Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 7th Dec 2022, 10:41
  #12401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Beamr
How on earth did that happen? I've seen the phrase "What air defence doing?" to exhaustion but now I really am wondering that myself.
To be fair, one of those things also flew over NATO territory recently, and was not shot down:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Zagreb_Tu-141_crash
MikeSnow is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 11:20
  #12402 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Outer ring of HEL
Posts: 1,594
Received 147 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by MikeSnow
To be fair, one of those things also flew over NATO territory recently, and was not shot down:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Zagreb_Tu-141_crash
True, however there is no war going on across those borders.
We can pick up as many peace time examples as we like (Zagreb, Matthias Rust, Kortrijk crash, lake Inari etc) but those were not across a front and all of those were tracked on radar and many intercepted/escorted. But this is not the case with the Engel strike.

To compare with the Engel strike: I trust the air defence in NATO countries would be in a more alert posture if there was an actual war they were involved in and missiles would be coming in from the opposite side, especially if it would be something slowish flying 900km/h for over 600km in essence good 40min in hostile airspace. We are not talking of hypersonic wunderwaffe here.
Beamr is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 11:26
  #12403 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 30,873
Received 1,732 Likes on 746 Posts
Zelensky visiting the wounded soldiers in hospital and handing out awards, the third one is an English speaking guy, (Derek?) nice to see Zelensky addressing him in English and by his name too.



NutLoose is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 11:39
  #12404 (permalink)  
fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 3rd Rock, #29B
Posts: 2,749
Received 707 Likes on 209 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Zelensky visiting the wounded soldiers in hospital and handing out awards, the third one is an English speaking guy, (Derek?) nice to see Zelensky addressing him in English and by his name too.

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...C8vbez7LUsAAAA

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...CxqeOG6LUsAAAA

Not many of our leaders act with the dignity, courage, leadership that Zelenskyy exhibits every day. The Baltic countries seem to be bestowed with some fine leaders at present, but for our own, and the rest of the UN, what on earth did we all do to deserve such a lack of fortitude? Here is a true leader, and war fighters prepared to defend their country against blatant aggression by a brutal neighbour, and we continue to vacillate on giving them the tools to defend themselves. Ukrainians are dying because of our leaders lack of moral fortitude, and our concerns on the price of a gallon of gas. As a consequence of the half hearted response that has been given, more Russian cannon fodder will also be turned into fertiliser.

fdr is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 12:16
  #12405 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 30,873
Received 1,732 Likes on 746 Posts
Bomb disposal visiting Chernobaivka, you can see the captured Russian Hind that the guy was swinging on the rotors of, and also the recaptured Ukrainian Mil-17 that looks like it has been used as a spares ship.

NutLoose is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 12:20
  #12406 (permalink)  

Evertonian
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: #3117# Ppruner of the Year Nominee 2005
Posts: 12,303
Received 77 Likes on 44 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose
ZEnglish speaking guy, (Derek?) nice to see Zelensky addressing him in English and by his name too.
Eric.
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-...786eaafc1100f0
Buster Hyman is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 13:44
  #12407 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 7,615
Received 250 Likes on 141 Posts
Originally Posted by Beamr
I see your point but I reckon the situation in eastern Ukraine being a bit hotter today than the situation on the Finnish/Soviet border in 1987. I can't recall any cross border ammunition exchange back then.
yes but Engels is a long way from that border - in the 80's the whole of Russia was at risk - now they clearly think its only the areas close to the Ukraine - WRONG
Asturias56 is online now  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 13:49
  #12408 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: EHEH
Posts: 428
Received 147 Likes on 50 Posts
What puzzles me (but I may have missed it) is any certainty that these attacks originated from Ukraine territory. Perhaps, like a few other recent "bangs" in Russia it was an "inside" job?
FUMR is online now  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 14:27
  #12409 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,709
Received 68 Likes on 37 Posts
Well, we've seen photos of the old Soviet Strizh 75 kg warhead drones that Ukraine have repurposed and used on the airfields (which an astonished Russia has recognized), and we've seen the clever boat drones that they used to disturb the fleet in Sebastopol, so how about a quick one-two combo on VP's bridge project? Perhaps they are waiting for the first fuel train to make a tentative crossing. And perhaps the locomotive/engine drivers should be wearing paraglider packs.

