British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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So, BA is winning the battle to keep the airline flying, but the cancellations have been more damaging than BA would like you to believe and it's clearly not possible to continue this kind of operation forever.
Just one other thing is that BA have a large number of excess crew knocking around, whether unwanted standby VCCs or crew reporting for cancelled flights.
BA have played this very well, they have managed to have not 1 single cancellation over the reduced schedule. This is because they are being very conservative with crew numbers. I dont think a 100% long haul service would be a problem now with the numbers they have, but advertising it and then cancelling services would play merry hell in the press.
Post strike if BA decide they need 2000 less full time equivalant crew they could easily run a full service for a while. They'd then be in the situation of knowing all bar the sick would report, something they dont have the luxury of now.
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MarkSpeed,
I always treat phone calls from the Cabin Crew with respect (and some of them have been fairly daft, I can tell you!). The bottom line is, however daft the observation, if I ignore the call or make a put down comment or whatever, that guy or girl may feel shy of doing the same thing again with what turns out to be a real problem.
Sorry for the thread creep, but I just wanted to pick you up on that.
I've lost count of how many times over 20 years I have had to say to pilots "No, take this seriously, I have never heard/smelt/felt/seen that before" and it has turned out to be a real problem.
Sorry for the thread creep, but I just wanted to pick you up on that.
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Ah Topbunk yes, of course as you WERE a Captain (although I bet you still call yourself that on letters/chequebooks etc 
) and I'm just Cabin Crew when people "decide" they will automatically think you must be right over me.
Perhaps it's time you retired from here too, and left the debate to those who know current conditions in the airline world rather than the past?
It's just that sort of superior attitude that has caused accidents. "Captain Topbunk clearly knows all so I wont report that noise".................(crack!). The aviation world is littered with accidents that would have been avoided if only "Captain Important" had listened to someone else.
And demomonkey, I AM NOT A BASSA MILITANT. I am backing BA and working thank you.
) and I'm just Cabin Crew when people "decide" they will automatically think you must be right over me.Perhaps it's time you retired from here too, and left the debate to those who know current conditions in the airline world rather than the past?
It's just that sort of superior attitude that has caused accidents. "Captain Topbunk clearly knows all so I wont report that noise".................(crack!). The aviation world is littered with accidents that would have been avoided if only "Captain Important" had listened to someone else.
And demomonkey, I AM NOT A BASSA MILITANT. I am backing BA and working thank you.
Last edited by MarkSpeed; 30th May 2010 at 19:18.
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UNITE does give you a good laugh - A friend went to Bedfont to feel the mood over there today.
Not as many people as on previous days. One of the reps said that there is always a low turnout on weekends - if it's not because of the weather or the first day of the week being Monday, it's because of the weekend...
Not as many people as on previous days. One of the reps said that there is always a low turnout on weekends - if it's not because of the weather or the first day of the week being Monday, it's because of the weekend...
One of the reps said that there is always a low turnout on weekends - if it's not because of the weather or the first day of the week being Monday, it's because of the weekend...
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If I may chip in?
In any proper company, and I´m sure BA is one of those, cabin crew are actively encouraged to communicate with the pilots anything unusual, anything that has them worried and anything that they feel the pilots need to know.
Be that a leaking seal, a popped circuit breaker or a weird sound in the aft galley.
Experienced cabin crew will clearly have a better foundation for judging what is and is not unusual, and any pilot worth his/her stripes will give due attention to something reported by his/her CC. Whatever their length of service.
Ninety nine times out of a hundred there is nothing amiss, the hundredth time the stairs´driver did punch a gaping big hole in the fuselage and climbing to altitude would have caused a major problem.
MarkSpeed, TopBunk, rather than doubting each other´s truthfulness, nitpicking about it here and having an anecdotal willy waving contest, please just accept that you have different experiences.
Nothing unusual about that.
It is entirely possible and plausible that MarkSpeed has reported a number of serious problems, and that TopBunk has never had an FA report anything serious.
Neither experience proves anything at all.
Just accept and respect that the other person´s experience is different and move on.
Please.
In any proper company, and I´m sure BA is one of those, cabin crew are actively encouraged to communicate with the pilots anything unusual, anything that has them worried and anything that they feel the pilots need to know.
Be that a leaking seal, a popped circuit breaker or a weird sound in the aft galley.
Experienced cabin crew will clearly have a better foundation for judging what is and is not unusual, and any pilot worth his/her stripes will give due attention to something reported by his/her CC. Whatever their length of service.
Ninety nine times out of a hundred there is nothing amiss, the hundredth time the stairs´driver did punch a gaping big hole in the fuselage and climbing to altitude would have caused a major problem.
MarkSpeed, TopBunk, rather than doubting each other´s truthfulness, nitpicking about it here and having an anecdotal willy waving contest, please just accept that you have different experiences.
