BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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apologies for thread drift !!
Dunno about Virgin pilots, but the cabin crew got pretty short shrift from the cuddly Mr B when they last threatened strike action. He stated '"For some of you, more pay than Virgin Atlantic can afford may be critical to your lifestyle and if that is the case you should consider working elsewhere,"' The cabin crew settled in 2008 for the two-year deal - a 4.8% pay increase, followed by a rise in line with inflation.
BA's current offer of 5.9% across two years looks pretty good by comparison.
BA's current offer of 5.9% across two years looks pretty good by comparison.
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Fresh Faces
Given the number of grievances by cabin crew, mentioned in court at the recent imposition appeal, Mr William’s appointment of a top lawyer to Mr McCarthy’s position appears a shrewd move to me.
I don’t personally bear Mr Walsh any malice; he does what it says on the tin. He was brought in to restructure and although we still have a Union, I believe we have all learnt lessons and the members will be more engaged in it’s running in the future.
The agreement to implement the disruption agreement this week has angered the ‘Bassa mentalists’ as the imposition hearing did confirm that the DA is contractual - there are still those who wish to continue with the old 70’s style Unionism. Fortunately Lizanne and Duncan have both supported it’s implementation and I hope this bodes well for peace talks at ACAS this Monday.
It’s true the dispute became personal. Being vilified by the press then having a wall erected in our own head office where fellow workers scrawled obscene graffiti, which even made it on to the BBC news, made it personal.
There are fresh faces in town and a new year ahead. Negotiation is achievable after which we must all focus on rebuilding shattered relationships and put the customer back at the heart of our business.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
I don’t personally bear Mr Walsh any malice; he does what it says on the tin. He was brought in to restructure and although we still have a Union, I believe we have all learnt lessons and the members will be more engaged in it’s running in the future.
The agreement to implement the disruption agreement this week has angered the ‘Bassa mentalists’ as the imposition hearing did confirm that the DA is contractual - there are still those who wish to continue with the old 70’s style Unionism. Fortunately Lizanne and Duncan have both supported it’s implementation and I hope this bodes well for peace talks at ACAS this Monday.
It’s true the dispute became personal. Being vilified by the press then having a wall erected in our own head office where fellow workers scrawled obscene graffiti, which even made it on to the BBC news, made it personal.
There are fresh faces in town and a new year ahead. Negotiation is achievable after which we must all focus on rebuilding shattered relationships and put the customer back at the heart of our business.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
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Colonel - just to keep the record straight VS reneged on their 2 year pay deal in 2008 for CC as financially strapped *yawn yawn*. Only part-one was paid in 2008 so in effect by the time the 2011 pay talks start there would not have a been an increase for 3 years for CC.
You are absolutely correct in saying that Sir RB did offer the alternative in writing 'like it or walk'.
There are serious murmurings within the CC ranks to get anyone who's not a Unite member to join as the general consensus is that Unite can help to iron out the pay issues there.
I wish them all luck.
You are absolutely correct in saying that Sir RB did offer the alternative in writing 'like it or walk'.
There are serious murmurings within the CC ranks to get anyone who's not a Unite member to join as the general consensus is that Unite can help to iron out the pay issues there.
I wish them all luck.
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Dingbaticus
Well with all due respect you can dream!
BA does not reward "good behaviour" it expects it, and merely attempts to punish/exploit bad behaviour.
I know there are many of my colleagues who acted as VCC who now expect some special treatment from BA over agreements/pay etc.
I can tell you with some certainty that if they do truly expect this they will be very disappointed notwithstanding anyone's persoanl reason for volunteering.
The agreement to implement the disruption agreement this week has angered the ‘Bassa mentalists’ as the imposition hearing did confirm that the DA is contractual - there are still those who wish to continue with the old 70’s style Unionism. Fortunately Lizanne and Duncan have both supported it’s implementation and I hope this bodes well for peace talks at ACAS this Monday.
BA does not reward "good behaviour" it expects it, and merely attempts to punish/exploit bad behaviour.
I know there are many of my colleagues who acted as VCC who now expect some special treatment from BA over agreements/pay etc.
I can tell you with some certainty that if they do truly expect this they will be very disappointed notwithstanding anyone's persoanl reason for volunteering.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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BA does reward good behaviour. However, it's definition is probably a little different. If bad behaviour is considered to be striking or taking industrial action, good behaviour by default is not striking or taking industrial action. Therefore the reward for good behaviour is not being punished for bad behaviour. i.e. You will be paid and treated normally.
Semantics I know, but that is how it always works.
Semantics I know, but that is how it always works.
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HF
Yes and agreeing to the implementation of the Disruption Agreement during er disruption will not carry any brownie points.
Going way back it this is one of the more fundamental facets when it comes to dealing with BASSA or indeed any TU.
It was said to me the Company simply cannot accept having to ask permission from the BASSA chair to implement disruption plans.
