British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Eddy,
I'm not sure you're right about Virgin cash allowances not being taxed, I'm pretty sure they are.
Interesting that you're fed up hearing about pay, and worried about not losing yours; the last two offers BA made (and most of them I seem to remember) don't reduce your pay at all, and protect it into the future, with pay increases scheduled into them. This is in stark contrast to many other staff areas in BA who have both agreed to work harder AND taken significant pay reductions.
Anyone who feels Unite have represented them well must be bonkers!
I'm not sure you're right about Virgin cash allowances not being taxed, I'm pretty sure they are.
Interesting that you're fed up hearing about pay, and worried about not losing yours; the last two offers BA made (and most of them I seem to remember) don't reduce your pay at all, and protect it into the future, with pay increases scheduled into them. This is in stark contrast to many other staff areas in BA who have both agreed to work harder AND taken significant pay reductions.
Anyone who feels Unite have represented them well must be bonkers!
Join Date: Nov 2009
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What's the problem?
For me one of the main concerns about all this is that as I see it our company are trying to look after our future and bending over backwards to maintain pay and keep the future bright in a changing world. (Let's face it they could have just made people compulsory redundant or served a notice of contract change).
Outside looking in (the public), understand that, many have been through redundancy and contract changes.
In my opinion, we ARE being fairly treated.
The question is:
Why do some find that so hard to understand?
Stelton.
Great news about crew turning up.
Outside looking in (the public), understand that, many have been through redundancy and contract changes.
In my opinion, we ARE being fairly treated.
The question is:
Why do some find that so hard to understand?
Stelton.
Great news about crew turning up.
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Eddy
My basic salary, after almost 7 years of service, is just over £14k a year.
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Please Eddy..
Eddy,
can you be REALLY honest and not just quote your basic or indeed your last years P60..
Add up 12 months of payslips BEFORE deductions and then post on here, because that takes into account all of the extras we in BA get paid and I can assure you it is relevant as I went through a divorce and the law is interested in those figures nothing else...!!!
Can you accept the challenge honestly..??
can you be REALLY honest and not just quote your basic or indeed your last years P60..
Add up 12 months of payslips BEFORE deductions and then post on here, because that takes into account all of the extras we in BA get paid and I can assure you it is relevant as I went through a divorce and the law is interested in those figures nothing else...!!!
Can you accept the challenge honestly..??
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SLF, but I have been involved in industrial disputes from both sides of the desk.
Most industrial disputes are ritualised, and bear the same resemblance to a real strike as the Hakka at the beginning of an All Blacks game goes to a real war. There is a close relationship between the HR department and the union negotiators, and both have a lot to lose if things escalate: the union negotiator is expected to deliver results to his members, and the HR director is supposed to maintain peace and productivity. They spend a lot of time together, and are essentially enacting a rehearsed performance to make the membership and the senior management believe that a tough negotiation has taken place when in fact the outcome is pretty much predetermined. Strikes, works to rule and the like are in fact just ritual, in the way few believe in literal transubstantiation these days.
However, sometimes it goes wrong, and turns into a real industrial dispute, in which the two sides genuinely disagree and genuinely are in conflict. Management know that losing will mean ceding control of the company to the union, so have a lot of skin in the game, and governments of both political hues know that (for a high-profile dispute) a victory by the union is electoral suicide. Under those circumstances (cf. the miner's strike) management will make extensive preparations, will have a solid plan for success, and will be prepared to fight a tough fight to win. After they win, and they almost inevitably will, they will have the need and the mandate to salt the fields.
Unions, unfortunately, think that the NUM fought a victory in the 1980s and that marching on Moscow in winter is a sensible military strategy. This will end in victory for BA, in fairly short order, and a trail of tears (allusion intended) for the crew that struck. Any other outcome is to ignore history.
Most industrial disputes are ritualised, and bear the same resemblance to a real strike as the Hakka at the beginning of an All Blacks game goes to a real war. There is a close relationship between the HR department and the union negotiators, and both have a lot to lose if things escalate: the union negotiator is expected to deliver results to his members, and the HR director is supposed to maintain peace and productivity. They spend a lot of time together, and are essentially enacting a rehearsed performance to make the membership and the senior management believe that a tough negotiation has taken place when in fact the outcome is pretty much predetermined. Strikes, works to rule and the like are in fact just ritual, in the way few believe in literal transubstantiation these days.
