Atlas STN
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Gee, I must have struck a nerve.
JohnGalt,
For not being a Polaroid or Atlas guy as you advertise, your only two posts have only been on this feud. I seriously doubt your neutrality here. Especially with the depth of your knowledge of what you think is going on with your first post Click Here.
If you seriously don't understand the Atlas memberships dislike of their treatment by the Polar MEC's multiple actions over and over again, then you are only listening to what sounds good versus what is the truth. Or your being disingenuous. Most likely you are just a Polar guy pretending not to be here. Probably prompted by a few focused on here.
I've said it before. Most at Atlas would have been completely happy never acquiring Polar when they were going belly up. We would have not lost as many jobs, A/C, and upgrades to Polar when Atlas management decided to tweak us during our first T/A contract rejection as punishment and moved A/C and contracts over to Polar to make a point. Why listen to me. Click on flash slide show CLICK HERE and click on each image to go to the next one. It gives a more precise history of events that is also backed up with my previously posted transcripts of the seniority arbitration.
I have not hidden my dislikes, but at least I put up facts that are backed up. Putting up the facts is also what I'm trying to accomplish. Not controlling a union membership by keeping them in the dark and using another council as the excuse for all their problems as the Polar MEC has been doing.
cptvac,
I see that you still will not answer my question. Pretty much says it all in character and act.
It appears that I stand corrected, if we are to believe you. Please go on. It would not be the first time I've been misinformed. Is there anything that you can show us to back this up? I mean beside what Robin tells you. I only have a phone call I didn't tape so far.
JohnGalt,
For not being a Polaroid or Atlas guy as you advertise, your only two posts have only been on this feud. I seriously doubt your neutrality here. Especially with the depth of your knowledge of what you think is going on with your first post Click Here.
If you seriously don't understand the Atlas memberships dislike of their treatment by the Polar MEC's multiple actions over and over again, then you are only listening to what sounds good versus what is the truth. Or your being disingenuous. Most likely you are just a Polar guy pretending not to be here. Probably prompted by a few focused on here.
I've said it before. Most at Atlas would have been completely happy never acquiring Polar when they were going belly up. We would have not lost as many jobs, A/C, and upgrades to Polar when Atlas management decided to tweak us during our first T/A contract rejection as punishment and moved A/C and contracts over to Polar to make a point. Why listen to me. Click on flash slide show CLICK HERE and click on each image to go to the next one. It gives a more precise history of events that is also backed up with my previously posted transcripts of the seniority arbitration.
I have not hidden my dislikes, but at least I put up facts that are backed up. Putting up the facts is also what I'm trying to accomplish. Not controlling a union membership by keeping them in the dark and using another council as the excuse for all their problems as the Polar MEC has been doing.
cptvac,
I see that you still will not answer my question. Pretty much says it all in character and act.
Originally Posted by cptvac
Turns out neither resolution was adopted...how and when they were presented is fascinating though...best that comes from your "fact-checkers" directly.
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Enough Already
Merc9 and those who respond to his half truths and misinformation, ENOUGH already.
Merc9, what you have been doing is directly contributing to managements efforts to keep these two pilot groups at each others throats. If I knew your name I would not hesitate to file a complaint with ALPA and request an Article VIII investigation into your activities. I suspect you may even be a member of AAWH managments team. AAWH management has no intent to merge these two pilot groups. Its intent is to keep both groups tied up and out of negotiations for new contracts. This merger is nothing more than a ruse. Put simply, how can AAWH say it is merging two ailines, but will maintain both airlines operating certificates, operate both airlines separately, manage both airlines separately, and claim it is a complete operational merger, which requires the pilot groups to merge???Think of the precedent this would set industry wide if this were allowed to go forth without challenge.
The Polar MEC has worked tirelessly to protect the rights of the Polar pilot group, period. The Atlas MEC should try to do the same thing instead of sucking up to AAWH management and undermining the Polar MEC. The Atlas pilot group deserves the same staunch representation provided by Captain Henderson and Captain Hair. Who knows, maybe if the company gets serious about a merger, the result could be one company, one pilot group and one MEC. If so, from what I have heard on the line from both pilot groups, it won't be the likes of the current Atlas MEC.
