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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:13
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Go on, tell us how Russia invading Ukraine is Nigel Farages fault. I’ve heard some wacky stuff being blamed on Brexit, but this tops the lot!
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:23
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Footage from near Kiev.


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Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:23
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I take it he is after the airfields as he will need facilities for his helicopters, fuel supplies etc.


Do we not have the facilities to use cyber attacks back at them. After all by taking down some of Ukraines sites they will having be effects on the west.
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:27
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Originally Posted by Beamr
Unmarked soldiers attacking Ukraine.... should they be "treated as spies and sabotoeurs the Russian style" instead of POW's.
That was my point...
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:32
  #1325 (permalink)  
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Best case is the government relocates to Lviv and organises a resistance from there. If Russia doesn’t seize the whole country it could end up like West Germany/Bonn….
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:34
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Caught the special session of the UN Security Council on CSPAN late last night, as the Ukrainian ambassador addressed the members.
Current president of the UN Security council is: Russian. (He didn't say much, mostly called on the various other speakers).
The Albanian ambassador roundly condemned the attack on Ukraine, which I am sure will upset Vlad to no end. Likewise with the Irish one.
French ambassador (I missed the German one, tuned in after it had started) issued a strongly worded condemnation.
Ukrainian ambassador told the Security Council president (the Russian guy) that he ought to vacate his seat, since his country had started a war.
This all about an hour after Putin announced the beginning of the "special military operation" (which is a curious thing to call an invasion).

Switched over to a few other channels and saw reports of air assault/paratroops coming into Kiev airport (or the one closest to it) and various reports of.
Guessing that tactical surprise was achieved, or the air defense grid had been previously disabled before that move was made.
Cyber attacks and efforts to disable Ukranian command and control were also reported, unsure of how good the info was.
Went to bed wondering what I'd see in the morning: it would appear that Ukranian command and control has been badly compromised at this point.

How depressing. A number of commenters (wife was still watching when I went to bed, she's not working today) described this as a blitzkrieg, and I think that's an apt description.
The move on Odessa isn't a surprise, but how well is it being resisted?
Perhaps todays new will tell.

The UN has a lot of good features, but as a collective security organization it's been shown to be mostly ineffective (starting with the break up of Yugoslavia, early 90's) but other examples abound. You could see the frustration on the Ukranian ambassadors face as he was speaking. We have a number of friends who worked in Ukraine back in the 90's and married local gals; they now live here.
They've got to be worried sick about their families back home.

For Nut Loose:
I take it he is after the airfields as he will need facilities for his helicopters, fuel supplies etc.
Do we not have the facilities to use cyber attacks back at them. After all by taking down some of Ukraines sites they will having be effects on the west.
My guess is that he's gonna use the airfields to flow in more forces to key cities. They needed to grab those air heads to get control of the cities, and if they've got air superiority it will be tough to stop that flow.
(The reports last night were of special ops folks running around Kiev targeting various Ukraine leadership but I am uncertain of how good that info is)
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:37
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Probably a very dumb question ...but I'm going to ask it...
With all this going on, there have obviously been a few Int flights from the UK (as seen on a well known virt radar site).

..Now my question is why do they continue to fly all the way from the UK....loiter a bit and do their thing and then return all the way home again.
Why do they not re locate to somewhere closer in mainland Europe and base there...giving them shorter transits and longer loiters?

Is it just the ground support needed would be too much to move?
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:41
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Best case is the government relocates to Lviv and organises a resistance from there. If Russia doesn’t seize the whole country it could end up like West Germany/Bonn….
You are living in hope that it will stop with Ukraine.

Ukraine is being used to define the resolve of NATO and the West, and their commitment to go military when pushed.

Remember the Russia/China meeting? They sure were not talking about downhill skiing. Nope China is using Russia to push hard enough to see where NATO, Europe and the West's commitment breaks down
This test is being conducted in the towns and cities of Ukraine. Another one of these domino tactics while "not having to fire a shot" .

Russia and China are already mapping out their next dominos.

IG
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:45
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Possibly a Ka-52 Hokum downed? The Mi-28 Havoc doesn't have the ejection seat system fitted. At least one crew member in parachute after ejection?

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Old 24th Feb 2022, 13:54
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Originally Posted by Imagegear
You are living in hope that it will stop with Ukraine.
Ukraine is being used to define the resolve of NATO and the West, and their commitment to go military when pushed.
???
How do you test resolve of an alliance by attacking a Country which is not part of said alliance???
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:03
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Originally Posted by NAROBS
By the look on Lavrov's face in his meeting with Ms Truss three weeks ago, . . . . I'd say not.
The Bellingcat article you linked is dated 5th November 2021
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:06
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Originally Posted by Imagegear
You are living in hope that it will stop with Ukraine.

Ukraine is being used to define the resolve of NATO and the West, and their commitment to go military when pushed.

Remember the Russia/China meeting? They sure were not talking about downhill skiing. Nope China is using Russia to push hard enough to see where NATO, Europe and the West's commitment breaks down
This test is being conducted in the towns and cities of Ukraine. Another one of these domino tactics while "not having to fire a shot" .

Russia and China are already mapping out their next dominos.

IG
It would seem that there a LOT of shots being fired!
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:07
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Originally Posted by henra
???
How do you test resolve of an alliance by attacking a Country which is not part of said alliance???
Yes, Ukraine is not a member of NATO, however, many members of NATO perceive Ukraine as a Ally requiring assistance when under attack, whether the force is called NATO or allied forces Europe, or just a grouping of like-minded allies.

It's a question of good against evil, and every good man etc...

IG
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:08
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Plenty of scope for red-on-red's, given everyone's operating more-or-less the same kit. I doubt the Russians will that bothered though, just blame everything on the Ukrainians.

God I hate the Beeb's coverage. Lyse Doucet and George Myrie looked almost orgasmic that they were in the midst of this.
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:10
  #1335 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
It would seem that there a LOT of shots being fired!
China won't need to fire a shot if Russia does the dirty work.

IG
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:12
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At which stage is the Ukraine justified to not just defend itself, but to attack Russia ?
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:14
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I think that the Taiwanese Armed Forces would disagree with you VERY strongly.
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:17
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Originally Posted by Imagegear
Yes, Ukraine is not a member of NATO, however, many members of NATO perceive Ukraine as a Ally requiring assistance when under attack, whether the force is called NATO or allied forces Europe, or just a grouping of like-minded allies.

It's a question of good against evil, and every good man etc...
That may all be true but still is not a test of the resolve of NATO in case a NATO Country would be attacked. There are clear regulations and mechanisms. Perceived justice is not part of such considerations.
Private persons can strap on their fighting boots, get in a car and get into the fight but for Governments and Armies this is not something that would be done by stomach feeling.
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:20
  #1339 (permalink)  
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Don’t assume China is happy…..

https://www.politico.eu/article/russ...-bind-ukraine/

Putin puts China in a bind
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Old 24th Feb 2022, 14:23
  #1340 (permalink)  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/nava...-russian-fire/

Ukraine naval base drew Putin’s wrath, then Russian fire
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