British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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That's British Airways for you. It doesn't matter what you do, they won't acknowledge it. If there are any crew who might think that working during the strike would be to their advantage for any future promotion opportunities should really think again.
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Eddy,
I was not meaning to disrespect you.
I agree that waiting and waiting for promotion is frustrating but at the same time the only fair way to it and this process does have its faults is the interview or formal chit chat. You have to use every tool at your disposal to maximise your chances to get and suceed at that interview. Assuming the opportunity comes along.
I disagree with alot of the points MissM has made in previous posts but she/he is right when stating that you get no credit from strike breaking other than a pat on the back and I for one do not need that.
I was not meaning to disrespect you.
I agree that waiting and waiting for promotion is frustrating but at the same time the only fair way to it and this process does have its faults is the interview or formal chit chat. You have to use every tool at your disposal to maximise your chances to get and suceed at that interview. Assuming the opportunity comes along.
I disagree with alot of the points MissM has made in previous posts but she/he is right when stating that you get no credit from strike breaking other than a pat on the back and I for one do not need that.
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Originally Posted by Chesh1
Your feelings are akin to mine back in my world wide days when less senior crew worked up with no willingness to take repsonsibility and ultimately I would take on the responsibility because its just how I roll when on duty.
I can respect that viewpoint but to down tools is taking an operational process a bit personal don't you think?
I can respect that viewpoint but to down tools is taking an operational process a bit personal don't you think?
If the company said to me "work this flight or you're on strike", I'd work. No doubt in my mind. But prior to that I'd ask to go on a different trip to see if they could accommodate my request.
It's a principle thing..... I've thrown a lot of what I thought I believed out the window in order to support the company during the strikes but this is one thing I'll try to hold on to.
Originally Posted by Chesh1
Eddy,
I was not meaning to disrespect you.
I agree that waiting and waiting for promotion is frustrating but at the same time the only fair way to it and this process does have its faults is the interview or formal chit chat. You have to use every tool at your disposal to maximise your chances to get and suceed at that interview. Assuming the opportunity comes along.
I disagree with alot of the points MissM has made in previous posts but she/he is right when stating that you get no credit from strike breaking other than a pat on the back and I for one do not need that.
I was not meaning to disrespect you.
I agree that waiting and waiting for promotion is frustrating but at the same time the only fair way to it and this process does have its faults is the interview or formal chit chat. You have to use every tool at your disposal to maximise your chances to get and suceed at that interview. Assuming the opportunity comes along.
I disagree with alot of the points MissM has made in previous posts but she/he is right when stating that you get no credit from strike breaking other than a pat on the back and I for one do not need that.
I agree that we have a tried and tested process in place at the moment and I also agree that it's flawed like f*ckery! But that's the system and I want to gain promotion by following said process.
But being able to use an example of having worked up in an interview question is undoubtedly going to give one an advantage - no matter how small.
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great!
we all agree!
In an interview you can come across better how you supported the purser role by taking on responsibility and showing willingness to help. Plenty of pursers in worldwide would love to reward willing crew by delegating responsibility and helping crew understand the key specifics of the job (in other words help in your application and interview preparation.)
I agree that we have a tried and tested process in place at the moment and I also agree that it's flawed like f*ckery! But that's the system and I want to gain promotion by following said process.
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NS68
I am not advocating sacking any crew - hope it does comes across as that. Although I do not genuinely know what we as a company are going to do with all the bitterness this has created - both towards BA management and fellow employees.
I truly cannot see this working out well in a customer service industry.
I am simply saying that many strikers seem to forget that they have done untold damage to our company, financially and in reputation.
In the quest to assert that their strike is legal, the justification for it seem to have got lost, and they feel that BA should not be able to recover any costs for this loss.
I admire you for sticking to your vote. But as you seem to be recognising that your vote was based on certain misrepresentations, does that vote do you justice?
I am not advocating sacking any crew - hope it does comes across as that. Although I do not genuinely know what we as a company are going to do with all the bitterness this has created - both towards BA management and fellow employees.
I truly cannot see this working out well in a customer service industry.
I am simply saying that many strikers seem to forget that they have done untold damage to our company, financially and in reputation.
