British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
I've watched the progress of this dispute with interest and have read many/most of the latest online press reports as to how things are panning out.
Is it true that the only stumbling block to a resolution is WW's determination not to restore seniority with regard to the staff travel privileges of striking employees ?
Is it true that the only stumbling block to a resolution is WW's determination not to restore seniority with regard to the staff travel privileges of striking employees ?
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standard unit
Is it true that the only stumbling block to a resolution is WW's determination not to restore seniority with regard to the staff travel privileges of striking employees ?
Is that a positive/negative position from Unite.?? i.e. we still intend to hold a gun to your head.
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It certainly appears that ST is one of the sticking points now, but recently BA relayed concernes that DS had stated they wanted to revisit some of the aspects of the 'deal'. Either way, if Bassa accept this deal, it will most certainly be worse than the original deal so what was the point of the strike then? Had they have accepted the June offer, we could have put this bed with no threat of new fleet, without inflicting so much pain.
I've done 3 flights (EF) during this wave of strikes and on each flight, I have met crew who went on strike first time round, but feel they made a mistake and have come back. They are angry and upset with themselves and Bassa and have sent their resigned to the Union. I would be very interested to know an update of just how many resignations have gone in if anyone knows?
I feel a bit sorry for these guys who have been mislead by Bassa. I know we all had access to the same information and should have weighed it up with caution but unfortunately, too many were blindly led. They've lost their ST now and it looks like it wont come back at this stage - who knows? WW doesn't really need to do anymore bargining here. He clearly is winning and more and more crew are starting to see that.
Reporting to work is starting to feel more like a normal day now.
I've done 3 flights (EF) during this wave of strikes and on each flight, I have met crew who went on strike first time round, but feel they made a mistake and have come back. They are angry and upset with themselves and Bassa and have sent their resigned to the Union. I would be very interested to know an update of just how many resignations have gone in if anyone knows?
I feel a bit sorry for these guys who have been mislead by Bassa. I know we all had access to the same information and should have weighed it up with caution but unfortunately, too many were blindly led. They've lost their ST now and it looks like it wont come back at this stage - who knows? WW doesn't really need to do anymore bargining here. He clearly is winning and more and more crew are starting to see that.
Reporting to work is starting to feel more like a normal day now.
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Yes, it's a yes. But it's an ambiguous yes.
Walsh gives back staff travel, the strike is suspended today. Tomorrow, Unite ballots for additional action and we find ourselves back in this same position in six weeks time.
Walsh is in a difficult position. He needs to show who is boss or we will find ourselves facing strikes year in, year out. I've been flying for 6 years and I think there have almost been as many strike calls in the that time.
There have certainly been three.... Even those odds are pretty telling.
- I've just driven past the picket lines at Heahtrow next to the police station and opposite the Holiday Inn. They looked impressively busy. But I thought the limit was 12 people? Seemed a fair few more than that down there.
But how many are actually on strike and how many are, to use a term utilised to describe temporary working-up CSDs a few months back - 'Plastic' Pickets?
Walsh gives back staff travel, the strike is suspended today. Tomorrow, Unite ballots for additional action and we find ourselves back in this same position in six weeks time.
Walsh is in a difficult position. He needs to show who is boss or we will find ourselves facing strikes year in, year out. I've been flying for 6 years and I think there have almost been as many strike calls in the that time.
There have certainly been three.... Even those odds are pretty telling.
- I've just driven past the picket lines at Heahtrow next to the police station and opposite the Holiday Inn. They looked impressively busy. But I thought the limit was 12 people? Seemed a fair few more than that down there.
But how many are actually on strike and how many are, to use a term utilised to describe temporary working-up CSDs a few months back - 'Plastic' Pickets?
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I've always liked to hope/think that I could maintain a respectful opinion of Bassa but I have to admit that now, the longer this goes on and the more we hear from Msrs Simpson, Woodley and even Holley, I'm finding it more and more difficult not to just laugh off everything we're being told by Camp Bedfont.
I find myself on the verge of officially endorsing The PCCC!
I find myself on the verge of officially endorsing The PCCC!
Eddy
Walsh is in a difficult position. He needs to show who is boss or we will find ourselves facing strikes year in, year out. I've been flying for 6 years and I think there have almost been as many strike calls in the that time.
Well if the CEO does give on this:
(a) UNITE have only offered a suspension of the current action - presumably until they fail to get their way on the next issue on the negotiating table.
(b) In two years time or less we're back here again with another BASSA/UNITE threat of IA.
The CEO has to end this - soon.
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The CEO has to end this - soon.
a) BA management, rather than BASSA, run the operation and
b) there will be an end to the interminable strikes which - as Eddy says - have plagued BA for so long.
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Just been given my third European standover (2 night stay with one clear day off downroute) in three weeks.
Backing BA certainly pays!
I will of course feel guilty about all my poor fellow-crew earning nowt at the moment and standing earning s0d all at BFC
NOT!!!!!