Ok, ENOUGH already!!!!!!!!
Merc9, what you have been doing is directly contributing to managements efforts to keep these two pilot groups at each others throats. If I knew your name I would not hesitate to file a complaint with ALPA and request an Article VIII investigation into your activities. I suspect you may even be a member of AAWH managments team. AAWH management has no intent to merge these two pilot groups. Its intent is to keep both groups tied up and out of negotiations for new contracts. This merger is nothing more than a ruse. Put simply, how can AAWH say it is merging two ailines, but will maintain both airlines operating certificates, operate both airlines separately, manage both airlines separately, and claim it is a complete operational merger, which requires the pilot groups to merge???Think of the precedent this would set industry wide if this were allowed to go forth without challenge.
The Polar MEC has worked tirelessly to protect the rights of the Polar pilot group, period. The Atlas MEC should try to do the same thing instead of sucking up to AAWH management and undermining the Polar MEC. The Atlas pilot group deserves the same staunch representation provided by Captain Henderson and Captain Hair. Who knows, maybe if the company gets serious about a merger, the result could be one company, one pilot group and one MEC. If so, from what I have heard on the line from both pilot groups, it won't be the likes of the current Atlas MEC.
Ok, ENOUGH already!!!!!!!!
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Good to see that some are coming out of the mushroom shed and into the light. Deprogramming hopefully will ensue.
The how of merging - has been covered a few pages back with two certificates remaining intact. Currently exampled by Air Micronesia and Continental. ALPA President Prater even told Bobb Henderson that. So not to repeat it again, go back and read some of the thread. Not just the last page.
I see you posted from Seoul. I won't be through there during your layover to explain and provide evidence further. Maybe we will bump into each other down the road.
I find it odd that Bobb and Robin have not tried initiating an Article VIII. Especially since they know who I am. Maybe they don't want any of my unpublished evidence of their actions brought forth in my defense or maybe they just don't want to throw stones in a glass house? Maybe, they just don't have any basis to file an article VIII against me.
I agree. They have.
Predominately at the expense of the Atlas membership which has been covered on many threads here on Pprune in the past. The merger stalling is just the most recent. I have said it before. Separate section 6 negotiations will just repeat the bad past history of us being used against each other (i.e. shifting of A/C, contracts and furloughs back and forth). Merging will take that particular attack against us out of managements grasp and better merged contract.
The how of merging - has been covered a few pages back with two certificates remaining intact. Currently exampled by Air Micronesia and Continental. ALPA President Prater even told Bobb Henderson that. So not to repeat it again, go back and read some of the thread. Not just the last page.
I see you posted from Seoul. I won't be through there during your layover to explain and provide evidence further. Maybe we will bump into each other down the road.
I find it odd that Bobb and Robin have not tried initiating an Article VIII. Especially since they know who I am. Maybe they don't want any of my unpublished evidence of their actions brought forth in my defense or maybe they just don't want to throw stones in a glass house? Maybe, they just don't have any basis to file an article VIII against me.
Originally Posted by LANCERDVR
The Polar MEC has worked tirelessly to protect the rights of the Polar pilot group, period.
Predominately at the expense of the Atlas membership which has been covered on many threads here on Pprune in the past. The merger stalling is just the most recent. I have said it before. Separate section 6 negotiations will just repeat the bad past history of us being used against each other (i.e. shifting of A/C, contracts and furloughs back and forth). Merging will take that particular attack against us out of managements grasp and better merged contract.
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Merc9 or is it MercVIII
Well that's good to know. I will be speaking with Captain Henderson to ask your name. I will take the time to put the case together and file Article VIII charges against you myself. Having been a 3 term MEC Chairman with another ALPA carrier, and having spent 3 terms fighting the likes of Larey Risley and Johnathon Ornstein, I think I am qualified to say that the Polar MEC, led by Captain Henderson, and the Polar Negotiating Com., led by Captain Haire, symbolize what we all envision as fine representatives of our proud profession.
