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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 25th Feb 2022, 16:24
  #1521 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
By virtue of Poland being an EU member, I'm assuming that it is up to the individual member states to make that decision and not the collective EU.
Sounds like an EU member being free to exercise it's own sovereignty.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 16:35
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Wreckage from last nights shooting down over Kyiv. SU-25?

https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/1...989456406?s=21
It is an Su-27 Flanker. This was a Ukrainian Air Force Su-27.

You can see the infra-red search and track housing.



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Old 25th Feb 2022, 17:08
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'A Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-27 fighter jet was shot down over Kyiv early Friday, Ukrainian Deputy Interior Minister Evgeny Yenin tells CNN's Matthew Chance.'
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 17:23
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Third ship, Japanese bulk carrier, hit by Russian fire.

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Old 25th Feb 2022, 17:26
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 17:28
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I'm bemused by these shipping attacks. What's the purpose? Affecting UA economy?
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 17:30
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Originally Posted by MPN11
I'm bemused by these shipping attacks. What's the purpose? Affecting UA economy?
It is strange - intentionally attacking another country's shipping can be considered an act of war. Is Putin taunting the West?
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 17:33
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I do think Putin might be thinking what sh*tstorm have I unleashed and it’s all coming back at me, protests in Russia and his easy walkover not going to plan with a country that will not forget nor forgive, plus the inevitable fall out with his economy, his population and his cohorts, I do wonder if he might be in line for accidentally falling out of a window.

All of that means he probably has to see it through.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 17:43
  #1529 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer
It is strange - intentionally attacking another country's shipping can be considered an act of war. Is Putin taunting the West?
Quite possible that the missile was targetted against the land, but was flying sufficiently low that it simply collided with the ship. That seems to fit the observable evidence (that I have seen, so far) re the hits on the Yasa Jupiter and the Namura Queen.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 17:49
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Originally Posted by Davef68
Putin's latest . What's the fear of NATO? Just cold war paranoia?
Somebody posted this article earlier - interesting if long read, giving a Russian pespective

Back in 1990, however, NATO could at least be considered a “defense” organization. The alliance and most of its members have launched a number of aggressive military campaigns since then – against the remnants of Yugoslavia, as well as in Iraq and Libya.
Another frustrating misstep was our involvement in the NATO-Russia Council after the Yugoslavia aggression. The topics discussed at that level desperately lacked substance. They should’ve focused on the truly significant issue – restraining the alliance’s expansion and the buildup of its military infrastructure near the Russian borders. Sadly, this never made it to the agenda. The Council continued to operate even after the majority of NATO members started a war in Iraq and then Libya in 2011.

It is very unfortunate that we never got the nerve to openly say it – NATO had become an aggressor that committed numerous war crimes. This would’ve been a sobering truth for various political circles in Europe, like in Finland and Sweden for example, where some are considering the advantages of joining the organization. And all the others for that matter, with their mantra about NATO being a defense and deterrence alliance that needs to be further consolidated so it can stand against imaginary enemies.
https://www.rt.com/russia/550271-put...oreign-policy/
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 17:51
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RT is really not the source one would be looking for in need of objective analysis of anything. It is Kremlins propaganda machine.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 18:05
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Originally Posted by Thrust Augmentation
Or possibly reversed back onto the road?
But did they have to go back over the vehicle again?
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 18:05
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Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj
Sorry Pr00ne, but I am very ashamed to say that after the non-action from the West, I disagree with you.

When it comes to sanctions, Western Leaders are not prepared to unleash everything - they are still holding something in reserve'. Biden said he will 'consider sanctioning Putin himself if he escalates further'. My God, what does Putin have to do - invading a sovreign, democratic and peaceful country is not enough? I am truly ashamed to be British.

It is clear that the West are terrified of upsetting Putin and frightened of him. If Putin decides to invade Poland next, and says very clearly that he will use Nukes to annihilate any nation that gets in his way (as he has effectively said, albeit very thinly veiled, over Unkraine), do you honestly believe Article 5 will stand resolute and strong? I do not believe it will. When the UK are faced with the prospect of London, Birmingham, Manchester etc being wiped off the face of the planet, with tens of millions of deaths, as a price for defending a country where probably 99% of Brits have never been and which many could not locate on a map, do you really think Article 5 will hold? These nations are frightened to apply full sanctions and you think they will risk being Nuked to help a distant neighbour?

