', then that's OK by me.
We're in trouble; deep dudu. It's so obvious on the sidelines ( long service BA worker, Crew partner, 2 lovely kids, huge mortgage, old car ) that Crew are stumbling over an edge here, and it's SO POINTLESS!!!!!
They ( or you ? ) are being so badly advised from a TU that has a huge alternative agenda, and the result will be absolutely awful for all of us. This doesn't mean that there is no sympathy for 1, or at a stretch 2 of the demands, but there is NO support for a walk out.
My title 'get real', refers to the fact that sadly Crew are truly unrealistic about their pay and conditions. Although our social life is peppered with Crew, and my partner is a purser, I genuinely believe that they have been totally feather-bedded for far too long, and those who have seen real life before crew, agree.
We're in trouble; deep dudu. It's so obvious on the sidelines ( long service BA worker, Crew partner, 2 lovely kids, huge mortgage, old car ) that Crew are stumbling over an edge here, and it's SO POINTLESS!!!!!
They ( or you ? ) are being so badly advised from a TU that has a huge alternative agenda, and the result will be absolutely awful for all of us. This doesn't mean that there is no sympathy for 1, or at a stretch 2 of the demands, but there is NO support for a walk out.
My title 'get real', refers to the fact that sadly Crew are truly unrealistic about their pay and conditions. Although our social life is peppered with Crew, and my partner is a purser, I genuinely believe that they have been totally feather-bedded for far too long, and those who have seen real life before crew, agree.
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Hit the nail on the head there Deltahero. As I posted earlier some people are not on the same planet as the rest of us if they think they are poorly paid and over worked. I can’t see why the CC are going to strike to be honest. The difference between what they are asking for and what they are being offered is not such a big deal that it is worth losing their jobs in my humble opinion. But hey I’ve been out there working in the real world for 20 years so what would I know? In fact I’ll swap my job for a CC job for a while if they’d like. I may earn a bit more but I work a damned sight harder for it I can assure you.
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BA will cancel all flights ex LHR and all Euro/Domestic flights ex LGW on Tues & Wed next week
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6297059.stm
Jordan
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6297059.stm
From BA Website:
British Airways will not operate any passenger flights out of London Heathrow from 0001 GMT on Tuesday January 30 until 2359 GMT on Wednesday January 31 due to a planned strike by the cabin crew branch of the Transport & General Workers Union. All domestic and European flights to and from London Gatwick have also been cancelled.
The strike action will also impact services into London Heathrow and London Gatwick on Tuesday 30 January and Wednesday 31 January.
The airline remains committed to pursuit of a negotiated settlement before next Tuesday but wants customers to have early warning of its flying schedule to allow sufficient time for alternative travel arrangements to be made.
British Airways will not operate any passenger flights out of London Heathrow from 0001 GMT on Tuesday January 30 until 2359 GMT on Wednesday January 31 due to a planned strike by the cabin crew branch of the Transport & General Workers Union. All domestic and European flights to and from London Gatwick have also been cancelled.
The strike action will also impact services into London Heathrow and London Gatwick on Tuesday 30 January and Wednesday 31 January.
The airline remains committed to pursuit of a negotiated settlement before next Tuesday but wants customers to have early warning of its flying schedule to allow sufficient time for alternative travel arrangements to be made.
Junior trash
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They're strinking because BASSA told them to.
If you dont work in BA the hold BASSA have over the crew is difficult to understand. Their first point of contact is BASSA not the company. As an extreme example I landed in BKK about 90 mins after the coup, who do you think the crew rang first. Cabin Crew management? BA Security? Foreign Office? British Embassy? No BASSA (because obviously know about the situation on the streets)
If you dont work in BA the hold BASSA have over the crew is difficult to understand. Their first point of contact is BASSA not the company. As an extreme example I landed in BKK about 90 mins after the coup, who do you think the crew rang first. Cabin Crew management? BA Security? Foreign Office? British Embassy? No BASSA (because obviously know about the situation on the streets)
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Bottom line. Most of you are worth £20k tops. A few are worth up to £30k.
The generous staff travel (giving away the product) the pensions and the general sense of being professionals will all have to go. You are workers, not too dissimilar to cleaners or check in staff.
You don't like it I know. But your 'profession' is jaxed. This is your waterloo. Prepare to lose. Its your own militant fault and that of your union. The pilots and BALPA have managed their similar decline much more favourably.
BASSA are led by people with less than 24 UCAS points.
Cheers
AP
The generous staff travel (giving away the product) the pensions and the general sense of being professionals will all have to go. You are workers, not too dissimilar to cleaners or check in staff.
You don't like it I know. But your 'profession' is jaxed. This is your waterloo. Prepare to lose. Its your own militant fault and that of your union. The pilots and BALPA have managed their similar decline much more favourably.
BASSA are led by people with less than 24 UCAS points.
Cheers
AP
Guys
unacustomed as I am to public ranting.....
There's been a lot of talk of BA crew being "above the average", especially when it comes to pay or days off.
Just a reminder, by it's very nature somebody always will be above the average and, IMHO, as the flag carrier. their T and C's should be above the average.... as for sickness, I'll get my ( white) coat.
Regards from the "blinkered Fl;ight Crew"
unacustomed as I am to public ranting.....
There's been a lot of talk of BA crew being "above the average", especially when it comes to pay or days off.
Just a reminder, by it's very nature somebody always will be above the average and, IMHO, as the flag carrier. their T and C's should be above the average.... as for sickness, I'll get my ( white) coat.
Regards from the "blinkered Fl;ight Crew"