As for your ludicrous postings, if the Atlas MEC would remove themselves from AAWH management pouch (including you Merc9) and lead its pilot group from labors position, we could all have industry leading contracts in short order.
You state that merging removes managements ability to play one off the other. What's to stop mgmt from aquiring another airline once the merger is complete? Then what, another 5 years without a contract? Back to square one!
What we need is for the Atlas MEC to stand up and fight management and stop undermining the Polar MECs ability to do the same. What needs to be done is for the Atlas MEC to be purged and a new MEC willing to stand up to Mgmt be installed. The many Atlas pilots I have had the pleasure to meet and speak with all agree, would someone please put these two mgmt suck-ups out to pasture!!! Everyday that goes by is another day without a new contract for either pilot group.
As for your ludicrous postings, if the Atlas MEC would remove themselves from AAWH management pouch (including you Merc9) and lead its pilot group from labors position, we could all have industry leading contracts in short order.
You state that merging removes managements ability to play one off the other. What's to stop mgmt from aquiring another airline once the merger is complete? Then what, another 5 years without a contract? Back to square one!
What we need is for the Atlas MEC to stand up and fight management and stop undermining the Polar MECs ability to do the same. What needs to be done is for the Atlas MEC to be purged and a new MEC willing to stand up to Mgmt be installed. The many Atlas pilots I have had the pleasure to meet and speak with all agree, would someone please put these two mgmt suck-ups out to pasture!!! Everyday that goes by is another day without a new contract for either pilot group.
Last edited by LANCERDVR; 30th Oct 2007 at 22:50.
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I won't comment on your qualifications or your proficiency. The content of your posts foreshadows both. As for your threatened article VIII, I will be awaiting it.
The "in managements pocket" Polar MEC chant is really old and untrue. I don't know of any MEC's in "managements pockets" that take their (Atlas) membership out on a sympathy strike for another council's (Polar) when they didn't have to. The Polar MEC has done just about everything they could to gain at the expense of the Atlas council. Which applies today. Even cptvac can't come up with a time or place that your council has reciprocated any support for the Atlas membership.
I guess you have a short memory of just how individual negotiations went last time. Now that you are down to about 7 A/C, you would think a review of history would help. You are right about them buying another airline as history proved out. They bought another airline (Polar) when the Atlas membership started negotiating our initial contract, created another airline called GSS and a crew leasing company called AACS. Merging would help get rid of the Polar/AACS and everyone gets to keep their jobs with a new combined merged contract.
Lets merge, get a new combined contract, and you can run for the finalized MEC. Lets see how that turns out.
The "in managements pocket" Polar MEC chant is really old and untrue. I don't know of any MEC's in "managements pockets" that take their (Atlas) membership out on a sympathy strike for another council's (Polar) when they didn't have to. The Polar MEC has done just about everything they could to gain at the expense of the Atlas council. Which applies today. Even cptvac can't come up with a time or place that your council has reciprocated any support for the Atlas membership.
I guess you have a short memory of just how individual negotiations went last time. Now that you are down to about 7 A/C, you would think a review of history would help. You are right about them buying another airline as history proved out. They bought another airline (Polar) when the Atlas membership started negotiating our initial contract, created another airline called GSS and a crew leasing company called AACS. Merging would help get rid of the Polar/AACS and everyone gets to keep their jobs with a new combined merged contract.
Lets merge, get a new combined contract, and you can run for the finalized MEC. Lets see how that turns out.
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No short memory
Hey Merc, I have no problem with you having a different opinion than my own. I do have a problem with you constantly telling half the story, half truths, and complete lies. So lets clear up one of your blatant lies.
