BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave mate, it doesn't take a little comment from me to cause trouble on this thread at all.
Regardless, the purpose of my post wasn's as you'd interpreted.
My post was more along the lines of what was suggested by the more observant "dawdler" and "locked door".
MANY of the strikers have been quick to suggest that the loss of staff travel doesn't matter to them one iota. However, some of the same people have been the most vocal when it's come to trying to secure free tickets for friends and family over the festive period.
Additionally, this year we've seen a lot of people saying that they'd be going sick over Christmas should the company not issue them with these tickets as they didn't want to go away alone over the festive period.
When did taking friends and family away at Christmas become a right?
Didn't we all sign up to do this job knowing that we'd sometimes have to spend such occasions away from those we love?
I still have the utmost respect for the majority of those who are striking; standing up for what they believe - but as locked door points out, we're seeing blatant displays of double standard at the moment.
Further, I don't like being in limbo and, until either an agreement is reached or the strikes resume, that's what I feel this company is in. The sooner one or the other occurs the better as only then can the company - and the union - begin making plans for the future.
Regardless, the purpose of my post wasn's as you'd interpreted.
My post was more along the lines of what was suggested by the more observant "dawdler" and "locked door".
MANY of the strikers have been quick to suggest that the loss of staff travel doesn't matter to them one iota. However, some of the same people have been the most vocal when it's come to trying to secure free tickets for friends and family over the festive period.
Additionally, this year we've seen a lot of people saying that they'd be going sick over Christmas should the company not issue them with these tickets as they didn't want to go away alone over the festive period.
When did taking friends and family away at Christmas become a right?
Didn't we all sign up to do this job knowing that we'd sometimes have to spend such occasions away from those we love?
I still have the utmost respect for the majority of those who are striking; standing up for what they believe - but as locked door points out, we're seeing blatant displays of double standard at the moment.
Further, I don't like being in limbo and, until either an agreement is reached or the strikes resume, that's what I feel this company is in. The sooner one or the other occurs the better as only then can the company - and the union - begin making plans for the future.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: M3 usually!
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crewmour in the CRC is that WW fleet received a lot less Xmas trip requests this year and the management are concerned that the sickness rate will spike sharply over the festive period. Those managers who have trained as VCC have (allegedly) been told to keep their uniform and passports nearby in case they are required to fill in! May not be the season of goodwill to all!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Blu Riband, in post 1447 you refer to a campaign to undermine Captains authority leading to off loads and suspensions and my well documented problem with it during my flights.
I have never been offloaded as, like many of my colleagues, I laminated and highlighted the fraud policy our managers wished us to enforce and the majority of Captains were understanding. It is true I chuckled at a couple of reactions that I will not describe on a public forum, which I believe is more appropriate than running to the bullying and harassment police at every perceived slight.
You decry BASSA for making things too personal but I believe this is a two way street, not at board or management level but lower down the food chain. I hold my hands up to being a part of the downward spiral of relations, we are employed because we posses character traits such as passion so don’t be surprised when something makes us mad we defend ourselves with mad passion.
Recent posts on PPRuNe portray those who took strike action as herds of thugs roaming the savannah of the CRC brandishing yellow pens as weapons to bully and intimidate those who went to work. I have searched the CRC for evidence of these frightening gangs but could not find them – perhaps being winter they have gone into hibernation?
Not only do I believe this is illegal, rather than helping the Company it risks creating a destructive civil war. Every time I think I have made headway and CRM is improving there are more suspensions, the latest one being Andrea Molton for collecting donations for Santascrew. Andrea’s heart is as big as her mouth and she kindly took to raising funds to give the children of the sacked and suspended a good Christmas. (Incidentally, this suspension and Santascrew website is now featured on Hardeep Kohli Singh’s FacePPRuNe page and I believe the donations have now topped 10K.)