Nothing unusual about that.
It is entirely possible and plausible that MarkSpeed has reported a number of serious problems, and that TopBunk has never had an FA report anything serious.
Neither experience proves anything at all.
Just accept and respect that the other person´s experience is different and move on.
Please.
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Almost atypical?? oops theyve made the sentence mean the opposite of what they meant again. Numpties
Atypical - Adj - Not conforming to type; unusual or irregular.
Atypical - Adj - Not conforming to type; unusual or irregular.
BASSA > Latest News
DAY 13 in the BBB HOUSE - FAMILY DAY!
May 30th, 2010 by admin
Day 13 in the Bedfont Big brother house - Series two.
Family day...
We anticipated that this would be a quiet day with it being a Sunday but we were wrong, Bedfont was packed again. Families were out in force this time and the weather was pretty sunny all day.
It was a heart-warming sight to see families, despite the anxieties of being on strike, enjoying the warm day and bouncy castle. Numerous little ones joined us on the picket lines and added a little falsetto to the cheery chants!
It would have been difficult even for the Daily Walsh Mail to portray this almost atypical English scene of families, picnicking in a field on a summers day, as their imagined hot bed of supposed militancy!
Memories of the day, from humbling to hilarity...
Two very human stories, a crew member who lives in Birmingham and gets up every morning at five am to drive two hours plus to be at Bedfont. She is the one of the first on the picket line and has been so on every strike day so far and will be again every day this week, reluctantly apart from one day; she cannot afford the petrol cost for that day out of her budget and apologised for not being able to make it...
A commuter from Italy who’s father is dying from cancer, who again apologized for not being on tomorrow’s picket line; he has already lost his travel and so is buying full fare tickets to return to his homeland to be with his father.
These people owe no apology - they are simply amazing human beings, and what the spirit of being cabin crew is all about. We can simply say; thank you for being prepared to stand up and fight for what’s right, we are humbled by your sacrifice when some others couldn’t be bothered...
Hilarity? A big thank you to the huge contribution from our gay community, you guys’ energy is just amazing. Suffice to say, one well-known Irish cheerleader’s impromptu song repertoire had a fairly good airing on Sky news throughout the day! Our personal favourites - “Don’t blame it on the ash cloud” and the pilots’ favourite “Oh, your wife is looking grumpy down the back”
Tomorrow? It’s bank holiday so it’s another family orientated day; the bouncy castle is back, also with children’s’ pony rides and other novelty attractions - so why not come along and join us, you know you want to!
Lastly, the early morning picket attendance problem has been solved, the free breakfast before 10am did the trick. Now we know how crew hotels feel!
Mr. Walsh appears to have declined the opportunity to continue negotiations during this week; he obviously wants to simply test our resolve. See you tomorrow: we are still strong - Mr. Walsh you need to listen...
“All dictators ride to and fro upon the backs of Tigers.
Upon from which, they dare not dismount,
And yet the Tigers grow ever more hungry”
Winston Churchill
DAY 13 in the BBB HOUSE - FAMILY DAY!
May 30th, 2010 by admin
Day 13 in the Bedfont Big brother house - Series two.
Family day...
We anticipated that this would be a quiet day with it being a Sunday but we were wrong, Bedfont was packed again. Families were out in force this time and the weather was pretty sunny all day.
It was a heart-warming sight to see families, despite the anxieties of being on strike, enjoying the warm day and bouncy castle. Numerous little ones joined us on the picket lines and added a little falsetto to the cheery chants!
It would have been difficult even for the Daily Walsh Mail to portray this almost atypical English scene of families, picnicking in a field on a summers day, as their imagined hot bed of supposed militancy!
Memories of the day, from humbling to hilarity...
Two very human stories, a crew member who lives in Birmingham and gets up every morning at five am to drive two hours plus to be at Bedfont. She is the one of the first on the picket line and has been so on every strike day so far and will be again every day this week, reluctantly apart from one day; she cannot afford the petrol cost for that day out of her budget and apologised for not being able to make it...
A commuter from Italy who’s father is dying from cancer, who again apologized for not being on tomorrow’s picket line; he has already lost his travel and so is buying full fare tickets to return to his homeland to be with his father.
These people owe no apology - they are simply amazing human beings, and what the spirit of being cabin crew is all about. We can simply say; thank you for being prepared to stand up and fight for what’s right, we are humbled by your sacrifice when some others couldn’t be bothered...
Hilarity? A big thank you to the huge contribution from our gay community, you guys’ energy is just amazing. Suffice to say, one well-known Irish cheerleader’s impromptu song repertoire had a fairly good airing on Sky news throughout the day! Our personal favourites - “Don’t blame it on the ash cloud” and the pilots’ favourite “Oh, your wife is looking grumpy down the back”
Tomorrow? It’s bank holiday so it’s another family orientated day; the bouncy castle is back, also with children’s’ pony rides and other novelty attractions - so why not come along and join us, you know you want to!