As the Atlas strike countdown was in progress, Polar MEC chairman Fell spoke with Captain Bourne, he stated that Polar pilots were obligated to fly Atlas owned aircraft on dry lease to Polar from prior to the start of the Atlas cooling off period. He stated that no Polar pilot would fly in violation of the Atlas struck work rules, which stated "no Polar pilot would fly any Atlas aircraft transferred to the Polar certificate post start of the cooling off period". Polar could not staff its own aircraft at the time more or less and influx of Atlas aircraft. I have never known a more staunch group of unionized pilots. In fact, the Atlas MEC buckled in the final moments, and in order to save face blamed and twisted the words of the Polar MEC chairman to shift blame. Think about it, it was in the Polar groups best interests for the Atlas pilots to get an industry leading contract. Polar pilots had already demonstrated its own solidarity and staunch union position by calling its own strike in 1999.
As for your sympathy strike, how long did it actually last, I beleive we were on strike for about 3 weeks, the sympathy strike lasted how many minutes? The Atlas MEC was under a huge amount of pressure to support Polar from ALPA national. The sympathy strike was merely the MEC throwing a bone to a group of hungry dogs. It was interesting how Captain Bourne would record a supportive message on the Atlas VARS and within a few hours FO Cappoto would record a deragatory message undermining the strike. I remember having many fellow ALPA airline members walking the line alongside Polar pilots, I don't recall one Atlas pilot. Merc, I will be scouring your previous posts for some time, you have over 200, guess you have a lot of time on your hands. Your slide show is quite impressive fiction, looks like something Mr. Cato prepared himself. What I find will determine if I go forward with your Article VIII.
If you have any say (and I suspect you do) I would highly recommend you proceed with your own negotiations. The Polar pilot group will stand by you in complete solidarity, just as we would have back in 01.
As the Atlas strike countdown was in progress, Polar MEC chairman Fell spoke with Captain Bourne, he stated that Polar pilots were obligated to fly Atlas owned aircraft on dry lease to Polar from prior to the start of the Atlas cooling off period. He stated that no Polar pilot would fly in violation of the Atlas struck work rules, which stated "no Polar pilot would fly any Atlas aircraft transferred to the Polar certificate post start of the cooling off period". Polar could not staff its own aircraft at the time more or less and influx of Atlas aircraft. I have never known a more staunch group of unionized pilots. In fact, the Atlas MEC buckled in the final moments, and in order to save face blamed and twisted the words of the Polar MEC chairman to shift blame. Think about it, it was in the Polar groups best interests for the Atlas pilots to get an industry leading contract. Polar pilots had already demonstrated its own solidarity and staunch union position by calling its own strike in 1999.
As for your sympathy strike, how long did it actually last, I beleive we were on strike for about 3 weeks, the sympathy strike lasted how many minutes? The Atlas MEC was under a huge amount of pressure to support Polar from ALPA national. The sympathy strike was merely the MEC throwing a bone to a group of hungry dogs. It was interesting how Captain Bourne would record a supportive message on the Atlas VARS and within a few hours FO Cappoto would record a deragatory message undermining the strike. I remember having many fellow ALPA airline members walking the line alongside Polar pilots, I don't recall one Atlas pilot. Merc, I will be scouring your previous posts for some time, you have over 200, guess you have a lot of time on your hands. Your slide show is quite impressive fiction, looks like something Mr. Cato prepared himself. What I find will determine if I go forward with your Article VIII.
If you have any say (and I suspect you do) I would highly recommend you proceed with your own negotiations. The Polar pilot group will stand by you in complete solidarity, just as we would have back in 01.
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Half Truths
I do have a problem with you constantly telling half the story, half truths, and complete lies.
As the Atlas strike countdown was in progress, Polar MEC chairman Fell spoke with Captain Bourne, he stated that Polar pilots were obligated to fly Atlas owned aircraft on dry lease to Polar from prior to the start of the Atlas cooling off period. He stated that no Polar pilot would fly in violation of the Atlas struck work rules, which stated "no Polar pilot would fly any Atlas aircraft transferred to the Polar certificate post start of the cooling off period".
