Is Ukraine about to have a war?
Good point on the costs of GLSDB, hopefully another good battlefield capability. Also good to see the push to develop new capabilities, but remember, you go to war with what you've got - if we don't develop new capabilities all the time, when it happens you're stuck. Most of the major WW2 aircraft, as an example, were substantially designed or at least conceived pre-war, admittedly with some significant evolution.
Sould we, shouldn't we?
Notwithstanding all the arguments for and against above; one thing is clear. If Putin gets away with this, those who are not wading in, will have a much harder time in future and so will we all.
V.V. Putin: 'What part of "RUSSIA WILL NEVER BACK DOWN!" don't you get?'
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Germany has approved the sending of Leopard 1's as well, trouble is the timeline to get those into service, the hull should have a lot of commonality with the Gepards.
Edit: a translation, they appear to be ahead of the curve.
However a translation again
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/inn...raine-103.html
Norway to order more Leopards.
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/no...anzer-101.html
Edit: a translation, they appear to be ahead of the curve.
However a translation again
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/inn...raine-103.html
According to the "Süddeutsche Zeitung", the armaments group Rheinmetall and the Flensburger Fahrzeugbau Gesellschaft (FFG) want to prepare dozens of "Leopard 1" tanks and could supply them to Ukraine for the fight against Russia. According to the report, however, there are still problems in obtaining the required 105-millimeter ammunition. Although Brazil still has large stocks of ammunition due to the delivery of around 250 "Leopard" tanks from Germany, the government of President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva has so far refused to pass it on, as it did with the ammunition for the "Gepard" anti-aircraft tank.
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/no...anzer-101.html
According to Prime Minister Störe, Norway wants to order 54 new "Leopard 2" tanks from the German armaments group Krauss-Maffei Wegmann. In addition, the Scandinavians have an option to buy another 18 tanks. NATO member Norway buys 54 Leopard 2 tanks from Germany.
The Norwegian government has decided to procure the battle tanks from the German armaments company Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Störe announced at the Rena military base around 150 kilometers north of Oslo. There is also an option to purchase 18 more such tanks. First delivery 2026 Störe emphasized the close and good relationship between his country and Germany.
The Federal Republic is playing an increasingly important security policy role in Europe. He informed Chancellor Olaf Scholz about the purchase in the morning, said Störe. It is expected that the first of the new "Leopard" tanks will be delivered in 2026, said Defense Minister Björn Arild Gram. According to government information, the purchase is within a budget set by Parliament of 19.7 billion Norwegian kroner (around 1.8 billion euros).
This framework therefore covers more than the actual purchase of the tanks. The negotiated purchase price was kept secret. A Leopard 1A5 main battle tank. War against Ukraine Berlin wants to release "Leopard 1" delivery The federal government apparently wants to give the green light for further tank deliveries to Ukraine.
Already 36 "Leopards" in stock The Norwegian parliament had approved the procurement of new main battle tanks in 2021. The Scandinavian non-EU country then considered several different tank models. According to Norwegian media reports, the decision ultimately fell between the "Leopard 2A7" and the South Korean Hyundai Rotem "K2 Black Panther". Norway currently has 36 older Type 2A4 "Leopard" tanks. Störe's government has announced that it will deliver some of them to Ukraine - how many is still unclear.
The Norwegian government has decided to procure the battle tanks from the German armaments company Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Störe announced at the Rena military base around 150 kilometers north of Oslo. There is also an option to purchase 18 more such tanks. First delivery 2026 Störe emphasized the close and good relationship between his country and Germany.
The Federal Republic is playing an increasingly important security policy role in Europe. He informed Chancellor Olaf Scholz about the purchase in the morning, said Störe. It is expected that the first of the new "Leopard" tanks will be delivered in 2026, said Defense Minister Björn Arild Gram. According to government information, the purchase is within a budget set by Parliament of 19.7 billion Norwegian kroner (around 1.8 billion euros).
This framework therefore covers more than the actual purchase of the tanks. The negotiated purchase price was kept secret. A Leopard 1A5 main battle tank. War against Ukraine Berlin wants to release "Leopard 1" delivery The federal government apparently wants to give the green light for further tank deliveries to Ukraine.
Already 36 "Leopards" in stock The Norwegian parliament had approved the procurement of new main battle tanks in 2021. The Scandinavian non-EU country then considered several different tank models. According to Norwegian media reports, the decision ultimately fell between the "Leopard 2A7" and the South Korean Hyundai Rotem "K2 Black Panther". Norway currently has 36 older Type 2A4 "Leopard" tanks. Störe's government has announced that it will deliver some of them to Ukraine - how many is still unclear.
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The art of Russian camouflage, green netting on the top of a beige building...
You would not want to be in the surrounding higher buildings if that opens up. 