If we are not to implode the mad merry go round has to stop, the perception that the vocal are being targeted is incensing the Cabin Crew community and risks any chance of a peace settlement. Dexters Laboratory is bang on about the lack of dialogue and input from members such as myself has contributed to the length and bitterness of this dispute. I am hopeful that with Len and Keith Williams taking their respective driving seats we have the chance of a fresh start. However if the draconian suspensions of the vocal continues then I fear things will simmer over before they even have the chance to sit down together.
Yes, bullying is unacceptable and the victims need to report it but I believe reporting every slight or difference of opinion ties up management resources, detracts from the suffering of real victims and risks plunging us into a serious civil war. This not only threatens CRM but our Company and its future.
I believe that when issues require suspensions then BOTH parties must be suspended. This will ensure the petty squabbles stop and our managers can deal with the issue quickly and fairly.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
Edited: To change font and size for readability.
I have never been offloaded as, like many of my colleagues, I laminated and highlighted the fraud policy our managers wished us to enforce and the majority of Captains were understanding. It is true I chuckled at a couple of reactions that I will not describe on a public forum, which I believe is more appropriate than running to the bullying and harassment police at every perceived slight.
You decry BASSA for making things too personal but I believe this is a two way street, not at board or management level but lower down the food chain. I hold my hands up to being a part of the downward spiral of relations, we are employed because we posses character traits such as passion so don’t be surprised when something makes us mad we defend ourselves with mad passion.
Recent posts on PPRuNe portray those who took strike action as herds of thugs roaming the savannah of the CRC brandishing yellow pens as weapons to bully and intimidate those who went to work. I have searched the CRC for evidence of these frightening gangs but could not find them – perhaps being winter they have gone into hibernation?
Not only do I believe this is illegal, rather than helping the Company it risks creating a destructive civil war. Every time I think I have made headway and CRM is improving there are more suspensions, the latest one being Andrea Molton for collecting donations for Santascrew. Andrea’s heart is as big as her mouth and she kindly took to raising funds to give the children of the sacked and suspended a good Christmas. (Incidentally, this suspension and Santascrew website is now featured on Hardeep Kohli Singh’s FacePPRuNe page and I believe the donations have now topped 10K.)
If we are not to implode the mad merry go round has to stop, the perception that the vocal are being targeted is incensing the Cabin Crew community and risks any chance of a peace settlement. Dexters Laboratory is bang on about the lack of dialogue and input from members such as myself has contributed to the length and bitterness of this dispute. I am hopeful that with Len and Keith Williams taking their respective driving seats we have the chance of a fresh start. However if the draconian suspensions of the vocal continues then I fear things will simmer over before they even have the chance to sit down together.
Yes, bullying is unacceptable and the victims need to report it but I believe reporting every slight or difference of opinion ties up management resources, detracts from the suffering of real victims and risks plunging us into a serious civil war. This not only threatens CRM but our Company and its future.
I believe that when issues require suspensions then BOTH parties must be suspended. This will ensure the petty squabbles stop and our managers can deal with the issue quickly and fairly.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
Edited: To change font and size for readability.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe that when issues require suspensions then BOTH parties must be suspended
eg If you accused someone of raping you you wouldn't expect to be arrested too, would you?
BASSA for making things too personal but I believe this is a two way street
I laminated and highlighted the fraud policy our managers wished us to enforce
By trying to make life intolerable for crew still in possession of ST and by crusading to try and erode capt's authority you ended up losing authority yourselves.
I believe one thing our strike did achieve is ensuring the rest of our T&Cs remain untouched.
Certainly taken as a whole it has surely been a disaster for current crew.
Edit 2: The standard font for PPRuNe boards is Verdana 2. It has been used for over 14 years. Please avoid using other styles, and therefore changing, the norm. As my colleague says - it is difficult to read.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Age: 60
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
British Airways rejects Unite's 'culture of fear' claim
British Airways defended its determination to tackle bullying and harassment in the workplace today (November 25) after the Unite trade union accused the airline of operating a 'culture of fear'.
The airline rejected claims of a campaign to bully union representatives and cabin crew who went on strike.
