British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Down the airway.
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Ya gotta admire that little WW fella, gutsy and all.
I expect he reckons that many of the high time fliers and gold card fliers that BAA has lost to other carriers will be only to enthuiastic to return once the anarchical dictatorship of BASSA and UNITE is smashed. I expect that he is right on that score. Perhaps too there'll need to be some redundancies amongst those who have talked the propaganda and acted the agent provocateur to those whose mental acumen is a little inexperienced. Someone somewhere must have lost a computer?
I expect he reckons that many of the high time fliers and gold card fliers that BAA has lost to other carriers will be only to enthuiastic to return once the anarchical dictatorship of BASSA and UNITE is smashed. I expect that he is right on that score. Perhaps too there'll need to be some redundancies amongst those who have talked the propaganda and acted the agent provocateur to those whose mental acumen is a little inexperienced. Someone somewhere must have lost a computer?
Join Date: Oct 2009
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SlideBustle, wascrew and Strimmerdriver
No, they have not negotiated any of this - Crew members back, New Fleet off and transfers between LGW and LHR are BASSA's demands and Nigel said these things are essential to a deal.
No, they have not negotiated any of this - Crew members back, New Fleet off and transfers between LGW and LHR are BASSA's demands and Nigel said these things are essential to a deal.
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And the chances of BA doing that are absolutely nil - unless they are about to announce a 20% pay cut.
Or maybe they want to COMPLETELY shaft new joiners to feather their nest
Or maybe they want to COMPLETELY shaft new joiners to feather their nest
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Look at the proposal which was presented in October, 2009.
There is no cut in payments - BA is only asking crew to work a BIT harder on aircraft which carries less passengers than years ago - and not like with over 400 passengers as suggested by CSD Richard on Radio 5 Live.
Fixed Montly Travel Payment seems like good deal and I would happily accept it. Main Crew on WW would in average get their £674 PLUS meal allowances. Some crew suggesting they would be worse off with MTP but think about this - if you are getting 1 LR trip, 1 DES trip and 2 "regular" trips, would you get over £674? No - on top of that you also get meal allowances! I understand confusion amongst some crew - especially crew who don't know how to read their payslip properly or even know how much of their meal allowances are taxable.
WW CSD in average would get £806 per month - I can understand if Miss Malone and her brigade would be worse off if they are getting favours done from contacts in scheduling.
444 WW PSR applying to work up as Temporary CSD - there's another example of crew going out of their agreements and not listening to their union for their own sake as it was never agreed by BASSA.
There is no cut in payments - BA is only asking crew to work a BIT harder on aircraft which carries less passengers than years ago - and not like with over 400 passengers as suggested by CSD Richard on Radio 5 Live.
Fixed Montly Travel Payment seems like good deal and I would happily accept it. Main Crew on WW would in average get their £674 PLUS meal allowances. Some crew suggesting they would be worse off with MTP but think about this - if you are getting 1 LR trip, 1 DES trip and 2 "regular" trips, would you get over £674? No - on top of that you also get meal allowances! I understand confusion amongst some crew - especially crew who don't know how to read their payslip properly or even know how much of their meal allowances are taxable.
WW CSD in average would get £806 per month - I can understand if Miss Malone and her brigade would be worse off if they are getting favours done from contacts in scheduling.
444 WW PSR applying to work up as Temporary CSD - there's another example of crew going out of their agreements and not listening to their union for their own sake as it was never agreed by BASSA.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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If a deal can be agreed then that's no bad thing for passengers and staff, but the company has to be able to draw a line under all of this in order to restore confidence in the airline. After the last minute deal before the 2007 strike there were promises on both sides of a new way forward on industrial relations and look what's happened since.
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I flew in to DMIA today (the former Clark Airforce Base) over the Air Force cemetery. There are a few thousand neatly arranged, small gravestones marking the graves of Philippino and American serviceman that gave their lives in various conflicts from there.
To read that these spineless BASSA despots don't have the bottle to call a strike because they know they have no *real* support other than ticks in boxes, and remembering their gross insult with the pathetic Iwo Jima copy, I hope that BA now finish off the job.
I really like the idea of giving a flat rate to all crew - because the people that will lose money are the BASSA reps and their mates who've been coining it for years at the expense of the very colleagues they falsely claim to represent.
Come on Willie, go the distance.
To read that these spineless BASSA despots don't have the bottle to call a strike because they know they have no *real* support other than ticks in boxes, and remembering their gross insult with the pathetic Iwo Jima copy, I hope that BA now finish off the job.
I really like the idea of giving a flat rate to all crew - because the people that will lose money are the BASSA reps and their mates who've been coining it for years at the expense of the very colleagues they falsely claim to represent.
Come on Willie, go the distance.
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Reinstatement of crew
There is zero chance of this happening. Here are some quotes from the judgement against Unite.
And:
Several authorities are cited, principally Sharp v. Harrison (1922) 1 Ch 502. Here the disparity in terms of convenience is quite overwhelming. The effectively unchallenged evidence of Ms Mussenden and Ms Karen Slinger (the person in charge of cabin crew resource planning) identified a quite exceptional burden faced by BA in terms of cost, planning and reorganisation in the event of a permanent injunction, sufficient indeed to jeopardise prospects of financial recovery. I turn to this Claimant. I give weight to all that she opined in her statement of the 2nd November 2007. Without belittling any of it (albeit noting that this was before the actual change) it does not begin to offer anything significantly impacting on the balance of convenience.