Lastly, the early morning picket attendance problem has been solved, the free breakfast before 10am did the trick. Now we know how crew hotels feel!
Mr. Walsh appears to have declined the opportunity to continue negotiations during this week; he obviously wants to simply test our resolve. See you tomorrow: we are still strong - Mr. Walsh you need to listen...
“All dictators ride to and fro upon the backs of Tigers.
Upon from which, they dare not dismount,
And yet the Tigers grow ever more hungry”
Winston Churchill
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Lastly, the early morning picket attendance problem has been solved, the free breakfast before 10am did the trick. Now we know how crew hotels feel!
WW is not wanting to talk because he does not have to! All 777 away today together with 24 747 all crewed, that is now most of the longhaul fleet moving, stand aside BASSA you are marginalised
The joint general secs can grovel on the TV all they like with same old same old soundbites, but the airline lumbers on without those angry vindictive militants.
The longer the strikes drag on the longer the same people rock up for strike action attracted by bouncy castles and donkey rides,........... now what was it I said about cheap earlier????
New Fleet is coming BASSA have admitted this, just what are you striking about???
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“All dictators ride to and fro upon the backs of Tigers.
Upon from which, they dare not dismount,
And yet the Tigers grow ever more hungry”
Winston Churchill
Upon from which, they dare not dismount,
And yet the Tigers grow ever more hungry”
Winston Churchill
If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall in the ditch
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CC reports
I'm a LH captain & I'm horrified at the suggestion that CC reports of unusual smells/sounds etc in the cabin aren't taken seriously. They are - they ALWAYS are!
I agree with Markspeed in all respects - any captain would be clearly negligent if he didn't further investigate the situation (even if he thinks he knows what the problem is.)
I had the pleasure of crawling around at D3L in front of circa 200 passengers with my ear to the floor a couple of weeks ago!
It's also self-evident that more experienced CC will be more likely to spot the unusual thing that's not showing on the instruments yet, but is just about to come along and bite you in the ass...
I agree with Markspeed in all respects - any captain would be clearly negligent if he didn't further investigate the situation (even if he thinks he knows what the problem is.)
I had the pleasure of crawling around at D3L in front of circa 200 passengers with my ear to the floor a couple of weeks ago!
It's also self-evident that more experienced CC will be more likely to spot the unusual thing that's not showing on the instruments yet, but is just about to come along and bite you in the ass...
A bit of background reading from this morning's UK's "Timesonline".......
Strikes are a minefield - for both sides of the dispute - Times Online
It contains the following pertinent (?) comment:
Strikes are a minefield - for both sides of the dispute - Times Online
It contains the following pertinent (?) comment:
Alex Lock, an industrial dispute expert at Beachcroft, points out that the detailed processes and procedures laid down" ( for balloting for strike action; ed.) ) "are not particularly onerous. “As a package they make sense to ensure that trade union members do have a voice [in the calling of a strike],” he says. “In practice, it’s not difficult to create a tick-box list for a trade union to follow. And, what’s more, we have been living with this legislation for 18 years. If you can’t get your systems right after all this time then you should really look seriously at yourself.”
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Priorities?
Huummmmmmm? I don't think I'd be throwing away my ST if I had a family member who was dying of cancer and needed to use my ST get there? I'm not saying that this isn't true, but seriously, who comes first here?
All Bassa's emails have the same ol content. It's all about 'an amazing atmosphere, family, resolve, free breakfast, samosa's, bouncy castles, drunk and disordly cc (how funny is that) a couple of sob stories bla bla bla bla bla bla ...........
If I were a member, I'd be asking SOME questions like:-
WHAT'S THE ACTUAL PLAN HERE?
WHERE DO WE GO WHEN THIS BALLOT RUNS OUT ON THE 12TH?
WHAT DO WE DO IF WW DOESN'T BACK DOWN?
HOW LONG ARE WE REALLY PREPARED TO BE ON STRIKE?
WHAT IS OUR MISSION?
HOW MANY MEMBERS ARE REALLY, REALLY ON STRIKE. ACTUAL FIGURES PLEASE?
WHERE IS LIZ MOLONE AND WHAT IS SHE DOING?
AND ... WHAT ABOUT DS TWEETING IN THE MEETING. IS HE GOING TO STEP DOWN? IS HE GOING TO GET AWAY WITH THAT?
Bassa mention none of the above. It's all PARTY PARTY PARTY! Well it's not!! Its a serious dispute and warrants some serious messages from their very poor, inept leadership.
Interesting to note on the Bassa forum, a rep has informed a crew member that there is 'no upper limit' for unfair dismissal to lots of cheers around that. Oh dear. What a mess they have created and how many victims will go down in what has become a personal dispute between DH and LM.
