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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 25th Feb 2022, 13:44
  #1481 (permalink)  
 
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To put peace keepers into a country is noble . But there has to be a desire for peace on both sides . Eight years of ignoring a peace agreement and breaking ceasefire agreements . It will not be easy to bring peace to a region filled with heavily armed gangsters .
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 13:45
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
Are you insane? You seriously want the UK, as part of NATO, to attack the Russians? A nuclear armed state with a President who has made it very clear that he will use nuclear weapons against any intervention? I have no qualms about you feeling ashamed, that's your beef, but the UK has no need to feel ANY shame in the present circumstances.
For a supposedly smart person, please point out where I said attack? I will give you a hint, read my post, I have copied the part over to make it easy for you.. heck I have even highlighted it.

I did hope they would have attempted to put some form of peace keeping into the Country, instead all the west seem to be able to do is light up a few poxy buildings with blue and yellow while standing back and watching a Country and its people get destroyed.. AND I do not think he will stop there.
Nato no possibly not, but as Signatures on the disarmament agreement, individual Countries possibly yes, boots on the ground as peace keepers do not have to be involved in fighting, but they would have been a better deterrent than a bunch of half arsed sanctions that keep getting kicked down the road
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 13:47
  #1483 (permalink)  
 
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Trying hard to stay out of this, but surely those who are howling for NATO intervention are failing to think things through !
There would be no "Marching up the Mall" because there would very likely be no Mall to march up !
Not in any way condoning Russian activities, just aware that NATO intervention would surely end in tears !
Other solutions must be explored long before NATO intervention !
If there are going to be "sanctions" then those who are responsible and able to apply them should ruddy well start walking the walk !
Same old Crap from the Pollies :-(

El Grifo
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 14:00
  #1484 (permalink)  
 
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To put peace keepers into a country is noble . But there has to be a desire for peace on both sides . Eight years of ignoring a peace agreement and breaking ceasefire agreements . It will not be easy to bring peace to a region filled with heavily armed gangsters .
Absolutely correct, however the 'peacekeepers' must be acceptable to all actors. As soon as the Russians and their puppets withdraw put down their weapons and go home retreat to their own country there is a chance of peace breaking out.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 14:12
  #1485 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
Utter utter nonsense!

Have you ever heard of a thing called NATO, and Article 5?
Sorry Pr00ne, but I am very ashamed to say that after the non-action from the West, I disagree with you.

When it comes to sanctions, Western Leaders are not prepared to unleash everything - they are still holding something in reserve'. Biden said he will 'consider sanctioning Putin himself if he escalates further'. My God, what does Putin have to do - invading a sovreign, democratic and peaceful country is not enough? I am truly ashamed to be British.

It is clear that the West are terrified of upsetting Putin and frightened of him. If Putin decides to invade Poland next, and says very clearly that he will use Nukes to annihilate any nation that gets in his way (as he has effectively said, albeit very thinly veiled, over Unkraine), do you honestly believe Article 5 will stand resolute and strong? I do not believe it will. When the UK are faced with the prospect of London, Birmingham, Manchester etc being wiped off the face of the planet, with tens of millions of deaths, as a price for defending a country where probably 99% of Brits have never been and which many could not locate on a map, do you really think Article 5 will hold? These nations are frightened to apply full sanctions and you think they will risk being Nuked to help a distant neighbour?

I admire your faith, but the facts tell me otherwise. Putin now rightly sees the West and weak and cowardly. He can take whatever he wants, whilst holding the world to nuclear ransom, and he knows it. The West will cave in, and Putin will absolutely not stop at Ukraine. He can smell the weakness and fear.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 14:31
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If Putin stops at Ukraine, the West will do nothing..if he crosses into the Baltic states, or Poland, then all bets are off...
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 14:36
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Now being reported as Moldovan flagged, not Romanian - but the second ship under fire in 2 days (the other was Turkish out of Odessa)

https://twitter.com/alexkokcharov/st...557457925?s=21
Genuine question, would an attack on a flagged merchant ship of a NATO member in the Black Sea region be sufficient provocation to meet "The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all ..."