In a statement, BA said: "As a responsible company we do not tolerate the bullying or harassment of any of our colleagues. We have an established bullying and harassment policy that is consistent across the airline. Our established disciplinary process has been in place for many years and has been agreed with all our recognised trade unions, including Unite.
"We have conducted a number of disciplinary investigations into allegations of bullying and harassment relating to the ongoing industrial dispute. These involve a tiny minority of our employees.
"The vast majority of these investigations were into complaints that employees tried to intimidate or threaten colleagues who wanted to work during cabin crew strikes, or who wished to volunteer to work as cabin crew during strike periods, into not doing so."
The airline said these had resulted in a range of outcomes from no case to answer, to dismissal for gross misconduct.
"All these investigations have been conducted in response to incidents of alleged bullying, harassment or other intimidating behaviour," it said.
Commenting on remarks by the newly appointed Unite general secretary on the possibility of further strike action by cabin crew, the airline reassured customers that it would keep the flag flying. In the event of further strikes, the airline aims to operate 100 per cent of our Heathrow longhaul operation and the majority of our shorthaul flights at Heathrow.
A spokesperson for the airline said: "Unite said last month that the proposals we put forward after prolonged discussions, assisted by the TUC and ACAS, would be recommended as the best available through negotiation.
"We continue to believe that these proposals address all cabin crew's concerns and represent a fair resolution of this dispute."
British Airways defended its determination to tackle bullying and harassment in the workplace today (November 25) after the Unite trade union accused the airline of operating a 'culture of fear'.
The airline rejected claims of a campaign to bully union representatives and cabin crew who went on strike.
In a statement, BA said: "As a responsible company we do not tolerate the bullying or harassment of any of our colleagues. We have an established bullying and harassment policy that is consistent across the airline. Our established disciplinary process has been in place for many years and has been agreed with all our recognised trade unions, including Unite.
"We have conducted a number of disciplinary investigations into allegations of bullying and harassment relating to the ongoing industrial dispute. These involve a tiny minority of our employees.
"The vast majority of these investigations were into complaints that employees tried to intimidate or threaten colleagues who wanted to work during cabin crew strikes, or who wished to volunteer to work as cabin crew during strike periods, into not doing so."
The airline said these had resulted in a range of outcomes from no case to answer, to dismissal for gross misconduct.
"All these investigations have been conducted in response to incidents of alleged bullying, harassment or other intimidating behaviour," it said.
Commenting on remarks by the newly appointed Unite general secretary on the possibility of further strike action by cabin crew, the airline reassured customers that it would keep the flag flying. In the event of further strikes, the airline aims to operate 100 per cent of our Heathrow longhaul operation and the majority of our shorthaul flights at Heathrow.
A spokesperson for the airline said: "Unite said last month that the proposals we put forward after prolonged discussions, assisted by the TUC and ACAS, would be recommended as the best available through negotiation.
"We continue to believe that these proposals address all cabin crew's concerns and represent a fair resolution of this dispute."
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eddie thank you for your reply. I for one have worked for the company for some 25years for all of those years you were able to take your family with you on staff travel if you worked over christmas..This year is different.. if you have lost your staff travel because you took part in industrial action.. This is not alowed you are not alowed to discriminate against anyone that took part in IA.
This job takes you away from your family we know that happens but a system has been in place for years that helped crew.. contractul or not perhaps the courts could decide because this has been the case for years.
This job takes you away from your family we know that happens but a system has been in place for years that helped crew.. contractul or not perhaps the courts could decide because this has been the case for years.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: leafy suburbs
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave3
You know the situation with staff travel and strikers, they were "notified" well in advance that if they went on strike, staff travel would be withdrawn permanently. However the latest deal that was on the table, and I think it still is, staff travel is offered back,
WRT christmas staff travel and free tickets for crew travelling over christmas, the chickens are coming home to roost. The bravado statements that loss of staff travel was no big deal, now changes to it being unfair that their family/partners cannot travel as they had been on strike. Again a classic example of short sightedness which has been apparent all through this dispute. It seems the striking crew had forgotten about christmas as it was 9 months or so away from when the strikes started.
