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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Old 16th Aug 2022, 15:19
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The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill, the problem Putin has, is a lot of those in power supporting him who have had the life the west offers realise in their case, that is true.

The other problem he has is the next generations following on behind never suffered the culture and oppression that was the Soviet Union of old and have grown use to the" luxuries " the west brings to the party, from holidays abroad to simple things like a Big Mac, I Pads or an Ikea chair...

That is all slowly but surely going, something the likes of Putin and his cronies will still be able to access, but things that will become more difficult for the future generations... Putin is history, the youth of today is the future, a future being squandered on the fields of Ukraine.

..
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 15:35
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Reference reports unnamed senior people within the Kremlin want to negotiate a “deal” to end the war - doubtless the source of the suggestions of giving up Ukrainian territory for “peace” - and doubtless removal of sanctions… The united allied position is that the decision is up to Ukraine and they will back their decision 100%. President Zelenskyy has replied… "For us, to live without freedom is not to live. To be dependent is not to be. Therefore, we will not give up until we drive the last occupier out of our home. And we will not stop until we liberate the last meter of Ukrainian land."
As long as his friends in the West supply the means, he'll have the will and the fight will continue.
Originally Posted by FUMR
I read all the academic writings on this forum but I think that the best explanation is quite simple: Get out of the Ukraine completely and never come back. Replace Putin with someone who will bring honour back to the Russian population through cooperation and not confrontation. End of war and resumption of (near) normal life.
When someone in Moscow who has political influence agrees with you, then will come a change. Otherwise, you are preaching to the converted.
Originally Posted by ORAC
Putin isn’t the problem, he’s a symptom. There is indeed great unrest with him in Russia, but even more so with the “elite” he represents and are seen as having been seduced by the West. The article below is, I believe, pretty representative of those below the Kremlin who don’t want a coup, thry want a revolution.
https://wartranslated.com/pro-soviet...or-the-regime/
Pro-Soviet, Russian author Maksim Kalashnikov on why declaring Russia a “terrorist state” is a bad omen for the regime
How soon before Maksim Kalashnikov gets tossed out of a window? The "as in 1915-1916" line is an obvious call for revolt.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 15:45
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https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/08...chinese-robot/


Is this one of the highly sophisticated weapons that Putin was boasting about yesterday ? Better than NLAW and Javelin ?
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 15:49
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The ISW reports elements of the Luhansk People’s Republic militia have refused orders to fight in Donetsk and are complaining about the pace of offensives outside of Luhansk. Morale in RU proxy units is abysmal, and likely to worsen.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ment-august-15
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 16:01
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The Maksim Kalashnikov article referenced above is an interesting one but doesn't say too much that is new.
That a land so huge and rich in natural resources can be managed so incompetently is quite tragic (One wonders if the citizens of Moscow are really looking back on the USSR as the good old times). But in a sense it's not news to find that a land full of riches doesn't need a functional democracy or a civil service uncorrupt or even a military that operates within the terms of international law and doesn't use extreme abuse to maintain the authority of it's middle ranks.

Such niceties are not needed, nations based on fossil and mineral can make a living quite nicely without needing to equitably educate it's workforce, without the need for democratic checks and balances to, eventually, restore order and competence to the running of the nation.

But what the article misses is that Russia does retain a few competences even if these, like it's space launch technology are largely inherited of the Soviet era.

Russia's competence in the area of propaganda and news management remain high. It's been argued that such areas as Climate change denial and the Brexit argument were promoted by such Kremlin funded troll farms. With global warming and a weakened Europe both being positions that Russia welcomes.

So let's not be too cocky, the Kremlin does have the odd good card left. Even if, these days, it's largely used to convince its local population. Yet a far cry from the good old days I think.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 16:14
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Reference reports unnamed senior people within the Kremlin want to negotiate a “deal” to end the war - doubtless the source of the suggestions of giving up Ukrainian territory for “peace”
Indeed it was. I for one would love Russia to be booted out of Ukraine however the realist in me believes this is unlikely to happen anytime soon and, even if it did, it would come at considerable (additional) human and material cost to Ukraine. Would it really be worth it, especially if the considerable prizes of EU and NATO membership could be realised much faster than it will otherwise be? IMO this would far outweigh the economic impact of its loss of territory.

There's been much discussion regarding the allegiances of those people living in the east of the country. Any who are pro-Russian or aren't that bothered can stay put and have a go at living in the newly diminished Russia. Those who'd prefer to remain Ukrainian could be resettled further west.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 16:22
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Originally Posted by Rockie_Rapier
That a land so huge and rich in natural resources can be managed so incompetently is quite tragic (One wonders if the citizens of Moscow are really looking back on the USSR as the good old times.)But in a sense it's not news to find that a land full of riches doesn't need a functional democracy or a civil service uncorrupt or even a military that operates within the terms of international law and doesn't use extreme abuse to maintain the authority of it's middle ranks.

Such niceties are not needed, nations based on fossil and mineral can make a living quite nicely without needing to equitably educate it's workforce, without the need for democratic checks and balances to, eventually, restore order and competence to the running of the nation.
Russia's economy has been compared to those resource-rich nations in Africa. All that easy money tends to go to their heads.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 16:29
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Oops, it appears the rail lines in Russia are suffering due to the heat..

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Old 16th Aug 2022, 16:33
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General elections have a lot to answer for...

From an article in The Times.
Latvia strips Kremlin supporters of residence permits

Latvia’s president has called for Russian nationals who declare support for the Kremlin’s war in Ukraine to be stripped of their residence permits.

The Baltic state, one of Kyiv’s most vociferous supporters, has already stopped issuing tourist visas to Russians. With a general election looming, it is now contemplating whether to go further by deporting any Latvians who obtain Russian passports and revoking the rights of roughly 50,000 Russian citizens to live in the country.

