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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

Old 4th Oct 2010, 08:32
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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

This thread is intended for use by people presently employed as airline staff.
To discuss BA Cabin Crew industrial relations only.

If you do not fall into this category - please do not post here: Please visit the Pax/SLF Forum where there is an active thread running HERE that welcomes your thoughts.
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Old 4th Oct 2010, 22:34
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Funny that this thread has so far been viewed 1326 times and yet no one has written anything yet! Just how many lurkers follow this conversation?
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Old 4th Oct 2010, 23:45
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Perhaps because there's really, really nothing left to say.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 06:34
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It appears Bassa still has a lot to say.

BASSA - Latest News "BILL’S WORLD" Oct 4th, 2010 by admin

“Bill’s world”... Time for a party? Excellent!

...Errmmm, well maybe not quite.
Unfortunately, unlike the 90’s cult movie ‘Wayne’s World’, Bill’s world isn’t particularly excellent and, for most people, it certainly isn’t party time. To be honest, on the whole it’s actually just a pretty depressing place to be, with a split, demotivated workforce and an out-of-touch, out-of-control management busy “ethnically cleansing” any crew who dare to disagree or question.
In fact in “Bills world” things go from the ridiculous to the downright callous as the days go by; during this week alone we all received an ESS mail from Rachael Clarke, informing us that we would be having three additional VCC crew members on flights and for us to give them a “big, warm, cabin crew welcome on board”
The irony that these are the very people that volunteered to undermine and break our industrial action, ensuring that we not only lost money and work but also lost our staff travel, seems to have completely passed her by. Obviously they are also keeping their hand in, ready to break the next one. We have no idea what jobs they actually normally do, but clearly they cannot be missed very much; perhaps they should have a look over their own shoulders, as the shadow of new fleet approaches, they may very well find themselves on it, permanently this time.

XXXX XXXX, one of our most popular, short haul representatives, is facing a difficult and personal ongoing battle against cancer, we of course wish him well and know that XXXX will also feel much better and more supported in his fight, with the news that Bill Francis’s department has decided to stop paying him after the minimum 6 month period of sickness. In the past, fleet managers used their discretion to be humane and caring to people in difficult circumstances; not any longer in Bill’s world. They seem to believe that worrying how to pay your mortgage and being penniless will surely aid any cancer sufferer in their battle to stay alive. Don’t worry though, XXXX wasn’t singled out for this special treatment for being a union rep, we just use him as an example, everybody with long-term sickness, including cancer, now get treated exactly the same. Incidentally XXXX has given 45 years of service to this company meaning that XXXX was attending to passengers while Bill was still in nappies!
(Now that’s a thought not worth lingering over).

National newspapers recently revealed that Mr Walsh, alongside other Directors, is also set to receive massive future share bonuses and benefits, ironically at the exact same time as cabin crew have to pay more for a reduced pension.
The ill-judged fight for survival now resembles more of an unseemly squabble at the trough. As merger after merger is announced or rumoured, money now appears to be no object.

Chosen your future pension option? Then take a long hard look at your final pension projection and its meagre final figure, then be aware that a large proportion of our flight deck colleagues will receive pensions of over a hundred thousand pounds per year. Legislation only provides protection for pensions up to £29,748.68p, most cabin crew are of course, below this threshold. Perhaps that is why the pilot community were motivated to organise volunteers to break a strike of people who are possibly on a tenth of their salary. It would appear their motive was to save themselves, rather than British Airways. Lenny McCluskey, our preferred candidate has publicly committed to try and have BALPA removed from the TUC family for their crass, selfish actions.

So, to cheer us all up, how about: “Unite victorious as removed crew member is back on board” as a headline instead?
Don’t laugh, it’s true, we originally took industrial action over the removal of one crew member without agreement - we have now gained three! Job done, let’s all relax. Okay, they are all working to New Fleet terms with no agreement but hey, let’s not get picky...
A prominent central London billboard aptly reads:
“People from bad areas steal your mobile phone,
People from good areas steal your pension”

.....in Willy, Billy and Silly’s case it comes with a happy grin thrown in but not for much longer, keep the faith.

X X X X ......believe it.

Last edited by Far-Ted; 5th Oct 2010 at 09:15.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 07:05
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Go on then, let's remind ourselves about this imposition malarkey shall we?