And the straw that broke the camels back was that shambles of 2 local nights 2 years ago in Prestwick (if memory serves me correctly).
Such actions placed Willie and Tony's microscope firmly on such behaviour and the rest is history, because as we all know this is not only about financial savings but (in the eyes of BA) re-affirming the right to manage.
I can say with some confidence if Lizanne and Duncan (I'm still not sure what he has to do with anything anymore, strange constitution they have. Still the money's good I hear) had not agreed to the DA being implemented BA would have just done it anyway. BA know that and they know BASSA know that are would be powerless to do anything about it.
Once you have made yourself irrelevant it is one hell of a job to make yourself relevant again.
Yes and agreeing to the implementation of the Disruption Agreement during er disruption will not carry any brownie points.
Going way back it this is one of the more fundamental facets when it comes to dealing with BASSA or indeed any TU.
It was said to me the Company simply cannot accept having to ask permission from the BASSA chair to implement disruption plans.
And the straw that broke the camels back was that shambles of 2 local nights 2 years ago in Prestwick (if memory serves me correctly).
Such actions placed Willie and Tony's microscope firmly on such behaviour and the rest is history, because as we all know this is not only about financial savings but (in the eyes of BA) re-affirming the right to manage.
I can say with some confidence if Lizanne and Duncan (I'm still not sure what he has to do with anything anymore, strange constitution they have. Still the money's good I hear) had not agreed to the DA being implemented BA would have just done it anyway. BA know that and they know BASSA know that are would be powerless to do anything about it.
Once you have made yourself irrelevant it is one hell of a job to make yourself relevant again.
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The agreement to implement the disruption agreement this week has angered the ‘Bassa mentalists’ as the imposition hearing did confirm that the DA is contractual - there are still those who wish to continue with the old 70’s style Unionism. Fortunately Lizanne and Duncan have both supported it’s implementation and I hope this bodes well for peace talks at ACAS this Monday.
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Pornpants
I agree with your recollection.
I also recall BASSA having to issue an official repudiation over an instruction not to comply with requests to close window blinds for fear of a charge of unofficial IA.
I agree with your recollection.
I also recall BASSA having to issue an official repudiation over an instruction not to comply with requests to close window blinds for fear of a charge of unofficial IA.
Last edited by IvorBiggun; 3rd Dec 2010 at 18:52.
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Window blinds
Actually it was Unite - in the form of Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley - who had to stamp on BASSA.
Our ref: IA/BA’10/100805.REP
5 August 2010
Dear Colleague
BRITISH AIRWAYS PLC
This Notice is given in accordance with the requirements imposed upon the Union by the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. Only the Executive Council can authorise industrial action and it can only do so after a secret postal ballot.
On 2 August 2010 a posting was published on the BASSA website entitled ‘Closing Window Blinds at the End of Your Flight’. The posting asked cabin crew not to agree to close the window blinds at the end of each flight. This posting could be taken as a call to take industrial action. Cabin crew should ignore this posting and should close the window blinds at the end of each flight as instructed and work normally.
The Executive Council has not authorised any industrial action by Unite the Union members employed by the above company and this Notice relates to all and any calls, or threats of, such action.
On Thursday, 5 August 2010 the Executive Council repudiates all and any calls for, or threats of, such action and is obliged by statute to give notice of that repudiation in the following terms:
"Your Union has repudiated the call (or calls) for industrial action to which this Notice relates and will give no support to unofficial industrial action taken in response to it (or them). If you are dismissed while taking unofficial industrial action, you will have no right to complain of unfair dismissal."
If you fail to work normally, you will be taking part in unofficial action. Members who are dismissed while taking part in unofficial action will not be able to apply to an Employment Tribunal claiming unfair dismissal and nor will the Union be able to take any action in support of their re-engagement.
If members wish to take industrial action at any time in the future they should only do so when the action has been authorised by the Executive Council following a secret postal ballot.
Yours fraternally
DEREK SIMPSON TONY WOODLEY
Joint General Secretary Joint General Secretary
5 August 2010
Dear Colleague
BRITISH AIRWAYS PLC
This Notice is given in accordance with the requirements imposed upon the Union by the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. Only the Executive Council can authorise industrial action and it can only do so after a secret postal ballot.
On 2 August 2010 a posting was published on the BASSA website entitled ‘Closing Window Blinds at the End of Your Flight’. The posting asked cabin crew not to agree to close the window blinds at the end of each flight. This posting could be taken as a call to take industrial action. Cabin crew should ignore this posting and should close the window blinds at the end of each flight as instructed and work normally.
The Executive Council has not authorised any industrial action by Unite the Union members employed by the above company and this Notice relates to all and any calls, or threats of, such action.