However, sometimes it goes wrong, and turns into a real industrial dispute, in which the two sides genuinely disagree and genuinely are in conflict. Management know that losing will mean ceding control of the company to the union, so have a lot of skin in the game, and governments of both political hues know that (for a high-profile dispute) a victory by the union is electoral suicide. Under those circumstances (cf. the miner's strike) management will make extensive preparations, will have a solid plan for success, and will be prepared to fight a tough fight to win. After they win, and they almost inevitably will, they will have the need and the mandate to salt the fields.
Unions, unfortunately, think that the NUM fought a victory in the 1980s and that marching on Moscow in winter is a sensible military strategy. This will end in victory for BA, in fairly short order, and a trail of tears (allusion intended) for the crew that struck. Any other outcome is to ignore history.
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Folks,
Does it really matter exactly how much Eddy earns, it's a one person snapshot of what is known to be a broad spectrum of pay scales, and a fairly private matter. What matters is that BA don't want to take any of it away. Unite do, but not BA!
Glad there seem to be a lot of CC who have looked carefully for evidence of what is going on, and don't feel well enough represented to back the union.
Does it really matter exactly how much Eddy earns, it's a one person snapshot of what is known to be a broad spectrum of pay scales, and a fairly private matter. What matters is that BA don't want to take any of it away. Unite do, but not BA!
Glad there seem to be a lot of CC who have looked carefully for evidence of what is going on, and don't feel well enough represented to back the union.
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Eddy
Nearly all Long Haul flights are operating normally, but most of the B744 and B763 have just pilots and freight. So it depends where you look. On ba.com they are cancelled. In FICO they are operating.
Curiously, there are a number of flights showing on BA.com as "cancelled" while they show on HeathrowAirport.com as "scheduled". Could these be empty planes doing positioning sectors ?
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Swedish Steve (or anyone else who knows): can I ask why are they operating empty 744s / 767s with only pilots and freight? Are these just freight flights or are the pilots positioning the aircraft?
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Read this and take note
Good Morning
Here are the ROE now that the strike is in progress.
Here are the ROE now that the strike is in progress.
- This thread is intended primarily for Cabin Crew - This is the Cabin Crew Forum
- If you are a passenger or shareholder or simply an interested bystander who wishes to rant, or provide us all with your fascinating insights into the state of BASSA/Management/Britain please use the Pax/SLF forum where a thread exists specifically for this purpose.
- New posts should be focussed on news, or (God help us) facts or stuff that relates to events.
- Posts that do not comply will be deleted. Moderators will be active with thread-bans, forum bans and whatever it may take to keep this thread readable, germane and interesting. Those of you in love with sound of your own keyboards should think carefully before posting.
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EDDY
FYI Virgin do not get paid cash in hand anymore, and they are taxed on their allownaces!! I also never started on a basic on £14000!!! Ive since left but I do know their basic is alot less than you are stating!
Virgin is well known for being one of the lowest paid in the industry so to suggest that they get more than BA cc is incorrect!!
Ive worked for both and found the pay and allowances at BA absolutely UNBELIEVABLE!! How can it be justified for BA to pay crew over £1000 for a NRT OR SIN when the equivalent trip to HKG with VS pays around £220!!! Not to mention the days off that you then get for a SIN!!!!
Its time for change im afraid and BA cc need to be brought in line with others...................................................
FYI Virgin do not get paid cash in hand anymore, and they are taxed on their allownaces!! I also never started on a basic on £14000!!! Ive since left but I do know their basic is alot less than you are stating!
Virgin is well known for being one of the lowest paid in the industry so to suggest that they get more than BA cc is incorrect!!
Ive worked for both and found the pay and allowances at BA absolutely UNBELIEVABLE!! How can it be justified for BA to pay crew over £1000 for a NRT OR SIN when the equivalent trip to HKG with VS pays around £220!!! Not to mention the days off that you then get for a SIN!!!!
