Is Ukraine about to have a war?
Re: training.
It's BS that it takes 5 years to train a front line pilot. Perhaps reasonable in peacetime with the H&S nazi's ruling supreme. Complete bollocks when there is a war on. My uncle was a pilot in Fighter Command in WWII. Went from being recruited to operational flying in 8 months. He had about 300 hours total when he flew his first combat mission (in a Hurricane). He was lucky. Some had less training than he had.
Ukraine has more pilots than aircraft. Converting their pilots from SU-27s to something like Typhoon might take 3 months if we are committed to do it. Might be quicker to train them on the spare Tornado's (assuming they can be made reasonably airworthy) and give them those in the interim. The systems in the Tornado are closer to those in the SU-27.
The normal peacetime airworthiness crap goes out the window when there is a war on. If the thing will fly and fight, use it. Any weapon is better than no weapon. Ukraine aren't going to sue for giving them older aircraft when Russia is trying to bomb them out of existence.
It's BS that it takes 5 years to train a front line pilot. Perhaps reasonable in peacetime with the H&S nazi's ruling supreme. Complete bollocks when there is a war on. My uncle was a pilot in Fighter Command in WWII. Went from being recruited to operational flying in 8 months. He had about 300 hours total when he flew his first combat mission (in a Hurricane). He was lucky. Some had less training than he had.
Ukraine has more pilots than aircraft. Converting their pilots from SU-27s to something like Typhoon might take 3 months if we are committed to do it. Might be quicker to train them on the spare Tornado's (assuming they can be made reasonably airworthy) and give them those in the interim. The systems in the Tornado are closer to those in the SU-27.
The normal peacetime airworthiness crap goes out the window when there is a war on. If the thing will fly and fight, use it. Any weapon is better than no weapon. Ukraine aren't going to sue for giving them older aircraft when Russia is trying to bomb them out of existence.
And, if the original poster who first put up this fantasy does indeed work at a senior level in defence he or she would be well aware of these facts.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Bakhmut Area Frontline Situation 8/02/2023:
Russian forces are leading more than 12 assault directions around Bakhmut.
They have made advances on the NE/N/E/SE/S sides of the city where battles currently rage in residential areas.
Russian forces are leading more than 12 assault directions around Bakhmut.
They have made advances on the NE/N/E/SE/S sides of the city where battles currently rage in residential areas.
While we are having fun with hypotheticals, the traditional word for oxymoron/paradox/conflict/conundrum/contraditction/antilogy in the east is 矛盾, (maodun in Chinese, mujun in Japanese), the pictograms for spear and shield. If Putin wields a spear, and Ukraine holds a shield, which will prevail?
Putin is approaching with weapons. Is Putin a truly irresistible force? Can Uraine truly be an immovable object?
The answer will lie in the ability of one to overpower the other, or the inability of one to match the other. Putin must be thinking of his own blackbelt.
Putin is approaching with weapons. Is Putin a truly irresistible force? Can Uraine truly be an immovable object?
The answer will lie in the ability of one to overpower the other, or the inability of one to match the other. Putin must be thinking of his own blackbelt.
I don't think the free world can afford to allow Ukraine to be defeated. Such an outcome would not be the end of the matter; rather, the start of a grim global future.
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An interesting martial arts analogy. Judo develops the skill of turning one's opponent's strength against them. Guile vs brute force, if you will. Clearly, the Russian way is to favour brute force.
I don't think the free world can afford to allow Ukraine to be defeated. Such an outcome would not be the end of the matter; rather, the start of a grim global future.
I don't think the free world can afford to allow Ukraine to be defeated. Such an outcome would not be the end of the matter; rather, the start of a grim global future.
Looks like a Pyrrhic victory to me, should it happen.
There are ways and means of detecting, preventing and defeating such a threat. They have long been in use against a similar threat from ISIS or similar.
And, if the original poster who first put up this fantasy does indeed work at a senior level in defence he or she would be well aware of these facts.
And, if the original poster who first put up this fantasy does indeed work at a senior level in defence he or she would be well aware of these facts.
Whatever, we need to pull our finger out and drag every bit of surplus kit out of storage and get it serviceable ASAP. call in volunteers to do this if needed. There are a lot of us around that may be old but can still fix kit and get it serviceable. All the government has to do is ask and put the procedures in place to let us do what we know how to do.
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I'm not an expert. Ukraine needs a ground attack capability. They are facing a largely Cold War technology era enemy. The Tornado is old, but is still a capable ground attack platform. Couple it with something able to do high altitude target designation and it would be as useful as the same combination in the Gulf. They need something to tackle the Russian S300 threat as well. Not sure how best to do that. Best thing would be to give Ukraine the kit and let them choose how to use it. So far they have proved they are very competent at doing this.
