Is Ukraine about to have a war?
From NBC News, 25th Feb 2022
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...#liveBlogCards
On a separate note, walked past Leinster House, the seat of the Irish parliament earlier this evening, it's lit up in Blue and Yellow.
JAS
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...#liveBlogCards
On a separate note, walked past Leinster House, the seat of the Irish parliament earlier this evening, it's lit up in Blue and Yellow.
JAS
Vlad must be simply pissing himself with laughter.
Peacekeepers in the face of a 5 pronged multi thousand troop armoured and airborne assault? The effect would be the same, we would be at war with Russia and that would be catastrophic for humanity.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Looks like BA taken down with a cyber attack, retaliation for ban on Russian airlines in UK airspace?
https://twitter.com/metrouk/status/1497303306175238145?s=21
https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1497313024360824834?s=21
https://twitter.com/metrouk/status/1497303306175238145?s=21
https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1497313024360824834?s=21
Last edited by ORAC; 25th Feb 2022 at 19:58.
Sorry Pr00ne, but I am very ashamed to say that after the non-action from the West, I disagree with you.
When it comes to sanctions, Western Leaders are not prepared to unleash everything - they are still holding something in reserve'. Biden said he will 'consider sanctioning Putin himself if he escalates further'. My God, what does Putin have to do - invading a sovreign, democratic and peaceful country is not enough? I am truly ashamed to be British.
It is clear that the West are terrified of upsetting Putin and frightened of him. If Putin decides to invade Poland next, and says very clearly that he will use Nukes to annihilate any nation that gets in his way (as he has effectively said, albeit very thinly veiled, over Unkraine), do you honestly believe Article 5 will stand resolute and strong? I do not believe it will. When the UK are faced with the prospect of London, Birmingham, Manchester etc being wiped off the face of the planet, with tens of millions of deaths, as a price for defending a country where probably 99% of Brits have never been and which many could not locate on a map, do you really think Article 5 will hold? These nations are frightened to apply full sanctions and you think they will risk being Nuked to help a distant neighbour?
I admire your faith, but the facts tell me otherwise. Putin now rightly sees the West and weak and cowardly. He can take whatever he wants, whilst holding the world to nuclear ransom, and he knows it. The West will cave in, and Putin will absolutely not stop at Ukraine. He can smell the weakness and fear.
When it comes to sanctions, Western Leaders are not prepared to unleash everything - they are still holding something in reserve'. Biden said he will 'consider sanctioning Putin himself if he escalates further'. My God, what does Putin have to do - invading a sovreign, democratic and peaceful country is not enough? I am truly ashamed to be British.
It is clear that the West are terrified of upsetting Putin and frightened of him. If Putin decides to invade Poland next, and says very clearly that he will use Nukes to annihilate any nation that gets in his way (as he has effectively said, albeit very thinly veiled, over Unkraine), do you honestly believe Article 5 will stand resolute and strong? I do not believe it will. When the UK are faced with the prospect of London, Birmingham, Manchester etc being wiped off the face of the planet, with tens of millions of deaths, as a price for defending a country where probably 99% of Brits have never been and which many could not locate on a map, do you really think Article 5 will hold? These nations are frightened to apply full sanctions and you think they will risk being Nuked to help a distant neighbour?
I admire your faith, but the facts tell me otherwise. Putin now rightly sees the West and weak and cowardly. He can take whatever he wants, whilst holding the world to nuclear ransom, and he knows it. The West will cave in, and Putin will absolutely not stop at Ukraine. He can smell the weakness and fear.
The UK Government HAS sanctioned Putin, and his Foreign Secretary. And yes, I do believe that Article 5 will stand if Putin attacks a NATO nation, and any response will not be nuclear. Your pff hand and dismissive remark about Ukraine reminds me of similar remarks made by British politicians about Czechoslovakia in 1939, they were wrong then, and you are wrong now.
I disagree completely with you as regards the west being terrified of Putin. The 'west', what ever that is, are terrified of a nuclear exchange, and I am thankful that they are.
Nothing in the articles prohibit coming to the aid of a non-NATO state. Indeed, nation states have supremacy over their actions, not NATO. Any nation state can chose to help another in such circumstances, even one that is also part of NATO. We, the UK, have conducted numerous operation in recent years outside of the NATO umbrella. Indeed, I can only think of 2 that have ever been under NATO and only 1 under article 5.
The balance is between the dignity and integrity in defending a fellow democracy vs the risk of further escalation. Tricky, for sure.
The balance is between the dignity and integrity in defending a fellow democracy vs the risk of further escalation. Tricky, for sure.
Who is 'we?' The UK takes just under 3% of its Gas supplies from Russia, not 3% of our entire energy consumption, just of gas. Swift is a private Belgian company and is vital for the payment by states like Germany and Italy for their russian energy supplies. To just turn Swift off to Russia would mean instant energy shortages for these and many other nations. It takes time to prepare for such action and make preparations for alternatives. And yes, these are very strict and global sanctions. Unprecedented and I believe unexpected.
From NBC News, 25th Feb 2022
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...#liveBlogCards
On a separate note, walked past Leinster House, the seat of the Irish parliament earlier this evening, it's lit up in Blue and Yellow.
JAS
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...#liveBlogCards
On a separate note, walked past Leinster House, the seat of the Irish parliament earlier this evening, it's lit up in Blue and Yellow.
JAS
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,072
Received 2,940 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,072
Received 2,940 Likes
on
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Peacekeepers from nations that are part of NATO though working independent may have stopped him invading for fear of bringing NATO into it, I for one think his nuclear option is a bluff btw
Council of Europe suspends Russia’s rights of representation
https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/...954041856?s=21
I was going to write what utter boloux, but forum rules, I think, prevent me from being that forthright about the views of another poster, so I will simply say....
You are wrong in the same way we were wrong not to stop hitter before he started WW2 and wrong not to force Stalin back to his pre WW2 borders with the threat of the atom bomb in 1945, when he didn't have one. We left Poland in a worse situation than when Hitler invaded and lets not mention the Polish officers that we repatriated to be imprisoned and murdered by Stalin. THAT made me very ashamed to be British.
The Poles have come to the aid of the Ukrainian's and opened their borders to them. The Poles came to the aid of the UK in WW2 and we betrayed them in 1945 by swapping Hitler for Stalin. I don't think the Ukrainian's will ever betray them and I hope that the UK will not do so again either.
For the record, I have been to Poland.
You are wrong in the same way we were wrong not to stop hitter before he started WW2 and wrong not to force Stalin back to his pre WW2 borders with the threat of the atom bomb in 1945, when he didn't have one. We left Poland in a worse situation than when Hitler invaded and lets not mention the Polish officers that we repatriated to be imprisoned and murdered by Stalin. THAT made me very ashamed to be British.
The Poles have come to the aid of the Ukrainian's and opened their borders to them. The Poles came to the aid of the UK in WW2 and we betrayed them in 1945 by swapping Hitler for Stalin. I don't think the Ukrainian's will ever betray them and I hope that the UK will not do so again either.
For the record, I have been to Poland.
You insinuated that my post might have an air of '2 balls swinging in a sack' about it...
Have all possible sanctions been put in place? The answer is NO!! Where is removal from SWIFT?, Where is Cancellation of all Russian Oil and Gas contracts? Where is the EU and USA refusing travel to Russian passport holders? You said I was talking crap, so please explain how I am wrong here? I said that sanctions were being held back and you described my post as utter boll*cks'. Clearly you know better than the rest of the world, so please enlighten me?
Somebody may indeed by talking through their alimentary canal, but it ain't me.