I admire your faith, but the facts tell me otherwise. Putin now rightly sees the West and weak and cowardly. He can take whatever he wants, whilst holding the world to nuclear ransom, and he knows it. The West will cave in, and Putin will absolutely not stop at Ukraine. He can smell the weakness and fear.
I was going to write what utter boloux, but forum rules, I think, prevent me from being that forthright about the views of another poster, so I will simply say....

You are wrong in the same way we were wrong not to stop hitter before he started WW2 and wrong not to force Stalin back to his pre WW2 borders with the threat of the atom bomb in 1945, when he didn't have one. We left Poland in a worse situation than when Hitler invaded and lets not mention the Polish officers that we repatriated to be imprisoned and murdered by Stalin. THAT made me very ashamed to be British.

The Poles have come to the aid of the Ukrainian's and opened their borders to them. The Poles came to the aid of the UK in WW2 and we betrayed them in 1945 by swapping Hitler for Stalin. I don't think the Ukrainian's will ever betray them and I hope that the UK will not do so again either.

For the record, I have been to Poland.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 18:09
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 18:22
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Harder line coming out of the Extraordinary Summit of the NATO Bucharest Nine in Warsaw (with the particpation of U vdL). Need for harder sanctions and supply of arms.
Bulgarian President Rumen Radev (ex-Maj Gen commanding the Bulgarian Airforce) was particularly forthright as were the Baltic states presidents.
Its clear they know they need to stand together, and a not too concealed view that their own peace and security is under attack.
A call from one of the Baltic leaders for rapid EU accession for Ukraine.

I'm not sure the BBC has heard of the Bucharest 9 never mind the summit. However. listening to their World Service early, a Ukranian (possibly a minister) was warning that they may turn off the gas pipelines to 'prevent the danger of explosions'.

China has announced that it is lifting its restrictions on imports of Russian wheat, apparently agreed at the recent Sino-Russian summit.

Interfax-Ukraine is reporting: Authorities call on NATO, USA, Europe to close skies over Ukraine – Ukrainian PM (193525B feb 22)

The authorities are calling on NATO, the United States and Europe to close the skies over Ukraine, impose an embargo on oil products from Russia and disconnect Russia from SWIFT, Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal has said."I want to appeal to our international partners. For every nation there are defining moments that then become part of the history books, moments when you must decide whether to swallow what the aggressor does or fight back. And now, in fact, it is that moment," Shmyhal said at a briefing on Friday in Kyiv.

The prime minister said that the authorities call on all civilized countries to impose an embargo on oil products from Russia, to ban the entry of Russian citizens into your territory and disconnect the Russian Federation from SWIFT.

In addition, the authorities are calling on NATO, the United States and Europe to close the skies over Ukraine.

"This will not mean your military clash with Russia, it will mean that they stopped the war and descendants will remember you as heroes," Shmyhal said.

Indicative they think the Russians will soon or already have complete control of the air?

Last edited by SLXOwft; 25th Feb 2022 at 18:45. Reason: adding wheat; Shymhal statement
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 18:51
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Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy
Su-27. But was it Russian or Ukrainian?
Ukrainian.




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Old 25th Feb 2022, 18:54
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Major NATO demonstration today of continuous CAPs with tanker support of the entire mainland NATO area.

Typhoons from Akrotiri mounting CAPs over Romania - earlier F/A-18s off a CVN in the Med were doing the same.


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Old 25th Feb 2022, 19:00
  #1538 (permalink)  
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 19:01
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Originally Posted by goofer3
But just to make sure of doing a good job, they reversed back over it again...
There is a bit longer video of that hit. No markings (white Z, triangle, V....whatever). Wonder who IS driving it?
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 19:08
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From NBC News, 25th Feb 2022

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said Friday that cyberattacks could trigger Article 5 of the organization's charter, the so-called "commitment clause" that considers an attack on any NATO ally an attack on all.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...#liveBlogCards

On a separate note, walked past Leinster House, the seat of the Irish parliament earlier this evening, it's lit up in Blue and Yellow.

JAS
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