On Thursday, 5 August 2010 the Executive Council repudiates all and any calls for, or threats of, such action and is obliged by statute to give notice of that repudiation in the following terms:
"Your Union has repudiated the call (or calls) for industrial action to which this Notice relates and will give no support to unofficial industrial action taken in response to it (or them). If you are dismissed while taking unofficial industrial action, you will have no right to complain of unfair dismissal."
If you fail to work normally, you will be taking part in unofficial action. Members who are dismissed while taking part in unofficial action will not be able to apply to an Employment Tribunal claiming unfair dismissal and nor will the Union be able to take any action in support of their re-engagement.
If members wish to take industrial action at any time in the future they should only do so when the action has been authorised by the Executive Council following a secret postal ballot.
Yours fraternally
DEREK SIMPSON TONY WOODLEY
Joint General Secretary Joint General Secretary
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Reward?
I do not expect any ‘reward’ for the implementation of the disruption agreement.
What it does do is give me hope that the future brings an era of co-operation between my Union and my Company.
I agree that past mistakes such as Prestwickgate and Hot towelgate have instigated the fight by my employer to have the right to manage the business and I believe hard lessons have been learned.
I find it ironic some of you see your own Union as more of an Association and you dismiss my Union as irrelevant, yet I see the Mixed Fleet crew being advised to seek Union recognition from the Company.
Dismiss my Union if you wish but I believe it is still relevant and talks commence on Monday.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
What it does do is give me hope that the future brings an era of co-operation between my Union and my Company.
I agree that past mistakes such as Prestwickgate and Hot towelgate have instigated the fight by my employer to have the right to manage the business and I believe hard lessons have been learned.
I find it ironic some of you see your own Union as more of an Association and you dismiss my Union as irrelevant, yet I see the Mixed Fleet crew being advised to seek Union recognition from the Company.
Dismiss my Union if you wish but I believe it is still relevant and talks commence on Monday.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
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Dingbat
if only it were just "Prestwickgate" or "towelgate".
Unfortunately for your now irrelevant union it goes years and years deeper than that as many of us who are Captains in BA can testify to from painful personal experience of know alls, bickering and militancy when all I (or my colleagues) wanted to do was get our passengers home/away. I have seen it so many times. That is BASSA's legacy, even under the previous Chairman who I had respect for (unlike this one, or the "Branch Secretary", whatever that is now. Still good money eh Dunc?)
I quote
"BA don't run this operation Darling, BASSA do". From a SH CSD a few years ago.
Yes the vast majority of CSD's I fly with are onside and a credit to BA, but the militant (and I say that before this dispute) minority and unfortunately your union branch who have let you down so badly over the 20 years (that I have seen) have screwed you up maybe terminally.
No way back now IMO and that is a shame for the great crew.
Actually I am livid with BASSA because they have empowered the management to an extent no-one could have predicted.
We will all suffer because of the egos of the arrogant bunch that lead a generally great community of cabin crew.
And managment take their blame in that as well, but BASSA mostly.
if only it were just "Prestwickgate" or "towelgate".
Unfortunately for your now irrelevant union it goes years and years deeper than that as many of us who are Captains in BA can testify to from painful personal experience of know alls, bickering and militancy when all I (or my colleagues) wanted to do was get our passengers home/away. I have seen it so many times. That is BASSA's legacy, even under the previous Chairman who I had respect for (unlike this one, or the "Branch Secretary", whatever that is now. Still good money eh Dunc?)
I quote
"BA don't run this operation Darling, BASSA do". From a SH CSD a few years ago.
Yes the vast majority of CSD's I fly with are onside and a credit to BA, but the militant (and I say that before this dispute) minority and unfortunately your union branch who have let you down so badly over the 20 years (that I have seen) have screwed you up maybe terminally.
No way back now IMO and that is a shame for the great crew.
Actually I am livid with BASSA because they have empowered the management to an extent no-one could have predicted.
We will all suffer because of the egos of the arrogant bunch that lead a generally great community of cabin crew.
And managment take their blame in that as well, but BASSA mostly.
Last edited by IvorBiggun; 4th Dec 2010 at 08:57.
Who do you credit with making some of the current cabin crew as the best paid in the country?
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Thats an interesting point Abbey. How far back do you go with the management in question. I left over a decade ago, but the relative rates of pay were still excellent back then.
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BASSA have historically protected LHR and particularly LH. When you circle the waggons too tightly you have nowhere else to go.
Good luck to people who earn good money as cabin crew. I have no issue with that and if BASSA has played a part in that in the past fair enough. However it comes now at what price?
Good luck to people who earn good money as cabin crew. I have no issue with that and if BASSA has played a part in that in the past fair enough. However it comes now at what price?
They refused to sign the Long Range Agreement which was one of the best deals ever for cabin crew. They also tried to trash the consolidation deal that gave crew a huge boost in pensionable pay.
It was CC89 (old version) that did all of the deals that improved crew conditions.