You know, the one Nigel Stott wanted damages for, even though he never actually set foot on a plane after it happened.

Imposition case thrown out
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 09:06
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An interesting missive from BASSA. Full of the usual stuff, but conspicuously short on anything that could actually progress the dispute. I guess BASSA have now placed all of their hopes in the hands of the courts.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 09:10
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My Bold below from BASSA latest
out-of-control management busy “ethnically cleansing” any crew who dare to disagree or question.
That reference above is a bit much to be honest, however I did like the bit about getting the crew member back at the end, delicious irony indeed.

No content regarding any forthcoming action however, save for the mention of BALPA's future membership, so CC are still in the wilderness as to their future and their ST, those still in the union that havent accepted the last offer that is.

Also, are these messages released from BASSA never from a person, at most all I ever see is Admin and on this one not even that. As I dont have access to the source (thankfully) can someone confirm this is how they are sent out, unsigned. Is that usual?
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 10:41
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So Len wants BALPA out of the TUC? It's a shame the BALPA members don't get a vote as Len's count would probably increase by 3000.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 12:48
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And now?

As this is near the beginning of a new, albeit continued thread, would any BASSA supporters, current or past, like to tell us where they think we currently are in this dispute and how they think it could be resolved given what has happened up to now?

I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that BA will accede to their demands, so the question is really, not what you want, but rather what would you settle for.

I realise that this may leave you open to the wrath of some of the more enthusiastic posters, but I would be very interested to hear your views.

Thanks

Sgt Wilson
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 15:00
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Perhaps that is why the pilot community were motivated to organise volunteers to break a strike of people who are possibly on a tenth of their salary. It would appear their motive was to save themselves, rather than British Airways. Lenny McCluskey, our preferred candidate has publicly committed to try and have BALPA removed from the TUC family for their crass, selfish actions.
How bizarre, I don't remember any one from any organisation apart from BA management 'organising' anything?

BALPA removed from the TUC family for their crass, selfish actions.
The Association in question merely stated that it was up to their members to make up their own minds as to what to do. A rep resigned as he felt his beliefs (or disbelief in the BASSA actions) conflicted with his role as a rep.

So, a normal BASSA missive with very little substance then.

All hail Len McKlusky, another Union stalwart with the death of an industry behind him. Can't wait.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 16:07
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Looks like BASSA have "locked out" legacy crew from lots of Long range work, and thus lots of nice long range box payments. Seems that Narita(moves to the 777 in 2011), Hanida and Buenos Aires are all destined for "new fleet" also I have been told that "legacy crew" will not be flying the A380 or the 787

Well done BASSA for your hard line stance
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 17:29
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Angel

Pornpants, it important that you don't pass on hearsay as fact on this thread.
The only routes that have been confirmed so far are from November- Prague, St. Petersburg and Pisa and from December- Denver and Las Vegas.

WW crew are trained on the 777 and the crew who fly on the new aircraft has not been decided yet.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 17:43
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Betty girl

dear oh dear

Its a rumour forum!!

That being said I post what I hear from some very well placed people

Pornpants, it important that you don't pass on hearsay as fact on this thread.
The only routes that have been confirmed so far are from November- Prague, St. Petersburg and Pisa and from December- Denver and Las Vegas.

WW crew are trained on the 777 and the crew who fly on the new aircraft has not been decided yet.
Where have I passed anything off as "fact"?

To repeat myself , I have been told by numerous people over the last 10 days that "legacy crew' will not be operating the flights listed above nor will they be crewing the 787 or a380.

Ask yourself if you were BA, and in order to save money what would you do? Lets face it LA LA has already admitted in writting that on the SIN terminator alone BA could save £4 million per year with new fleet.

I am talking summer 2011 for the above routes!!!! 4 x a380 arrive in 2013, and 787 hopefully start arrive late 2012. So the wishlist you quote above is long out of date by then!

I say again, I am really really glad BASSA have taken the hard line stance that they have, its worked wonders
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 18:29
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Thumbs up Let's make up a rumour

PornpantsWhilst I admit this is a rumour network,I would like to dull things for a while and add some facts.
I know that's really boring so I won't be long.
As you know,all crew were sent a letter by Bill Francis,with the option of the non unionised crew being able to sign in agreement.
I have that letter in front of me now.Bill Francis has said:

Access to route network

I intend to ensure a fair and transparent distribution of routes to all fleets based on commercial need.

