BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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This proposal is nothing but a waste of time.
ST returned but no seniority until 2013? Sign away your right to strike? BA 'intending' to move a fair share of routes to Mixed Fleet?
No deal for me. See you at Bedfont!
ST returned but no seniority until 2013? Sign away your right to strike? BA 'intending' to move a fair share of routes to Mixed Fleet?
No deal for me. See you at Bedfont!
While the majority give, you wont give a bean will you MissM, just more threats of strikes to 'undo' our work!
An eye opener for me. I really did not realise that such people were in our midst. So pleased that you are the minority of minorities MissM.
At first glance of the document I think it to be VERY fair indeed, particularly in the present climate.
I am a bit disappointed that WW has been so generous in giving back ST with original DOJ. I feel it would have been fairer, and recognise the efforts of those of us who kept the airline flying, if the DOJ had been reduced to a loss of 5 or 10 years, rather than give it back.
Even although strikers have lost ST for 2 years that does not feel sufficient to make up for the cost that has been involved to the company.
Saying that, if this concession re ST is enough to make people 'see sense' and sign the offer then it will have been worth it.
- Management managing the company at lasy - NOT bassa.
- Huge savings from MF and a re-emphasis on standards as a whole.
- BA to decide manning levels. (The whole idea that bassa felt they could dictate the number of crew to serve 400 pax (as was) or 270ish in high-J config. That should never, and will not now, be any remit of bassa.
Hopefully this can be the first step in getting us back to being a profitable and customer-focussed airline.
I am a bit disappointed that WW has been so generous in giving back ST with original DOJ. I feel it would have been fairer, and recognise the efforts of those of us who kept the airline flying, if the DOJ had been reduced to a loss of 5 or 10 years, rather than give it back.
Even although strikers have lost ST for 2 years that does not feel sufficient to make up for the cost that has been involved to the company.
Saying that, if this concession re ST is enough to make people 'see sense' and sign the offer then it will have been worth it.
- Management managing the company at lasy - NOT bassa.
- Huge savings from MF and a re-emphasis on standards as a whole.
- BA to decide manning levels. (The whole idea that bassa felt they could dictate the number of crew to serve 400 pax (as was) or 270ish in high-J config. That should never, and will not now, be any remit of bassa.
Hopefully this can be the first step in getting us back to being a profitable and customer-focussed airline.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Offer looks extremely fair to me. Return of ST with immediate effect and seniority returned in two years strikes me as very reasonable, considering WW could have stuck to his guns and said no return of seniority. Of course it all now hangs on how many Miss M's there are as to whether the offer will get bounced. But it does put the BASSA leadership in a cleft stick. To campaign against the offer is sticking two fingers up at Tony Woodley. It is also kicking into touch any suggestion of sacked staff getting reinstated, although DH is not getting his job back anyway. Add on that BASSA would still need Unite's approval for a strike ballot. Now if they hack off Unite, the union is not likely to provide support for further industrial action. So very much the endgame.
On the positive side. This will provide BASSA with the opportunity to get back to providing the support that crew need. It will allow the branch to gain a fresh injection of talent in terms of reps, branch secretary etc. which hopefully will lead to more productive working with management. BA manageent will have learned a lot from this episode and hopefully will also be receptive to a changed BASSA team.
On the positive side. This will provide BASSA with the opportunity to get back to providing the support that crew need. It will allow the branch to gain a fresh injection of talent in terms of reps, branch secretary etc. which hopefully will lead to more productive working with management. BA manageent will have learned a lot from this episode and hopefully will also be receptive to a changed BASSA team.
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Miss M
You know I support you and have been impressed on how you have held yourself under the constant insults from a few, but there does come a time when you have to look where you are. If I may, can I ask you to outline what is absolutely unacceptable about the current offer, apart from the staff travel/dismissals issue. You have accepted that change is needed, so what would you change? We can go off to PM if you want, or I can leave it alone completely.
Join Date: Oct 2010
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This is the same deal that was on the table in MARCH!! It was withdrawn as soon as strike dates were announced.
TorC - the things you mention were ALL in the March offer!
Only differences I can see are the Staff Travel etc, clauses. These are all a direct result of IA!
Can someone please tell me WHAT exactly IA has achieved?
TorC - the things you mention were ALL in the March offer!
Only differences I can see are the Staff Travel etc, clauses. These are all a direct result of IA!
Can someone please tell me WHAT exactly IA has achieved?