You know the situation with staff travel and strikers, they were "notified" well in advance that if they went on strike, staff travel would be withdrawn permanently. However the latest deal that was on the table, and I think it still is, staff travel is offered back,
WRT christmas staff travel and free tickets for crew travelling over christmas, the chickens are coming home to roost. The bravado statements that loss of staff travel was no big deal, now changes to it being unfair that their family/partners cannot travel as they had been on strike. Again a classic example of short sightedness which has been apparent all through this dispute. It seems the striking crew had forgotten about christmas as it was 9 months or so away from when the strikes started.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crew can still take family away with them at Christmas as the tickets are not personal travel but duty travel. However they will find that their date of joining for onload purposes is the 'new' staff travel joining date, which ensures that those who have backed BA have their loyalty to the company recognised. Whether strikers choose to avail themselves of these tickets is another matter.
This year is different.. if you have lost your staff travel because you took part in industrial action..
This is not alowed you are not alowed to discriminate against anyone that took part in IA.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: london
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What difference one year makes, last year the big debate was how to disrupt thousand of flights, holidays, family reunions and inflict as much financial damage to ones employer and this year the same individuals are scrambling to get seats for their loved ones on a free jolly with the compliments of the same employer that they so much hate and still want to damage and punish.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think they are scrambling to get seats for loved ones. All crew can still get standby tickets for their loved ones because basic standby tickets were returned to all staff that striked.
A lot I think have decided not to volunteer for Christmas trips however and this will cause a big problem for BA. I don't believe it is being done on purpose by crew, it is just a consequence of everything that has gone on but as a result of people not requesting to be away many will get rostered trips that they don't want and that will include crew that never usually choose to be away.This will end up with a huge amount of crew going sick at Christmas, which already happens anyway, but this year it will be a very large number!
I have a feeling that BA will ask the VCCs to volunteer to be away at Christmas because I really do believe this will be a huge problem this year. BA are already aware of it because the Christmas trip requests are way down on previous years.
Whether you agree with the strike or don't, and I have always not agreed with it, there are a lot of crew out there that feel unwanted and not valued by their employer and this actually includes many that did not strike. So it will be hardly surprising if some choose Christmas to go sick!!
A lot I think have decided not to volunteer for Christmas trips however and this will cause a big problem for BA. I don't believe it is being done on purpose by crew, it is just a consequence of everything that has gone on but as a result of people not requesting to be away many will get rostered trips that they don't want and that will include crew that never usually choose to be away.This will end up with a huge amount of crew going sick at Christmas, which already happens anyway, but this year it will be a very large number!
I have a feeling that BA will ask the VCCs to volunteer to be away at Christmas because I really do believe this will be a huge problem this year. BA are already aware of it because the Christmas trip requests are way down on previous years.
Whether you agree with the strike or don't, and I have always not agreed with it, there are a lot of crew out there that feel unwanted and not valued by their employer and this actually includes many that did not strike. So it will be hardly surprising if some choose Christmas to go sick!!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please could someone explain the difference between DH refusing to work and crew electing to be "sick" for Christmas, because they don't fancy working? I suspect they may lay themselves open to the same fate.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DH did not go sick. He 'no showed' on trips because he thought he should have been de-rostered for union duties.
I am not suggesting that people go sick at Christmas but every year a few crew do and of course every year there are genuine people who are sick. Flu and bad colds are always very prevalent in the middle of winter and crew are very susceptible to catching these because of the nature of our job mixing with hundreds of people every day.
It is and always has been impossible for BA to tell the difference between those genuinely sick and those pulling a fast one.
I am not suggesting that people go sick at Christmas but every year a few crew do and of course every year there are genuine people who are sick. Flu and bad colds are always very prevalent in the middle of winter and crew are very susceptible to catching these because of the nature of our job mixing with hundreds of people every day.