Whatever, we need to pull our finger out and drag every bit of surplus kit out of storage and get it serviceable ASAP. call in volunteers to do this if needed. There are a lot of us around that may be old but can still fix kit and get it serviceable. All the government has to do is ask and put the procedures in place to let us do what we know how to do.
Whatever, we need to pull our finger out and drag every bit of surplus kit out of storage and get it serviceable ASAP. call in volunteers to do this if needed. There are a lot of us around that may be old but can still fix kit and get it serviceable. All the government has to do is ask and put the procedures in place to let us do what we know how to do.
I don’t think we have any “war reserve” fast jets these days. Nearest thing would be the Jaguar training airframes at Cosford.
Whatever, we need to pull our finger out and drag every bit of surplus kit out of storage and get it serviceable ASAP. call in volunteers to do this if needed. There are a lot of us around that may be old but can still fix kit and get it serviceable. All the government has to do is ask and put the procedures in place to let us do what we know how to do.
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scroll down for some pictures of them
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Again if correct high Russian loses.
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All this equipment is very nice. A few tanks here, a few planes there. Which country is going to bite the bullet and commit to producing and supplying a stream of equipment?
What Ukraine needs is a committed supply of X tanks, X planes, X guns, X drones, X munitions, X trained personnel etc per day.
Dribs and drabs are just extending the conflict.
What Ukraine needs is a committed supply of X tanks, X planes, X guns, X drones, X munitions, X trained personnel etc per day.
Dribs and drabs are just extending the conflict.
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Only half a speed-brake
We rightly err on the side of caution in peacetime. No one wants deaths from airframe risks when not at war. All that shifts when the risk of people dying from not using iffy kit massively exceeds the risk from using it.
We've been at peace for so long we are inherently cautious. Would we be so cautious if Russian forces were dug in along the South Coast of England?
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All this equipment is very nice. A few tanks here, a few planes there. Which country is going to bite the bullet and commit to producing and supplying a stream of equipment?
What Ukraine needs is a committed supply of X tanks, X planes, X guns, X drones, X munitions, X trained personnel etc per day.
Dribs and drabs are just extending the conflict.
What Ukraine needs is a committed supply of X tanks, X planes, X guns, X drones, X munitions, X trained personnel etc per day.
Dribs and drabs are just extending the conflict.
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Ukraine
Oh boy! Ukraine. Give me a Lightning or a Jaguar and I’ll be there! Oops forgot I’m 75 this year! Still there in spirit but capability a bit rundown 👍
Incomers welcome!
Just a light hearted comment from an old Cold War veteran!
Incomers welcome!
Just a light hearted comment from an old Cold War veteran!
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What's life-ex really matter in war? So what if an airframe has theoretically exceeded it's fatigue life. If it can fly for a few tens of hours and help to knock out key Russian assets then that's better than nothing. We all know that life-ex isn't really an accurate assessment of true end of life. We've all seen life-ex airframes get sold and go on to fly in civil roles for years.
We rightly err on the side of caution in peacetime. No one wants deaths from airframe risks when not at war. All that shifts when the risk of people dying from not using iffy kit massively exceeds the risk from using it.
We've been at peace for so long we are inherently cautious. Would we be so cautious if Russian forces were dug in along the South Coast of England?
We rightly err on the side of caution in peacetime. No one wants deaths from airframe risks when not at war. All that shifts when the risk of people dying from not using iffy kit massively exceeds the risk from using it.
We've been at peace for so long we are inherently cautious. Would we be so cautious if Russian forces were dug in along the South Coast of England?
Life ex wings and then heaving them around the skies with 4 thousand pounders, a phimat if they still have any and a compatible ECM pod hanging off them.
You also have a lack of laser designators as I believe the RAF returned them to ferranti who scrapped most, though the odd one appears on EBay. And then trying the get the NavWass working again after all these years.
We do not seem to hold war reserves anymore to the detriment of a case like this, such is the rush to “extract the best return to the taxpayer”
Perhaps give them Hawk T1’s to free up their L39 training fleet, at least they can be used as light attack aircraft
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Does that matter? Did we have enough QFIs to train and sign off every front line pilot in WWII? From what I've heard to we didn't. Pilot's were sent to the front line with minimal training. Especially in the first year or so of the war. There are a host of people that are retired, not current, but that have mountains of experience. I have 22 years experience of fixing kit. Some of that kit is still around in older airframes. There are hundreds like me. Drag us in to help. I'm sure Ukraine would welcome any help at all, even from old-timers that are theoretically life-ex.
We're far too obsessed with the peacetime ethos of safety above all else. All that goes for a ball of chalk when someone's trying hard to kill you.
We're far too obsessed with the peacetime ethos of safety above all else. All that goes for a ball of chalk when someone's trying hard to kill you.
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