BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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"Also as well as the other problems detailed with bidline, the real cost to the company is all work is not guaranteed to be covered. "
Actually that couldn't be more wrong...the FUNDAMENTAL priciple of bidline is that the pilots undertake to ensure the flying programme is covered. That is pretty much page 1, rule 1 of the BALPA/BA/BIDLINE book. True, occasionally force draft has been used but that is actually within the rules, which guesss what?...is to cover the work!
There is NO way BA will pay for a cabin crew bidline system but they would probably be willing to give Carmen a go on WW. I bet the BASSA reps who have been using/abusing the derostering system wouldn't like to see it's introduction though. go figure :-/
Actually that couldn't be more wrong...the FUNDAMENTAL priciple of bidline is that the pilots undertake to ensure the flying programme is covered. That is pretty much page 1, rule 1 of the BALPA/BA/BIDLINE book. True, occasionally force draft has been used but that is actually within the rules, which guesss what?...is to cover the work!
There is NO way BA will pay for a cabin crew bidline system but they would probably be willing to give Carmen a go on WW. I bet the BASSA reps who have been using/abusing the derostering system wouldn't like to see it's introduction though. go figure :-/
.... we all expected two days off after longhaul, seems like it is 2 local nights we are getting - we are all sure that BA promised 2 days - the meeting with scheduling seems like ages ago now though and cant remember the exact words they used, ....
You don't seem at all sure, but neither do you appear to have made efforts to positively find out the answers. We would all welcome an update once you have some detail.
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There is NO way BA will pay for a cabin crew bidline system
We need to find some positives for all cabin crew and maybe an innovative rostering system for MF would be a start.
Think positive.
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Mr Benouli
I didn't ask for, nor do I require condescending remarks from somebody like yourself and I suggest you keep them to yourself - I was responding to a posting by another Cabin Crew member on this the Cabin Crew forum, supercilious behaviour is not called for and is unwarranted.
I might be new to BA - however I have many years experience working in managerial positions elsewhere - I understand that when 'new' people join a large organisation there are often many processes and procedures for them to learn, flying has many more than that with the different Schemes and legalities - you sound like a great 'man manager' - rather then give helpful advice you speak down to people as if they are imbecilles.
I suggest you read again as I havent contradicted myself once
Yes
Yes
Yes I am quite sure we where told nothing about any 'disruption' to rostering until numbers of MF crew grew and stabilised
Yes I have - how do you know what I have or havent done and who I have contacted since my last post?
What concern is it of yours? You are not Cabin Crew
I might be new to BA - however I have many years experience working in managerial positions elsewhere - I understand that when 'new' people join a large organisation there are often many processes and procedures for them to learn, flying has many more than that with the different Schemes and legalities - you sound like a great 'man manager' - rather then give helpful advice you speak down to people as if they are imbecilles.
MFCREW, there are some real contradictions here!
Have you, or anyone else in a similar position, made the effort to contact your manager/rostering and query this?
Have you checked your contract/MoA or any other documentation you recently acquired?
Are you sure you weren't told their would be some 'disruption' to rostering until numbers of MF crew grew and stabilised?
You don't seem at all sure, but neither do you appear to have made efforts to positively find out the answers.
We would all welcome an update once you have some detail.
Last edited by MFCREW; 1st Dec 2010 at 15:40.
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I'm happy to think positively about a bidding system for crew. I think it could and can work. BUT why should BA pay for another system to roster crew when they have one that provides (for BA) what they need. It covers the work.
If the CC community wants a bidding system they will have to change their relationship to work itself. As stated above the most basic thing of a bidding system is that all the work must be covered, therefore the crew community must make a guarantee to BA that this will happen. The crew community itself becomes responsible for work coverage. That means MBTs etc will disappear, you go back to legality - if it is legal you can bid for it, but if you bid for it and get it, you must fly it. To back this up must be trip assignment.
The upside is some choice the downside is that that not everyone gets their choice and still has to fly to places they do not want to go to at times they don't want to. Someone always loses out in a bidding system - someone is always the most junior.
None of that is insurmountable but it would take a massive change in attitude toward work by crew - no more of the charity Paris!
However, the most insurmountable problem is that it will cost BA more to buy and run. So what are crew prepared to give up in order to buy into a bidding system? It is all well and good for crew to say others have this system why will BA not buy it for us? In truth there has to a sound economic argument in order for BA to invest in such a system. When you get such a system, you get it warts and all, the good and the bad bits. You cannot cherry pick the good bits of what you have now and cherry pick the best bits of a bidding system.
If the CC community wants a bidding system they will have to change their relationship to work itself. As stated above the most basic thing of a bidding system is that all the work must be covered, therefore the crew community must make a guarantee to BA that this will happen. The crew community itself becomes responsible for work coverage. That means MBTs etc will disappear, you go back to legality - if it is legal you can bid for it, but if you bid for it and get it, you must fly it. To back this up must be trip assignment.
The upside is some choice the downside is that that not everyone gets their choice and still has to fly to places they do not want to go to at times they don't want to. Someone always loses out in a bidding system - someone is always the most junior.