Polar could not staff its own aircraft at the time more or less and influx of Atlas aircraft.
In fact, the Atlas MEC buckled in the final moments, and in order to save face blamed and twisted the words of the Polar MEC chairman to shift blame.
As for your sympathy strike, how long did it actually last, I beleive we were on strike for about 3 weeks, the sympathy strike lasted how many minutes?
The Atlas MEC was under a huge amount of pressure to support Polar from ALPA national.
The sympathy strike was merely the MEC throwing a bone to a group of hungry dogs.
I remember having many fellow ALPA airline members walking the line alongside Polar pilots, I don't recall one Atlas pilot.
Merc, I will be scouring your previous posts for some time, you have over 200, guess you have a lot of time on your hands. Your slide show is quite impressive fiction, looks like something Mr. Cato prepared himself. What I find will determine if I go forward with your Article VIII.
You all just don't get it do you? As a pilot group - no matter how solid or staunch you are - you cannot dictate how a company does business. The company has said they are going to merge the seniority list. Your contract scope clause and merger and acquisition sections has some serious stipulations that the company must follow. It is, in fact, a very good scope clause. HOWEVER, Bobbb signed it all away when he signed the back to work agreement after your failed strike. The Atlas MEC whom YOU publicly accused of colluding with the company (perhaps a section VIII is in order for you??) realized long ago that the company meant what it said. They also realized that in the Atlas pilots first contract the scope clause is not really strong enough to allow them to do anything about it. So they decided to believe the company and in good faith entered into merger talks with the Polaroids (who at the time were virtually clamoring for a merged list and merger talks).
Every Atlas pilot respects the Polaroids right to file a grievance over this. What they don't respect is the incessant delays. If you all think your case is so strong then why put it off. Put the thing at the top of the list and get it done. Personally I don't know of one single Atlas pilot that wants to merge with you - period. What they do want is to get this millstone off their necks one way or another and get to a new contract.
If you actually were a "three term MEC chairman at another ALPA carrier," you would understand this, and you would know exactly what Bobb is doing - and why. Just as everyone outside of Polar does. IF you do have any contacts left at ALPA then I suggest you call them and find out the straight scoop on the antics of the Polar MEC.
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Spent too much time writing and Whale beat me to the submit button
We at Atlas had no problem with the aircraft and contracts that were transfered to Polar prior to the strike being flown and understood the legal reasons why - though ticked off somewhat by it after receiving furloughs. It would have been wrong and illegal of us to ask Polar not to fly those. The true purpose of the transfer was to slap the Atlas membership down after rejecting the first TA salaried contract and not an economic one as stated by management.
This cannot be said of the Polar Chairman when it was his turn. He was calling the Atlas membership scabs when those same (originally Atlas) A/C and Contracts were transfered back to Atlas a few months before your strike count down even started. He also requested that we don't fly those trips and A/C long before the start of your strike countdown. So It's OK when Polar does it and not when it's done by Atlas? Legally, we couldn't refuse doing it just like Polar couldn't for those prior to the respective strike countdowns. I guess I will be compelled to provide that evidence during my Article VIII you plan on filing on me in my defense. Maybe we should bring in the FBI also. Doesn't that fall under Racketeering? Maybe you should call Bobb H. on that.
What happened at the "eleventh hour" (really @ twenty minutes prior to the Atlas strike release) was Chairman Fell requesting relief from the struck work agreement to fly more Atlas A/C and Contracts after strike initiation. Which was at that time 6 more A/C and the 6 China Airlines contracts we were actively flying. Bob Fell called them new contracts. Proved out during the Henderson "Get All the Liars" in one spot meeting mediated by the retired AFL-CIO Sect Treasurer. I believe it was Fell that left the meeting when the meeting turned to that and our third party witness to the act entered the room.
The sympathy strike initially lasted about three days (it was a weekend) before they got a Federal court order making us go back to work. Bobb H ended up lying about that also. Ended up getting one of his VARS pulled by National when they got a hold of its contents. The temporary restraining orders are located AT THIS SITE under TRO1 and 2.