JAS
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 14:43
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Originally Posted by ATSA1
If Putin stops at Ukraine, the West will do nothing..if he crosses into the Baltic states, or Poland, then all bets are off...
Hmmmm and that was said about sanctions, remember? those ones such as cutting them off from Swift if they stepped over the border................. still awaiting that one, normal bluster and no follow through by a bunch of lilly livered politicians the world over. FOR GAWD sake man up and do what you said you would.

Ukraine says it hands out 18,000 machine guns to Kyiv volunteers





BBC
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 14:44
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Baldeep.:

We think alike.

I will also say as I have said before, Ukraine is just a test. Xi has cooked up a scheme with Putin to test NATO's and the West's resolve.

They are getting the results of their probing as we speak.

IG

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Old 25th Feb 2022, 14:45
  #1490 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by beardy
Absolutely correct, however the 'peacekeepers' must be acceptable to all actors. As soon as the Russians and their puppets withdraw put down their weapons and go home retreat to their own country there is a chance of peace breaking out.
I was referring to prior to engagement just after the recognition of the two states, that is when they should have been put in to the Ukraine held disputed areas.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 14:48
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
Have you ever heard of a thing called NATO, and Article 5?
Nothing in the articles prohibit coming to the aid of a non-NATO state. Indeed, nation states have supremacy over their actions, not NATO. Any nation state can chose to help another in such circumstances, even one that is also part of NATO. We, the UK, have conducted numerous operation in recent years outside of the NATO umbrella. Indeed, I can only think of 2 that have ever been under NATO and only 1 under article 5.

The balance is between the dignity and integrity in defending a fellow democracy vs the risk of further escalation. Tricky, for sure.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 14:54
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On another note - does anyone seriously believe that increased sanctions will solve this?

Russia still has access to the SWIFT banking system and we are still heavy users of Russian oil and gas - but these are “strict” sanctions ??
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 15:02
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Probable War Crime - no doubt from this view its a civilian vehicle that the tracked vehicle deliberately crushed.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 15:19
  #1494 (permalink)  
 
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where are all those Anti Tank missiles when you need one? Surely armoured vehicles in a built up area are ripe for a Javelin or two?
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 15:24
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Maybe some unofficial help, like those little green men from Russia.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 15:24
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It's a shame we can't order something particularly nasty for Putin off Amazon and get it next day delivered... and while we are at it, some Testoterone and Viagra for Biden.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 15:31
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Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09
Probable War Crime - no doubt from this view its a civilian vehicle that the tracked vehicle deliberately crushed. https://twitter.com/WW32022/status/1497219112015118353
There is more to that than meets the eye. I can't imagine a tank or apc caring much about a car unless it was sporting an rpg or something. More like something out of shot caused it to swerve and it just hit the car.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 15:31
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Given the resistance, how long do you think a puppet government will survive if it goes that way, I doubt they would be able to muster security from their own "electorate" especially as every Tom, Dick and Harry in the capital now have AK47's
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 15:32
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Originally Posted by munnst
There is more to that than meets the eye. I can't imagine a tank or apc caring much about a car unless it was sporting an rpg or something. More like something out of shot caused it to swerve and it just hit the car.
I wondered if they feared a suicide bomber so neutralised the threat.
Mind you this shows another skidding out of control

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-60521070


..

Last edited by NutLoose; 25th Feb 2022 at 15:43.
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 15:33
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Out if interest Nutloose, what do you think Biden could possibly do, without escalating the already delicate situation into an extremely dangerous, possibly catastrophic situation.
Unless of course you think the Nuclear option is a valid one !
Genuinely interested in hearing any creative way out of this delicate but nasty situation.
I for one, would suggest some actual, solid sanctions, instead of the existing pizz-poor, hollow, verbal versions !

El Grifo
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