British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[Meal Chucker]

Originally Posted by MissM

I should hope that you will be first ones asking for a transfer and a new contract?

I'm interested in this statement - I've read this numerous times on CF and BF that us 'scabs' should be forced onto the new fleet contracts.

Why should we be forced or volunteer for this contract?

I crossed the picket line because Bassa failed to protect me against the threat of New Fleet, in part by refusing to negotiate. I honestly believe the Bassa reps are only interested in protecting LHR WW CSD's, at the expense of all others.

Bassa's actions have hastened the introduction of new fleet, so in my opinion it is the strikers that should be forced onto New Fleet contracts.

[Choccybox]

Hey y'all,

I'm new to posting on here, but have been following this thread for a while and it all makes interesting reading!

Miss M

When BASSA offered BA the millions in savings, did they tell you that part of this deal was a pay cut which included LGW crew having to take this also in order to fund the cost savings at LHR?
Why should the LGW crew, who are working very well with reduced crew and on the hourly rate, be forced to take a pay cut in order to cost save at LHR.......haven't they cut back enough down there?


I was in the CRC on the 3rd day of the 1st wave of strikes back in March, when the question was asked of Willie Walsh(along with lots of other questions because the CRC was packed with working crew!) " Why did you reject the offer put on the table from BASSA?"
He replied " Because BASSA wanted to introduce a pay cut across the board, including LGW, and as they were already working to the new crew complements, and on the hourly rate, I didn't think it was fair that they should take that pay cut to fund the cost savings at LHR"

[essessdeedee]

People do exceptional things in exceptional circumstances and I feel, during these ill thought out strikes, these are exceptional circumstances.

Wirbelsturm,

Everyone at BA is fearful for their jobs.... Why do you think that there are still queues of Volunteers waiting for their courses???

[BABOBO]

MissM,

With the utmost respect......, I sometimes really wonder if you actually read and digest the answers to your posts??? It seems to me that a lot of your replies keep repeating the same old and when somebody on here answers your post with reasonable arguments and facts, you still keep repeating yourself and denying the truth. It might be actually a good idea if you would actually 'listen' and think about the points made on here and reflect on the debate.

As for your comment about crew who crossed the picket line should be 'requesting' to be transferred onto New Fleet...... what is that all about? Crew (like myself) who crossed the picket line stood up for their believes, just like you did. The reasons for not going on strike have been explained on this forum from many different angels by several people with different reasons and arguments. I would suggest you start actually 'thinking and processing' what you read on here...... it might help your argument for a start!!!

This is not an attack on you personally!!! As I said, everybody needs to do what he/she thinks is wright. I just hope this post contributes to open your mind set to different POV's which are actually factual and help you seperate the facts from the BASSA spin.

[VSOP Fables]

Overtime??

While we're on the subject of overtime I'd like to put to rest a popular misconception. Like BAAlltheWay, I'm a non-VCC volunteer. I'm doing my own job too but putting in extra hours to cope with it. And payment for 'overtime' varies by department and grade. In my case no money at all but time in lieu at the discretion of the local management. This isn't a 'how wonderful I am' but is to try to explain that these extra hours aren't necessarily a great burden to BA in financial terms and neither does it mean we are dispensible because our current work is not being done. But it does show that many of us are very very serious about saving BA for all our sakes.

[Betty girl]

VSOP.
Your right the volunteer that I had a chat with on the car park bus during the first wave of strikes was doing it to help protect her own job and was only going to get time off in leiu as her reward.

This strike has put many people in the company to alot of trouble. Many have had no choice. It has caused alot of resentment towards crew.

My manager had to change her working day from 9-5 to a series of shifts, starting early in the morning or working very late. She has children but because she is a crew manager she wasn't even given a choice.

The other day a normally chatty turnaround manager was a bit frosty until he realised that I was a non striker and then he went back to his usual chatty self.

Thanks to BASSA there is going to be alot of resentment to crew for a very long time.

[VSOP Fables]

Betty Girl

I've noticed a lot more sympathy recently for the non-strikers among my colleagues as they have come to realise it is mainly a hard core who are causing trouble. You aren't all tarred with the same brush and those VCC who have returned to 'normal' work this week have said how great most were to work with.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by MissM

This is a question, or should I call it an urgent request, to HiFlyer14, Tiramisu, Betty Girl and all of the other cabin crew members who crossed the picket line.

When New Fleet is commencing, because we all know that we can't stop it from happening, I should hope that you will be first ones asking for a transfer and a new contract?

I will be more than happy to go on to New Fleet, yes.