Funny, I can remember three or four Atlas guys off the top of my head that picketed up in ANC with the Polar guys. Their reward was their name being put in for an Article VIII charge and a pprune post listing them as scabs.
Could you please go back and read this and the other threads on this issue. We are going in circles as in previous posts on this. I can back my stuff up, but I can't say the same of you.
This cannot be said of the Polar Chairman when it was his turn. He was calling the Atlas membership scabs when those same (originally Atlas) A/C and Contracts were transfered back to Atlas a few months before your strike count down even started. He also requested that we don't fly those trips and A/C long before the start of your strike countdown. So It's OK when Polar does it and not when it's done by Atlas? Legally, we couldn't refuse doing it just like Polar couldn't for those prior to the respective strike countdowns. I guess I will be compelled to provide that evidence during my Article VIII you plan on filing on me in my defense. Maybe we should bring in the FBI also. Doesn't that fall under Racketeering? Maybe you should call Bobb H. on that.
What happened at the "eleventh hour" (really @ twenty minutes prior to the Atlas strike release) was Chairman Fell requesting relief from the struck work agreement to fly more Atlas A/C and Contracts after strike initiation. Which was at that time 6 more A/C and the 6 China Airlines contracts we were actively flying. Bob Fell called them new contracts. Proved out during the Henderson "Get All the Liars" in one spot meeting mediated by the retired AFL-CIO Sect Treasurer. I believe it was Fell that left the meeting when the meeting turned to that and our third party witness to the act entered the room.
The sympathy strike initially lasted about three days (it was a weekend) before they got a Federal court order making us go back to work. Bobb H ended up lying about that also. Ended up getting one of his VARS pulled by National when they got a hold of its contents. The temporary restraining orders are located AT THIS SITE under TRO1 and 2.
Funny, I can remember three or four Atlas guys off the top of my head that picketed up in ANC with the Polar guys. Their reward was their name being put in for an Article VIII charge and a pprune post listing them as scabs.
Could you please go back and read this and the other threads on this issue. We are going in circles as in previous posts on this. I can back my stuff up, but I can't say the same of you.
Last edited by mercpc9; 31st Oct 2007 at 07:12. Reason: Spent too much time writing and Whale beat me to the submit button
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Having said most points in my previous post, here is a power point presentation better suited that was given to the ALPA Executive Council on it in the specific time line of events. Not sure if you were just looking at the Atkins evidence in the seniority arbitration flash power point.
Click Here for Flash Power Point. Click on each image to continue to next.
Apologies to the rest for getting him up to speed with the rest of us.
Click Here for Flash Power Point. Click on each image to continue to next.
Apologies to the rest for getting him up to speed with the rest of us.
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Whale
Are you seriously stating for the record that Polar was overstaffed to the extent that it could operate six aircraft (from Atlas) "the next day"?
Merc
Again...Dr. Campbells' "Polar" presentation trumped Atkins "Atlas" presentation. Only Atkins returned to admit his...um..."errors". To a large degree, this is why the Polar side prevailed--an inconvenient truth. However, can't blame you for using the presentation at any opportunity...very expensive if ineffective.
Are you seriously stating for the record that Polar was overstaffed to the extent that it could operate six aircraft (from Atlas) "the next day"?
Merc
Again...Dr. Campbells' "Polar" presentation trumped Atkins "Atlas" presentation. Only Atkins returned to admit his...um..."errors". To a large degree, this is why the Polar side prevailed--an inconvenient truth. However, can't blame you for using the presentation at any opportunity...very expensive if ineffective.