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Colonel White,
I suspect that there are still 3 or 4,000 MissMs out there.
I have been told by a senior manager that 90 days notice is BA's next move should this offer be rejected.
I suspect that there are still 3 or 4,000 MissMs out there.
I have been told by a senior manager that 90 days notice is BA's next move should this offer be rejected.
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I can't see how BASSA can recommend rejection of this offer. If they do, then their members will vote in line with their recommendation - although the majority won't be great. But what good would that do? Tony Woodley will refuse to sanction a strike ballot, so there will be no strike to pressure BA and things will remain as they are: no pay rise, no ST returned, no variable top up pay, no prospect of sacked people getting their jobs back.
You can now see why Willie Walsh has offered the return of ST after repeatedly saying that he would never do so. He has lost that battle but in doing so he will win the war.
You can now see why Willie Walsh has offered the return of ST after repeatedly saying that he would never do so. He has lost that battle but in doing so he will win the war.
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Radarident.
I can't say what the reaction is on the Bassa Forum as I'm not a member, however it seems to have been met with outrage (ie the usual, colourful, expletive language symbols) by some posters on the Crew Forum. So, I am sure that there ARE, unfortunately, several others of the Miss M ilk out there - like an accident waiting to happen! If they are still not able to see the big picture, I can only hope their votes will pale into insignifigance through a full response from the entire Bassa membership this time.
I can't say what the reaction is on the Bassa Forum as I'm not a member, however it seems to have been met with outrage (ie the usual, colourful, expletive language symbols) by some posters on the Crew Forum. So, I am sure that there ARE, unfortunately, several others of the Miss M ilk out there - like an accident waiting to happen! If they are still not able to see the big picture, I can only hope their votes will pale into insignifigance through a full response from the entire Bassa membership this time.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Well looks like all you chaps will be working at Xmas then manning the doors say goodbye to a spiffing good roast on Xmas day because this offer is dead in the water. I'm just waiting to see the looks on the faces of the so called backing BA chaps who find the department they work for goes adios to Espana with no sense of loyalty shown by the little man. Wake up your days are numbered as your jobs can be carried out cheaper on the continent.
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Caribbean Boy
I think you'll find that the BASSA leadership will not be permitted to express a view one way or the other on this offer. I get the impression that Tony Woodley has had a bellyful of them. As with the 2007 dispute, he's gone ahead and done a deal with BA because BASSA were totally incapable of doing one. As with 2007, the BASSA executive are being told that this is the best deal under the circumstances. The only difference with 2007 is that the membership will get the option to accept or reject. Rejection will not result in a better offer though and strike action will almost certainly provoke a far stronger reaction from BA management. I'd reckon that if BASSA were able to summon up enough support for a strike (assuming that Unite would allow them to ballot), those who walked out could kiss goodbye to staff travel coming back and indeed could well be kissing goodbye to a job.
Watersidewonker.
You clearly haven't been paying attention to what has been happening in other departments over the last couple of years. We've all reduced headcount, had pay freezes and generally made great strides in becoming more efficient. Our layers of management have been slashed. Cetainly there is a possibility that some functions might wind up in Madrid in the future, but then equally there is the prospect that some functions that are undertaken in Spain may get moved to Heathrow. It all depends on who can provide people with the right skills and capabilities at the right price. We've also seen what were head office functions get outsourced to India. It's called change. We recognise it and accept that it happens. Anyone who believes that they can prevent change is not only deluded, but also in for a rather unpleasant surprise.
I think you'll find that the BASSA leadership will not be permitted to express a view one way or the other on this offer. I get the impression that Tony Woodley has had a bellyful of them. As with the 2007 dispute, he's gone ahead and done a deal with BA because BASSA were totally incapable of doing one. As with 2007, the BASSA executive are being told that this is the best deal under the circumstances. The only difference with 2007 is that the membership will get the option to accept or reject. Rejection will not result in a better offer though and strike action will almost certainly provoke a far stronger reaction from BA management. I'd reckon that if BASSA were able to summon up enough support for a strike (assuming that Unite would allow them to ballot), those who walked out could kiss goodbye to staff travel coming back and indeed could well be kissing goodbye to a job.
Watersidewonker.