In the quest to assert that their strike is legal, the justification for it seem to have got lost, and they feel that BA should not be able to recover any costs for this loss.
I admire you for sticking to your vote. But as you seem to be recognising that your vote was based on certain misrepresentations, does that vote do you justice?
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to NEVERMIND
It does and it doesn't..It does because I am still not convinced about the New fleet being a complete different entity to us..I really think that that could be very damaging. We will never meet them,we will never fly with them..and they will be on complete different conditions but same base..I find this impossible to believe.At the moment,we do have old and new contracts but we enjoy the same agreements otherwise and it works well in my opinion.
I guess this is not a big problem for older crew that are planning to leave in the next five years,but for me this was a big issue and I decided to believe our union could negotiate differently..but it didn't happen!(and the blame goes to our management as well for not wanting to review that either)
it doesn't do my vote justice,because I have now understood that there will be a New Fleet no matter what-no matter how many strikes are going to be called-hence my post about voting differently next time round.
Just another point,when people posts refer to people going on strike as majorly against the company..I am far from it, what I felt the strike was about was retaining what we have, and I know the company is telling us we will for as long as they can but as the new fleet expands we know what the process will be..It is not bassa/unite that tells me,we all know.. I am not sure about moving in 6/7 years to a new contract where my seniority will be wiped off and the pay is what is rumoured to be.
What do you think?
But as you seem to be recognising that your vote was based on certain misrepresentations, does that vote do you justice?
I guess this is not a big problem for older crew that are planning to leave in the next five years,but for me this was a big issue and I decided to believe our union could negotiate differently..but it didn't happen!(and the blame goes to our management as well for not wanting to review that either)
it doesn't do my vote justice,because I have now understood that there will be a New Fleet no matter what-no matter how many strikes are going to be called-hence my post about voting differently next time round.
Just another point,when people posts refer to people going on strike as majorly against the company..I am far from it, what I felt the strike was about was retaining what we have, and I know the company is telling us we will for as long as they can but as the new fleet expands we know what the process will be..It is not bassa/unite that tells me,we all know.. I am not sure about moving in 6/7 years to a new contract where my seniority will be wiped off and the pay is what is rumoured to be.
What do you think?
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Miss M
That's British Airways for you. It doesn't matter what you do, they won't acknowledge it. If there are any crew who might think that working during the strike would be to their advantage for any future promotion opportunities should really think again.
Another day at BFC tomorrow!
Although I am airline staff, I am lucky enough to always be able to pay for my own tickets using BA.com, Virgin.com etc so I really do have a choice. If the negative attitude that BASSA members seem to show to BA is typical, please stay at Bedfont and let those covering your duties, whether they be non-union, VCC, temps, strike-breakers, continue because they are offering a better service to the customer.
Flight 15APR World Traveller LH to LHR. Steward said 3 words entire flight. "Chicken?", "Beef?" and "Drink?". He was not seen again after meal service until breakfast service. When I complained to CSD, told he was an unhappy BASSA member and it was noted.
Flight 21APR Club World LHR LH. Crew were excellent and did everything possible to get rid of stench from S/Board toilet leaking under 17A/B where I was seated. We ended up chatting in galley including Purser (didn't see a CSD) and having a great time.
I have worked with BA in the past and numerous airlines world wide and BA currently has the strongest management team it has ever had. In fact, one of the best in the world.
Do yourselves a favour and support them instead of fighting them.
That's British Airways for you. It doesn't matter what you do, they won't acknowledge it. If there are any crew who might think that working during the strike would be to their advantage for any future promotion opportunities should really think again.
Another day at BFC tomorrow!
Although I am airline staff, I am lucky enough to always be able to pay for my own tickets using BA.com, Virgin.com etc so I really do have a choice. If the negative attitude that BASSA members seem to show to BA is typical, please stay at Bedfont and let those covering your duties, whether they be non-union, VCC, temps, strike-breakers, continue because they are offering a better service to the customer.
Flight 15APR World Traveller LH to LHR. Steward said 3 words entire flight. "Chicken?", "Beef?" and "Drink?". He was not seen again after meal service until breakfast service. When I complained to CSD, told he was an unhappy BASSA member and it was noted.