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Of course you were overstaffed. An example is your idea of staffing during the merger talks. You stated that you had 30 aircraft when you came to the mix. Your MEC claimed this to inflate the number of crewmembers on your list even though they KNEW it was not true. Thus they attempted to dilute the mixture in the merged list. Did you think the Atlas pilots were not aware of this? It was yet another falsehood as many of the aircraft you all claimed were yours were not even flying. We all know that GE used Polaris Leasing (the Embryonic Polar Air Cargo) as a place to store parked lease returns from many carriers such as Tigers. Many of the aircraft you claimed you were operating were in storage or parked. You essentially brought 5 airplanes to the merger mix - which equals 123 pilots, yet still you have 170 on your roster now and claimed that many more were tied to the "business" you brought to the merger mix. So tell us what all these extra people that were there for the "business" were going to fly - Atlas aircraft of course.
It is a fact that you had well over 300 people just before the Atlas cooling off period - but did not have near the aircraft to support those crewmembers - oh I forgot they were there for the "business". In any case, you were certainly staffed sufficient to support an additional six aircraft the next day. If you had paid attention during the merger discussions you would have seen the excel timeline presentation that compared aircraft to crewmembers. The Polar staffing was plenty to absorb those aircraft. Hiding behind this half truth, however, is typical of you.
What planet were you on when you claim Campbell's research trumped Akins? His testimony was not worth the very few hours it took to accomplish. In any case arbitrator Harris pretty much totally discounted all economic testimony from both sides so your assertion that you somehow won that particular facet of the battle is an outright falsehood. I find it kind of funny that you had to hire Campbell at the last minute due to the fact that your initial "expert" was so poorly prepared and uneducated. He initially had no idea that Atlas had Scheduled Service route authority to many different countries. Too many years of drinkin beer at Auburn I guess.
And if the Polar side "prevailed" as you say, then what is your problem? You prevailed - then you should move forward with the merger.
I am curious why you cannot or will not answer Merc's question.
Ruger - well don't read it then. The response to the continued half truths, outright lies, and disingenuous dissembling by the Polar leadership has always remained the same. It is the same because it is the truth. No matter which way Bobb directs his minions to attack the truth - we continue to present it for those who care.
It is a fact that you had well over 300 people just before the Atlas cooling off period - but did not have near the aircraft to support those crewmembers - oh I forgot they were there for the "business". In any case, you were certainly staffed sufficient to support an additional six aircraft the next day. If you had paid attention during the merger discussions you would have seen the excel timeline presentation that compared aircraft to crewmembers. The Polar staffing was plenty to absorb those aircraft. Hiding behind this half truth, however, is typical of you.
What planet were you on when you claim Campbell's research trumped Akins? His testimony was not worth the very few hours it took to accomplish. In any case arbitrator Harris pretty much totally discounted all economic testimony from both sides so your assertion that you somehow won that particular facet of the battle is an outright falsehood. I find it kind of funny that you had to hire Campbell at the last minute due to the fact that your initial "expert" was so poorly prepared and uneducated. He initially had no idea that Atlas had Scheduled Service route authority to many different countries. Too many years of drinkin beer at Auburn I guess.
And if the Polar side "prevailed" as you say, then what is your problem? You prevailed - then you should move forward with the merger.
I am curious why you cannot or will not answer Merc's question.
Ruger - well don't read it then. The response to the continued half truths, outright lies, and disingenuous dissembling by the Polar leadership has always remained the same. It is the same because it is the truth. No matter which way Bobb directs his minions to attack the truth - we continue to present it for those who care.
Last edited by WhaleFR8; 2nd Nov 2007 at 02:46.
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I think this is a repeat.
Anyway, T.H, K.M, and all those who ply the midnight skies, it is holiday time and let's hope everyone has a good one. The industry has been on its butt way too long.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Anyway, T.H, K.M, and all those who ply the midnight skies, it is holiday time and let's hope everyone has a good one. The industry has been on its butt way too long.
Happy Thanksgiving.
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Thanks Dr. T. (W.T.) for the holiday salutations. From all of us that ply the midnight sky.
cptvac,
Since you will not answer my previous questions about solidarity and such while I have happily answered yours and everyone else's, why should I reciprocate.