You clearly haven't been paying attention to what has been happening in other departments over the last couple of years. We've all reduced headcount, had pay freezes and generally made great strides in becoming more efficient. Our layers of management have been slashed. Cetainly there is a possibility that some functions might wind up in Madrid in the future, but then equally there is the prospect that some functions that are undertaken in Spain may get moved to Heathrow. It all depends on who can provide people with the right skills and capabilities at the right price. We've also seen what were head office functions get outsourced to India. It's called change. We recognise it and accept that it happens. Anyone who believes that they can prevent change is not only deluded, but also in for a rather unpleasant surprise.
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Watersidewonker
You are delusional, and don't deserve this very generous offer from BA. To be quite frank, if you reject it and continue with your antics then it is you who's "days are numbered'. Think very carefully about what your options are.
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Litebulbs
And you know very well that I respect yours. There are a couple of issues including that seniority will not be counted until 2013 as well top-up payment will not be included for striking crew. It means that we will sign away our right for instrustrial action.
Watersidewonker
I agree with you. All those backing BA (including those crossing the picket line but mostly our VCC who usually have this period off) should be prepared for working this Christmas in case we go on strike.
And you know very well that I respect yours. There are a couple of issues including that seniority will not be counted until 2013 as well top-up payment will not be included for striking crew. It means that we will sign away our right for instrustrial action.
Watersidewonker
Well looks like all you chaps will be working at Xmas then manning the doors say goodbye to a spiffing good roast on Xmas day because this offer is dead in the water. I'm just waiting to see the looks on the faces of the so called backing BA chaps who find the department they work for goes adios to Espana with no sense of loyalty shown by the little man. Wake up your days are numbered as your jobs can be carried out cheaper on the continent.
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If you reject this offer never mind BA giving you 90 notice, send for the men in white coats to take you now.
Im my department we have had overtime to cut to nothing, and had our numbers cut but we just get on with it.
We would love a 2 year pay deal as our last pay rise was over 2 years ago.
MissM what more do you want.
One issue I do forsee is that most crew who want to work and did work have told BASSA /Unite where to stick their membership. Is it only the MissM's of the sky's left in BASSA in which case maybe WW should derecongnise BASSA and put it to the crew as a department.
Im my department we have had overtime to cut to nothing, and had our numbers cut but we just get on with it.
We would love a 2 year pay deal as our last pay rise was over 2 years ago.
MissM what more do you want.
One issue I do forsee is that most crew who want to work and did work have told BASSA /Unite where to stick their membership. Is it only the MissM's of the sky's left in BASSA in which case maybe WW should derecongnise BASSA and put it to the crew as a department.
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Watersidewonker, much though I hate feeding trolls, you said
This does rather display a degree of ignorance that I find amusing.
a) the Iberia fleet is almost exclusively Airbus based.
b) aircraft engineers are certified by type.
c) BA's fleet is predominantly Boeing based
Now given a, b, and c how do you reckon Iberia are going to
1)be able to recruit sufficient certified engineers to cover both fleets
2) find enough space to construct a load of new hangar spaces to handle both the casualty and planned maintenance that would be required.
Love to hear your explanation, but won't hold my breath on a reply.
I would hate to be working in engineering once the little man gets his way no doubt Spanish lessons will be the way forward.
a) the Iberia fleet is almost exclusively Airbus based.
b) aircraft engineers are certified by type.
c) BA's fleet is predominantly Boeing based
Now given a, b, and c how do you reckon Iberia are going to
1)be able to recruit sufficient certified engineers to cover both fleets
2) find enough space to construct a load of new hangar spaces to handle both the casualty and planned maintenance that would be required.
Love to hear your explanation, but won't hold my breath on a reply.
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MissM
Presumably if the majority vote is to accept the deal offered, you will wish to leave BA ? I say this as from your comments it is clear that you feel that the offer on the table is unacceptable as far as you are concerned. Clearly, it would be foolhardy to remain with BA under those circumstances.
Presumably if the majority vote is to accept the deal offered, you will wish to leave BA ? I say this as from your comments it is clear that you feel that the offer on the table is unacceptable as far as you are concerned. Clearly, it would be foolhardy to remain with BA under those circumstances.
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Well looks like all you chaps will be working at Xmas then manning the doors say goodbye to a spiffing good roast on Xmas day because this offer is dead in the water.
Wonderful how so few can be so deluded as to the forward state of their employment.
Watersidewonker, is the champagne you put in the fridge still chilling after waiting for 18 months for the victorious court hearing and the triumphant resignation of Willie Walsh? Or are all of your predictions as wildly innacurate as that one?