It is and always has been impossible for BA to tell the difference between those genuinely sick and those pulling a fast one.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One is easily provable; DH himself providing the evidence, the other is not. People do get sick at any time remember. Let’s wait and see if the sickness level is actually higher than usual before we start hanging CC as a group I think.
I know my own partner felt very rough during the last strike period but felt compelled to report where she normally perhaps would not have done so, and worked the duty with a stinking cold as a result. Indeed if she had two broken legs in plaster I’d have driven her to work myself and let her be sent away before she called in as unwell for fear of getting caught up in the silliness. Once again the actions of the few making things worse for the many perhaps?
I know my own partner felt very rough during the last strike period but felt compelled to report where she normally perhaps would not have done so, and worked the duty with a stinking cold as a result. Indeed if she had two broken legs in plaster I’d have driven her to work myself and let her be sent away before she called in as unwell for fear of getting caught up in the silliness. Once again the actions of the few making things worse for the many perhaps?
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Totally agree with you Snas.
I would have dragged myself in because I would not have wanted to be marked down as a striker.
I also agree that the vast majority of cabin crew will come in and do their rostered duty.
I have also been told that more crew are being rostered on standby this year which is a direct result of BA being nervous about sickness.
I just know from my experience out on line that many crew, strikers and non-strikers alike, feel unwanted by BA and it is sad. Just hope it all gets sorted out soon. Having said that though I see nothing but professionalism from all my crew and it would be impossible for a passenger to tell if someone was a striker or a non striker, all are performing brilliantly on my flights. It is just a feeling inside of us of not being wanted anymore and it is hard for me to explain it. I expect as your wife flies you understand what I mean.
I would have dragged myself in because I would not have wanted to be marked down as a striker.
I also agree that the vast majority of cabin crew will come in and do their rostered duty.
I have also been told that more crew are being rostered on standby this year which is a direct result of BA being nervous about sickness.
I just know from my experience out on line that many crew, strikers and non-strikers alike, feel unwanted by BA and it is sad. Just hope it all gets sorted out soon. Having said that though I see nothing but professionalism from all my crew and it would be impossible for a passenger to tell if someone was a striker or a non striker, all are performing brilliantly on my flights. It is just a feeling inside of us of not being wanted anymore and it is hard for me to explain it. I expect as your wife flies you understand what I mean.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
7 Posts
Betty Girl.
I admire your perseverence on this site. I gave up, everything you write will be nit-picked and challenged by one or another of a select group of individuals, BA pilots and managers, who never seem to be either flying or managing. Indeed, despite what may be written in some profiles, I question just how many are actually BA pilots. They are on here ready with an instant challenge most hours of the day, yet seldom frequent pilot orientated threads on this professional pilot site.
I am in total agreement though, that whether a crew member was a striker or not does not matter a jot when they get onboard and interact with our passengers. And there have been changes to this years staff travel procedures for Xmas duty, which may have an impact upon an individuals decisions.
I admire your perseverence on this site. I gave up, everything you write will be nit-picked and challenged by one or another of a select group of individuals, BA pilots and managers, who never seem to be either flying or managing. Indeed, despite what may be written in some profiles, I question just how many are actually BA pilots. They are on here ready with an instant challenge most hours of the day, yet seldom frequent pilot orientated threads on this professional pilot site.
I am in total agreement though, that whether a crew member was a striker or not does not matter a jot when they get onboard and interact with our passengers. And there have been changes to this years staff travel procedures for Xmas duty, which may have an impact upon an individuals decisions.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for that pc767,
My manager is also a VCC and she too is worried that BA may ask her to work at Christmas. She works Mon to Fri 9-5 and really does not want to be away. I hope she gets to be a home because she is a great manager and I like her very much.
I hope that all crew get to be where they would like to be whether that be away, on a trip or at home with their family.
My manager is also a VCC and she too is worried that BA may ask her to work at Christmas. She works Mon to Fri 9-5 and really does not want to be away. I hope she gets to be a home because she is a great manager and I like her very much.
I hope that all crew get to be where they would like to be whether that be away, on a trip or at home with their family.