.......hhmmm
The standard "what have you done for me today" stuff from the Polar leadership side???
Sorry Dude, that doesn't work for my brotherhood or me.
Side note. There have really been a number of new posters that seem to share the same IP address. I don't want to be judgmental, but if your sleeping with a Polar guy and want to share his views, knock yourself out sharing that same computer. If your not and just trying to look like multiple persons, quit using multiple logins from one IP address expressing Polar views as multiple persons when your not.
cptvac,
Since you will not answer my previous questions about solidarity and such while I have happily answered yours and everyone else's, why should I reciprocate.
.......hhmmm
The standard "what have you done for me today" stuff from the Polar leadership side???
Sorry Dude, that doesn't work for my brotherhood or me.
Side note. There have really been a number of new posters that seem to share the same IP address. I don't want to be judgmental, but if your sleeping with a Polar guy and want to share his views, knock yourself out sharing that same computer. If your not and just trying to look like multiple persons, quit using multiple logins from one IP address expressing Polar views as multiple persons when your not.
Last edited by mercpc9; 2nd Nov 2007 at 22:00.
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Who is ruger ? You must be Whaleger ! It just gets old seeing the same old stuff you took the time to put together for this Forum only. You need another hobby. Why don't you put the Atkins response on here too for all to see ? Kev, you need to calm down, you get too stressed.
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Whale
Under your staffing scenario, Polar had a 25-30% surplus of crewmembers in some sort of standby mode? Ummmm...NO.
"Prevailed" is a relative term...there is more to the merger issue than the Seniority Integration (in which Polar indeed prevailed judging by the Atlas whining on this very forum). Because there is more, there is no merger.
Merc
I can safely say there is no brotherhood here. Speaking for myself, I have done nothing for you or in your name and do not intend to. If, however, you ever find yourself in the unfortunate circumstance of being on strike--I will never--not one time--cross your picket line, fly your freight, or wish evil upon you. Not because I would be doing you a favor, but because it is wrong. Clear?
Under your staffing scenario, Polar had a 25-30% surplus of crewmembers in some sort of standby mode? Ummmm...NO.
"Prevailed" is a relative term...there is more to the merger issue than the Seniority Integration (in which Polar indeed prevailed judging by the Atlas whining on this very forum). Because there is more, there is no merger.
Merc
I can safely say there is no brotherhood here. Speaking for myself, I have done nothing for you or in your name and do not intend to. If, however, you ever find yourself in the unfortunate circumstance of being on strike--I will never--not one time--cross your picket line, fly your freight, or wish evil upon you. Not because I would be doing you a favor, but because it is wrong. Clear?
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Originally Posted by cptvac
Merc
I can safely say there is no brotherhood here. Speaking for myself, I have done nothing for you or in your name and do not intend to.
If, however, you ever find yourself in the unfortunate circumstance of being on strike--I will never--not one time--cross your picket line, fly your freight, or wish evil upon you. Not because I would be doing you a favor, but because it is wrong. Clear?
I can safely say there is no brotherhood here. Speaking for myself, I have done nothing for you or in your name and do not intend to.
If, however, you ever find yourself in the unfortunate circumstance of being on strike--I will never--not one time--cross your picket line, fly your freight, or wish evil upon you. Not because I would be doing you a favor, but because it is wrong. Clear?
As to the second part. I don't want to test that again or have your MEC Chairman volunteer you to do so -- as in the past, putting you in a position to make that call on your own unsupported. Exampled by the Fell Chairmanship.
Judging from the testimony at the ALPA hearing on the "SCAB" issue this week from one of your own (polar) running the strike on your side -- The Atlas pilots did not scab. Of course, he said that before to the ALPA Executive Council. Unfortunately, that collided with what MEC Chairman Bobb H. wanted spread. Considering Bobb H. was calling us scabs long before your strike, I'm not surprised that your membership gladly followed along with it. Life is easier when you can blame someone else for your problems.
Last edited by mercpc9; 2nd Nov 2007 at 23:03.