Access to aircraft type

I intend to deploy new aircraft based on commercial need across across existing and new fleets.New aircraft will be introduced on a fair and transparent basis across all the company's fleets.Your existing terms,conditions and fleet agreements will apply when new aircraft are operated on existing fleets.as new aircraft are introduced across all of the company's fleets,you will be trained in order to receive the necessary licences as required by regulation.

From where I am sitting that seems quite fair.

Are you now saying that Bill Francis is not to be believed and Bassa were right all along?If this has now changed then crew will have no faith in anyone!!




Any way back to rumours now

Last edited by 617sqn; 5th Oct 2010 at 18:57.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 18:47
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Virgin currently recruiting cabin crew

To put to bed the pay/market rate issue, Virgin are currently recruiting cabin crew.

Job Details
Cabin Crew


Ref 69932
Location
Contract Type Permanent
Salary Range £0 to £15,000
Job Type Cabin Crew

Job Details

As you would expect, we like to look after our staff and offer a competitive package starting with a full time, permanent contract.

The following is currently provided (after a qualifying period):·

- a basic salary of £11,564; trip pay, plus on board commission.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 19:11
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Are you now saying that Bill Francis is not to be believed and Bassa were right all along?If this has now changed then crew will have no faith in anyone!!
Nobody was lying. That was part of the deal that the BASSA membership rejected. That deal is not on the table anymore so any promises in it aren't either. The ones who signed have the pay protection so route transfer isn't as much of an issue.
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 19:24
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BASSA's communications are full of lies and half-truths. Surely there must come a point when even the most fundamental BASSA supporters will think "well if that's bo****ks then maybe the rest is as well"?
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 20:19
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Are you now saying that Bill Francis is not to be believed and Bassa were right all along?If this has now changed then crew will have no faith in anyone!!
Nobody was lying. That was part of the deal that the BASSA membership rejected. That deal is not on the table anymore so any promises in it aren't either. The ones who signed have the pay protection so route transfer isn't as much of an issue.
Che?
Are you saying BA have lied to those of us who signed up to the offer re-route transfer?
Is that why senior managers are holding drop in sessions on Eurofleet for Pursers and CSDs to see how they can utilise and manage both these supervisory grades more effectively? That deal is very much there. I happen to have it too and I will ask Bill Francis next time I see him to see if you guys are right. It is a contract we have with BA and it makes no sense whatsoever to have us sitting at home on full pay while Mixed Fleet do these routes. By the way, please stop calling us Legacy or Heritage crew.
We are CTCs!
For your information that is Current Talented Crew and we are the best!
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 20:25
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Angel

That deal is binding in it's entirety for those crew that signed it, so although other crew have not signed up to the pay protection, the other parts apply to all crew whatever fleet.

There is absolutely no way BA will have decided which crew work on what aircraft as far away as 2013. It all depends where they send the aircraft, when it arrives, and which other aircraft are being operated on that route. If for example, at that time, Mixed fleet was still operating on the 777 and the new aircraft was going to be used on a route that also had 747s flying on, they may choose to use WW crew and vice versa it may be more flexible to use Mixed Fleet on another route etc.

Obviously some long range routes will move across because otherwise as WW gets smaller they would start to operate proportionately more long range, if some did not move across. This would impact on their 900 hours and make them even richer!!! So I think everyone knows some long range routes will move over to Mixed Fleet.

What is strange is that some of you seem to revel in the thought of your colleagues losing out. Very strange considering it is you same people, who constantly point out to everyone, that the majority of us worked and did not strike.

Here! here! Tiramasu
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Old 5th Oct 2010, 20:44
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It's certainly a coincidence that NRT all of the sudden will become a 777 service next year as well HND and EZE. What destinations would be next? Perhaps SIN as they are re-negotiating the terms and conditions of our crew based there. PEK and PVG would undoubtedly come next. There's also a rumour circulating that SFO will go to Mixed Fleet.

I can't believe the naivety amongst some of you. Do you actually believe that BA will protect current crew from Mixed Fleet just because they have said they intend to insure a fair and transparent distribution of aircraft and destinations? To intend means absolutely nothing. Perhaps it's time to wake up for some of you and see what's happening.
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