Its time for change im afraid and BA cc need to be brought in line with others...................................................
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Nicholas49 and others
Some flights (mainly 747s) will be operating as freighters for a number of reasons.
1. There is not enough parking space at LHR
2. Combine this with the fact that the crew down route don't strike until they arrive home, it means that a full traffic load can be lifted out of the likes of LAX, SFO etc. because the crew have been told to work as normal from outside of base.
3. Freight pays very well on its own
4. Flights are leaving empty of Pax but with as many crew the company can cobble together from those Cabin Crew that turn up this morning, so as they can operate flights back home on Monday/Tuesday etc.
I have just been called by a friend to say that her Jumbo is going with 12 crew on it but empty today so they can operate home on tuesday
Hope that helps.
1. There is not enough parking space at LHR
2. Combine this with the fact that the crew down route don't strike until they arrive home, it means that a full traffic load can be lifted out of the likes of LAX, SFO etc. because the crew have been told to work as normal from outside of base.
3. Freight pays very well on its own
4. Flights are leaving empty of Pax but with as many crew the company can cobble together from those Cabin Crew that turn up this morning, so as they can operate flights back home on Monday/Tuesday etc.
I have just been called by a friend to say that her Jumbo is going with 12 crew on it but empty today so they can operate home on tuesday
Hope that helps.
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Latest from the Brain Trust
A Call to Arms
Today's turnout at Sandown was simply stunning with 1500 members there showing unequivocal unanimous support for industrial action which will now
commence at midnight tonight.
There were many who spoke of their fear but all said they were absolutely
determined to stand up for their rights. Many approached the reps
afterwards to say just being part of such a large united meeting gave them
strength and the courage to hold firm.
Many admitted that hearing of the support throughout the world also was
very comforting and uplifting.
It was pointed out that we have now carried out a legal and democratic
election and whatever way members voted now is the time to support the
majority decision of their union.
Because of the intransigence of Willie Walsh we now have to exercise our
basic human right of withdrawing our labour - there simply is no other
choice.
BASSA/UNITE now call on you all to stand up and be counted. Support your
colleagues, support your reps and most of all support yourself and your
family. Please do not turn up for work over the next 3 days. Those who
crossed the picket line way back in 1997 took a long time to forgive
themselves. We know it will not be easy for you are all conscientious hard
working non-militant people but enough is now enough.
Many of you have expressed disbelief at how this country now seems to have
turned its back on the little man and how the words and actions of the
government have proved that corporate greed is the new mantra. Tomorrow
will be a perfect opportunity to show the watching world that BA cabin
crew will not be pushed around or bullied and that they are making a proud
stand with integrity.
"Cometh the hour cometh the man (or woman)"
Staff Travel Threat
We are acutely aware of your understandable concerns surrounding the
threats made to your staff travel.
This has been done for no other reason than to intimidate you and frighten
you, our ballot and industrial action are legal and the right to withdraw
your labour legally is a fundamental human right
Therefore this threat to withdraw your staff travel is not acceptable to
this union. Any industrial action, sooner or later always ends in a
solution, part of this solution must include the subject of staff travel.
Today's turnout at Sandown was simply stunning with 1500 members there showing unequivocal unanimous support for industrial action which will now
commence at midnight tonight.
There were many who spoke of their fear but all said they were absolutely
determined to stand up for their rights. Many approached the reps
afterwards to say just being part of such a large united meeting gave them
strength and the courage to hold firm.
Many admitted that hearing of the support throughout the world also was
very comforting and uplifting.
It was pointed out that we have now carried out a legal and democratic
election and whatever way members voted now is the time to support the
majority decision of their union.
Because of the intransigence of Willie Walsh we now have to exercise our
basic human right of withdrawing our labour - there simply is no other
choice.
BASSA/UNITE now call on you all to stand up and be counted. Support your
colleagues, support your reps and most of all support yourself and your
family. Please do not turn up for work over the next 3 days. Those who
crossed the picket line way back in 1997 took a long time to forgive
themselves. We know it will not be easy for you are all conscientious hard
working non-militant people but enough is now enough.