Backing BA certainly pays!
I will of course feel guilty about all my poor fellow-crew earning nowt at the moment and standing earning s0d all at BFC
NOT!!!!!
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to DIXIE DEAN
Please, there is people on this forum who have been flying for 10-20-30 years.I can assure that competence is very much linked to experience, not how long it has been since you have done your SEP. I have flown with CSD that through years of experience helped me understand a lot in the last 6 years..I would have never known without them. Whether you have done SEP yesterday or the day before yest, please do not believe -not even for a second- to be better prepared for an emergency or else. I am completely shocked at your comment. When I joined six years ago,whether I had just done SEP or not I would have never dreamt of coming up with anything like that. If this is what all our VCC think ,then we are in trouble.
ps.I know you have used the word 'recent' not 'better prepared' but in the context it was put, it definetely sounded as if you think that makes you more competent.
Being a VCC and having just gone through the SEP training, I am a lot more recent than a CC who did they SEP refresher six months ago.
Dixie
Dixie
ps.I know you have used the word 'recent' not 'better prepared' but in the context it was put, it definetely sounded as if you think that makes you more competent.
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VCC are not experienced, full-stop
I too am worried by the assertion that VCC are "more recent than real crew". Crew who are truly experienced can react instinctively to situations and do not have to refer to training.
In an emergency it's that instinct and it's related fast reactions that save lives, not reading a procedure from a book last week!
I am backing BA and working myself but VCC need to be realistic and know their place!
In an emergency it's that instinct and it's related fast reactions that save lives, not reading a procedure from a book last week!
I am backing BA and working myself but VCC need to be realistic and know their place!
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to mark speed
I know,exactly.
I will tell you something I wanted to add to my previous post.
We were once hit by a lightning..we dropped and it all went dark for a bit.If it wasn't for the calm reaction and reassurance of the IN CHARGE CREW MEMBER on the day(who had experienced that before and knew exactly what was going on) I would have crumbled..it really was possibly the scarier thing that happened to me,and I will never forget lip reading his words.."It's a lightning"..
PS:I thought we had hit another aircraft..silly me!!
it was all foggy and dark..
I know,exactly.
I will tell you something I wanted to add to my previous post.
We were once hit by a lightning..we dropped and it all went dark for a bit.If it wasn't for the calm reaction and reassurance of the IN CHARGE CREW MEMBER on the day(who had experienced that before and knew exactly what was going on) I would have crumbled..it really was possibly the scarier thing that happened to me,and I will never forget lip reading his words.."It's a lightning"..
PS:I thought we had hit another aircraft..silly me!!
it was all foggy and dark..
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Is it really possible...
For the strikers to return to BA?
1) Militancy/disloyalty
2) Financial Damage caused (also long term re forward bookings)
3) Anger and Bitterness from BA staff
4) Further threats upon their return
5) If returned, bad feeling amongst colleagues working alongside.
Many Cabin Crew now speak of the better working enviroment without the moaning militants.
Now, what happened at Aer Lingus?????????
1) Militancy/disloyalty
2) Financial Damage caused (also long term re forward bookings)
3) Anger and Bitterness from BA staff
4) Further threats upon their return
5) If returned, bad feeling amongst colleagues working alongside.
Many Cabin Crew now speak of the better working enviroment without the moaning militants.
Now, what happened at Aer Lingus?????????
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VCC will not know what looks/sounds/smells/feels normal at all times and at all locations on an aircraft.
I've lost count of how many times over 20 years I have had to say to pilots "No, take this seriously, I have never heard/smelt/felt/seen that before" and it has turned out to be a real problem.
There is nothing you can read in a book that beats experience.
I've lost count of how many times over 20 years I have had to say to pilots "No, take this seriously, I have never heard/smelt/felt/seen that before" and it has turned out to be a real problem.
There is nothing you can read in a book that beats experience.
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to ranger 07
YES!MY ANSWER is YES..
We might be sent to the New fleet..I am not convinced by the NF but if we have to believe BA and our management which you do, they are offering a very attractive package..So,yes..We might all be moved across.I will try and go for a senior role..but am sure that there will be a lot more experienced and capable people than me onto it.
time will tell..
Is it really possible...
For the strikers to return to BA?
For the strikers to return to BA?
We might be sent to the New fleet
..I am not convinced by the NF but if we have to believe BA and our management which you do, they are offering a very attractive package..So,yes..We might all be moved across.I will try and go for a senior role..but am sure that there will be a lot more experienced and capable people than me onto it.time will tell..
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How have the strikes affected BA?
As most people know, it's difficult to get hard figures on how the strikes have affected BA, with both sides claiming greater or less damage (truth is the first casualty in a war).
However, this is what I've pieced together.
How many have gone on strike
BA claimed that on the first day of the March strikes, 57% of crew who were scheduled to work turned up. By the last day, the airline maintains it was 73%. After the first two strikes, BA said that 25% of cabin crew had lost their ST concession. As the number of CC is about 13,300, that means around 3,325 went on strike.