Flight 21APR Club World LHR LH. Crew were excellent and did everything possible to get rid of stench from S/Board toilet leaking under 17A/B where I was seated. We ended up chatting in galley including Purser (didn't see a CSD) and having a great time.
I have worked with BA in the past and numerous airlines world wide and BA currently has the strongest management team it has ever had. In fact, one of the best in the world.
Do yourselves a favour and support them instead of fighting them.
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NS68
You echo alot of the fears of crew that I speak to.
You either trust BASSA, BA or your feelings and predictions on how things will turn out.
The real truth is not to be on the obituaries board. Then you are out of options.
No disrespect to those in the next world. Don't worry be happy!
You either trust BASSA, BA or your feelings and predictions on how things will turn out.
The real truth is not to be on the obituaries board. Then you are out of options.
No disrespect to those in the next world. Don't worry be happy!
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As someone who also would like to progress in the future I agree with Eddy - whilst we are not expecting to get promotion based because we didn't strike it all depends on whether you deemed suitable for the role or not. You cannot expect them to say ''you went to work here's the CSD badge'' but it would be nice to be given the oppurtunity to ''work up'' for the experience! So that when it comes to an oppurtunity to apply you can use this experience which would be beneficial.
Off topic slightly - maybe they should do a programme where you can ''work up'' and get assessed by the CSD/PSR based on the leadership qualities which can go towards an application. I know crew often used to work up to be assessed in the past - but can you imagine nowadays - some crew would accuse you of wanting to go to New Fleet. Whether or not you wanted to or not!
But I also see what people are saying with regards to they didn't know who would work or not. But now they know who did come up maybe they could do it now?
Off topic slightly - maybe they should do a programme where you can ''work up'' and get assessed by the CSD/PSR based on the leadership qualities which can go towards an application. I know crew often used to work up to be assessed in the past - but can you imagine nowadays - some crew would accuse you of wanting to go to New Fleet. Whether or not you wanted to or not!
But I also see what people are saying with regards to they didn't know who would work or not. But now they know who did come up maybe they could do it now?
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when does a strike become illegal?
Can anyone make clear when a strike becomes unlawful? is it correct to say that BASSA cannot call for another strike on the same matter?
Moreover, don't you think that WW is following a similar path to the one he set up in Aer Lingus where he eventually locked out the strikers and didn't let them back into the job unless they signed a new contract?
Moreover, don't you think that WW is following a similar path to the one he set up in Aer Lingus where he eventually locked out the strikers and didn't let them back into the job unless they signed a new contract?
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MissM
Another day at BFC tomorrow!
Why on earth do you work for this Airline? Your posts are so anti BA, I wonder what it would take for you to be content on returning to work. If your're hoping for the seventies style 'job for life mate', it aint gonna happen!
I, as a ground staff member (like most, blo0dy angry too), have never, will never have any guarantees whatsoever.
Why should you continue to be different and so belligerant?
Why on earth do you work for this Airline? Your posts are so anti BA, I wonder what it would take for you to be content on returning to work. If your're hoping for the seventies style 'job for life mate', it aint gonna happen!
I, as a ground staff member (like most, blo0dy angry too), have never, will never have any guarantees whatsoever.
Why should you continue to be different and so belligerant?
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ns68 - it doesn't do my vote justice,because I have now understood that there will be a New Fleet no matter what-no matter how many strikes are going to be called-hence my post about voting differently next time round.
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ICCM
Eddy
I have only experienced one briefing where the CSD was on strike, a purser volunteered to work up and the VCC were both stood down. I got the impression that anyone who volunteered would certainly be given additional responsibility. The manager who came into the briefing room was certainly very pleased that someone had volunteered to ""stand up to the plate" and saved them from having to "nominate" a SCCM.
I guess when it comes to nominating a SCCM it is probably easier to nominate a VCC who has done the course and you know would be willing, rather than pick a crew member who may want to be at BFC but values their staff travel.
I suggest if you find yourself in this situation just volunteer explaining how you would value the experience.
And for additional info the flight went with 9 crew not the minimum 8 as there were plenty of people reporting!!
I have only experienced one briefing where the CSD was on strike, a purser volunteered to work up and the VCC were both stood down. I got the impression that anyone who volunteered would certainly be given additional responsibility. The manager who came into the briefing room was certainly very pleased that someone had volunteered to ""stand up to the plate" and saved them from having to "nominate" a SCCM.
