British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Originally Posted by P-T-Gamekeeper

Litebulbs has been a long running contributor to ALL the BA v BASSA threads, and has, earned his spurs, as it were. Whilst I
ay not agree with all of his points, I think he provides an interesting Unite slant to the thread.

I'm not sure what you hope to achieve by banning him??

Sorry Sir,

Just rechecked the rules hence the deletion however do you think it would be deemed acceptable if an ALM posts a few comments

(Pretty sure you and I did a few Gulf Sched's together )

[melc]

Dave3 - Hahaha - you really believe that don't you. There is no point in saying anymore you are obviously brainwashed.

[dave3]

fly so only your oppinion will count then....lol

[Hotel Mode]

taxi to work. hotel accomadation paid for, taxi home and extra money to enjoy themselves whilst away

Complete, total and utter rubbish.

The only people who got an allowance to get to work were cabin crew breaking the strike.

As for 'extra money to enjoy themselves'. Laughable. This is BA remember.

Just more BASSA forum lies. Dont you think its funny that its always the ones who are proud xxxxxs who claim to know what was going on during the strike.

[wiggy]

dave

the real saviours are the ones who put their necks on the line and lost money to try and save the terms and conditions for all...

Oh please, "for all".... not my T&C's you weren't or the majority of the company's employees T&Cs for that matter, so please don't tell me you were on strike for the greater good.

BTW the reason the likes of wonker, puss in boots et.al. didn't last here is not because they were given an unreasonably hard time, it's because they didn't like and/or couldn't cope with reasoned argument; fortunately this forum is not a clone of the BASSA site.

[dave3]

I have facts and you dont like the truth.. the truth hurts.. it would be seen to be very bad if the press got hold of the true facts that the volunteers got more than the striking crew they replaced.. I will not labour any more on the point..
VOLUNtEERS DO THE DECENT THING AND PAY YOUR MONEY BACK TO THE COMPANY YOU SAY YOU AND YOU ALONE ARE SAVING

[BABOBO]

Dave3

You seem to turn and twist all agreements on this forum to suit yourselves.. a volunteer is a volunteer they cost the company money.. it is my belief that they were given more than allowances... taxi to work. hotel accomadation paid for, taxi home and extra money to enjoy themselves whilst away..not just a small point one that cost the company more money than needed...

Offcourse the volunteers are costing the company money... training, allowances to eat down route, uniforms and not to mention the fact that there will be a backlog with their own work!!!

Fact of the matter is however, that because of the volunteers and our 'regular' cabin crew who came into work during the last strike, we have been able to keep BA flying and get the majority of our customers to where they want to be.....

Don't start moaning on here that volunteers cost the company more money than needed, while you, your union and your fellow strikers are the cause of this absolute mess we are in....

And maybe, just maybe.... if BASSA would have worked with the company instead of against it, there would have been a negociated and sensible deal by now, and all those extra costs you are talking about would have been avoided and we as a company would have been well and truly on the road by now of building a strong and competative BA!!!

[Spanner in the works]

I see it now - finally.
They went on strike to protect MY terms and conditions as well as their own.

I have had no pay rise for three years.
My section is down 4 people on two years ago.
My workloads have increased due to the above and extra work being taken on.

Thanks for your hard work though - working with one less management crew on board must be an absolute nightmare.
Maybe you could get another week of rest days after a Glasgow round-trip to cope.

[Spanner in the works]

Quote Dave3

volunteers got more than the striking crew they replaced.. I will not labour any more on the point..
VOLUNtEERS DO THE DECENT THING AND PAY YOUR MONEY BACK TO THE COMPANY YOU SAY YOU AND YOU ALONE ARE SAVING

Even if they did get more, even if they did get monies to induce, even if they got promised lots of tea in China.
What on earth has it got to do with the original reason for striking?

Good on em I say. If true, it's not enough. Pay em more.

[fly12345]

fly so only your oppinion will count then....lol

Mine is not an opinion but fact.
You are not willing or able to understand even when clear, unbiased and factual reasoning is used to explain an event, no wonder you are still believing the spin and manipulation of your union there is nothing I can say or do to make you understand how dangerous your behavior has became to yourself and your colleagues, I guess the only way to make you realize how bad things really are is going o be when the only thing flying you ll see are going to be crispy P45s.
Good luck.

[Spanner in the works]

It's no wonder we are where we are with that mindset.

It's like a small child that has just broken something in your house.
Not sure whether to be angry with them or feel abject pity and teach them gently the error of their ways.

Patronising? You bet.