See Beamr #12336
https://t.co/YMKbihDC0V」 / Twitter
jolihokistix is online now  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 14:29
  #12410 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 30,873
Received 1,732 Likes on 746 Posts
Hmmm, but one thing, WTF has it to do with the US what they donate?

NutLoose is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 14:42
  #12411 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: SW England
Age: 72
Posts: 251
Received 77 Likes on 41 Posts
Originally Posted by FUMR
What puzzles me (but I may have missed it) is any certainty that these attacks originated from Ukraine territory. Perhaps, like a few other recent "bangs" in Russia it was an "inside" job?

I share your suspicion that this was either an inside job, perhaps an attack by an anti-Putin faction, or even Ukrainian SF working deep inside Russia. Too much just doesn't add up to convince me 100% that this was a Ukrainian missile attack. Putin also has a great deal to gain, in terms of internal Russian propaganda, by arranging some minor damage deep inside Russia as a way to keep up the pretence that Ukraine and NATO present a real threat on Russian territory.

I'm convinced the fog of war has firmly settled around some of the attacks well within Russian territory.
_Agrajag_ is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 15:05
  #12412 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,644
Received 18 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Hmmm, but one thing, WTF has it to do with the US what they donate?



https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...46080151216129
Any US tech on the Leo 2?
Davef68 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 16:01
  #12413 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Outer ring of HEL
Posts: 1,594
Received 147 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by Davef68
Any US tech on the Leo 2?
in short, yes.
Beamr is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 16:20
  #12414 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 30,873
Received 1,732 Likes on 746 Posts
Lots of variants though, the Spanish ones didn't get sent becuse they needed a lot of work to recommission them, I think they were Leo 2-4's where as they are now up to -7 or 8's?
NutLoose is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 17:07
  #12415 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rhone-Alpes
Posts: 1,052
Received 180 Likes on 93 Posts
Originally Posted by Davef68
Any US tech on the Leo 2?
Unless the US is being two-faced in its latest comments about supply of the Leo to Ukraine, why would that be of any importance ?
Tartiflette Fan is online now  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 17:25
  #12416 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,644
Received 18 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
Unless the US is being two-faced in its latest comments about supply of the Leo to Ukraine, why would that be of any importance ?
To answer Nutloose's comment as to what it has to do with the US. ITAR and all that

Originally Posted by NutLoose
Hmmm, but one thing, WTF has it to do with the US what they donate?



https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...46080151216129
Davef68 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 17:56
  #12417 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 30,873
Received 1,732 Likes on 746 Posts
First one a misfire?

NutLoose is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 18:12
  #12418 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 30,873
Received 1,732 Likes on 746 Posts
A lot of people keep mentioning giving them F16ís, so I thought I would link a Mig 29 Verses F16 combat training comparison

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/f-16...he-first-time/
NutLoose is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 18:29
  #12419 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Outer ring of HEL
Posts: 1,594
Received 147 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by Davef68
Any US tech on the Leo 2?
Originally Posted by Beamr
in short, yes.
I'll correct myself a bit, as the question is more regards the Leo 1 which has been offered by Rheinmetall to Ukraine and of which there are existing stocks for sale waiting with Bundeswehr.

The Leo 1 has more to do with US manufactured parts as it had a Cadillac-Gage stabilization system for the main gun.

The Leo 2 is more or less European build except for eg the Trophy system which is of Israeli origin. But that wouldn't concern the US.

I believe our friends across the pond are saying it's quite ok to deliver the Leo 1's to Ukraine on their behalf.
Beamr is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2022, 18:35
  #12420 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 30,873
Received 1,732 Likes on 746 Posts
Putins wittering on about nukes again but appears to be indicating they would be only used in response to a strike if the subtitles are correct.

​​​​​​​
NutLoose is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.