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Facinating and long film showing Ukrainians recovoering and putting back into service captured Russian vehicles.
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And you just can't keep an old dog down, still running and serving a purpose
https://twitter.com/search?q=ukraine...d_query&f=live
Some of the UK's donations at work.
Sadly lost
https://twitter.com/search?q=ukraine...d_query&f=live
Some of the UK's donations at work.
Sadly lost
88 Leopard 1's from DE within some timeframe, but as news also 15 Gepards in the shopping list. Those would create a good air defence basis for the Leopard brigades.
https://twitter.com/Azovsouth/status/1621467053398921216
https://twitter.com/Azovsouth/status/1621467053398921216
88 Leopard 1's from DE within some timeframe, but as news also 15 Gepards in the shopping list. Those would create a good air defence basis for the Leopard brigades.
https://twitter.com/Azovsouth/status...67053398921216
https://twitter.com/Azovsouth/status...67053398921216
There are a lot of soundings at the moment in relation to Eastern Ukraine and the possibility that Kiev Government will look to conduct a major attack on this area.
In 2014 the people in this area disliked the Maidan Sq protests and did one of the own which was attacked by Kiev. As this area is populated by people with more Ethnic ties to Russia than to Western Ukraine, the people got the support of Russia, overtly and covertly after being attacked by Kiev and probably a bit before as well.
Currently a large area is held by people who wish to have little to do with Kiev and seek a breakaway from it. The war of 2014 /15 was bloody and has left a phoney ceasefire since.
Ukrainian forces have been builing up military equipment over the last number of months, Ukrainian men of conscription age have been barred from leaving the country BUT not unsurprisingly it has had zero impact as Poland / Germany have had influx of people seeing to avoid being conscripted. Poland currently has 3 million people who have left since 2014 based on Polish work permit numbers, nobody knows who are there without permits.
Trump election in 2016 brought any hope that Kiev had of starting a war to an end, the ties with Biden and family are well publicised. The change in January has opened up lots of options.
Russia has responded in last 2 weeks in moving sizeable tranches of equipment into Crimea / along border areas with helicopter units being visible in the breakaway region.
Ukrainian President unpopular at home with a less than 20% approval rating needs something, US pressure is coming to bear as well and unspecified promises, shades of Saddam re Kuwait likely being made.
So questions are
Will the Ukrainian comic President seek to start a war ?
What has he been promised ?
Does he think NATO powers will intervene ?
Is he assumming that Turkish / Israeli drones which worked in Nagorno-Karabak will do the same here ?
Will Russian units in Transniestra / Crimea come under attack ?
Does anybody expect Russia to stand by and watch Svoboda / Other neo Nazi groups be allowed do as they please ?
At the moment I see it as a 50-50 chance of a war, lots of posturing but a real danger that Kiev goes for broke. I see next 4 weeks as being key as if nowt by May 1st then maybe it dies down. But as Duke of York found out you can only march men up the hill so many times.
Ukraine however is bankrupt, it has lost 1/3 of its population since 1998 and the advent of Nordstream 2 will reduce its income even further.
In 2014 the people in this area disliked the Maidan Sq protests and did one of the own which was attacked by Kiev. As this area is populated by people with more Ethnic ties to Russia than to Western Ukraine, the people got the support of Russia, overtly and covertly after being attacked by Kiev and probably a bit before as well.
Currently a large area is held by people who wish to have little to do with Kiev and seek a breakaway from it. The war of 2014 /15 was bloody and has left a phoney ceasefire since.
Ukrainian forces have been builing up military equipment over the last number of months, Ukrainian men of conscription age have been barred from leaving the country BUT not unsurprisingly it has had zero impact as Poland / Germany have had influx of people seeing to avoid being conscripted. Poland currently has 3 million people who have left since 2014 based on Polish work permit numbers, nobody knows who are there without permits.
Trump election in 2016 brought any hope that Kiev had of starting a war to an end, the ties with Biden and family are well publicised. The change in January has opened up lots of options.
Russia has responded in last 2 weeks in moving sizeable tranches of equipment into Crimea / along border areas with helicopter units being visible in the breakaway region.
Ukrainian President unpopular at home with a less than 20% approval rating needs something, US pressure is coming to bear as well and unspecified promises, shades of Saddam re Kuwait likely being made.
So questions are
Will the Ukrainian comic President seek to start a war ?
What has he been promised ?
Does he think NATO powers will intervene ?
Is he assumming that Turkish / Israeli drones which worked in Nagorno-Karabak will do the same here ?
Will Russian units in Transniestra / Crimea come under attack ?
Does anybody expect Russia to stand by and watch Svoboda / Other neo Nazi groups be allowed do as they please ?