[sparkoflife]

dave3

I'm VCC, and can only assume your claims come straight from BASSA. If you want FACTS, here they are:

I'm in my third year of pay freezes. My team's workload has increased, whilst my team has shrunk from 11 to 7. I volunteered to spend a year on a 4-day week (so lost 20% of my salary) to help company finances.

As a volunteer, I've kissed goodbye to my personal life for the last 3 months, and am prepared to do without it for more months to come if necessary. I sacrificed evenings and weekends during training, and the only expense or allowance paid during this period was for reimbursement of visa costs.

If I operate a sector that's 12 hours long, I'll get paid the same as I get for a day at work in Waterside. Additionally I get a single daily allowance - which is taxable - that barely covers my meal expenses. No box payments, no one-down allowances, no knocking the light fitting out for a few extra quid. I drive in using my own car and my own petrol, although the company would reimburse me for a taxi should I feel threatened by striking crew or pickets. In other words, I make nothing extra for being a volunteer. In fact, I'd venture that I'm probably slightly out of pocket for volunteering.

But that's fine, because I'm not doing it for personal gain. I'm doing it because I love this airline, and I won't let a bunch of self-serving 70s throwbacks lead the blissfully unaware down a path that will result in all of us joining the dole queue.

So please, get your facts straight before trotting out utter rubbish.

[BAAlltheway]

Dave3

no you are missing my point if you volunteered you volunteered you should not have been paid.. any volunteers pilots,, mangers from waterside, ground crew anyone should give money back that they got whilst volunteering...

Dave,
I am one of those "managers from waterside". I DID take unpaid leave to support BA. I have been volunteering in BACK BA roles. And i have been TOTALLY unpaid for this in anyway. In fact, my day job doesnt go away, so what generally happens, is that i do a backing ba shift instead of my regular hours- hence it is unpaid. And then i go home and do my day job at home, in the evenings and weekends to catch up. Oh, and guess what. No overtime is paid, so i do 2 roles for the price of one.

Same goes for the other 4 people in my immediate team who are doing various Backing BA roles.

Add to this the fact that i am actually also covering the work of 2.5 other managers from my team, all more senior than me, who left in the 2008 voluntary redundancy scheme, not to be replaced, and for no extra salary, no promotion. No pay rise for 3 years. No bonus, no increment. Oh, and as a manager you dont get an extra ticket for 20 years long service anymore.

To be honest, i feel like i have done MORE than my fair share...
Do you start to see why "the rest of us" are feeling a bit miffed?

[Pornpants1]

dave3 is another in yet a long line of people who come across from another forum, in order to put the cat amongst the pigeonsso to speak, to sock it to all the people who don't take BASSAs word at face value and don't dogmaticly follow their every word without reflection or thought.

Once they find that their wildest claims are picked apart they normally head off, only to make an appearence from time to time with a few more liberal with the truth accusations!

Its probably the same person who was complaining loudly about his post being removed earlier or whom needs help defining "volunteer"

Come on dave3 you (claim) to have the information about the huge amounts of renumeration that VCC are enjoying, share it with us, leak it to the independent, but remember it best stand up to scutany unlike the last BASSA claim of pilots being paid £166 per hour and Captains being given £1000 to treat crew to quote Hotel Mode above

This is BA remember.

dave3,
I look forward to pprunes equivelent of the MPs allowance scandle when you go public with as you say "the truth"


On top of that dave3, I hope you and all the other 3000 crew are going to declare your strike pay to the tax man!

[trolleytrolley]

Just A Thought!!!

Hi Everyone,

I have been reading these posts with interest. I am a Purser and a CSST I have been with the company for ten years and started on the ground.

So I have seen both sides of the company. The burning question did I strike NO!!!

I have my personal personal reasons as to why I never and one day I may think I did the right thing or I may not..I don't have a crystal ball so who know's.

One thing I would like to ask tho and I think everyone in the company should be asking the same thing and that is WHAT ABOUT PENSIONS.

I do admire WW for his business skills but at the same time I am wondering is this a very very cleaver man... take my example: before you start thinking oh hear we go another WW hater I am genuinely not!!

He starts on the ground and get's everyone to accept a deal and a paycut and increase there workload...same for pilots. He then trys to do this with c/c knowing the union will say no to alot of things.

He then divides the workforce because everyone has to give up something...and rightly so should c/c...so everyone is so angry with c/c they decide to break the strike so it has less impact on our customer's and a deal will have to be done.

Okay so they set up New Fleet and save x amount per year...they also make it very attractive to c/c and more so Lgw and they start on New Fleet as well.

They get all C/C who wants to transfer to New Fleet to sign a new contract...new t&c's and new pension package which won't be the final salary or the current one it will actually be alot less.