Relative to its size, Latvia has the largest Russian-speaking diaspora in Europe, accounting for just over a third of its 1.9 million people. Many regard Russia favourably, though only 12 per cent say they support President Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

Yet the war has entrenched divisions. Latvia has banned several Russian state broadcasters and ordered the demolition of up to 300 Soviet war memorials. The justice ministry is drawing up a bill that could restrict the use of Russian in workplaces and other public spaces.

Last weekend President Levits, the head of state, echoed a call by Edgars Rinkevics, the foreign minister, for Latvians who take Russian citizenship to be kicked out of the country. It is not permitted to hold Latvian and Russian passports at the same time.




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Old 16th Aug 2022, 16:36
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An example how the sanctions affect Russias military sales. Although one factor probably is that the Russians may have warned of the disminished ability to provide them at all, neverminding whether due to sanctions restricing component availability or RF needing those themselves in Ukraine. Nevertheless, good news.

Philippine officials are considering a U.S. offer to provide heavy-lift helicopters like its widely used Chinooks after Manila scrapped a deal to buy military choppers from Russia due to fears of Western sanctions, the Philippine ambassador to Washington said Monday.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/a...-russian-deal/
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 16:45
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Shells lying in the road 5k from the ammo dump blast.

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Old 16th Aug 2022, 17:18
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You are going to love this, well done Ukraine and thank you for the thoughts.

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Old 16th Aug 2022, 17:53
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
You are going to love this, well done Ukraine and thank you for the thoughts.
Nice use of the Clash and their version of that song.
Not sure how they'd get some aviation themes with Rock the Casbah, but I am sure they could figure it out.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 18:00
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Originally Posted by Beamr
An example how the sanctions affect Russias military sales. Although one factor probably is that the Russians may have warned of the disminished ability to provide them at all, neverminding whether due to sanctions restricing component availability or RF needing those themselves in Ukraine. Nevertheless, good news.



https://www.defensenews.com/global/a...-russian-deal/
Isn't there also an issue that Russia relied upon various industries in Ukraine for components too, especially with regards to aviation components?
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 18:14
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Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker
Isn't there also an issue that Russia relied upon various industries in Ukraine for components too, especially with regards to aviation components?
Hmm you might have a point there...

Speaking of Chinooks nice to see the Odihams finest at work in the region

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles...ward-presence/

and with our soon to be new NATO members in Santas grotto

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles...ox-in-finland/


With the recent Russian losses, and the increased shelling around the nuclear plant i wonder how things will pan out around xmas time?

cheers

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Old 16th Aug 2022, 21:05
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Originally Posted by WB627
IIRC that was pretty much the half we didn't have at the start and why we entered the war. At the end* all we had achieved was swopping one murderous dictator for another. We utterly betrayed those in Europe that we had sought to free in the first place.

At the end * of the war, the west did have nukes, but the Americans did not want to threaten our former ally with them, to free Eastern Europe and the Baltic states, as we should have done.

end * You cant have an end to something that isn't finished yet.
I hope I’m not the only one who believes it would have been a bad idea to threaten the use of nuclear weapons after the end of WW2. I accept their potential use in retaliation of aggression against the US and its in accordance with signed treaties, for intended purpose of deterrence.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 21:24
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Originally Posted by Rockie_Rapier
It's been argued that such areas as Climate change denial and the Brexit argument were promoted by such Kremlin funded troll farms. With global warming and a weakened Europe both being positions that Russia welcomes.
Yeah, it's very unfortunate that the Russian propaganda has been allowed to have so much influence globally. And I doubt it's in Russia's interest to have more global warming, seeing how many wildfires they had this year. But, since one way of fighting global warming is to reduce the dependency on fossil fuels, which would mean less money for Russia, they have an indirect motivation to support the positions of climate change deniers.

In fact, when it's in its interest, Russia can be against fossil fuels. When those fossil fuels are not extracted in Russia, that is. For example, in 2013 Chevron came to Romania to drill some exploratory wells for shale gas extraction, through hydraulic fracking. Needless to say, Russia didn't like that at all. So, through various channels, they pumped disinformation about the risks of hydraulic fracking. After some large protests at the site where the first wells would have been drilled, which descended into violence, Chevron abandoned the project.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 21:25
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Originally Posted by GlobalNav
I hope I’m not the only one who believes it would have been a bad idea to threaten the use of nuclear weapons after the end of WW2. I accept their potential use in retaliation of aggression against the US and its in accordance with signed treaties, for intended purpose of deterrence.
The Russians/Soviets were offered participation in the Marshall Plan, and they turned it down. As it turns out, the Molotov Plan didn't work out quite as well. Comecon was so successful that ... wait, no it wasn't.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 21:39
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Originally Posted by GlobalNav
I hope I’m not the only one who believes it would have been a bad idea to threaten the use of nuclear weapons after the end of WW2. I accept their potential use in retaliation of aggression against the US and its in accordance with signed treaties, for intended purpose of deterrence.
Was it not Patton that recognised the threat and said keep on going after Germany was defeated.
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Old 16th Aug 2022, 21:43
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Originally Posted by GlobalNav
I hope I’m not the only one who believes it would have been a bad idea to threaten the use of nuclear weapons after the end of WW2. I accept their potential use in retaliation of aggression against the US and its in accordance with signed treaties, for intended purpose of deterrence.

I hope I am not the only one that is unhappy that we swapped Hitler for Stalin in Eastern Europe and the Baltic, when the West had it in it's power to do something about it. I think dealing with an angry Russia confined to its pre 1939 borders would have bee a much better prospect, than the whole cold war thing we got with the Warsaw Pact.

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