Oh I think the lord I am backing BA!! With friends like Bassa .....?
All Bassa's emails have the same ol content. It's all about 'an amazing atmosphere, family, resolve, free breakfast, samosa's, bouncy castles, drunk and disordly cc (how funny is that) a couple of sob stories bla bla bla bla bla bla ...........
If I were a member, I'd be asking SOME questions like:-
WHAT'S THE ACTUAL PLAN HERE?
WHERE DO WE GO WHEN THIS BALLOT RUNS OUT ON THE 12TH?
WHAT DO WE DO IF WW DOESN'T BACK DOWN?
HOW LONG ARE WE REALLY PREPARED TO BE ON STRIKE?
WHAT IS OUR MISSION?
HOW MANY MEMBERS ARE REALLY, REALLY ON STRIKE. ACTUAL FIGURES PLEASE?
WHERE IS LIZ MOLONE AND WHAT IS SHE DOING?
AND ... WHAT ABOUT DS TWEETING IN THE MEETING. IS HE GOING TO STEP DOWN? IS HE GOING TO GET AWAY WITH THAT?
Bassa mention none of the above. It's all PARTY PARTY PARTY! Well it's not!! Its a serious dispute and warrants some serious messages from their very poor, inept leadership.
Interesting to note on the Bassa forum, a rep has informed a crew member that there is 'no upper limit' for unfair dismissal to lots of cheers around that. Oh dear. What a mess they have created and how many victims will go down in what has become a personal dispute between DH and LM.
Oh I think the lord I am backing BA!! With friends like Bassa .....?
Last edited by Get Smart; 31st May 2010 at 07:44. Reason: content
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Thanks dave747436.
Thank goodness most pilots and cabin crew are on the same page.
It's worrying though that there are still a few "Van-Zanten" attitudes flying aircraft at BA.
Thank goodness most pilots and cabin crew are on the same page.
It's worrying though that there are still a few "Van-Zanten" attitudes flying aircraft at BA.
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A bit of background reading from this morning's UK's "Timesonline".......
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The only way forward for BA is without the strikers return
I've seen posts that imply, in a worst case scenario, certainly as far as one particular striker is concerned, that they will be returning to a 'New Fleet'.
How on earth can the Airline continue with such a bunch of militants, who, not only show uncaring disloyalty to the company and it's employees (who continue taking the hit), and it customers, the very ones that ensure their mortgage is paid monthly etc etc?
The bunch in the blinkered BASSA brigade will stop at nothing. Thank heavens, that they are the minority, who, hopefully will become less and less relevant and leave the remainder of the staff to re-build this national icon Airline.
I would'nt wish for anyone to lose their job, but just how many warnings do they need to be given????
I wonder if they really understand of the strength of feeling towards them from the employees.
How on earth can the Airline continue with such a bunch of militants, who, not only show uncaring disloyalty to the company and it's employees (who continue taking the hit), and it customers, the very ones that ensure their mortgage is paid monthly etc etc?
The bunch in the blinkered BASSA brigade will stop at nothing. Thank heavens, that they are the minority, who, hopefully will become less and less relevant and leave the remainder of the staff to re-build this national icon Airline.
I would'nt wish for anyone to lose their job, but just how many warnings do they need to be given????
I wonder if they really understand of the strength of feeling towards them from the employees.
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It was a heart-warming sight to see families, despite the anxieties of being on strike, enjoying the warm day and bouncy castle. Numerous little ones joined us on the picket lines and added a little falsetto to the cheery chants!
The mindset of BASSA becomes even more questionable
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questionable picketers..
And as well as children, on my drives round the airport to get to work this week, i have now spotted 5 people sporting hairstyles that would never get past even the weakest of checks against guidelines. Long dyed mullets, mohicans, zebra stripes.
SO either there are some crew who have decided to go for striking long term and had new hairstyles in celebration, or there are definitely some extras being bought is. SWG definitely come to mind as possibilities.
I could be wrong, but aren't there rules about who can be on a picket line? Doesn't it have to be actual workers in the dispute? Protest lines i believe have more flexibility, and can include supporters, but not the picket lines themselves.
In which case, if BASSA ARE sending kiddie winks to the actual picket line, they are yet again, leaving themselves wide open for trouble.
SO either there are some crew who have decided to go for striking long term and had new hairstyles in celebration, or there are definitely some extras being bought is. SWG definitely come to mind as possibilities.
I could be wrong, but aren't there rules about who can be on a picket line? Doesn't it have to be actual workers in the dispute? Protest lines i believe have more flexibility, and can include supporters, but not the picket lines themselves.
In which case, if BASSA ARE sending kiddie winks to the actual picket line, they are yet again, leaving themselves wide open for trouble.