None of that is insurmountable but it would take a massive change in attitude toward work by crew - no more of the charity Paris!
However, the most insurmountable problem is that it will cost BA more to buy and run. So what are crew prepared to give up in order to buy into a bidding system? It is all well and good for crew to say others have this system why will BA not buy it for us? In truth there has to a sound economic argument in order for BA to invest in such a system. When you get such a system, you get it warts and all, the good and the bad bits. You cannot cherry pick the good bits of what you have now and cherry pick the best bits of a bidding system.
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Bettygirl
sounds very authoritative, is your source reliable?
Would not suprise me, a friend at UNITE has always maintained that he was bought to BA for one reason alone, only time will tell
Pushed by the sound of it.
Would not suprise me, a friend at UNITE has always maintained that he was bought to BA for one reason alone, only time will tell
Last edited by Pornpants1; 1st Dec 2010 at 14:57.
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Pornpants,
I have no source just that the wording in the email 'has decided not to accept a role within the new BA operating company' sounds similar to when our manager Joy Horden went after Willie Walsh took over. They never said she was pushed but we all knew that she was and they described it in a similar way then.
Of course he may well just hate the job and want to go. He has by all accounts had a horrid year.
I obviously don't know or have any inside information.
I have no source just that the wording in the email 'has decided not to accept a role within the new BA operating company' sounds similar to when our manager Joy Horden went after Willie Walsh took over. They never said she was pushed but we all knew that she was and they described it in a similar way then.
Of course he may well just hate the job and want to go. He has by all accounts had a horrid year.
I obviously don't know or have any inside information.
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Juan
Bidline....However, the most insurmountable problem is that it will cost BA more to buy and run
There could be a big cost saving if you don't need horrendous levels of standby cover.
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There could be a big cost saving if you don't need horrendous levels of standby cover.
MFCREW
Sorry, but this is a public forum, and this particular "thread is intended for use by people presently employed as airline staff" and to "discuss BA Cabin Crew industrial relations". Questions will occur, whether you approve of them or not, and they don't have to be made by Cabin Crew.
You were also openly discussing what you thought was a problem with your MF roster, MF being a new contracted group of cabin crew, a group which poses a very central problem to BASSA hardliners and, thus, the current BA industrial relations problem.
Again, sorry, but I have read it and I still see contradictions. You stated that you, and others in your group, ("we all") "expected" days off, and were "all sure that BA promised 2 days", but you "cant remember the exact words they used". 'Expected', and 'all sure' followed by 'can't remember' seems very contradictory.
Furthermore, you go on to say that you have consulted those 'in the know', and checked paperwork in your possession, and are quite sure that this isn't a blip in the rostering. Did that give you the certainty you seemed to be seeking about your roster? Will you get your 2 days off between long-haul trips, or will it just be 2 nights (one day)? I'm interested, which is why I asked in the first place.
I didn't ask for, nor do I require condescending remarks from somebody like yourself and I suggest you keep them to yourself
What concern is it of yours? You are not Cabin Crew
You were also openly discussing what you thought was a problem with your MF roster, MF being a new contracted group of cabin crew, a group which poses a very central problem to BASSA hardliners and, thus, the current BA industrial relations problem.
I suggest you read again as I havent contradicted myself once
Furthermore, you go on to say that you have consulted those 'in the know', and checked paperwork in your possession, and are quite sure that this isn't a blip in the rostering. Did that give you the certainty you seemed to be seeking about your roster? Will you get your 2 days off between long-haul trips, or will it just be 2 nights (one day)? I'm interested, which is why I asked in the first place.
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Mr Benouli
Again, sorry, but I have read it and I still see contradictions. You stated that you, and others in your group, ("we all") "expected" days off, and were "all sure that BA promised 2 days", but you "cant remember the exact words they used". 'Expected', and 'all sure' followed by 'can't remember' seems very contradictory.
It now appears though that there is no onus on BA to provide 2 clear days off after a longhaul trip - the only onus is to provide 9 days off a month and providing Scheme is met - one colleague has three longhaul trips in a row with one day off after each.
As for you picking me up on not knowing everything verbatim after only 3 weeks in the job, again that's highly supportive, so thanks for that - Im sure every single current BA Crew Member knows their rostering arrangements inside out
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Bidding
If the CC community wants a bidding system they will have to change their relationship to work itself. As stated above the most basic thing of a bidding system is that all the work must be covered, therefore the crew community must make a guarantee to BA that this will happen. The crew community itself becomes responsible for work coverage. That means MBTs etc will disappear, you go back to legality
To be fair all fleets except WWLHR do indeed have a bidding system. All the work is covered and we all cover it using our MOA's not legality.
In fact CARMEN even runs LGW flightcrew rosters and work.
Is this an example of certain fleets being blinkered to what goes on outside their own fleet?
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As for you picking me up on not knowing everything verbatim after only 3 weeks in the job, again that's highly supportive, so thanks for that - Im sure every single current BA Crew Member knows their rostering arrangements inside out
Although to be fair, even some of the crewing staff don't know one agreement from the other
Just make sure you know it inside out soon!