I guess when it comes to nominating a SCCM it is probably easier to nominate a VCC who has done the course and you know would be willing, rather than pick a crew member who may want to be at BFC but values their staff travel.
I suggest if you find yourself in this situation just volunteer explaining how you would value the experience.
And for additional info the flight went with 9 crew not the minimum 8 as there were plenty of people reporting!!
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There is nothing to say that another group will not also choose militant reps. The destruction of one union leaves a void which will be filled.
It's telling that there's an automatic assumption that the "replacement" will be a model of union diplomacy. Who's to say, after all BASSA is the child of the membership itself.
You may not have heard,
but there is a new Council forming - the Professional Cabin Crew Council. We are forming precisely because of that reason. We utterly reject the stance Unite/BASSA has taken. We utterly reject the behaviour that Unite/BASSA has demonstrated. We are appalled at the damage that Unite/BASSA is doing to our community, our company and our livelihoods.Here at the Professional Cabin Crew Council we are all united in our belief that there is a better way to do this. A professional way to conduct business that is in the interests of the crew community, the wider community and our company.
We are advocating a change to employee relations within BA and we are determined to achieve it. The ever-increasing numbers of people joining us, coupled with the strength of feeling on the forum on our website (www.mypccc.co.uk) would also indicate that we are in line to achieve it.
So, you're right there is definitely a void to be filled, and the PCCC is stepping up to the plate. But things will be very different. Our community is crying out for it.
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Yet more flights being added to the flying program this morning 2 jumbos so far
Seems the strike is not working well, and the company know it, Derek Simpson admitted this morning that Willy won't meet him until after the next week!
Interestingly BASSA have changed tact yet again, admitting that they will be unable to stop the introduction of new fleet! Quite an admission, the strike is now about gaining the best guarantees for existing workers.
If BASSA keep changing their minds about what this strike is about they will have nothing to re ballot for next time around
Seems the strike is not working well, and the company know it, Derek Simpson admitted this morning that Willy won't meet him until after the next week!
Interestingly BASSA have changed tact yet again, admitting that they will be unable to stop the introduction of new fleet! Quite an admission, the strike is now about gaining the best guarantees for existing workers.
If BASSA keep changing their minds about what this strike is about they will have nothing to re ballot for next time around
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On arrival to CRC early this morning, I was surprised to see three crew members who I had not expected to see working during the strike at all. The first was a CSD who was a 'hard core BASSA member who was adamant about striking.
The second was a colleague who I had flown with several times in the past who had also voted yes but decided to work instead.
The third crew member shocked me as he had been on the pickets throughout the strikes but decided 'he'd had enough of BASSA' which are his exact words. He also mentioned about being given a hard time by the strikers.
The operation is definitely improving because on my return from my nightstop from a destination in Europe tomorrow, I will be operating a link service or doing what is known as a two day four sector trip. This is a good sign of a normal operation especially when trips have started to be linked making better use of available resources.
I'm BA cabin crew who's proud to cross the picket line.
The second was a colleague who I had flown with several times in the past who had also voted yes but decided to work instead.
The third crew member shocked me as he had been on the pickets throughout the strikes but decided 'he'd had enough of BASSA' which are his exact words. He also mentioned about being given a hard time by the strikers.
The operation is definitely improving because on my return from my nightstop from a destination in Europe tomorrow, I will be operating a link service or doing what is known as a two day four sector trip. This is a good sign of a normal operation especially when trips have started to be linked making better use of available resources.
I'm BA cabin crew who's proud to cross the picket line.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 30th May 2010 at 11:35. Reason: Spelling!
BA has lost over 500 000 000 pounds in the last year. It isn't government supported anymore so where is all the money supposed to come from ?
Obviously the current business model isn't working and major changes are needed for the company to survive.
Look at the competition now compared to twenty years ago. For short flights go on a low cost, for long haul go on middle eastern or asian airlines with their hub and spoke systems. These operators started relatively recently and aren't carrying decades of baggage from a state supported, regulated, monopoly, union dominated past. Most are highly profitable or have oil money behind them.