Last Wednesday, Willie Walsh said that 836 (or 75%) had reported for duty that day. So, that's about 25% of 1,114 who went didn't work, most of whom would have been strikers.
I'm inclined to believe BA's figures rather than those from Unite which paint a worse picture as BA cannot legally misinform the Stock Exchange.
So, there is an upward trend in attendance, which is what was expected in most industrial disputes as strikers get bored, need money, etc, and return to work. The number of strikers isn't as many as Unite would have you believe, but there is obviously a very significant minority of people who have been on strike or are going to strike.
Cancelled Flights
Although Unite has published figures on cancelled flights, BA has not. Indeed, it is hard to get accurate information on this subject as BA won't publish anything but the BBC reckoned on 25 May that about a third of BA's flights had been cancelled. Within that there were 197 cancelled short-haul flights (37%) and 29 cancelled long-haul (21%). These are flights from and to LHR.
However, BA is running wet-lease flights to eight European destinations, currently 16 rotations a day from T3. As these replace cancelled BA flights, it looks like BA actually cancelled about 42% of SH flights operated with its own metal.
However, for the next wave of strikes BA will increase LH flights from 60% to over 70% and SH flights from from 50% to over 55%. Pax numbers will rise from 60,000 to 65,000 a day. Furthermore, other pax are being rebooked onto over 50 other airlines who have given BA permission to do so.
So, BA is winning the battle to keep the airline flying, but the cancellations have been more damaging than BA would like you to believe and it's clearly not possible to continue this kind of operation forever.
However, this is what I've pieced together.
How many have gone on strike
BA claimed that on the first day of the March strikes, 57% of crew who were scheduled to work turned up. By the last day, the airline maintains it was 73%. After the first two strikes, BA said that 25% of cabin crew had lost their ST concession. As the number of CC is about 13,300, that means around 3,325 went on strike.
Last Wednesday, Willie Walsh said that 836 (or 75%) had reported for duty that day. So, that's about 25% of 1,114 who went didn't work, most of whom would have been strikers.
I'm inclined to believe BA's figures rather than those from Unite which paint a worse picture as BA cannot legally misinform the Stock Exchange.
So, there is an upward trend in attendance, which is what was expected in most industrial disputes as strikers get bored, need money, etc, and return to work. The number of strikers isn't as many as Unite would have you believe, but there is obviously a very significant minority of people who have been on strike or are going to strike.
Cancelled Flights
Although Unite has published figures on cancelled flights, BA has not. Indeed, it is hard to get accurate information on this subject as BA won't publish anything but the BBC reckoned on 25 May that about a third of BA's flights had been cancelled. Within that there were 197 cancelled short-haul flights (37%) and 29 cancelled long-haul (21%). These are flights from and to LHR.
However, BA is running wet-lease flights to eight European destinations, currently 16 rotations a day from T3. As these replace cancelled BA flights, it looks like BA actually cancelled about 42% of SH flights operated with its own metal.
However, for the next wave of strikes BA will increase LH flights from 60% to over 70% and SH flights from from 50% to over 55%. Pax numbers will rise from 60,000 to 65,000 a day. Furthermore, other pax are being rebooked onto over 50 other airlines who have given BA permission to do so.
So, BA is winning the battle to keep the airline flying, but the cancellations have been more damaging than BA would like you to believe and it's clearly not possible to continue this kind of operation forever.
Last edited by Caribbean Boy; 31st May 2010 at 09:31.
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Markspeed said
Well as a 20-year BA pilot and Captain, I can categorically state that I welcome and indeed actively encourage all such reports, and NEVER has it turned out to be a real problem when the cabin crew report something - often just a whistling seal at low level which quietens when the differential pressure is established.
Either Markspeed is extremely unlucky or I have been lucky or he is guilding the lily - I leave you to decide
I've lost count of how many times over 20 years I have had to say to pilots "No, take this seriously, I have never heard/smelt/felt/seen that before" and it has turned out to be a real problem.
Either Markspeed is extremely unlucky or I have been lucky or he is guilding the lily - I leave you to decide
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TopBunk - I have less than your 20 years experience but I have had a serious problem that the CC noticed first. Consider yourself lucky my friend but please don't dismiss CC input.
If you have that opinion you're probably going to give off those vibes when someone from the cabin calls to report something. If they go away with the feeling that you don't take them seriously are they likely to think highly or less highly of you?
Cabin crew are much more touchy feely / perceptive people than those of us on the dirty side of the locked door!
If you have that opinion you're probably going to give off those vibes when someone from the cabin calls to report something. If they go away with the feeling that you don't take them seriously are they likely to think highly or less highly of you?
Cabin crew are much more touchy feely / perceptive people than those of us on the dirty side of the locked door!
Last edited by demomonkey; 30th May 2010 at 19:21.