At the moment I see it as a 50-50 chance of a war, lots of posturing but a real danger that Kiev goes for broke. I see next 4 weeks as being key as if nowt by May 1st then maybe it dies down. But as Duke of York found out you can only march men up the hill so many times.
Ukraine however is bankrupt, it has lost 1/3 of its population since 1998 and the advent of Nordstream 2 will reduce its income even further.
It's all too easy to accuse those we disagree with as being 'Russian bots', but in racedo's case I genuinely believe he was one.
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https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/...er-ammunition/
Since it is confirmed Ukraine will be getting significant numbers of Leo ones I would consider it likely that in no time there will be a factory pushing out 105mm for Leo 1's.
Funny thing, capitalism.
Since he joined in 2008 and, given the elevated average age of members, isn't it more likely he is deceased ? I don't recall his regular postings being any way untoward, so although his beliefs may have lain that way ( personally no idea ) I think the idea of being a bot/troll from date of joining is extremely unlikely. I am a little puzzled why you suddenly dragged this up.
But to answer your question, the title of the thread suddenly struck me as odd so went back to see how it all began.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Problems with ammo for the Gepard. Both Brazil and Switzerland refusing to deliver, although there may be a small purchase from Qatar - 16 000 rounds. Brazil also not willing to sell 105 mm ammo for Leopard 1
Swiss body proposes removing barriers to re-export arms to Ukraine
A Swiss parliamentary group has proposed to lift a ban on reexporting ammunition from Ukraine from other countries.
With 14 votes in favor and 11 against, the recommendation was passed. It will now require approval by parliament.
"The majority of this commission believes that Switzerland should contribute to European security, which also includes more assistance to Ukraine," a Swiss parliament committee stated in a press release.
Appeals from Germany for Switzerland to allow it to reexport Swiss-made ammunition into Ukraine have been rejected by Switzerland before.
This was because such a move would be against its neutrality. Bern has been under increasing pressure to reconsider its policies, as shown at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
In its statement, the committee stated that their proposals were not in violation of Swiss neutrality rules because the arms would be sent via another country and not directly into a conflict zone.
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https://news.google.com/__i/rss/rd/a...0yNC_SAQA?oc=5
Swiss body proposes removing barriers to re-export arms to Ukraine
A Swiss parliamentary group has proposed to lift a ban on reexporting ammunition from Ukraine from other countries.
With 14 votes in favor and 11 against, the recommendation was passed. It will now require approval by parliament.
"The majority of this commission believes that Switzerland should contribute to European security, which also includes more assistance to Ukraine," a Swiss parliament committee stated in a press release.
Appeals from Germany for Switzerland to allow it to reexport Swiss-made ammunition into Ukraine have been rejected by Switzerland before.
This was because such a move would be against its neutrality. Bern has been under increasing pressure to reconsider its policies, as shown at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
In its statement, the committee stated that their proposals were not in violation of Swiss neutrality rules because the arms would be sent via another country and not directly into a conflict zone.
Swiss body proposes removing barriers to re-export arms to Ukraine
A Swiss parliamentary group has proposed to lift a ban on reexporting ammunition from Ukraine from other countries.
With 14 votes in favor and 11 against, the recommendation was passed. It will now require approval by parliament.
"The majority of this commission believes that Switzerland should contribute to European security, which also includes more assistance to Ukraine," a Swiss parliament committee stated in a press release.
Appeals from Germany for Switzerland to allow it to reexport Swiss-made ammunition into Ukraine have been rejected by Switzerland before.
This was because such a move would be against its neutrality. Bern has been under increasing pressure to reconsider its policies, as shown at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
In its statement, the committee stated that their proposals were not in violation of Swiss neutrality rules because the arms would be sent via another country and not directly into a conflict zone.
Last edited by NutLoose; 3rd Feb 2023 at 20:20.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
then who in their right mind would purchase it from Switzerland..
I would have thought many other suppliers will be producing and providing samples for test to Ukraine, especially from places such as Korea…
One question would be, how great is the continuing/final total of requirements going to be ? I have no in-depth knowledge, but have the impression that the Gepard ( like the HIMARS ) was not a storming success pre-2021. HIMARS has now experienced a rocket-like increase in sales: will Gepard go the same way ?
One question would be, how great is the continuing/final total of requirements going to be ? I have no in-depth knowledge, but have the impression that the Gepard ( like the HIMARS ) was not a storming success pre-2021. HIMARS has now experienced a rocket-like increase in sales: will Gepard go the same way ?
eg Finland placed those on T55 platform and nowadays installed on 2a4 platforms.
Another example: Poles have the PZA Loara which is on twardy platform (in essence further development of T72).
Japanese version is Mitsubishi type 87.
There will be market for the ammunition, and more guns for surplus platforms, if proven efficient.