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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Old 4th Jan 2022, 20:53
  #521 (permalink)  
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https://thehill.com/opinion/internat...sion-of-europe

The Ukraine crisis will end inevitably in a redivision of Europe
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 21:15
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Originally Posted by ORAC
https://thehill.com/opinion/internat...sion-of-europe

The Ukraine crisis will end inevitably in a redivision of Europe
Sensible policy would be to keep military alliances at arms length, while integrating the economies as much as possible.
That allows for a much more expansive union while minimizing the political provocation.
Promoting the military component before the economic elements are in place is not wise, one risks being a potential partner who is too costly to admit.
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 07:56
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https://www.politico.eu/article/nato...iscuss-russia/

NATO calls extraordinary meeting to discuss Russia
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 08:21
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Originally Posted by etudiant
Sensible policy would be to keep military alliances at arms length, while integrating the economies as much as possible.
That allows for a much more expansive union while minimizing the political provocation.
Promoting the military component before the economic elements are in place is not wise, one risks being a potential partner who is too costly to admit.
You forget that it was Ukraine's move towards the European Union that triggered Putin's interventions in the country. It was in response to Putin's actions that membership of NATO was then touted.
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 08:32
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
...it was Ukraine's move towards the European Union that triggered Putin's interventions in the country...
Correct.

Maidan Square. 2014.
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 08:36
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Ukraine is a free country and can join whatever it wants.
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 08:51
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All countries can do whatever they want - but it's generally wise to consider the effects on other people - especially your neighbours.........
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 08:54
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It might be a good idea for Russia to think about this. They will only make everybody want to join NATO. Finally poor Russia can feel threatened over and over again and claim to need to invade everybody else.
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 10:51
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I wonder if part of Vlad's concern WRT Ukraine is that the country already offers more to its citizens in terms of living standards, work opportunities, freedoms, future prospects etc, than "Greater Russia" will ever do under his leadership? And that after only six short years of going it alone.
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 15:37
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It never rains but it pours...

Russia 'attentively' watching events in Kazakhstan

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Old 5th Jan 2022, 20:13
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
I hope the US turn their attention back to Europe now.
Why, is baby sitting still required?
That most stupid "pivot to Asia" declaration massively backfired and invited things nobody wanted.
It was 20 years late.

@melmothw
You forget that it was Ukraine's move towards the European Union that triggered Putin's interventions in the country. It was in response to Putin's actions that membership of NATO was then touted.
beat me to it.
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 21:11
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Russian press reporting that a “peace keeping” force has been dispatched to Kazakhstan to “stabilise” the situation….
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 21:53
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Originally Posted by sfm818
Correct.

Maidan Square. 2014.
Istr that Victoria Nuland, now Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, has a track record in those developments, as discussed here:
https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who...n-policy-team/
Her policies seem to me to produce massive strategic losses for very doubtful tactical gains.

Imho, Russia should be inside the Western tent, ***ing out, rather than outside ***ing in.
Detaching the Ukraine from Russia at the price of forcing Russia into China's orbit just seems dumb to me.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 11:32
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Covert Spetnaz are already operating in Kiev

Covert Russian Spetnaz units 'already in Ukraine right now' warns former US Navy commander (msn.com)
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 13:15
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Russian press reporting that a “peace keeping” force has been dispatched to Kazakhstan to “stabilise” the situation….
There is a new thread for that emerging story.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 13:20
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Originally Posted by etudiant
Imho, Russia should be inside the Western tent, ***ing out, rather than outside ***ing in.
Detaching the Ukraine from Russia at the price of forcing Russia into China's orbit just seems dumb to me.
An opportunity missed in the 90's and 00's, when the thaw was beginning to take hold.
(Partnership for Peace, NATO and Russian troops working together in the Balkans, a desk in Brussels (though obviously not full membership, but a chance for one).
What could have been has been long since overcome by events.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 15:59
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Yes, Russia is a bully. So is China, USA, Germany, France, UK.
USSR/Russia have invaded independent countries. So did the others.
Russia is willing to attack and did attack weak opponents. So did the others.
Calling Russia's demands about removing weapons close to it's borders unreasonable is a joke if you consider hissy fit USA threw when USSR tried to install missiles on Cuba.
Why USA's demands were reasonable and Russia's aren't?
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 16:55
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Originally Posted by admikar
Yes, Russia is a bully. So is China, USA, Germany, France, UK.
USSR/Russia have invaded independent countries. So did the others.
Russia is willing to attack and did attack weak opponents. So did the others.
Calling Russia's demands about removing weapons close to it's borders unreasonable is a joke if you consider hissy fit USA threw when USSR tried to install missiles on Cuba.
Why USA's demands were reasonable and Russia's aren't?
You are missing the point. US never said any country "hey you can't join the Warsow pact" nor ODKB. Russia is now telling its neighboring sovereign countries that they can't join NATO if they want to. Russia is trying to talk to US about european countries without talking to the european countries themselves. What an arrogant a****** Putin is! Who treats their neighbors like that?
This is all just Putin wishing to create a world power and leave his name in history.And just like with the USSR all the neighbors are going to suffer.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 18:49
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Originally Posted by Beamr
You are missing the point. US never said any country "hey you can't join the Warsow pact" nor ODKB. Russia is now telling its neighboring sovereign countries that they can't join NATO if they want to. Russia is trying to talk to US about european countries without talking to the european countries themselves. What an arrogant a****** Putin is! Who treats their neighbors like that?
This is all just Putin wishing to create a world power and leave his name in history.And just like with the USSR all the neighbors are going to suffer.
You mean USA is not saying Germany that it can't buy Russian gas?
Throwing sanctions out against any company that was connected with NS2?
Yes, Putin/Russia is a bully. So are many others, but somehow that is not triggering a lot of you
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 23:20
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The US hasn’t said hey would you like to join our little group, and we will lavish your money on your country building a wall to keep your population in, killing any that decide they do not like our little group.
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