[welshboy1982]

I worked for British Airways on an 11 month contract from 2008 - 2009. I am due to start back in July on another 11 month contract. Whilst I am excited to return to the job I loved, i know things will be a little bit different this time around, not just with the pay, but also the atmosphere. I'm nervous about coming back what with everything that is going on and worried that I maybe won't get to fly as much as I would like to if indeed we are coming back just to help cover strike action.

I've given up a permanent, steady job up north and decided to risk everything and take a gamble on BA and hope that this new contract may lead to something, ie. New Fleet, because this is what I want to do. When i started working for BA I loved it, i loved the job , the company, the crew (well, most of them...) and it was all i wanted to do for the rest of my life. Then my contract ended and it literally felt like the end of the world. Ever since, i've been craving to come back.

Some people would probably think I am mad for giving up a permanent job for a temporary one again, but I want to see British Airways survive and I want to go back to a job I love. I know things will be different this time around, but even on this new contract, I will be earning more money and enjoying better perks than in my current job.

All the proposals i read about "Operation Columbus" when it first came out genuinely interested me and I initially thought that it would be up and running by the end of my contract last May 2009!!! I really hope that this time around things are different and everything works out, not just for me but for the strikers, the non-strikers and the company. I think i'm in for a rough few months ahead...

[Caribbean Boy]

Pay for volunteers

Volunteers who are not VCC get shift pay as they would for volunteer duty for any sort of actual or potential disruption, be it due to strike action, bad weather, terminal moves, etc. It varies depending on the kind of shift, i.e. night, evening, weekend.

No overtime is paid unless the department authorises it. I did see some double-shift agents from Heathrow Passenger Service get overtime in the WDC after they had done their regular shift at T5, but the majority of the volunteers (who came from Waterside) got no overtime. We get time off in lieu if we work longer hours during weekdays or a shift at weekends.

As an aside: volunteers used to get nothing at all some years ago, even for weekend or late shifts. We'd turn up at T1 or T4, do our shifts and get a thank you in return. Then overtime was paid for a while in 2007 (I won't have done baggage support without it) but it was abruptly terminated. Shift pay was then introduced, I think, and has remained ever since.

[Betty girl]

VSOP,
That is really nice to know.
I have already posted on here to say a big thankyou to all the volunteers who helped us crew to feel safe coming to work.
Thank you once again.

I did not work with any VCC as I am on E/F and not many needed there but I would have been happy to. I always enjoy it when we have new entrants because they are always so keen and I expect VCC's would have been a bit similar to brand new crew.

Thanks

[ottergirl]

This is a question, or should I call it an urgent request, to HiFlyer14, Tiramisu, Betty Girl and all of the other cabin crew members who crossed the picket line.

When New Fleet is commencing, because we all know that we can't stop it from happening, I should hope that you will be first ones asking for a transfer and a new contract?

Miss M, you were never on strike to prevent New Fleet, if you had been then the support for the strike would have been higher; in fact it formed part of BASSA's offer. I didn't come to work because I agreed that New Fleet was a great idea; I came to work because I was furious with the poor union representation, their refusal to negotiate, their hissy fit over sitting at a table with Amicus, their inability to recognise that a grown-up approach was needed and their callous disregard for the crew at LGW. They picked the wrong battle. Imposition is not an ideal way of managing change but it was easier to believe in fairies than to believe that an agreement would ever happen so I don't blame the IFCE management, I would have done the same.

welshboy1982 - welcome back! It is still a great job so don't worry about the tetchy minority, I have a feeling that being first in to New Fleet will be a good career move for you. You'll be the in-charge crew member in no time at all!

[Betty girl]

Welshboy1982,

I am sure that you may be going straight onto New Fleet or maybe a bit of time covering the strike and then straight onto New Fleet.

I think it could turn out to be a great fleet for you. Starting in the beginning, like you are, you will get the chance to go for the Cabin Manager job very quickly as the fleet expands and you gain experience. When BA brought in the 767 fleet which became midfleet (which eventually remerged back into WW anf EF) the promotions were very fast indeed.

I have flown with alot of crew on E/F that have said that they are thinking of going over to the New Fleet.

So don't worry I think you have made the right decision.

[License to Fly]

Originally Posted by MissM

None are pilots? Are they taken from other departments in BA? Read my reply above. If there's time for them to go through training, their jobs cannot be that important. Maybe they should be worried about their own employment rather instead than "backing" BA.

Let BA train as many volunteers as they want. I, and many others, will go on strike for as long as it takes. We all do what we believe in.

You think WW will sack us next time around? By all means, let him do it. At least I would have fought hard and held my head high throughout this dispute.