A passenger wanting to go from Glasgow to Perth Australia can get on Emirates and have an easy one stop through Dubai getting to Australia quicker and easier than BA can manage with transfers in Heathrow and Singapore.
For a weekend in Europe it's hard to justify the cost of full service airlines for a three hour flight when low cost gets you there just as well and you have more spending money at the other end.
With the internet and travel search engines it's easy to find the best deals and compare, then book online. How often do BA top the list on sites such as fly.com ?
Which would you prefer, a shake up in pay and conditions or no job ? In Australia, Ansett wouldn't move into the twentieth century and are now a memory. Swiss Air and Sabena went broke, how many US airlines from the 1970s are still with us today ?
You don't have alot of sympathy from the public, most of which live in the real world without 5* hotels and day dream allowances. You're further alienating your customers by disrupting their travel plans, many of them won't be back after flying with the competition. Little chance of a strike at Emirates disrupting anyones summer holiday, seen how well Singapore Airlines treat their passengers ?
Get back to work and sort out with the management what needs to be done for the companys SURVIVAL. If it goes under how many of you realistically expect to obtain another job with similar conditions. You'll be lucky to be taken on by your competitors on a lot less than BA are offering.
Obviously the current business model isn't working and major changes are needed for the company to survive.
Look at the competition now compared to twenty years ago. For short flights go on a low cost, for long haul go on middle eastern or asian airlines with their hub and spoke systems. These operators started relatively recently and aren't carrying decades of baggage from a state supported, regulated, monopoly, union dominated past. Most are highly profitable or have oil money behind them.
A passenger wanting to go from Glasgow to Perth Australia can get on Emirates and have an easy one stop through Dubai getting to Australia quicker and easier than BA can manage with transfers in Heathrow and Singapore.
For a weekend in Europe it's hard to justify the cost of full service airlines for a three hour flight when low cost gets you there just as well and you have more spending money at the other end.
With the internet and travel search engines it's easy to find the best deals and compare, then book online. How often do BA top the list on sites such as fly.com ?
Which would you prefer, a shake up in pay and conditions or no job ? In Australia, Ansett wouldn't move into the twentieth century and are now a memory. Swiss Air and Sabena went broke, how many US airlines from the 1970s are still with us today ?
You don't have alot of sympathy from the public, most of which live in the real world without 5* hotels and day dream allowances. You're further alienating your customers by disrupting their travel plans, many of them won't be back after flying with the competition. Little chance of a strike at Emirates disrupting anyones summer holiday, seen how well Singapore Airlines treat their passengers ?
Get back to work and sort out with the management what needs to be done for the companys SURVIVAL. If it goes under how many of you realistically expect to obtain another job with similar conditions. You'll be lucky to be taken on by your competitors on a lot less than BA are offering.
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Metro Man, your post is spot on. In my time in the industry I have also worked for one of the US stars of the 1970s (went bust) and one of the Gulf hub and spoke carriers (money no object), so I have witnessed first hand what you speak of.
This is 2010 is not 1975!!
This is 2010 is not 1975!!
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Tiramisu, I am on a 2 day 4 sector, fco on a 767 tonight... hopefully I will see you...
I was impressed to read in ba news yesterday, that williw hs accepted to initially give st back to commuters if unite had called off the strike, and when the deal has been implemented to return it to all... Unite has immediately rejected this. Do the commuters know that, or they read only what comes typed in orange??? (and if they know, did they have a chance to have a say???) this is what pisses me off... that a normal union will listen to their members and act accordingly... Bassa though, dictates to their members what they should do... how stupid...and willie has said many times "say to your union to..." yeah right... Here they do what the union tells them. Hope bassa will soon ask them to resign from ba... no doubt they will do it!
I was impressed to read in ba news yesterday, that williw hs accepted to initially give st back to commuters if unite had called off the strike, and when the deal has been implemented to return it to all... Unite has immediately rejected this. Do the commuters know that, or they read only what comes typed in orange??? (and if they know, did they have a chance to have a say???) this is what pisses me off... that a normal union will listen to their members and act accordingly... Bassa though, dictates to their members what they should do... how stupid...and willie has said many times "say to your union to..." yeah right... Here they do what the union tells them. Hope bassa will soon ask them to resign from ba... no doubt they will do it!