Many of you have expressed disbelief at how this country now seems to have
turned its back on the little man and how the words and actions of the
government have proved that corporate greed is the new mantra. Tomorrow
will be a perfect opportunity to show the watching world that BA cabin
crew will not be pushed around or bullied and that they are making a proud
stand with integrity.
"Cometh the hour cometh the man (or woman)"
Staff Travel Threat
We are acutely aware of your understandable concerns surrounding the
threats made to your staff travel.
This has been done for no other reason than to intimidate you and frighten
you, our ballot and industrial action are legal and the right to withdraw
your labour legally is a fundamental human right
Therefore this threat to withdraw your staff travel is not acceptable to
this union. Any industrial action, sooner or later always ends in a
solution, part of this solution must include the subject of staff travel.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Reporting For Duty
One of the founder members of the Professional Cabin Crew Council has just sent this report about their journey into work - CRC at T5.
There is a picket near the Crooked Billet (Staines). A few extra police cars on perimeter road. No pickets at all around the car park or on Perimeter Road. Tight security in the car park - just asked to show ID. Car park has netting screens around it.
He thought he may be the only one there but there was about 8 or 9 cabin crew in uniform waiting in the car park for a bus to T5 reporting for duty!!!
We have, fortunately, got staggered report times today so we will report throughout the day - and try and update the website. When you no longer hear from us, we will be at 35000 feet!!
Well done to all those crew who have the common sense to report for duty.
There is a picket near the Crooked Billet (Staines). A few extra police cars on perimeter road. No pickets at all around the car park or on Perimeter Road. Tight security in the car park - just asked to show ID. Car park has netting screens around it.
He thought he may be the only one there but there was about 8 or 9 cabin crew in uniform waiting in the car park for a bus to T5 reporting for duty!!!
We have, fortunately, got staggered report times today so we will report throughout the day - and try and update the website. When you no longer hear from us, we will be at 35000 feet!!
Well done to all those crew who have the common sense to report for duty.
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Departures
The first 2 Longhaul departures were JFK & TLV - both went freight-only.
Next two departures, AUH & MAA, have passengers. Both are 777, & current ETD is 20mins behind sched.
Next two departures, AUH & MAA, have passengers. Both are 777, & current ETD is 20mins behind sched.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by toro
Can you accept the challenge honestly..??
I eat well while I'm away in hotel or external restaurants (as is the intended nature of our allowances - to enable one to have a meal IN THE HOTEL to remove the need to leave the property) and I spend a lot. That's why I was angry about the HMRC investigation - because some people didn't undertake the task as well as they could have done and it means people like me will be taxed on money I do, actually, spend.
So again, yeah, I'd be delighted to post my earnings (I'll give you six months if you really want it - as one lump figure, not individual months) but it won't prove the point you want it to prove.
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As of 8pm last night, 32 worldwide crew had called in sick on 19th.
I doubt that could have spiked to 3000 by this morn.
BASSA reps will be treated as strikers - they negotiated on behalf of cc and so are considered to have stated their intentions when they rejected the offer.
I doubt that could have spiked to 3000 by this morn.
BASSA reps will be treated as strikers - they negotiated on behalf of cc and so are considered to have stated their intentions when they rejected the offer.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by wascrew
Eddy
No need to post your earnings here.
Would it be relevant anyway?
No need to post your earnings here.
Would it be relevant anyway?
No - it's nobody's business, so why the press keep harping on about it is beyond me.
And no, it's not an issue. I like BA's proposal and would sign up to it tomorrow. But Bassa has said "no" to it, so my hands are somewhat tied.
What worries me a litle is that a friend of mine said the other week "those of us who go on strike should be the only ones who benefit from what we win from BA" and she added that "those who work should be forced to go on the worse contract that BA offers".
I wonder if her opinion would be the same if someone who is working said "I'm signing up to BA's offer of last week - which was pretty good - and you lot can go on strike and then take whatever duff offer BA makes after the strike".
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I think your reliable source is pulling your leg......
Mods: relevant to the thread....are crew being led over the cliff by people who aren't really standing with them?