Not one were pilots. If you lot vote for another strike, BA aims to run 100% of the service, and thus needs the pilots to fly the planes now. Pilots were a quick fix to. The plan is to use these volunteers for future problem times (eg volcanic ash senarios). BA needed pilots on the initial cabin crew courses as they counted as fully trained crew and the CAA wanted 50% as full time crew - thats why it was important for the company to do this - it is not now.


Miss M- In response, you comments seem to portray the fact that CC think they will become martyrs from this, if that is what BASSA have put into your minds it is not too late to step back and have a reality check - i hear unemployment is not alot of fun and not something i would wish on anyone, why take the risk

[Caribbean Boy]

Crew suppport

Betty girl,

Your thanks are welcome indeed. Doing crew support was important for two reasons: (1) as a deterrent to anyone who wanted to create trouble (2) to provide reassurance to crew travelling to or from work.

Volunteers were stationed at the crew car park, crew buses, Arora International, Cranebank, landside departures and arrivals at T5, baggage store at T5, airside arrivals at T5, CRC. There were people doing crew support at LGW as well.

However, the shifts were mostly boring, but volunteers did the shifts as they felt that this was a job worth doing. So, any thanks make the shifts feel that bit easier.

[kangaroojack]

Welshboy1982

All the very best wishes to you, reading some of the posts on here may come across as a little concerning, but, overall,most staff are truly hospitable and you'll feel a part of the team in no time.
Welcome aboard

[MissM]

Betty Girl

For NF to work alongside existing crew on EF and WW, would you have been willing to give up 12 days a year?

I'm sorry to say this but I am absolutely shocked that you are welcoming ex-temporary crew in such manner who are only brought back to break our union and take our jobs. I really am.

Meal Chucker

Because you are happy to enjoy the terms and conditions which BASSA, our union, have fought for without yourselves doing a single bit. In case you didn't notice, BASSA are trying to control New Fleet but BA will only "discuss" it in the future with them. Check their last proposal. Discuss means nothing.

Choccybox

In my opinion, it's not about LGW having to finance LHR crew members. It's about transfer rights and union representation. As LGW have failed to support these two issues, maybe it would be best to exclude them out of the NSP as it's apparently not important to them.

BABOBO

If you are finding my answers to be repetitive, don't bother reading them.

ottergirl

Why does it form a huge part of BASSA's proposal? Because BASSA can't prevent it from happening! What BASSA can do it so to gain as much control of its growth and process as possible, which BA will not allow. They will only "discuss" it with BASSA. As I have said previously in this post, discuss means really nothing.

License To Fly

I will believe a 100% schedule when I see it.

Why should I step back because I am doing something I believe in? We have heard of unemployment for a long time. We all heard that either our P45 or a new contract was to be delivered to our letter boxes a couple of days ago. No doubt some of you were hoping for it too. Neither arrived.

[Flap33]

What's to rush for WW?

So BASSA are now trying to "control" New Fleet - stunning.....

In June 2009 BASSA could have recommended they accept an offer from BA which DID NOT contain New Fleet - that is a spectacular own goal IMHO.

As for New Contracts/P45s there is no hurry - BASSA have organised a strike which has been poorly supported despite such massive ballot results, BA are going about the business of recruiting 11 month Temps back into the fould, Cranebank is still churning out VCCs. I would imaging WW is waiting for BASSA to announce a new ballot and then will hit the Nuclear button.

A very intersting comment by WW in the BA invstors' magazine interview - says he's going to deal with this issue (I assume BASSA) once and for all.

[License to Fly]

Originally Posted by MissM

What makes you certain that the volunteers jobs are safe?

Again, more BASSA propaganda. The VCC i flew with knew the emergency drills as well (if not better) than regular crew - where there took time was with the standard service, something they has not really done much and is hardly difficult to learn.

VCC told me that all they rehearsed was emergency procedures as this is what they considered was the main reason for being on the plane.

[Chuchinchow]

MissM has indignantly told Betty Girl

I'm sorry to say this but I am absolutely shocked that you are welcoming ex-temporary crew in such manner who are only brought back to break our union and take our jobs. I really am.

Be shocked - absolutely or otherwise. British Airways and British public opinion have passed you by, MissM, so you now have all the time you want to be "absolutely shocked".

I am sure that BASSA, which apparently is the strikers' saviour, will back you up, give you an institutional shoulder to cry on (or not, as the case may be). What it will not do is to pay your current salary and allowances into your bank account.

BASSA are trying to control New Fleet

Call me old-fashioned if you like, MissM, but I have always thought that BASSA's core business was trade unionism. If any organisation is to "control New Fleet" it will be British Airways' management - not BASSA.