Again, the post 16 November changes have been operative now for nearly three months. Granted that it is conceded that this state of affairs does not give rise to any contractual point to be taken by BA, it does mitigate strongly against present use of the Court's discretionary powers to restore the status anté quo.
Again, the post 16 November changes have been operative now for nearly three months. Granted that it is conceded that this state of affairs does not give rise to any contractual point to be taken by BA, it does mitigate strongly against present use of the Court's discretionary powers to restore the status anté quo.
I turn to the second limb: the changes themselves. I have already accepted evidence that they can on occasion make it difficult to deliver the "product" thereby inducing stress and strain; similarly I accept that in the event of an untoward event in the course of a flight the cabin crew can become significantly shorthanded. All that said, I cannot regard the 6th October changes as drastic or extreme and outwith the parameters of "reasonable". The crew complements remain significantly above the FAA minimum, the flights demonstrably can continue and to the extent that there is an aligning of LGW and LHR levels it is difficult to raise substantial objections. But, more importantly all such has to be judged not in a vacuum but in the light of the financial situation: if the new complements materially and fairly contribute to the preservation of BA and more importantly for present purposes job security and pay, how can I condemn the less than extreme changes as unreasonable?
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Now their bluff is being called and they are having to follow through on their threats, they insist on negotiating!
How contrary.
WW will now press the advantage.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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I also forgot to add that forward bookings have dropped by almost 20% due to the threat of strike.
And what about their promise about not striking over Easter? It's getting closer and closer.
Go on strike - why did they not negotiate?
Negotiate - why haven't they called a strike?
Consistent in inconsistency.
Negotiate - why haven't they called a strike?
Consistent in inconsistency.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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And what about their promise about not striking over Easter? It's getting closer and closer.
There isn't going to be any strike. If BASSA thought they could mount a convincing, solid strike they would have called one today. They are not however completely stupid; they know as well as we do that only 63% of the BASSA membership voted to strike and that the other 37%, together with the non members and the volunteers could crew quite a good proportion of the operation.
Their only option now is to try and keep BA guessing as to the dates of this supposed strike while they desperately try to find a way to save face.
If you've ever played chess, its a bit like a few moves before check mate. The game isn't quite technically won, but its obvious how the game is going to end up and any decent loser would, at this stage, topple their king to signify defeat.
Join Date: Feb 2010
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An extract from BASSAs official report of todays meeting:
I suspect that much has been revealed about the BASSA reps mindset in the above quote. Substitute 'BASSA reps' for 'Willie Walsh'. I don't recall Walsh focussing on the BASSA reps at any stage of the negotiations, whereas BASSA have insist on making the entire debate about Walsh whilst ignoring the prevailing economic conditions. Barking mad.
REPORT BACK FROM TODAY’S BRANCH
Feb 25th, 2010 by admin
At another Branch meeting at Kempton Park, with over 1000 in attendance, there was an upbeat mood in the light of yet another marvellous ballot result. Indeed, it was said that this result was probably more satisfying as the “Yes” vote last time probably had a gung-ho protest element to it, whereas on this occasion, 81% were still prepared to take action, despite the bullying and intimidation.
The feeling from the floor was that Willie Walsh was now completely out of control and his personalisation of this dispute was making any “deal” that much harder to achieve.
Feb 25th, 2010 by admin
At another Branch meeting at Kempton Park, with over 1000 in attendance, there was an upbeat mood in the light of yet another marvellous ballot result. Indeed, it was said that this result was probably more satisfying as the “Yes” vote last time probably had a gung-ho protest element to it, whereas on this occasion, 81% were still prepared to take action, despite the bullying and intimidation.
The feeling from the floor was that Willie Walsh was now completely out of control and his personalisation of this dispute was making any “deal” that much harder to achieve.
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Indeed, they really do live on another planet.
Oh, and how can "the feeling from the floor" portray such a complex concept?
Please can someone post that picture of Comical Ali with him now saying, "Wille Walsh is now completely out of control"?
Oh, and how can "the feeling from the floor" portray such a complex concept?
Please can someone post that picture of Comical Ali with him now saying, "Wille Walsh is now completely out of control"?
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The General Situation Overview
I fly BA reguarly, and I must say they are by far the best airline in the world. End of. They are amazing.
It does seem that its more of a misunderstanding here, and the crews need to accept that changes need to be made in order to allow the airline to continue in operations.
Saying this, Management need to be aware that they have to communicate fully with crew members and employees and try to ensure they reach the solution they seek without getting peoples backs up, BA management is superb, but they need to make sure they communicate with the crews !!!!!!!!
It does seem that its more of a misunderstanding here, and the crews need to accept that changes need to be made in order to allow the airline to continue in operations.
Saying this, Management need to be aware that they have to communicate fully with crew members and employees and try to ensure they reach the solution they seek without getting peoples backs up, BA management is superb, but they need to make sure they communicate with the crews !!!!!!!!
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"I have always taken the view that if you're not at the table you're likely to be on the menu"
very apt, and sums up quite nicely where BASSA have been for the last year - ie part of the problem, rather than part of any solution.
Well, in my view, trying to join the table when the participants have already enjoyed desert and the port/cigars is a touch late, and likely to have you viewed as outsiders.