So they manage to acheive this with 12000 Cabin Crew...what about the rest of the work place do I personally think he will stop there no. If Ba employs 40000 then he has succeeded filling the pension deficit by only 30 %. These numbers are all estimates for example that is.

Surely then after this has all happened won't he then have a reason to do the same to everyone..Well if cabin crew have done it everyone can...phrase comes to mind!!

After ten years of working for BA which prides itself on been the best airline with the best staff I can't help thinking that the career I signed up to is soon going to be long gone and that is a horrific thought if i'm honest.

I am not posting this to have a dig at anyone who volunteered like I said I came to work myself and I understand why you all did what you did because I used to work on the ground. I don't agree in some thing's the union have done but at the same time I can't help thinking that there is a longer term plan to all of this as well. The most prolific of these is the merger with Iberia.

Also I was wondering: the monthly payment is an average of 2008/2009 allowances so therefore how come Eurofleet will get £2500 and Worldwide will get £8500..am I missing something because that would equal £208 per month which means take home £1350??? before tax!!!

Thanks for reading all on a lighter note: before writing this I had a cigarette and put it out and i had an ashtray ontop of a recycling box...I must of missed and I was sat here thinking something was burning....thought it was my computer took battery out and still could smell it...then I heard a big bang and when I investigated...I only set fire to the recycling box and there was flames coming out of it!! so I became the fire fighter and dampened down a few towels and through these over it!!! Needless to say I don't have a recycling bin anymore!!!!!!! Oh well I am Cabin Crew at the end of the day!!!!!!!!!

[melc]

Dave 3: VOLUNtEERS DO THE DECENT THING AND PAY YOUR MONEY BACK TO THE COMPANY YOU SAY YOU AND YOU ALONE ARE SAVING

What on earth are you talking about - I'll tell you what you give your salary back to BA - you are talking utter twaddle (I'm being kind here it is a forum after all) - where on earth do you get your 'so called facts' which they most certainly are not. You didn't lose money you made the decision to strike - ergo no salary - why did you expect to be paid? Ask BASSA don't they pay you - and if not why not - have you asked them that question.

I suggest you really digest what is being said on here and make up your own mind and not have the mindset of the unions and believe every single word they have said.

I'll tell you what with people like you none of us have a hope - I and my husband have worked for BA for many many years and in all that time I have never heard such a load of rubbish in my life. You are making me MAD!!!

[Spanner in the works]

Pensions deficit is strictly regulated.
The current "hole" is created because expected income against expected outgoings is less over the period of cover required for current life expectancies.
This hole is to be filled by us either paying more or for longer, or receiving less or all three.
They HAVE to sort it this year. It's the law.

You can't fill the hole with possible changes to workforce over the next 5 years lets say.

While your arguments have some merit - there is ALWAYS a long term plan, there has to be for any company - I think the pensions deficit is scary enough for all of us without putting more scary issues out there that links it to the current CC situation.

[Hand Solo]

Who really cares if the volunteers get paid or not? Why don't we just make it simple by paying them and calling them Temporary Cabin Crew? Perhaps then the regular crew will start to realise the significance of the T in TCC, and how easy it would be to drop that T when the P45s start hitting the doormats after 12th June. Sorry strikers, BA doesn't need you and BA doesn't want you. It's time to start making plans for a new life after BA.

[Pornpants1]

Trollytrolly

After ten years of working for BA which prides itself on been the best airline with the best staff I can't help thinking that the career I signed up to is soon going to be long gone and that is a horrific thought if i'm honest.

You,me and most people across the whole of BA. Unfortunatly BA must stand on its own 2 feet in this world. Income per seat has fallen, other costs have increased, and to make matters worse everyone wants a share of our market, the best example is EK, but you can add in many of the other far eastern airlines, who are doing it better and cheaper than BA Other airlines are investing in the Airbus, brand new 777 and the 787s BA are not generating the cash to make large wholesale investments like the other airlines. If we don't change (and every other dept has) then we do a Pan Am, that is manage ourselves out of business!

The biggest threat to the pension right now is the regulator and continued strike action by the minority, not WW or BA.

[Hotel Mode]

Also I was wondering: the monthly payment is an average of 2008/2009 allowances so therefore how come Eurofleet will get £2500 and Worldwide will get £8500..am I missing something because that would equal £208 per month which means take home £1350??? before tax!!!

Don't forget meal allowances aren't included. It's only short turnrounds, telephone etc etc. Whatever you earn in meal allowances will remain on top as now. BASSA haven't really explained that very well. Most people I've come accross think they'll be at least evens and often slightly better off.

It's higher for ww as it includes box + back to back payments etc.